← Mick Unplugged
Mick Unplugged
Sergeant James Booker on Integrity, Prison Politics, and Leading with Character
00:41:46
Loading summary
Transcript105 lines
- [00:01]
James Booker
You got a guy out there, a young lady out there that has probably gone through something similar like you have. And because they heard your story, it gives them hope, it gives them direction. Because a lot of people don't know which way to go or which way to turn in order to put themselves in a position to even start the fight.
- [00:21]
Mick
Welcome to Mick Unplugged, the number one podcast for self improvement, leadership and relentless growth. No fluff, no filters, just hard hitting truths, unstoppable strategies, and the mindset shifts that separate the best from the rest. Ready to break limits? Let's go.
- [00:48]
Host
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of MC Unplugged. And today we're going deep into a story and a path of legacy. We're talking to a former police sergeant who stood alongside my former guest, Mr. Raymond Hicks, as a decorated Broward county sheriff who faced wrongful accusations after exposing internal corruption. Together, they navigated the challenges of integrity with law enforcement, shedding light on systemic issues. Their journey underscores the complexities of upholding justice within the justice system. Please join me in welcoming the courageous, the steadfast, and the principled Mr. James Booker. Sergeant Booker, how are you doing today, sir?
- [01:31]
James Booker
I'm fine, sir. How are you?
- [01:33]
Host
I am great. I am honored. Now, I was telling you offline, like, you're someone that I look up to and respect. I have family. Shout out to my cousin, Detective Torrance Jackson, in the Pickens county law enforcement. I have family. That's law enforcement, man. So law enforcement is something that I've always held dear to my heart. My grandfather was the first black sheriff in our hometown. And so we've always had a tradition within our family of upholding the blue to the highest standard, the highest regard. That also doesn't mean that there aren't issues, Right? And those issues, we're not pointing them out per se, but just like anything in the school system, there's issues. In the government, there's issues, right? Like in people's households, there's issues. So this isn't definitely not an attack on anything law enforcement, but I just wanted to tell you face to face, man. Just honored to know you. Honored to be a part of the legacy that you've created and just would love to hear a little bit about your background. And then we're going to go into the things that you've done, go into some specific situations and just let you shed light where you want to shed light, brother.
- [02:45]
James Booker
Okay, sounds good.
- [02:47]
Host
Awesome. Awesome. So let's talk about Sergeant James Booker, man. Like where'd you grow up? Like, where did this yearning to go into law enforcement start?
- [02:55]
James Booker
Well, I grew up in Pensacola, Florida. I as well come from a long back law enforcement background. My mother, she was in law enforcement. She retired as a major with the Skamby County Sheriff's Department. My sister, she retired as a lieutenant, with the exception Scammer County Sheriff's Department. And my older brother, he worked for atf and he also worked with the as an investigator for the State's Attorney's office in Pensacola as well. So that kind of got my path going because once I left the Marine Corps, you know, I wanted to stay in service. I wanted to do a part in service. I always liked to serve. That was my whole thing. And then coming from that background, seeing it as I was a young child, I said that was something that I felt, you know, I could transition into, and that was something I felt I would be good at. So when I got out the service, I looked for an opportunity to get into law enforcement. So I actually kind of a short story, I was. Didn't know where I was going. I was on my way to Miami because I heard a lot of things was progressive for African Americans in Miami. So I said, well, you know what? I loaded up my car after three months of being out of service, didn't know where I was going, didn't have any family. I jumped in my car and I headed south. So I actually stopped in Gainesville, Florida, and I was at this restaurant called Wax Swags, and it was a breakfast place. So I'm sitting there and I'm gonna age myself for a second. I'm reading the newspaper. So in the newspaper they said they was hiring for correction officers. So I'm like, okay, you know what, Let me look into this. Not knowing that the place I applied for was Florida State Prison. And when I went and I did the application, they hired me the same day. Not knowing that they was quite desperate for staff, quite desperate for someone with a background coming from the military that they were looking for. So that started my journey into the correctional process. And that was back in 1983. So that's when I started. So I stayed there, transitioned from Florida State Privilege into Gainesville Road Prison, and then from Gainesville Road Prison, I then transferred into the Broward County Sheriff's Department. And I got to the Broward County Sheriff's Department in 1986, I believe. 1986. Well, I retired recently. I've been retired now 12 years now, this September.
- [05:26]
Host
All right, well, one appreciate everything you've done two. Congratulations on the retirement. 12 years. Right. That's powerful in and of itself. I love, man, like, I'm fortunate I've never been to prison, hopefully never go to prison.
- [05:41]
James Booker
Right.
- [05:41]
Host
But I've heard stories. What's like a prison story that you've witnessed that the average person wouldn't even believe or could even comprehend.
