← Mick Unplugged
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- [00:01]
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- [01:38]
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- [02:08]
Mick Hunt
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of MC Unplugged. And today we have an unparalleled force of leadership. A true titan whose career spans over 25 years of relentless service in counterterrorism and elite special operations. He is a guy who is going to blow your mind with some of the most amazing stories. But most importantly, talking about faith and purpose. Please join me in welcoming the outrageous, the courageous, the truly unstoppable. My guy, Mr. Jeff Teaspoon. You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark Transformation, Mick, takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged. Jeff, how you doing today, brother?
- [03:09]
Jeff Teagues
Thanks, Mick. I don't think I've ever been called a titan, which I'll, I'll take it. I've, I'm. I'm kind of short, you know, I mean, people are always, when they meet me in person, I think they're slightly disappointed. But I will say I'll use this, you know. No, no, no, Mick. Mick said I'm a titan, so take that.
- [03:24]
Mick Hunt
Yeah, it, hey, it's. It's on film and it's on record, so it has to be true, right?
- [03:29]
Jeff Teagues
Let the record show. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited for this discussion. I think that, I mean, there's never a bad time to talk about leadership and purpose and passion, but I think today and what's happening in America is probably as good as ever.
- [03:47]
Mick Hunt
I, I couldn't agree with you more, man. And you know, Jeff, I like to, to start my show by asking my guest one simple question. And that question is, what is your because? What is your purpose? What is that thing in Jeff today that's deeper than your why that really fuse your passion? So, Jeff Teagues, man, what is your because.
- [04:06]
Jeff Teagues
Great question. And I'm, and I'm glad to be able to answer it. I, I sum up my. Because is simply I am a protector. I came to. I came to terms with that years ago and really where it, Where I really started to come to terms with it was questioning why I was sacrificing so much of my time with my family, even my health with, with these wars that became obvious to us that we weren't going to win those wars. We weren't going to win Iraq, we weren't going to win Afghanistan. There was. There just wasn't that national will. Was it something I wanted to continue to pursue and was it something I was willing to put my life on the line for and make I. In that soul searching and even going back into my time, my childhood? And I write about some of these things and it's things that I'm. I like this age where you're. Things have calmed down. I'm not as ambitious. There are certain. There's plenty of stuff in the rearview mirror. There's plenty of water under the bridge and I'm able to look back and I realized a few years back I'm Going to say maybe 2010 ish. I'm a protector. That's what I do. That's who I am. That's what I do. And I will die trying. There's a bunch of different words came into that. A guardian, a fighter, a commando. Those are all kind of aspects that sit under that protector. But that's, that's who I am. That's what God put me on this planet to do. And I see my roles in that continuing until the day I, I move on to the next next phase of things.
- [05:42]
Mick Hunt
I wholeheartedly believe that and I see that. And you know, being a huge fan of yours and studying your works, I mean that truly is what you're about, man. Like your journey from an 18 year old 1st Ranger Battalion right to lieutenant colonel in Delta Force is extraordinary. Was there a moment that you realized that that was your purpose, like being that protector? Was there a pivotal moment that stands out to you?
- [06:11]
Jeff Teagues
It does. And again, I don't want the listeners to misunderstand that I always recognize this or there was nobility in any of this. I was a young man who was hungry for adventure and hungry for challenge and wanted to be part of the best, you know, fighting forces that I could find. This, this, this wasn't pure, you know what I mean? Like I look back on it and God, God's guidance, there was a purity in there that I didn't understand, you know. And so what I would say is as, as we, around 2005 to 2007, we lost a lot of guys. Those are some tough years for special operations in Iraq. Lost some friends, lost some guys. My boys are old enough now to recognize that I'm going into harm's way. I could just feel the strain of it everywhere. And I very distinctly remember looking for people who had discussed this either in story, in documentary, in film, but really probably in books. And I sought these books out, these people that had gone through this and how they navigated it and I couldn't really find anybody that did it. Did it well, so I did come across this book and the author, her name is Maria Coffee and I, I'm sorry, it's. I think it's. It's in the Shadow of the Mountain or Where the Mountain Casts Its Shadow. It's one, it's one of those two, two titles. I can't remember specifically, but she was the fiance of a high altitude alpinist and her fiance died in the high mountains, which you have a much more likelihood of dying as a high altitude alpinist than even you do as a, as a commando in the military, you know, like it, it, it is a very, very dangerous job. So when she lost her fiance, she wrote this book through her grieving process and she was questioning who was he and how did he love the mountains more than he loved his family? And then introspectively, who was she that she loved? This man who she knew was, was putting this pursuit of things in front of her and in front of her family. And she came to the realization that that was his identity. He was a high altitude mountaineer. That's who he was. And