Mick Hunt (3:03)

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of MC Unplugged. And today we are diving deep with the visionary who is reshaping our understanding of human potential, the future of leadership.

Rudy Rush (3:15)

He has a GED and several Hartford

Mick Hunt (3:19)

degrees to back it up. But the most important part of this conversation to me is he is a New England patriot diehard just as much as I am. So please join me in welcoming the insight, the visionary, the incomparable. My God, Mr. Todd Rose. Todd, how you doing today, bro? Great.

Todd Rose (3:36)

It's good to see you.

Mick Hunt (3:36)

Good to see you too, man. There's a lot I want to get into. I'm a huge fan of the work that you do, but I'm an even bigger fan of your journey, bro. And you know, like, you have a story that only Pirose can tell and I'm so proud of you, man. And, you know, I always start my conversations with my guest by asking them what is their. Because that thing that's deeper than your. Why that your true accountability. And it changes over time. So if I were to say, TY ROSE Today, 2023, what is your. Because why do you keep doing the things that you do?

Todd Rose (4:09)

Yeah, that's. I love this about what you do. And it. It's made me think deeper than why, you know, as. As you taught us the. You know, it's funny, I. I'd like to think that it's different than it's been, but, but actually my. Because that still animates me. It. It's blossomed and grown, but it really came back to this moment in Layton, Utah, in a hospital room when I held my son for the very first time. And, you know, I was 19. I probably don't recommend that as a. As a starting point. You know, you'd mentioned I have a ged. I didn't even have that yet. I had been kicked out of high school with a 0.9 GPA. I had had a string of minimum wage jobs. And here I am sitting there and they hand me my son. Austin is his name. And I just realized, you know, it was one thing to mess up your own life. It. It's very different when you realize the responsibility you had to this. This person that didn't ask to be born. Right. And, you know, the reason this became important to me is it kicked off. I didn't necessarily believe in myself then, but I knew I had to do right by my son. And so that became a really powerful because for me and you know, since then, and we can talk about that journey, really, that, that because led to a series of other becausees along the way. So, you know, here I am. I had had like 10 minimum wage jobs in two years. Everybody was frustrated with me. I knew something had to change. And I decided I'd get my GED and I would try my hand at college. Which is kind of funny since, you know, high school, literally 0.9 GPA. Like, I didn't even get socially promoted, right? Like, this was so bad. And you know, my dad told me, hey, look, he said, I think you're really smart, but you have to be motivated. He's like, when you're not motivated, you're GPU just not very good. Which is so true. Like, if I'm passionate, I'm on fire. And I. And I'm as good as anybody, but the second I'm not, it's really hard. And so I decided, okay, I'm going to go to college. And I. I went to Weber State University in Ogden, Utah. This is where Dame Lillard went. That's our only claim to fame. And you know, I was, I was just. I knew that what I had done before hadn't worked. Trying to, to learn the way everybody told me people were supposed to learn. And I really recognized there was something different about me and I needed to embrace that. And, you know, I was doing okay. And there was this really defining moment for me, which unlocked another because. And it was this. So I'm sitting in a really large auditorium for a history class, which I tried to avoid. That kind of setup didn't work so well for me. And I was complaining to my friend Steve about it, that, you know, this was not a good setup. And he says, he goes, well, this is nothing compared to the. What I got myself into in the honors program. And I was like, I don't even know what that is. And he said, oh, it's so bad. He said, there aren't big auditoriums. They're just like 10 people in a class. And I was like, well, that's interesting. And he said, there are no tests. You just write stuff that's interesting too. And then he goes, I don't even think there are right answers. All we do is argue all the time. And I was like, this sounds amazing. Like, I didn't never in a million years thought that it could be that way, that learning could be. And so I immediately bolted up to the honors program. It was on top of the hill, had its own little second floor. Of the library. And I went in and I said, I want to see the director of the program and the secretary who's one of the most important people in my life and gave me a new. Because her name was Marilyn Diamond. And she said, okay, let me get you in. And I sit down with the. With the. The director of the honors program. And I said, I want to be in the program. And he said, that's great. Just a few questions. He said, what was your high school GPA? And there's no kidding. I said, 0.9. And his response was, what?09? Like, I. Like I