Travis Chapel (2:55)

Probably would have been a different answer had you asked me pre kids, but I think everybody that has kids, man, it just flips your world upside down. Teaches you how nothing is about you anymore and you get to focus on. Know other little human beings that you get to help shape and things. So, you know, now for me, it's, it's way more about them than, than it is about me. And, and that is definitely a, a script that has been flipped since I, since I started this thing back seven, eight years ago. However long it's been now, the, the kids have given me renewed purpose, renewed sense of why, a renewed, you know, a reason to keep doing this thing.

Mick (3:34)

I love it, brother. I love it, man. And I'm kind of the same way. When I had kids, like, I've always had this connection with my mom, brother and sister, and they are and will always be my. Because. And then when you have kids, you start thinking about legacy, right? You go from like, doing, doing, doing to like, holy crap, not, not what are they going to do for me, but what am I going to do for them and what's going to be said? How are, how am I going to be viewed in their lens? So talk a little bit about that flip that you're talking about, man. Like, yeah, just that moment when it's like, it's no longer me. I do have a legacy now.

Travis Chapel (4:13)

Yeah, exactly, man. And here's the thing. Every, every kid goes through a transition where they eventually realize who their parents actually are. Meaning, like when they're kids, you know, your parents are our heroes. They're, they, they're. They exist in this kind of untouchable ether, you know that you, you, you look at them as having all the answers. They're the ones who know everything and that you can go to when, with whatever you got. And then one day you become an adult. And at some point along the way, you start, you start actually seeing your parents for who they are. The people who they actually are, their, their mistakes, their flaws, the decisions that they made in the past, where it's brought them to this time. And what, what you're talking about when it comes to legacy is not necessarily, to me like a dollar amount or a lifestyle. It's more that when that day comes for my kids, I just really want the difference between those two people in their minds to be really, really small. Yeah, meaning like the person that they view me as, like the, you know, superhero dad type of a person. I, I want, I want that to be as close as possible to what reality is the day they realize who I actually am. And so that, that one piece, you know, drives me forward in a lot of ways. And it just flipped, you know, a few years ago. It's like when you're, you're young and hungry and ambitious, you just, you're, you're doing everything almost with like a chip on your shoulder to prove to the world the. What you can offer. And, and you, you're just going, going, going constantly. You have these massive dreams and goals. And then when, when I had kids, man, like, it was almost like, why am I shooting for this thing? What is the purpose of doing this now? I have a decision to make. Because whatever time I take away from spending time with my kids, it better be used for doing something important. It better be used for the correct thing, not just for the sake of working. You know what I'm saying? Now it's like whenever I say yes to an opportunity or say yes to a business or say yes to something in this world, I'm saying no to time with my kids. So it, it better, it better be a hell yes. It better be like, this is, this is what I need to be doing, or else it does not make sense for me to take that time away from spending with them. I'd rather just hang out with them. So it just, it made me, it made me just second guess and ask deeper, better questions about how I was spending my time, what I was spending my time doing, and, and if my, and then, and then really interrogate the goals that I had set up for myself and ask are these goals still in line with the person who I am today? And sometimes they're not.

Mick (6:58)

Amen to that, brother. Amen to that. Travis, one of the things I, I've learned through you is the power of connection. Right? You've said it a lot. It's been a saying that, that we all have probably heard a million times. But your net worth, your network is your net worth, right? Like, we've all heard that saying, but you actually put it into action. Talk to the listeners and viewers about how important connection really is, because to me, that's what drives you and propels you through the success that you've had.

Travis Chapel (7:31)

