Episode Overview

Podcast: Mick Unplugged
Host: Mick Hunt
Guest: Matthew Kohut (Communication advisor, author, coach to presidential candidates, CEOs, and TED speakers)
Episode Title: Matthew Kohut: Why Your Open Door Policy Isn't Enough
Date: July 10, 2025

This episode centers around modern leadership and communication, challenging conventional wisdom—specifically the notion that an "open door policy" is sufficient for effective leadership. Matthew Kohut discusses how presence, listening, strength, warmth, and the courage to engage with difficult social issues are at the core of powerful leadership today. The conversation covers practical strategies, Kohut's latest book Speak Out, and actionable tips for leaders navigating a rapidly changing, high-stakes communication landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovering the "Because" (01:25–03:52)

• Mick launches the episode by asking Kohut about his "because"—the deeper motivation beyond "why".
  • Matthew Kohut:

    "For me, the because is communication is at the heart of everything... It's how we get along... and the commitment to making people as good at it as they can possibly be is always something that makes me... it just hasn't bored me yet." (01:44)

• Kohut shares how his interest in communication evolved from writing and speechwriting into a lifelong commitment to understanding and coaching great communication.
  • Kohut:

    "It wasn't something that I innately knew I had a depth in." (03:28)

2. The Core Trait of Great Leaders: Exceptional Listening (04:23–05:52)

• Listening as the most vital leadership trait.
  • Kohut:

    "The great quality they have is they're great listeners. And it's not about what they say. It's about the fact that they listen first and they're really attentive to the people they're with." (04:23)

  • Kohut suggests: Try to be the "best listener in the room."
  • Mick references Les Brown:

    "Listen to the listening. Because everything that people say isn't verbal." (05:29)

3. Balancing Strength and Warmth (06:05–08:45)

• Definition:
  • Strength = Capability, competence, assertiveness
  • Warmth = Sharing and understanding others' concerns, interests, emotions
  • Most leaders lead more naturally with one; great leadership is context-specific.
  • Kohut:

    "Leadership is so context specific... the balance of strength and warmth that worked in one place absolutely wouldn't work in another." (08:35)

4. Practical Self-Assessment and Feedback (09:08–10:09)

• Kohut recommends:
  • Ask trusted colleagues for feedback.
  • Record and watch yourself: "See yourselves as others see you."
  • Look for cues: Are you coming across as a "Mack truck" or as "uncertain and tentative"?

5. Speaking Out—The Book: Leaders and Social Issues (10:43–14:48)

• Genesis of the book:
  • Kohut was struck by CEOs and corporate leaders increasingly speaking on social/political issues—something previous generations rarely did.
  • Kohut:

    "I wanted to try and understand, is there a place for corporate leaders to talk about political and social issues? If so, when, why and how." (11:27)

• Real-time communication pressure:
  • Leaders must be nimble, risk/reward aware, and audience-specific.
  • Sometimes, the right move is "strategic silence," anchoring to the company mission.

6. Taking a Stand as a Leader: Business vs. Personal (15:41–17:01)

• Prioritizing business when needed:
  • "You have to be about the business first when you're a corporate leader."
• Example:
  • Dick’s Sporting Goods CEO, after the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, chose to stop selling certain firearms despite the business impact—a values-driven decision.
  • Kohut:

    "Every now and then you actually just need to plant your feet and take the stand and take the hit." (16:44)

7. Core Lessons from "Speak Out" (17:26–19:21)

• Listen before you speak.
• Values-driven leadership:
  • Know your “North Star" and communicate decisions from that foundation.
• Communication as accountability:
  • If you take a stand, back it up with action.
  • Kohut:

    "If they're taking a position... they're actually going to put their money where their mouth is... Otherwise, it's just PR." (18:44)

8. Communication & Accountability (19:21–19:53)

• "You stand behind what you say... if people don't see that you do what you say, or that you're gonna follow through, then ultimately your brand as a leader becomes hollow." (19:21)

9. Debunking Leadership Myths & Clichés (19:53–22:42)

• Myth 1: The Open Door Policy
  • Mick:

    "If you're present for your team, you don't need an open door policy because they see you." (20:09)

  • Kohut concurs:

    "Either you're there for people and they know they can have a direct line with you, or you're not. And, yeah, I also think it's just not true usually." (20:44)

• Myth 2: Leaders must display intelligence through complex speech:
  • Mick:

    "You never have to tell people as a leader how smart you are..." (21:16)

  • Kohut:

    "Using the language of the people you talk to is critically important. That's the fundamental of warmth..." (21:32)
    Short, simple words convey more punch and clarity.