- [05:51]
James Booker
Well, I love to tell this thing. Most people think in Florida that there's like, you know, multitude of prisons. It's only one prison in the state of Florida. It's only one, and that's Florida State Prison. That is the only building that bears the name prison, which is Florida State Prison. Everything else is a correctional facility or as a work camp or something of that nature. Well, I actually worked at the only prison in the state of Florida.
- [06:22]
Host
Wow.
- [06:22]
James Booker
At that prison, it was like the very, very hardcore. And I'm like, again, I'm gonna age myself. These are guys that, as we say, stood on business. These guys, yeah, they, they were not snitches. These guys would kill you at the drop of a hat. You know, they were meant something. They, they truly lived by code, and their code was serious. And being a young man coming out of the military and going into such a place and coming from a disciplined place, believe it or not, that place has real discipline within the prison community. And I don't think a lot of people understand that you can't do a lot of things because you're an inmate. You can't do certain things like you want to do unless you get permission. Yeah, you. If a guy want to stab a guy, he got to get permission. He just can't go stab this guy. It doesn't work like that. I think people, when they see tv, they think, oh, this guy, you know, you see a movie and a guy stabbed the guy. No, it's not like that. It's politics. It's big politics. And if you're from a certain part of Florida, then you, you're basically in that bus with those guys from, from Miami. Are you in part of central Florida or wherever you are? And if you're a guy coming in from another state, you got to pick a bus. And it's, it's. It's totally different. And I think people don't really know the dynamics that goes on there, because if you think about it, you got some of the most ruthless guys that you would ever know. Every guy you see on channel 6, 7 and 5, on the 6 o'clock news that did a heinous crime, most of them ended up there. And they all in one place. Just think about that for a minute. You got a lot of predators, a lot of psychopaths, you got a lot of mental health. You got all this in one place. So you got to have order in the order. They basically set the tone for what the order would be. And I know that may not sound wow, right, but honestly, they basically ran the prisons. We just managed it. They ran it just.
- [08:29]
Host
80S Miami alone probably populated three fourths of the prison.
- [08:36]
James Booker
Absolutely. Because the cocaine thing blew up during the early 80s. It was like a wildfire. The prisons actually couldn't handle it. And I tell you another thing too, same thing. When AIDS came about, the prison system wasn't ready for it.
- [08:53]
Host
It was.
- [08:53]
James Booker
And it blew up. And I mean, it blew up. And that's a dynamic that you don't even think about, that guys coming in and they. And they're sick and they get aids and it's like, okay, how do you deal with this? Because it was like, it was like crack cocaine. It took off like a wildfire, you know, but. And I tell you quick little story. When I first got there and in Florida State Prison, I was gamma age myself. I'm young. Most of the guys who work there, these guys were bricklayers, they were mechanics, these guys had jobs, they were older men. So I'm basically a kid when I walked in there.
- [09:28]
Host
Yeah.
- [09:29]
James Booker
And so it was, it was one of those situations where when you're coming in, being a young guy, it was very few of us, you know, we. We were looked down upon because it's like, okay, you here to take our job? No, I'm here to work, you know, So a lot of the older guys, they were very threatened by younger guys coming in because we could relate to the inmate population because we weren't much older, if we were not the same age than most of the guys who was incarcerated. So it wasn't that adversarial thing where we were in conflict with them because we listened to the same music, we knew the same people. Meaning when, I mean, knew the same people. Like people who were like in the music industry, that type of thing. We knew. So in a lot of the older guys, they were disconnected and all they knew was pounding ground. You know, guys like, like dogs treat them like, you know, mess, you know, pound on them if they had the opportunity. So, you know, a lot of that went on, you know, because they couldn't relate to these guys. It was, it was a different environment.
- [10:32]
Jamie Lynn Sigler
Hey, all, I'm Jamie Lynn Sigler, a mom, actor and advocate. I know how overwhelming it can be trying to decide which troops treatment is right for you. I've been there. But you should know you're not alone. You can do this. Start with some research, talk to the community, and most importantly, don't be afraid to ask your doctor questions. You might find results that speak for themselves. That's how I landed on qysimta. Ask your doctor if Qsimta ofatumumab could be right for you. You can check out the details@qysimta.com hey, what's up?
- [11:03]
Alfredas
This is Alfredas with the Urban One Podcast Network. Let me introduce you to today's sponsor, Chamberlain University. There's a pattern among successful people in any industry. They surround themselves with the right support. And in healthcare, that support starts at Chamberlain University. For over 130 years, Chamberlain has been helping nurses and healthcare professionals fulfill their calling. It's the largest nursing school in the country, offering flexible learning, real mentorship, and a network of over 160,000 professionals. Because progress isn't just about working harder. It's about having the right people in your corner. You got this, and Chamberlain has got you. Get started at Chamberlain. Edu ChamberlainUniversity belong to something greater Certified to operate by Chev Sometimes we lose.