Yeah. So for me, man, it was almost again kind of chip on my shoulder moment because I kind of grew up in this bubble, tight knit kind of community through through my church. And we. When I left that world behind, I also was sort of starting my network from scratch. You know, nobody in that world really followed me. We had now completely different goals. We had completely different lifestyles, made different decisions, and even the people who I'm still cool with weren't going to be a part of the new world I was creating for myself, if that makes sense. It's like they were like, hey, you know, you do you, Travis. But also, we're not. We're not aligned with the same mission anymore, so good luck, and I'll text you on your birthday, and we're good, you know? But then when I was getting into business, it was like, it just made sense to me at the time that if you want to do something that you've never done with a skill set you've never acquired or knowledge that you've never known, then the fastest way to acquire all those things is to go get around people who have already done the thing that you're trying to do at the highest level possible. So it was more of, like, a personal mission for me when I started just to, like, I don't even know, like, I wanted to be successful in business, I wanted to have a successful podcast, whatever, but I didn't know a single. Like, I never even met a millionaire at that point in my life at 23, you know, and so let alone had the ability to text one as a friend and get a text back and ask a question, you know, I'd never even met, like, shook hands with one. So what. What do I know about that? So it was more of, like, a personal mission to say, if I want to. If I want this result, I need to go get around people who are actively pursuing that same result and. Or have already accomplished the result that I'm trying to get to. And so that's. It became like, a relentless pursuit to me to continue to level up those connections and figure out how to connect with those people. And that was kind of one of the big surprises to me is that the things that I was learning or hearing at the time about connecting with people was definitely not how I was seeing all the most successful people do it. You know, it's like, go to the Chamber meetings and join the BNI chapter and do this thing and that thing, and you start going to those things, you start realizing, like, oh, none of these people are where I want to be yet. The people who are where I want to be, they all know each other, so they're doing it somehow. Like, they're not neglecting the activity, they're just doing it differently. So how do I start doing that? Which is what the show became at the time. At the time it was called build your network and it was really just the pursuit of trying to figure out the skill set and then implement it also while getting those people on my show to download that information and also be able to connect with them afterwards. So the show kind of became this almost self fulfilling prophecy where I was learning how to do it and I was able to implement what I was learning in real time to connect with those people to get them on the show and get more, you know, information and better information over time. So yeah, I was, it was like a deep kind of personal mission to me, which is why I think I took it so seriously.

Mick (10:32)

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Mick (11:46)

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Travis Chapel (13:51)

To use the cliche here, real recognizes real. So what I notice, man, is like, you get into some of these rooms, you get into some of these groups of people, and everybody's trying to connect, you know, level up and talk to the people who are. Whose time is the most coveted at that particular event, whether it's backstage at a conference or in a meetup line somewhere or, you know, name. Name the type of event they're. They're trying to all connect with, store the same people. And what I would notice is that people who were on a similar level to the one that I was on, which was at the time, like nothing, like complete beginner, not really much to offer to the room. Only. Only could learn from the people that were there. I didn't, again, didn't have much to go off of. I didn't have a ton of value to give to everybody. They. I noticed they were always trying to posture. And it confused the hell out of me, man, because I. Because I'd be, you know, I had the opportunity at the Time where I, I had gotten to know a couple people, really that space, paid them some money for some coaching, got around them, offered value in exchange. Like, at the time, it was a lot of work for me to pro, to be able to provide value. But I knew one thing, I knew how to sell. I came from door to door sales. I was like, I know how to sell. So there's one guy in particular who was selling journals at events. Like, so. So he wouldn't get paid a speaking fee, but he would say, like, I'll come speak for you for free if you let me sell my journals. Like, you know, in an expo booth or whatever. He didn't have anybody who worked the booth. So I was like, I'll just volunteer and work, work it for free for you for three full days. Which at the time, like three full days of my time working a booth at an event like that. I knew how much money I could make generating sales for like the products I used to sell. So it was, it was significant effort from a skill that I had that I had built up to that time that I was giving away for free. But what allowed me to do is get around that person and then listen to the conversations of people that would come up to the booth to like, shake his hand, get him to sign something, take a picture with them. And it amazed me, man, how many people would come up to that conversation. They would talk 98 of the time trying to impress the person that they're talking to. What they don't realize is that that person has unlimited access to a multitude of people who are wildly. Exactly. Wildly more successful than you are. Like, you're not going to, you're not going to say anything that's. That he hasn't heard in that three minutes that you're, that you're taking time to do. So all you're doing is posturing yourself to be, to be better than you actually are, which those people, again, real, real. Recognize as real. So that person is see through all of that anyway. And then now you're just, now you're just a number. Now you're just another person that they connected with at a conference who took a picture. You made zero impact, you learned nothing, you asked zero questions, and you walked away with no relationship. And I saw people do this like time and time and time and time again. And so when I would get in those rooms, man, I, I just, I just was me and I would be honest with people. Like, I'm starting out, I'm at, I'm at this, you Know, even. Even for different rooms that I paid to be in, like masterminds or small groups or anything where I would. I would put an investment down to get in the room. It was always a stretch. And I knew going into it that I was like, hey, look, I would tell people, I was like, look, I'm probably the brokest person in this room. Immediately sheds all form of ego when you start off with a line like that where people are like, oh, okay, well, see how we can help you. But they want to help. That's the thing, man, is like, people want to be helpful, they want to be useful. It's just if. If you're putting on this. This position or.

