Episode Summary

Podcast: Mick Unplugged
Host: Mick Hunt (Realm)
Guest: Chris Voss
Episode Title: Never Split the Difference: Life Lessons with Chris Voss
Date: November 1, 2025

Overview

This episode features a candid, wisdom-packed conversation between host Mick Hunt and renowned former FBI hostage negotiator, author, and business consultant Chris Voss. Together, they explore the concept of discovering your "because"—the deeper motivation that drives impact—through the lens of modern leadership, negotiation, empathy, and personal growth. Chris shares stories from his storied career, insights into negotiation and leadership, and lessons about kindness, collaboration, and building strong communities (and bourbons).

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Because" – Deeper Than Just 'Why' (00:42–03:59)

• Mick opens by expressing heartfelt gratitude to Chris, labeling him as one of the three influential "kings" who shaped his business journey (00:04).
• Chris explains his "because":
  • Helping people makes him feel truly good and satisfied.
  • Everyone is capable of extraordinary things, regardless of background or talents:

    “I do think of myself as just like this regular guy... everybody's capable of being extraordinary if they just will. If they just say, okay, I could do this.” (01:16)

  • The joy of impacting others through meaningful work.
• The power of surrounding oneself with ordinary but hardworking, fun people to achieve extraordinary results in high-stakes environments (02:55–03:53).

2. The Path to Hostage Negotiation and Learning on the Job (03:59–08:14)

• Chris’s entry to federal law enforcement was serendipitous—never planned to become an FBI agent or a negotiator (04:34).
• Pivotal moments:
  • Almost joined the Secret Service due to a fascination with travel (04:55).
  • Switched paths after suffering knee injuries on SWAT duty, leading to volunteering on a suicide hotline.
• Profound revelation about the magic of emotional intelligence and empathy from suicide hotline training.
• Windfall event: Successfully negotiating a rare bank robbery with hostages in New York, leading to teaching and reinforcing the importance of teaching to master a skill:

  “If you’re not doing something, even if you’re doing it on a regular basis, you want to really immerse yourself, try to teach it.” (07:06)

3. Personal Growth: "Be Nicer" and the Three Conflict Types (08:14–17:46)

• When asked what he’d tell his younger self, Chris responds simply: "Be nicer." (08:31)
• Explains the three basic conflict approaches—fight, flight, make friends—asserting most people are naturally wired one way (08:38–09:53).
• Identifies himself as an "assertive" type, valuing respect above friendship, and notes the difference between being respected and being liked:

  “You might not like me, but you’re going to respect me.” (15:02)

• Lessons in kindness:

  “Kind is the default game theory long term success option. Long term success strategy is kindness.” — Conrad Gomez, cited by Chris (16:54)

• Tips for each type:
  • Assertives: Be kinder in your delivery.
  • Analysts: Open up and appear warmer.
  • Accommodators: Learn to assert themselves more.

4. Empathy in Practice: The Power of Emotional Intelligence (22:03–28:35)

• Critique of how media and entertainment misrepresent empathy (“I know how you feel” is ineffective in real life).
• Chris’s story of using empathy to bond powerfully with a bride at a wedding, despite never having experienced her situation:

  “I laid out to her every single thing that she went to through which is empathy. Now, I couldn’t say I know what it’s like to be a bride... But I laid it all out to her. And that’s the magic of empathy.” (26:32)

• The true power of empathy is often invisible to onlookers, yet transformative for those on the receiving end.

5. Leadership & Negotiation: Beyond Salary (29:21–33:33)

• Chris reframes negotiation for leaders:
  • Not just about salary—every interaction involving time, effort, or a person’s future is a negotiation.
  • The core of negotiation is establishing trust about the future; people must feel understood and appreciated.
  • Reflects on how lack of modeled appreciation in his upbringing influenced his own leadership style, and how he’s since learned to actively and verbally appreciate people:

    “...I’m getting people working hard and working longer hours and having more fun because even if their future is uncertain, if I’m appreciating them in a moment, they’re there for us.” (31:20)

6. Never Split the Difference: Book, Brand, and Culture (18:09–22:03 / 38:35–40:09)

• Mick’s team culture mandates reading "Never Split the Difference" because of its comprehensive insights for leadership and relationships.
• Chris shares his gratitude that the book resonates globally; views its success as proof that human nature favors collaboration, contrary to divisive media narratives (19:42).
• The legacy and impact of community—and how business culture, like the "Never Split the Difference" Society and bourbon project, brings like-minded people together in a movement bigger than the product itself:

  “...the Society, the bourbon’s great, but that tight knit community, that tight knit family, second to none.” (38:35)

7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Belief:

  "If I could do well, you could do well. There ain’t that much to it." — Chris Voss (02:06)

• On Leadership:

  "Kind is the default game theory long term success option." (16:54)

• On Empathy:

  "She didn’t remember a single word that I said… she feels bonded to me. She gives me this great big hug." (26:32)

• On Negotiation:

  "You’re really asking somebody to trust you with their future." (30:12)

Notable Timestamps

• 00:42: Mick on the difference between ‘why’ and ‘because’; Chris describes his deeper purpose.
• 03:59: Chris discusses his unconventional journey into hostage negotiation.
• 08:14: “Be nicer”—Chris’s advice to his younger self and breakdown of personality conflict types.
• 15:02–17:46: On the currency of respect vs. being liked, and operationalizing kindness in leadership.
• 18:09–19:42: Mick on the “Never Split the Difference” effect in his company.
• 22:03: Why leaders overlook emotional intelligence and empathy; why it’s so powerful and often invisible.
• 26:32: Chris recounts the story of empathizing with a bride at a wedding.
• 30:12: Negotiation is about trust, not just transactional deals.
• 38:35: The “Never Split the Difference” Society community, culture, and bourbon project.

Tone & Atmosphere

• Warmly candid, humorous, and deeply earnest
• Both host and guest are open about their weaknesses, personal development, and passion for helping others succeed
• Frequent playful banter and storytelling, making serious lessons accessible and actionable

Actionable Insights for Listeners

• Discover your “because”—a purpose more profound than your “why.”
• Approach leadership and negotiation with empathy and appreciation.
• Kindness in leadership isn’t weakness; it’s the path to long-term success.
• Build your tribe by investing in genuine relationships and celebrating team wins.
• Culture isn’t just a perk—it’s foundational to lasting organizational and personal success.

For Full Experience:
Listen to the episode for more stories, detailed frameworks, and the signature warmth between Mick Hunt and Chris Voss.