Sunny Bonnell: Reveals Lessons From Embracing Defiance and Uniqueness

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Mick Unplugged

Episode: Sunny Bonnell – Reveals Lessons From Embracing Defiance and Uniqueness

Host: Mick Hunt

Guest: Sunny Bonnell (Co-founder of Motto, Author of Rare Breed)

Date: September 4, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Mick Unplugged dives deep into the power of visionary leadership and the necessity of embracing defiance and uniqueness in both personal and professional spheres. Mick Hunt sits down with Sunny Bonnell—leadership thought leader, co-founder of Motto, and author of Rare Breed—to explore what drives truly innovative leaders, how organizations can foster aligned vision, and why so-called rebellious character traits are essential for modern success. Together, they challenge traditional leadership paradigms and encourage listeners to celebrate what sets them apart.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Because” Beyond “Why” in Leadership

• Sunny’s Driving Purpose (01:55):
  • Sunny explains her “because” is to help people, companies, and leadership teams find and realize their ultimate potential. She highlights a major gap in organizations: most are not led by visionary communicators, making alignment and passion difficult.
  • “I wanted to build a company that would champion the greatest visionary leaders… People who dream of a world that doesn’t yet exist and who have the guts to wrestle that vision forward in a world that’s trying to stop them.” — Sunny Bonnell [01:55]

2. Visionary Leadership vs. Operational Leadership

• Dissecting Leadership Myths (03:23):
  • Mick and Sunny agree: “Getting stuff done is not a leadership trait” (Mick [03:23]).
  • Visionaries can execute, but their real power is in rallying teams with a clear vision and building organizational alignment.
  • Sunny: “If you have a visionary leader, and you empower visionary thinkers within the company, you drive that down through the culture… you move quicker.” [04:34]
• Visionaries & Stabilizers (10:00):
  • The most effective organizations have both visionaries (the “Why” people) and operational stabilizers (“How” people).
  • Sunny discusses her partnership with Ashley (COO of Motto): “While I’m dreaming big…and driving the company toward visionary leadership, she’s helping make those ‘how’ things happen.” [10:00]

3. Alignment on Vision, Mission & Values

• Case Study: Fortune 75 Company Exercise (13:03):
  • Mick recounts asking a room of high-level leaders (chairman of the board, shareholders, senior execs) to recite their company’s mission and values—almost nobody could.
  • “If your team has zero idea what you…believe and feel, there’s no way they could ever deliver to your expectation.” — Mick [13:03]
• Simplicity & Action-Tied Values (14:29):
  • Sunny shares how Motto solves this with “Vision Camp”—a hands-on workshop for executives to crystallize vision and create actionable, memorable core values.
  • “It’s not enough to have a statement if you do not tie actions and behaviors to the things you want people to demonstrate.” — Sunny Bonnell [15:40]
  • At Motto: “If we ask what we do here, everyone will tell you: ‘We do big things.’” [16:40]

4. Embracing Uniqueness: The Rare Breed Philosophy

• Origin Story (18:46):
  • Sunny and Ashley started Motto with $250 as young women in a male-dominated field. Labeled “rare breeds,” they leaned into their differences.
  • “You have to succeed because of who you are, not despite who you are.” — Sunny’s father [20:40]
• The Seven “Vices” as Virtues (20:50–22:00):
  • Rare Breed asks: “What if the parts of yourself that people criticize…are actually your selling points?”
  • The book reframes “vices” like rebelliousness, audacity, emotion, obsession as potential strengths—if properly harnessed.
  • “You have to learn how to temper some of the sharp edges…but when you learn to use them in the right moments and at the right time, they become a force for good.” [22:07]
• The Light & Dark Sides of Uniqueness (22:25):
  • Acknowledges the risk: “These traits…are powerful, but they’re perilous. They can undo you.”
  • Key lesson: “Know the difference between the light side of that trait and the dark side.” [22:45]

5. Lessons Learned: Worth & Defiance

• Sunny’s Core Insight (24:02):
  • “You have to be thankful for really small minds, because…that’s how the rose grew from the concrete.”
  • One of her biggest leadership lessons: “You deserve to be there. You have to grab the moment… You can’t wait.” [24:30]
  • Her “because” is still “igniting possibility in other people”—especially those who underestimate their own worth. [24:10]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On visionary alignment:
  “Brands and companies that don’t have alignment around vision often spin their wheels…they can’t get things done even with an army of people.”
  — Sunny Bonnell [04:34]
• On leadership focus:
  “If 60 plus percent of what you do is getting stuff done, your team isn’t the best team that they could be because you’re doing it the wrong way.”
  — Mick Hunt [03:23]
• On core values:
  “If we ask what we do here, everyone will tell you: ‘We do big things.’…Simple, easy to understand: ‘Is this big enough? Am I doing everything I can?’”
  — Sunny Bonnell [16:40]
• On embracing rarity:
  “You have to succeed because of who you are, not despite who you are.”
  — Sunny’s father, quoted by Sunny [20:40]
• On “Rare Breed” vices:
  “What if you learned how to harness the power of a vice, turn that vice into a virtue and use it to your advantage?”
  — Sunny Bonnell [21:12]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:55] Sunny describes her core “because” and vision for Motto
• [03:23] Mick and Sunny discuss the misalignment of ‘getting things done’ with leadership
• [04:34] Sunny explains the need for visionary alignment across all levels
• [10:00] Sunny on integrating visionary and operational roles; “visionaries vs. stabilizers”
• [13:03] Mick’s real-world exercise exposes a lack of clarity on mission & values
• [14:29] Sunny discusses Vision Camp methodology for clarifying company vision
• [18:46] Story of founding Motto and the genesis of “Rare Breed”
• [20:50–22:00] The concept of “vices” as virtues and learning to channel uniqueness
• [24:02] Sunny’s biggest lesson: self-belief and the imperative to seize the moment

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Resources & Where to Find Sonny Bonnell

• Motto Website: wearemotto.com
• Instagram: @wearemotto
• LinkedIn: Motto on LinkedIn
• Sunny’s Keynote & Projects: sunnybonnell.com
• Vision Camp: visioncamp.io

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Final Takeaways

• True leadership is rooted in vision, not just execution. Empowerer, not ‘doer,’ is the new leadership North Star.
• Simplicity and actionable values drive alignment and high performance—mission statements must be lived, not just written.
• Uniqueness—the so-called “vices” or outlier qualities—are essential advantages if wielded with wisdom.
• Everyone has a role in “doing big things,” but must claim their moment and believe in their voice.

