Breaking Bread and Barriers with Andrew Zimmern

Summary

Mick Unplugged — "Breaking Bread and Barriers with Andrew Zimmern"

Date: November 10, 2025
Host: Mick Hunt
Guest: Andrew Zimmern, Emmy-winning TV host, chef, and storyteller

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Episode Overview

This episode of Mick Unplugged features renowned chef and food adventurer Andrew Zimmern. Going beyond his "Bizarre Foods" persona, the conversation digs into food as a universal language, the deeper motivations behind impactful work (“the because”), and Andrew’s enduring curiosity about the world. The discussion weaves together life lessons, leadership, honest self-reflection, and practical wisdom—culminating in an exploration of Zimmern’s new project, The Blue Food Cookbook, which advocates for a more sustainable future through seafood and aquatic foods.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Origin of Bizarre Foods & the Power of Curiosity

• Birth of an Idea: Andrew recounts pitching his travel-food show in 2004, originally called The Wandering Spoon, and how the concept evolved into Bizarre Foods after reading a room of skeptical TV executives ([03:33]-[09:21]).
• Childhood Adventures: He reflects on early experiences eating unusual foods in Spain with his father, which normalized global food exploration and curiosity.

“I was a little kid, I was eating bigorno, little French periwinkle snails... I didn’t think there was anything of it. My father was the kind of person who, when in Rome, eat what the Romans eat.”
— Andrew Zimmern [06:33]

• Lesson: Sometimes success comes from improvisation, curiosity, and noticing what makes others react.

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2. The “Because” — The Drive Behind the Doing

What gets you out of bed after so many achievements?
Mick asks about Andrew’s “because”—the force deeper than “why” ([09:47]-[13:44]):

“Because I spent 10, 12, 14 years being a user of people and a taker of things. Because I owe the world a debt I don’t think I can ever repay. Because I’m endlessly curious.”
— Andrew Zimmern [10:10]

• Guilt & Redemption: Andrew is candid about his past struggles and his sense of responsibility to give back.
• Curiosity as Purpose: He’s driven to keep exploring, telling new stories, and, with them, instigating positive change.
• Broader Mission: Zimmern champions a diversified diet as a way to heal people, economies, and the planet.

“If we diversify our diets, we can save this planet. We can save families, we can lower prices on food.”
— Andrew Zimmern [11:19]

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3. Pursuit of Balance & Self-Reflection

On “Doing It All” and Avoiding Burnout ([13:44]-[18:22]):

• Admitting Imperfection: Both Mick and Andrew wrestle with overcommitment and guilt over relationships that need more attention.
• Action Steps & Astronaut Logic: Andrew shares advice from a behavioral scientist: Problems are rarely one-dimensional; break down dilemmas and address one piece at a time.
• Raw Honesty: Both men acknowledge the relentless pace of their work and the struggle to “put their own oxygen mask on first.”

“I’m a mile long and a quarter inch deep and I want to get...I no longer want to have a spread offense...I need to be an inch deep and a quarter mile long.”
— Andrew Zimmern [14:46]

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4. Healing Through Food: Stories from the Table

Food as Universal Language ([24:23]-[36:15]):

• Family Meal Ritual: Every Bizarre Foods episode ends with a shared meal—highlighting the familiar and universal aspects of eating together.
• Human Connection: Andrew believes that humanity’s similarities vastly outweigh our differences, and food is the quickest bridge.

“I wanted people to see how much they had in common...in a world that was increasingly defining itself by the things that divided us.”
— Andrew Zimmern [25:35]

Memorable Stories

• Lapland Dinner: Eating with a Finnish reindeer herding family, recognizing familiar parental negotiations and universal human behaviors ([27:24]-[31:00]).
• Lunch with a Terrorist: Meeting a notorious former Palestinian militant; a chilling illustration of deep-seated conflict but also an exercise in listening and seeking understanding.

“He just said, ‘My daughter’s daughter’s daughter will bathe in the blood of your son’s children’s children,’ and sipped his juice.”
— Andrew Zimmern [36:07]

• Big Takeaway: Food can be neutral, common ground—even in the most fraught circumstances.

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5. The Blue Food Cookbook — Solutions for a Hungry World

Why “Blue Food”? ([44:39]-[54:28]):

• Definition: All foods from aquatic environments—fish, seaweed, shellfish, underwater plants.
• Sustainability: Promotes eating more seafood and aquatic plants as a means of reducing the environmental strain from land-based animal agriculture.
• Consumer Confusion: Americans, Andrew argues, have been led astray by myths about seafood being too expensive, smelly, or hard to cook—a contrast to much of the rest of the world.

“If we...eat more meals out of the ocean, we would eat fewer meals from the green economy...We are literally devouring our own planet.”
— Andrew Zimmern [47:00]

• Aquaculture Advocacy: Farming seafood can be sustainable, safe, and scalable—if consumers demand and trust it.
• Practical Guide: The cookbook contains 145 recipes plus extensive guidance on buying, preparing, and understanding the diversity of blue foods.
• Climate & Social Justice Links: Better blue food choices can address hunger, climate change, job and gender equity, and more.

