B (2:57)

It's kind of the big existential question that's defined my career. Because it's shifted. I would say up until about 10 years ago, my because was to fit in. I'm, you know, the child of immigrants, grew up in this country wanting to succeed, saw that as both validation of why, you know, my parents sacrificed so, sacrificed so much to come here, but also a way to feel accepted, feel of belonging in America. And so a lot of the early chapters of my career were to fit in at the most basic level to feel valued, you know, by this country. And that didn't mean I was doing it, I think soullessly, like I was doing it with real purpose. Around impact. I was a war correspondent for cnn. I became a speechwriter to President Obama. Like, it was all good work that was trying to impact the world for the better. But a lot of what was driving me and led me to change jobs every two years and to really be restless about growth and opportunity and chasing this title or that title was this idea that I just wanted to be successful in other people's eyes. It was relative worth. And about a decade ago, I started to better understand my skills. So I dislodged this idea that I am my title. And I started to understand that I have skills I can take to different arenas. Explanatory storytelling is this core skill I've had from my first days as a reporter to now when I left journalism to join the Obama campaign and he hadn't won yet. At that moment, I knew I wanted to be part of a movement. Like telling a story was one thing, but being part of actioning that story felt like a necessary next step for me. And so a lot of the time in the administration and then at the startups I went to after was kind of coalition building. How do you tell this story but mobilize people around a vision? And then about a decade ago, my because sort of locked in economic opportunity became this sort of cause for me. I Found it really interesting. I found there were so many broken pieces to how people access or don't economic opportunity. I sort of committed to it as this 50 year problem I wanted to help solve. And a lot of it was just out of. I can be endlessly curious and committed to this because it's a big gnarly problem. And then the moment of Black Lives Matter really shook me in a way that I understood. It wasn't just economic opportunity, it was economic freedom. And you know, Dr. King has this, this great line about free to famine, free to the rains and the storms. Like legal freedom gets you a lot and it gets you to this place of being situated and seen as a human in the society you're in, the democracy you're in. But economic freedom requires like investments into you. It requires like structures around you that help you now with that legal freedom. Go build the life that you want. Go as far as your talents and tenacity will take you don't mean everyone needs to go try and be a billionaire, but it means that you can work hard and get ahead. You know, President Obama, we used to talk about that basic bargain and that just lit a fire under me because once I understood economic opportunity to be many things at once, economic agency, economic dignity, economic mobility, economic freedom, it just made it much more necessary to commit to this cause. And so that locked in as my. Because and then as we'll talk about, AI arrives. And I just saw every reason to double down on that because of the opportunity to change systems. And so I, I feel so blessed that I found my fight, I found my cause. And I don't think it has to be something as big as let's go build the third great movement in human history. Because I think we've had a movement for democracy and political freedom, a movement for climate change. I think economic freedom is sort of the third one that we can do globally. But it can be something in your community, it can be something that just drives your curiosity. Like you talk about. It can be about a sector you're interested in or a startup that you want to go and build. But I don't think I really locked into it until about 10 years ago and it changed everything.

C (6:35)

Wow. Wow, brother. Again. That's why I'm such a huge fan of you, because you just gave me reasoning, you gave me logic, you gave me philosophy. But what was most important was you gave me you. Right? Like you talked about you and what you needed to do and how you needed to change. And I think for everybody, that's Watching everybody that's listening, the moment of impact. And we're in a world of AI, right? But everything starts with you and the decisions that you make, the choices that you make. And that's why I love Aneesh for what he does, because everything does start with him. And now, Anish, we're going to talk about AI, right? Like, I can't have you on this podcast and not talk about AI. You challenged me in such a good way. Way. You had a post where you talked about, is AI like electricity or is it like computing? And I'm going to have a link to that specific post because everybody needs to watch that short. Talk to us about that a little bit. Talk to us about AI being like electricity or thinking about it like electricity.