left off the most important part. And I said, oh. And he was really nice about it. He said, you know, I'm sorry you can't be in the honors program. You know, I was so mortified. I grabbed my stuff and I just as fast I could get out of there and go crawl in a hole. And as I'm walking out of his office, Marilyn diamond, her desk was right next to the door, and I'm walking past, and she reached out and grabbed my arm, and she said, listen, I overheard the conversation. If you want this, don't take no for an answer. And I was like, wait, you can do that. And she said, sit on that couch and don't leave until he let you in. So I did, and for a few hours, and finally he called me back in, and he said, you know, look, why do you want to be an honors program? Like, on paper, it makes no sense. And I started explaining that I'd learned a lot about myself in the first year or so. I was there, and I knew what it took for me to. To do well. And this all seemed to be a perfect environment. And he said, okay, I'm gonna let you in on a provisional basis. And he said, you take one class, and if you do well, you can take another and another Flash forward. I ended up graduating as the honor student of the year three years later with a 3.97 GPA. And I had just gotten into Harvard for my doctorate. And I shared this because it. It taught me something really important that became not just personal. It's still personal because. But is driving everything I've done since, which was. I was still the same kid. So the kid that had done so poorly, it taught me two things. One, the incredible value of fit. Right? So we tend to think I try something once, I don't do well, I'm not good enough at it. That's not what I'm like. Your strategy could be wrong. It could be the Wrong environment. But getting that fit between you and your environment is so important. And things get a lot easier when you get that fit. The second thing was, you know, I, I had sort of thought about talent and potential as almost like this thing I do. There's something inside me, and if I work hard enough, it'll come out and it'll be fine. What it taught me. And I have a dozen other stories just like it was. Yeah, you gotta work really hard, but there's a role for other people in your success that is so important. And again, it doesn't negate that. I worked hard. I did. But Marilyn diamond, you know, she changed my life. And here's what's really funny. Just a couple of years ago, Weber State invited me back and gave me an honor, right? Like, hey, look, you did good. And I'm sitting there in this auditorium, I'm speaking to all these people, and I found out that Marilyn diamond was retiring. And she was there in the audience. I thought, well, what a great chance to, to really acknowledge the role she's played. So I told the crowd some version of the story I just told you. And the, the president of the university says, marilyn, why don't you come up and say a few words? She comes up, she's short, she adjusts the mic, and she says, you know, Todd, it's good to see you. I have to admit, I, I don't remember this. And I thought, I thought she was saying I was lying or something and I was like, oh, it happened. She goes, no, no, I believe it happened. I just don't remember it. Well, it turns out everybody had a Marilyn diamond story because that's the kind of person she was. And it really dawned on me that when it comes to our role in other people's lives, we tend to think that it's going to be some Herculean effort, right? Like, like when in reality, this thing that was life changing for me was so inconsequential, she didn't even remember it. And you know, so when we think about what, what it means to, to develop our fullest potential, make our best contributions to society, succeed, you know, there does involve other people and we can be that for other people as well.

Mick Hunt (11:12)

And that story, hearing you say it in that just. I've heard it before, but I've never heard it one directly from you. And the detail that you gave is so touching, man, because, you know, one of the things that I heard in that story is keep going, right? Like what happens, you got to keep going. But there's a couple of things I want to unplug because you and I have so many similarities in what we talk to business leaders about. And I want to start with this one right here. I think as leaders, a lot of times we ask our team members to do too much because of what the title says, right?

Todd Rose (11:46)

Yeah.

Mick Hunt (11:46)

And. And when there's a title, and I don't care how big the title is, it could be a small title, but we like to encompass a lot of responsibilities into one human. And we forget the gift or the actual skill set that was why we hired them or why we have them a part of the team in the first place. I'd love to get your take on that because I've heard you talk about it. But a lot of times I'm going to use salespeople as an example. Right. We've got a salesperson or salespeople that are killing it, but then we want them to do admin work or we ask them to that aren't sales. And so then when they struggle, it's like, well, what do they struggle with?

