Will Mauricio Pochettino ACTUALLY Coach the USMNT in 2030? with Herc Gomez

Summary

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Men In Blazers: Will Mauricio Pochettino ACTUALLY Coach the USMNT in 2030? (with Herc Gomez)

Date: August 4, 2026
Host: Roger Bennett
Guest: Herculez (Herc) Gomez

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the emotionally complex and pivotal decision for US Soccer to re-sign Mauricio Pochettino as the US Men’s National Team (USMNT) manager through 2030, following a divisive home World Cup. Roger Bennett and Herc Gomez break down the implications, risks, and cultural challenges underpinning this bold yet uncertain move. They debate whether Pochettino will even make it to the next World Cup, what progress really means for the USMNT, and where U.S. Soccer goes from here.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Pochettino Re-Appointment: Optimism vs. Skepticism

• Chance Poch Actually Coaches USMNT in 2030

  • Herculez Gomez assigns a mere 9% chance Poch will still be manager come 2030:
    "If I were a betting man, I would hammer the ‘no’ on the 2030 will Mauricio Pochettino be there for the World Cup prop bet. I don't see it happening." (04:07, Herculez Gomez)
  • Cites potential European club overtures and historical USSF instability.

• US Soccer’s Position

  • Roger questions whether USSF is simply "saddling up" out of convenience rather than implementing a grand vision:
    "It’s almost as if both sides have agreed to saddle up in the style of possession becomes 9/10th of the law." (08:36, Roger Bennett)
  • The organization’s leadership vacuum following Matt Crocker’s departure adds uncertainty.

• Fanbase Reaction

  • Mixed emotions: "Excited by the swaggy, country roads-inflected first two games of the World Cup," but also, "Why are we giving a second chance after another round of 16 bounce?" (01:58, Roger Bennett)

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2. Evaluating Pochettino’s U.S. Tenure So Far

• Early Success Tempered by Underachievement

  • Pochettino was the first USMNT manager to win back-to-back World Cup games in 96 years.
  • But elimination in the round of 16, ten consecutive friendly losses to European opposition, and zero trophies (Nations League or Gold Cup) sting.

• Culture Change

  • Herc credits Poch for revamping a "privileged, overindulgence" team culture:
    “He wanted to stretch not only a cultural change within the team... but within U.S. soccer in general, within the population." (10:21, Herculez Gomez)
  • However, notes that in “proper footballing cultures,” a similar record would’ve led to dismissal.

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3. Can US Soccer Ever Get its ‘Second Cycle’ Right?

• Second Cycle Curses

  • Roger recalls that Arena, Bradley, Klinsmann, and Berhalter all struggled mightily in their second cycles.
  • "Second cycles are normally given after a real sense of progress has been shown," he says, but questions whether that’s true here. (12:52, Roger Bennett)

• Necessity for Vision and Stability

  • Herc is blunt:
    "This should be a Pochettino 2030 all the way. And that’s all we should be hearing. I don’t want to hear about release clauses or buyout clauses. Raj, how much more money does U.S. Soccer need?" (16:04, Herculez Gomez)

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4. Is There Really a Better Alternative?

• Dueling Who-Could-It-Be Arguments

  • Roger: "Is there anyone better?" (23:16)
  • Herc offers Pellegrino Matarazzo as a compelling, realistic, long-term option, in contrast with temporary or superficial foreign hires:
    "He knows the American athlete...has fresh ideas that could be of worth." (23:16, Herculez Gomez)

• International Football is Not Club Football

  • Roger emphasizes that the current trend is toward pragmatic managers with federation experience:
    "International football is a strange beast...Scaloni won the last World Cup as Argentina manager. Luis de la Fuente won this World Cup as Spain manager." (25:51, Roger Bennett)

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5. The Poch Contract: Power, Passion, and Presence

• Commitment in Question

  • Both believe Pochettino has flirted with returning to club football, signaling diminished full commitment.
  • Roger:
    “He’s got to attack this role with a passion and intensity. We need Poch to speak with some clarity about why he’s staying and what he’s building with some detail.” (31:16, Roger Bennett)

• Cultural Outreach Missed

  • Missed opportunities cited in engaging both the U.S. media and the vast, football-mad Spanish-speaking audience.

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6. The Dual National Recruitment Dilemma

• Poch's Attitude: Problematic?

  • Pochettino previously said,
    “We don’t need to convince players. If a player needs to want to play for the national team…” (36:05, Roger Bennett, quoting Pochettino)
  • Roger and Herc say recruitment is essential; every successful national program (France, Morocco) lives and dies by it.

• Herc:
  "The US Men's national does not have the luxury of turning its back to recruitment when it comes to dual nationals… You have to embrace that." (38:04, Herculez Gomez)

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7. Structural Weaknesses and Need for Vision

• Leadership and Planning Lapses

  • Roger, reading a 10-year-old tweet about the need for a technical director, laments US Soccer’s lack of visionary leadership—problems unchanged for a decade:
    "Now, with a sporting director, you can't be CEO and make sporting decisions. There has to be somebody specialized for this decision.” (40:05–41:07, Herculez Gomez)

• Call for Accountability

  • “Accountability…is just a symbol of a rise of people caring. We all want that. You can’t pick and choose when you want people to care.” (41:07, Roger Bennett)

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8. Quickfire Segments: Who “Wins” and Who “Loses” with Poch’s Return?

Good News:

• Alex Freeman: "That's a direct Pochettino find." (42:09, Herculez Gomez)
• Malik Tillman: "One of the best midfielders...in this World Cup per 90 minutes played." (42:09)
• Folarin Balogun: "He really took a step forward with Marisa Pochettino." (42:09)

Bad News:

• Diego Luna: Off-field issues, rumors of switching allegiances, and loss of fitness/form. (44:05, Herculez Gomez)
• Yunus Musah: Overlooked as others emerge, club issues at Milan. (44:49)
• Dual Nationals: “You’re going to lose out…because you feel they should already be all in...It’s not the world we live in today.” (45:47)

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9. Christian Pulisic’s Murky Future

• Poch "probably views him as his best player…who’s untrustworthy when it comes to being on the field physically. And maybe there’s some mentality to that as well." (46:13, Herculez Gomez)
• Herc speculates Pulisic may have grown weary of the USMNT pressure and narrative.

