In Greenland with Pippa Malmgren: Why the Arctic Is the New Geopolitical Battleground

Summary

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Merryn Talks Money: “In Greenland with Pippa Malmgren – Why the Arctic Is the New Geopolitical Battleground”

Date: January 26, 2026
Host: Merryn Somerset Webb (Bloomberg columnist)
Guest: Dr. Pippa Malmgren (Author & CEO, Geopolitica Institute)
Location: Dr. Malmgren joins live from Greenland

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Overview

In this episode, Merryn Somerset Webb delves into the rapidly shifting geopolitics of the Arctic with Dr. Pippa Malmgren, a high-profile geopolitical strategist. Broadcasting from Greenland, Dr. Malmgren explains why the Arctic—particularly Greenland—has emerged as a key geopolitical battleground, interlacing themes of independence, resource control, space warfighting, and the repositioning of superpowers. The discussion covers connections to Ukraine, ruptures within NATO, the real motives underlying U.S. and European strategies, market and investment implications, and the rapidly changing global landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Arctic’s New Role in Global Geopolitics

• The Ice Heats Up:
  • Dr. Malmgren highlights that, for years, she has predicted the Arctic would become central to geopolitics. This is now evident as international media descends on Greenland, though few actually engage with the Inuit population (03:03).
  • Quote: “You can't afford to look at things from a distance. You have to go and try to understand what is actually happening.” – Dr. Malmgren [02:00, 32:06]
• Greenland’s Perspective:
  • Inuit leaders want independence, not as a simple “for sale” proposition, but as sophisticated players: “We're not for sale, but we're open for a deal. We're not for sale, but we're open for business.” – Dr. Malmgren [04:38]

Geopolitics, Independence & Superpower Chess

• Greenland’s Viability:
  • Merryn questions the feasibility of full independence for Greenland, exposing financial and economic challenges.
    • Dr. Malmgren explains the Inuit see Denmark and the U.S. as relative newcomers and are negotiating from a place of resilience and pragmatism (05:28).
• Beyond Rare Earths:
  • Contrary to common belief, Greenland’s true geopolitical worth isn’t its rare earths, as refining is a polluting process locals are unlikely to accept. The real contest, she says, centers on control of the space race and data links (06:10–07:50).
• The Space Domain:
  • Control of Arctic ground stations is vital for satellite communication and national security. The U.S. wants sovereign control, especially if Norway tightens its hold on the critical Svalbard ground station (08:05).
    • “Space is the most important war fighting domain. This is the highest priority of the United States.” – Dr. Malmgren [12:08]
  • Rumors circulate that Greenland may be “split,” with the north de facto controlled by the U.S. for these reasons.

Ukraine, NATO, and Fracturing Alliances

• Ukraine as Chess Piece:
  • Dr. Malmgren connects Greenland’s fate with the Ukraine conflict, postulating that Trump is negotiating an end to the war with Russia and China, but European resistance (motivated by loan repayments and seized Russian assets) blocks peace (15:21).
    • “If there's a peace deal in Ukraine, they are very unlikely to get paid back what Ukraine owes them...If there's a peace deal, they will have to pay it back.” – Dr. Malmgren [15:21]
• Fracture Within NATO:
  • The U.S. is losing faith in European allies, whom it deems unreliable and subversive to American interests, as summarized by a Mark Carney quote about “the lie of mutual benefit through integration” (13:58).
  • Rising U.S. skepticism toward the international rules-based order is influencing defense postures and alliances.
  • Possible new geopolitical alignments: Britain and Canada opening overtures to China, while the U.S. considers reorienting toward Russia—a concept markets haven’t priced in yet (18:48).
    • “We're dealing with a rupture within NATO. This is not a transition, it's a rupture. And so this will become a big issue for the financial markets.” – Dr. Malmgren [18:48]