- [11:47]
Nationwide
Sometimes we win Sometimes we try to fit it all in Sometimes we don't know what's in store Sometimes we find what we're looking for Sometimes we're rolling easy and free Sometimes one and one makes three so much to love along this ride that's why Nationwide is on your side.
- [12:12]
Host
Nationwide Mutual Insurance company and affiliates Columbus, Ohio. So you said something, man. And I want to elaborate on. So you said something again of movies, Right. But like you said, the inmates pretty much ran the prison. Like, can you give us an example? Obviously not naming names or anything like that, but can you give an example of what you mean by the inmates were running the show?
- [12:36]
James Booker
Well, like I said, we won't name any names, but, like, this particular fellow happened to be out of Miami, and this guy was in there, if I recall, he was in there for like a triple murder. And this guy had huge hands, big hands. And what they did when I was working there is guys, if you had a beef with a guy, we would actually have boxing where guys could actually box. Well, this guy was like the champ of the. Right. He was the champ of the prison.
- [13:06]
Host
Yeah.
- [13:07]
James Booker
So when this guy went to. When he went to take a shower, he went with a entourage of people to take a shower. I mean, this guy was Like a. Like a kingpin, basically. In prison, when he called, he called the shots. He was a shot caller, you know, and if it was food, if it was drugs, if it was hooch, whatever moved through that, through that bus, it had to go through him in order to move, okay? And, I mean, and us working there, we knew who was who. But let's actually. This question. If he can't be there, where we. Where would we send him? That was the worst of the worst. It's not like we can say, okay, we're going to send you to another camp. No, this is it. There's no other place like this place, you know, and it's. I mean, that place is an amazing place. And I think you never see any documentaries on it. You never see telling stories about it. You never see cameras there. Because the thing is, society really doesn't want to know. There's no rapes, more assaults, more murders that happen at that prison than all of Bradford county, which. Where the prison is located. It was assaults there every single day, Every day. And. But it was never reported. Nothing ever got to the newspaper. Nobody never knew about the assaults, you know, because basically nobody really wanted to know, Right? Nobody really wanted to know.
- [14:27]
Host
I mean, what else are you going to do? They're already there.
- [14:32]
James Booker
So there was no. At that time, there was no reporting system to say, okay, well, we had, you know, 80 assaults this month. Somebody reported it. It was just assaults.
- [14:42]
Host
Yeah.
- [14:42]
James Booker
You know, and we clean it up and we go into the next day, you know, but it was. It was a serious environment, you know, Very serious. Yeah, but they ran. They. Like I said, they ran everything. I mean, you know, and the thing was, like, certain officers, like, if they say, hey, I don't want this guy working here, we couldn't put him down there. And it's not because they're telling us what to do, but we need to protect this person because we don't want him getting killed. Because I'll tell you this, I'll never forget this story, man. When I. When I was working there, we had this officer. He was coming on shift. Prior to him coming on shift, it was visitation day, where back then an inmate only got one visit per month, so they had to shave. Well, you know, black men, they. They suffer from shaving problems. They get. They get. They get. Their face gets swollen. So this guy said, hey, I can't shave, so if you don't shave, you can't have your visit, okay? So he said, the next officer come down here, I'm gonna kill him. We changed shifts. The officer came down. Not disinformation, wasn't passed on. Yeah, he got killed. He got killed that day.
- [15:59]
Host
Wow.
- [16:00]
James Booker
Wife and two kids. I'll never forget it. Wow. I never forget it. You know, I mean, there's some stories, man. And I'll never forget this story. When I first started working them, it was Christmas Eve night. These twin mates had the argument from back in 1978. They got a vent system now. Remind you, I told you, I didn't start working there too, until 83.
- [16:23]
Host
Right. Okay, five year. Five year build up.
- [16:26]
James Booker
Yes. And what they would do is they got this thing where they talk through the fence, where you can be on a whole separate area. But the vents, they travel. So I can have a conversation with you and not even know you, and we can get a beef going because there's nothing else to do but have a beef, Right. So these two guys ended up getting housed together. Staff didn't know they had a beef. And this guy took a homemade knife that looked like a sword, and he ran it through this guy on Christmas Eve night. That is the first time I ever seen someone get killed in prison. Blood flew out of him like it was water. I'd never seen anything like that. Now you're talking about something look like a movie. It you want to see how fast blood goes out the human body hit the right organ and see how much blood come out of it. He killed right there on Christmas Eve night. I'll never forget it. That was my awakening to the prison system. And it was something to see because it was like, man, he just killed this guy like it was nothing, you know, and he. He was never getting out anyway.
- [17:37]
Host
Right. Where else is he going?
- [17:39]
James Booker
Where else is he going, you know? So it's a lot of stories, man. I mean, I could load you up with stories that I saw, man, that things happened in that place, man, and it was just like. Just like business, normal business, you know, like it was nothing.
