Power and Purpose: Congressman Jim Clyburn Talks Legacy

Summary

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Mick Unplugged: Power and Purpose — Congressman Jim Clyburn Talks Legacy

Host: Mick Hunt
Guest: Congressman Jim Clyburn
Date: December 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Mick Unplugged, host Mick Hunt is joined by legendary Congressman Jim Clyburn for a transformative discussion on historical legacy, mentorship, and the power of storytelling in leadership. The episode centers around Clyburn’s new book, The First Eight, which illuminates the lives and impact of the eight African Americans who preceded him in Congress from South Carolina. Clyburn shares insights into his upbringing, the critical role of mentorship, and why understanding history is essential for modern leaders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis and Importance of The First Eight

[03:10 – 06:38]

• Origins of the Book:
  Clyburn describes being asked about photographs of the eight Black Congressmen from South Carolina in his office. This spurred him to document their stories.

  “She said to me, I thought you were the first African American to serve in Congress from South Carolina... No, before I was first, there were eight.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 03:46)

• Catalyst for Writing:
  The January 6th, 2021 insurrection was a wake-up call. Clyburn saw direct historical parallels with the disputed 1876 election and subsequent end of Reconstruction:

  “I know what’s happening here. They are trying to get this count stopped so they can get this election thrown into the House of Representatives, just like was done in 1876. And when that happened... that is what started the end [of] Reconstruction. That's what started the beginning of Jim Crow. I said, that is what is happening here.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 05:39)

• Book's Intent:
  Clyburn sees the book as a way to reclaim and disseminate essential African American historical narratives, fostering mentorship across generations.

2. Storytelling, Oratory, and Leadership

[07:25 – 10:43]

• Influence of Family and Early Practice:
  Clyburn credits his father, a minister, for instilling discipline in daily recitations and discussions.

  “Every morning before breakfast, we had to recite a Bible verse. And then every evening before retiring to bed, we had to share with him and my mother a current event... That was a requirement.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 07:48)

• Discovery of His Oratorical Gift:
  Through activism at South Carolina State College and leadership in civil rights sit-ins, Clyburn became recognized for his ability to inspire through voice and prayer, always mindful of inclusivity.

• On Intonation and Presence:

  “People were just as attracted to my intonations as they were to my recitations... I was always creative with these prayers... addressing the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 08:51)

3. Mentorship and Learning Beyond Books

[15:00 – 20:00]

• Personal Mentors:
  Clyburn reflects on his father’s resilience—how he self-educated after being denied formal education due to racist policies, ultimately supporting Clyburn’s own ambitions.

  “There’s a certain amount of education... that you gotta get outside of the books. And so I try hard now to really soak up stuff that I hear from people, soak up stuff that I may see on the evening news or read in the newspaper and try to make it relevant.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 17:18)

• Historical Heroes as Mentors:
  The stories of the “First Eight”—especially Robert Smalls—serve as vital mentorship for Clyburn:

  “Among the eight, Robert Smalls was head and shoulders above all the rest... born into slavery, able to escape, bring his whole family and friends with him... within six months, he’s sitting down with the President.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 18:30)

4. Lessons from South Carolina’s Forgotten Trailblazers

[20:00 – 26:48]

• The Legacy of Robert Smalls:
  Described as “the most consequential South Carolinian who ever lived,” Smalls exemplified courage, ingenuity, and the pursuit of education despite daunting odds.

  “If you look [at] the consequences... the consequences of his life... can mess you up to Robert Smalls.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 21:28)

• Hidden Stories of African American Leaders:
  Clyburn shares lesser-known facts, e.g., Thomas E. Miller, the first president of South Carolina State, was African American by choice and not by birth, showing how identity and purpose intersect.

• Inclusivity and Integration:
  The University of South Carolina’s role as the South’s only integrated institution post-Civil War illustrates untold progressive histories.

  “University of South Carolina was the only Southern institution that was integrated during and after the Civil War.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 26:36)

5. Passing the Torch — The Power of Reading and Action

[26:55 – 28:06]

• Legacy and Modern Mentorship:
  Rudy Rush pledges to buy the first 20 responders a copy of The First Eight, cementing the theme of passing wisdom forward.