that part of that is what attracted her to him. That was exciting and it was unique and it certainly, you know, there was never a boring moment. And even in those times of a volatility of a relationship like that, it was something that she sought and she willingly. She didn't know it at the time, but as she retrospectively looked at it, she was willing to lose him. She was willing to tie herself and bind herself to this man who had this other calling and this other passion. And I, I recommend this to people who are looking for passion and purpose. It really solidified what I was seeking in my own life and it was that identity. And then, you know, I kind of started with commando, right? Because a high, high altitude alpinist is exciting. A commando is exciting. You know, I don't. An assaulter, I don't know what kind of term. And I, and I live for those, but that's feel that felt a little banal, right? Like it really wasn't the fight that I was living for, even though it was a lot of what my drive was. I just love the fight. It really was working with my mates, it really was defending these people that needed to be defended. So I arrived at this idea of a protector and quite honestly make that. There was inflection points in my career where I was thinking about getting out and I thought, nope, one more, one more time. Let me share one other story with you. To this day, it's still a weird one. I was going through this reflection and I, I think it's probably based on my faith. You know, I was, I was born and raised as a, as a Christian who references the Bible. If you, if you want to know about who you are and where you come from, that's the book, right? Those are the stories. So I always, that was always of the bedrock of what I looked at, but I was always looking for other people's stories. And I remember one year and this, this story doesn't make any Sense, because it's, you know, you're, you're old enough to where like this doesn't make any sense memory wise. Like I remember being in Colorado when this happened and I remember, I remember all these pieces and I don't, I can't. If I was in a court of law, I would be, I would, none of this would make sense. They pick me apart. But, but how I remember it, okay, is I woke up one night and I was still pondering this of like, hey, is this time my wife has had some health issues again. I felt like I wasn't giving my boys enough of what they deserved as a father. And I, and I went downstairs and I flipped on the channel and Charlie Rose was on. Who I used to love. I used to love Charlie Rose and that oak wood table and just the diversity of the different people that he would have and what, the questions that he would take them through. And there was this beautiful ballerina and she was sitting across from Charlie and she was, I think she was maybe close to 40 or something like that. And she was just talking about dance and Charlie was talking to her about, you know, how this, as she evolved and she moved through dance. Why, why is she still in it? Why, why hasn't she moved on? You know, a 40 year old, there's no such thing as a 40 year old ballerina. Right. You know, at least at the levels that she had attained. And she said, Charlie, I realized that I lived this very unique life. I was given all of this opportunity. I was trained by the best, I worked with the best. And I, and I'm in a small audience of people that just understands the potential of dance. And Mick, that landed with me where again, you take out high level, high altitude alpinist, you take out ballerina and you put in special operations soldier. I had been selected and trained with the best in the world. I had seen angles of warfare that other people only touch upon or barely understand. The things that you see in movies, the, the spy game, the assault game, the conventional war, you know, airborne insertions, everything that you imagine of warfare and then everything around it. And I realized I've been given much and much is expected. I understand the potential of war. And I, and I think that's going to strike a lot of people as an odd statement, but war is such a valid option to make huge changes in the world and to make life better for people. We just haven't been using it that way of late. So the, the potential of warfare kept me in for a while because of this Ballerina again. I've. I've gone back and I've tried to find that episode with, with Charlie Rose, and I think I found it. I think I recognize the, the. The ballerina, but she never says what I'm telling you. She says, you know, so I don't know if it was cut out or whatever it was. But those two points in time are. Again, this is a long answer to one single question. Those two points in time are. Stand out in my mind where I began to understand myself and who I was and who my passion, purpose was and what it would take for the people that chose to love me or even sons who didn't choose to be around me. My wife and I brought them into this world. They were forced to be with me, what it was that they would have to endure. Endure. And then obviously, when it was time to retire, I was. I couldn't get this idea out of my mind that I'm a protector. I was also fearful that I would lose my identity and. Which brought me into the counter sex trafficking space. I wanted to be around the men and women that I had spent most of my life with. The talent, the drive, the passion. Offer them something new, something that's relatively safe. We don't need to go to the furthest corners of danger in the world to affect change and protect people. People need our help right here in the United States. And when I started to look internal again, I felt a little bit guilty that I had been working so hard to fix things in areas of the world that really didn't want our help. And so much had fallen away with exploitation and abuse and all these other things that we confront on a daily basis now with the counter sex trafficking.