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10. Predicting Tournament Outcomes

| Tournament | Prediction | Rationale | |-----------------------|-----------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | Gold Cup | No win | U.S. hasn't prioritized it recently. (49:02, Herculez Gomez)| | Nations League | Yes, but tough | Canada and Mexico rising. (49:12) | | 2028 Copa America | Quarterfinals “at minimum” | Intense competition awaits. (49:29) | | 2030 World Cup | “Quarterfinals or better would be a surprise” | Generation change brings heartache but hope. (50:00) |

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On US Soccer’s Priorities:
  "If you allow this [club escape] clause to exist, you’re prioritizing the financial over the sporting." – Herculez Gomez (07:16)

• On the Myth of the Transformative Foreign Coach:
  "There’s an inferiority complex amongst Americans…They think they need this foreign coach to come save American soccer…" – Herculez Gomez (28:14)

• On Dual National Recruitment:
  "The United States of America is a soccer country. It's not a U.S. Men's National Team country...You need to convert those people. You need to recruit those players." – Herculez Gomez (38:04)

• On Accountability:
  "Accountability… At the end of the day, it's just a symbol of a rise of people caring. We all want that." – Roger Bennett (41:07)

• On Vision and Leadership:
  "You can't be CEO and make sporting decisions. There has to be somebody specialized…If you're leaving business people to start out sporting structure, you're in trouble." – Herculez Gomez (41:07)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:07] Pochettino’s Long-Term Chances (Herc’s 9% estimate)
• [06:47] Motivation behind Pochettino’s commitment questioned
• [10:21] Cultural Changes Under Pochettino
• [12:52] The hazards of “Second Cycles”
• [23:16] Who could be better than Pochettino? (Pellegrino Matarazzo shout)
• [36:05] The dual national approach debate
• [42:09] Quickfire: "Winners" from Poch's contract
• [44:05] Quickfire: "Losers" from Poch's contract
• [46:13] Christian Pulisic’s uncertain role
• [49:02] Predicting Gold Cup and Nations League
• [50:00] Predicting the 2030 World Cup

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Final Thoughts

Roger and Herc end on a note of weary hope: U.S. Soccer is at a crossroads, needing a clear vision, bold recruitment, committed leadership, and—crucially—a plan for ensuring that USMNT progresses instead of repeating self-inflicted cycles of hope and heartbreak.

"We need a vision, like, an articulate vision, an intelligent vision, a vision that we can all understand and measure against." (41:07, Roger Bennett)

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Summary prepared for those who haven’t listened: this episode provides a sharp, witty, and sobering look at the state of US Soccer post-2026, through the lens of its most high-profile managerial gamble yet.

Transcript

[Roger Bennett]

We are delighted to bring you the Men in Blazers City Guides presented by Visa, a joyously assembled guide to the best places to eat, drink and explore and watch the beautiful game across the country. It's a guide aimed at helping fans experience the city as a local. It's built by you, our listeners, recommending some of the best small businesses in your communities, like the finest Viet Cajun in Houston. Yes. The best burrito in San Francisco. Yes. Yes. Where to save a lemon pepper wet in Atlanta. Yes. Yes. Yes. A massive shout out to our sponsor Visa, who's made this guide possible. Visa gives local business owners the tools and support to be ready for moments exactly like this one. Welcoming you to enjoy the Games this summer. Start planning your [e-mail] CityGuides there's nothing

[Herculez Gomez]

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[Roger Bennett]

You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network Suboptimal Radio.

[Herculez Gomez]

I wouldn't put a coach in place who I didn't think was going to be there at the end. Too much time has gone by and that's a problem.

[Roger Bennett]

Mauricio Pochettino is back as US manager. The Argentinian with an obsession for Kurt Russell, hyped speeches in the movie Miracle and the unique taste in Dictator Cool sideline Garb has just announced he's re signed a contract until 2030 and responses have been fascinating. It's emotionally complex. A lot of new fans excited by the swaggy country roads inflected first two games of the World Cup. Oh Malik Tillman bangers in their imagination are very excited. There's also a lot of why, when we went out at the round of 16 again, why are we giving a second chance? Even plenty of at least it's not a player's dad again. That's a real comment on our Instagram. And also oh yeah, well there's no one else out there which kind of tells us where we really are in these moments. The emotional often outstrips irrational. That's what football empowers. So this show is going to touch on both to break down this moment. It's a joy to welcome back a gentleman who tells it like it is. Former U.S. men's National Team striker Turn the SPM pundit host of Jewel Nats on Vamos on the Men in Blazers media Network, it's Mr. Herc Gomez.

[Herculez Gomez]

Raj, what's going on brother? How you doing? Good to see you.

[Roger Bennett]

It's great to see you. Fresh back from vacation. Very kind of U.S. soccer to hold the news for your first day back, but the Guardian is reporting not only is Poch back, but he will have a raise on top of the $6 million per year he earned under his previous deal with the U.S. soccer Federation, already largest outlay ever for a U.S. head coach. There was language in the press release. He'll also now Advise and support U.S. soccer on the broader development of the full national team pathway, youth soccer coaching education, professional league collaboration and other technical facets across the soccer community. We'll have to wait to understand exactly what that means, but first question first. Poch signed on until 2030 aka the next World cup cycle. US Soccer tweeted out the news with a bold committed to our future. The big question is for how long? What percentage chance do you think that when the US Men's National Team kick off World Cup 2030, Poch is actually still our manager?

[Herculez Gomez]

I would give it a 9% chance that actually happens. I am not very optimistic. Listen, I said it earlier to you and I'll say it again so the public knows. If I were a betting man, I would run to any prediction market hammer the no on the 2030 will Mauricio Pochino be there for the World cup prop bet? I don't see it happening. Too many things have to go favorably well for Marisa Pochettino and favorably well for U.S. soccer because this is not just a Pochettino needs to secure titles type of deal, needs to do well in recruitment type of deal he also needs or US Soccer needs for him not to be persuaded by a club team to leave. I'd imagine there's some sort of clause that would allow Maricio Pochettino to leave if a European club suitor came knocking.

[Roger Bennett]

9% 9%. What percentage just for control group do you have of Russell Crowe himself being on the sideline for the US at the 2030 World Cup?

[Herculez Gomez]

3% because and I'm only giving it 3% because there's been an influx of celebrities rule soccer when it comes to the United States men's national team. Every chance the world feed got, we were seeing celebrities at the game. So there's a. There's an off chance it could be Pochettino replaced by a Russell Crowe figure next cycle.