Markets & Investment Implications

• Investing in the New Geopolitics:
  • Merryn points to gold, defense stocks, and commodities as likely havens in the face of rising national sovereignty and defense spending (18:21).
  • Dr. Malmgren urges a nuanced perspective:
    • Consider diversification (gold, silver, bitcoin, stablecoins), depending on individual trust in algorithms vs. committees.
    • The rise of stablecoins and a more entrepreneurial U.S. ecosystem could break Wall Street’s monopoly on venture investing (34:12).
    • Silver is particularly interesting, given real-world industrial/tech demand—though future breakthroughs might soon allow its lab creation (34:12, 36:52).
  • “The era of armchair investing has been over for a while...you have to go and try to understand what is actually happening.” – Dr. Malmgren [32:06]

Demographics, War, and Technological Transformation

• China's Demographic Crisis:
  • Collapsing birth rates in China portend deep macro shifts (23:11). Dr. Malmgren argues that China, confronting demographic and economic strains, is more receptive to collaboration with the U.S. than confrontation (23:37).
    • “Are they really prepared to lose their one child in a conflict?” – Dr. Malmgren [23:37]
• Impact on Warfare:
  • Robotics and AI may replace humans on future battlefields, reducing the odds of mass ground wars as demographics shift, and making war an economic and tech race (26:19).
    • “If you have robots fighting robots, whoever runs out of 3D printing material first loses. Or batteries.” – Dr. Malmgren [26:19]
• Energy Revolution:
  • Advances in beaming solar energy from space and nuclear fusion—especially the quest for moon-mined helium-3—may end the era of resource-driven conflict, further transforming global dynamics (30:39–31:57).
    • “If you want to do nuclear fusion, you need helium 3, and if you want to do quantum computing, you need helium three. So the race to get to the moon and get it is on.” – Dr. Malmgren [31:57]

Final Wisdom & The Future of Investing

• Turning Chaos into Opportunity:
  • Dr. Malmgren encourages investors to move beyond “old mentalities,” see through chaos, and do deeper research. The skills of network-building and adaptability are now essential (32:06, 33:43).
    • “That is the magic trick that good investors engage in—to get past chaos.” – Dr. Malmgren [32:06]
• New Materials Revolution:
  • Advances like Google’s Willow chip enable the discovery of hundreds of thousands of new materials, making the creation of new matter and, potentially, wealth limitless (37:03).
    • “This is a revolution in the course of human history. It's literally an evolutionary leap.” – Dr. Malmgren [37:03]
• The Age of Extrapolation Is Over:
  • Merryn and Pippa agree: relying on the past as a guide for the future is obsolete in this era of rupture and technological leap (33:43).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Arctic’s Importance:
  • “I don't think you can understand Greenland as an issue by itself. It's in the context of a much, much bigger kind of geopolitical monopoly board.” – Dr. Malmgren [03:30]
• On U.S. Strategy:
  • “The era of armchair investing has been over for a while and it's partly why I'm in Greenland.” – Dr. Malmgren [01:26, 32:06]
• Space as a Battlefield:
  • “Space is the most important war fighting domain...the highest priority of the United States.” – Dr. Malmgren [12:08]
• On Markets Mispricing the Geopolitical Shift:
  • “This is a transformation of the geopolitical landscape that markets have not priced in, they have not thought about.” – Dr. Malmgren [18:48]
• On Demography and Modern War:
  • “We don't want humans on a battlefield...We're talking robotics, automation.” – Dr. Malmgren [26:19]
• On Star Wars vs. Star Trek Futures:
  • “There are two choices—Star wars or Star Trek. Star wars is where we go to war with people. Star Trek...is let's go to war with problems.” – Dr. Malmgren [28:12]
• On the Materials Revolution:
  • “Our capacity to create reality atom by atom by atom...this is a revolution in the course of human history.” – Dr. Malmgren [37:03]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:03] Introduction to Arctic geopolitics and Greenland’s role
• [05:28] The Inuit perspective on independence and business
• [06:10–07:50] Space race, ground stations, and Svalbard
• [08:05–11:46] Greenland’s strategic value and U.S.-European maneuvering
• [13:58] NATO, Mark Carney quote, U.S. attitude toward allies
• [15:21] Ukraine peace, European interests, and realpolitik
• [18:48] Market and investment implications of the NATO rupture
• [23:11] China’s demographic crisis and macro shifts
• [26:19] How robotics, AI dominate future warfare and energy security
• [30:39–31:57] Solar power from space; the race to helium-3
• [32:06] Turning chaos into opportunity as an investor
• [36:52] The coming materials revolution and lab-created materials