Rudy Rush (12:22)

And it has nothing to do with sales.

Mick Hunt (12:24)

Right.

Rudy Rush (12:24)

It's all the other things.

Mick Hunt (12:26)

Or we have people that we don't have sales roles. And I hate when people say, but everybody sells, but whatever, then pay them to do that or hire them for that specific thing. When they don't do that, it's not there. Or we have people that are to do research and development, but we also want them to do these two or three things and that dilutes who they actually are. And a lot of times forces people to leave.

Rudy Rush (12:49)

So, Todd, really, every year people set fitness goals, and every year most people quit because they overcomplicate it or follow bad advice online. You don't need another influencer telling you what worked for them. You need something built for you. And that is why I use fitbod. Fitbod takes the thinking out of training. I open the app, it knows my goals, my recovery, how much time I have, and what equipment I'm working with. The workout is ready. No guesswork, no wasted reps. It honestly feels like having a personal trainer in your pocket. The workouts adapt as you get stronger, push you when you're ready, and help you stay consistent even when you're traveling or short on time. That's the difference. Consistency beats motivation every time. Level up your workout in the new year. Join Fitbod today to get your personalized workout plan. Get 25% off your subscription or try the app free for seven days at Fitbod Me Mick that's F I T B O D Me Mikk before everyone started talking about AI, I was focused on one thing, getting my time back. I run multiple brands, podcasts, events and content. If something can be automated, it should be. That's where Zapier comes in. We talk a lot about trends on this show, but trends don't make you more efficient, tools do. Zapier is how you can cut through the AI hype and actually put it to work. My team uses Zapier to connect the platforms we already use. Forms and CRMs, content workflows, follow ups and more. No tech headaches, no bottlenecks. It just runs in the background while we focus on leading. Zapier lets you connect AI tools like ChatGPT or Claude directly into your workflow. From enriching leads to supporting sales or resolving issues, it works where you work. Join the 3.4 million companies already automating with Zapier and transform how you work with Zapier and AI. Get started for free by visiting Zapier.com Mick that's Z-A P I E R.com

Mick Hunt (15:06)

M I C K Listen, you're.

Todd Rose (15:10)

I'll just say amen to that and I'll just push down on that a little bit like the it. It's kind of remarkable, right? So first of all, you know, my professional background early when I was a professor was in the methodologies that, that study science at an individual level. So things that give rise to like personalized medicine, personalized learning, personalized nutrition. And when we start looking at individuals instead of groups of individuals, what we find is this really cool idea. It's called the jaggedness principle, which is human beings are multi dimensional. Right. Makes sense. Like take body size. Size is not one dimension, right. Height, weight, chest, circumference, whatever, same is true cognitively, all this stuff and what we look at is we tend to think with body size, well, there's a small, medium, large, extra large, as if it just scales up. It's not how it works. It is, it's remarkable. So everyone's jagged is that is they're going to be on the high end on some things, on the low end on others, and in the middle on some things. Every single human being. And the reason this is really important is the best. If I were king for a day, the best possible thing I would tell a leader to put people in positions where they're really going to thrive is and contribute is if you could, I still believe in, you know, division of labor. Great. And specialization but you really gotta do two things. One, where's your comparative advantage? Right? So, like, I'm actually better at this thing because of my jaggedness. Two, I have to care about it. If I don't care, like, as you know, like, listen, I will tell you, like, if you can have all the talent in the world and you don't care about the work you're doing, it's not meaningful to you. There's only so far you're gonna get. But what's so funny is this idea of, like, job titles and job descriptions is a relic of the age of standardization, where we thought first about, like, literally, like, Frederick Taylor is the guy that really implemented all this in society in the 1930s, and we're still living in his shadow today, where he really saw. He said, forget about talent. We just want people to be able to be interchangeable parts. And he really meant that. Like, you just plug people in. And so in that case, the job description became everything, and you just kind of wedged people in. Well, when you realize and take into account human jaggedness and the fact that everybody can be excellent at something, but no one's excellent at everything, you find you get people into that space where it's like, to your. To your example, they might be like the best salesperson that you have, and for whatever reason, you put more on their plate and doing things that at best, they're mediocre. Like, at best, and at worst, it's literally draining the passion that they have. And then they end up exiting and you get into this sort of like, treadmill of like, hire rehire, and it's just, it's. It's wild. You know, I. My dad, who just retired, he designed airbags for a living. One of the one literally has so many patents in that space to save so many people's lives. The president of the Autoleave, which was the airbag company, told me personally, if it weren't for my dad's inventions in this razor thin margin industry, they might be out of business. Okay, awesome. Congratulations. He loves it. Like, he was built to be an engineer in this space. Well, as everything's succeeding. And he's like, of course I'd like to make a little more money and be recognized. And they're like, well, the only way you can do that is you have to get on the management track. And I'm like, listen, I love my dad. He would be a terrible manager, right? He just wants to get the job done. He doesn't want to deal with people like this. And it's like, you structured something where the only way they can be acknowledged and rewarded for their contributions is to change what it is they're doing. Like, it makes no sense. Now, to their credit, they made one carve out. My dad's name's Larry. They gave him the Larry carve out. So they let him have this path of an engineering path. And I'm like, why would that be specific to him? Like, let people do what they are good at and passionate about and everybody's better off.