Mick (17:15)

Or.

Travis Chapel (17:15)

Or posturing yourself as somebody who doesn't need the help, then they can't help you. And then again, you leave the situation thinking that, you know, talking to people is a waste of time because you didn't get anything out of it. It's like, well, you weren't even open to receiving anything because you were trying to make yourself sound awesome when you're objectively not awesome yet, you know, like, at least at that thing that you're trying to be awesome at. Right. So not to say that you're not worth anything or you're not awesome as a person, I'm sure that's probably all true. But if you come into the situation with this high ego and. And you're constantly posturing and positioning yourself to be this person that you are not yet, it's first of all, not going to. Not going to allow you to learn anything. And then, second of all, that person's going to see right through it because they're. They were just backstage with all the other people who are actually awesome at what they do, and that's not the type of communication that they have with each other. They're all eager and willing and open to learn from each other. That's why they're in the position that they're in. So I saw that early on, man, it was a big blessing in disguise because it just taught me that authenticity was going to be rewarded. I'm not here to make myself sound better than I am. I'm just here to learn as much as I possibly can and see if there's any potential way that I could bring some. Some sort of value to this relationship.

Mick (18:28)

Man, that is amazing. And I want to go deeper into something you just said because. And this is for the viewers and listeners, Travis and I are going to have a real conversation because success doesn't happen overnight. But I'm a whole heart believer that sell that success does leave clues. And those clues start by investing in yourself. So you heard Travis talking about going to masterminds and going to these events and sometimes even paying the extra for whatever the VIP or high ticket offer is so you can get some type of access. I think where most people, Travis, fail when they try to get the overnight success is they really don't invest in themselves. Yeah, right. They look at paying money to go to an event, joining a mastermind, you know, doing a one on one collab with Travis. They think that that money goes to the event holder or to the, the influencer's pocket. But what you are actually gaining are clues. And, and, and I tell people all the time, Trav, if you really want to understand how success works, you've got to be willing to invest in yourself. Because if you're not, I can promise you it's not going to happen. I'm not going to say it's not going to happen, but it's going to take much longer and you're going to give up before it actually even gets there.

Travis Chapel (19:46)

Exactly. Yeah. It's definitely going to take more time. That's the thing, is that once you adopt the identity of somebody who values time over anything else, you start realizing that a lot of these things are a bargain. You know, it's like, it's okay, name the number. 25 grand, 50 grand, 100 grand, 10 grand, whatever. Sounds like a lot to you. All I would do is ask people what their goals are, you know, like they would look at investing in something. It's like, yeah, but it's 10 grand. Okay, but, and I'm just like, okay, but you just told me that you want this thing that you're doing to make you $1 million next year. What is 10 grand compared to a million bucks? How long is it going to take you to fail and fall on your face and figure it out on your own when you could just pay 10 grand and learn all of the things that that person learned over 20 years of doing the thing that you're trying to do. And you're, you're, you're, you're holding the money like the money is the most valuable piece. It's not. Your time is the most valuable piece. And like you said, it's not even just a matter of like, oh, I can figure it out. Because you probably can figure it out. Will it take you way longer? Sure. But then you also are throwing in that other variable of like, if it does take you that Much longer. And you're putting in this work in the meantime and failing this much and falling on your face this much. How likely are you going to, how likely is it going to be that you're actually going to stick with the thing that you're trying to see success at for the duration of time that's required in order for you to see the success anyway? Can you do it? Sure. Should you do it? Probably not. You know, and, and if you're, and if your risk tolerance is extremely low, like you're in a position where you got three kids, you're, you're 48 years old, you're switching careers, you know, they're, they're. There is absolutely extreme value in paying to cut the line and learn from somebody who's been there, done that, bought 10 t shirts, and can help you avoid the mistakes that they made. It's like, it just, it doesn't even make sense from a financial standpoint sometimes. And yeah, is it a risk? Sure. But you are in the risk business. You know what I mean? Like, if you're doing anything entrepreneurial, you're by definition take you, you're, you're taking more risk than somebody who's an employee. And if that's not what you want to do, then maybe just stick to being an employee. And by the way, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, like, I encourage people away from entrepreneurship as often as I can because it's not for everybody. And it, and it is much more difficult to see a path to success in that area. If you have a high value skill like sales or marketing or something like that, you could probably make more money in a shorter period of time by just being an employee somewhere and being the best employee that that person has. So I'm not even, I'm not knocking that path. I'm just saying that if you have this goal and you want this thing, then you have to be willing to take the action of somebody who has achieved that thing or you will not get to that point. You have to take the action of the future self now or you can't create that future self.