- [17:54]
Host
Yeah, I'm gonna wait till the documentary comes out. I don't want to know anymore. Till your documentary comes out, you told the world. So you leave there and you go then to Broward County, I'm assuming. Right. So what was the decision to leave prison to go to Broward County?
- [18:14]
James Booker
You know, the main factor was I wanted a better environment because at the time, I'm young and up in South Florida. Like I said from what I've gotten was, hey, man, that place is really progressive. So coming out of. And I don't know if you're familiar with the location of where Florida State Prison is, but it's in Bradford county, which is right outside of Gainesville. Yeah, well, it's. It's kind of. It's country, and so it's not a lot to do there for a young person. So the sheriff's department, Broward Sheriff's Department, was hiring, so I made the decision. I said, you know what? Let me put an application in. And. And. And obviously the pay was a whole lot better. And so I put in, I got selected, and I went down, I took the job. So that's how I ended up down in Broward County.
- [19:00]
Host
Awesome. Awesome. So when you said outside of Gainesville, there's a small little college and university there, we're not allowed to talk about here. Go heels and go, dogs. But for all my Bulldog fans, you know, the college I'm talking about in Gainesville, we're not allowed to talk about it, but. So you're at Broward, man. So what is it like there? Obviously, it's a different environment. Right. So walk us through a little bit of the first few years of Broward.
- [19:25]
James Booker
And what that's like, getting there. The Brown Sheriff's office was in a transition where they just built. Built a brand new facility. They were in need of a lot of people because. Because, like I said, because of cocaine and all those different things, everything was exploding. And the facilities were, you know, bigger facilities were needed for, you know, to accommodate, you know, the arrestees. So coming in there, I came in with a lot of young. Young people my age, and I also was there with some people that was a little bit older, but most of us are pretty much around the same age in diameter. But the good part was I had already had experience. So coming in from a prison system, coming into a jail facility was night and day. It was totally night and day where, you know, it was no discipline. It was no. Because these people were coming off the street. So they weren't, like, you know, acclimated to being incarcerated, I should say. You know, it's not like they were like, okay, you know what? I know what to do when I get here. Some of these people were new to the system. Some of these people have been previously, obviously, you know, rearrested, but it wasn't the kind of structure that you would have in prison. Everybody know we eat at this time in prison. Everybody know we go do this at this time. Things in jail is fluid because people don't stay. You know, they come and go. It's transit. They bond out, they go to prison or whatever the case may be, you know, so it was always overchanging, and that's something I had to get used to, because when I. When I was at prison, at the prison system, I knew I had guys that were never going home. You know, their people was coming and going. It was always interchanging, you know, but being in the jail system, it was quite different because you had a lot of laws that you had to learn, a lot of different rules you had to learn versus prison was basically set in 33, 8, which. That was the code that governed the prison at that particular time.
- [21:27]
Host
Amazing. So then you're there. How did you meet brother Hicks or. When was that?
- [21:33]
James Booker
I met. I met Raymond. I was his super. I was his supervisor, so. And. Oh, man, I can do nothing. I'm trying to think because that's. That's been so long ago, because, like I say, we were all young because I. I was. I made supervisor, like, the first two years I was down. Okay, Sergeant. And so Raymond worked under me, and I would say probably 87, 88. I'm thinking maybe the time frame that he was working for me in Raymond, like a lot of the young, Young guys who worked up under me. And at this particular time, now I'm becoming one of the older guys because I'm five, six years older than them. Yeah, I'm much older now, you know, so these guys, they will go out, they will party, then they call in sick for work. Give them the talking to. Okay? They're not getting to talking to me now. I got to give them some paperwork. So now my thing was, say, hey, press down hard third, copy yours. Take that one for yourself. And believe it or not, I wrote Raymond up. I disciplined him for calling in city. And that, believe it or not, brought us closer together because he came to me and said, you know what? I'm so glad you wrote me up, because you made me realize I have a family and I need this job. And that's how he and I became close, beyond the job, because I looked at him and I saw, you know, what this guy want to be here. Yeah. He understands what this means to have this job, you know, because his family was the most important thing, you know, and unfortunately, some of the young fellows that came along, they end up getting terminated because of the. Because they were. Because of the sick time. And he straightened that part of himself out, you know?
- [23:26]
Jamie Lynn Sigler
Hey, all. I'm Jamie Lynn Sigler, a mom, actor, and advocate. I know how overwhelming it can be trying to decide which treatment is right for you. I'VE been there. But you should know you're not alone. You can do this. Start with some research, talk to the community, and most importantly, don't be afraid to ask your doctor questions. You might find results that speak for themselves. That's how I landed on qysimta. Ask your doctor if qisimta ofatumumab could be right for you. You can check out the details@qysimta.com hey, what's up?
