Molly Seidel (3:09)

I don't know. I feel like we are of a similar mind. Like, that of life is really cyclical. Like, it can't always be good, it can't always be bad. And so much of it is like living in what you're living at that moment and not trying to make it something different. And I think both of us. I think back to, like, when we were in Paris a couple of years ago and, like, both just kind of going through it in our own way. But it is that moment of, like, being able to appreciate when things are hard and knowing, like, this isn't going to last forever and also knowing that the good times, those aren't going to last forever. But I think that that's what makes it that much more special. Like, it takes experiencing, like, the breadth of human experience to actually appreciate what that means. Because I think without the tough times, the good times wouldn't feel as good. It's great to have the support of people around you and the support of people who get it, but I think you also have to, like, have that deep faith in yourself when you're going through tough times of, like, no one's gonna get me through this but myself. And I think once you establish that level of faith in yourself, that then it starts to click, that it's like, no matter what you experience, you have that trust of, like, hey, no matter what shit I'm going to come up against. Like, I deeply believe that I can get myself through this.

Mentor Buffet Host (4:19)

I think it would be actually really cool to track a little bit that journey of you figuring out how to be there for yourself because you are a pro at it now, but you weren't like, it's been a long path there. Yeah, right. So just take me through that if you can. Even however short or however long it takes you to talk me through getting to that moment that you just shared with me of, you know, what if no one's gonna be there for me. I'm gonna be there for myself. I need to be there for myself no matter what. Can you take me through that journey a little bit?

Molly Seidel (4:56)

Yeah, I, like, I feel like I've talked a lot about like the post Olympics, like, dip and like, how tough that was, but like, I feel like it didn't really hit for me of like establishing that level of like, resilience until like, like I fully crashed out in those years following the Olympics. But it was almost like a multi step, like prolonged crash out because so much of it was like experiencing this high, high level of success in the sport but having none of the, I don't know, mental or like, I don't know, I didn't have anything built up in my life to be able to handle it. And I just crumbled under the pressure. And I realize, like, I can come to terms with like, what that was of just being like, I reached this pinnacle of the sport and I just didn't have any like, support system within myself to be able to handle that. And so when my body started to fail me just because I had pushed it so hard to get to that level of success, it was like everything just fell apart. And it's impossible to separate like the life side of things from the sports side of things. And I think I've overly tried to focus on like, all of this is sports and like crashing out. But I think it is like that aspect of like, the things that were going on in my life that I wasn't confronting is like, what led to that. Like, they almost intermixed. Like, basically what had happened is like, I like grew up super Catholic, went to Catholic college, whatnot, knew my whole life I was gay, like, just basically was in a situation where I was like, wasn't publicly comfortable, like, saying that I wanted to like, date women just like that whole thing. And kept getting into situations where every time I was like, ready to be like, okay, like, I'm only gonna date women from here on out, like, would then like, keep dating the exact same kind of guy over and over. And I think it like finally hit of like in that period post Olympics crash out, got into a relationship that got really serious really fast, that I wasn't being honest with myself of what I needed out of the relationship and kept kind of like stuffing down so many of these things in my life and was willing to ignore a lot of stuff that was happening in the relationship and ignore my own feelings about it and the fact that like, I don't know, it was just a complicated situation. And so I just found over time that. That trying to manage the fact that, like, I didn't feel aligned in how I was in the relationship, but we kept moving forward and my partner was really hurting me repeatedly that it came to a head the month before the Olympic trials in 2024, that my entire life, like, fell to pieces, basically. It just got to such a. Such a difficult point that I ended up kicking him out of the house. And basically from there, my entire life just fell to shreds. My career fell to shreds. This was a person that I was like, at that point, I was convinced I was going to marry and I had to confront. I was like, man, I don't know how I let the relationship get this serious when I did not want to be in a relationship with a man. And it was only from that, like, absolute rock bottom point of my body being more broken than it has ever been my entire life being more broken than it has ever been that, like, I finally started to rebuild. And I know that's, like, a shitty thing to say, but I honestly think it took, like, everything being taken away and everything breaking to finally be like, no, like, what do I actually want out of this? I've never talked about that publicly. I never talked about that breakup publicly. And it kind of just, like, kept it under wraps because I felt so much shame about it for a really, really long time.

Mentor Buffet Host (8:58)

Yeah. And there wasn't, like, a clear resolution yet, right?

Molly Seidel (9:03)

No. And it continued for a long time. Like, my partner wanted to get back together with me. I know deep down I don't want to be in this relationship, but. But I've been told my entire life that this is what I should want out of a relationship and that if you love someone, which I loved him so deeply, if you love someone, you need to sacrifice every part of yourself to make it work. And I think that that experience of being like, no, like, if someone's hurting you, that's not you loving yourself. That's you, like, throwing yourself under the bus for it.

Mentor Buffet Host (9:34)

You're observing that you grew up with so many, like, voices, like, values kind of in your head.

Molly Seidel (9:44)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (9:44)

That, like, this felt like, you know, a version of love was staying there, you know?

Molly Seidel (9:50)

Yeah. I don't know. I think it was like I was so wrapped up in what everybody else wanted out of me. And, like, I think too, it's like when you. When you grow up in a really structured, I don't know, system of belief, like, that you aren't asked to question, like, what you want. And so I had just kind of done all these things. Reflective is like, you have to be marathon running and do the Olympics because that's what everybody wants you to do. You have to marry a man because that's what everybody wants you to do. You have to want all the things that you're told to want. And it wasn't until that moment in, like, early 2024 that I was like, like, I don't want any of this. I don't want any of these things because I'm not happy. I'm deeply unhealthy. And I'm, like, tearing myself apart because I'm trying to force myself to want things that I don't want.

Mentor Buffet Host (10:34)

Yeah.