10. Knowing Your Team: Informal Connections (22:50–25:24)

• Great leaders know their people deeply—better even than the reverse.
• Five-minute conversations and informal chats (even "more tea" moments) break down barriers and foster communication.
  • Kohut recounts a story:

    "More conversations of the informal type that people have while they're taking their tea break... It's breaking bread with people. It's having that cup of coffee and just getting to know people..." (24:14)

11. Final Notes & Where to Find More (25:38–26:15)

• Kohut’s website: matthewkohut.com
• Socials: LinkedIn, Instagram, Bluesky, etc.
• Key takeaway:

  "Remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it." — Mick (26:18)

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• "The great quality they have is they're great listeners. And it's not about what they say. It's about the fact that they listen first and they're really attentive to the people they're with."
  — Matthew Kohut (04:23)

• "Leadership is so context specific. And I think you can look at great leaders and say the balance of strength and warmth that worked in one place absolutely wouldn't work in another."
  — Matthew Kohut (08:35)

• "If you have a chance to record yourself... suddenly you realize, wait, I'm coming across like a Mack truck at people, or I'm coming across as a little uncertain and tentative..."
  — Matthew Kohut (09:32)

• "I wanted to try and understand, is there a place for corporate leaders to talk about political and social issues? If so, when, why and how."
  — Matthew Kohut (11:27)

• "You have to do some really quick risk reward in your head when you're thinking about this... who, who's the audience here that really needs to hear from me on this?"
  — Matthew Kohut (12:54)

• "Every now and then you actually just need to plant your feet and take the stand and take the hit."
  — Matthew Kohut (16:44)

• "If they're taking a position... they're actually going to put their money where their mouth is... Otherwise, it's just PR."
  — Matthew Kohut (18:44)

• "You stand behind what you say, and if people don't see that you do what you say or that you're gonna follow through, then ultimately your brand as a leader becomes hollow."
  — Matthew Kohut (19:21)

• "Using the language of the people you talk to is critically important. That's the fundamental of warmth..."
  — Matthew Kohut (21:32)

• "More conversations of the informal type that people have while they're taking their tea break... breaking bread with people... just getting to know people when they have their guard down..."
  — Matthew Kohut (24:14)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 01:44 — Kohut's "because": communication as a driving force
• 04:23 — The core leadership trait: listening
• 06:31 — Defining and balancing strength & warmth
• 09:08 — Practical ways for leaders to self-evaluate communication style
• 10:43 — Origin of Speak Out and rise of social issues in corporate leadership
• 12:54 — Navigating real-time communication on high-stakes issues
• 15:41 — Business vs. personal stance, real-world leader examples
• 17:26 — Lessons from Speak Out: Listening, values, action
• 19:21 — Communication as the basis for real accountability
• 20:30 — Why an "open door policy" isn't enough
• 21:32 — Simplicity and connection in leadership language
• 23:46 — Informal conversations and knowing your team
• 25:38 — Where to find more from Matthew Kohut

Takeaways for Modern Leaders

• Presence beats policy: Being present with your team eliminates the need for an “open door” sign on your office.
• Be the best listener in the room: Listening is the foundation of emotional intelligence and great leadership.
• Balance strength and warmth: Adapt your approach to the context and to your natural tendencies; seek honest feedback and self-awareness.
• Communicate with purpose and clarity: Use simple, resonant language appropriate for your audience.
• Act on your words: Leadership credibility is built when proclamations are matched by concrete actions and follow-through.
• Lead with values: Articulate your organization’s “why” and let it guide your internal and public stance on issues.
• Don’t skip the small talks: Casual interactions build the trust and organizational knowledge that enable everything else.

For more:
Book: Speak Out by Matthew Kohut
Website: matthewkohut.com
Social: LinkedIn, Instagram, Bluesky