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6. Favorite Recipes & Home Cooking Inspiration

• Lasagna with Seaweed: Andrew’s go-to, emphasizing that seaweed’s “umami bomb” can change the way people think about comfort food.
• Kelp Crumble and Seaweed Brownies: Pushing listeners to try unexpected combinations for health, taste, and environmental impact.

“Great food is about contrast...and seaweed is arguably the healthiest thing you can eat.”
— Andrew Zimmern [55:42]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Purpose:
  “I want to die in the saddle...I have no interest in stopping and going off and playing golf...”
  — Andrew Zimmern [12:50]

• On Honesty:
  “I learned a long time ago to answer a question honestly. I think there’s more people out there who can relate to a human being who screws a lot of stuff up...”
  — Andrew Zimmern [12:20]

• On Connection:
  “Co-regulating with human beings before operationalizing with them is the most crucial thing that you can do.”
  — Andrew Zimmern [21:39]

• On Optimism:
  “I enjoy it more when I’m visiting you wherever you live, and we connect...Turns out like we’re living the same life, Right?”
  — Andrew Zimmern [41:30]

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Key Takeaways

• True leadership springs not just from knowing “why,” but from living your “because”—an integration of duty, curiosity, and honest self-examination.
• Food is not just sustenance, but a tool for healing divisions, creating empathy, and sparking real conversations—even in conflict zones.
• Adopting more “blue food” in our diets isn’t only about health but planetary survival, and Andrew Zimmern’s Blue Food Cookbook gives the tools, recipes, and arguments needed for this shift.
• Vulnerability and curiosity are not weaknesses in leadership; they’re fuel for growth, innovation, and authentic connection.

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Highlighted Timestamps

• 03:33 — Andrew Zimmern describes the origin of Bizarre Foods
• 09:47 — Mick asks about Andrew’s “because”; deep dive into purpose
• 14:46 — Andrew and Mick discuss the struggle for balance amid busyness
• 24:23 — Food as a healer, the family meal ritual, and universality of eating
• 27:24 — Story from Lapland: the universal language of food
• 36:07 — Lunch with a terrorist: confronting hate and the limits of food’s comfort
• 44:39 — Introduction to The Blue Food Cookbook and its mission
• 55:42 — The power of seaweed and reimagining favorite foods

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Final Thoughts

Zimmern entwines his culinary journey with wisdom on purpose, resilience, healing, and environmental responsibility. Breaking Bread and Barriers challenges listeners to embrace curiosity, eat consciously, and find “the because”—the deeper mission that animates genuine leadership and change.

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To learn more and get The Blue Food Cookbook, visit your local bookstore, Amazon, or AndrewZimmern.com.

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“Your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.”
— Mick Hunt [58:32]

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Transcript

[Mick]

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Ladies and gentlemen, one of the coolest episodes I've ever done is this episode that you're about to listen to with Emmy winning TV hosts James Beard nominated and winning chef Andrew Zimmern.

We're going to talk through a lot.

Of things and Maybe not all the things that you actually think of. When we talk about a chef, we're.

Going to talk about life, we're going to talk about food as a healer.

Absolutely. Make sure you listen to this entire episode because we're going to give you the goods. You're into food if you're into life, if you're into wanting to be healed, this episode is for you. Ladies and gentlemen, I present Mr. Andrew Zimmerman. Andrew, how you doing today, brother?

[Andrew Zimmern]

Good, Mick, how are you?

[Mick]

I am awesome, man. I have been a huge fan of you for a long time. You know, I, I called it bizarre foods in the intro, but just, you.

Know, foods that the everyday person like.

Me wouldn't think that, oh yeah, I'm gonna go eat that, I'm gonna go prepare that.

When did you know that was a.

Thing for you, man?

[Andrew Zimmern]

The day magically that they told me that my travel food idea that I had finally gotten into the boardroom to pitch at Travel channel in 2004 was a PBS show and not a commercial television show. And I, I had this idea called the Wandering Spoon. Worst name for a food travel TV show of all time. And what I did was I wanted to, you know, teach the world about diving into other cultures through food. There was at the time, unbeknownst to me, because you have to remember we're pushing our show 2002, 3, 4, 5. Tony had yet to. Anthony Bourdain had yet to make Cook's Tour which was on Food Network that got bought by Travel Channel and they basically re aired what didn't work on Food Network and renamed the show no reservations and move forward with that show that became so legendary. There was a, a huge part of my life where looking in the rear view mirror, I was eating whatever it was that was in that place. When I was 7 years old in Spain with my dad, I ate Angula's baby eels and we ate whole roasted partridge, red legged partridge in Asturias together in little restaurants. And they were shot by a hunter. You had to be careful of the, of eating any shotgun pellets. And then there was a tiny little resting cradle. Looked like a chopstick rest. And there was a heavy knife there and the idea was you would flip it around and use the handle and crack the skull and eat the brain. And yeah, you know, this was something that was just been traditionally done forever and ever there. You know, I was a little kid, I was eating bigorno little French periwinkle snails in leal with my father when I was five baby, I mean literally Two days, you know, past being fetal lamb and, and pig in Valley de los Caydos in Spain.

[Mick]

My dad, you can't just roll past.