Molly Seidel (10:35)

What my life is is not warranting the joy that I'm getting out. And I'm putting all the other joy in the rest of my life, like, is taking a back seat to that, like, very. It's almost like that drug of success. And it. In the same way that I almost think an addict, like, I think success and ambition is highly addictive because you start to throw away everything else in order to just get more of that. Get more of that. And I was finding. I was, like, basically living in injury and sadness and really deep, dark mental places for, like, periods of years in order to warrant having, like, a moment of success in a single marathon every two years. And then I'd spend another two years injured, and then I'd have another one. I was like, I gotta get that again. And it was that. That, like, I was in this place of such pain in my life, but in my head, I was like, well, if I make the Olympic team in 2024, that's gonna fix everything.

Mentor Buffet Host (11:33)

Yeah.

Molly Seidel (11:33)

And then my fucking kneecap broke, like, because I think my body and my brain was just so unaligned with, like, what I was doing.

Mentor Buffet Host (11:41)

Yeah. Who is the voice of people who say what we should want? Like, who are the people that are, like, the Olympic marathon or whatever? Like, who is. That's. They. That's, like, the. Them in the world or whatever. You know, they say this is awesome or whatever, but that's coming from, like, an institutionalized, commoditized world. Right. Because if it were not an Olympic sport, like, the Olympics does make things become more prestigious. Right. What I'm trying to say is, basically, the things that people are telling you that you want are coming from a place that I think is actually trying to, like, make money and sell things. Like, it's coming. It's not Coming from, like, this is objectively. It's not that marathon running is objectively better than trail running. It just is more institutionalized at the moment, and it happens to be more prestigious.

Molly Seidel (12:29)

Yeah. And because even then, when I switched from track to the marathon, too, I got a lot of. From people, too. It's only, like, after I proved that I was successful at it and that I could make money off of it, that it was, like, made sense. Even now, like, I don't know. After doing this trailer race, I was like, we always knew Molly could do it. I was like, no, you didn't. Everybody shot on me for the last two years when I wanted to do it. So I think it is that it's like that. That level, it is constantly readjusting. And I think it's whether it's, like, personal opinions and cultural stuff or just, like, where the running world is moving or whatnot, it's like, that is a constantly moving target. So I think that that's why you have to really cultivate an internal sense of success and fulfillment, because it's impossible to hit the moving target of what everybody else is setting.

Mentor Buffet Host (13:15)

Yeah. It has nothing to do with your, like, ephemeral joy for this sport that you're doing. It has to do with how you fit into a system and to an equation where, like, the standards don't. They come from context. So the standard that this is what you should want comes from context. But when you, like, decontextualize how you actually feel about things in your life, when you're just like, this has nothing to do with, like, a need. It has nothing to do with money. It just has to do with, like, my relationship to, like, the world and my universe and my body. Then you can really get in touch with, like, what you like and what you want. But it is really hard to dissociate, like, our passions in life from, like, our need to fit in and survive and, like, be in, like, a hierarchy.

Molly Seidel (13:57)

Yeah. And I also think it, like, I think that my success in the marathon has afforded me the luxury of being able to figure that out. Like, I think I was in a very different place earlier in my career where I was just like, like, scrapping and hungry and willing to do anything in order to, like, get to a stable place. And now I feel like part of the equation is, like, I was able to have a level of success in the marathon that let me now have the freedom to explore what I actually want out of it, because I realized, like, I'll have conversations with people where I'm trying to tell them, like, guys, like, you can't sacrifice your health for this. You can't. Like, there's more to life than just like success in racing. And it doesn't like, sink in. But I realize that, like, that's kind of a shitty thing for me to say as someone who has now reached this level of success, that I can do what I want and explore things that are healthy and sustainable for me. Whereas, like, I couldn't have done that when I was 24 and working three jobs and would have done anything to make that Olympic team. Like, I have to have a little bit of compassion for, like, that earlier version of myself that I was like, yeah, I was willing to throw away my mental and physical health in order to be successful. Like, I was so hungry for it. And it's like, it's only now that you see what the outcome of that is. But also, like, I'm reaping the benefits of me being a fucking psychopath in my 20s.

Mentor Buffet Host (15:17)

I get it. Yeah. It's like an earned. The space is like an earned privilege that you now have. Yeah.

Molly Seidel (15:22)

And so I, I feel like I can't like, tell people. Like, it feels shitty for me to try and like, warn people. Be like, hey, like, don't chase success at the behest of everything else. Because I'm like, success gets you a lot of things.

Mentor Buffet Host (15:33)

Yeah. That I really vibe with mine. Like, my perspective on it or like, how I impact the world is slightly different. Like, mine is more like people like, you're multi hyphenate, you do this and you do this. But like, when I was trying to make the Olympics, I was like, decidedly kept those careers separate. Like, I was like, I do not need my running coach to care about my art. I do not need the film festivals to care about my running. Like, you have to become world class at each of these. You can't just conflate them and say, I have a world class career. It's like, actually you have a mediocre. You know, you can have like a mediocre career in both and have it lift the other one up.

Molly Seidel (16:08)

Yeah. But do you feel like some of that is you aligning more fully with what you wanted out of each of those things?

Mentor Buffet Host (16:16)

I honestly think I wouldn't have made it to the Olympics had I said, I want to be an artist athlete when I was at practice. Yeah, like, when I was at practice, I was like, I am a runner right now. I think it just took being where my feet were. And so what I Meant was like, when you're saying, hey, I don't want to like mislead people and say that whatever you just said for me, it's like, I don't want to mislead people and, and make them think that I was not hyper focused on each of these crafts independently when I was doing them. Yeah, like that. I was like some very on the track. I was like, no, I was like, drew, like, I was a.