Mick Hunt (18:42)

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing, man. Totally amazing. And another thing that I've learned directly from you, and it's weird because I've been. I have this concept that I call get out of your bed, right? And it's B, E, D. The beliefs, the excuses, the decisions that limit you from becoming the best person that you can be. And then I got introduced to this book called Collective Illusion. And I sat there and said, not that it validated my thoughts on beliefs, excuses, and decisions, but it gave me a deeper way to look at how we do those exact things. And so I want to give you the floor to talk about collective illusions. You know, what was the framework that said, yep, I need to do this book, and this is the book now. And then let's get into it a little bit, man. Because changed my life.

Todd Rose (19:29)

Well, so I didn't, like, it was not on my bingo card to be in this. This line of work. I just follow the things that matter to me. You know, it. A couple of things that I care deeply about that might qualify as my. Because now I. Because of my own journey. And look, I've been at the very bottom academically, I've been arguably at the top. And what I realized is, all along the way, there were people with unbelievable potential and, you know, for some lucky breaks or whatever. And you just realized we had a. A system that not only didn't try to cultivate it, it just didn't care. Right. It was about selection rather than development of people. And in. In my wonky beliefs, like, as an academic, I care a lot about positive sum systems, right? So we treat the world like a zero sum. Like, for me to win, you have to lose. And it's just not true. Is not true. The pie can grow not just materially, but also psychologically. Right? Like, my thriving can benefit you, and your thriving can benefit me. Well, so I was obsessed with, like, okay, how do we create the conditions for that kind of positive sum society? And it was funny, it was in. Before the 2016 election, like, we were working on something and realized, oh wow, hold on. We thought we were doing like polling to try to understand where people were. And then it was like, what just happened? Like nobody saw this coming. And we realized what he's like, what's going on? So we started digging in and it turned out that people just didn't feel comfortable being honest about their views. And it was shocking. Like, in fact, to this day, like right now, just a couple months ago, our last stuff we did. Two thirds of Americans right now admit to self silencing that they are not telling the truth. And every single demographic group in the country is outright lying on multiple issues that matter in ways that distort fundamentally what we think those groups believe. So we were digging in and we're like, wait, why would, why would people say things they don't agree with? And my background's in neuroscience and psychology. And I was like, okay, so there's group think. But like, so we thought, well maybe that's it, maybe they're just going along. But they kept seeing me agreeing to things publicly that I was like, that's weird. And so we started asking a simple question. In everything we, we were doing with polling back then, we said, what do you think most other people would say to this question? And that was a simple unlock because we had all the data on what people really believed. And then they kept saying, well, I don't think anyone else agrees with this. Or I was like, you're just spectacularly wrong. So here's, so here's what it is. Collective illusions are simply group think. But you're wrong about the group, if you can imagine that. Right. Group thinks bad enough, they don't just go along with the crowd to go along. But that's even if the crowd is right and you're just changing your mind. So, so collective illusions happen where like whole groups of people end up going along with something they don't personally agree with just because they incorrectly think that most everybody else agrees with it. So therefore group think, but you're wrong about the group. And you might think like this, heck, this would be kind of rare, like how often this happened. But because of social media, it's just everywhere, everywhere. Like our, my think tank populace is most famous now for this private opinion research. Right. That can get around the distortions of social pressure. It's, it's just wild. Like you name anything that matters in this country right now, it's a coin toss whether you're even right about what most Americans believe.