[Roger Bennett]

Russell Cruz now just Pochettino stunt double. Look, I'll admit, first up, I like Poch a lot as a human being. Still revere what he did as manager of Tottenham. Borderline alchemy. But that was a long time ago and I want to use this time to get serious about this moment. I can see a pathway to this being a magical moment for the United States. I can also see it being a pathway where this is a damp, damp squib look. Poch spent a lot the first 22 months he was US manager, making very clear how much he missed European club management. Brief groups of English journalists, off the record a number of times, how much he longed to be back running football at a club in England. Reports he interviewed for the Brentford job were not denied. News he interviewed for the AC Milan role, which he didn't get on the eve of the World cup, was confirmed. So this renegotiation, I'll be honest, I've not seen a national team management process like this one. Managers are either fired right after a World cup or they resign or they say how much they love the project, how much they want to be back. I've never seen the likes of. Let's take a couple of weeks, let's decide after that, kind of. Before Humphrey Carr, during our World cup, he called that. And I hate this, but it sums it up. Well, he said essentially it was like putting US soccer in the cook chair. Makes me cringe.

[Herculez Gomez]

Oh, wow.

[Roger Bennett]

When he. I know when he says that for all of these things, they didn't really suggest, this is a gent who's completely and utterly committed to the US build, obsessed with our program, which I'll say as a US fan, that's hard to take. It's kind of more smacked of. Herc. I'm going to explore my options and then I'm going to decide. And you do have to ask, as you've hinted, is this going to now happen every time a big job in the Premier League becomes open during the season?

[Herculez Gomez]

That's the good and bad thing about having somebody who's actually wanted. Right. That people want them, clubs are going to want them and he wants the flirtation back. Raj, this is not a personal opinion. This is what we've seen happen in the 20 months. 20 months. Think about it. 20 months. Not a four year cycle. Marisa Pochettino, where he loves to flirt and he loves to tell the US public and the US press one thing and he loves to tell the foreign press another. So it's good to be wanted. And Mauricio Pochettino has suitors. He's coached psg, he's coached Chelsea, he's coached Spurs. Most recently he was on a shortlist for United. He was on a short list for Brentford and Real Madrid. His name surfaced. It wasn't Real Madrid admitting that he was a candidate, but his name surfaced. So if you're U.S. soccer, my only qualm with this, and there's a few is you want somebody there for 20, 30. Roger. And if there's any chance of losing them, if there's any chance, you know that's a strong possibility. You're not doing your job correctly. US Soccer just hosted the most lucrative World cup in the history of World Cups. The surplus for this World cup for US Soccer is going to be astronomical. You don't need the money. So what you're doing right now if you allow this clause to exist, is you're prioritizing the financial over the Sporting. Because prioritizing the Sporting would be, we want somebody who's going to be here no matter what. It's not an option for you to leave.

[Roger Bennett]

Yeah, I mean, I've got to say from a U.S. soccer perspective, number one, we'll get into this a little deeper. Said after they crashed out in the round of 16 again for what is it? It's the last five World Cups. We've actually qualified for that. We need a really long term vision and I'll talk more about that. But here we are. Pochettino has decided his best option is to stay. And with U.S. soccer having their technical director Matt Crocker bail for Saudi Arabia ahead of the World cup tournament, there's not really the football brain in place to lead a search. It's almost as if both sides have agreed to saddle up in the style of possession becomes 9/10 of the law. And I want to dive into this by building the most positive case possible to begin with. Her. Listen to me here for a second. You could say first of all, Potch didn't even get a four year cycle, 2022-26. He inherited a culture from Greg Burhalter that was one of several softness, that was one of privilege, of overindulgence. He had to change it only had 22 months to do that. He kept telling us trust the process. And there was a noticeable surge World cup proper. We had that glorious first 45 minutes against Paraguay. We had that incredible first 45 minutes against Australia. We had the country road singing in Seattle. The nation rising up behind this team. Team tenacious win against Bosnia. Pochettino, first manager in 96 years to win back to back World cup games for the United States men. Man has already won more World cup games than any other men's US manager, which is remarkable. Essentially. It felt so good until it didn't. And we can't knock the guy without giving him a full cycle under his belt. Her, do you agree with any of this?

[Herculez Gomez]

I agree with a lot of it. Listen, the players were empowered to an extent where they felt they made decisions. Hell, Raj, they were consulted on the US Men's national coaching job and they brought Greg Burhalter back. They decided what they want to do. The culture change that Pochettino brought here within the team, I am for. He once said the players don't need to understand the decisions. You know, they need to go with it. That's fine. I am here for that. And he wanted to stretch not only a cultural change within the team that I think was necessary, but within U.S. soccer in general, within the population, within the game of this country. But the reality is, Raj, if this was a proper culture like he would have wanted, if he tells the president of Argentina they are winning the World cup and they go out in the round of 16, he's gone. If he tells the network that's airing their games before the lead up to a World cup, they will be here this summer and they're going to be in a semifinal game in this stadium, then proceed to eat five goals. He's gone that same day. If he tells them Argentina or Spain to believe why not us? And goes out in the round of 16 by four goals, we're not having this discussion. He's not even making if it's a proper footballing culture as he wants. He doesn't make it to a World cup with 17 wins, 11 losses, two draws and no trophy haul. For a team that with Greg Burhalter, with BJ Callahan, Anthony Hudson was winning trophies first time in his in the US Men's national team's history. They lose a Nations League, he gets in a public fight, albeit we could back him if we want. With his best player in Christian Pulisic. He tells one of his marquee players to shut up and dribble. Don't worry about ticket prices. Trust FIFA, he said. So there's, there's a lot of water under this bridge. But he did do a lot of good things. Raj I like the play for the U.S. men's National Team. It came 20 months later when we finally saw the starting lineup. Over 70 players in the calendar year saw a call up with the US Men's national team. That's what it took for him to find the starting eleven to beat Paraguay. And I thought this was a very good stingy defensive Paraguay team. That when they beat him and everybody was saying it's just Paraguay, I was like, no, they made Paraguay look bad. This is a decent Paraguay team. They made them look bad. But it's an expanded tournament. It's a home World Cup. You're a pot one team. You're never going to get this moment in time back, Rog to be a part one team, the best team in your group against lesser opposition with your golden generation. And you bowed out in that fashion.