  “The first 20 people that message me, ‘The First Eight,’ I'm giving you a copy of the book. I'm going to buy them for them.”
  (Rudy Rush, 27:13)

• Clyburn’s Hope for the Book:

  “I hope that the people will find in this book, let’s just say, substance and sustenance to weather the storm in this country... I do believe that we’re going to get through these challenging times because I saw what these eight people did and did not do and what we can learn from it. This book was written with that in mind.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 27:33)

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Memorable Quotes

• “Before I was first, there were eight.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 03:46)

• “They are trying to get this count stopped so they can get this election thrown into the House of Representatives, just like was done in 1876... That is what is happening here.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 05:39)

• “There’s a certain amount of education... that you gotta get outside of the books.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 17:18)

• “Robert Smalls is the most consequential South Carolinian, bar none.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 21:00)

• “I hope that the people will find in this book... substance and sustenance to weather the storm in this country.”
  (Congressman Clyburn, 27:33)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:10 – 06:38: The inspiration and historical context behind The First Eight
• 07:25 – 10:43: Clyburn’s upbringing, discovery of oratory power, and its leadership impact
• 15:00 – 20:00: The role of mentorship and learning outside of formal education
• 20:00 – 26:48: Deep dives into Robert Smalls, Thomas E. Miller, and hidden legacies
• 26:55 – 28:06: The importance of passing stories forward and Clyburn’s hopes for the book’s impact

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Tone & Takeaways

The tone is reverent, educational, rooted in both humility and pride. The conversation is rich in historical detail and modern relevance, tying personal stories to larger themes of leadership and social progress. Listeners are encouraged to embrace mentorship, look beyond surface-level history, and recognize the power of perseverance in forging purpose-driven lives.

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Transcript

[Mick Hunt]

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You're listening to Mick Unplugged. Hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get Unplugged.

[Mick Hunt]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of MC Unplugged.

[Rudy Rush]

And today, I literally get to sit down with one of my heroes. You know, he's advised presidents, he's reshaped.

[Mick Hunt]

The course of American history with a single endorsement.

[Rudy Rush]

We're talking about. From the halls of Congress to the heart of the movement, his voice has never wavered. It's been a compass for change, for justice and for unity. He is the visionary, he is the.

[Mick Hunt]

Resolute, he is the legendary.

[Rudy Rush]

He is my congressman, Mr. Jim Clyburn. I am so honored to spend some time with someone being from South Carolina. Being a young black man from South Carolina, you've shaped who I was, who I've become, and the legacy that I'm trying to create. And that all stemmed from you showing me it was possible. So I wanted to take just a moment and just say thank you and I mean that from my soul.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Rudy Rush]

And I would be remiss if you if we didn't talk about out of the gate, this amazing book that you were writing, the first eight. And we talk about the legacy I want to leave behind. You put your legacy in writing for us. I'd love for you to just talk about the first eight, where the thought came from to put this out and who you hope to touch with this amazing book that you have.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Thank you. When I published my memoir 10 years ago, 2015, one day, somewhere thereafter, a group came to my office when I was a majority whip and I had on the wall of my conference room these eight pictures. They're pictures of the eight African Americans who serve in Congress from South Carolina before me. One of the people in the group asked me who they were, and when I told them, she said to me, I thought you were the first African American to serve in Congress from South Carolina. And I kind of playfully said to her, no, before I was first, there were eight. And later that day, I said to myself, you know, maybe one day after I get over this book we just published, I might write a book about these eight people. Because I think so many of them are so important to our history that Joseph Rainey, who was the first African American to be elected to the House of Representatives and sworn in on December 12, 1970, Richard Kane, who was number four in that group. Richard Kane became an AME bishop and had pastored Emmanuel AME Church down in Charleston. Then there's Smalls, Robert Smalls from Beaufort. Robert Smalls is only to me, genuine hero of the Civil War. And it served in the state House of Representatives here in Columbia and in the Congress. I said, I'm going to write about these people. And so I started taking notes and not really getting too serious about it. Then January 6, 2021 hit. And while we were sitting in this so called undisclosed location, having been rushed off the House floor for safety, I said to people around me, I know what's happening here. They are trying to get this count stopped so they can get this election thrown into the House of Representatives, just like was done in 1876. And when that happened, that is what started the end Reconstruction. That's what started the beginning of Jim Crow. I said, that is what is happening here. So then I got serious about doing this book. And then when my communications director retired in the middle of doing the book, she said to me, I'm going to retire, but I want you to finish this book you write, I'll do the copy editing, I'll do the footnoting. You just write and send me what you've written. And that's what led to the book and that's what led to this production that's going to be released on November 11th.

[Rudy Rush]

And I can't wait again. Being from South Carolina and knowing what that history means to me, I almost wonder what took so long. But then I go, the only person that could do it is Jim Clyburn. So I don't ask what took so long knowing you. Like I know you and I followed you forever and I've seen you speak and I've got to shake your hand. I know I'm not going to ask you to remember, but I've got to shake your hand. I know how you storytell, so I can't wait to see how you put this together in story form because you are one of the greatest orators of my generation in the state of South Carolina.