- [14:42]
Mick Hunt
That is actually where I wanted to go next. So it's as if we rehearsed this and you gave me the perfect segue slash layup to ask you a question. So, you know, you've. You've gone from, or you transition from counterterrorism operations to leading Skull Games, which is the organization that you were just referencing. Talk to us about not the mission of why you started Skull Games, because I get that, and I think we, we understand that. But. But talk to us more about what the average everyday person doesn't recognize with human trafficking in the United States and what Skull Games is doing to disrupt and create war there.
- [15:25]
Jeff Teagues
So let me first answer a question you didn't ask and then get to the one that you did ask. So this is a logical extension of this idea that a, I'm a protector and B Much has been given, right? Like, I just. I understand the enemy. You know, there's one of the. One of my favorite quotes of all time is from Sun Tzu where he says, if you understand yourself and you understand your enemy, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles, of a thousand battles. However it is, then it's pithy. And you'll see this above. You know executives, you know, off offices and their desks. You know what I mean? But it's loaded. Knowing yourself is very, very difficult. And then even. Even knowing yourself as you change and adapt. I am. I am the same guy I was when I was 15 years old, but I'm also not so knowing yourself is a constant pursuit. Knowing your enemy is something that I think I excelled on in the military. I knew Al Qaeda, I knew isis. I knew my enemy. I knew how they thought. I knew how they fought. I knew what they were going to do.
- [16:36]
Mick Hunt
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- [19:08]
Jeff Teagues
and it allows you to insert yourself into their game and when. So my hypothesis as I was beginning to transition out of the military was, hey, are these things that I've learned studying just bad people, particularly terrorist insurgents. But again, when you talk about a terrorist and an insurgent, it's all wrapped up into everything. They're kidnappers, they're exploiters, they're human traffickers, they're drug traffickers, they're weapons traffickers. You know, there's, there's all sorts of it. There's, there's media emirs that run all these things. So there's, there's aspects of crime that I think has a, has a constant to it. So I thought, I've spent the better part of my life understanding my enemy and finding ways to interject ourselves into their game and beating them at their own game. How much of that is transferable into a trafficker or a pimp? The first thing was a pimp. There's a lot out there about, about pimps. What, what is pimping? There's books out there, how to, how to be a pimp, you know, how to, how to be a successful pimp. So the first question was, are pimping and trafficking the same? Are pimps and traffickers the same answer is yes. Evil people do evil things and there's patterns and processes that they use. So as I thought, maybe 40, 50, 60% of what I learned in the military would be applicable towards this crime category. It's a hundred percent. So that was again just an extension of this recognition of what you poured into me as an American citizen, what you expected me to excel at. You spent a lot of time and energy developing me as a special operations soldier, and it's still my requirement and duty to give back. So that's that kind of bookend on that one. Going back to what you're saying, I don't think people fully appreciate how vast and deep this level of evil is in the United States. And the thing that's fascinating to me about trafficking or this sexual exploitation is it's based upon innate qualities. So you know, when we go through life, I like to point out to the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, where first you have, you have to have security, you have to feel safe, you have to have a place to eat, you have to have a place to sleep. But then we're all very rapidly, once those are provided and there are people that are still in that space. But we look for love and we're looking for self esteem. And even as you progress into your teen years, that's where we're at. There's a vulnerability there because you are beginning to separate yourself from your parents. Otherwise we'd all still live in the basement, right? There's a, there is a built in tension with, with parents. There's a built in identity, in independence that comes with maturation, you know, in adolescence. And there's that pursuit to find somebody else who, who provides you that self worth and provides you that self esteem and starts to show you love. That's design. That's God's design. That's, that's, that's the, our, our bio, our biomechanical design. You know what I mean? That's the way humans are built and it's a beautiful thing, but in all of that is space for exploitation. And the way that these guys wait to manipulate, it's, it's fascinating to watch. They're incredibly good at it. There's a million ways I can liken it, you know, and one of the ways I like it because it's very, very simplified is Ira. I live here in, in, in Oregon and I run the trails and there are mountain lions out there all the time. I don't see them. They're out there and they don't let themselves be seen. And when they are seen, it's because they have identified something that was vulnerable, something that they think they could attack. You know, a lion on the savannah. When the, when the lion attacks a herd of pick an animal antelope, he doesn't go for the leader, he doesn't even go for the mid pack. He identifies the weakness. He can smell it, he can sense it. And we all have weaknesses, we all have vulnerabilities. And sometimes it's passing, sometimes it's a season, you know, it's a season of depression, it's a season of alcohol abuse, it's a season of confusion. Sometimes those Windows open and close. But these predators are remarkable at identifying when that season is ripe and what levers they need to pull. So I think folks, they don't need to be afraid. And there is no magic panacea on how to keep them out of your house. They're in your house. If your children are on social media, they're there, they're on all the kids games, they're already there. Talking with your children, it's very hard to stop. The more difficult thing is building a level of self confidence and helping your children feel and understand and recognize that they're seen and heard and valued and they don't have to look at that from an external point of view. I like to say that a believer who trusts God and believes in Jesus has that built in. Yeah, but we know it isn't that simple. It's not a magic pill. We still go through these seasons of doubt and vulnerability. So again, just, again, a very long answer to a very simple question. Parents, caregivers, teachers, they need to understand and recognize what these vulnerabilities are in these, in these children. We have them as adults and they need to find ways to build hedges around these kids when they're vulnerable, where they get to that point where they're beyond and the, the prime hunting areas are 13, 14, 15 years old. You know, that's, that's when these kids are being, are almost at their most vulnerable or they're, they're most malleable. Once a young person is 19, 20, 21, 22, it becomes less and less likely that these predators are going to be able to worm their way in and be successful. So again, there really is only a 10 year period, 13 to 23, 12 to 22, whatever it is, where I think parents and caregivers need to be hyper aware that the risks are high.