Mick Hunt (22:48)

Yeah, yeah. And isn't it crazy when you really break that down. What I appreciate about collective illusion is while you talk theory, there's a lot of research that backs up the things that you were actually countering a little bit. Right. So again, this is why I love it. I'm a, I'm a researcher, history nut. Anyway, so there are a few things in there. I'm like, dang it, why didn't I think of that? Right? So give us a couple examples of some of these collective illusions that, that we've had past, recent, whatever.

Todd Rose (23:18)

So I'll give you a couple recently. One that was pretty politically charged and then one that's not, I think is more important. And we could, we could, we could spend all day talking about this. It's unfortunately, they're just all over the place. So remember the defund the police movement, whatever true injustices that they're addressing, the idea that you're going to essentially defund the police, there was at its peak on that in, in 2020, over 60% of Democrats publicly said that they supported defunding the police. We had private opinion data on it that showed it was never more than 9%.

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Todd Rose (25:27)

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Well, okay, except for politicians implemented policies in places like San Francisco and Seattle and everything because they thought that's what people wanted. And it, those were disastrous. Not just in my opinion, they've since rolled back those policies. Right. And it's like it's bad enough when you get sort of bad policies because people actually wanted them, but it's pretty tragic when it's all done under a collective illusion. Right? You just thought this is what you were supposed to say. Okay, but here's a, here's a. More like, I think a more profound one is the biggest collective illusions we've ever identified have to do with success, what a successful life is. And if you think about what, what's really more important than the kind of life you aspire to, right. That you want to live. So we did the largest private opinion study ever on how people define a successful life. And the thing that I'm really proud of on this research and it's all available on our website, you're going to see it is with success you can't have everything. It's always a trade off. Right? And so we studied, we used a methodology called Conjoint, which is really cool. It forces real world trade offs and it's impossible to game. And so I can get for you what your trade off priorities are for a successful life. And we studied over 65 of these things. Everything from being the richest person, you know, to having a family, everything in between. Now here's what's crazy. When we had them do the, the private opinion instrument for themselves and then we say, after each question we say, well, what do you Think most people would say, right, so we're building a model of what they think everybody cares about and what they really do. So this was wild. The number one thing that people think that most other people care about for, for success is being famous. Like kind of, kind of tracks in private it is dead last, dead last. And instead when, when you look at what people privately aspire to, the number one thing they actually care about is doing work that has a positive influence on other people. They want to contribute. Like that's number one for the life they want to live. The other things that really blew my mind in the top 10 for every demographic are all character related things, their relationships. And this one blew my mind. Every single demographic has in their top 10 wanting to be actively involved in their community. Wow, I never. Now they're not getting it. And in fact we measured achievement on these things. Like how you doing right? Turns out being involved in your community is the lowest achieved of any top 10 priority. There's no kidding. More people in our study reported being debt free than involved in their community at the level they want to be like. So here we have this, we, we have this American public across demographics, including young, our, the youngest, you know, Gen Z in our studies, they, they aspire to live lives of, of meaning and purpose and contribution and they're not getting it right. And when what they think, well what do they think society cares about? Fame, fortune, power. And so it's not. It, it's fine. Like I like, I love what I do and I also like the fact that, that something I've did matter to you, right? It's nothing wrong with wanting other people to see you as successful. Nothing wrong at all. But you can see the slippery slope where I can either do the thing I care about and then hope people acknowledge it, or if I think, listen, I think everyone else cares about fame. So if I chase fame then people will think I'm successful. And this is as you know, this is a dead end because we look at our research and we also study how people think about their lives. Like life satisfaction achieving on your own private priorities is the fastest way to having much higher life satisfaction. Like it's, it's incredible. No amount of achievement on things that other people cared about increases life satisfaction at all. So that's it. So for me it's like there are literally we found these collective illusions on almost a hundred different issues so far. This one around success to me matters most because as we start to corrupt the choices we make about the lives we live, it's a dead end for us. It's the fastest way to, like, being miserable and resentful and things like that. And meanwhile, we don't want to do it. And so as. As we get back to who we really are and we try to reclaim some of that authenticity. That's the kryptonite of collective illusions. It's like, I have a lot of hope for us individually and and collectively as a people.