That like just a few days past birth.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Oh, it's the most delicious. You know that it's a single portion, right? You get a whole one yourself. But the, the first six, eight, nine weeks, it varies between hoofed animal species before they go on to grass, when they're just eating mother's milk. That's it. The animal is at its tastiest, it's at its most delicious, regardless of what animal it is. It's why when I'm in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, I love being out in the, in the jungle markets and villages where they're taking tiny little birds, often little ducks or chicks, and dipping them in boiling water, removing all the feathers and deep frying them whole. And then you just eat them with a little bit of, of n cham and, and you eat the whole thing except the beak. When birds hoofed animals and so the first couple weeks of life, they are at their, at their most delicious. But the point is, is that I didn't think there was anything of it. My father was the kind of person who, who was like, you know, when in Rome eat what the Romans eat, right? So flash ahead to 2004. 5. I'm pushing this show and about travel. And they, they rejected it. But they let me come back the next day to re pitch it because they, they said, look, if you can reverse this, give us 75% entertainment instead of 75% education in this show, we think we can do something with that. And so I came back the next day. I didn't have a clue in the world. And lucky for me, instead of them saying, have you thought about it? What's your idea? In which case I would have said, I have nothing. Pat Young, the head of Travel Channel, threw me a laser pointer, hit a button, a map of the world came up on the wall in the Discovery boardroom. There were 20 different executives there at the time and me alone at the other end. And he said, take me through episode one and then season one. And I just saw all I saw because I was standing on the North American side of the map and I could see the Philippines straight ahead of me. I just hit the laser pointer. I said, well, we would go to the Philippines and try balut, which is fertilized duck egg. And then I just made my way around the world and I realized I was about 2, 3 examples in. I realized I had mentioned foods that for Those people in the room were new. They hadn't heard of them. And they were exotic and different and unique. And I was getting quite a reaction from them. And the only thing, one of the few smart things I've ever done in my whole life was I read that room the right way and I just kept going. And I put the pointer down and I think I'd named 30 foods in 30 countries, and they were like, okay, go find a production company and let's make this show. And the rest, as they say, is history.

[Mick]

The rest is history. And so that was 2004. And one of the reasons I adore you so much, Andrew, is just that passion, that energy, that creativity. It's like it continues to evolve, Right? Like, you're never stale, no. No pun intended from a food standpoint.

Right.

But like, you're always fresh, you're always palatable. And so I wanted to ask you what I ask all my guests, like, what's your.

Because what's your purpose? What's that deeper thing that's deeper than your.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Why?

[Mick]

For you to continue to do the things that you do. Because I'm going to say what Andrew won't say.

You've accomplished so much, brother. You've accomplished a lot that if you wanted to, you could say, all right, I'm good, but you continue to do what's your. Because.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Because I spent 10, 12, 14 years being a user of people and a taker of things. Because I owe the world a debt that I don't think I can ever repay because I have such a lack of self appreciation, I guess that I continue to want to do more because I'm endlessly curious. And so there's always something that I want to put out there in the world. Another story, another idea, another way of looking at something to try to make the world a better place. And I don't say that in a Pollyanna sense. I, I, I mean that really seriously. I believe, as I did when I created bizarre foods, that if we diversify our diets, we can save this planet. We can save families, we can lower prices on food. We can. I mean, you just look at what's going on in the supermarket today. The reason meat prices and seafood prices are so high is that we eat four things and that's it. And when you put all your eggs in one basket and that basket hits the ground, some eggs are going to break. And that's why ground beef, which America literally lives on as a nation, is almost $10 a pound. And I would argue that, you know, Fish raised in the aquaculture situation, if it, if it received the investment it deserves, which is not that much more because it's almost been perfected, is. Would. Would be able to feed an ever increasingly and hungry planet cheaper and more effectively. And you know, I got a lot of because is right. And you know, maybe I like solving global problems because I don't want to turn the mirror around and solve my own. It has been. I'm not proud of it. I just, I learned a long time ago to answer a question honestly. And I think it's way more interesting for people to hear because I think there's more people out there who can relate to a human being who screws a lot of stuff up. Relationships, fatherhood. I mean, I make a ton of mistakes every single day, and I'm constantly trying to evaluate it before I go to bed at night and try to get better. And one of the places that I can both simultaneously hide and make a difference is at work. And so I keep doing what I'm doing and I, I just, I don't know, there's, you know, I want to keep working. I want to die in the saddle. I mean, I don't. I have no interest in stopping and going off and playing golf and all the rest of that kind of stuff. I'd like to spend more time with my friends. I'd like to spend more time with my family. I'd like to do a couple other little things in there. So do I want to keep going 90 miles an hour? No, I don't think, I think that's sustainable. But I'm, I'm. I'm going to go down to 50 or 60, whatever the speed limit is, and just keep cruising along, you know.

[Mick]

I want to go there, man, because again, I'm, I'm getting therapy from you by having this conversation. I run hard, right? I mean, I'm, I'm. And you get it. I don't have to explain that to you.

[Andrew Zimmern]

You got a lot of velocity in your life, just like me.

[Mick]

How do you find that balance?