- [25:44]
Mick Hunt
You know, and Jeff, that, that's making me think a little bit because you said, you know, if your kids are on social media, the predators are there or the enemy is there. If they're on apps and games, the enemy is there. And I know one of the things that Skull Games is leading the mark on is innovation and technology. Can you talk to us about how Skull Games are using technology to help do the job and the roles that you all do to impact that space?
- [26:18]
Jeff Teagues
Yes. Thank you. So one thing I'd like to, I'd like to just bind when we talk about this because this crime is huge, right. And what we just talked about is a hundred percent across the board. Every single human has vulnerability. You have It, I have it, every adult has it, every child has it. So we, we just need to be a little bit more safe where people can talk about those. Most of the time when I, when I talk about sex trafficking, that's what I spend most of my time on, is we need to be able to have a safe space where we can talk about what's troubling us. We can talk about what our vulnerabilities are. You know, so that, that aside, that's the giant iceberg, right? So what, what Skull Games does very, very specifically is we hunt escort ads to identify who the girls are that are being sold and who the traffickers are that are selling those girls. So what it's, I mean, I can't even tell you how big the iceberg is under the water. It's, it's just a tiny piece, but it will keep us busy until we all retire again, you know. So what I mean by that is a lot of things have to happen under the surface that we don't see initially. What we see is a woman or a girl. Again, there are boys and men that are being sold. It isn't a huge market, right? There's a bell curve and we are, we're hunting the center of the bell curve. What is, what is the product that is most likely being sold? Who is the, the most likely profile of the buyer? That's where we, where we hunt a majority of our time. So there's a human being, usually a woman or young girl, for sale online. It's an escort site. They're accessible all over the world. I say this very often, it's as easy as ordering a pizza. You go to that escort site, you type in your city that you're at, the town that you're at, where you want this girl delivered. It's basically a drop down menu of what it is you're looking for. Do I want a blonde? Do I want a brunette? Do I want this? Do I want that? And now you reach out and you communicate to this victim. Now this victim is not who you're communicating with. That's the fantasy. You see a picture of a girl, you communicate to her. You start negotiating a price. You start negotiating a sex act. You think that's, you're already getting excited, right? This is, this is, you know, these are two Americans. This is a woman selling her body. I'm a man who wants to rent her body. God bless America. You know, they don't realize there's the in between, there's the pimp, there's the Trafficker. He's who you're speaking with. So that's where we start. And on these escort sites there are millions and millions of ads. So if we were going to work in any city, the first thing we do is we look at the current ads that are happening in that city and then we look for indicators of trafficking, not just prostitution. So again, I say we're a counter sex trafficking organization, we're not counter prostitution, I'm against prostitution. But it's such a vast problem. We are looking for the worst of the worst, right? So if a girl is for sale online, there are certain indicators, emojis, the way the photos are taken, different indicators in the ad, very, very simple things where you start running the phone number, you start running the email address because there, this has to be a contact, right? This isn't anonymous, this is a, this is an exchange. So there's always a start point. Now sometimes that start point is a phone number. That's a, that's a voiceover IP and it's very hard to get around. But as we're looking at these indicators, so the first thing we'll do is look at an escort site and we will bend up, looks like indicators of trafficking. Indicators of trafficking. So let's say we look at 300 cases in the city, 300 ads in a city, maybe only 50 of them will have indicators of trafficking, right? So Those are the 50 that we focus on. It's kind of like triage. Even as I tell you this, it's sad to me because it's kind of like triage on the battlefield. Those other 250 women, we're just lean that we're leaving them laying on the battlefield bleeding. But those 50 that we have, we have evidence that can lead to probable cause that a cop can now take action. So we don't, you know that. So that's how we immediately do it. Are there other evidence of trafficking? And then the real magic to what we do is open source intelligence. So start with that ad, which is public. It's an ad for a girl. And once you start dipping behind that ad, you start running technology and tools on recognition of the photo, maybe the room, the phone