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Conclusion

Dr. Pippa Malmgren argues that the Arctic is at the heart of a seismic geopolitical realignment, impacting markets, investors, and the global strategic order. Instead of extrapolating from past trends, investors should now embrace research, adaptability, and an understanding of the rapid technological and political changes at play—from Greenland’s ground stations to China’s population collapse, from robotic warfare to the new material sciences revolution.

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For further reading and updates, follow Dr. Malmgren’s Twitter and expect more real-time insights from her unique vantage point on the ground in Greenland.

Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

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[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News if you've been following it, most of this is not a surprise. I've certainly been writing about this for some time and I think there are a number of people who have. But I guess investors, they they like to do things the way they used to. But my view is the era of armchair investing is has been over for a while and it's partly why I'm in Greenland because I think you can't afford to look at things from a distance.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Welcome to Marin Talks Money, the podcast in which the people who know the markets explain the markets. I'm Maren Sums up Webb and this week I am speaking with author and CEO of the Geopolitica Institute, Dr. Pippa Malgram. Pippa is one of our favorite guests. She's Adv prime ministers and presidents. And she's back I think for the second or third time on this podcast. She is also dialing in from Greenland. We're speaking to her on January 21st. Pippa, welcome to Marantalksmoney.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Oh thank you for having me. It's great to see you.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Okay, now I am excited because you are in Greenland.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

I am.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Which is astonishing because we do we have done nothing for the Last couple of days, except for talk about Greenland. But what we haven't had is a conversation with someone who is actually in Greenland now. You have always talked about the future being about hot wars in cold places, and I'm guessing that has something to do with why you are there. Tell me about it.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

I started writing about why the Arctic was taking a central position in global geopolitics in just around 2021, 2022. And what's amazing is now seeing all the cameras of the world focused on being inside the Arctic cir the streets here. Virtually every street corner has a journalist on it. But interestingly, I don't get the sense that many people are actually talking to the Greenlanders, which is why I'm here. So I'm speaking to the Inuit senior leaders to try to understand their positions. And it's very interesting and it's very different, I think, from what most people expect. First of all, we'll get to this, but I don't think you can understand Greenland as an issue by itself. It's in the context of a much, much bigger kind of geopolitical monopoly board, I would call it, where the superpowers are moving pieces around and swapping and trading. And so we'll come to why Greenland has a lot to do with Ukraine and some other issues, but in terms of its own merits, the Inuit are fundamentally of the opinion that they just want independence from all you guys. And they were on a track to independence with the Kingdom of Denmark when the President of the United States, in their view, kind of rudely interrupted things and has set the independence conversation back worse. Their view is they agree that the strategic security interests of Greenland obviously lie with the United States. But the culture here, and I can feel it when I go around, it's culturally very Danish and very European. And so they don't want to have to make a choice. So they're sort of, their message is, we're not for sale, but we're open for a deal. Right. We're not for sale, but we're open for business.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Okay. I mean, I suppose that's an important question because, you know, when we talk about the independence of Greenland, the Greenland's actually wanting to be an independent country that's impossible to finance as a standalone business. Right. I mean, that would require input from Europe somehow or the US somehow. It's not like you can suddenly declare independence and support yourself.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Right. So again, let's think of it this way. The Inuit have been here for tens of thousands of years. Their view is the Kingdom of Denmark and the United States are these recent constructs, newcomers that have pitch up on their shores. And one of the Arctic leaders said to me, all these superpowers want to be in the Arctic Circle, but let's see how long they last. In other words, they don't last up here because it's bloody freezing up here. It's hard to live here. And so these Greenlanders are very sophisticated, they're very clever, they're very savvy. And how do we get the best deal out of all these folks that are angling to be here? So then we can maybe come to the bigger picture, which, you know, a lot of commentary is about how this is all about the rare earth metals. I don't actually think that's right. I mean, yes, it has a value, but let's remember that there are rare earth metals all over the place. It's the refining that's the issue. And Greenland is not going to be excited about having the toxic refining process happen here. And yes, there are some particularly important rare earths here, like just dysprosium. Right. Things that people never heard of, but that's still, as you say, not enough for a business model. So what are the bigger issues? I say, number one, the space race. And we have to remember to do the space race, you need ground station links to satellites. The most effective location for that is the Arctic, which is why Svalbard in Norway, the long bearing ground station has such a high importance and right now it's surround by NATO ships guarding because it's so critical. It's like an umbilical cord from data in space to earth to the subsea cable network. But to do all that, there's a heavy emphasis on Arctic ground stations. So one reason you can see why the United States wants at least the north of Greenland is to have the space base there become a ground station, a more important ground station, because. Right. There's one single point of failure which is Svalbard.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