Molly Seidel (16:51)

No, you were a monster. Like, yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (16:54)

And so I, I vibe with that. I'm not sure what to say about

Molly Seidel (16:57)

it, but I think that, that, like, I don't think there is a right answer for it. Like, I don't. I don't think anyone's going to solve what like balance looks like in a life. Because I do think sometimes, like, you do have to be kind of crazy unbalanced in order to achieve big things. Like, does it make sense for you to be balanced or unbalanced and like, just own what you want to be?

Mentor Buffet Host (17:19)

Maybe being aware of what it is you're doing. Maybe it's like, at least be aware that you're like, at least be aware.

Molly Seidel (17:26)

Yeah, like, if you want to be a psychopath, be a psychopath. But like, own that shit.

Mentor Buffet Host (17:30)

Be in the driver's seat of that.

Molly Seidel (17:32)

Yeah. Because that's it. I go through phases even now, like, especially with the trailer and stuff. Like, you have to be a little bit of a psychopath at certain periods. But like, keep the perspective of knowing, like, okay, like, I'm doing this for a certain thing and then like give yourself the off ramp for it as well. Yes, like, because I think that's it. It's like you can have balance in different ways. You can have the balance in your day to day life of doing a lot of different things, or you can have the balance over the course of a year where you go super hard in the paint at one time and then you step away from it for a bit to like recharge and figuring out what that balance looks like from person to person, I think is different.

Mentor Buffet Host (18:08)

Yeah, there's a period of time that you're doing this. It's almost like you're getting in the pool of that. That mode you're talking about. And you can get out of the pool and dry off and be in the sun and then you get back in a different pool if you have that propensity towards the extremes. One of my favorite parts about trail running is my connection to the actual trail. No matter what headspace and body space. I wake up in. When I lace up my shoes and go out my door onto the trails just up the road, I know the run is going to take me where I'm meant to be. To carry myself to a view is one of the most satisfying ways to start a day. And being outside also helps tremendously with my creativity. I've been running in Merrell's new Agility Peak 6. The Float Pro foam cushioning gives me a gentle ride. The Flex Connect technology shifts with me in the terrain so I have no fear of falling. The Vibram MegaGrip traction locks me in on technical terrain so I can focus on nothing but but the run. And what am I thinking about on the run these days? I've been writing my new book, and when I'm running alone especially, I use my time to reset and reflect on big thoughts that are eventually going to end up on the page. The Agility Peak 6 is also available in Gore Tex, and It's available on Merrell.com starting February 6, along with many other shoes and apparel I love. Merrell has been a global leader on the trail for over 40 years, innovating and crafting footwear designed for adventures of all sizes, speeds, and sizes. You guys are in luck because the offer is amazing. For a limited time, we're partnering with Merrell to give you 25 off your first purchase using the code mentor buffet25 when you check out on merrell.com that's Mentor Buffet25 when you check out on Merrell.com Meryl believes in sharing the power of outside with everyone, and so do I. So let's get outside, get out on the trails, and let's get back to the episode we talk about. Like, what do you get out of that, that moment, that brief moment you're talking about when you were chasing, like, success, and you're like, if only I can get this, that run, that race. Well, and then you were injured for a few months, you know, that, that, that thing you were reaching for, you know, how would you describe it? Is it. Is it a drug hit or is it actually. Then everyone will leave me alone so I can figure out what I really want. Is it a distraction? Like, what is it that we get out of those moments of success that we chase when we're actually in the middle of chaos?

Molly Seidel (20:30)

It's funny because I feel like for me, that's always been there. Like, I think I was just kind of born with that. Maybe that is, like, my core, like, I don't know, core challenge that I have to, like, confront Is that, like, I was born with this thing where it's like, I truly believe that me fully at my best, running, like, all out, doing what I love to do, is the best in the world at this. That feeling of being like, I'm getting close to that alignment of being like, I know that I am maximizing my potential. I feel like I am, like, doing the very best that I can do. And it really is that moment of success is a little bit divorced from, like, what I get out of it financially. Like, I'm not thinking about the outcomes of it. It is just that joy and being like, I knew I could do this. And it is that deep internal, like, I knew I could do it. But I think that that then turns toxic for me if I don't. If I'm not aware of where I'm taking it, because that's where it becomes a drug where it spirals out of control. Because especially, like, in the marathon or in track or whatnot, I take that feeling and that desire to be like, I want to maximize my potential and see how good I can be at this. And then I try to overreach for what my ability level is or whatnot. Like, in the marathon, I. I think I could have been. Had a fully healthy and happy marathon career until I was 40 if I had just trained, like, the athlete that I was at the marathon, which is, like, probably at my best, maybe, like 219. I think at my best in the marathon, I could probably run a 219. But in my mind, I'm like, you can be the best in the world at that. And so I try to fucking train like a 2:16,215 girl, and I break every single time. And so I think it's that it's having, like, it's having to have that honesty of, like, what do you want to be versus, like, what are you? And I think that that's always been my struggle. It's like that deep belief. I'm like, I know that I can be the best in the world at this, but I don't know. I keep trying to be something that I'm not, and it then gets me into trouble because then I'm like, why can't I be that? Can I train harder? Can I be that? And it's like, it's wrestling with that feeling. And I don't know if that's just me being a psychopath or whatnot, or me being cocky or delusional, but I think, like, every time I step to the line of a race, I Go into it with the intention of, like, I want to be the best at this, then.

Mentor Buffet Host (22:59)

How interesting for you to be taking up a sport that you're quite novice in, because you have to be reverent to the mystery of it and to be kind of having this coach in your life that knows more than you. So, like, is it interesting now to be in a sport that you like? You know, you're kind of a freshman. Maybe you're JV now.

Molly Seidel (23:30)

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe like number one or two on the JV team.