number, anything that you can syntax of the way the ad is written. There's all sorts of complexity in, in, in building a case to figure out who's running this girl, who's the person of interest that's controlling this victim. And we have various levels of confirmation. You know, one of the easiest ones for us, Mick, is here's a girl she's advertised. Advertised for sale. Here's her phone number. She says she gives you the cash app number to, you know, how you. How you can pay her. You run that cash app number and it comes up to some dude. Well, that's an easy one, right? You're paying this woman to have sex, but the money is going to a third party, you know, so that's, That's. That's an easy thread to start to unravel, right? So that's what we're trying to look for. If it's a voiceover IP or there's a level of complexity, that's where it comes to the talent of our OSINT pool, our task force, who are some of the best in the world at continuing through this analytical process, both instinctively and intuitively. And then the. And then the tech and the data that we. That we have access to to just find mistakes. And as you build out that case, what we're trying to figure out is the profile of that person of interest. And again, you look that guy up and he's. He's been arrested three times for pimping, or there's a warrant out for his arrest, or he's got domestic abuse charges that are already against them. Some of those are really easy cases, and those are the ones that get prioritized with the cops. They're able to go in, they're able to arrest that guy, they're able to offer this woman a path to freedom. So there are times where we stop at the poi, depending on what. What it is we're looking at, but most often, we continue to scour social media and find this story of this girl. And it's absolutely heartbreaking because you will see a young woman, and she's on the cheerleading team, or she's in the band, or she. She's. She rides horses or whatever it is she does. And you see her happy, and then she gets troubled, and then she starts to devolve, and you see her body change, you see her language change, you see her become sexualized. And those things are really hard to. To recognize and understand what's happening because. Because many of us are on that journey. We experiment with our sexuality, we experiment with our identity, and we come out of it on the other side. But there are, as oftentimes where this goes back to where we first discussed. That's where that lion in the savannah sees an opening. And it's heartbreaking to see these healthy young girls now end up where they are, being sold and abused and raped. And I wish People would recognize it. We call them prostitutes, we call them escorts. They're rape victims. They're being forced to have sex with men against their will. And I, I think another piece that people don't recognize and understand is what that lever is that the traffickers use is something of high value, relational value to that other girl. So a pimp will have a stable of five to six girls. That's, that's by design. It diversifies his product so he can have different. Different girls, size, shapes, colors, whatever, do different things. He can control it. You know, it's enough of his locus of control. Five or six girls. But most importantly, he builds a family with these girls. He builds a relationship. They call each other sister wives. They call him daddy. So he builds this relationship where they're in, They're. They're codependent on each other. You're the sister I never had. You're the daddy I never had. However, it works. So now when one of these girls is compelled to go out and conduct a sex act with a buyer, if she doesn't do what the trafficker wants her to do, he can beat one of those other girls. So, yes, there's a physical exploitation against the women, which most, most people get hardened to. Right. If you hit me enough again, there's plenty of people that are listening who have undergone child abuse, and at some point you just become inured to it.
- [35:25]
Mick Hunt
Yeah.
- [35:26]
Jeff Teagues
But now they start hitting something you love, a brother, a sister. So that is really the control that they have. That stable is very, very important to the control that the trafficker has. More often than not, also, they have children with the victim because that's another lever that they can hold. I always ask mothers, what would you do to protect your daughter? What would you do to protect your baby, son? And the answer is pretty much anything. And that is what the trafficker is counting on. So there is an insidious level of this crime that I think would surprise people if they wanted to really understand it. But it's also an economy. It's. We. We describe ourselves as countering commercial sex trafficking. Yeah, you know, I'm not in your home. I don't see what's happening with abuse. If there are closed systems where girls and children are getting passed around, it's very hard for us to see. Once it hits that commercial level, we're off and running.
