What Reform Plans to Do If It Takes Over the UK with Richard Tice

Summary

Podcast Summary: Merryn Talks Money

Episode Title: What Reform Plans to Do If It Takes Over the UK with Richard Tice
Host: Merryn Somerset Webb (Bloomberg)
Guest: Richard Tice (Deputy Leader, Reform UK)
Date: February 11, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a timely conversation between host Merryn Somerset Webb and Richard Tice, Deputy Leader of Reform UK. Against a backdrop of political upheaval and the potential early exit of Prime Minister Keir Starmer, Tice outlines what his party would do if it were to win power, focusing on concrete economic and structural reforms for the UK. The discussion is forthright, practical, and peppered with Tice’s signature bluntness on how Britain is “broken” and what immediate steps Reform UK would take to “fix” it.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Political Context and Reform UK’s Readiness

• Likelihood of Early Election:
  • Tice believes an early general election is increasingly likely due to “some form of financial crisis.” (05:35)
    • Quote: “Everything since then, all of the data is bad, the borrowing levels are through the roof, there’s no growth, job numbers are dire, and then you've got a management crisis at the top of government.” (05:35)
  • Reform UK is preparing for government, organizing “seven working groups” on key economic areas.
    • Quote: “I've got seven working groups in different areas… financial governance and regulation, pensions and savings, SME growth capital and taxation.” (06:34)
• Cutting Teeth in Local Government:
  • Their experience running twelve local councils is building management capability and practical knowledge.
    • Quote: “We’re cutting our teeth... liaise every week closely with our leaders and in a sense that is giving us some really good experiences...” (08:55)

2. Overhauling the Civil Service and Government Management

• Business-Minded Governance:
  • Tice criticizes the dominance of policy “wonks” and special advisers, arguing that Reform UK will offer “serious business people with a track record of running businesses.”
    • Quote: “We’re just tougher, we’re stronger... we’ve got a much clearer principled view in our gut, in our heart, as to what needs to be done to create growth.” (07:20)
• Shifting Decision-Making:
  • Emphasizes ministers as decisive, stating: “advisors advise and ministers should decide, not advisors.” (07:45)
• Consequences and Risks:
  • Asserts that taking calculated risks is essential to drive value and growth. (08:12)

3. Immediate Actions If Elected

• Fast-Track Policy Moves:
  • ECHR and Human Rights Act:
    • Immediate notice to leave the European Convention on Human Rights and abolish the Human Rights Act to stop “lawfare” and governmental paralysis. (09:59)
  • Scrapping Net Zero:
    • Calls net zero “the most catastrophic policy of financial self harm.” (09:59)
    • Energy Bills Impact:
      • Predicts energy bills would drop rapidly, citing high carbon taxes and levies as the main culprit in expensive domestic energy.
      • Quote: “All of the carbon taxes and levies... form the majority now of people's domestic energy bills... change to their energy bills... cut wasteful spending immediately, cut daft regulations...” (10:52)
  • Immigration Reform:
    • Would “restrict legal immigration to a net zero number” and stop paying welfare to overseas nationals. (11:58, 12:29)
      • Quote: “People come to the UK to work. Well, the clue's in the name work. So we wouldn't be paying welfare on that.” (12:29)

4. Net Zero and UK Manufacturing

• Economic Rationale for Scrapping Net Zero:
  • Argues that cheap energy is the foundation of a rich nation, drawing contrasts with US growth. (15:48)
  • Quote: “You cannot be a rich nation without cheap energy. There’s a reason the US is growing at 3.5–4% a year. And we’re flatlining. We've got the most expensive energy, electricity in the world.” (15:48)
• Impact on Industry:
  • Tice claims energy bills for manufacturers could drop by “give or take a third over two years.” (15:48)
  • Responds to critics by questioning the real value of “green jobs” and suggesting many are reclassified, not created. (17:07)
    • Quote: “They're desperate when they have to redesignate plumbers and carpenters as green jobs...” (17:07)
  • Warns about UK industry suffering under current auto-import policies, particularly Chinese EVs. (16:28)