Because I try to make sure. And I hate saying the word try. I usually don't have that in my vocabulary. I put importance on making sure. I give people time even though I'm running hard. But what people don't see is there are moments where I just need to exist just by myself. Right? But you have to be committed to be the best parent, the best husband, the best friend that you can be, all while still running at 150 miles an hour. How do you balance that because I need help. And this is me being honest. I need help.

[Andrew Zimmern]

I, I'm in the same. Well, well, they were really screwed because I was hoping you'd help me with that when you were starting that last sentence. The, I don't know because I struggle. I mean, I had a friend text me the other day that, who told me that I had gotten lousy at responding to texts fast enough. And he wasn't talking about immediately. He said like, you know, you know, I'm one of your two or three best friends. What, what's the, you know, within a day you get back to me, I'm asking you about important stuff about your, your, your kid, your relationship, you know, whatever it is. I mean, and, and I didn't. And I know that my son needs more time from his father and I know that in my primary relationships, be they at work or at home, need more time from me. But I'm a mile long and a quarter inch deep and I want to get. I, I, I was, I use a football metaphor here. I, I, I no longer want to have a spread offense and be a wide receiver all the way at the end. I'd rather be an interior lineman at this point. I need to, I need to be an inch deep and a quarter mile long. And so that's my, that's my goal. How, how I get there is with legitimate action steps. I, I think and it's, it's never one thing. I, I had a behavioral scientist who I was talking to at a conferen say something that I've never forgotten. He, he said, he said in any human dilemma where you have choice because a problem exists, the solution to the problem and the cause of the problem is never one thing, he said. As human beings, we tend to look at it one way, right? Oh, mix background on his, on our recording is, is dark and mine is light. That's a prop, you know, like that's, that's the reason I'm having a bad day. Or we want to pick one thing, he said. In fact, it's usually eight, nine or 10 things that when taken together either pile up on each other or in some cases, relationships business can. Many of them can be intertwined and so you really have to separate them and, and, and use what he called astronaut logic, which we've all heard of before. One task at a time, in sequence. And so unraveling that and attacking that is what I try to do more of every single day. It's just tough, especially when dad's job takes him away right And I'm not around the people in my life. And I'm going, you know, because primarily what I do is television. Even though I'm shooting fewer days a year than I used to, I have a lot of days where from 7 in the morning to 7 at night, that phone is off, right? And so I'm not around to answer tests and I get home and I'm exhausted or back to the hotel room. I just want to watch the football game or two episodes of whatever show I'm binging or whatever it is to relax because I need my me time. And you know, we all hear about take care of yourself, put your own oxygen mask on first. So I rationalize not responding to solving the problems at hand in my life, even the little small ones.

[Mick]

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[Andrew Zimmern]

Learned I'm better off handling those smaller problems. I'm less weary. I'm less world weary when I do that. The other thing that I've, I've learned recently that I think is really fascinating and I talk a lot about this when I'm giving talks in the wellness space. I, you know, schools, universities, conclaves, gatherings of any type. Will will call my lectern agent and they're just as likely to have me talk about wellness as they are to have me talk about travel and food.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Just because I spent a lot of time in this space and you know, long term sober and am fascinated about creating better human beings starting with myself.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

And I have found that the greatest tool for helping my which is why I answered your question honestly at the at the very outset is if co regulating with human beings before operationalizing with them is the most crucial thing that you can do. And I just had a friend in my office who I haven't seen in a decade and I rang him up and he's in the coffee business and I'm trying to work on a coffee project for a client. And so he came here and as he's leaving he said, I'll ask you this question. He said, my daughter's a teenager. She's having her first party at our house. And how many people is a good number? You know, you're a dad, your kids are older, how many is a good number to have over? And I said, well, you're turned it around. What you should do is you should ask her what's a good number? And then you should ask her why that's a good number. And then you should ask her what she wants evening to look like and you should just keep asking questions until you don't have any more. Let her tell you everything before you respond. Then you can tell her how that makes you feel. Right. That you will then be co regulated. She's told you, you've told her and then you can say, so what do you think now? You know, like, because maybe one of your concerns is too many people would for a first party might be not dangerous, but you know, put too many people at risk. She's only 15. You don't need 40 people there. Maybe 20 is a good number. Maybe that's better for economic reasons, whatever it is. But co regulating before operationalizing allows you to connect with people on a very meaningful, direct way, almost literally in real time, very, very, very immediately. And I have found that to be of infinite value as I navigate my way through life.

[Mick]

Good stuff. Good stuff. Ladies and gentlemen. You didn't know you were getting life lessons from Andrew, but that's what we're here for. And part of this, Andrew, you know, I said it in the opener again, you're one of the greatest storytellers that I've ever seen. And to me that's an art. Like I know the culinary art that you have and the passion that you have, but you're also an amazing storyteller. And I've heard you say many times that food is like a universal language. Right. In, in Andrew's way. Can you give us an example of how you've seen food heal or comfort or bring people together? Does the story come to mind?