- [23:57]
Alfredas
This is Alfredas with the Urban One Podcast Network. Let me introduce you to today's sponsor, Chamberlain University. There's a pattern among successful people in any industry. They surround themselves with the right support, and in healthcare, that support starts at Chamberlain University. For over 130 years, Chamberlain has been helping nurses and healthcare professionals fulfill their calling. It's the largest nursing school in the country, offering flexible learning, real mentorship, and a network of over 160,000 professionals. Because progress isn't just about working harder. It's about having the right people in your corner. You got this, and Chamberlain has got you. Get started at Chamberlain. Edu ChamberlainUniversity belong to something greater Certified to operate by Chev Sometimes we lose.
- [24:41]
Nationwide
Sometimes we win Sometimes we try to fit it all in Sometimes we don't know what's in store Sometimes we find what we're looking for Sometimes we're rolling easy and free Sometimes one and one makes three so much to love along this ride that's why Nationwide is on your side.
- [25:06]
Host
Nationwide Mutual Insurance company and affiliates, Columbus, Ohio.
- [25:09]
James Booker
And Raymond was, man, let me tell you, Raymond, Raymond was the type of guy at the job. And you see the size of Raymond, right? Yeah, yeah, he's a massive guy. And back then, you know, it was guys in jail were. Were big guys because we had weights in the jails and at the time, and these guys work out. And then now that they've been working out, they want to test their strength or they want to test themselves, you know, because they feel like, okay, I've been working, I. I gotta see. I gotta put this to use. Let me see what I can do with staff. So a lot of times Raymond was called in because of his strength and his size, and especially when he worked for me. I won't call any names, but I had this particular inmate, he was disrespecting one of the females, and he was saying all kind of derogatory things to her, saying whatever he was saying to a vulgar, you know, it was really nasty stuff. So when I came back to work, she said, hey, Sarge, listen This guy, he's, he's been disrespecting me, you know, and why you've been off. I said, okay, no problem, let me talk to him. So I called Raymond down. I say, hey, I need you to come down, come down here to the unit. And then, because we always use strength and numbers, whenever you work in that environment, it's never one on one. And there's no situation where you really don't want to use force. That's the last thing you want to do. But you always want to show a use of force. And most guys will back down when they say that use of force or when they see that use of force. So this particular guy, he decided he wanted to go ahead and he wanted to put some work in. Okay, well, you know what, let's get at it. And subsequently, you know, it didn't go well. Yeah, it did not go well for him.
- [26:59]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:00]
James Booker
And Raymond was always that guy that listen, man, loyal, first to come in, always treating these guys fair, with respect because he could have hurt a lot of guys. He was a big guy.
- [27:15]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:16]
James Booker
But that wasn't his, that wasn't his demeanor. His demeanor was not to, to come there and be a bully. That wasn't who he was.
- [27:24]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:25]
James Booker
And, and the thing about it, Raymond was the type of guy, he would help these guys, he would talk to these guys because a lot of these guys he knew because he was from the community. I wasn't from the community, so I didn't know any of these guys. He knew these guys. He grew up with a lot of these guys, so he had their respect, you know. And then a lot of times I can call Raymond down, he could talk to a guy and kill the situation for me. I ain't even got to deal with it.
- [27:48]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:49]
James Booker
Talk to the guy because he had that, that relationship. And that's the thing about working at, in that environment that most people don't understand at that particular time. There was no taser, there was no shield, there was no mace, there was no stun gun. It was none of that. It was your verbal and it was hands on. And no one really wants to go hands on. Cause you know even if you win the fight, you still can get hurt and no one wants to get hurt, you know, so he was, he was, he was very, very, very good at his job, man. The man was good, you know, like, I don't know if he ever shared with you this particular lieutenant. They was going to throw this guy off a top tier Raymond. Only if I'm told You the story or not? But Raymond broke his index finger, saving his lieutenant from getting thrown over the rail.
- [28:39]
Host
Wow.
- [28:39]
James Booker
Yeah. That's the type of guy he was. You know what I mean? He was. He was that type of guy. And I mean, in any time that they had an issue with a person that they thought was going to be physical or be a problem, he was one of the guys that they called on. You know, they called on him. Yeah. And the guy was always there, man, you know, and his uniform was always impeccable. He made sure his dress was. Was where it needed to be. Because me being his supervisor, listen, that's something I enforced. If your uniform wasn't right, that is a problem for me. And at the time, we had a scoring system. If your uniform was not what it's supposed to be, I'm gonna give you the score you deserve. So whatever that score is, if you get a one, you got a one because you didn't maintain your uniform. That's why you got a one. And I set the example because I wanted you to see what it's supposed to look like. You know, look that way every day when you go to work. Cause people are respect. You don't have to know anything, but if you look the part, they'll respect you right off the. Off the bat. Cause you look professional.