5. Tax Policy and Fiscal Reform

• Laffer Curve Principle:
  • Affirmed support for lower taxes to stimulate economic growth; host and guest agree. (17:47)
• Scottish Tax Policy:
  • Reform UK advocates for Scottish competition via lower income tax rates than England, echoing host’s belief Scotland could “become the richest country... in Europe extremely quickly by slashing income tax well below that in the rest of the UK.” (18:53)
    • Quote: “Tax competition is also a good thing. So why not have that competitive edge and tension?” (18:18)
• Reform’s Growing Popularity in Scotland:
  • Tice asserts Reform UK is now the main alternative to the SNP, with local polling gains. (19:21–19:53)
  • Clarifies the party is “120% a unionist party.” (20:24)

6. Capital Markets and Innovation

• Concerns Over UK Stock Market:
  • Tice promises focus on the declining UK stock market, SME funding, IPO drought, and excessive FCA regulations. (21:13–21:27)
    • Quote: "Why are IPOs down 80% in the last decade? Why is the FCA impinging on so many areas that it doesn't need to?" (21:27)
• Capital Gains Tax and Crypto:
  • Reform UK proposes to make the UK a “crypto hub” and potentially lower capital gains tax on crypto to “attract and retain talent.” (23:36–24:03)
    • Quote: “Let’s make it easy, cheap, transparent, tax attractive...” (23:36)
  • Suggests interest in lowering capital gains tax “on everything... it’s just a case of timing and scale.” (24:21)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Cutting the Civil Service Knot:
  • “Advisors advise, directors decide, and in politics, advisors advise and ministers should decide, not advisors.” (07:45)
• On Scrap Net Zero and Energy Prices:
  • “We would scrap Netstupid zero, which is the most catastrophic policy of financial self harm voluntarily imposed on the nation by Westminster politicians.” (09:59)
  • “You cannot be a rich nation without cheap energy.” (15:48)
• On UK Immigration Policy:
  • “We would build the welfare bill down by basically not paying welfare to any overseas nationals... People come to the UK to work. Well, the clues in the name work.” (12:29)
• On UK Stock Market Health:
  • “We need to make it simpler, easier and more attractive for people to want to stay here. So I’m very, very focused on it indeed.” (21:13)
• On Bitcoin and Talent Attraction:
  • “Let’s bring it onshore... make it easy. Cheap, transparent, tax attractive.” (23:36)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:43] – The likelihood of Starmer’s exit and the urgency of Reform UK's readiness
• [05:35] – The increasing odds of an early election and Reform UK’s preparations
• [07:20] – Why Reform UK is different: from policy “wonks” to business-minded governance
• [08:55] – Lessons learned running local councils
• [09:59] – What would happen immediately if Reform UK won: ECHR, Net Zero, immigration
• [10:52] – Energy prices, carbon taxes, pledges to cut bills and regulations
• [11:58] – Immigration and the welfare system overhaul
• [15:48] – Net Zero and energy: claimed price reductions, impact on manufacturing
• [17:47] – Laffer Curve, tax philosophy, and Scottish tax policy
• [21:13] – Worries about the UK stock market and possible reforms
• [23:36] – Crypto policy, capital gains tax, and financial innovation

---

Tone and Language

The conversation is forthright and pragmatic, with both Merryn Somerset Webb and Richard Tice maintaining a tone that is direct but curious. Tice is especially bold, sometimes populist, and unafraid of controversy when discussing policies around Net Zero, energy, and civil service reform. Merryn’s style is probing and insightful, pushing for specifics and challenging statements with nuanced questions.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode provides a comprehensive, candid picture of what Reform UK would seek to prioritize if ushered into Downing Street—immediate withdrawal from the ECHR, abolishing net zero targets, radical changes to energy and immigration policy, and strong support for a freer, more competitive UK stock market. Tice frames these ideas in the language of business efficiency, quick wins, and a willingness to challenge established political orthodoxies. The show offers a robust preview of what a post-Starmer UK might look like under Reform UK—and is required listening for anyone interested in UK economics, political disruption, or the intersection of policy and markets.

