Mach Speed Mindset with Michelle “Mace” Curran

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mick Unplugged

Episode: Mach Speed Mindset with Michelle “Mace” Curran
Host: Mick Hunt ("Realm")
Guest: Michelle “Mace” Curran, former Thunderbird fighter pilot, author, keynote speaker
Date: November 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Mick Unplugged features a dynamic and candid conversation between host Mick Hunt and former Thunderbird fighter pilot Michelle “Mace” Curran. The discussion centers on the concept of the "Because"—the core purpose that drives impactful leadership and personal growth. Michelle shares her journey from a small-town Wisconsin upbringing to becoming a trailblazing Air Force pilot and now a leadership speaker, author, and entrepreneur. Key themes include overcoming imposter syndrome, cultivating trust, facing fears, and building confidence under pressure—all informed by Michelle’s unique perspective from inside cockpits and on modern stages.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovering Your "Because" (03:27–06:19)

• Mick introduces the idea of the "Because"—a deeper motivator beyond 'Why'.
• Michelle discusses her current "Because":
  • She feels more clarity now than ever, driven by legacy building, empowerment, and the tangible impact she sees through her speaking and writing.
  • "Entrepreneurship is hard and uncertain, but this deeper purpose keeps me running towards the target without hesitation. Maybe naively sometimes, but I absolutely love it." (05:39, Michelle Curran)

Memorable Quote:

“I get to tangibly see the inspiration happen in front of my eyes... It’s not just ‘I feel good,’ it’s ‘I’m going to act accordingly because of that.’”
— Michelle Curran (05:01)

2. Early Life & The Military Path (07:25–11:27)

• Michelle shares Wisconsin upbringing stories—laced with humor (like her dad’s “Beloit” joke).
• Her path to the Air Force:
  • No aviation or military family background, inspired in part by her grandfather’s WWII relics.
  • Attended college on an Air Force ROTC scholarship, initially planning to become an FBI agent, influenced by pop culture ("X-Files").
  • Changed her life trajectory after witnessing her first fighter jets take off:
    “Goosebumps, jaw dropping. I’m like, forget the FBI—how do I go do that?” (10:58, Michelle Curran)

3. Embracing Leadership (11:29–16:48)

• When did Michelle accept her role as a leader?
  • Experienced imposter syndrome due to not formally holding certain military leadership titles.
  • Only after entering civilian life and reflecting for her book did she accept her status as a leader.
  • Leadership is demonstrated in-action, not just by title.

Memorable Quote:

“From an outside perspective, I was leading in so many different ways… But I had a harder time identifying as a leader in general. I definitely stumbled around it for over a decade.”
— Michelle Curran (15:08)

4. Confronting Imposter Syndrome (17:32–21:21)

• Both discuss the prevalence of imposter syndrome.
• Michelle normalizes the experience:
  • Nearly everyone—including C-suite leaders—feels it.
  • Her exercise: Going to war with your inner critic.
    • Name and describe this inner voice to recognize its influence.
    • "Mine’s name is Stan. Now when it shows up, I can choose to ignore it or listen." (20:06, Michelle Curran)
  • Normalize by discussing it with mentors or peers.

5. The New Currency: Building Trust (21:21–25:53)

• Trust as the foundation of modern leadership (esp. for millennials and Gen Z):
  • “Trust is what they crave, trust is what they desire… It’s no longer about your benefits, your 401k package… Can I trust you?” (17:58, Mick Hunt)
• Military aviation offers extreme lessons in trust:
  • Flying in close formation demands absolute trust.
  • The fighter pilot debrief: radical candor + accountability without shame.
    • "When the wing commander fesses up his mistakes the same as I do, that's what creates that trust." (25:36, Michelle Curran)
  • Mistake-sharing accelerates growth, creates psychological safety, and drives high performance.

6. Lessons from "The Flip Side" (26:24–29:07)

• Michelle’s new book, "The Flip Side":
  • Written to be more than 'jet stories'; it’s about addressing fear—especially fear of failure and not being enough.
  • "The fear I dealt with most often was the fear of failure, not the fear of physical harm." (27:33, Michelle Curran)
  • Blends stories with research in psychology.