B (7:34)

Yeah. First, let me say to everyone, I've been living and breathing this AI stuff for a couple years. Like, ever since GPT went mainstream, I saw it as a solution to a problem. I've always thought the labor market is broken. It's one of the least transparent, least dynamic, least efficient, least equitable markets humans have ever created. How we match talent and opportunity is largely guesswork and index generally on pedigree signals. Did you get the right degree from the right school? Do you have the right job title at the right employer? Do you know the people? I know, and we know so many people who have so much talent and tenacity and potential who just never got the shot they were locked out or blocked out of economic opportunities. So when I arrived, I saw, okay, this is going to be big. I think this is going to change work in a real way. That means we can clean up a lot of stuff. Like, there's a lot we could do as we rebuild work to fix what's been broken. So I came with that. Just curiosity. I know a lot of folks, understandably, are coming with a lot of fear and anxiety. Generally, when technology has disrupted work, it has led to more jobs at the other end of it. But it's led to a lot of messiness in the interim and a lot of people seeing their lives and livelihoods upended. We also know that technology, which I think is this tool unlike any humans, have had to go do big, new, better things in the world, has not lived up to the promise of what many of us thought it could. You know, a decade or two ago, there have been instances where we've all been like, what is this? And is it doing, you know, real harm to society? And so I think we all start from a place of understandable fear, understandable skepticism. And I just want to show my math about why I came at it differently. But because I was coming at it differently, I sort of started to build this logic flow and it starts with, okay, I think this is going to be big.

A (9:15)

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B (9:53)

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See full terms@mintmobile.com there's this term general purpose technology that folks may have heard about or not, but it basically describes technology that comes in, kind of changes everything and then a lot of stuff builds off of that technology in terms of new businesses, new jobs, new economies. And so if you look across sort of the history of the of work in the industrial age, you got the steam engine, you got electricity, you've got Internet, and now we've got AI. And so I always started from what does this mean for humans? And that was always a little bit of an outlier from the start because at the beginning of all this a lot of technologists were saying, well, humans are done, we're cooked, like we had a good run, but this machine's gonna out machine us like there's nothing left for us to do. So the idea that there was even a role for humans at work in this age wasn't a given. And then there wasn't a lot of effort at the beginning to if you think there is gonna be a role, start to understand what it's gonna look like. But that's where I went first. And so then I thought about, okay, we've had these three, and now this is our fourth, let's say general purpose technology. I think it's at that level. And that was, that was a step first. Cause remember, at first it was like, is AI the Internet or crypto? Is it a fad or is it actually here? And then if it's here, is it going to change overnight or over decades? We were just kind of like feeling our way through this. But I was like, no, this is big and it's going to change a lot and it's going to change quicker than we think. Okay, now what is it going to change? So then as I looked at steam engine, electricity, Internet, one thing popped out. If you think about steam engine to electricity, that was a big shift. And we write about in the book how the companies that saw the gains of electricity understood that and rebuilt the entire workplace around the electric motor in a different way than they had from the steam engine. But if you think about humans at work, it didn't change a lot. Like, you were still at a factory as a human at work, you were doing different factory work, but you were still doing largely physical labor on an assembly line, building things. Then the Internet comes along, and that kind of does change work in a big way. Right? We get the knowledge economy. Suddenly college becomes a bigger deal. Getting that CS degree becomes a bigger deal. People are launching businesses out of their garage and turning them into global empires. It kind of changed things. We went from physical work to cognitive work. So early on with AI, I was like, okay, is it going to be like electricity where we're going to do largely what we do now, but a little differently? Or is it going to be like the Internet where it's going to change what we do? And ultimately, I landed on it's going to be like the Internet, and it's going to move us. Just like the Internet moved us from physical work to cognitive work, it's going to move us from cognitive work to, like, relational work. And so early on I called it the relationship economy. Now then I called it the innovation economy. We can get into the latest version of that thinking in the book, but it's going to move work to index on something different. And then the big aha happened. As I started, you know, writing this book with our CEO, it's going to be the first time in human history that work indexes on our human capabilities. The mind, not the machine, is about to come to the center of work. And that means we got to change a lot of we got to build differently. But like you said at the start, it means like we have as one of our last chapters this idea. Nobody beats you at being you. Like, figuring out not just what makes you unique as a human, but what makes you unique as this human is going to become your biggest competitive edge.