Transcript

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[Richard Tice]

Bloomberg.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Audio Studios podcasts radio news Maritalk's Money listeners here is a quick Public Servers announcement before we get into today's conversation. Are you a Bloomberg subscriber? If you are not, you should be and here is why. You will get ad free episodes of this podcast and access to my Maring Talks Money newsletter as well as access to John's award winning newsletter Money Distilled. You'll also get access to subscriber only events such as the one that we will be hosting on March 17th. More details on that later this week, so be sure to sign up for your.com subscription so that you can join us and of course, on top of all that, you will get unlimited access to bloomberg.com and to the Bloomberg app, including exclusive stories and premium market tools. Subscribe [e-mail] podcast or offer. Welcome to Marant Talks Money, the podcast in which people who know the markets explain the markets. I'm Maren Sumset Webb. Today I am speaking with Richard Tice, British businessman and deputy leader of the poll leading party Reform uk. Given that the top story in the UK at the moment is whether or not Keir Starmer will be Prime Minister for much longer, we thought it would make sense to speak to someone crafting the policies of the oppos opposition party leading in the polls right now. So I spoke to Richard about what Reform UK would do for the UK economy if the party was elected into government. What are the party's actual policies and do they have real plans to see those policies through? Richard, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Richard Tice]

Great pleasure. Good to be with you. It's an exciting time.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Oh, isn't it just now? Listen, we are speaking just as it becomes increasingly clear that time might be relatively short for Keir Starmer. How long do you think he's got?

[Richard Tice]

He'll be lucky to have weeks, frankly, but there's lots of speculation that it's just a matter of days. I mean, his sort of key prop has resigned and information is leaking out more and more about the role that Mandelson played in the heart of Starmer's regime, essentially, not only in the run up to being US Ambassador, but also in the run up to the general election. What role did he play in appointing ministers? Was he actually at the heart of government?

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Well, do you know what? Everyone else is going to be talking about that, so we're not going to. We're going to talk about you, which I'm sure you would prefer anyway. Now, all change. It's entirely possible there are various different moving parts all over the place. It's entirely possible we'll end up with an election much sooner than many would have expected. And I suppose the real question then is how ready is reform? Should that, should it come to that? Should you possibly win an election sooner than you would expect to? How ready are you? We talk a lot about how Britain is broken. Everyone knows what the problems are, or everyone has some kind of level of consensus about what the main problems are in the uk. And everyone also now has a feeling that they are close to unfixable. So to start to govern, the first thing that you would need to do is to completely fix, reform, overhaul the civil service and management in the public sector across the board in order to actually get any of your policies through in the amount of time that reflects the level of patience that electorates have these days. How would that work?

[Richard Tice]

Well, we've been talking for months about the likelihood of an early general election. We'd been saying from sort of autumn 27 onwards, goods. And so we've been sort of preparing ourselves and we've been saying the reason that it's most likely to be triggered is some form of financial crisis. Everything since then, all of the data is bad, the borrowing levels are through the roof, there's no growth, job numbers are dire, and then you've got a management crisis at the top of government. So in terms of the likelihood of an early election, that has increased dramatically. Whether it's likely this year in 2026, that still would be relatively low odds, but the likelihood of a 2027 election has soared dramatically. We will be ready. We're getting ready. And there's sort of lots of speculation, but, you know, we'll be confirming sort of likely shadow cabinet roles over the coming next few weeks and there's. There's a huge amount going on. I've got. I've got seven working groups in different areas in financial markets. I gave a speech at Bloomberg in November about setting up working groups in financial governance and regulation, in pensions and savings, SME, growth capital and taxation. So there's lots of work going on through 2026 to ensure that we are ready for government as and when an election comes.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Yeah, but everything that you've just said, that's about policies, that's about what do we want to do, what would be the right thing to do. And I think, you know, we'll move on to that in a minute. But what I'm really trying to get to is how do you get those policies through? Because government after government after government arrives says, we're going to do this, this is how it's going to be, and it never is.