7. Tools for Facing Fear (32:09–35:56)

• Actionable approach to facing fear:
  • First: acknowledge it—write it down, talk about it.
  • Evaluate the worst-case scenario; plan for it, just like in flight planning.
  • Prepare contingency plans; recognizing fear helps build confidence and resilience.
  • “That can be enough right there… When you plan for the worst case, the scale will tip towards going after the opportunity.” (34:39, Michelle Curran)

8. Rapid-fire Leadership Tactics for Overcoming Self-Doubt (36:05–38:17)

• The SBCs Method: Small, Bold Choices
  • When big leaps feel too daunting, take incremental bold steps.
  • Example: Want a career change? Message 5 people on LinkedIn in your target industry.
    • “It should feel a little bit bold but not so terrifying that it scares you back to stagnation.” (37:01, Michelle Curran)
  • Consistent small actions build confidence and minimize risk.

9. Notable Resources

• Michelle’s website: macecurran.com
• Social: @macecurran on Instagram, LinkedIn

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership Identity:
  “I had so many moments where I was a leader… but I had a hard time identifying as a leader in general… Now, three years later… I think writing the book really solidified that for me.” (15:08, Michelle Curran)

• On Trust in High-stakes Teams:
  “Flying as close as 18 inches from another airplane going 400–500 miles an hour… you just have to trust that they’re not going to hit you… After every flight, we have this opportunity for feedback, ownership, and accountability… The purpose is not to shame, it’s because we want to be the best team we can possibly be.” (24:30–25:53, Michelle Curran)

• On Imposter Syndrome:
  “It is such a common thing, but no one talks about it that openly… I realized so many of my decisions were filtered through this inner voice—‘Stan’—made up of society’s expectations…” (19:20-20:07, Michelle Curran)

• On Facing Fear:
  “When we let that [primal] fear propagate to every part of modern life where there’s no saber tooth tigers, that’s where it holds us back… Write down the worst case. When you get it out, you realize it’s not as big a deal—you can weather that storm.” (33:22–35:56, Michelle Curran)

• On Small, Bold Choices:
  “Pick the smallest action step you can take right now… It should feel a little bold, but not so terrifying that it scares you back to stagnation.” (37:01, Michelle Curran)

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Fun Rapid-Fire (38:46–41:00)

• Cheese curds over mozzarella sticks (“Wisconsin people get it.”)
• Favorite cheese: Colby cheddar.
• Favorite call sign: “Code Brown” (for cockpit emergencies!).
• How she recharges: The gym—workouts.
• Hype-up song: Not “Danger Zone,” but “Pink Pony Club” and powerful female ballads, including Taylor Swift.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Leadership is an evolving practice—not a title. Embrace the messy middle and learn from every chapter.
• Imposter syndrome is universal. Name the inner critic, talk about it, and support each other.
• Trust is the currency of high-performing teams. Foster psychological safety and transparency.
• Face fear by acknowledging and planning for it. Fear is normal and manageable.
• Build confidence with small, bold choices. Don’t let fear or self-doubt paralyze you.
• You don’t have to do it alone. Find your mentors, your wingmen, your tribe.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:27] – Michelle’s current "Because" and sense of legacy
• [07:25] – Growing up in Wisconsin and her path to aviation
• [11:29] – Accepting responsibility as a leader
• [14:37] – Imposter syndrome and leadership identity
• [17:32] – The reality of imposter syndrome and confronting it
• [21:21] – Trust as the new currency in modern leadership
• [25:53] – Fighter pilot culture and trust-building
• [26:51] – Details about "The Flip Side" book
• [32:09] – Facing fears and practical strategies
• [36:38] – Advice for overcoming self-doubt: Small, Bold Choices
• [38:53] – Rapid-fire Q&A

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Final Words

Mick and Michelle wrap with gratitude, humor, and a shared commitment to legacy, action, and authenticity.
Mick’s sendoff:

“Remember: your ‘Because’ is your superpower. Go unleash it.” (42:33)

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking bold, actionable strategies to command confidence, lead with trust, and transform fear into fuel for progress.

Transcript

[A]

If you're like me, you've probably seen the headlineswildfires, floods, melting ice caps and thought, where's the hope? Well, this show brings it back. It's called Planet Visionaries, hosted by Alex Honnold. Yeah, the Alex from Free Solo. But now he's climbing a different mountain, saving the only planet we've got. Every episode reminds us that optimism isn't naive, it's a strategy. You'll hear from explorers and scientists and storytellers who aren't talking about the problem, they're living the solution. I want you to check out the upcoming episode with Mark Ruffalo, actor, conservationist and all around force of good as he and Alex break down how storytelling can spark real change and move communities to action. Because if leadership is about vision, then this is what modern leadership looks like. Courage, clarity and a belief that that progress is possible. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you're tuned in right now. You know, as leaders, we talk about performance all the time. Business, performance, mindset, focus.