C (13:34)

Agree. And I borrowed that from you because you and your team graciously sent me a copy of the book. So I got to read it. I'm on my third go through of it now just so that you understand how much this book means to me. And by the way, I'm remiss. The name of the book is open to how to Get Ahead in the Age of AI. And so I'm going to. I'm going to preface some things and then, Anish, I'd love for you to talk about, you know, conceptually how you and Ryan decided that we need to write this book and we need to write the book now. So for everybody that's watching this, listening, why this book is so amazing, kind of goes with the title, open to Work, but there's an action how to Get Ahead in the Age of AI. So you're not getting just talking theory. You're getting practical applications. You're getting things that you should be thinking at, looking at and then how to put those things in place or the logic behind where you should go individually or as a company. And so now my question, Anish, is this. How the heck did you do this book, bro? Like, it is. I yield from using the word perfect a lot, but it is the perfect book for right now. And I truly mean that. So, like, how did you and Ryan visioned this together and what was that process like?

B (14:44)

Well, thank you for saying that. Cause it is like, it's so hard to write a book that I've turned it from a noun to a verb. Like, to book is really difficult. It's an intense endeavor. For anyone that ever wants to write a book, call me up. I will try and dissuade you with every solid argument I have. And then if you still want to write it, that's the reason to write it. And that's kind of where we started again. We both understood AI could be a solution to a problem because we had been, prior to AI going mainstream, really pushing this idea of a skills first labor market. How do we make it more possible to match talent and opportunity around the skills a person has and the skills that a job needs done? And so we, we saw it as something that, that could advance that Cause and then we started seeing around us this conversation, build and build and build. That was so charged, that was so emotional, that was fueling so much fear, so much anxiety. And worst of all, we realized it was fueling this fatalism. There was this thing settling in that was kind of like, whatever's coming is predetermined. Whatever's coming is inevitable. Whatever's coming for me, for us, for all humans at work, I already knows the answer, or a bunch of CEOs already know the answer, or academics know the answer and we're all just like along for the ride. That's such an anti human view because it, it diminishes not just the potential we have as humans, which the industrial age like shrunk us. And so we've internalized this diminished sense of self that we need to be about efficiency at work and that we need to be machine like. And so if something comes, like a machine that can out machine us or a tool that can out efficiency us, like we get afraid, but we skip past. So wait, we're more than this. Like, humans have been around longer than the steam engine, our brain, that's been this brain able to have complex thought and build stories that mobilize us. It's at least 40,000 years old, maybe 70,000 years old. It built the nation state, the monetary order, everything around us was humans imagining something that didn't exist and then figuring out a way to make it so we can go back to that. So a lot of it was like this fatalism. And so we wanted to push back on that. And so at the beginning, you know, it was, we went up and down, what is this book? Do we have a book or do we just have an idea? What does it look like if we build it out? Is it just a career book? Is it something bigger? And we had a couple of guiding principles. One was that we wanted to help people. And that was like a real important point, which is because at the time there were a lot of books coming out that were sort of thoughts for thinkers to think about when it came to AI, which was appropriate. It was early and it was a lot of like leaders talking to leaders, or academics talking to academics, just people trying to get their head around it at this really broad societal, macroeconomic level. And we just knew for every member, because our vision at LinkedIn, which keeps us honest, is create economic opportunity for every member of the global workforce. And so we just knew for every member that stuff was like unhelpful. And so we wanted to make it really specific. And so there's a part of the book that helps you just get situated, that understands what's been and what's possible for us as humans at work. But then we get super tactical about what you can do as you think about your job. What you can do is you think about your career for companies, for economies, and then ultimately for you as an individual. So that was a helpful push for us along the way. And then the other guiding principle we had is we're just like two dudes who've had kind of the careers we've had. We're not representative. And it's hard to make anyone representative given that, as we've talked about, everyone's going to have to be uniquely themselves. But we knew one way to do that would be to have a really diverse selection of stories of workers from all backgrounds, from all stages of their career, from every angle. Coming at AI I mean, we got Jonetta Grisham, like this 50 year old person who starts with hell no to AI. I mean, she talks about how she grew up watching Terminator, Terminator 2, Terminator 3. AI came and she's like, okay, it's now happening, the robot apocalypse. But she talks about how she pushed through that. And she was taking a course where they said, use this tool to update your resume. And it helped her see her skills in a new way. And then she had to learn something for a certification. And she was like, every one of us, someone who never found learning fit us. It wasn't built around our way of learning, our curiosity. So she told the tools like, help me learn this thing in a way I like to learn with stories, with analogies, helped her get that IT certification to stories like Jonetta, like Ume, like Taj, like Diego. I mean, it was really important for us to have that. And that is the book. And so our hope ultimately is that not only does it help you at a basic level, but it helps you by being really actionable and it helps you by finding someone in this book. The humans of this book are the book. Someone in this book that feels like someone that you could listen to and trust and believe that what they're saying is something that could work for you. Because, you know, ultimately we're in a battle of belief right now. And if the people that win and the stories that win are a disbelief story like humans are done, the technology keeps beating us at stuff like hunker down, give up, give in, like that's just going to be more likely as the outcome. Because we know that's how things Work like we tell ourselves stories in order to live, as Joan Didion said, as humans. But if, if we can inspire belief and ignite belief in everyone, especially folks who have found the labor market to be a place that locks them out or blocks them out of opportun. Like this is a cheat code now with this tool and with the way it's changing. And so that's what we wanted to really inspire at Ignite Real talk.