[Roger Bennett]

But second cycle it is. And second cycles are moments of transformation. Second cycles are a moment where you have to identify new talent, say farewell to some hardwritten starters who age out of the program. It is a reset and thus it will begin. And to be clear, second cycles are normally given after a real sense of progress has been shown. Crazy think about this, is that the Pochettino era before the World cup wasn't always great. You know, the 10 straight losses continued that run to European opposition, which was befuddling. And the truth is, steady diet, friendlies has made it so hard to judge how strong it was. But somebody wrote today about second cycle curses and U.S. soccer that Bruce arena got a second cycle after the quarterfinals in 2002. It was a disaster. Bob Bradley lasted just a year after his 2010 journey. Klinsmann's 2014 led to him being fired after the team just disintegrated into shambles. Greg Burhalter, we all live that. I'm going to break down the challenges we face as a program in a moment. But Herc, what would you say to all the fans who are like, I'm so pumped. Poch is back. The Greg Burholter Rehire was an agony. Pulisic has faltered. The players need a hard talking to. We still need this culture change. Poch is the one to do it. He's the best thing we've got going on about the program right now. What do you say?

[Herculez Gomez]

Great. That's awesome. Will he be there for 2030 to lead you into that world cup if he is, hey, all for it. I love the culture change. I love the players being held accountable. Marisa Pochettino was a. An American sweetheart for 50 million Americans. They saw the players as the problem. The. They saw this foreign coach as one of the saviors who would lead the US into the promised land. That's great. They didn't see the 20 months. I put out a tweet and it was 17 wins, 11 losses, 2 draws. No trophy halls in the Nations League or in the Gold cup, where they won with a C team at 1.02 versus Mexico, their rival, and they flamed out against Belgium. That's not an opinion, Raj. That's not my opinion. Those are things that happened. Here's my opinion. Marico Pochettino, if you guarantee him till 2030, there could be a lot of process made because we saw things change stylistically on the field. It led us to believe maybe something could happen. Maybe in a very complicated landscape where Canada is no longer the Canada of old. And Mexico, for the first time in a long time, things are looking up for them. And now Rafa Marquez is leading a new generation. And. And you're transitioning. You're transitioning stars. It's now a generational change for the U.S. men's National Team. And you already saw what happened in the 2018 Berl Halter era. You waited 13 months. Dave Sarikin was a caretaker for the U.S. men's National Team. You waited for Greg Burhalter to finish coaching the Columbus Crew. 2022 World cup saga, the Berhalters, the Reynas, US Soccer, whatever the case may be, you lost more time. There was Anthony Hudson, B.J. callahan. You've lost so much time. Can J.T. batson guarantee that Pochettino will be there in 2030?

[Roger Bennett]

J.T. batson, for those who don't know, it's

[Herculez Gomez]

the U.S. soccer president and he's the man responsible here. He's the guy I'm going to hold accountable. This is a sporting decision. The only way this can be a success, sporting wise, is if Marico Pochettino is there in 2030. If not right now, you're only going to feed into the narrative that the wheels are already in motion and the U23 coach, Steve Chirondalo, is going to take over. If and when Mauricio Pochettino leaves, he will be the U.S. men's National Team coach. You're already putting in an insurance policy when there shouldn't be one. This should be a Pochettino 2030. All the way. And that's all we should be hearing. I don't want to hear about release clauses or buyout clauses. Raj, how much more money does U.S. soccer need?

[Roger Bennett]

I love Chandelo and I don't care who knows it. We are delighted to bring you the Men in Blazers City Guides presented by Visa, a joyously assembled guide to the best places to eat, drink and explore and watch the beautiful game across the country. It's a guide aimed at helping fans experience the city as a local. It's built by you, our listeners, recommending some of the best small businesses in your communities, like the finest Viet Cajun in Houston. Yes. The best burrito in San Francisco. Yes. Where to save a Lemon Pepper Wet in Atlanta. Yes. Yes, yes, Yes. A massive shout out to our sponsor Visa, who's made this guide possible. Visa gives local business owners the tools and support to be ready for moments exactly like this one. Welcoming you to enjoy the Games this summer. Start planning your [e-mail] CityGuides from taco

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[Roger Bennett]

You're kind of hinting that without Matt Crocker, the director of football, we actually don't know who's making the footballing decisions right now within the nation. But the question for me is, am I surprised? And the the answer is I honestly think Pochettino probably is, because he signaled to many around him ahead of this tournament that he was not going to be around afterwards. The context is that Premier League teams are currently looking for young tactical brains. We're seeing that up and down the league, essentially what Pochettino was when he broke through, not what he is now. So this is where we are. He's won a mandate to fix the things which continue to bedevil a program over the last two years that he's working on. That's a work in Progress. I said up top 20 30. You've already agreed. Doesn't mean he'll be there. Until then, his competitive games are going to be within CONCACAF. There'll be two Gold Cups, two Nations Leagues. There'll be World cup qualifying starting in 2027. Please, God. Fingers crossed. There'll be a 2028 Copa America in this nation. Could be back in the United States if that happens. I believe the performance at that Cooper would ultimately be definitive. But we've got to fix the goalkeeper position, the back line. We're going to find new talent to build the depth around Tillman and Flo Baligan. I think the ultimate agony of 2026, the World cup journey for me was that the things that ultimately came to undo us in that Belgium game, Herc, the mental inferiority against a middling European opponent, the goalkeeping, the commitment to Tim Ream at center back, were all things that have been, let's just say, question marks for months going into this tournament. And in response to all of them, Pochett kind of just pushed the press away and just kept telling us, actually use this language to trust the process.

[Herculez Gomez]

There's no other sporting culture in this game, in the world where a coach is allowed to say trust the process and the media and the fans don't hold them accountable. I repeat, he would have not gotten to the World cup if this was a proper footballing culture that he would like now. Raj, we could sit here and say world cup merits a second cycle because of the play, but this was already put into motion before the ball kicked off in the World Cup. We were already hearing about talks for a re signing of Marisha Pochettino before you even knew what the product was going to be like on the field.

[Roger Bennett]

It.