Mentor Buffet Host (23:34)

So, like, people are like, you qualified for Western states. How could you be jv? But. But, like, tell me about the relationship with believing you can be the best and that feeling, that, like, kind of inner. I mean, I. I'm just, like, gonna take aside today to say I will never forget because you inspired me to chase this Greek record because we were on the roof of an apartment in Paris.

Molly Seidel (23:59)

Oh, my God. Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (24:00)

The night before your. Your.

Molly Seidel (24:02)

My appendectomy. Your appendectomy.

Mentor Buffet Host (24:05)

We had just gone to dinner and we were, like, maybe a little tipsy.

Molly Seidel (24:08)

We were very. We were. No, we were fully drunk. Call it like, it was.

Mentor Buffet Host (24:12)

We were drunk on a roof in Paris, and, like, the Eiffel Tower is right there, and it's, like, so awesome. And you're just like, you can do it. And they get this intensity. And I was like, I love this person so much because I am a little monster, too. And I just. I just had to mention that because I think that's the part of you that's coming out when you're like, I can. Like, I see how beautiful it is that you believe that in yourself, because you even inspired me to believe it about myself for my own goals.

Molly Seidel (24:40)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (24:41)

But tell me about. Yeah. This relationship you're now having. Brand new, sort of brand new side of the sport. Brand new sport, coach. And, like, how does that play with your ego of. I believe I can be the best. I overdo it. How does that play with you?

Molly Seidel (24:59)

Yeah, I think some of it is, like, going into this new sport and really wanting to be intentional about not making the mistakes that I've made in the past where, like, I'm very bullheaded. Like, I always think I know best and trying to really trust in the process. I know that's such a fucking cliche to say, but, like, trust in the process of it. Of being, like, no. Like, part of being a newbie at something is, like, taking the time to do it right and build the foundation of it and having the faith that if you build the foundation correctly and don't try to just, like, get everything at once, get that quick success, that it will pay off in the end. Because I think, like, for the marathon, for me was this crazy experience of going straight to, like, this huge level of success, and I hadn't built any of the foundations on it. So in my head, then when it fell apart because there was no foundation, I was like, why am I not better at this? I was so good at it, but I forgot that I didn't do the necessary work that I needed to sustain that success. And I think with trail, for me, like, it is this unknown quantity for me. Like, I have no idea where this thing is heading. I just have this deep, visceral feeling that this is what I'm meant to be doing. And in the past, me chasing that feeling has led to great things, but it is just trusting of, like, I have to believe that if I work now to be patient, to lay the foundation, to do things in the right way without skipping steps, it's going to get me where I need to be. But I'm okay if it doesn't pan out like. Like getting fourth at Black Canyon, like, that was such a huge accomplishment for me because I'm like, man, I know, like, how good I can be at this. And, like, this really feels like the first step and, like, really validating that I'm on the right path. I'm not where I want to be yet. It's being able to trust that it's going somewhere. It's like having that faith that where I am now is not where I'm going to be.

Mentor Buffet Host (26:56)

It's almost like, we can be grateful you didn't win. Yeah, right.

Molly Seidel (27:02)

No, but honestly, like, I think that is, like, the best situation, especially for me, because I think if I'd, like, gone out and had this, like, crazy way, there's nowhere for me to go from there.

Mentor Buffet Host (27:10)

That's the same beginning as you had in the marathon, in a way.

Molly Seidel (27:14)

And it's like. And it's being able to. To look at that growth as, like, a positive thing. Like, I'm doing trail and ultra, not because, like, I'm instantly good at it. Like, this is incredibly challenging for me. To do that race was the hardest shit I have ever done. But I think it's that hardness of just being like, this is a challenge for me to confront and a problem to solve and an unknown to have to just sit in. And I think that's good for me as a person, because I think it cheapens the experience if you just get everything all at once.

Mentor Buffet Host (27:46)

Yes. That's what I'm talking about with the earned joy and the earned confidence. I'm saying, like, if you just got it, you actually don't get the. You don't actually get as much out of it. You save time, I guess. But that's not the point of. That's not the point of anything.

Molly Seidel (28:04)

Yeah. Because that's it. It's like we get tricked in our capitalist hellscape of a culture that, like, that the best thing is to get the thing that you want as quickly as possible. And I really don't think that's what it is. I really think it is the journey and the experience and that delayed gratification that makes it so good. Like, why I was so happy getting that golden ticket is because this has been, like, years of struggle and years of just being in the fucking weeds of it. And, like, this time last year, I couldn't run. And I remember talking to my girlfriend and just being like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do this anymore. And, like, that heartbreak that I felt like, I had a day, we were, like, at Barton Springs, and I just sobbed to her of, like, this deep heartbreak that I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to run at the pro level anymore. And I love this more than anything in the world. And it's going from that and being in the weeds and being uncertain for such a long time and then coming out and being able to get a golden ticket, that was, like, pure, unadulterated joy just because of where I had come from.

Mentor Buffet Host (29:09)

That is so beautiful. And it is such a. Like, I want to shout it to, like, the treetops or whatever people say. I want to stand on the cloisters. Yeah. And I want to tell, like, you know, like, young people who are impatient that, like, the more it takes, the. The happier you will be or the more grateful or the more, like. And so to really not be so afraid of what it takes to do anything.

Molly Seidel (29:39)

Yeah. But I think that that's a hard thing. Like, that's something that I just didn't understand when I was in my 20s. I think that was, like, something that I had to learn over time, that it is worth it more when. When it takes a while. That, like, there is a point to the pain and the sadness and, like, that the level of joy that you can reach with something is, like, just directly proportional to the sadness and the pain that you can, like, not withstand, but that you can let yourself sit in.

Mentor Buffet Host (30:11)

Yeah. And process and stay by your side during.