C (20:03)

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B (23:26)

Well, it's so powerful. It's kind of the everything of the moment in the book, which is AI is not going to replace you unless you let it. Right? Like, it all starts with the agency we have as individuals and the strengths we start with. We have a neuroscientist in the book who has a great line. Everyone is amazing as they are. So this is one of those moments where you start with strengths no matter who you are, where you've been across your lived experience, your learned experience. Maybe you got resiliency not from work, but from how you grew up. Maybe you've got adaptability because you have to shift jobs a lot. You're really curious, you're really creative, you know how to read the room, you know how to build partnerships, whatever it is, you start with strengths that are human, strengths that AI can't beat you at. But if your day to day job is largely routinized tasks, summarizing this over here, analyzing quickly that over there, yeah, AI is going to beat you at that. Because your day right now is largely about efficiency work. It will out efficiency you, but you are more than that. But you got to decide that you're more than that. You got to believe that. And then you got to shift the tasks of your job in that direction. We have this statistic. 70% of the skills for the average job will have changed by 2030. That's a lot. 7, 0. So that means even if you aren't changing jobs, your job is changing on you into an entirely new job. Now, what's exciting about this moment is in a past era of technological disruption, the way it worked was it played out over years and top down. So if I was telling you about the Internet or the electricity and telling you that 70% of your job was gonna change, I'd kind of be like, okay. And then like, wait until you hear how it's going to change. Because at some point your boss, your boss's boss is going to come tell you, okay, we figured it out. Here's how we're using the technology, here's what it means for you. Maybe get laid off, maybe you get moved around, maybe you get hired into something that's a new job of that economy. But you didn't have much control over how it was going to change your job. It was kind of decided for you. The opposite is true. Now you know who has less idea than you about what you do all day? Your boss, your boss's boss. Like you know what you do all day. And that 70% is yours to change. And we have a chapter in the book about this for how we can all just approach our jobs today. About this tool. Take the dozen tasks you do in a week, forget your job title, and you could be CEO or the newest hired a company, and I'd say the same thing. Forget your job title. You do about 12 tasks every week. What are the tasks that AI can do now? I mean, if you're only coding as a software engineer, all your work is in bucket one. But generally, which is why they're still hiring software engineers, that isn't all you do. You also have to meet with other teams, you have to meet with customers. You can use these tools to prototype things in new ways. So whatever you got going that AI can do, that's bucket one. Bucket two is what you're doing with AI. And this is the key. It isn't bucket one stuff. Bucket one is what you're assigning to AI. Bucket two is what you're do with AI. That means you're doing something new, you're learning something new, or you're building something new. You can now go into a meeting with someone you've never met, who's from a different world. Doesn't have to be literally a different country speaking a different language. It can be, I'm an engineer and they're in sales, and they might as well be from a different country because I don't understand what they say when they talk. The tool can close that knowledge gap. It can close that expertise gap. It can say, hey, here's how you have to think about who they are and what they want out of this meeting. Here's how you can frame things for them so it'll be win, win for them. You can come into a meeting and say, I want to pop this