Mick Hunt (30:15)

Dude, you. You've blown my mind. It's a book, man, that, like, you, you can't put down when you get into it. And that's what I love, again, the research aspect of it. You know, we were talking about early education when we started this. And one of the things that I did uniquely different with my children was have the conversation about research and debate more than you actually do work. A lot of parents, as my kids were growing up, they were like, well, well, why are you doing that? Or why is that something that you do? And I said, well, one, I didn't have the Internet when I was a kid, so it was one of those things where when somebody told you something,

Rudy Rush (30:54)

it was the same thing they told

Mick Hunt (30:55)

your parents and maybe even your grandparents, right? And so it was just kind of like there was no growth for what we were doing. Like, I want my kids to be smarter, more educated than I was, and I was an honor student, right? But it was what I learned was when I debated, when I had debate, I cared more and I researched more and I could argue points back better, and I remember things more. And to me, that's what. That. That's what collective illusions takes me back to is, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna argue, I'm gonna debate, but I'm gonna do it with stats versus opinion. Right?

Todd Rose (31:31)

I love what you're bringing up here because if you think about it, how far ahead you were on this. Because if I were thinking about what it means to prepare kids for an age where AI I know we're sick of talking about it everywhere, but, like, it will be the new operating system for society. And it is. It is an answer machine, right? It's, you know, search was. Search. Now it's no, it's. It's answers. And it, like, we've trained generations of kids in school to be answer machines. Like, there's a right answer. Learn how to say it. And, you know, you see some of the most worst excess of that in higher ed right now, where they don't even know how to debate. They just know that there's a right thing to say, and then they're just stuck. But, like, I would say the single most important thing to prepare a kid with be exactly what you did. Because it, like, we are going to go through some really interesting times, and the people that can actually think for themselves, argue constructively, are going to grow and they're going to surf this wave. And if you're one of those answer machines, you are going to get crushed by it. It is going to be really tough.

Mick Hunt (32:27)

Yeah. Totally agree, man. Totally agree. Well, Todd, dude, I could talk. I could talk with you forever. We didn't even talk about the Patriots, bro.

Todd Rose (32:34)

Like, because we're gonna have to have our own podcast.

Mick Hunt (32:38)

Yes. After Dark.

Todd Rose (32:42)

Patriots.

Mick Hunt (32:42)

After Dark. Patriots. After Dark. I will have bourbon because it will be dark time, and I'm allowed to have bourbon when it's dark.

Todd Rose (32:49)

Listen. No, no kidding. Coming back from the super bowl, my buddy and I were like, what are we gonna do? This was awful. We pulled in and literally went and got a high west bourbon and just drowned our sorrows right after the game.

Mick Hunt (33:04)

So much that we have in common, Todd. Like, I don't know how we haven't got.

Todd Rose (33:09)

Like, we're going to remedy that. We gotta hang out.