[Richard Tice]

But you see the difference is that recently, governments have been run by what I would call ppe, sort of policy wonks and special advisors, as opposed to serious business. People with a track record of running businesses, growing businesses, making money for shareholders and investors. We're different, we're just tougher, we're stronger, and we've got a much clearer principled view in our gut, in our heart, as to what needs to be done to create growth. And. And that's the difference. And bluntly, as we're getting grips with running 12 councils. We're cutting our teeth. Look, is it easy? No, we're not saying it is. Does it require courage and some resilience? Yes, and we've got that in spades. And I think the, the establishment, the civil service, actually, quietly, many of them know that Britain is broken and would welcome some strong, determined ministers coming in who remember that key maxim in the corporate world, at the end of the day, advisors advise, directors decide, and in politics, advisors advise and ministers should decide, not advisors. And we understand that. And I think that would be a sizable shift. At the end of the day, the biggest risk in life is never taking one risk. Calculated and then smartly monitored is a good thing. That's how you create value, that's how you create growth and that's what we need to do to run a country.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

And you've begun to learn how hard that is in your local council experiences.

[Richard Tice]

We have. I mean, we're seeing how some officers have been very professional, very supportive and other officers less so, and we spot that. But in a sense, that's a good way of cutting our teeth. And I'm the head of doge across those councils, so I liaise every week closely with our leaders and in a sense that is giving us some really good experiences to the do's, the don'ts, the tips and so on. And obviously we've got May elections across, across much of England, Wales and Scotland on the 7th of May, we'll have thousands of seats and we're going to win lots more councils.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Going back to the impatience of electorates these days, you don't get much time. If there were an election, if you're in pretty quickly, what would be the one or two things that you could do immediately? Immediate implementation that would show change. What could really work fast?

[Richard Tice]

Yeah. So we would immediately serve notice to leave. The European Convention on Human Rights would scrap the Human Rights Act. That would stop the law fair, stop the blockages. We would scrap Netstupid zero, which is the most catastrophic policy of financial self harm voluntarily imposed on the nation by Westminster politicians. And that would be a seismic shift in the way politics has been done for the last decade and more. And then what that would do is enable energy bills to come down rapidly and we would cut significant other wasteful government spending.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Can I interrupt you there? And go back to net zero and how it would cut bills quickly because of course, all the contracts that exist are, you know, legally permanent. Right. They're not going away. So all those, all the CFD payments et Cetera, they're set in stone, they're expensive.

[Richard Tice]

But what's not set in stone. Yeah, but what's not set in stone is all of the carbon taxes and levies that form the majority now of people's domestic energy bills, be they gas or electric. And we would be, I'm already talking to which I've spoken about openly, oil and gas producers and explorers about completely changing the regime so that they are welcome as opposed to treated as pariahs. But in terms of what individuals voters would see, they would see a change to their energy bills, they would see a seismic shift in the way that we are, are running things. And as I say, we would cut wasteful spending immediately, cut daft regulations. Then you can afford what I call performance related tax cuts. Look, people will understand that you can't. You know, Rome's not built in a day. You can't fix everything overnight. But the direction of travel, the big shift where you're not in hock to an overseas court with biased judges, that would be significant. Our policies on immigration would I think also be a significant shift in terms of restricting legal immigration to a net zero number and ensuring that actually we do have a proper detain and deport policy immediately that dramatically reduces the attractiveness of illegally breaking into our country across.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

The English Channel and cancelling the ilr. Right. So not all residency has an automatic path to citizenship.

[Richard Tice]

Correct.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Which is what makes you think would bring the welfare bill down significantly?

[Richard Tice]

Well, we would build the welfare bill down by basically not paying welfare to any overseas nationals. I mean the whole point about immigration is people come to the UK to work. Well, the clues in the name work. So we wouldn't be paying welfare on that. And, and we've got to motivate work. We've got to make work pay.

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[Maren Sumset Webb]

Back to Net Zero can you give me any sense and we're obsessed with energy prices on this podcast. Obsessed with them because we believe, quite rightly as I think everybody does. Well, I think it's just that we believe that all economic activity, indeed all economic activity of any kind, is energy transformed, right? So the cheaper energy is, the more economic activity you get. We're very worried about UK manufacturing, chemicals, et cetera, et cetera. So how fast and how much can you give me a percentage number for a small chemicals factory that might have to shut down soon? What percentage can would scrapping net zero get their bill down over a one or two year period?