There is a Space Station, a U.S. space station. Oh no space station. A ground station on Greenland already.

[Host/Announcer]

Right.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

It's not, it's not. It's a military base. It's not aimed at data links the way that Svalbard is.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Right?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Yeah.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

But it can't be.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

That's a different thing. Yeah. And in the old days space stations were about launching stuff. In the new world you don't need to launch anything. I mean there's some launching that will happen, but a whole lot of construction, construction will happen in space. Now with self assembling self replicating 3D printers, so you don't have to go through the whole rocket business in the same way that we used to assume we had to. Okay, But I think there's something bigger still, which is what is happening in Ukraine. So. And again, these are like facets of a very complex puzzle. But so Trump's view is he is trying to cut a peace deal with Russia and negotiating it with China to bring the hostilities in Ukraine to an end. His feeling is the main opposition to getting to that deal are the Europeans. And the Europeans don't have the means to take on Russia. And they will have to, because this will metastasize beyond Ukraine if they persist in having the fight. Russia's made that clear. So the President Trump has said very clearly, okay, the United States is out. We don't want to be in that broader fight. If you guys want to have that fight, you can buy American weapons, but you know, we're not part of that. However, if you're going to do that, then Greenland becomes critical, because where would Russian nuclear capabilities show up? They would have to come through the Greenland, Iceland, UK gap, what's called the Duke Gap, which everybody's forgotten about now. But that was a huge deal during the Cold War. And so owning that space becomes vastly more important if the Europeans insist on continuing with the hostilities in Ukraine. And then I would add, controversially, the data links that we currently have at Svalbard. Svalbard is technically Norway, but it's controlled by an agreement, the Svalbard Treaty, which dates from around the time of the Turk Treaty of Versailles. So more than 40 countries have a right to be in Svalbard, including Russia, which is only 400 nautical miles away. So is there a chance that Norway would start to retake control of those data links to the disadvantage of the United States? Yes, we're starting to see press reports to that effect. Therefore, would the United States need to build its own independent data links to space? Yes. And where would you want to do that? Also inside the Arctic Circle. And remember, the US Only has only one other position in the Arctic Circle, which is in Alaska, which is too far away to track what comes through the Geok Gap. So this is why, and I'm going to emphasize there are rumors, and it's strictly rumors, but there's rumors that one possible deal is that that Greenland is actually, in a sense, split in half, partitioned in some way that allows the US to have a kind of total effective control without needing to consult anyone in the north. And the Kingdom of Denmark to remain in the south. Now, of course, I'm not saying it's a done deal. I'm not even saying it's a negotiating point. I'm just saying where it is. That's part of the conversation.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Okay, Pippa, a lot of people, when they look at what's happening in Greenland at the moment, or they look at Trump's comments on it, they say the US Already has the ability, based on the various treaties that are in existence at the moment to do whatever they want in Greenland.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