[B]

But let's be real.

[A]

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[B]

Hits harder than turbulence?

[A]

Former Thunderbird fighter pilot Michelle Mace, current shows up to tell us how to rise through imposter syndrome, how to lead.

[B]

With trust, and how to command confidence under pressure. This isn't theory it's lived leadership at mach speed. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you one of the best thought leaders in our space today, my good friend, Michelle Mace Curry. Michelle, how you doing today, dear?

[C]

I am great. That was one of the best intros I have ever heard. I need you to travel with me.

[B]

First off, you've had many amazing intros, so I'm not gonna go there, but you are amazing, you are awesome and you deserve everything that I just said. So it's the truth.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[B]

So, Mase, I love starting my episodes by asking my guest about their. Because that thing that's deeper than your why that purpose, that mission that drives you and it changes over time. Right? So if I were to say today, Mace, what's your.

[A]

Because why do you keep doing the things that you do and giving so unapologetically from your soul?

[C]

I love this question and that you started with today because I think it's clearer for me today than it has been at any other point in my career. In the various chapters and being an entrepreneur post active duty military, quite the shift, quite the change in just structure. You know, used to having a chain of command and very clear mission and orders and being part of a high performing team. And now I'm a solo entrepreneur. There's no playbook, there's no wingman who's in the thick of it with me. Even though I have some amazing people that help whenever I need them. And so I tell people, they're always surprised that I'm so passionate about what I'm doing now because it seemed like I've already done things that people look up to in such a unique way. But I feel so clear that I'm creating my legacy now. Even though I got to fly for the Thunderbirds, which is just a cool thing to be part of. And it gave me the platform to do what I do now. It gave me the perspective and the wisdom to be able to present my ideas in a way that really impact people in this new chapter. But I get to tangibly see the inspiration happen in front of my eyes when I give a keynote speech, when I talk to someone afterward and they tell me how that moment where they felt like I was talking directly to them just changed their life. And now with my book, I get these amazing pieces of feedback that are very similar where they're like, I feel like you wrote this for me and I know what I'm going to go do differently now. So it's not just I, I feel good, it's I'm Going to act accordingly because of that. And so having this platform and this position and this timing to be able to not just feel fulfilled myself because I get to control my schedule and I'm my own boss and I have creative control of the narrative, but just to see this legacy being left, when I talk to a 20 year old woman who wants to be a pilot, or I Talked to a 65 year old man who's retiring and feels like he's lost his identity. And so I feel like that's still sort of my why. But I like that you took it a little bit deeper because being an entrepreneur is hard and uncertain and it just keeps me running towards the target without hesitation. Maybe naively sometimes, but I absolutely love it.

[B]

I love that. I love your answer and I love, I've told you offline, like, I just love the person, the human being that you are so inspired by. You. You know, my best friend in the world is celebrity chef Robert Irvine, whose mission who's because is helping our heroes. Right? Like our military, our veterans, our servicemen and women, first responders that really make what we do in the United States easy. And I know that we all have diversity, we all have challenges. But Michelle, without people like you, I don't think the world would understand the true adversity, the true challenges that we would have. So, again, I just want to thank you for all that you have done, all that you currently do, and all that I know you will continue to do. So thank you for that.

[C]

That, that means a lot. And Robert has just done such an incredible job of using the platform he's been given to give back to the veteran community. He's, you know, just a handful of people are doing it at that level and he's one of them. So I love that connection.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So you are Wisconsin's finest. Born and raised in Wisconsin. Right.

[B]

My youngest son went to undergrad at Beloit in Wisconsin, so I got to spend a little bit of time in that great state.

[A]

Talk to us a little bit about.

[B]

Growing up in Wisconsin, but more importantly, when did you know that? Yeah, I'm gonna go support and fight and defend for our country in the Air Force.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Growing up in Wisconsin was a great place to grow up and. But my dad would be very sad if I didn't tell you. When I was growing up, we didn't live anywhere close to Beloit, but we would drive past the exit for it and like we were going on a road trip and he would say, you know how they named that town? It's The. It's the sound a quarter makes if you accidentally drop it in the toilet. The most obscure thing that I remember from my childhood, I don't even think I've ever been to Beloit. So I apologize for people from there that are listening, but that is what my dad would say. That's the most dad story I've ever heard, of course.