[Richard Tice]

Over a two year period. I think they would see it come down by give or take a third. I mean just as a without question. And I will be and we will be totally focused on that because the simple maxim is you cannot be a rich nation without cheap energy. And there's a reason the US is growing at three and a half to 4% a year. And we're flatlining. We've got the most expensive energy, electricity in the world. And let's just go back 20 years ago. No one was talking about the price of electricity or that we might have rationing or blackouts. Now. It's one of the first things on the agenda in any boardroom. And you know, we've also got to look at protecting British industry. I'll be talking a lot about that over the coming months. And is it really a good idea to allow the UK automotive scene to be completely and utterly dominated by Chinese EVs, heavily subsidized and put at risk half a million jobs in the automotive sector in the uk? I would suggest not.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

There is a lot of talk from people who support net zero strongly about the number of jobs that will be lost across the board were you to cancel net zero. But I suspect you would say that easily balanced out by the rise of manufacturing jobs.

[Richard Tice]

I mean the, the destruction of manufacturing jobs is way, way more than the paucity of green jobs that are supposedly being created. And you know, they're desperate when they have to redesignate plumbers and carpenters as green jobs in order to try and boost their numbers. I mean, the thing is, it's just ridiculous. And do you know, I travel around the world quite a bit and many other countries are laughing at our naive stupidity as our politicians bang on about being a world leader in net zero. And they say, thanks very much, we'll take your jobs, we'll take your, your money and we'll sell you some lots of gas and oil. Thank you.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Can I move on to asking about taxes? I know you're a believer in the Laffer curve and I think we are here too. We've even had Arthur Laffer on the podcast and done a great pod with him about things. And I know that there are quite a lot of tax cuts that you have discussed on getting rid inheritance tax, all this kind of thing. But can I just move you over to Scotland where there is a plan, I understand it, to were reformed to come into power in Scotland. A practice election coming up to cut income tax in Scotland below levels of England, is that right?

[Richard Tice]

Well, Scotland has a freedom to adjust its income tax, which the SNP used to raise income tax above the rest of the uk. Look, competition's a good thing. All of your listeners, I suspect, believe in that. And tax competition is also a good thing. So why not have that competitive edge and tension? Great. If it forces people to stop wasting taxpayers cash on daft schemes, whether it's in Scotland or elsewhere in the uk, fantastic. I mean, policies will emerge, but we believe in competition, why not?

[Maren Sumset Webb]

But in Scotland, the only way probably for reform to get the ability to test that policy of which I thoroughly approved, by the way. I've always thought that Scotland could become the richest country or nation, whatever you like to call it, in, in Europe extremely quickly by slashing income tax well below that in the rest of the uk. But the only way for reform to get into a position where they can make that happen would probably to make a deal with the Tories to stop the SNP getting in again on a relatively small percentage of the vote.

[Richard Tice]

Well, the truth is the Tories are disappearing in Scotland. In fact, post May 7, they're not really going to be a national party. And so our message to voters, if you, if you want to stop the snp, the only party to vote for is reform. We're polling second in Scotland already. And when I went to Scotland about a year ago now and the friendly Scottish media said, what's your policy? I said drill, Scotland, drill. And they said you can't say that, that's outrageous. And turns out it's actually rather popular.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Rather popular.

[Richard Tice]

The good common sense of the Scottish voters are polling soared and we've been on an upward trend ever since and very, very nearly won the, the Hamilton MSP bar election a few months back.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

But are you really a Unionist party or a separatist party? I was thinking when I listened to Nigel Farish talking about Scotland, a little wobbly on this, quite keen to see the end of the Barnett formula and maybe full fiscal devolution. But there's also sometimes a hint there that he's not really interested in whether Scotland stays part of the UK or not.