[Mick Hunt]

My kids don't even know what the word orator means. Right.

[Rudy Rush]

But you are. You were one of the most eloquent, not from how you talk, but the impact that your words make. When did you realize you had that gift?

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Well, when I was growing up, my dad was a minister and we often talked about me following him into the ministry. And of course, I didn't know what my dad was doing. But we had among the rules we had to live by. One was every morning before breakfast, we had to recite a Bible verse. And then every evening before retiring to bed, we had to share with him and my mother a current event. We didn't have tv, so you had to read the afternoon newspapers when it was delivered to our home. And that was a requirement. Finish your homework, then let's talk about this card. Debat. And so I grew up with all of that. And I. I used to watch my dad. He was a pretty good arter himself. And I was blessed with the vocal cords that he had. And I guess when I got to South Carolina State, because when I was in high school, it was more the band and the choir. For a while there were people who thought that I should sing. But when I got to South Carolina State, I got involved in the sit ins. And it so happened that before every march or even every meeting that we had, I was always called on to do the prayer to open the meeting. It's when I first detected that people were just as attracted to my intonations as they were to my recitations. And so I would always Be creative with these prayers I was given. For instance, you know, I was sensitive to people's different religious backgrounds. And so I would always open my prayer with addressing the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. That's the way I always did it in order to not insult folks. There were just one or two people on stage campus who calls themselves Muslims then every now and then, especially during the movement, there were a lot of Jewish people involved with our efforts. And I didn't want any talking about it. And so that's the way I would open every prayer. But then people started talking to me about, about my voice. And that's when I first realized that my dad said a lot of things and offered a lot of compliments, but he never said anything to me about my voice being any distinct. And then it still happens. I sometimes get on airplanes and the moment people, they recognize my voice before they recognize me. And so I found that out when I was a student. And so I can understand and I can tell the difference now. When I develop allergies, my voice changed. People don't recognize me.

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[Rudy Rush]

Expressvpn.com Mick well, again, you're someone who I studied and someone who, when I was in junior high and high school and we had to have speech class or we'd go and do debates again, things that the young kids don't do. Now, I would pattern myself after you, and I would study the pace of which you spoke and how you put inflections on certain words and how you would use your body and your gestures to get certain points across. And I always felt like it's a lost skill. And so I got to a point now where, like, my kids will study some of your speeches and some of your talks because I want them to understand the power, number one that you have had always. But how they can train themselves and, and really learn from, from men like you. And so, again, I'm just appreciative on.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

So thank you. Yes, sir.

[Mick Hunt]

And I want to come back to.

[Rudy Rush]

The first eight again, because when I, when I first heard about it, I immediately said, wow, the power of mentorship.

[Mick Hunt]

And I'm sure that you didn't know.

[Rudy Rush]

All eight of those, obviously, personally, but I'm sure that all eight provided mentorship to you, just like you have to so many that maybe they don't know you personally, but we follow who you are. Talk to us about what mentorship means to you and how these eight have kind of formed that group of mentors even though again, you. You don't personally or didn't physically know all of them.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

You know. You know, people ask me who the heroes in my life. My dad, I always mentioned first because he was interesting person who grew up in Cusho County, South Carolina, at the time when the state of South Carolina did not provide high school for African Americans. And so he only went through the seventh grade. And then when he was not allowed to go to school anymore, he self taught. And he became sufficient enough to pass a college entrance exam and got into college, but then was never allowed to graduate college because the state had a law at that time that you could not get a college degree if you did not have a high school diploma. And so when he could not produce his high school diploma, they would not allow him to go into his senior year of college. And so that is the kind of stuff that. And the experiences. I would talk to him often about his experiences. Now, I did not know that he had not graduated college until about six months before he passed away. And I found that out from a person who was in the. In college with him, who asked me about him, wanted to know whether or not I knew him because of my last name. And so when he told me that my dad didn't show up their senior year. I then left Hampton county, where this was taking place, and went straight to Sumter. They asked my dad for an explanation and he did it. He gave me the explanation and that's how I know all of this. And six months later he passed away. So he was about to leave this earth with my not ever knowing that part of his history. But what I learned from him is that there's a certain amount of education.