There's no problem here from a strategic security perspective.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

So why does the US need to own it rather than just continue to operate under those treaties?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

This is exactly my point. The one thing that I can think of that makes sense is if the Norwegians are going to exercise firm, firmer control over the Svalbard ground station and data links, then the US Would have to build its own. And to build its own, you don't want to be in a situation where you're sharing sovereignty with another European nation that could do the same. Again, you want to have your own independent control over data links to space. And remember, the Pentagon is crystal clear that space is the most important war fighting domain. So this is the highest priority of the United States to have real control over space as a war fighting domain. And that is why having a place you control becomes a priority. Now, nobody is spelling this out. I am explaining it because I happen to know a lot about the nature of space as a priority from a Pentagon perspective. And the data links being so limited to one location. And if you Google it, you will start to see press reports that the Norwegians are being beginning to take greater control of that data link. And personally, I think this may be the explanation behind that strange letter or note that President Trump sent regarding the Norwegians. Yes, you could read between the lines and say it's not actually about the Nobel Prize. What it's about is them exercising greater constraint over the Svalbard data link.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Okay, so a lot of this is really about the US Believing that all of its allies are unreliable.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Well, yeah, what's really fascinating is, let me just quote real quick from Mark Carney's speech from yesterday. It was really fascinating. He said, you cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination. Trump would say, exactly. That's exactly right. And the US had been subject to a subordination through the international rules based system that was no longer working to the advantage of the American public. And that is why he is stepping away from that rules based system. For Mark Carney, who represents the opposite view that the rules based system was the solution, although even he said yesterday that it was a fiction, a useful fiction. Either way, the bottom line is the US Position under this president is that the existing rule system has absolutely been working opposite to the interests of America's economy, America's citizens.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Can I just go back briefly? There's so many things I want to pick up, but I want to go back very briefly to a peace in the Ukraine and Trump's idea that the only people who don't wanted the Europeans. Will you just break that down for us a bit?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Right. Well, I mean, I think if you've been tracking it, you can see that there was progress being made both with China and Russia coming to some kind of agreement that certain parts of Ukraine were fundamentally Russian and could be returned or in some kind of Russian oversight situation versus the rest of Ukraine that isn't and doesn't want to be part of Russia. So back to this concept of a partition, of a drawing a line of a kind of a North South Korea kind of discussion. The Europeans across the board have been completely opposed. And I mean, there's so many comments, it's not hard to track this. And the White House has been like, why? Why do you guys want to keep this going? Well, I must say my own theory is that it's not on its own merits. It's the fundamental problem for the Europeans is if there's a peace deal in Ukraine, they are very unlikely to get paid back what Ukraine owes them. And not only that, but the confiscation of the Russian assets by European nations, they thought they'd never have to pay that back. But if there's a peace deal, they will have to pay it back, which is why there's been a kerfuffle in Brussels over the handling of those Russian sanctioned assets. And so a question is, do Europeans think that the hole that would be created by a peace deal is so significant that they can't afford a peace deal? Is that a possibility? And I think more and more Washington thinks that's what's driving this, especially since the Europeans don't have the finances or the means, although they are saying they do, but kind of everybody goes, they don't really have the finances or the means to really properly handle what Russia would represent as a threat.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

No. Okay. And another part of this, presumably what's going on here is the US Wanting to make sure that Europe really, really does push up defense spending and develop the capability to defend themselves without having to rely on the US Constantly. And so maybe a lot of the conversation around Greenland, et cetera, is connected to that too.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

I would agree completely. It's certainly it's a leverage to compel. And I would say Trump will view it as even more than a crowbar. He will also view this as a way of getting it into the headlines all over Europe that the leadership of Europe would prefer to ramp up the conflict with the Russians than to calm it down because then the public become involved.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