[Herculez Gomez]

It goes to show you the thought process of those who are in decision making positions right now with U.S. soccer. Mauricio Pochettino is going to be there for 2030. Let him work. But if more time is being lost, this is going to be the second generation of footballers in a generational change with a competitive atmosphere within concacaf, with Canada, with Mexico, with Panama, with the reemergence of Costa Rica, who didn't even make the last World cup, where you could be in real trouble. And it's not just within concacaf because you're at the point where you reset the market on both the men's and women's side and the women's side. We see what's gotten there. We see what resetting the market has gotten you back to prominence on the men's side. You had private equity come in and is paying this man's salary. Private equity is paying this man's salary. And you don't think they're going to want to see results outside of concacaf? If you are invited or were to host a Copa America, what's the level and when you get to the World cup in 2030, what is the bar? Because it's very easy to tell the president of the United States, we're going to win the World cup and then go on foreign TV in Spain, chiringuito el cafecito. And then when they ask you about winning the World cup, say, wow, I don't kick a soccer ball, I don't score goals, nor do I defend them. That's not what you told the president of the United States. So it's very easy to say one thing and mean another.

[Roger Bennett]

Can I say, if I was Potch, to be honest, I would have thought long and hard about whether my standing was ever going to get better than it is right now in the United States after this summer with the massive crowds, you know, cheering for the team, especially in Seattle. God bless to all you fans in Seattle. You did the Lord's work. We are going to go back to half full stadia, the ones that irritated him so much, the ones who were packed with opposing CONCACAF fans. Actually, if he gets this far, the qualifying for the World cup, first time tough on the road, CONCACAF battles that no managers enjoyed. He's not had to face that singular footballing challenge before. It's going to be fascinating. But quick question for you, because there's a lot of this too, amongst the fan base. Is there anyone better? You know, many US fans had delusions, to be honest, to Pep Guardiola swooping in. We've lived through, you know, a month. People throw the checkbook at Pep. Pep's not coming. But is there any one realistic battle?

[Herculez Gomez]

Yeah, there could be a few realistically better. Pellegrino Matarazzo is a man that I would love to be in charge. And I think it's a guy that if you say he's here till 2030, I believe he's here till 2030. You know, he's. He's a guy that I think knows the American athlete. The American player has fresh ideas that could be of worth.

[Roger Bennett]

New Jersey, born now of Real Sociedad, just won the Spanish Cup. On the show right before the World Cup, I actually asked him about U.S. soccer and whether he'd be interested in the job, thinking he'd say no. For me now Club football. And he was like, yeah, I am interested.

[Herculez Gomez]

Yeah. And he's a guy with fresh ideas but still a realistic approach on what he has at his disposal. When he was in the Bundesliga and he was coaching teams like Hoffenheim, he didn't try to play a proactive type of football. He tried to say, hey, our mission here is to stay afloat. We got to be pragmatic, we got to defend. And within that pragmatic defensive approach, did good things, goes to Sociedad and realizes, hey, this roster allows me to play a different way. He beat Atletico Madrid in a Copa re final. You know, they had a string of like 12, 12 straight games without a defeat or one defeat only. And that one defeat was around Madrid, you know, when he played an alternate squad because he had back to back games, midweek games with the Copa. So this is a guy that I think could offer something fresh, but it doesn't have to be. And this is what people don't understand. It doesn't have to be. Well, provide a different name. Do you think that's what they said to Spain when Liso La Fuente came up from the U20s? Or. Or Lionel Scaloni in Argentina when he came up in the U20s? It doesn't have to be that. You just have to have a plan in place. Raj. And this to me is, is why it gets frustrating. Because it seems like if there is a plan in place and you're seeing what Mauricio Pochettino is doing and you're liking it and you're saying, hey, I like this style of play, don't make the U23 coach, Steve Cherundalo, because if you saw what his team was in lafc, it was not proactive, it was not front foot, it was not progressive play. It was pragmatic, transitional. It was based on athleticism. And maybe you can make an argument for that's what the US should be. That's not what we're seeing here. We're seeing that the US played a different brand. So there doesn't seem to be a place in plan or, you know, just something where it makes you feel good about what's going to happen in the future. Pochettino and I want people to understand this. I want people to really understand this. It's not my opinion. The stats that I stated, those are stats. The trophy hall are actual things happening. My opinion is I wouldn't put a coach in place who I didn't think was going to be there at the end. Too much time has gone by and

[Roger Bennett]

that's a problem for another broken cycle. By the way, I couldn't agree more with you about. And I said this the moment that the US were just outclassed and dumped by Belgium. That vision, that vision, that plan, that big idea for US football, you can't just delegate that and say we'll just let Potch define it. And I couldn't agree more with you about. I mean we are obsessed with big managers leading us as if it's a magical fix. England were with Tuchels, not alone. Brazil with Carlo Ancelotti. We've seen the trend. This World cup is that international football is a strange beast. You mentioned them. Lionel Scaloni won the last World cup as Argentina manager. Luis de la Fuente won this World cup as Spain manager. The former never managed the club side. The latter had I think an 11 game spell with third tier Alaves 15 years ago. That was the last time. You know, international football is different. I'm going to play a very quick game with you here. I'm going to name a manager. You tell me if they you would have had them as better or worse hires than Potch for this cycle. You ready for this one?

[Herculez Gomez]

Sure.

[Roger Bennett]

Steve Chandler?

[Herculez Gomez]

Worse because he's unproven and I don't think the style suits this US Men's national team right now. You know what? I don't know what the style of this year's men's national team is going to be because we don't know what the player pool is going to be. There's been 70 plus players in 2025 that played under him, under Pochettino. Those players, a lot of them are going to be transitioned out. There's a new generation coming through. What's that generation going to look like?

[Roger Bennett]

Jim Curtin?

[Herculez Gomez]

Oh, no, worse.

[Roger Bennett]

Gareth Southgate.

[Herculez Gomez]

I'd say very similar.

[Roger Bennett]

I'm contractually obliged to say the words Jesse Marsh. No,

[Herculez Gomez]

listen, it'd make my job a hell of a lot easier if Jesse Marsh was a coach. He'd give us plenty to talk about. But I think that boat is sailed.

[Roger Bennett]

I love Jesse Marsh.

[Herculez Gomez]

BJ Callahan, I can't sit here and tell you that it's a terrible idea. It's just not a great idea. It's an idea that when I saw come into play, I'm like, hey, this doesn't look so bad. But where those players who were influential during his time will be, I say no.