[Rudy Rush]

Yeah.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

That you gotta get outside of the books. And so I try hard now to really soak up stuff that I hear from people, soak up stuff that I may see on the evening news or read in the newspaper and try to make it relevant. Yeah. For instance, you know, I'm not. I never would have recognized what was happening on January 6th had I not soak up some of the stuff my dad told me. Because he first. He was the first one to tell me about Robert Smalls. Yeah. They weren't teaching that in the schools when I was growing up. Right. I Started learning all that stuff on my own. And as one would find in the first eight. And when I talk about these people, I think, think that not even saying the introduction to the book, among the eight, Robert Smalls was head and shoulders above all the rest of them who could be born into slavery as he was, who would have been able to escape from slavery the way he did. And not just alone. He brought his whole family with him and his friends. And when he stole that ship, that planter, he made a stop on his way out of the Charleston harbor to pick up his wife and other friends to and delivered that ship to the Union soldiers. Then within six months of having escaped from slavery, he's sitting down with the President of the United States. In August of 1862, he escaped from slavery back in May. In August he was in Washington D.C. sitting down with Abraham Lincoln. And he came back to South Carolina with authorization to recruit 5,000 African Americans to fight in the Union Army. So he is a genuine hero. Then he ends up with significant wealth, ends up spending 10 years in the state legislature and 10 years in the. In the United States Congress doing without ever achieving a formal education. Now, he did hire folks to. To teach him because he fights for education. And so I say that Robert Smalls is the most consequential South Carolinian who ever lived. And I had a gentleman one time we were down King Street, South Carolina, Martin Luther King Jr. Spoke. The first time he spoke in South Carolina after the passes of the 1965 vote. Right. Was in the little town of King street down in Williamsburg county, which is in my district.

[Rudy Rush]

Yeah.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

And so I'm down there to speak for the 50th anniversary of his visit to King Street. And while I was talking to the group, I reminisce a little bit about Robert Smalls having represented that same area in the United States Congress and how proud I was to be to have inherited his constituency. Well, I said at the time that I thought that Robert Smalls was the most consequential South Carolinian who ever lived. So I came down from the podium, a gentleman came up to me who I knew, who was white, big supporter of mine. And he said to me, he said, no, that was a terrific speech. And he said, you know what? I think I agree with you that Robert Smalls was the most consequential black South Carolinian who ever lived. And I said to him, that is not what I said. I said that Robert Smalls is the most consequential South Carolinian, bar none. Yes, sir, he looked at me with a interesting smile, walked away. And those are that's the last time I was we ever had a conversation. But I'm I think I can demonstrate. Some people may say a John C. Calhoun, some people may say it's Strom Thurman. But if you look the consequences the consequences of his life, yeah, can mess you up to Robert Smalls. And so there are things in this book about Robert Small, but there are things in this book about people like Thomas E. Miller. Thomas Miller of the eight, Miller was number seven. Robert Smalls was number six. Miller succeeded Smalls. And one of the interesting things that people will find in this book that Miller was African American by choice, not by birth. Mill was the first president of South Carolina State. The state was first brought online in 1896. Thomas E. Miller was his first president. He had already been defeated for Congress.

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[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Well, he was not black, not African American. He was the grandson, according to him, of Thomas One of the size of the Declaration of Independence. Yes sir. Now, hey, he admits of having been born out of wedlock and being given up for adoption. And he was adopted by an African American family down in what's now original South Carolina. And they moved to Charleston where he began to work and later went to Lincoln University in Pennsylvania and hbcu. And when he graduated from Lincoln, other than going back to New York where he had come from before going to Lincoln, he decided to come back to South Carolina and he went to law school at the University of South Carolina.

[Rudy Rush]

Wow.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

And that's another thing you learn in this book. University of South Carolina was the only Southern institution that was integrated during and after the Civil War. Wow. Wow.

[Rudy Rush]

I can listen to you all day back here. I can listen to you all day. Here's What I want to do.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Sure.

[Rudy Rush]

Cause I know how busy you are, but you mean so much to me. The first 20 people that are watching or listening to this, that message, me, the first eight, I'm gonna purchase a copy of the book for them.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

I appreciate it.

[Rudy Rush]

I wanna do that. I wanna have you on again. Anytime you wanna be on. You mean the world to me. This book is that important. We'll have links from your team to where they can go get the book. But the first 20 people that message me, the first eight, I'm giving you a copy of the book. I'm going to buy them for them.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Well, thank you so much for doing that. I hope that the people will find in this book, let's just say, substance and sustenance to weather the storm in this country. I do believe that we're going to get through these challenging times because I saw what I have seen, what these eight people did and did not do and what we can learn from it. I really believe people will understand it. This book was written with that in mind.

[Rudy Rush]

You got it, Congressman. Again, I thank you so much for your time. Thank you for who you are. And I can't wait to see you soon in person.

[Congressman Jim Clyburn]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host (Rudy Rush)]

That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged. If this episode moved you, and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen. Share it with someone who needs that spark. And leave a review so more people can find there. Because I'm Rudy Rush. And until next time, stay driven, stay focused and stay unplugged.

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