[Andrew Zimmern]

Well, sure. I mean, it's, I've got millions of them. I, I, I do think the concept deserves a moment or two of, of illumination. We, we only, we only do several things all the time, and one of them is eat. Now, not everyone in America in 2025 has a food life. We have to be very careful about that. It's one of the other things that drives me. It's another because. Right. I've, I've made a lot of money off of food. I have a lot of success because of food. I have made an impact because of food. And yet I'm also part of the problem because I fetishize food. While 20% of Americans don't know where their next meal is coming from. So I work really hard to try to solve hunger and waste issues here in Minnesota, nationally, in America and internationally with my work with the UN World Food Program. But because we do this every day, food is a universal.

[Mick]

Right.

[Andrew Zimmern]

So I'll give you a couple very general examples, perhaps from shows people have seen in every episode of Bizarre Foods. We always had a family meal, every single one. We didn't put a circle around it. We didn't put A lower third graphic underneath it. We didn't flash lights to let everybody know, here's the family meal, but we always sat down with the family in every single episode and ate. And the reason why I insisted on that, along with several other storytelling silos, I wanted a how it was made story. I wanted. Because I wanted there to be something for everyone to take from this experience in this culture. And we always had a family dinner episode because I wanted people in Finland to see how people in China ate, and I wanted people in Uruguay to see how people in China. I wanted people in Arizona to see how people in Uruguay ate. And I did that very consciously because I wanted people to see how much they had in common with each other in a world that was increasingly defining itself by the things that divided us. So even though I may speak a different language, have different color skin, worship a different deity, listen to different music, have different sexuality, and on and on and on than whoever I was with, if we were sharing a meal, amazing things could happen, right? And we would find out that we wound up having way more in common, even though on the face of it, it may appear that we were very, very different people from very, very different walks of life.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

I believe our humanity in the general sense, with a capital H, is what defines us. Not all of those. Those other things. And I remember being in Finland, we went up to Lapland, and we were having a dinner with some reindeer herders and his family. And we did the usual thing, you know, shots of the reindeer. And I was milking a reindeer, which is very difficult. They give off. They. They have the richest milk in the animal kingdom, but they give off the least of it because it's so intense. And then we made little pancakes with it, and we foraged for berries, and we gathered crayfish in the river. And then we wound up at his family table with his wife and her parents and their. He and his wife's kids. And there's like eight of us at the table, and me. And we. We edited it, but in before, when we were there, live. Yeah, it was. It. The. The. What comes off as a minute in the show took two hours, right? And we're seeing. It always does. And we're sitting there with this family, and the grandmother is. Is looking at the kids, you know, with this look very stern and not opening up her eyes and kind of turning away from me and, like, using her head, kind of like a woodpecker at them. And I look over at the kids, and they're getting fidgety and you know, they're like 6 and 8, right? And they've got to sit at this table for two hours. No kid can do that anywhere on planet Earth. I've watched and you know, it is. That's something every parent around the world can relate to. And then they were. I. I could hear the mom whispering to the kids across the table. I did not speak their dialect at all, right? And in fact, in. In this part of Finland, they don't even speak the language that the people in Helsinki speak. Yeah, they have their own diversion of. Of Finnish, and I don't speak a word of it, but I understood everything that she was saying. She was saying, I told you I'd give you that candy and cookies when you got. You just have to be nice while the, the strange people from the other part of the world are gone. They're just, you know, and, and, and, you know, you promised me. So just sit on your hands, try to be quiet. You and your sister can whisper to each other, you know, because that's what I would say to my kids, right? And so I didn't need to know the language, right? So we are universally humanized by that experience. I was, and so were they because I didn't react to them, right? I just let them do what they wanted to do. I didn't lean over and say it's okay or anything like that. I just let it happen. I'm just there to. To experience their life. I don't. I don't want to impact it. I don't want to ruin anything magical that might happen on the tv. Once we start eating and the kids are eating, they're occupied and we're telling jokes and things are being translated because the dad spoke English, right? And which is why we cast this family. And all of a sudden the kids are kind of liking me, right? And so what starts off as an awkward, fidgety, awful thing. Even grandma started to think that I was an amusing fellow. Now this is a very simple, basic example of how our shared humanity is so much bigger than the things that you would think might divide us, right? I would go all the way to a. A glass of juice that I had with one of the world's most famous terrorists who lives in seclusion in Jericho with Israeli tanks on a hill trained at his house. We did a story in one of our shows about a woman's couscous cooperative in Jericho. There are no men that live in this little village on the outskirts of Jericho. They all are either dead or off fighting jihad somewhere. The women It's a patriarchal society. The women decided, screw this. We need a clinic, we need a library, we need a school, right? So several of the women got together and said, we're gonna hand roll couscous, dry it and sell it. It's an exquisite, beautiful product. And through the sale of this product throughout the Arab world, and it's even imported here into this country, at least it was, we're able to fund the school, the library, the clinic, and improve the lives of all the people in this village outside of Jericho. So we spent all day shooting this scene. It was unbelievable. I rolled couscous with them, then they all cook lunch together. Eat lunch, and then they go home because they work early in the morning and end about noon when the heat of the day just gets too hot at that time of year. The woman turns to us, the person who was really the driving force that started this whole thing, and says, would you come home to my house? My husband would like to meet you. We said, sure. As we're getting into the vans, several of our security details said to me, do you know who her husband is? I said, I have no idea. And she said, her husband is. I think it was Abu Abbas. He was the head of the PLO's propaganda machine when Arafat was in power. He was the person, famously, for people who are a little bit older and remember these sort of things in the news, I think it was in the late 70s or early 80s. Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, put a bomb inside a book that he opened, and it, it failed. All of the explosives didn't go off, so he lived. But the gunpowder streaked his face with streaks of gray and black into his skin. And the Israelis had, had found him confined, confined him to house arrest, hence the tanks on the hill. And I was very eager to meet him and talk to him. And I say this as, as someone who, I mean, I'm Jewish and in the entertainment business in America. I mean, I'm exactly what this guy has, has spent his life, you know, rallying against and, But I was eager to meet him because I, I, I wanted to see what he was all about. I wanted to ask him, what's up with all the. Why all the hate, dude, you know, and I know that sounds really, know. I wanted, in my own way, to see what was. I never had an opportunity to do that. And like I said, I'm endlessly curious. So we go to the house, we have some mango juice. He's very polite. He says, I'd love to show you my office. We all go down, by the way, cameras are rolling. We go down to his office. And on his office, just like, you know, on my wall, I have pictures of my friends. There's a picture of him with every famous terrorist there is, you know, and when I say every, I mean every. Yeah, And I was, I was stunned. It gave me chills. And I sat there. His. His daughter, this is like his third marriage. His wife, he was in his probably 70s, his current wife was in her 40s. They had a five year old playing on the. The ground. And I said to him, and I said, forget about you and me, but shouldn't your. Shouldn't your daughter and my son be able to live together in peace and harmony? Don't we, don't we want that at the end of the day? And he just looked at me as he sipped his juice. And I mean very matter of factly. He neither was smiling nor scowling very neutrally. He just said, my daughter's daughter's daughter will bathe in the blood of your son's children's children, and sipped his juice.