[Richard Tice]

That's nonsense. We are absolutely 120% a unionist party, full throated and there is no better flag than the Union flag. It's as simple as that. And we are, to use that old expression, we are stronger together as a united Kingdom.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Okay, let's stick with full throated support for various things. What about the UK stock market which is our other major obsession here? We worry about its shrinkage, we worry about its low valuations, we worry about the loss of the extraordinary financial network that we have in London and indeed in Edinburgh. And that's slowly wasting away as the stock market wastes. Wastes away. So one thing that we are very keen to see happen almost immediately on any competent government getting into power would be the abolition involve of stamp duty. I wondered where you stood on that.

[Richard Tice]

Well, we're very focused on the UK stock market. It's dear to our hearts and you'll be hearing a lot more from me about that in the coming months of that. I Can assure you. And that's one of the reasons why.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Oh, tell us something now. Tell us something now. Time's running short.

[Richard Tice]

Let me just say that lots of people have been making representations about things, for example, like tax relief on cash ISAs, about why pension funds are investing so little in the UK market. Why are IPOs down 80% in the last decade? Why is the FCA impinging on so many areas that it doesn't need to? Why is our SME growth capital sort of in rounds two, three and four disappearing elsewhere? Why's the aim got the. The fewest number of companies in 25 years listed on it? All of these things we need to make it simpler, easier and more attractive for people to want to stay here. So I'm very, very focused on it indeed. I understand the point about stampjeach. All I would gently say is that what we can't do, you know, we absolutely buy into the Laffer Curve and all of that, but we can't do a Liz Truss. So we have to show there's not much money.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

There's not much money.

[Richard Tice]

So what we have to do is signal. So what the markets would like to is for us to prove that we're cutting wasteful spending on daft projects like Netstupid Zero, that waste 30 billion a year and the like. For example, the bank of England should not be paying interest on the voluntary QE reserves. It shouldn't be doing quantitative tightening again, that would save 20 billion, plus or minus. So, you know, if we prove the savings cut daft regulations, then we can show this is the direction of travel, of tax cuts. And look, there's lots of people saying you should cut this, that and the other.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Would you bring back the Brit ISA and mandate pension funds to invest a certain amount of their AUM in the UK stock market?

[Richard Tice]

I think serious questions have to be asked. Why are we giving tax relief on people to have cash ISAs with some £350 billion worth of cash sitting there, not helping UK companies grow and invest and have additional equity resources? So those are all the questions we're well aware of and looking at as we speak.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Do you ever get any donations in bitcoin? I see. Because, you know, one of your policies is to make the UK a crypto hub and I think they are the only crypto, but I don't know, would it?

[Richard Tice]

Well, the City of London has a long track record of being financial innovators and crypto and bitcoin is obviously the main one, is something to be, you know, let's Bring it onshore Mace. Let's make it easy. Cheap, transparent, tax attractive and oh yes.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

And I want to pick you up on tax attractive on this one. So there is an idea in your policies that you would put a lower capital gains rate capital tax. Yes, there is capital gains tax rate.

[Richard Tice]

On crypto, which you have to as opposed to it being offshore where everything's hidden. There's no transparency and people worry about other issues.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

But why lower on that than on other things? That doesn't really make any sense. I mean, bitcoin is not a productive asset. Why would you charge a lower rate of tax on that than you would, for example, on productive activity?

[Richard Tice]

Well, I didn't say that we didn't want lower rates on productive activity. Maybe I want lower rates on everything. Higher growth. It's just a case of timing and scale. But also we want to attract and retain and develop people and brilliant talent here as opposed to losing it to other parts of the world. Bitcoin Reserve Fund well, just patience is a virtue. I know you like to sort of reveal everything, but patience.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

I'm just reading the policies. I'm just reading the policy.

[Richard Tice]

Thank heaven someone does.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Richard, we have to stop there. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Richard Tice]

Thank you.

[Maren Sumset Webb]

Thanks for listening to this week's Marin Talks Money. If you like our show, rate, review and subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts and keep sending questions or comments to marinmoneyloomburg.net you can also follow me and John on Twitter or X. I'm Erinsw and John is JohnStepek. This episode was hosted by me Marin Thumbs Up. Well, it was produced by Sama Saadi and Moses Andam Sound designed by Blake Maples and Aaron Casper. Special thanks to Richard Tice.