[A]

And, well, I won't.

[B]

I won't bash Beloit because my son went to college there. But, yeah, like, it's one of those towns that has a ton of history, but, like, you could miss it if you don't pay attention, right?

[C]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

That's weird.

[C]

Yeah. Lots of hidden gems like that in the Midwest in general, I think, but. Yeah. So I didn't grow up in an aviation family or military family. My grandpa. My dad's dad had been a lieutenant In World War II in the Navy, and so there was a small exposure there. He passed away when I was two years old, so I don't have any memories of him. But his trunk, his, like, military green metal trunk with Lieutenant Kern stenciled on the end of it, was at my grandma's house growing up. And I used to open it, take out all his stuff. There were letters that he had written to my grandma. There were black and white photos from him in, like, the Pacific during World War II. He was in the thick of it, and his uniforms were in there, and I would actually try them on and put on his spectacles, and his wooden pipe was in there. And it was just like this treasure trove of what felt like adventure coming from a small town in Wisconsin. And so I think that was in the back of my mind. And fast forward to high school, where I need a way to pay for college. And I'm a good student, but my parents don't have a college fund for me. And I start talking to my dad about this, and he had gone to UW Madison for a while, and he had seen all of the ROTC cadets running around. He wasn't in rotc, but he was just, like, familiar that it existed. So we start talking about that. We end up settling that. Air Force ROTC would probably be a good fit, great scholarship opportunities. At that point, I didn't want to be a pilot, but the Air Force I associated with this idea of exploration and adventure, and it just felt like the branch that I got the most excited about. So I go off to college in Minnesota on an ROTC scholarship as a criminal justice major, because my plan is to do four years in The Air Force after I graduate to pay back my scholarship. And then I want to be an FBI agent.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

That is my dream as like a 16 year old.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

I don't know why I always joke that I love the X Files growing up and, you know, the most accurate representation of what FBI agents do. Hunt down aliens. But there we are.

[B]

That's amazing.

[C]

And then halfway through college, I'm already going to commission as a lieutenant. When I graduate college, we end up visiting an Air Force base, and I see two fighter jets take off in full afterburner, and I am just awestruck. It is the coolest thing I have ever seen. Goosebumps, jaw dropping. And I'm like, forget the FBI. How do I go do that? And then it became my singular focus on how I could make that happen.

[A]

So as much as I feel like.

[B]

I know about you, I did. I never knew the how you got there. Like, that's awesome. That's awesome. So let's talk about, you know, you're enlisted, you're, you're, you're doing amazing things. When did you realize that you're a leader and there's a purpose that. I'm asking this question, but when did you know?

[A]

When did you accept the responsibility?

[B]

I'm going to ask it that way. When did you accept the responsibility that I have to lead? I have to lead people.

[A]

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[B]

I lead it.

[A]

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[B]

Their body for it.

[A]

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[C]

That's such an interesting question because that's one of those titles that I always felt a lot of imposter syndrome around.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's because I didn't stay in the Air Force long enough to be what the Air Force talks about as, like, leadership. Like a squadron commander.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Right. Like, I would have. I left at 13 years. Had I stayed in for probably two more years, I would have gotten into a position like that, but I left before that. And so I had so many moments where I was a leader, even if it wasn't at that level in that title. Right. Like, I was a flight lead in formation. I was a mission commander putting 60 aircraft in the air, and I'm the one in charge of that entire thing. I go to the Thunderbirds, and I'm. For two years, my title is the lead solo. And so it's funny because from an outside perspective, I was leading in so many different ways. And when I was in that role, when we took off and I was the mission commander or the flight lead or the lead solo, I very much was empowered to be the decision maker, to execute as the leader. But I had a harder time kind of identifying as a leader in general. Right. Like when I'm not officially in that role, and I don't think it was until almost when I left the Air Force and I started to interact much more with the civilian world, where people would always refer to my leadership and refer to me as A leader. And I was like, wait, is that, Is that true? Is that accurate? And now, three years later, you know, writing the book, I think really solidified that for me because so much time went into thinking about the experiences in my career, pulling stories from them, and being like, what wisdom is here that other people can learn from? And now I'm speaking as a thought leader, which is a whole nother ball game. And so it was a bit of a circuitous route to get there. I don't feel like I commissioned into the Air Force as a lieutenant and was just like, I'm a leader now. I definitely stumbled around it for over a decade.