- [36:28]
Mick Hunt
Amazing. You know, Jeff, we need. I'm going to call them heroes like you and your team to make an impact here. We really do. And that leads me to, you know, part of the reason we were going to talk today and I wanted to give you the floor before we got to the book, just so that the audience knows who Jeff Tiegs is, right. And the things that you've done. You have an amazing book. And when we talk about heroes, you get me with the title of the book. Like, the minute I saw the title, I was like, oh, gotta, gotta read this one. So where have all the heroes gone? So I see the book and then I get into the book and I was like, wow. This is why when I opened, I called Jeff one of the best storytellers you've ever come to know because you blend battlefield stories with biblical narrative and narration better than anything I've ever seen, man. So this is like true kudos to you. Which made this book like something that you can read from beginning to end and then also go back and take, take chapters, take take moments of chapters and apply them to your leadership, to your purpose. So you know, Jeff, with this book, where have all the heroes going? Walk us through the purpose of you saying, I'm going to write a book about this and this is how I'm going to tell these stories.
- [37:58]
Jeff Teagues
So I had the opportunity to be assigned to Jerusalem, Israel back in 2013-14, and that brought my faith life to another level.
- [38:12]
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- [39:18]
Jeff Teagues
And man, I I rec I I want to encourage anyone out there. If they haven't been to Israel, they they need to experience it. So there's an Old monk out there, name is Basil, Basil Pixner, who used to say, walking Israel is like having access to a fifth gospel. You know, it ties things together. So, once again, I had. I lived there on and off for close to two years, and I was able to walk these places, this terrain that I've read about, you know, and it's there. It's all right there. Some of it is a little bit inaccurate, some of it is incredibly accurate. So once again, as I walked this terrain, I felt a responsibility to share what it is that I had experienced or witnessed or studied. So it really started out as this book about. I think I started the name of There's Always More to the Story. So it was a. It was an homage to Paul Harvey. Remember Paul Harvey now, you know, the rest of the story. I used to love that as a kid. You know, I used to love it. I mean, just. What a brilliant storyteller. So it was an homage to Paul Harvey of, you know, there's always more to the story. So you've got the Bible story, but then with the soldier's perspective on it, there was. There was more that would. That would come to life. So it really started as this, you know, exposition about the things that I had studied, the things that I had learned, looking at them through a soldier's eyes. And then, interestingly, I went to a workshop, a writing workshop, and one of the guys in my. In my. On my table, his name was Tim, and he was an atheist. He was. He was a devout. A devout atheist, you know, but he was very. He was very kind and he was very open. And we were all talking about our ideas on books. And Tim said. He said, hey, man, I'm going to discount your book right out of hand because it's just not my thing. I'm not a Bible guy. I don't care about any of this. He said, but you know, what interests me is you. I'm sitting across this table and I'm talking to you, and I'd be interested to hear how what you're talking about, you've applied to your life, you know, So I. This pivot in my. In the book, I owe to an atheist who explained to me very clearly, I want to hear you. I want to hear where you're not just talking the talk, but where you've applied these things to your life. So the book that you. That we have now really became a new version of these biblical stories. The. More to the story of that biblical story, which I think is fascinating in of itself. And then Almost a memoir or testimony of how I apply those things through different hardships in my life. And then it continued to evolve, Mick, and it became almost cathartic to be able to share some of these things, you know, and it's a tough line because deservedly, so much of what we do in Special ops and, you know, especially in Delta Force, it's not meant to be shared, right? So it's this fine line between sharing enough of the intent and the meaning behind the story with. With the detail that keeps it interesting. So it became this, what it is today and that. And once I really recognized that, I was writing this book to my two sons. You know, the avatar was my two sons, Aaron and Jonah. You know, they were both in their early 20s at the time. Believers, lovers of God, lovers of Jesus, but a little bit bored. You know, they lived in Israel with us. You know, they walked the land. And Western Christianity has its own style and its own flavor, you know, for good and bad. And I was just trying to encourage and inspire young men to just take. Take another look. Take. Take another look. That's a little bit adventurous on what God is trying to tell us. And again, to give way the story. Where have all the heroes gone? They're right here. They're everywhere. My sons are heroes to me, my wife, everyone. You know, I'm the hero by the standards that we talk about. I was a soldier, and I did this, and I have these awards. But my wife and my two sons are absolute heroes. And it's because they just get up every day and they do what they do with honesty and integrity. So we're often looking for heroes in the wrong place. Because you can run fast or you can jump high, or you can punch someone really hard in the face doesn't necessarily make you a hero. You can be heroic, but I wish we were telling more stories of these heroes among us. And lastly, that every person on this planet and I speak, you know, very more intentionally to young men, but this includes women. When you look in that mirror, there's a hero there wanting to come out. Everybody has the potentiality to be a hero, but it doesn't have to be running into a burning building. It comes with commitment. It comes with integrity. It comes with selfless service. All these things that so many people are doing. And I'll finally roll that in with, you know, what we have at Skull Games with our task force. The men and women that work on our task force, they're all heroes to me. I mean, they just are selfless in their commitment to, to helping a young woman that they will likely never meet. You know, they will never encounter her. They will, they, they most likely will never really see the justice that that trafficker deserves because it's such a long flash to bang. So the heroes are among us. I think we need to recognize them more. And then again, there's one inside of you trying to get out.