Molly Seidel (30:13)

Yeah. It's like your capacity through these big emotions, whether it's high highs or low lows, I think your capacity to feel things does grow over time. Like, I think that I'm. I allow myself to feel more joy at the successes because I've experienced, like, some really low lows. And I don't know, I think maybe there are some people that would be like, oh, I never want to experience the highs or the lows. I want to stay at, like, an even five all the time, and I'm just not going to be that way. Like, I don't know. I think there really is something, like, humid about being able to handle the tough stuff.

Mentor Buffet Host (30:46)

I mean, when you saw your face crossing the finish line of Black Canyon, it was. It's called. Yes, it was Black Canyon.

Molly Seidel (30:53)

Yeah, Black Canyon.

Mentor Buffet Host (30:54)

I was like, I'm always, like, confused because I'm not as versed in the ultra. But when you saw your face crossing the finish line at Black Canyon, your joy was, like, so true and real. And, like, I know you well enough now to know, like, how many smiles you've had to fake, and myself included. I mean, we. We've both, like, had to do photo shoots injured, but, like, there's a lot of, like, showing up to things when we're not, like, emotionally there. And so to really feel it and to see you is, like, so awesome. What you're talking about five minutes ago was, like, you basically were the one that grew up as a kind of like a Know it all. Like, to yourself, like, you're like, I know than everybody. And now you're, like, not only becoming responsive and, like, listening to your own lessons and being like, okay, I need to learn from myself. But also you're, like, learning from this new world you're in. You're learning from your coach, and, like, you're letting the process be part of the resolution. And, like, that is so beautiful. To not have the process be a detour or thing you just simply must deal with, but it's actually the ingredient that will make you happiest.

Molly Seidel (32:09)

Yeah. Or even just, like, I think something that I actually really appreciate from the doctor that I work with. No, Moose.

Mentor Buffet Host (32:16)

Yeah.

Molly Seidel (32:16)

He always says the thing is, like, you have to be kind of open to the world of, like, infinite possibility. Like, you have to sometimes trust that, like, it can be better than you even could imagine. And that's, like, a crazy thing for me to think because I love sitting in the idea of like I'm going to plan out everything, I'm going to know exactly. Like if I do X then X happens.

Mentor Buffet Host (32:37)

And.

Molly Seidel (32:37)

And I think that the fun part of life is experiencing like oh it's gonna be crazy and you have no idea where it's gonna go. Like I don't know. And it is something like that that it's like I don't know that real life will be more insane and worse and better than you could ever imagine.

Mentor Buffet Host (32:57)

Yes. This is like there's. I have a running coach for the first time in seven years and for the first time in a long time I have a good goal in mind. I want to run a personal best in the marathon. I have the Greek record in the 10k and I want it in the marathon too. Training on this level takes thoughtfulness, patience and especially recovery. Because I'm balancing so much in my big busy life. Therabody is my teammate in recovery. It's essential to the consistency that's helping me get closer to my goals which I've begun saying out loud. I've relied on therabody for years and I especially love how their products combine multiple Therapies piece into one device. The JetBoots Pro plus combine compression, vibration and LED. The Theragun Mini Plus. It's so portable I don't go anywhere without it. It does massage and heat. These are science backed devices that actually work. They've done wonders for me. Therabody is part of my daily routine morning, night and wherever else I feel like it. If recovery is something you know you should be taking More seriously, visit theirbody.com and use use code mentor buffet at checkout for 15% off one product of your choice. Your body and goals will thank you. Terms and conditions apply. Now it's time to get back to the episode. An entire part of my book about the infinite and unknown which is so crazy you just said that we place a lot of humans like really have trouble imagining something we don't know. And so when you imagine like the. The result of any decision you're often imagining like the. The thing you can imagine which is the thing you've experienced or seen and you're right like there and Noah Moose is right that there's like that infinitely unknown good or bad that like I think we need more of an image for so that we can like actually give emphasis to it because how can you imagine something you don't know? Like I've started to imagine like an actual treasure chest that like is full of you know Treasure, Right. Like, I don't know what's in there. Like, a bunch of treasure, you know? And so I've, like, tried to put, like, an image to it, because otherwise, I think that I. My mind goes immediately to what I know, which is not the infinite possibility. It's. It's the. Yeah, it's possibility.

Molly Seidel (35:09)

Yeah. But I think even too, when you try to plan things out too much or where you try to, like, set expectations, I think you do almost limit yourself in what's possible. Like, I think of so many times in my career where I've set out for a certain goal, envisioning something, and then the outcome was so radically different that I couldn't have imagined. But I think that that's kind of the cool part of just being like. I don't know, the more you try to set an expectation that it will almost, like, shape where it goes. It's like if you just leave yourself open and be like, hey, I'm just going to follow the process of it. It might go somewhere that's way cooler than what it. What it seemed at the outset.

Mentor Buffet Host (35:46)

I mean, that plays for you. What, like going.

Molly Seidel (35:47)

I think. No, I think I know exactly where that plays. That plays where we met each other at the Houston half for me. Full for you. We warmed up together. That or we shook out together the day before in that weird little, like, swamp area. I don't know what they call it. The bog. The swamp. Somebody from Houston tell us what it's called. But we are down there. And this was like, my first big half marathon. You were running the marathon there, and I remember talking to you and you being like, just like, be okay with being a rookie. Like, this is your rookie season. You're going to be running your first marathon at the trials. Like, be okay with not knowing anything and enjoy that. And I ran a great half marathon that day, but went into trials just being like, shit, I don't know how this is going to go. I'm in the third wave of this race. Like, I've never run a marathon before. But I kept that in mind of be like, you are a rookie. Like, be okay with this being whatever rookie season looks like. I couldn't have imagined making the Olympic team in that race, but I think it was that. It was that, like, I don't know, that manifestation of just, like, be open to something wild happening because you can't know what's going to happen because you've never done it before. And I think that that is, like, I really think about that a Lot. And even like, going into trail now to how I'm approaching western states, it's like I can't have expectations for it because I don't know what it's going to be like to run 100 miles. But I think that that was like, truly such a deep thing that you said of just like, when you're a rookie, just be okay with being a rookie. You can't be confident yet if you haven't done it. That doesn't mean you can't go do great things.