[Roger Bennett]

Oh, I think he's the Scalooni of American football. New Jersey's Pellegrino Matarazzo.

[Herculez Gomez]

Love it. I really do like it. There's a inferiority complex amongst Americans and they think that anything that is foreign is better than American. And they think that they need this foreign coach to come in and save American soccer. Pellegrino is a guy who's done his time. He's not some Joe Schmo off the street. He knows what it's like to be in top quality setups in the Bundesliga, in La Liga. He's well respected, he's got fresh ideas. He's shown a penchant for playing different styles and getting results under those styles. And he wants to be here. This is another thing. Raj, you mentioned it. Who is making the decision and what decision did you just make with Pochettino? Because you're essentially given to what they've said. He will have a larger role in the development of American soccer. That means coaching, methodology, infrastructure. You're giving keys to somebody who necessarily won't be there at the end. That could be detrimental.

[Roger Bennett]

I want to get back to that in a minute, but I've got to carry on with this beauty. But if you want to hear more from Pellegrino Matarazzo, put the link to this in the show. Notes came on our show right before the World Cup. I was blown away by his intellect, his empathy. Super, super, super, wonderful man. Next one, Thierry Henry.

[Herculez Gomez]

Thierry Henry is a guy that I think has good ideas. Remains to be seen if he could put him to practice. When you have the French U23 team in a home Olympics, they kind of play by themselves and, and listen, they lost who they lost to in the final, which is Spain, which was running things. But I'd love to see what he's all about in a setting like with the US Men's national. Because he's got such a large Persona within America, within the United States. Part of me thinks that could be a. A show, if I'm being honest.

[Roger Bennett]

Bruce Arena.

[Herculez Gomez]

No.

[Roger Bennett]

Bruce arena and Bruce Arena's imagination.

[Herculez Gomez]

No, listen, I love guys like. I love guys like Bruce for what they've done for, for U.S. soccer. And I loved his show with Bob Bradley and Greg Burhalter that they were doing the Rob Stone. I found it very refreshing. But in seeing and hearing his ideas about the game, it's refreshing in terms of the old school American mentality. But I don't think it's refreshing in new ideas. And where you think this national team

[Roger Bennett]

can go bless in 5 years time. I hope we're saying Michael Bradley in this list. Last one for you, Emma. Hayes.

[Herculez Gomez]

Can I be honest? I've been blown away with her punditry. Emma Hayes comes in and she restructures, reinvents the women's national team. There's new faces integrated into the game, there's immediate relevancy. Within 40 days, she's turned the program around and she's winning Olympic gold. There's something to be said about understanding the weight and expectations and executing that. And then I hear her talk about football, I hear her talk about the game, and it's so refreshing. And I'm blown away. And I say this in the most respectful way. I apologize. I wasn't aware of your game.

[Roger Bennett]

I got to say, I also love the way she talks about her love of America is where I will say. But to me right now, all of this is irrelevant. Everything now depends upon Mauricio Pochettino. Again, his career was magic at Tottenham, then derailed with two, I'd say, very bad choices. PSG at their most political, and then Chelsea at its most political. He was spat out quickly at both. But at spurs, what he did, building that young culture of confidence and belief, can he do it with us? I believe he can. But the one thing I'd say in this moment, Herc, is by recommitting, he's got to truly recommit. When he first arrived, it was said he was about to move to the United States and live in Atlanta. He never did. I don't think he has to. I don't care where he lives. But it did very much feel like he was overseeing things from afar. He's got to attack this role with a passion and an intensity. We need Poch to speak with some clarity about why he's staying and what he's building with some detail. He has to engage and respect the media. It was actually hard to watch at times, the way he both Heisman them and was allowed to Heisman them because there's no, you know, as you said, there's no outrage. No one's really watching. I was surprised how little he embraced a vast Spanish language audience. I'll be honest, that he's so well primed to speak to. That is something such an opportunity for U.S. soccer in general. The other element, I'll talk more about this because I think it's very, very important, is to have a serious dual national recruitment strategy. But big picture, this talent overhaul, this is what we need. Tim Ream, gone. Christian Pulisic, Chris Richards, Weston McKinney, Tyler Adams and will be all in their early 30s in 2030. This is a moment in which a men's team can either build. God, I really believe it can. Or it can also sink back into the shadows as American football the popularity surges. But so many fans are actually connecting to the bigger clubs like Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool than they do to the national team. This is the critical nature of this moment, Herc. It can't just be continuing with the energy and the communication and the vision level that came with that first half cycle.

[Herculez Gomez]

I can't. There needs to be actual growth. Listen, 1994 was up until that moment, the most successful financial World cup in the history of World Cups. And it spawned a domestic soccer league. You know, in 1996, Major League Soccer was born. This has to take it to the next level. This league is now over 30 years of age. These players now are in some major platforms where only four of the 11 starters who started the World cup actually had clubs. They weren't just employees of the federation. There is seriousness to this team now, but they've not done anything that any generation before them hasn't done in a home World cup with this golden generation. So there needs to be more because 2030 will be more difficult. Yes, you're probably coast through qualifying because of the amount of teams that qualify

[Roger Bennett]

to six and probably seven, probably more.

[Herculez Gomez]

We're probably talking about seven and a half spots if we're being honest. There's going to be an expanded World cup come 2030. It's going to be in six different countries, three different continents. Who knows what this qualific qualification process will look like. Who knows what kind of bumps are going to take, you know, through it all. And who knows what players are going to emerge and need to emerge because you've mentioned the team reams. You know, he's going to be 40, you're going to have to phase him out. So you're talking about a back line who you may have to phase out two of those players out of the four. A starting goalkeeper that you're not too sure about. You're talking about prime players that you now have serious doubts about what they're going to be like heading into their 30s, both because of injury prone and mental status where their head's going to be at with this national team. There's a lot of question marks here.