Mick (22:42)

Amen to that, bro. Amen to that. You know, I was literally having this conversation with someone two days ago and I said, aside from a family heir, I don't know a single entrepreneur that didn't go through the dirt, the grind, the mud. Right. I really don't. Now, sometimes that, that dirt, grind, mud was six months, sometimes it's six years. But we all go through it. And to your point, Sometimes if your skill set isn't true visionary and execution. It's okay to be a cmo. It's okay to be the chief sales officer of a company. Right. Like there's, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think sometimes in society and what we see on social media is we, we assume that everyone has it figured out. And, and that's far from the case. I mean, I would say, Travis, I'm still trying to figure some things out. Right. Like I'm always going to be learning something and getting frustrated about, oh my gosh, I can't believe this or how do I overcome this. But I also am perspective prepared for it.

Travis Chapel (23:44)

Absolutely, dude. Yeah. And you. I just had this conversation with a buddy recently who had a tough time in business. Crazy. A bunch of stuff outside of his control happened, a bunch of lawsuits, had to file bankruptcy. And he's, he's right now working like two or three different sales gigs. But he's making his business at. Even when his business was doing well, it was doing, you know, seven figures, you know, 1.5, 1.6 million a year by all objective standards. Like that's, that's the dream that most people are looking for. I want a million dollar business. He makes more in take home personal income now as a sales guy for a couple different companies than he ever did running his business. Even though it was generating 1.5, $1.6 million in top line revenue. Like the numbers that you see online that glorify entrepreneurship, typically they're from people who are trying to sell you some sort of entrepreneurship course. Yeah. And they're not being honest about what they actually make on the money that they say they make. You're seeing top line revenue and top line revenue only. You don't know exactly what that person's taking home. And odds are as an employee, you could probably make more money personal take home income. So like, that's why I say you have to examine the goals, you have to examine the dream and ask yourself, is this something that I truly want? Because if it is something that you truly want, then you're not ever going to be able to be an employee.

Mick (24:56)

Right.

Travis Chapel (24:57)

Like, you're not going to be happy doing that path and you're going to have to take the entrepreneurship path. But if you're going to take that path, just understand it comes with a different risk profile. And if you want to be successful doing that thing, you got to be willing to do the things that employee mindset people are not going to be willing to do. So it's take your pick. You know what I mean? You don't have to do one path or the other path and one of them's not better than the other one. It's different for everybody. But choose wisely because if you take that mindset into the entrepreneurial path, it's just probably not going to work out super well for you.

Mick (25:29)

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Mick (27:58)

Amen, brother. Amen. So, Travis, I hate saying the word expert, but I get to say it with you. You are the podcast expert because you figured it out. You figured it out on multiple levels, too. And again, I want to talk to current podcasters, future podcasters, right now because you are the expert of leveraging podcasting for your brand growth. Right. Let's talk to the viewers and listeners about how important understanding the brand is first and foremost when it comes to podcasting. Because that's what, again, when I learned from you, that's what I took. Right? Like you're creating this brand. Your messaging has to be the same. Right. You have to know who your audience is and don't try to be the podcast for everyone. Right. Like, if you know who you are, you'll grow much faster than trying to say, I just want this generic. We'll talk about whatever. People don't listen to those, unfortunately. So talk about the brand of podcasting a little bit.