Mentor Buffet Host (37:24)

Yeah. It's like instead of raise the ceiling, just have no ceiling. Like, just like have the sky.

Molly Seidel (37:29)

Yeah, exactly.

Mentor Buffet Host (37:30)

It could rain.

Molly Seidel (37:30)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (37:31)

It could be sky.

Molly Seidel (37:33)

And be equally okay with either of those options. But I think it's like, because we try to make this pejorative of like, oh, it has to end well. And so what does well even mean?

Mentor Buffet Host (37:42)

Like. Right.

Molly Seidel (37:43)

Because sometimes the setback that you experience or the bad race that might end up being the best thing you ever like, it could lead to something even greater. You just don't know because that's how the universe works.

Mentor Buffet Host (37:53)

Yeah. Your old end will be the new beginning.

Molly Seidel (37:56)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (37:57)

As it has been for, I think both of us in so many ways.

Molly Seidel (38:01)

I just think of, like, silly things like if certain like quote unquote bad things hadn't happened, that good things wouldn't have come from there. Like, I don't know. It is just like, I think the universe is very funny like that sometimes.

Mentor Buffet Host (38:14)

And it. But it requires you putting yourself in those mysterious circumstances without knowing. Because there's also like a contract you sign of like, I don't know. Yes. It can go either way. And if you're not willing to put yourself at risk like that, then you'll never get either option.

Molly Seidel (38:32)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (38:32)

Like, you were talking about the middle. And I'm like, yeah, those, those people were not willing to like, deal with the worst case scenario or benefit from the best, you know? So I do think there's like an agreement you make in addition to like, a worldview of like, I'm a freshman or I have this possibility. There's also an agreement to, like, I, I sign on to the mystery.

Molly Seidel (38:53)

Yeah. And I think even too, like, the being scared of the mystery, that's just a natural part of human life. But it's like, I can't remember where I heard this. It's probably from a movie or something. I want to, like, attribute it to a philosopher, but it's probably from a movie. But it is that feeling of like, when you are most Scared jump.

Mentor Buffet Host (39:09)

Like, oh, whoa.

Molly Seidel (39:10)

Yeah. But it is that feel of like, you're always going to be scared, but if you just wait forever, the moment's going to pass. Like, when you feel that fear, that means you got to go for it.

Mentor Buffet Host (39:23)

Wow, that's a good one to absorb when you're not at that moment. Like, so that when it happens, you're like, I already know what I'm supposed to do.

Molly Seidel (39:30)

Yeah. But because you can't, like, logic your way through fear, you kind of just have to go for it.

Mentor Buffet Host (39:36)

It'd be fun to talk about, like, what it is to be a good friend to somebody and also a mentor because you've helped me and I hope I've been there for you during times when, like, I actually needed some, like, advice from the right person, which sometimes is your peer.

Molly Seidel (39:52)

Yeah. I see friendship as someone who can, like, see you as a full person and tell you what you need to hear, when you need to hear it and know that it's going to be, like, accepted. And I mean that in the way of, like, I feel like you've been such a mentor to me and almost like, big sister energy of like, the times that I've struggled the most. I feel like you have been so, like, clear eyed and direct with me about what I needed, but also cared for me on such a deep level. Like, you've called me out on my. And it was like, exactly what I needed to hear. And then you also, like, took such good care of me when I was, like, really, really struggling. And I think that that's what I really value most about our friendship is that, like, I know that you're going to tell me, like, when I'm struggling over a problem, like, I call you, because I know that you're not going to bullshit, like, about any of it and you're going to tell me in a way that, like, comes from a deeply loving place, that you would never, like, lie to me or, like, try to just make me feel better by saying, like, trite little things. I don't know. I even think of, like, when I was trying to decide if I go, if I stay in Flagstaff or go back to Austin for, like, the period right before New York, because I was really struggling and I was just like, you're the only person that, like, whatever you say I should do, I know that's what I need to do because, like, you see me so completely.

Mentor Buffet Host (41:18)

Thank you for saying that. Well, I. I care to see you. I think it's also, like, you have to want to see your friends, you have to really want to see them if you want to help them. Because if you put them through your own lens, like, what I should do, that doesn't always serve what you need, because we're two different people. And I think one of the things that I'm trying to figure out how to say is I wish people understood how much like a friendship, and ours in particular is also about. Sometimes you make a suggestion to someone, as you have to me and I have to you, or give them a perspective, but you gotta let them make their own decisions. And you can't shame them if they're not ready yet. And it doesn't mean you don't tell them the truth, but it means you don't abandon them when they aren't ready for whatever it is that, like, you might see in them. Yeah, right. Because, like, I think we've always also had moments where it's like, oh, yeah,

Molly Seidel (42:24)

you know, and even so much of my running over the, like, LATTER Half of 2024, like, of me, like, continuously trying to run, and you probably just being like this just needs to, like, rest and, like, stop and stop trying. But I think you, like, opened up so much space for you to be like, I don't know, to let me make the mistakes that I was going to make, and you still be there to, like, support me and love me through it.

Mentor Buffet Host (42:47)

But isn't that the same thing that we're saying about the journey, that of, like, earning your joy or earning, like, when. When you go through the long journey and then eventually you get to the finish line, metaphorically and literally, and you feel the journey? Isn't it also, like, a part of that, that every, like, advice or lesson or pivot you make based on, like, maybe wisdom you learn from a friend or from your experiences, it actually has to be internalized and true for you. You can't just, like, live following people's advice and not believing it.