[Mick]

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The podcast, the book, the events, the.

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[Andrew Zimmern]

And I looked at him and I said, you really believe that? He said, yes, I, yes, I do. He says, that's, that's our commitment. He was filled with so much hate and so much rage that that's all he saw as an outcome. And I thanked him for his hospitality and we left. Now, I didn't, I already didn't like him and his peers going in, right? But I was, I, I was in his home and a lot of friends of mine are like, why would you even go to his home? I said I needed to hear it out of his mouth. Was he really that filled with hate? Was he really that angry? Was he really living out these thousands of years of history and refusing to let go of any other outcome? And in fact, this gentleman was. And yet there was. And, and I mean this in, in, in the most serious way, I understood him and his people who also believe this 1% more, 2% more. I didn't agree with it, but I understood it more. And so at the end of the day, whether it's with a family in Lapland crushing crayfish and eating little blueberry pancakes made with reindeer milk, or having juice with an internationally known terrorist. Sharing food is a neutral ground over which we can communicate with each other, and it has immense value. Now I happen to find more immense value when I. When I bring neighbors, friends and loved ones together to celebrate, to take a respite from how hard the world is. I. I enjoy it more when I'm visiting you wherever you live, and we connect and you take me out to a restaurant I've never been to before, and we laugh and I realize, geez, I've never met this guy. Look at how much I have in Kai. I thought we were just bald dudes with glasses. It turns out like we're living the same life, Right?

[Mick]

There you go.

[Andrew Zimmern]

This is the beauty. This is the beauty of our time that's here on planet Earth.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

And I think the dining table, metaphorically speaking, is the best place to put aside grievances and, and, and share with people. I did it so often that, that I proposed to the production company that we shoot a show called Dinner with the Dictator. Because I thought, you know, you see all these news guys and, and anchor women, and everyone is going in to talk to some international narco terrorist or some evil, you know, autocrat in some faraway country, and they get the big interview and they ask them all about international geopolitical matters and stuff like that, and a lot of people, frankly, tune out. And I'm sitting there talking to this guy about his kid and his office and the pictures, and when was this tape. We're just two dudes, you know, shooting the crap. You know, until I wanted to ask him the big question that I was most curious about. And I think that when you say, I'm such a good storyteller. Thank you. I, I take that as a high compliment from someone like yourself who pays attention to this stuff. I. I find that I have a really good editor that's number one. Most importantly, anyone who's in my kind of media, we have great editors. Right. But I also, I think on camera, I have something that I don't have in my real life, which is the most amount of patience and curiosity when the camera is rolling. I understand my job. I am the avatar for everyone who's sitting on a couch watching it. And so I try to be like them and channel them and ask the questions. I think I would want to know if I was on a couch somewhere. And I try to be somewhat entertaining and along the way it's, it's worked and it's, it's just a muscle that happens automatically. I leave tomorrow. I'm shooting something in Illinois for a project that I, I am not allowed to talk about. But it's a, it's a, another piece of content that I'm making and it's a two or three day shoot and my production company is the one who's making the show. And you know, we, we had a pre production meeting that lasted like three minutes. And the reason was, is that all these people I've worked with for years making my other shows and they, they said, yeah, you're just going to do what you do all the time. I'm like, right, you know, and you could boundary it whoever you want. I mean, we're not shooting live. You know, the director can always say, ask this question or don't stand there, stand here, whatever it is, but I'm just gonna do what I do. You, you and anyone who hires me for a job knows I'm just gonna do what I do. I don't, I don't act. I don't pretend to be something that I'm not. I'm the same person if you and I had dinner than I would be if you're watching me have dinner with someone on camera. I'm, I'm that dude.