[B]

So I purposely asked that question, and I promise to everybody that's watching or listening, this was not rehearsed, because you are one of the best. I'm going to put you in my top three leadership speakers, leadership development coaches that I know, and I genuinely mean that. And when we talk about some of the topics that you discuss and the workshops that you put on, a couple of my favorites are ones that you just brought up. So dealing with imposter syndrome, which I think is crazy, Crazy in a good way for everybody listening.

[A]

Watch.

[B]

I don't mean it's crazy to have imposter syndrome. I mean it's crazy in a good way that we're talking about it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And in a very positive way. You talk about the power of creating a culture of trust, which I also talk about, like in 2025, going into 2026, trust is the new currency for the modern employee. Trust is what they crave, trust is what they desire. It's no longer about your benefits, your 401k package.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like your PTO. It's not that. It's can I trust you? And then you talk about overcoming self doubt. And I, I wanted to ask you. And we can go deeper into dealing with imposter syndrome for the viewer or listener right now that's struggling with imposter syndrome, that's willing to admit that they're struggling with imposter syndrome, what are some things that they can start doing to overcome that?

[A]

To.

[B]

In your words, to deal with it?

[C]

Yeah, I, I struggled with this so much early in my career, and then it popped up a few times later. But I think my perspective on it had changed. So it was more. More manageable. And now that I speak about it openly, it is such a widespread experience. It is not just for people in an environment like a fighter squadron, and it's not just for people that are in such a minority, like I was as 2% of fighter pilots when I came in were women, I think that that can layer onto it. But the number of like, even experienced leaders who are in a C suite at a big company who happen to be in my keynote audience and come up afterwards and are like, I'm the CFO and I feel this every single day. Like it is such a common thing, but no one talks about it that openly. And so I think that's one of the big things is recognizing it and then normalizing it and then we can do something about it. And so even just having the self awareness to be listening to podcasts like this one that are focused on that personal development, that eq, that self awareness, because without that, you're not going to admit it. You're just going to be stuck in the struggle and just not even have the perspective to realize what's going on. But one of the things that I do with people to help them recognize it is an exercise where we go, we, we call it going to war with your inner critic. And they actually write down, like, the physical attributes that that negative inner voice would have, what it sounds like, what it looks like, they give it a name. And I know for me personally, I realized that so many of my business decisions, I was filtering through this, this inner voice, this critic that was, I guess, the world's idea of what the perfect fighter pilot would be. So it was an older, male, super tactical, experienced fighter pilot who wasn't a real person, was kind of just made up of society's expectations and the pressures that I felt my entire career. And as I'm writing my book, as I'm putting stuff out on social media, as I'm doing a speech, I would be like, am I, like, who am I to tell my story? What makes me so special? Like, how dare I become a thought leader in this space that's full of amazing people? And so I think we all have that version. And giving it characteristics. Mine's name is Stan. Giving it characteristics and a name. Now when it shows up, you're just like, oh, I know what this is. I see it for what it is. And I can choose to ignore it or listen to it. I get to choose what I do, though. And then talking to someone else about it, a mentor, a peer, someone else who's in your same space dealing with similar pressures, I almost guarantee they're going to tell you they felt the same way. And that's the normalizing it part.

[B]

That's awesome. That is so awesome. You know, and I just talked about One of your other topics that you and I are in so much alignment on, creating a culture of trust. Michelle, when I grew up and when I first got into the workforce and even as a student, as an athlete, leaders, the, the mantra was do as I say, not as I do, and.

[A]

More importantly, do as I say today.

[B]

Because I might contradict something I told you yesterday or last week.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And, and that was kind of the, the power of leadership that doesn't work anymore. Right. Like I tell people all the time, especially with like my children, I tell the story of when my parents and grandparents told me something I had to believe. And it wasn't until the Internet became a thing that I was like, wait.

[A]

That wasn't true what they told me, Right?

[B]

And now with your children, with the people that you lead, the people that you work with, before you can complete the sentence that you're telling them, they're already fact checking. Right.

[A]

Because trust is so important.

[B]

And I said it earlier, trust is the new currency. And I mean that because that's what the modern employee, that's what the modern teammate is looking for, first and foremost is can I trust you regardless of.