Travis Chapel (29:02)

Yeah. If you're going to talk to everybody, you're going to talk to nobody. And you better be really sure that you just enjoy it and it's. And you can label it as a hobby and that's totally fine. Do that, you know, Totally fine. But if you're wanting something that has impact on your business or on your branding or on your ability to generate revenue, then it's got to be something that goes in line with the things that you're doing inside of your business. So the highest leverage impact point that I ever recognized was bringing on high value guests to the show. Because I realized that it was, it was this. It was the same idea of the thing that Nike invests tens of billions of dollars a year in every single year for the last 40 freaking years, which is endorsements. There's a reason that they invest that much money in endorsements. It's because they want you to have the association of their brand in your mind with greatness when it comes to athletic performance. You know, like when they, like, Nike wasn't always a golf brand. They're huge in golf now. But when they started, they got one really key endorsement from a guy named Tiger Woods. And there's one clip that's like solidified in golf history that really, like exploded Nike onto the golf scene, which was Tiger woods at the Masters. There's a chip in off of the, off of the green. And it was almost like, it was almost like the Nike gods, like Greek gods of Nike were just, were just engineering this moment to last in people's minds. But the ball literally hung on the edge of the cup for like a half a second, like way too long. And everybody on the edge of their seats looking at the ball, like trying to see if it's going to go in and what's the picture. Everybody's minds. It like that Nike swoosh was just staring at the camera right in the face as it hung on the edge of the cup. And the world was watching. It fell in the cup. That solidified in everybody's minds forever that like, Nike is a golf brand. So when I'm, when I'm looking at, you know, brands online, ev, like the, it used to be pr, right? It used to be like featured in Forbes Entrepreneur Inc. And, and TechCrunch and Business Insider and all these other things. And those things are still helpful. However, PR's kind of become a little bit of a cluster in the last decade, decade and a half where there's a lot of, there's just a lot of ways to be able to get the logo on your website that don't actually really mean anything. So that became, that became kind of bottom of the barrel barrier to entry. So if you're looking at two, you know, landing pages or two websites and one of them has zero of those endorsements and another one has 15 publications they've been featured in, you're probably going to trust the one that has more publications, obviously. However, like I said, that's become more the barrier to entry. So what I started to realize is that when, when I would put those there, I didn't get as much impact as when people saw that I was sharing the stage quote unquote on my podcast with names that they knew, liked, trust recognized. They've already read seven of their books. It's like, I don't know who this Travis guy is, but if this person feels that it's a good use of their time to be spending time with Travis, then it's probably a good use of my time. And so you, you start winning out over those other things where like, people are looking at my services and comparing it to a competitor. It's like we might both have all the PR pieces that there. But if you come to, to my site or my landing page and you see 17 people who, whose content you've been following online for the past decade and you didn't know who I was before that. You're instantly just going to be like, this guy must know what he's doing or these people wouldn't be spending some of their coveted time with him. So I started noticing early on that when it came to like, brand perception and the highest leverage impact in my business, it was sharing the stage with those types of to people. And if you're waiting for the magic moment where you just get invited to speak on stage and actually share the stage with them, it's probably not going to happen. So what I did is I just created my own stage and invited those people on and then I was able to create my own perception arc in the minds of the people that I was trying to talk to the most, bro.

Mick (33:07)

We have so much in common, man. Like, like so much. Again, that's, that's very similar blueprint to, to me and what I've done with my brand and the book and everything I have going on. I want to give you the floor, man. Because one of the most powerful tools and resources that I've ever seen specific to the podcast space is your product, Guestio. Like, talk to us a little bit about that, Your. Your mindset of creating it, the problem you were solving by creating it, and just what the solution does for podcasts.

Travis Chapel (33:39)

So funny enough, man, I actually just sold Gestio two months ago, so it is no longer my creation. It's under a brand called Silver Speaker Hub. They do the same thing for speakers. So they acquired Guestio to, to take care of the podcasting space. But yeah, it's essentially so Ron.

Mick (33:55)

Yeah, yeah, Ron Stor. Yeah, I know Ron.

Travis Chapel (33:57)

Yep, yep, Ron acquired it. Yeah. And he's doing a great job with it. So definitely go check out some of the stuff that they're working on. But yeah, it was, it was essentially that, man. It was like, how, how do I shortcut? You know, the, the question I always got was, how do you go get these guests? And the answer is a lot of hard work and persistence over a long period of time, which is not the answer that most people like to hear. So I just created the shortcut, which is essentially instead of paying a speaking fee to have this person come speak at your stage, which might be 150 grand, you can pay them a thousand bucks to be on your podcast and you can share the stage with them on the podcast. So it just kind of became like a shortcut to the booking process for guests and then also the show side as well. Getting on, getting on top ranked podcasts as well.