Mick Hunt (33:12)

Absolutely. One of the things I want to do, Todd, and I do this especially with authors that I love and books that I love. And it's become, like, a popular part of my show, apparently, because I get more. I get more DMs when I do this than anything in the world. If you DM me collective, and if you can spell it right, you get bonus points. The first 20. I'm going to go ahead. When this recording is over, I'm going to order 20 copies of the book and I'm going to send out that copy to the first 20 people that message me collectively. As always, if you're number 21, I apologize, but you can go get it yourself because you could. And tied for number 21 through 2000. Where can they get their copy of the Amazon?

Todd Rose (33:55)

Is everything right? It's. I was just told it's been a funny thing because the book came out. It's been a few years now, but it sort of now has provided answers to some of the things we've been missing. The way social media distorts, what kids think. Like, some of the problems, everything from, you know, a lot of the problems in the world. And so it's. It just had another spike. It got sold out, but I was just told that there's more in stock now, so that's good.

Mick Hunt (34:21)

All right. So 21 through 20,000, you got to go to Amazon Collective illusions. But the first 20 that message me, that message me collective, I've got you covered. I'm going to get you out of here on my rapid fire quick. Five questions. Ready?

Todd Rose (34:36)

I'm ready.

Mick Hunt (34:36)

All right. What's one non negotiable ritual that you have on a daily, weekly basis? Like, what's one non negotiable for Todd?

Todd Rose (34:46)

So this is going to sound really nerdy, but it's been really important to me. So I am obsessed with organization because I'm not a very organized person, like innately. And so I am very faithful to David Allen's getting things done. And I use these organizational systems and what I found is, as you know, working on a million projects, things like that, and people want your time. Every single morning. I spend the first 15 minutes deciding what my priorities are, because if I don't, then it's last in, first out, and I'll. I'll go for days and think, what have I actually accomplished? And so just making sure I have a clear set of priorities in my own head about things that matter to me. Allow me to navigate my professional world. Important. And I will say on a personal level, I've learned through some tough experiences in my own life, do not take for granted the people that love you. And so the second thing I do is I decide I want to let somebody in my life know in a very concrete way that why I'm grateful for them. And so I try to tee that up. And I'm not as good at that. I'll be honest. I try to do that at least a couple of times a week. But that, that sense of forcing myself to not just feel the gratitude, although you do have to kind of. It's. It's hard sometimes, but acknowledge it. And you know, it's. We just go so long taking for granted the people in our lives that matter. And we think, well, of course they know, but they don't always know. And even if they do, it's great to hear.

Mick Hunt (36:07)

There it is. I like it. I like it. What's. I'm gonna ask this one differently. If you could master one new skill, what would that be?

Todd Rose (36:15)

It doesn't have to be realistic. Listen, I wanna throw the football like Drake May. I'm just saying, like, I know it's all on the hips, you know, but I watched him on, on his college clip where he threw a ball almost 80 yards and hit the crossbar. Like, I was like, how do. It's unbelievable. I Know, that's a. That's a kind of lame one, but it's. It's like I am so in awe of peak excellence of any kind.

Mick Hunt (36:39)

Yep. And former Charles, by the way.

Todd Rose (36:42)

Just incredible.

Mick Hunt (36:44)

Absolutely, Absolutely. So speaking of Patriots, we both are Patriot guys. You can't say Tom Brady, who is your next favorite Patriot of all time?

Todd Rose (36:53)

So I won't say Tom Brady now that he said he didn't have a dog in the fight for the Super Bowl. I mean, come on, man, of course you do. So I gotta be honest, and this is an easy one, but I love me some Randy Moss. Just, just watching, watching what happened, you know, and he's just incredible. And, you know, there's a other funny thing I'll tell you real quick is, you know, I've gotten to be a guy I really love. Demar Hamlin plays for the Buffalo Bills. And when we signed Stefan Diggs, I was like, oh, he's got a bad reputation. Da, da, da. And Demar had played with him in Buffalo. He said this is just not true. Like, he has, he has high level of demanding excellence of himself and of other people, but he is a leader. And sure enough, he just, he really added so much to the Patriots. And it taught me, you know, it's like, yeah, just again, that. Don't judge a book by its cover, you know, I mean, you just someone, you think they have a reputation. It's like, it turns out a lot of guys around him didn't want to work. And so. So Diggs is really high up there for me right now.