[A]

What the mission is?

[B]

Right. Can I trust you that one, we're.

[A]

In this together, two, you're going to.

[B]

Give me purpose, and three, you're going to be transparent about what we're trying to do. But that all starts with trust.

[A]

I'd love for you to talk to.

[B]

The leaders out there today that don't understand how important trust is for building a powerful high performance.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's always been important. But what you said, like, it's becoming more and more important because especially with AI becoming more of what it is and even anyone who's on social media knows half the time they can't trust their own eyeballs. And that's like a crazy place to be in. And that's only going to continue to be a bigger, a bigger issue. And so that trust and that authenticity and that connection is what people want and that's what creates the highest performing teams. And I think one of the things in the military and one of the reasons I had a hard time taking on the title of leader is because I did see several leaders. I had some amazing bosses as well, but I did see several leaders who kind of ruled with the iron fist. Right? Like, you just shut up in color. You're in the military, you just do what I do. I don't need to tell you why. You don't need to understand the part of the mission that you contribute to just follow orders. That does work temporarily, but that does not work long term. And that does not have people invested in the purpose and the mission and showing up as their best. They're going to show up and clock in and clock out, but you're not getting the full potential from that person. And I think one of the things that fighter pilot culture does really good to foster trust because we have to have it at such an extreme level, especially the Thunderbirds. Right. Like you're flying as close as 18 inches from another airplane going 4 or 500 miles an hour. And a lot of times when we're in formation, you might be looking to the right, staring at the jet next to you, trying to stay in position, and there's another person to your left in another airplane doing the same thing. And you cannot turn and check on them. You just have to trust that they're not going to hit you and that they're going to move so that you can move where you need to go without being like, oh, are they out of the way? It's, it's insane. And so the fighter pilot debrief, where after every flight we have this opportunity for feedback, ownership and accountability. When you are a young new fighter pilot, it's intimidating because you feel like you're getting in trouble. And you also suck at your job because you're a beginner. So that most of the debrief is just talking about the things you messed up because you're the weakest link, because you're new. But as you progress and as you get kind of brought into that team and that trust starts to develop, you realize that the purpose of that is not to shame you, to ridicule you, to make you feel bad. The purpose is to openly look at everyone's mistakes. Whether that's me as a brand new lieutenant, whether that's the wing commander who's a one star general and happens to also be a fighter pilot and flies a handful of times a month and is honestly just not that tactically good at that point. Because he has a lot of other stuff going on.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And when he fesses up his mistakes the same as I do, that's what creates that trust. And everyone understanding that the reason we're doing this feedback is because we want to be the best team we can possibly be. It's not to call you out, it's not to make you feel bad. It's because we have this shared goal that creates that psychological safety, that creates a team that gets better a lot faster because errors Aren't hidden, they're learned from immediately.

[B]

That's awesome. That is so awesome. And I know you talk. You highlight a lot of this also in this new, amazing book that you have coming out or that is out. The flip side. Let's talk about the flip side. Let's talk about what readers are going to get out of this book. Let's talk about your. Your purpose and passion of writing in it and putting. Putting ideas in the paper.

[C]

It was quite the process. I worked on it for three years, and it's been out for. For about a month and a half as of when we're recording this. So still very fresh. It was one of those things where I was out there telling my story early on, doing speeches, and I was constantly getting asked if I had a book. I was like, I've been out of the Air Force for two minutes. Hold on. It takes a second to write a whole book. And also, I didn't know if I had the wisdom and enough to put into 70,000 words. That's very intimidating. And I didn't want to just check the box to have a book. I wanted to make sure it was something I was proud of, that I believed in, and that could really impact people. So I sat down with a professional writer. Almost like I would say my talks with her were like therapy, because it would be like, well, I have this story, and then we would dig into it. And having that person to bounce ideas off of and find through lines and themes and all this, like, jumble of 13 years of crazy experiences I had was so helpful. And it became clear very quickly that fear was really the common thread, because I tell some. Some crazy stories of near misses in the airplane in the book, where fear of physical harm, fear of death is on the table. And I think that's what people expect coming from a fighter pilot. But there's only a handful of those in there because that was not the fear that I dealt with most often. It was that fear of failure, of not being good enough, of letting people down. And that is what makes it relatable. So it's not just cool jet stories. Those are sprinkled in there, but it is really people, and it's not written for other pilots. Anyone who picks it up, I think, will see themselves somewhere in the pages. And then we also did a lot of research in human psychology to really root it in science. So it's not just me being like, anecdotally, I experienced this. It's also like, this is why our brain does that. This is like why we get overstimulated and overstressed and can't perform. And here's how you can manage that in any situation.