Mick (34:39)

That's awesome, dude. So I didn't know that. I don't know why I didn't know that. I know Ron. He didn't even, he didn't even tell me about it, like three weeks ago.

Travis Chapel (34:48)

Yeah, you got to ask him about it.

Mick (34:50)

So, so, Trav, man, let's talk about what you have going on now. Like, you have, you always have things going on. So let's talk about Travis Chapel a little bit and the things that you're doing.

Travis Chapel (35:01)

Yeah, man. So kind of taking a breather after, after selling the company. Just trying to figure out what I want to do next. So in the meantime, we've just been really hitting the gas on the podcast. So we're, we're increasing Travis makes money to two releases a day now. So we're doing like 60 episodes a month on that show and just really trying to increase sponsorship revenue and monetization on that show. So we've gotten it to a point now where it's doing, you know, this year we'll do probably north of half a million on like, sponsorship revenue alone, which was always the goal for me. I always wanted, like, I want to be a podcaster and not have to do like, a bunch of other things, but also I still like podcasting a lot. So we're also doing, you know, podcast and content coaching and consulting a little bit on the side as well. So anybody that, anybody that wants us to take a peek at their brain or work with us in a way to help them set up their, their business for success, you can go to travischapel.com coaching. There's an application there to apply to work with us on that end. Typically working with established businesses, seven, eight figure founders who are really just missing the content piece because that's where we have the highest leverage impact there. And obviously we don't been doing this for a long time, so we're not super cheap on that, but we also can drive impact. So we do some, do some work over there as well. So now just trying to think about what's next, man. Like, what do I really want to sink my teeth into?

Mick (36:17)

I love it. And I'm going to say what Travis didn't say. He tried to, to be polite there, but Travis, I, I do coaching as well too. What he's saying is he's going to make sure your investment is also worth his time.

Travis Chapel (36:28)

That's exactly.

Mick (36:29)

So, yeah, I, I, I was picking up what you were putting down, brother, because I, I literally have to do the same thing. Right. But again, if you want Travis's Commitment. You also have to be committed. But I will personally tell you and vouch that Travis is not only the guy, but he's just a great human. Right? Like, Travis genuinely cares about his clients, he cares about his network, he cares about his communities and. And Travis, man, I just want to applaud you for, for being real because real does recognize real brother.

Travis Chapel (37:01)

I appreciate it, dude. Thanks so much for having me on the show and asking some really good questions, man. It's always a good time.

Mick (37:06)

You got it. Where can people find and follow you?

Travis Chapel (37:08)

Travischappel.com is kind of like the hub, but if I'm going to send you to one place in particular, we just launched a brand new long form YouTube channel that is more of the hobby on my end where like Travis makes money. The podcast is the one that's been around for a long time. That one does well and is totally fine. But Travis makes Friends is kind of like the new hobby podcast of mine. And so we're trying to just get more attention over there. So that's at Travis chapel podcast on YouTube. We just started that a month or two ago, but starting from scratch, man. So it's an interesting feeling to be doing this for as long as we've been doing it and starting from scratch. So if you want to go somewhere for like 60 to 90 minute conversations about comedy, health, fitness, some business and entrepreneurship as well, then at Travis chapel podcast on YouTube.

Mick (37:53)

I love it, man. I'll make sure we have links to all of that. Again, thank you for being a great friend. Thank you for being the person that you are. I owe you more than you'll ever know, bro.

Travis Chapel (38:03)

Appreciate you, man. Thanks a lot. Means a lot to me.

Mick (38:06)

You got it. For all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

Travis Chapel (38:14)

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unplugged. If today hits you hard, then imagine what's next. Be sure to subscribe, rate and share this with someone who needs it. And most of all, make a plan and take action because the next level is already waiting for you.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice (38:32)

Have a question or insight to share.

Travis Chapel (38:34)

Send us an email to hello. Ickunplugged.com until next time, ask yourself how you can step up.