visual. I really want to pitch this idea. How about I create a video? How about I create a visualization, an image of like, where we want you to sit in Times Square to talk to people, let you see. It could do that with the tool. So bucket two is, what are you doing that's new with it? Not assigning it, but building with it. And then bucket three is stuff that's you. I mean, I need a minute to think about this. I want to challenge my assumptions on this. I want to come up with a new way for us to approach this. That stuff that is you on your own as a human. Ethical judgment, critical thinking. That also that bucket is doing something with other humans, going and brainstorming something, going and partnering in a new way. As you move your job like a conveyor belt. And the task, your job across those buckets, that's the opportunity. Because bucket one task, you don't got to do anymore. You've got a tool now that's going to do it. Bucket two tasks, you get to become smarter and build better without having to go back to school or hire a bunch of people to create the content you want to create, you just got to do bucket two. And then bucket three is, oh, my God, all this cool new stuff you get to do. And never forget, everything that's led us to do anything good in the world as humans has come about because we've done it together. There is no story of positive impact, big change. Even building a successful business that is just about a lone genius that in the book, we talk about Einstein, we talk about da Vinci, we talk about Mozart. Like all these people that came to be who they are because of people around them and because of the space they had to think creatively or to be curious. So go find your people. Go learn with other people. Go brainstorm with other people. Never before has more been possible. And as easy as it is to do it as it is now, for anyone who still is. Like, about the tool, this is the easiest to use technology that humans have ever created. You literally just have to talk to it like you would another person. And it's getting easier by the day to do more and more bigger, cooler stuff, so don't let yourself get in the way again. AI isn't coming for you unless you let it.

C (28:40)

Anishma, I could. I could talk to you all day. I know how busy you are. We might have to do a part two, because I freaking. I want to pick your brain on so much and you have so much to give to the audience. But if there's, if there's one thing that you want people to truly know about this book and why they need it right now, what would that one thing?

B (29:01)

I would say we have all deserved a world of work where we could bet on ourself and feel like the systems of work would help us make that bet pay off. And that is true for any human who's ever worked a day in their life. And until recently, I wouldn't have been able to say to any of those humans, bet on yourself, and let's get going on building a world of work that lets that bet pay off. And that's sad. That really rips at me if I think about it. The billions of humans who have had so much potential, who could have done so much, who could have come up with so many new ideas and new industries, who just weren't born in the right zip code or at the right time to hack their way into what they needed to succeed. But we're in a different moment. And so on behalf of all of them, bet on yourself. For every person who couldn't do that, even though they desperately wanted to. Bet on yourself, push everyone around you, the people you work with, the people you work for, the folks you elect into office, the folks that you have as community leaders, push all of them to make sure your bet pays off, to build the systems of work in a new way so that they are human centric, they are dynamic, they are agile, but we get to do the work of building a better world of work. Better work for each of us. Better work for all of us. So let's go do it. So bet on yourself, make sure you've got that, and then go make the world a place where everyone can bet on themselves and have that bet pay off.