- [29:41]
Host
Sergeant Booker, I appreciate that so much. Because there's a leadership lesson in that. Like I tell people all the time, like, there's a standard, and your standard has to be your standard. Because if not, you allow other people's opinions to say who you are. You allow outside influences to dictate the decisions that you make. And what I've heard from you in everything, from being able to write people up, from setting a standard, and not being afraid to tell someone, hey, you got a one. Because you don't look appropriate to me. Right? Like, for everybody that's listening, if you're a leader or if you're accepting a leadership role or you're thinking about going into a leadership position, the first thing I'm going to tell you, and you've heard Sergeant Booker talk about it a lot, is you've got to have a standard and you've got to set the tone as a leader. So again, I applaud you for that. Because it's the little things. And I have the saying, how you do small things is how you do all things. And I think for you, that's what you're saying, right? Like, if you're willing to come in not appropriate, then are you really going to do the job the right way. Can I trust you? If you're not going to wear a belt, right, and if your shoes aren't going to be polished the right way, am I going to trust you to make a decision out in the field? That's what I hear you saying.
- [30:57]
James Booker
Absolutely. And it's the other thing, just like doing the legal documents that we had to do when something occurred and we had to write what was called an event report, a medical report or something like that, I literally would take a red pen and I would write on the report because I needed you to understand that this report can't go in. You cannot, you know, spell words, misspelled words, because these documents are going to court. These documents are going, what? People are going to read these. And I always just say, when you put your name on something, you want that document to reflect who you are. So when people see me, they say, man, Sergeant Booker, man, that guy squared away. You know why? Because his reports reflect that he took the time to write it right? He took the time to make sure the words he used was spelled right. You know, and that's important, especially from a legal standpoint. But you want people to identify with you, saying, hey, he takes pride in his job. He goes beyond what needs to be done. When most people cut it short, you go beyond that. Read your policies, know your policies, know how to lead men and women, because it's important. Most people, they don't know how to lead men and women. The first thing they want to say is, hey, is my way or no way? No, that ain't how it goes. I'm going to show you what's wrong. I'm going to tell you how to fix it, and together, we both learn from it, and we're going to be better for it. But if I just. If I don't give you the right direction, guess what? We all lose. And then when you leave me and go to someone else, know what they going to say? Hey, man, Sergeant Book, I had this guy for a whole year, man. This guy can't write. He don't know how to do reports. He don't know who to call. That's important. That's a reflection of who I am. I can't let that be a reflection on me. That's negative. I can't do that.
- [32:42]
Host
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
- [32:44]
James Booker
I can't do that. You know?
- [32:46]
Host
Absolutely. So you just gave me a bunch of accolades for Raymond. Obviously, at this time, you hold him in. I'm gonna say the highest regard. Absolutely, yes, and then all of a sudden you as his supervisor, the person he reports to now you start getting. And I don't know how this works, so I'm gonna totally give you the floor. But I can assume that before he knows something is going down, his supervisor probably knows something is going down, or there's some accusations or maybe there's some things going on. What is it for you when you hear or you see, hey, the Raymond that you think you know isn't the Raymond that we are seeing out here or that we know.
- [33:29]
James Booker
Well, the thing is I don't, I don't really know what all led to Raymond's.
- [33:38]
Host
Accusations. Yep, yep.
- [33:40]
James Booker
But I tell you this because all that's in a whole separate, A whole separate departed department where they do the internal affairs investigations and then they bring charges or they, or whatever they do. So you really don't know what's going on until it happens. So it's not like you hear anything because it's all in a separate building and it's all internal with. Inside of that, that organization.
- [34:05]
Host
Yeah.
- [34:05]
James Booker
So when, when it, when the situation happened with Raymond, you know, like myself and many of us totally shocked because I know his character. I know the man, I know the person, you know. And Raymond became, you know, some. He became a friend just as well as a co worker and someone I supervised because like I told you earlier, I saw a lot in Raymond because Roman is the type of person in. And anybody who knows Raymond and will speak the truth on Raymond, if they know him personally, they know Raymond to give you the shirt off his back. That's the type of person Raymond is, has a big heart. You know, Raymond is a God fearing man. A lot of people don't even know that that demand is very spiritually bound. He is. And, and when he went through that situation, it was like I say alarm bells went off because I'm like, no, this ain't, this ain't, that ain't my guy, you know, and it was, it was like, no, that's not him. That's not him. You know, and so it was, it was quite shocking, you know, when it, when it came down. But no, no one, like I said, I didn't hear any whispers. And like I say, 99% of investigations like that, they go knowing it knows anything. You don't know anything.
- [35:12]
Host
Yeah, gotcha. Did you face any backlash post arrest?
- [35:20]
James Booker
No.
- [35:20]
Host
None.
- [35:21]
James Booker
No.