So what does this, what does this all mean? What does it mean for markets, for investors, for the future? And when I look at it, I think, well, okay, I'm going to be wanting some gold, I'm going to be wanting some more defense stocks and I'm going to start thinking there might be a commodity super cycle ahead if everyone's want step, you know, bring back their sovereignty, rebuild their domestic industries, rebuild their defense industries, all this type of, type of thing that seems where it's going to go. Right.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

So I'm going to say this very carefully. I think what we have to consider now is the possibility that Mark Carney is right, that we're dealing with a rupture within NATO. This is not a transition, it's a rupture. And so this will become a big issue for the financial markets. And you know me, I am normally an optimist, I always see the silver lining. But this is something that the markets had not anticipated. And let me go further. Already Britain, Canada are saying we're going with the Chinese. Right? Canada has already said we are open for business. A year ago Mark Carney said China was the problem. Today he says China is the answer in Britain already a closer alliance with the Chinese. And it's demonstrable in so many different ways, including, well, the new embassy. Embassy, right. So then the US Is going to be like, right? You're not only not my ally, you are aligning with our, let's say not opponent because the US has been downgrading China as an opponent, but none nonetheless an entity the US has strategic security issues with. So this is a transformation of the geopolitical landscape that markets have not priced in, they have not thought about.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Maren Sums up Webb]

Of China, can I just shift our conversation slightly because it seems to me that one of the most important numbers that have come out this weekend. There's a lot of important stuff going on this week. There's Davos, there's Greenland, there's, you know, what's going on in the Japanese bond market, etc. But there's also been a number under 8 million. The number of births in China last year.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

So the number of births in China has absolutely collapsed. I mean, way faster than anyone expected. And the demographic change around the world is faster, more shocking than I think any forecasts expected. This is not really related to our previous conversation, but it still seems to me to be another massive thread in macro conversations. Do you look at that at all?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

That's related to the larger question of what is the true condition of the Chinese economy right now. And I have argued for some years now that I think it's in worse shape than we acknowledge. And I do think that the Communist Party in China has been more open to having a dialogue and discussion with Trump on the grounds that, that they're not really in a great place to enter a conflict with the United States. And let's face it, they had a one child policy for so long. Are they really prepared to lose their one child in a conflict? Plus, these days the conflict isn't. It won't be like in Ukraine. This would be super high tech and so massively destructive that neither China nor the United States wants to go down that road. Which is why they've been talking about what more collaborative things could we do to. Basically, Trump's message to the Chinese is we have two choices. We can go to war, it's going to be ugly, messy, expensive, or let's go back to making money. Can we just figure out how to get these peace deals into place so that we can renormalize both China and Russia in the world economy? And there's a receptivity to that in Beijing that especially because, remember, this is the only president they're ever going to have probably and they ever have had that is willing to negotiate over Taiwan. And his position on Taiwan is we're moving all the chip production to Arizona and Texas, so 10 years from now, the vulnerability won't be there. And not only that, we think China is not doing so well because it needs to be more like Taiwan. So we could do a deal if China were to become more like Taiwan, but not if Taiwan has to become more like China. And of course the Chinese are like, it's our own domestic decision. And they're quite right about that. So you can't force this. You can't impose that on them. But what conclusions are they reaching themselves about their economic future? Is probably that they do need to be more like Taiwan in order to be competitive and viable in a modern world economy.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Okay, interesting. Can I just pick up on something? You said that I had not thought about this before, but might it be that falling fertility rates, changing demographics make the odds of a hot ground war in Europe, or indeed anywhere else, significantly less likely than in the past?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Yes. The only thing you have to add this proviso, which is Elon gave a speech at West Point, I think it was in February last year, where he was asked, what is your advice about managing. Managing humans on the battlefield? And he said, my advice is to keep humans well away from the battlefield, because drones with AI will target your heart and you will be dead before you hear it. So we don't want humans on a battlefield. So what does that mean? That means we're talking robotics, automation. Now, if you have robots fighting robots, first of all, how do you win? And the answer is, whoever runs out of 3D printing material first loses. Or batteries. Or batteries. Right. Or power now. Power. What just happened? The US Just did a very interesting foreign policy maneuver in Venezuela where they did not do regime change. They kept the regime while removing the leader, but. But sent a clear message that Venezuela cannot control its oil sales anymore. The US Controls the tap, which has a subliminal message to China. We will protect your right to buy oil from Venezuela, but if you want to go to war with the United States, we'll turn it off. Right. So can China even opt for a war, given that they don't have energy and they don't have food supplies? So, again, Trump doesn't want to humiliate anyone. But if we want to bring China into a better place with a better future, and I think it's true for the United States as well. Right. Which is going to get us to a better future faster? Going to a conventional war or finding diplomatic resolutions that let us all go back to doing business and making money again? So it's not specific and it's not aimed at China. It's more a kind of universal principle. And I kind of describe it as there are two choices. Star wars or Star Trek. Star wars is where we go to war with people. Star Trek, which is what everybody seems to be leaning towards, is let's go to war with problems. Let's use supercomputing and AI and all our new capabilities to just keep solving problems so we can grow food better, faster, can find rare earth materials and convert them with less toxic processes, et cetera, et cetera. And honestly, I don't see why the superpowers will opt for Star wars in this environment.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