C (30:23)

I love it. And Anish man, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pay this forward, because folks that follow the podcast, they know when I have Good books that are really good reads that are impactful. I usually give out like 20 copies to the first 20 people that message me. This book is so important in what we do right now. And we're going to do this on LinkedIn for obvious reasons. The first 50 people that message me, AI on LinkedIn, you're going to get a copy of this book from me. So, Aneesh, I'm going to buy 50 copies right now, and the first 50 people on LinkedIn, you're gonna get a copy of the book. But here's what I need you to do. I need you to pay it forward. Especially if you're a leader of a company. You don't have to be the owner if you're the leader of the company. When I gift you this book, I now need you to go get a couple of copies for key people on your staff, because this is how you're gonna win. This book is gonna teach you how to win. It's gonna give you frameworks and mentalities, thoughts and action to succeed. I guarantee it. Like, I don't. You've never heard me guarantee on this podcast. I can promise you. Because in just a short period of time, it's changed things at my companies, Right? Like, I have people who, I'm not going to say they were anti AI, they were intimidated by AI, but in this book, they understood. Just find one thing and make me stronger. As Anish said, in one area. Because now, again, and someone on my team will tell you this, what used to take five hours takes one hour. That productivity by utilizing AI and understanding. So 50 people, LinkedIn, AI, but you gotta move it forward. And how you prove it to me is by taking a picture, tagging me in a niche, and saying that you're paying it forward. That would mean the world to a niche, but it would mean even more to me because of the respect that I have for this guy. So, Anisha, brother, I love you.

B (32:11)

Well, same to you. We anyone that, anyone that feels any connection to the story we're talking about here, it's like a movement. I mean, really, we got to go get the word out, we got to go enlist others. It's got to get bigger as we go forward. We got to have precinct captains. I mean, you got to have people, like, in each sector, in each community, in each community college, like, getting out there with this word and giving people, like a call to action and some simple steps. But if we can mobilize folks and it starts with ourself, like any good movement, we can fix Work. We can build better work. I mean, that just we can change how the world works. It starts with one worker at a time. So just thank you to everyone who's listening who has been inspired in a new way and wants to go bring others along.

C (32:50)

You got it, Anish. Anytime you want to. Come on, brother.

B (32:53)

Well, we should. I'm going to commit now and I'll tell my team, like, we got to do a part two, because what I want to geek out with a bit is like, what makes us us. What was sort of interesting and surprising about writing this book is if we weren't starting with what can the technology can do, but what can we do? We have to define us. We have to define what makes humans human, what are our unique capabilities. And it turns out there's been not much work on that in the arena of work because we haven't had to do that because the machine has been at the center of work, not the mind. So it would be fun to do a part two where we go through just how we constructed our offering, you know, of what makes us us. The five Cs in the book, the sort of habits of resilience and adaptability that lead to an entrepreneurial mindset and just how folks can take that as a. To do as well, to build that. That human capability.

C (33:38)

Absolutely, brother. We will make that happen. Anish. Again, honored. I'm going to have connections to Anisha in the show notes in the descriptions. I will have links to the also in the show notes in the description if you're watching or listening. Also your local bookstore support. Local bookstores. Great way to go get it. But obviously I have links to Amazon Books, a million Barnes and Nobles and all that too. But if you can go get at a local bookstore, that's also a big one for all the viewers and listeners. Remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it. That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged. If this episode moved you, and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen, share it with someone who needs that spark and leave a review so more people can find there, because I'm Rudy Rush. And until next time, stay driven, stay focused and stay Unplugged.