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[B]

Yeah, you know, I love in the book when you talk about facing your fears and, and I think everybody that's watching or listening needs to understand, like, it's okay to have fears. It is quite okay because it's common because you do have them. So don't, don't let anyone tell you that it's not a fear. Like you have butterflies, you get anxious over things.

[A]

It's usually a fear. And it's okay. You know, Michelle's going to tell you.

[B]

And I'm going to tell you, you.

[A]

Just have to acknowledge it first and.

[B]

Then you can have a plan to face them. But if you, if you don't acknowledge that what you're experiencing or what you're feeling is fear, then you're never going to overcome it.

[A]

Or I shouldn't say that you're never.

[B]

Going to face it the way that you should. So I love for you, the expert, Michelle, to talk to us about facing your fears and how you can approach doing that.

[C]

Yeah, much like the inner critic and imposter syndrome, the first thing is acknowledging it and recognizing it for what it is. And I think a lot of us feel that physiological response of fear and it stops us in our tracks. Like we, we feel maybe it's that upset stomach, it's the heart rate, it's that, that pit that you get in your stomach and you're like, oh, that is, that is my body telling me that I should not do this thing. And there it has a place. Right. Like, don't walk out in front of traffic, of course, like don't jump off a cliff. Like, we need fear. But that's the primal fear that kept us alive back in primitive times where we're worried about tigers and bushes. But when we let that propagate to every Part of our life in modern society where there's no saber tooth tigers, that is where it just gets in the way and it holds us back. And so giving people tools where they recognize the root of the fear, they can actually zoom out and look at what would this look like? So say you have a big opportunity come up and you feel that excitement and then you immediately feel that fear because you know it's a stretch for you. You know you're going to have to learn, you know you might fail. And you're. I imagine it like this teeter totter. It's this scale, like, like the IRS scale or the one that's on the, on the dollar, right, where you're like, does the fear outweigh the rewards? So I'm like, write down what the worst case scenario is. Like, what are you so afraid of? And oftentimes if you get it out of your head, onto paper or even better, you talk to someone else about it right there, it, it makes it pretty obvious that it's not as big of a deal as you thought it was when you were just spiraling on it. So that, that can be enough right there. But then if it is still a factor and the worst case is really bad, now you're like, okay, if that does happen, what can I have planned? What tools do I have? How can I prepare to be able to handle it? And like, we would do that for Air Force missions all the time, right? Like say our intelligence is bad and this goes south completely. Like, what is our plan B? What's our contingencies? And when you get it out of your brain and you get it out into the world and then you plan for that worst case, now you're a lot more confident and now the scale will often tip towards okay, it's worth going after this opportunity because I think resilience and persistence and perseverance isn't this idea that everything's going to always go in your favor? Right. It's the idea that you're going to take action and when stuff does go wrong, doesn't go as planned, which inevitably will happen at some point. Yeah, that's okay because I can weather that storm.

[B]

That's awesome. That's awesome. Mace, I could talk to you forever. Like, all right, we're just literally.

[A]

I know, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

Like we could literally do this forever. So I want to give another, another tip trick to the person listening or watching that has that self doubt. But it's like, I just, I don't know if I can do X, I don't know, or I don't believe that I have the ability to do Y. Can you give that person that's dealing with self doubt, couple of tips, a couple of action points that they can do to start to overcome that?

[C]

Yeah, I like to focus on what I call SBCs because we love acronyms in the military. Small, bold choices. So I think a lot of times we have this, this big goal, this dream, and it's that thing that we can't, we can't let go. Right. We haven't done it yet, we're scared we might fail. Keeps popping up. So rather than there being two choices of going all in on this thing, making this massive leap and that feels terrifying, or choice B, doing nothing and guaranteeing that the thing's not going to happen, there's, there's an option in between, and that is sbcs, where you pick the smallest action step you can take right now, today, that would serve that goal, that would move you towards it. And it should feel a little bit bold, but it shouldn't be so terrifying that if it doesn't go as planned, it scares you back to stagnation. So if you are thinking about making a career leap, for example, you're like, I'm going to leave my job and move to this new industry. Okay. Rather than just quitting today, how about you send five LinkedIn messages to people in the industry that you want to be part of. Reach out and be like, well, can I get on a call with you? I want to learn more. That probably feels a little bit uncomfortable to most people, but if those people just ghost you and don't respond, you've lost nothing. And so focusing on SBCs just makes it so much more manageable. It also manages the risk and it is a surefire way to slowly build your confidence again.