- [35:22]
Host
Good stuff. Good stuff. So you said, you know, you saw it. That's not the Raymond, you know, talk about, you know, as Raymond and the Family are going through it, right? Like, what's on Sergeant Booker's heart at that time.
- [35:38]
Jamie Lynn Sigler
Hey, all. I'm Jamie Lynn Sigler, a mom, actor, and advocate. I know how overwhelming it can be trying to decide which treatment is right for you. I've been there. But you should know you're not alone. You can do this. Start with some research, talk to the community, and most importantly, don't be afraid to ask your doctor questions. You might find results that speak for themselves. That's how I landed on qysimta. Ask your doctor if Qysimta ofatumumab could be right for you. You can check out the details@qysimta.com.
- [36:08]
Alfredas
Hey, what's up? This is Alphritas with the Urban One Podcast Network. Let me introduce you to today's sponsor, Chamberlain University. There's a pattern among successful people in any industry. They surround themselves with the right support. And in healthcare, that support starts at Chamberlain University. For over 130 years, Chamberlain has been helping nurses and healthcare professionals fulfill their calling. It's the largest nursing school in the country, offering flexible learning, real mentorship, and a network of over 160,000 professionals. Because progress isn't just about working harder. It's about having the right people in your corner. You got this, and Chamberlain has got you. Get started at Chamberlain. Edu ChamberlainUniversity belong to something greater. Certified to operate by Chev Sometimes we.
- [36:51]
Nationwide
Lose Sometimes we win Sometimes we try to fit it all in Sometimes we don't know what's in store Sometimes we find what we're looking for Sometimes we're rolling Easy Free Sometimes 1 and 1 makes 3 so much to love along this ride. That's why Nationwide is on your side.
- [37:18]
Host
Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates Columbus, Ohio.
- [37:21]
James Booker
I tell you, my wife and I, we. When Raymond had. When Raymond had came home and got an opportunity to sit down with his wife and his kids and everything, and actually, the man was desperate. I mean, he, you know, there's two years that he was away, and I guess whatever legal expenses that he had, it's chewed up, whatever finances that they may have had. And obviously with that being said, you know, that puts you in a financial bind with credit cards and everything else on. The man pretty much was destitute. So my wife and I, you know, we said, listen, let's. Let's do what we can do to help them. So we were able financially to bless them and try to help them somewhat from where we could do to help them as a family, because, you know, I Could only imagine. I know if I was going through something like that, someone who knows me as an employee first, someone who has supervised me cycling, and someone that I call a friend would be there for me. Yeah, because as we know, most times when it's time for someone to help you row that boat, they ain't there riding the boat. As long as the motor running right. If you got to get out and roll my. I don't know if I can help you.
- [38:33]
Host
Huh.
- [38:34]
James Booker
You know, I'm afraid to deal with you because, you know, I don't want something blowing back on me like you asked me earlier. Well, I know I'm an upstanding guy, and I know I've always did everything to the best of my ability with the sheriff's department. And I don't see where it's a conflict for me helping a friend. This is a friend. This is not. This is not someone, you know that I don't know. And let's be clear. He went to court. He was exonerated. So why wouldn't I help a friend? Correct. Why wouldn't I help his family if I can? Why wouldn't I. Why wouldn't all of his friends help him? Because he helped so many. See, that's the thing, you know, if people would, like, totally be honest. And this is why, like I always tell Raymond, I don't. I don't associate myself with only a few people. And I learned this in life. I learned this in life. And I always say, if I took my jacket off and you could see my back, you see knives, lies, spoons, forks, bricks, shelves, trucks, you name it, it's all been in my back. So I've learned, and like I share with Raymond, learn to separate yourself and only feel yourself with people who can feel you.
- [39:55]
Host
Yeah.
- [39:55]
James Booker
You can't give yourself to the world because the world don't appreciate you. If you're a person that's always given a person. No, a giver, they'll use you up. They'll take advantage of that. So you got to protect yourself by saying, you know what? I'm only going to be around people I know. If I pick up the phone and I call you and I. And if you. If I need a thousand dollars, there's no question why I need it. I know the money coming. I know it's coming. And there's no question and there's no question. Hey, when you gonna pay me back? No, you get it back to me when you need to. So, I mean, that's the world that I try to let Raymond share in the fact that, look at my life, you see why I don't deal with a lot of people. And that was perfectly. I did that on purpose to.
- [40:39]
Host
To.
- [40:39]
James Booker
To get you in a place with your story that you're dealing with and what you're going to. Everybody don't need to be a part of your journey because everybody don't know what you're going through.
- [40:48]
Host
Yep.