The big risk here is between Europe and Russia. It seems from what you're saying, that's where things might go wrong because the wrong choices will be made.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Yeah. But also, could we start to see as a strange alignment between China and the Europeans and Russia and the United States then? That's a completely different geopolitical configuration than anybody's really thought through. And notice that again, Trump is trying to build a kind of parallel structure to the United Nations. Right now. There's huge skepticism about, about his new peace board, but basically he's anticipating that this is a real possibility once Canada, Britain, France are inviting China to be their partner, which they do seem to be, and at the same time preparing to take on Russia. And let's not forget, China's moving into the east of Russia very, very quickly now. And Russia had only recently announced that it's dropping the visa requirement for Chinese and Indian nationals because they want the east developed, they want investment, they want the high speed rail, they want the ports. So understanding what's happening to the Chinese Russian relationship becomes central to our understanding of the future.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Now, one of the other things that you mentioned earlier in the podcast is energy and the Japanese experiments, it shows that it is possible to beam energy, energy direct from solar panels in space to Earth. Now, this doesn't solve our problem with the grid. Obviously, everyone's electricity grids still need to be upgraded, but it certainly solves our problem with intermittent renewable energy. Right. And that could bring in a great age of energy abundance. And if we can stop fighting over energy, things could get better globally anyway.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Well, I agree with that. And I would add to the picture that we seem to be making incredibly fast progress on nuclear fusion. Part of the reason that Trump has appointed Jared Isaacson to be the administration administrator of NASA is because of his vision that we need to convert NASA from being a scientific research organization into being an operational organization that is aiming at getting to the energy supply on the moon, which is helium 3. Now, there's some helium 3 on Earth, there's quite a bit in Minnesota, for example. And now we can more and more create it in a lab as well. But bottom line is if you want to do nuclear fusion, you need helium 3, and if you want to do quantum computing, you need helium three. So the race to get to the moon and get it is on Pippa.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Everything that looks chaotic to Everybody else to a lot of other people, to you, looks rational, straightforward.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

I see an opportunity to turn what appears to be chaos into opportunity. And I think that is what we do in markets. That is the magic trick that good investors engage in is to get past its chaos, because that means you're stuck in an old mentality. And also it means people have not been following geopolitics very closely. They just didn't think it was important or they didn't know how to discount it. But if you've been following it, most of this is not a surprise. I've certainly been writing about this for some time and I think there are a number of people who have. But I guess investors, they like to do things the way they used to. But my view is the era of armchair investing has been over for a while. And it's partly why I'm in Greenland, because I think you can't afford to look at things from a distance. You have to go and try to understand what is actually happening. It's why I'm involved in tech, so that I get a front row seat on what is actually happening in this field. Build networks of people that can inform you. So I think getting more involved, even for your retail community of investors who say, well, I can't just hop to Greenland, or even if I did, I don't know anybody there. Nonetheless, their ability to do deep research now, because the Internet is available to us, is there. It's just people don't do it because they think, oh, I'll just park my money in the pension and I'm good. But I'm not so sure that works anymore.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Yeah, the age of extrapolation is over, right?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