Molly Seidel (43:22)

Yeah, no, but I think that that's where almost like, that. That feeling of, like, sisterhood comes from, because it's, like, it's knowing, like, okay, they're just gonna have to experience it for themselves. There's nothing I can tell them that will change how, like, maybe it's that, like, you really do have to experience something in order to learn it. You can't, like, just learn it through hearing it. You have to deeply feel it. And I think that is that sense of almost, like, where I feel like you're my big sister because you let me, like, live the experience. And like talk me through it. And you're not trying to like, I don't know, lecture me into doing something. It's like having the grace to let me make the mistakes and do the things and still like be there through it.

Mentor Buffet Host (44:05)

Yeah, I will.

Molly Seidel (44:06)

And like, and leave the opportunity for like growth. Because I think that that's where the most positive relationships come from. It's knowing that each of us will grow in the way and at the speed that we need to grow and just being like, hey, like, I'm here for you, like as you are now and what you're going to become and however long that takes.

Mentor Buffet Host (44:25)

Yeah. And it's rare to find in our world because I mean, to be really direct. I think there's a lot of fair weather friendships and that is because it's, I think there's like a general, hopefully it's like dissipating, but there can be like a real scarcity mindset. And so people tend to like follow popular things and people and that it's not always popular to like be there for someone when they're struggling.

Molly Seidel (44:50)

I agree with you there that it's like, that it's, I don't know, it's, it's less cool or harder to be with someone when they're struggling. But I also think that like, it is really deeply scary to be known by someone. I think that is the scariest thing that you can experience as a person is being fully seen. Because so many of us, we want to project to a lot of our friendships, to the people around us. Like, I am a strong, confident, fully realized person. And it's really scary when someone sees your flaws because when they see your flaws, it's up to them whether or not they want to stay through it. And I think that sometimes friendship is almost this like, drawn out process of just showing more and more of the shitty parts of yourself and being like, hope you still show up. Like, hope you still love me. But it's the same as like. That's why I think like we put so much emphasis on like romantic relationships in our culture. But I think friendships are just as intimate because it is that process of like, to truly love someone, like, whether it's romantically, platonically, you have to see a person and you have to know them and understand them and be like, hey, I see all the parts of you and I'm still showing up. But I think that that's a terrifying thing to experience. And so a lot of people I know I've done this in the past of like, you hold people at an arm's length because you're like, I don't want you to see the shitty parts of me. I want you to think that I'm a good person. I honestly don't care if you think that I'm a good person or not. Like, yeah, I, I know that you see me as the person that I am.

Mentor Buffet Host (46:23)

Yeah. It's because we need certain people, we hope and we need certain relationships to be dense enough that we could actually get help from them, which requires actually being honest. Which requires actually being ugly. You know, and it's so interesting because, like, I guess I've never really told you this, but like, when watching you go through like some of these journeys, part of the thing that like, made me stay closest to you or like, just make sure you knew. It was like right there was when I realized how people, even though they love you, like, no one's bad people are well intentioned. But how much people were letting you get by being fake.

Molly Seidel (47:07)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (47:07)

And it wasn't like you were a bad person. You were just fully in a personality that you were so good at. Yeah, that. And I was like, how is like most of the world? Like, just like, like, what is going on? Because I could like, see and it wasn't. Do you know what I'm saying? I was like, oh my God. Because you're so, you are so likable and you are so able to like, show up in your personality and it's all anyone would expect because it's beyond wonderful and eloquent and charming. But like, I could just see and. And I was like, oh my God. I was like, I'm so glad she's like, able to like, navigate the world because it's like, important that you, you can navigate and like, survive.

Molly Seidel (47:48)

But no, but I've. That's when I knew that we were gonna be like best friends is when, like, there was a moment where you called me out and you're like, no, not that. Don't do that. You're being fake. Don't. Don't do that. Don't do the. Don't do the hey girl thing to me. Don't do that. Like literally that. It was like when you called me out, I was like, oh my God.

Mentor Buffet Host (48:06)

The hey girl. Okay, for those of everyone listening, just check again.

Molly Seidel (48:11)

And I'm like, oh my God. Oh no. So I've been, I've gotten.

Mentor Buffet Host (48:14)

Got the hey girl. So the hey girly. Hey girl. The thing about this is it's like a girl's way of saying, like, I'm okay, I'm okay, so don't come in here. And I'm like, in cre. Like, it's this, like, weird. It's a little infantilizing. Also, you're younger than me, but, hey, girly. It's a total, like, shield when people say it. And I was, I can, like, pick up on it. But, yeah, I remember that. And I was like, okay. And I remember also, like, testing with you, like, does she want me as a friend like this? Because I also only want friendships where it's like, do they want the friendship? Like, it's all good. If, like, if this needs to remain, like, surface level, like, I don't need to force anything. It was just more that I was like, I think this can be equitable. Right. This can be really healthy and good. But it does take, like, a few things of, like, I'm gonna, like, try and be really honest.

Molly Seidel (49:08)

That's where I appreciate, because it was like, I had such a guard up for such a long time because I think I had just learned, like, hey, don't show anybody, like, your actual self. Like, I am so good at just, like, putting on a mask or, like, being what somebody needs me to be.

Mentor Buffet Host (49:24)

Yeah.

Molly Seidel (49:24)

I think that that's where I developed the trust that this was going to be, like, a really deep friendship. When it was like, you experienced my mask and you saw through it, and then you kept, like, coming back and trying rather than being like, no, she has a lost cause. It was like, that you kept trying and each time, like, developing that trust, developing that trust, developing the trust. And, like, I think that's what really made the distance or, like, the difference of being able to trust over time. Like, oh, this is someone that I can show my full self to. She's not gonna, like, use it against me. Because I think there's always that fear. I think, especially amongst, like, female relationships, you're like, oh, like, if I give this person, like, the knowledge of who I am, are they gonna against me?