- [40:49]
James Booker
Well. And like I tell him all the time, I said, raymond, a lot of people are trying to attach themselves to you. Your story's only unique to you. And I said, people cannot help you because they don't know what you're going through. A lot of people, they criticize, oh, you've been going through this for so long. And I always told him, I said, raymond, it's your life and you have to fight for your life. And what you feel, you was wrong. Then you feel like you need to get yourself vindicated in your family. Then you fight for your life. It doesn't matter what the next person say. And I said, think about this, Raymond. Think about the journey that God has put you on. You became an author of a book, you ran for public office. You got your degree. You became a part of eternity. You've been on all different types of podcasts. You do a backpack drive every year in the community. I said, look at all the things because of what happened to you. Look at all the great things that God continuously blessing you with.
- [41:49]
Host
Amen.
- [41:50]
James Booker
And I said, and as long as you understand that, it's all a blessing. And because your story is so unique, you able to share that story with. With so many. And I told him this just the other day when I spoke to him. I said, raymond, I said, think about this. You got a guy out there, a young lady out there that has probably gone through something similar like you have. And because they heard your story, it gives them hope, it gives them direction. Because a lot of people don't know which way to go, which way to turn in order to put themselves in a position to even start to fight.
- [42:23]
Host
That's right.
- [42:24]
James Booker
So think about the reason you went through, what you went through. And maybe God said that reason, it really wasn't for you. It was for you to help someone else, a lot of someone else's, because I'm going to take care of you. I'm going to make sure you're fine. But I need you to go through this so you can help a lot of people. Because a lot of people go through a lot of things in law Enforcement, law enforcement is, is, is a, is a job that you can go to work today on top of the world, and by 3:00 this afternoon, the world can be on top of you. And it probably has nothing to do with anything you did. You just could have been present, you could have just been in the area and now you fighting for your job, but you fight, you know what I mean? And, and that's what happens. That can happen, you know, and just like with Raymond, you know, this man basically was fighting for his life. And so as a friend, you know, and somebody who try to be a person that he could, you know, come to, for, for. For. For. I don't even use the word comfort, but come to somebody for guidance and, and some correction and understanding. Because let me tell you something. I tell Raymond a lot of things he don't want to hear because I consider myself a big brother to him.
- [43:33]
Host
That's it.
- [43:33]
James Booker
I consider myself a friend. I'm not, I'm not a yes man. I've never been that so. And I've always lived my life, man. I'm gonna tell you what's on my mind, and sometimes I shouldn't. But for me, if you should, if I'm your brother, man, this is all gas, no break. I'm gonna tell you just what I'm thinking.
- [43:49]
Host
Yes, sir.
- [43:49]
James Booker
You won't get it, you know, and even if it hurts, and even if you don't speak to me for a week, you know what? I'm still okay, because you're gonna come back to me.
- [43:57]
Host
That's right.
- [43:58]
James Booker
I told you what was right. That's all.
- [44:01]
Host
Sergeant Booker, man, you're giving us all the leadership lessons right here, man. Like we've been talking for 30 plus minutes and it feels like 10. Because I'm learning from you. Like, you're speaking to me in a lot of this, you know, like, leadership is my thing and business growth is my thing. And so, you know, I want to, I want to ask you this on the way out, like for the listeners and viewers, what's one tip? What's one piece of advice that you want people to know or to follow from the words of the master himself, Sergeant James Booker.
- [44:37]
James Booker
I would tell anybody, never change who you are. Never compromise your values, and if something is wrong, just know it's wrong. Nobody can tell you it's right when you know it's wrong. And don't fall into what is wrong when you know what is right. You know, I would, I would tell any person that, because it all starts with Your character. Because at the end of the day, that's all people can judge you on, is your character. Nothing else. It's your character.
- [45:07]
Host
I love that. I totally love that. I love that, brother. I love you. I know that you have. Even though you're retired, you've got this busy schedule. So the fact that you were able to take some time out of your day and spend time with us on Make Them Club podcast, I truly appreciate it, man. And anytime you want to be back on and just drop wisdom from you, I would love to have you on, man. Like, I learned a lot from, from this conversation, from a leadership perspective, the insights that you have, the standards that you created, and the straightforwardness that's about you. I totally appreciate that. Respect that and love you, brother.
- [45:47]
James Booker
Yes, same here. And thank you for the opportunity. And you know, like I told you earlier off mic, I really appreciate the work that you do. The podcast is something that I think will reach many and I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to speak. Thank you.
- [46:07]
Host
All the time. All the time. Anytime you want to be back on, I promise I got you. I promise.
- [46:11]
James Booker
I got you.
- [46:12]
Host
All right. For all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.
- [46:18]
James Booker
Thank you.
- [46:20]
Mick
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unplugged. If today hits you hard, then imagine what's next. Be sure to subscribe, rate and share this with someone who needs it. And most of all, make a plan and take action, because the next level is already waiting for you. Have a question or insight to share, send us an email to hello ickunplugged.com until next time, ask yourself how you can step up.