Mick Hunt (37:51)

Okay. I like it, I like it. I like both of those answers. That's really cool. What is one leadership myth that you wish would disappear?

Todd Rose (37:59)

I think that so often we think great leaders, it's like almost like you're this top down, control sergeant, that, that somehow I'm the puppet master. I can move people around places rather than every time I've been around a truly great leader. They inspire and they empower, and instead of making me do something, they get me to see why I want to do the thing that they're telling me. And, you know, let's go back to the Patriots. I literally think this is why, I mean, what Mike Vull has built from a culture standpoint and as a leader, I mean, this is a team that had four wins last year, as you know, and four and four year, four wins the year before. And in one year, yeah, we got some lucky breaks, whatever. But you are a Super bowl team runner of barely. But, you know, but the Point is, it was culture and it was leadership, and he got those guys to buy into what he was selling. But, look, as a coach, he could. He could dangle playing time over their head. He could do whatever, but he inspired and he empowered, and it was remarkable. And I think there's. There's a lesson in there in terms of what real leadership's like.

Mick Hunt (39:00)

Totally agree. Totally agree. Last question for you, Todd. As the story of Todd Rose is being written, what's one word you want to define that story?

Todd Rose (39:08)

You know, I would hope it would be optimism. That, like, life is. Life can be hard for. For everybody. We all face challenges, but if you're willing to. To work hard and you're willing to learn and have some humility, it's pretty remarkable what we're capable of as people. And, you know, I feel like, you know, so much of my life, I could have just called it and been like, well, and I could have made excuses or whatever. And look, I can have a pity party with the best of them, so I'm not pretending that I don't. But, you know, I just don't see much benefit in complaining all the time. Either you can do something about it or you can't. If you can't, then why are you complaining? And if you can, then do something about it? And when we start thinking about getting back to building and contributing, I just think we got a great future ahead of us. Right now, it seems a little dim, but I, I'm. I'm all in on, On. On us as a people, and I think that. So I would hope that when people listen to me, I, I, I don't want to share false hope, but I do believe there's a. A realistic optimism about our own lives and about the future of the country.

Mick Hunt (40:10)

Amazing, brother. Amazing Todd, again, I'm honored to have shared some time with you today. We definitely need to do this again sometime in person, man, because there's a lot we need to talk about.

Todd Rose (40:21)

You just.

Mick Hunt (40:22)

You.

Todd Rose (40:22)

You tell me, tell me when, and I'm there, and I will bring the bourbon.

Mick Hunt (40:26)

Done deal.

Todd Rose (40:27)

Listen, listen, I, I'm. I'm gonna take it one step further. Let's find time to get together, maybe even do another round on this in person. And I'll get some Pappy and we'll do some. I'll bring the Pappy Van Winkle, the glasses.

Mick Hunt (40:39)

There you go.

Todd Rose (40:39)

I love it. It's a deal.

Mick Hunt (40:41)

Good stuff. Todd, where can people find and follow you?

Todd Rose (40:44)

You know what? You could just. On social media. It's on all the platforms I go by it's L Toddrose because my parents name me Larry and never never intended to call me that. So it's I go by my middle name or just toddrose.com is easy.

Mick Hunt (40:56)

Amazing. I'll have links to all of that in the show. Notes this has been an amazing episode. Make sure you go back and re listen to this one because Todd gave so many nuggets throughout this episode. It was really a master class. So to all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

Rudy Rush (41:14)

That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged. If this episode moved you, and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen. Share it with someone who needs that spark and leave a review so more people can find there. Because I'm Rudy Rush and until next time, stay driven, stay focused, focused and stay unplugged.

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