[B]

We all need to hire Michelle. She, she has, she has some courses, some workshops. Obviously she's available to speak. Michelle, where can people find and follow you? Where do you want them to find and follow you?

[C]

Yeah, my website is mace curran.com so call sign, last name. Instagram's a great spot. It's Mace Curran. I'm also on LinkedIn. MichelleMacy Curran and I put a lot of kind of thought leadership content out there. So I am very easy to find on the Internet.

[B]

There we go. There we go. All right, Mace, I'm going to get you out of here with my rapid fire, my five rapid fire questions. You ready?

[C]

Ready. I'm caffeinated. Let's go.

[B]

Let's go. All right. Cheese curds and mozzarella sticks.

[C]

Cheese curds.

[B]

Favorite cheese is.

[C]

I like Colby cheddar. Okay.

[B]

I have some.

[C]

Wisconsin people are like, yeah, we get it.

[B]

Yeah, I have some in the fridge. I'll. I'll give you homage with some cheese tonight.

[C]

Later.

[B]

Call signer nickname that still makes you laugh to this day.

[C]

Oh, gosh, it's. Some of these are not safe for work. I think there's. There's so many. Gosh, I got to think of one that's kind of PC. The plays on last names that are like. Like Code Brown. For example, if anyone's been looked at the cockpit of a fighter jet, if you got to go to the bathroom, you don't got any options. So you can only imagine something like that. So there. There's so many like that, and so many of them are. Are just totally inappropriate. And we just always call them only by their call signature so that you kind of disassociate the combo of the call sign, last name. But we'll go with that one for now.

[B]

All right, Code Brown. I'll get the other ones later. Your favorite way to unplug or recharge.

[C]

This is going to sound weird to some people that don't get it, but those that get it, get it. I go to the gym. Working out is my best recharge.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. All right, last one. You're going on stage, and you need to get hyped up. What's your hype song? What are you going to listen to in your earbuds before you go on stage?

[C]

Ooh, I'm. Everyone thinks it's Danger Zone, but, I mean, I like that song. It's not Danger. Highway to the Danger Zone. I think Pink Pony Club is a good. I really love, like, female badass, like, ballads where it's just like, hell, yeah, let's go do this. Taylor Swift has some good ones. I know these are all cliche, but those get me hyped up.

[A]

Okay. I dig it. I dig it.

[B]

Mace, I know you're busy. I just want to thank you for spending some time with us today. And I have a special treat for my viewers and listeners. And you all know I do this with people who have amazing books that. That I'm either enjoying or have enjoyed.

[A]

So the first 20 people that message.

[B]

Me, either on LinkedIn or Instagram, Thunderbird, I am going to send you a copy of Mason's book, the Flip side.

[C]

I love that. Thank you so much. I'm. I'm excited to hear what they think.

[A]

Yes. And do.

[B]

Do Mason I a favor. Like tag us when you do put it in so that. That she also knows that. Hey, you heard it here on Mick unplugged. And again, the first 20 people.

[A]

And people always get upset with me because I say the first 20 people.

[B]

Look, I can't do it for everybody that messages.

[A]

I have a timestamp the first 20. So if you're number 22, don't call me out. It's the first 20. Sorry.

[C]

Yeah, it's like old school radio when you're like the 10th caller is going to win a cruise.

[B]

Right, Right. There you go, Mace. Love you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking time and giving us so much insightful insights today.

[C]

My absolute pleasure. This was a fun interview and I feel like we could come back in a few months and do a part two. We felt like we just scratched the surface. We didn't even get into cool jet stories.

[A]

Well, then let's do a part two.

[B]

We're still recording right now, so part.

[A]

Two will be coming soon.

[B]

How about that? You heard it here, you heard it here. And to all the viewers and listeners, remember you're. Because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

[A]

You've been plugged into MC unplugged. Don't just listen. Take action, rate and subscribe. Follow me on social and get the full [e-mail]. keep building, keep leading, and most importantly, keep dominating.

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Settlement.

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