Mentor Buffet Host (50:03)

Yeah, because.

Molly Seidel (50:03)

Because I, I, I think that that's, like, a very, like, immature thing that, like, women will do. But I think, like, at a certain level, like, you learn, like, no, there are the people that I can fully trust. And I think that that is, like, the core of what female friendships are of being like, I'm just honest with you, and you see everything.

Mentor Buffet Host (50:22)

Yeah. And it's, will they use it against me? Kind of presses up against this thing of, like, I work, I. I need to take care of myself. Like, there's almost like a deep survival thing that gets triggered where you're like, don't. Like, this is great. But, like, if I let you in, like, you. Yeah. You don't want people to like, with your. Because, like, you worked hard to, like. And you've been, you know, like, you work hard to build the life you have, and you don't owe it to anybody. I think that's the other thing is, like, actually, I think our personality is a thing we develop because it's a tool that we use so that we don't always have to let everybody in. I think the personality is not a bad thing.

Molly Seidel (51:03)

No. And I don't think you ever could be, like. I don't think people can be, like, fully publicly open about who they are. Like, I think you do have, like, you have your interior self. And that's why I think it's really important to have those close friendships that you can be that too, but that you also, like, are able to be what you need to be to the outside world. I think it would almost be, like, too much.

Mentor Buffet Host (51:25)

Yeah.

Molly Seidel (51:26)

Like, to have no guard up against the outside world. That would be terrifying.

Mentor Buffet Host (51:31)

We were driving here and we were talking about, like, where your running is going. And essentially you said that it's going to go into the mysterious, infinite, expanded unknown or whatever that place was where you don't know where it's going.

Molly Seidel (51:46)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (51:47)

And it's sick. And I hope you protect that. You don't have to know where it's going because it almost feels like whenever you've had to know where something's going, that's where you go wrong. Like when you have these deadlines and these races and these.

Molly Seidel (51:59)

Or like, things that, like, maybe that's expectations to uphold.

Mentor Buffet Host (52:02)

Yeah.

Molly Seidel (52:03)

Where's. I think this is a really fun period where it is kind of just like, hey, it. Like, it could be any number of different things and I'm fully okay with any of the outcomes. Like, however it's. It pans out. I think that that's what I'm excited for of just, like, seeing where it ends up. Because it really, like, the thing with, like, marathon running, like, the goal was always Olympics and marathon running because there's like a very. Like, this is the end goal. Whereas I feel like trail is so much broader and creative and you can do so many more things with it that I think that's the fun part. It is less established of a sport. But I think that that growth. It feels like the growth of the sport mirrors, like, my own growth of like, it can go any number of ways. And that's where it's going to be fun to just see where it takes me.

Mentor Buffet Host (52:48)

It's so awesome. And it's kind of like your second life because you didn't see it coming.

Molly Seidel (52:53)

No, absolutely not. I think when I imagined what my. What my 30s would be like, I think I just imagined that I'd be doing the same. Two major marathons a year until the end of my career and blah, blah, blah, like, a very straight track of it. And this is, like, it's been a harder journey, but it's so much more fun. It's so much more interesting.

Mentor Buffet Host (53:15)

And you're seeing the world.

Molly Seidel (53:17)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (53:17)

Like, I love hearing about you building all these maps and, like, and being so healthy and, like, being in the sun. Like, there's so much. Well, because sometimes you just think about, like, what is my life right now? And you're like, oh, you're out there in the wilderness. Like, that's it.

Molly Seidel (53:32)

It really is like, the daily adventure of it. And it's like, that's kind of the person that I've always been. I think maybe it's that it's like, finally getting to be in a place where I'm like, oh, I get to do the things that I just always wanted to do as a kid. Like, I just want to be outdoors, adventuring. I want to be traveling the world. I want to be getting to run with, like, cool new people and, like, meeting people and I don't know, even just, like, getting to spend hours in my own head, like, kind of figuring out the person that I am, like, in real time. That's what I really enjoy about it.

Mentor Buffet Host (54:02)

That's really cool. That's good advice, too, for people to be, like, actually zoom out to. Like, how do you want your days to look like? Forget the job title.

Molly Seidel (54:10)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (54:11)

Or the goal title. Like, forget the, like, putting it down on paper like that. Put it instead. Think about, like, yeah. Like, what does it smell like? What are your. What are your mornings like? Like, where are you. Where are you spending all your time?

Molly Seidel (54:23)

Yeah.

Mentor Buffet Host (54:24)

And, like, then see if there happens to be, like, a way to do that, you know, which thankfully there is for you.

Molly Seidel (54:30)

I think the biggest thing for me, especially over this past year, is, like, don't be afraid to start something because you're worried you're going to fuck up, because you will up, but you'll do it anyway still. And I think of that, like, that is applied to so many different things in my life of just, like, I. I am naturally a bit of a perfectionist. Like, I've had to really break myself of that fact. But I feel almost this, like, hesitation to start things because I'm like, well, if I can't do it perfectly the first time, it's not worth doing. And I think that experience of just being like, you're never gonna be fully ready to start something, just be okay with knowing that, like, you will fuck up multiple times, probably in like, successively bigger and bigger ways over time. But that doesn't mean that you're not going to like, get somewhere good or that it can't end up good. Because I think we conflate messing up with like complete abject failure. And messing up is just a part of learning. Like, you have to mess up if you want to learn and get better. So I think it's that of like, whether it's in my trail running, whether it's in my relationship, whether it's in like even me finishing like my MBA or whatnot, it was just like, I fucked up so many times and it somehow still worked out because the messing up is the point.

Mentor Buffet Host (55:57)

That's great. Well, let's leave it at that. All right, everyone, that was Mentor Buffet. Thank you, Molly. I love you.

Molly Seidel (56:05)

I love you too.

Mentor Buffet Host (56:10)

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