[Mick]

And it is much appreciated. It is much appreciated. So let's talk about something that you actually can discuss and talk about. So I teased it in the beginning.

For those that don't know, I reached.

Out to Andrew, said, hey, my wife and I's anniversary is coming up. And Andrew goes, mick, I got something for you.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Yeah.

[Mick]

And he sends me this book, the Blue Food Cookbook. My wife loves seafood. I mean, I love seafood as well too, but my wife being a native Californian.

Seafood and tacos.

And if you can figure out how to put those together, like, she's in heaven. So she opens the book and she starts thumbing through these menus. And it is rare for my wife to say, oh, I like this, or I'm impressed by this. It is rare. She stops and she says, honey, there's like four recipes and I'm only on the fifth one that I want to like start making, like this weekend. And I said, yes, ma'.

[Shopify Representative]

Am.

[Mick]

So Andrew, talk to us about the. It says cookbook, but it, but it is a book as well too. Talk to us a little bit about the, the why, the because behind the book and what people can get out of it.

[Andrew Zimmern]

We have a lot of problems in the world. I believe eating more seafood and protecting our oceans allows us to produce more out of them. It's not my idea. Jacques Cousteau said that in 1957.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

The, the answers to all of our problems I can tell through food. And I have several different lenses that say the word food on them that I use to point out what those solutions are. My most frequently used lens is the one that says blue food on it. Blue food is all the food, vegetables included. Think seaweed and other lichens and underwater vegetables that are edible. Any food that comes from the ocean, the rivers, the streams, the lakes, the ponds, and there's lots of them. We, we have confused the consumer about what to buy and how to cook it. We have tons of myths about seafood. It's too expensive. It makes my house smell. My kids won't eat it. Ask any mother in Scandinavia or Japan or coastal Africa or anywhere else in the world where there's water and food that comes from it. If their kids don't eat seafood now it's in America. Don't eat it's in America. Right? We have this problem, right? We have, we have done some irreparable damage to our planet. Some man made, some not necessarily man made. But the solution to all of it is to protect our oceans, which produce a vast amount of, of oxygen. If we, if we, and sequesters a lot of CO2 and if we were able to eat more meals out of the ocean, we would eat fewer meals from the green economy. Specifically from domesticated animals like chickens, pigs, goats and lambs and cows. Now I love those animals. I am not a vegan or vegetarian, although I eat less meat than I ever have in my life currently. But the, the reason is, is that we're losing vast amounts of acreage on planet earth every second. Taking down forests to create arable land. Not to feed human beings, but to grow food to feed animals that we eat. So we are literally devouring our own planet. It is the least sustainable, least regenerative action in human history.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

The ocean has vast amount of food. However, we only eat a narrow, narrow portion of it. You know, tuna, halibut, shrimp. Add one or two other things to salmon right now. Do we have recipes for those things in the book? Yes, but the majority of the book is about a lot of things that you can do with filter feeders like mussels, oysters and clams, tin fish, smaller species that, that are closer to shore, that not only are fresher, not only are being carried now in more seafood shops. And supermarkets than ever before. But also ones that are being farmed on land or at sea. Right. And aquaculture, the farming of seafood is, is safe, it is profitable for those that do, is cost effective for the consumer because as demand for it rises, the producers have the system and the distribution points to create more seafood for us to eat. Grown in an aquaculture system. And for the first time in human history, it's essentially, essentially, yes, there are a couple bad actors out there. It's not perfect, but essentially problem free. We've eliminated copper netting. The, the, the feed ratio is now one to one or better. Right. We are not growing fish in overcrowded pens. We now have a system to feed them where the food is not dropping through these pens and causing pollution on the ocean floor. I mean, all the problems with aquaculture from the 70s have been solved. We need more investment in things like aquaculture globally to feed a hungrier and hungrier planet and less rainbow chasing like cell based fish or seafood that will not scale for 20 years and will still be too expensive for the average consumer to, to afford. I believe that there isn't a problem that we have. Hunger, food waste, national security, international security, economic job equity, gender equity, pay equity, immigration, climate crisis. I've just named 10. I can probably think of more, but you know, let's just leave it. You get the idea.

[Mick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Zimmern]

That doesn't have a substantial amount of solution to be found in how we interact with our oceans, rivers, streams, lakes, our ecosystem. That's blue. And so the idea was to create a fun, awesome cookbook. 145 great recipes. Thank your wife for me. She understood the assignment.