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[Roger Bennett]

I do want to touch upon dual national strategy because I think it's really critical. I actually think Poch misunderstood it when he said in the last cycle this is his quote. We don't need to convince players of a player needs to want to play for the national team. I'm Argentinian, I wanted to play for Argentina. It's not because of a contract, it's not because of possibility to play in Europe. No. I was desperate to defend my badge, my flag. We need to be careful. There's no need to convince a player as you think. There very much is a lot of convincing that's needed speaking to, you know, the past managers. The convincing using Jesse Marsh go actively about it in the Canadian job right now. Convincing, selling, engaging, making the case. That's what got Flo Baligan here. Argentina is just. It's not a like and a like. Comparing the two is ridiculous. They have so much talent. The players from the very early days dream of playing for Argentina more than they do of playing in a club level. But you look at the likes of Morocco, you look at the likes of even Cape Verde, you know, propelled by dual nationals Mexico now number of the stars at the last World cup born elsewhere. Savvy recruitment alters the narrative of teams, turns good ones into great ones. We got the likes of 19 year old defender Noah Kai Banks, German mother, American father playing in the bundesliga Henry Chase, 22 year old defender born in Japan to a Japanese mum, American father of Jamaican descent and more. Many of you listeners will know just an expanded list. We dream of many of these dual nationals, Herc. But the seriousness of which Potch attacks the dual nationals opportunity I think is going to define this next cycle. It is hard work the dual national recruitment. It takes selling, it takes relationship building, it takes grind will determine everything else in the wake of it. Talent really is the key to this next phase. Right?

[Herculez Gomez]

I could not agree with you more. The US Men's national does not have the luxury of turning its back to recruitment when it comes to dual nationals. You mentioned Mexico. The world is changing. Mexico had one less player born abroad than the US Men's national team. And the US Men's national team had two players that their fathers were US Men's national team players. And they were born in different countries. They had one last player born abroad. The world has changed. France had over 90 players in this 20, 26 World Cup. There's only 26 players on a roster, Raj. They didn't all play for France. Morocco has reinvented itself as a federation on the men's and women's side in all categories because of recruitment. That is part of the globalization of the world. It's not just recruitment. It's the globalization of the world we live in. And you have to embrace that. You really do. And Mauricio Pochettino, U.S. men's National Team. It's very romantic to think you don't have to go out and chase these players. They should want to play for you. The United States of America is a soccer country. It's not a U.S. men's National Team country, and it's not an MLS country, but it's a soccer country. There are fans who cheer for other national teams in this country, other leagues in this country, other clubs in this country. You need to convert those people. You need to convert these players. You need to recruit.

[Roger Bennett]

I want to close with some quick fire stuff in just a second, but I do want to say, um, someone just this morning sent back to me a tweet that I dispatched into the world. November 22, 2016. Herc. That was the day after Jurgen Klinzmann was fired. And I tweeted. I think Twitter still had, like, a very tight number of words you could use because this is, like, pretty clumsily written. But I wrote us soccer appointment. We should all be obsessed with is less coach who be short term, but technical director who shapes future for decades. This was nearly 10 years ago. Her reading it today, it shocks me because it's still true. Probably truer than ever.

[Herculez Gomez]

I mean, think about how sad that is, raj. That was 10 years ago. And you can go back in time. Before that, it was Sunil Galati calling the shots. There was no technical director, no sporting director, no, no, nobody with a vision. Now, go ahead and look at any given club or national team and look at the amount of people who work within a coaching crew, a technical crew. It's something like 30, 40 people. And they all have specialized roles. This is no different. Now, with a sporting director, you can't be CEO and make sporting decisions. There has to be somebody specialized for this decision. They have to hold accountability with these decisions. You don't have that in U.S. soccer right now. It was like this 10 years ago, and it's like this today. It's like this today. And that's. That's not only sad, that's damning to where you're going to go. If you're leaving business people to start out sporting structure, you're in trouble.

[Roger Bennett]

Well, I mean, I will say this again. We need a vision, like an articulate vision, an intelligent vision, a vision that we can all understand the measure against. By the way, we should welcome that measuring. We should welcome accountability. Accountability. At the end of the day, it's just a symbol of a rise of people caring. We all want that. You can't pick and choose when you want people to care. This is what pains me the most. When U.S. soccer allows the decision making to slink back into the shadows. That's when everything feels really small again in this nation, because football is bigger and bigger than ever. But the national team can become voluntarily irrelevant in moments. We've got to change that. We've got to act big, think big, envision big, but make that vision so clear. But I want to end with some quick fires. You ready for this hurricane?

[Herculez Gomez]

Let's go.

[Roger Bennett]

Can you name three players that this news Potch resigning is good news for.

[Herculez Gomez]

Yeah. One would be Alex Freeman. I'll start at the back. I think the emergence of Alex Freeman has been incredible. And that's a direct Pochettino find. I made this player and he flourished under my system. The second one would be Malik Tillman. Malik Tillman was one of the best midfielders not just in the US men's national team, but in this World cup per 90 minutes played. Not my opinion. Those are statistics. Look at those statistics. He did himself a world of wonder. And then the last one was very close between Sebastian Berhalter and I think Sebastian Berhalter, what he did. There are a lot of people who didn't like what he did because the league he played in, but I think he shut those people up. He had himself a very good World Cup. But I'm not going to go with Burhalter. I'm going to go with Faller and Baligan. It was Mario Pochettino who. Who made this kid explode in a big way, in a way where he could get a massive transfer this upcoming window. He scores three goals. He. He's one of the most dangerous players within the realm of concacaf. He really took a step forward With Marisa Pochettino. And you said something interesting earlier about building around a faller and Baligan. I could not agree more. I could not agree more. Good age. A prime suspect to be around for a while. Can play in different ways regardless if you want to be possession based or if you want to be transitional or if you want to press. He could do a lot of different things for you. And he's got a goal scorers touch.

[Roger Bennett]

I had the exact same three. Tillman Baligan, Alex Freeman. I love the Seb Burholter shout out. I think when you look at that Belgian game, you look he was fighting to the very end. I will never forget. Just a hustle.

[Herculez Gomez]

Isn't that sad, Rog? That, that, that's. That's our silver lining is he looked like he cared.

[Roger Bennett]

That's what it is. I mean I will not forget that. That was, that was.

[Herculez Gomez]

Yeah, it's true.

[Roger Bennett]

Watching him in Middlesbrough this season, I also had on my dance card Tim Ream. He's coming back. He's never gonna leave. Three players. Pochettino resigning his bad newsful.