- [45:18]
Mick Hunt
Jeff, bro, that was a mic drop right there. I don't, I don't even need to summarize that or add to it. I mean, you're, you're exactly right. There's a hero waiting to come out of all of us. Jeff, where can people get this book?
- [45:33]
Jeff Teagues
So it's, it's on Amazon. Where the here, where have all the heroes gone? A pilgrimage through the Bible, the battlefield and back home again. So again, that little piece after, after the main title sums up what it is. I really appreciate. So it's on Amazon. I. My website website, jeffteagues book.com or jeffteaguesbooks.com you can find it there as well. I really appreciate what you, what you had to say about, about that book. And it was, it was a huge experiment, right? Like I, I know what I like, I know what keeps me reading. And I, and I was really concerned that it would jump around too much and people would get lost and I was like, I'm just gonna go for, for it. So two, two things came out of that make that were, that were unintended. Well, that was intentional. I was hoping it would grab people's attention. My boys read it and I, I have to fight back tears to talk about this and, and both my boys, they just know me better and they know why I was gone. You know, a three year old boy, a four year old boy, they don't, they don't know why. Again, this goes back to that question we were talking about. Why does dad choose to leave us over and over and over. Are we not important to him?
- [46:43]
Mick Hunt
Right?
- [46:43]
Jeff Teagues
You know, does he not? I don't. You know, again, these aren't, these aren't things that are heavy on my son's minds. They're incredibly healthy young men. But, but, but of course it's, it's just natural and there is a level of closure there and recognition and understanding on, on what I was doing, why I was doing it, why it was important and why, even though they hadn't volunteered to be part of it, they were, and I'm appreciative of it. So I'm working on a whole new series. I've got a Book at the editor. So it's a very, very similar style of, of where have all the Heroes Gone? I don't have a title for it right now. It's. I'm calling it Words Create Worlds. Eden. So I'm going to talk about Eden and Sinai and Galilee and Jerusalem, and, and the premise is that there are 10 words that God has been, has been using to inspire, create, guide us. That is just a constant through time. And I, I guess I'll share the. I guess I'll share the premise. I'll share the premise with you because I think I loaded a lot into that first book, you know, so as I've been writing this second one, I came to this conclusion just a few months ago. Oh, hey, man, these are four different books. Just say this in this book. Say this in this book, you know, and my. The hypothesis or the thought experiment that I have in this, in this second book that hopefully is coming out in the next couple months is the ten words that God used at creation and what were our roles and responsibilities? So one of the big ones that I say that I, that I ask people is what was the first sin? So when, you know, the garden story, what actually was the first sin? What do you think? And there's no right or wrong answer. This is just a thought experiment.
- [48:35]
Mick Hunt
I mean, I would go to what everyone thinks, right? When God said, don't bite the apple.
- [48:40]
Jeff Teagues
Yeah, yeah. So disobedience, right? You know, so people have a lot. People, the people. People talk about pride. Pride. Pride is definitely a sin. Doubt. I don't think doubt is a sin. You know, again, we could, we could, we could. Again, these are, these are good for intellectual discussions. I believe Jesus had doubts, right? Jesus didn't have pride. Jesus had doubts. Disobedience. No question. So then, but then here's my, here's my next question, Mick. Where was Adam when Eve was talking to the serpent and took a bite out of that apple? Where was Adam?
- [49:12]
Mick Hunt
I don't know.
- [49:13]
Jeff Teagues
He was standing right next to her. So this is, this is like my first book that you read. You. You've read that a hundred times, but it just, there's only so much we, we process, right? No, it says you'll. When we finish this discussion, you'll go back and you'll look at Genesis and you'll. And you'll see Adam was right next to her. So this thought experiment that I'm creating here for folks, for young men to ponder is I believe the first sin was Adam's apathy. I believe the first sin was Adam not protecting his wife. She was the crown jewel of creation. When God created woman, he was like, nailed it. We're done.
- [49:56]
Mick Hunt
Right?
- [49:57]
Jeff Teagues
Creates life. She is the partner, the helper of Adam, and his one job is to protect her. And he failed.
- [50:10]
Mick Hunt
Yeah.