[Mick]

She did.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Great recipes. Co authored by my colleague Barton Seaver, in collaboration with Fed by Blue and pictures by Eric Wolfinger. The photography's fantastic, the art illustrations by Yulia Shevchenko. Fantastic. We all created a book that has these incredible recipes, but we also have a hundred plus pages of how to understand the blue world, exactly how to purchase fish, where to turn to to learn today, which is going to be different than two months from now. Is it okay to eat this fish in this part of the world? Right. Because fish are moving around all the time in our oceans. Right. We don't have mercury poisoning in, in an aquaculture system, but we hear all the time about tests on fish one day that are fine in the same school of fish. A month later. There's rising mercury levels. Right. So we need to know what to eat and when to eat. It's very confusing for consumers. We also, and pardon Me if I made this joke before, but, you know, no one ever walked into a supermarket and said, can you point me to the wild chickens? Right. So I don't understand what the problem is with farmed fish. We, we eat cheap commodity farm chicken. That's probably the worst food for you on planet Earth. Not chicken. I'm talking about this. The. The really, really, really bad commodity stuff. Right? Yeah, we eat that like crazy. It's so awful for you. These chickens that are in confinement cages and so on. Cows that are sitting up to their knees in their own excrement. Pigs, same thing. The commercialized big ag meat industry is so much less clean. And so. But they just generate so much income that, that Washington D.C. and our state houses find it almost impossible to legislate or mandate that they clean up their systems. Yeah, right. They have incredible lobbying groups. You know, beef, it's what's for dinner. Pork, you know, the other white meat. The other white meat. You know, these. All of these groups have incredible big lobbying efforts and seafood doesn't have an organized body. Right. Because it's spread all over the place. And because of that, I think we need books like ours to kind of let people know that as a, as a consumer, as an eater, as a good global citizen, you can make a big difference by eating seafood, but you can make an even bigger difference for your family. Eating healthy, nutritious protein and, and do it in a way that I think is stylish and fun and make the world a better place and make your house a better place for everyone who's in it.

[Mick]

Amen to that, brother. Amen to that. Where do you want people to buy and find the book?

[Andrew Zimmern]

Where can you go? The Blue Food Cookbook. You plug that into, you know, any search engine and up will pop. You know, go to Amazon, go to your local bookstore. The. If it's before October 28th, the book is, you could preorder it on Amazon. You can go to andrew zimmern.com the minute the website opens, the first thing you'll see is where to buy the book. And I'm really excited for the public to. To see it. The. The advanced copy that you have is. Is something that when I open mine and started flipping through it, I was like, damn, this turned out good. We're very, very proud of it.

[Mick]

So different in a very good way. I mean, you start with stories, you know, you start with almost. I call it the. Because it's like, it's the. Because of what we're doing here. Amazing photos there's even a recipe. So it's fall, and I love a good crumble. And, oh, yeah, you've got a kelp crumble in here. And I told wifey, I don't know.

Where I'm going to get kelp, but we're doing this.

[Andrew Zimmern]

Do you want to say that's amazing? You know, everyone has different tastes. The lasagna recipe with seaweed layered in it was one that Barton developed, and it was the first one that I made when we were exchanging recipes, you know, because we're co authoring this thing, so we're exchanging all of our work, lengthy process, and that little bit of brininess, that little bit of oceanic salt. And people put spinach inside their lasagna all the time. Well, seaweed is arguably the healthiest thing that you can eat that exists on planet Earth, right? Great for your brain, your joints. I mean, nothing has more collagen, glucosamine, chondroitin, vitamins. I mean, it's just. It is a. You talk about superfoods. Most seaweed falls into the superfood category. And whether it's fresh or dried and rehydrated, treated the right way, you can use it in all kinds of things. I am never making lasagna without it. It gave a counterpoint. Great food is about contrast without getting too chef nerdy on you. But think ice cream cone, warm, crunchy cone, cold, soft ice cream, right? It is a contrasting flavor and umami bomb that no lasagna should ever be made without it. And we wanted to. We have a seaweed salad in there, I think is one of my recipes that's in that section. And we have five or six recipes. They're great. The brownies with seaweed in it are fantastic. It turns out seaweed and chocolate have an incredible affinity for each other. I know there's people listening to this saying, that dude is crazy. And if you. If you watch my stuff for 25 years, you might be right. However, I would encourage people to try it once, and then you tell me if those brownies aren't delicious.

[Mick]

There we go. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been Andrew Zimmer. Andrew, brother, I could talk to you and listen to you all day. I know how busy you are, so I'm just honored that you blessed us with your time and energy today, man. Like, I can't thank you enough for this book, Wifey. You're gonna know I didn't buy it, but Andrew gave it to us as a gift.

But I appreciate you, brother.

[Andrew Zimmern]

I really, really, really. Thanks, Mick. It's great to finally talk to you.

[Mick]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And we should do it again. I know you're busy, but we'll find some time and maybe we'll just go through the book and we'll talk through a handful of these recipes. I still want people to buy the book.

[Andrew Zimmern]

I spend a lot of time traveling. Next time I roll through your town, we'll have dinner.

[Mick]

Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm sure our paths will cross somewhere. Even if it's not here, we'll be in the same city somewhere soon.

[Andrew Zimmern]

100% cool. 100%.

[Mick]

Thank you brother. And for all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower, Go unleash it.

You've been plugged into Mick Unplugged. Don't just listen. Take action, rate and subscribe.

Follow me on Social and get the.

Full [e-mail] keep building, keep leading, and.

Most importantly, keep dominating.

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