[Herculez Gomez]

Well, I think the first one is Diego Luna and Diego Luna has done himself no favors. Goes on this with his friends or these YouTubers and starts talking about switching over to Mexico and then comes in and what you can see him looks kind of out of shape, you know, not really the same Diego Luna. A lot of water under that bridge. That could be maybe too much for Diego Luna to kind of salvage. If it is Mariju Pochettino who's there for the long haul. 20, 30. The second one is going to be Eunice Musa. Eunice Musa is a kid who I think kind of got the short end of the stick because he did nothing that Christian Pulisic didn't do. Except he's not Christian Pulisic during the

[Roger Bennett]

Gold cup when he didn't show up,

[Herculez Gomez]

when he didn't show up in the Gold cup, when he showed up for the summer friendlies and the teams kind of advanced without him. And he's in a club situation right now where he's going to go back to Milan and it's a crowded midfield. Who knows what it's going to be like for him. And there's the emergence of Sebastian Burhalter and even an Aiden Morrison, a Tanner Testman within that group. I don't think it's good news for Younes Musa. And then the third one is the dual national. The dual national. Insert any dual national here because you've already mentioned he doesn't want to go out and recruit dual nationals? Well, you're going to lose out on the Nathaniel Browns. We saw him as a starter for the German national team. You're going to lose out on the players like Noah Kai Banks, who's still uncommitted, who could potentially be a very good center back. And you need a center back right now. You're going to lose out on the players who have an opportunity to choose a different flag, to choose a different national team because you don't want to go through the process because you feel they should already be all in. And maybe there's some romanticism that comes with that, but it's not the world we live in a day.

[Roger Bennett]

I also wonder how Matt Fries is feeling right now, but what do you think it means for Christian Pulisic? 27 years old now, Truma have taken off the Gold cup, so he was good and ready for the World cup proper. And then just 225 minutes crossed four games for the U.S. just one assist, no goals and then that final agony limping off in the Belgium beat down after 59 minutes. How does Poch view him?

[Herculez Gomez]

Poch probably views him as his best player that he has in the program, who's untrustworthy when it comes to being on the field physically. And maybe there's some mentality to that as well. And you have to wonder what Christian Pulisic's head's going to be at two World Cups. He's already accomplished more than any American has ever accomplished at the club level on the men's side. Part of me thinks that Christian Pulisic is over this. How does Marisa Pochettino approach that? How does he fight for Christian Pulisic, if he fights for him at all? I'm sure there's some fans who are saying good riddance be done with them. I don't think that should be the case. I think it's still a very valuable player, but I think this lies more on Christian Pulisica's side than really Marisa Pochettino side.

[Roger Bennett]

The when you say over this, what's this?

[Herculez Gomez]

I think this is the criticism and sadness he has garnered with the US Men's national team. There's a certain vibe about the kid that's very John o' Brien that just wants to be happy.

[Roger Bennett]

John o', Brien, one of the greatest ever with a ball at his feet and US men's jersey on a man who one of those footballers who needed to be 100% healthy in his own mind too. Really does one of the Very few people, players I've ever heard who, when given a start, the World cup, turned around and said, you know, I'm not. I'm not quite fit. I'm not going to play. I mean, he was. He was both of those things. An incredible footballer. Now, I think. Is he a therapist in.

[Herculez Gomez]

He is. I believe he's a. I believe he's some sort of psychologist now. But you're talking about a John o' Brien who was a very bright shining star who. Who kind of burnt out very quickly and off into the sunset he went and is more folkloric within U.S. soccer circles than anything else. Christian Pulisic is not folkloric. It's not my opinion that he's the best American at the club level that's ever existed in the men's side. Those are facts. It's not my opinion that when he is physically fit for the national team, he's one of the best players, if not the best player they have. Those are also statistics. He's a player that for whatever reason cannot stay healthy. And I don't know how much of this summer, the last two summers are going to be on his mind moving forward. Because you saw this documentary they put out on the network that has the U.S. men's National Games, the us versus them, the play on words, us versus them. It made it seem like it was the media that were going after Christian Pulisic, that it was the media that was going after these players. There seems to be a sense of us versus the world, but that works. World isn't just the rest of the world in a World Cup. It's everything that encompasses the footballer. And that's where I'm worried for Christian Pulisic.

[Roger Bennett]

All right, let's pull it together with a totally ludicrous game based on how we did at World Cup 2026. Herc predict what happens in these tournaments. Do we win the Gold Cup?

[Herculez Gomez]

No, because the Gold Cups not been a tournament that the US Men's national has taken seriously in the last like seven or eight editions. So I don't expect them to take it seriously again in this edition. I say no.

[Roger Bennett]

The Nations League?

[Herculez Gomez]

Yes, but it will not be easy. I think Canada is going to give them a real run and you have Mexico, obviously, who's always front runner as well.

[Roger Bennett]

How far do we get in the theoretical 2028 CO for America on home turf?

[Herculez Gomez]

Well, further than you did last time, I'll tell you. That's for sure.

[Roger Bennett]

Too soon.

[Herculez Gomez]

I think quarterfinal at minimum has to be the standard You've got to realize that there are some countries that are South American countries, let alone the Mexicos and the Canadas of the world that are prime for real blood this go around because they've not been prime South American countries for quite some time. I'm talking about the Colombias, I'm talking about the Uruguay's, I'm talking about the Ecuadors. Those disappointing countries that had a terrible World cup will be gunning for the likes of Argentina and Brazil.

[Roger Bennett]

20, 30 World Cup. How far do we get?

[Herculez Gomez]

I'm very interested, interested, excuse me, in seeing what this new generation is about. The Julian Halls, the Memetis, you know, the Gozos, you know we had Xavier Gozo and Vamos and the kid like you want that enthusiasm, you want that hunger with the talent level that goes with it. I'm very interested in what this team's going to look like. I really am. But you're asking me to gauge right now, Raj, a team that's going to be in a generational change and generational change brings heartache. I think there's going to be a lot of lumps in the corner or in the process for Marisa Pochettino. And this is where this trust a process should come in when you're taking these lumps, not when you got a primed and oiled vehicle that should be winning races. Here is where you trust the process. And it's going to be very difficult for me to to trust this process, but I think this young generation has a an opportunity to surprise and a surprise for me would be quarterfinals or better in a 2030 World Cup.

[Roger Bennett]

Amen. With Russell Crowe on the sideline for the big one. You're beautiful, man. I've really enjoyed listening to you. To better days ahead.

[Herculez Gomez]

Beautiful better days, my man.

[Roger Bennett]

Courage.

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