But, you know, they don't have to go and do all that, Pippa, because they've got you, they've got you and they've got the Marin Talks Money podcast to explain all this stuff. And we are very, very grateful. Listen, one last question for you because I know you want to get back to Greenland, which is a lot more interesting than talking to me, hedging against the risks of everything going horribly wrong. Do you do that with gold? Do you do it with silver? Do you do it with a portfolio of metals? Do you do it with bitcoin?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

I first of all take the view that there isn't one answer that applies to everybody, because it depends, A, what are you already long? And B, what are your actual skills? So I think one question is, which do you trust more? A committee of people or algorithms for people who prefer Outsourcing decision making to algorithms. They're going to lean into Bitcoin, they're going to lean into stablecoin points for people who trust, committees of people they prefer, having the Fed making decisions about the value of money and interest rates and all that stuff. So that's a fundamental question. Where do you stand on that issue? Another is, are you going to just stay in the traditional assets or try to anticipate what's coming? So I've been very interested in stablecoins in the United States because I think that Scott Bessant, our Secretary of the treasury, sees this as a way of widening the pathway for capital to reach new venture founders. In other words, he's saying, we don't need one Elon Musk. We need thousands of them. We need new entrepreneurs to be able to get liquidity and capital so they can build and create whatever it is they're creating. So stablecoins are a way of breaking the lock that Wall street has had on who gets. And they give money to very few people, and they only give it to unicorns. Scott Bessant's like, well, what about a half a unicorn? What about a quarter unicorn? Those are still very important businesses for the economy. So I'm interested in stablecoins, not because I think that every single one of them will be successful, but because the philosophy behind it tells me the US Is finding ways to get more entrepreneurs, government going, and some of them will fail, but more of them will succeed. So I think these philosophical questions you have to answer first before you get to, yeah, what commodity am I going to buy? Silver is interesting because it's needed for actual industrial operations and technology. You can't do electric vehicles without silver, for example. So silver has a real demand, and we can't yet create it in a lab. Although I'm betting that we will be able to create silver and gold in a lab in pretty short order, given supercomputing and AI. Right. Alchemy. Alchemy is starting now.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

It's already possible. I mean, I'm told it is already possible to create gold in a lab, but it is so phenomenally expensive that we can't touch it yet. But the price of gold goes up, you know, who knows?

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

Exactly. Look, we're in a new materials revolution where the new Willow changes chip from Google has already allowed the discovery of over 380,000 new materials and 2 million new crystals. So our capacity to create reality atom by atom by atom and build new materials in this way, this is a revolution in the course of human history. It's literally an evolutionary leap. And so is investing going to change because of this?

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Yes.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes.

[Dr. Pippa Malgram]

I come back to that Star Trek where you start to be able to create whatever you want just by imagining it. Because now you can literally paint reality into being with atoms and electrons.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Yeah. Yeah. Peppa, thank you. Thank you so much. That was absolutely fascinating and hugely, hugely valuable. And I think we're all quite envious of you being on the ground in Greenland and seeing what it's like and we hope that we will hear more about it at a later point. We will be keeping a very close eye on your Twitter account to see what you're seeing and what you're seeing and what you you're saying.

[Host/Announcer]

Wonderful.

[Maren Sums up Webb]

Thanks for listening to this week's Marin Talks Money. If you like our show, rate, review and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts and keep sending questions or comments to meron moneyloomburg.net you can also follow me and John on Twitter or X. I'm Erinsw and John is JohnStepek. This episode was hosted by me Marin's Umsetweb. It was produced by Sama Saadi and Moses Andam. Sound designed by Blake Maples, Aaron Kaspersky and Kelly Gary. Special thanks to Dr. Pippa Mangram. Of course.

[Host/Announcer]

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