- [50:11]
Jeff Teagues
So we're pointing all the way back again. Even if this, even if someone believes this is myth, fine. There's a reason we have myth. There's a reason we have legend. And that story is telling us something that resonates almost stronger today than it ever has. Men, who are you protecting? Who are you living for? We all have a duty. And one last thing, again, because you, You've read my book. I like this play on different concepts and ideas with the Hebrew and the. The snake, the serpent. And people are. I'll murder it. Nahish, I think it's is the Hebrew term is a serpent and it means a slithery snake. But it also means this concept of deception and lies. And you see that throughout the Bible and through this Bible story. But we also see the serpent and the devil that has embodied the serpent change to something else called Tamim Tanin, which is a dragon. So I don't know if this creature came to Eve looking like a snake or if this creature came to Eve looking like a dragon.
- [51:35]
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- [51:36]
Jeff Teagues
But my gut tells me it looked like a dragon and it was a dragon, a serpent like dragon. And the Hebrew Bible calls it a serpent because that was the. The point of it was deception. The point of it was not fear and chaos, which. Which is what's embodied with this tannin dragon. So again now we go back to this thought experiment of a man stood next to his wife as she was approached by a dragon. A dragon. And he did nothing. And we have been trying to right that wrong ever since. So that's the next book, Sinai, I'll share again. It's an extension of all of that. But all of this sits heavily upon just that journey and that work of that first book, which was just the first of many.
- [52:37]
Mick Hunt
I'm ready for the second book, Jeff. Like, dude, I want the manuscript. I can't wait for, for, for full print. Like, that is going to be a amazing topic in my family. Yeah, like I'm, I'm. When we are finished here, I'm immediately calling my mom. So my mom is a. As a minister. So we're gonna have some questions. I'm gonna ask her some questions. Jeff, bro, like, I needed this one today.
- [53:07]
Jeff Teagues
Well, thanks, Mick. And I tell you what, what, what I appreciate about it is I'm blissfully ignorant, right? Like, I'm not a theologian, I'm not a pastor. I don't owe. I don't know anybody other than the best I can do. And as accurate as I can be, you know, and I don't mean to kind of have this disclaimer of. It's just a thought experiment because I. I've spent hours and days with God in this process, and he. He guides me and he shows me things, and I might not have all the answers, but again, what I discussed to you, just. Just discussed it, discussed with you might not be 100% accurate, but you feel it.
- [53:51]
Mick Hunt
Yeah.
- [53:52]
Jeff Teagues
You feel the truth. You feel like, oh, how have we missed this? How have we missed that? A man, the man Adam, failed to safeguard the most important thing that God had ever created.
- [54:12]
Mick Hunt
Yeah, you.
- [54:13]
Jeff Teagues
You feel it in your gut. So that's what I'm getting at. I'm happy that I'm just a dude, right? I'm just a dude. I'm just a sojourner. I'm out there studying and praying and reading. But when I hit something that feels like a knife, a knife wound, I want to share that. And I hope it inspires young men to get off the couch and go find your dragon, because there's one out there, no matter what it looks like. Many times it looks like a slithery snake. You know, it looks like a dm, Looks like a job, you know, looks like a, you know, you know, tax evasion. It looks like a lot of things. Rarely does it look like a roaring dragon. Yeah, but it's a dragon. And men were on. Are on this earth to slay dragons.
- [54:59]
Mick Hunt
Let's go, Jeff Teagues. Let's go. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been Jeff Teagues. This has been the Jeff Teagues hour. Like, I needed this. This was awesome. I feel like we've got a follow up conversation in here, Jeff. Love it. You know, as we get closer to book two, let's definitely come on again. But I'd love to, man. Like, we could just. We'll talk offline. Jeff, I just had a vision. Like, there's something we can do right here, bro.
- [55:27]
Jeff Teagues
Let's do it. Love it, Mick. Thank you for having me.
- [55:30]
Mick Hunt
Thank you for being here. To everybody that's watching or listening, I'm gonna have links to all things Jeff Teagues, so you can definitely check out the things that he's doing. Definitely. Go get the book, Jeff. Has been an honor, brother. It has been an honor. Me too.
- [55:45]
Jeff Teagues
Great meeting you, Mick. More to do, brother.
- [55:48]
Mick Hunt
Absolutely.
- [55:49]
Jeff Teagues
To all the viewers and listen together.
- [55:51]
Mick Hunt
Let's go slay them. To all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it and go slay dragons. Let's go. That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged. If this episode moved you, and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen, share it with someone who needs that spark and leave a review so more people can follow on there. Because I'm Rudy Rush and until next time, stay driven, stay focused, and stay unplugged.
- [56:29]
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- [57:01]
Jeff Teagues
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- [57:21]
Jeff Teagues
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- [57:27]
Mick Hunt
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