"Remember, your because is your superpower. Go unleash it."
— Mick Hunt [26:36]

Transcript

[Sonny Bonnell]

I think you can get incredible things done and you can also be very visionary. And sometimes people don't equate the two. They think that if you're highly visionary, you're painting a future that is so impossible or so hard to achieve that it makes it impossible to get traction and to get things done.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Welcome to Mick Unplugged, the number one podcast for self improvement, leadership and relentless growth. No fluff, no filters, just hard hitting truths, unstoppable strategies, and the mindset shifts that separate the best from the rest. Ready to break limits? Let's go.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we have someone that I could be related to. We just don't know. We're going to find out. She's a rebel with the cause. A visionary who turns defiance into brilliance. And a leadership powerhouse rewriting the rules of success. As the co founder of Motto, author of Rare. Sorry, author of Rare Breed, and a champion for the bold and unconventional. Buckle up for an unfiltered conversation with the fearless, the trailblazing, the unstoppable. Sonny Bonnell. Sonny, how you doing today, dear?

[Sonny Bonnell]

How are you? Thanks for having me.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

I am honored to have you. And Sonny, you know, huge fan of the work that you do. We share some connections out there in the world and I've been waiting to ask you this question because on MC Unplugged we talk about your because that thing that's deeper than your why. If I were to say Sonny today, what's your because what's that purpose that keeps you driving?

[Sonny Bonnell]

I really believe in helping people and companies and leadership teams find their ultimate potential. So in our work we see a lot of visionary teams and it's become notable that not everybody is led by a visionary leader. And when you look at some of the statistics out there, a lot of people don't actually understand the vision or the purpose or the mission of the company. And it ties back to the leader. And so when you do the data and you look at the math, it means that there's a whole lot of companies out there being ran by leaders who aren't necessarily visionary or can communicate the vision in a clear and compelling way. And so my because is I wanted to build a company that would champion the greatest visionary leaders of our time and people who dream of a world that doesn't yet exist and who have the guts to wrestle that vision forward in a world that's trying to stop them. And so my partner and I co founded Motto with that intent. How can we not only empower more visionary leaders, but how do we create more visionary brands and how do we steward that thinking through that mindset through, but also how do we reveal it within the brands that we build?

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Sonny, I'm trying to sit here and not come out of my seat because I love every single word that you just said and we are in so much alignment about. These are my words and studies that I've done with Forbes and with Deloitte that 74% of most leaders aren't visionaries. Right. By nature. And what happens is you have a lot of leaders who pride themselves on getting stuff done. And I tell these leaders all the time. I was just, I just spoke at an event two weeks ago. Getting stuff done is not a leadership trait. And it's definitely not one that you want to brag about, but because that's not what leaders do. Leaders create the vision and the roadmap, and then their job is to make sure that the pieces are in place to make that happen. If a leader has to get involved in getting stuff done, and I'm not saying that you won't ever, there are going to be moments that, yeah, you got to roll up your sleeves and do things, but if 60 plus percent of what you do is getting stuff done, your team isn't the best team that they could be because you're doing it the wrong way. Love your thoughts on that.

[Sonny Bonnell]

Yeah, I think that, I think that both can be true. I think you can get incredible things done and you can also be very visionary. And sometimes people don't equate the two. They think that if you're highly visionary, you're painting a future that is so impossible or so hard to achieve that it's. It makes it impossible to get traction and to get things done. But in our experience at Motto, it's the exact opposite. If you have a visionary leader or leaders and a leadership team and you empower visionary thinkers within the company, you drive that down through the culture and then you ultimately reveal it in your brand. And you have alignment at every level. You move quicker. Brands and companies that don't have alignment around vision often spin their wheels. They lose a lot of traction. They can't get things done even with an army of people. And it's because they don't always understand what they're fighting for. And so the goal is, is when you're leading a team, you have to make it absolutely clear. This is the hill we're marching towards and this is the flag we're going to carry. And more importantly, don't cast your eyes on anything else. Just focus on the horizon line, focus on the mountaintop. And when you can do that and when you can really help people understand how important their work is to in the contribution that they bring to helping you and them realize the true potential of their work, in accordance with your work and your dreams and your hopes, you make that shared vision so much more powerful because then you remove distraction, you remove indecision, and you ultimately create better, more agile teams. And it's just something that it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of intention, it takes a lot of focus. But when we have worked with brands and organizations that have that and really understand that and they prioritize is unbelievable what they are able to accomplish.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Yep, yep. And to clarify, I wasn't saying that the organization couldn't get things done. I just meant like the leader, that individual leader themselves.

[Sonny Bonnell]

Right.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

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[Sonny Bonnell]

Yeah, and visionary leaders usually are the why people and they're not the how people. And that's something that's really important. And it's an important distinction because a lot of people think that visionaries are just up in the clouds and they dream really big and they're radically bold. And a lot of times that's true. They're not always great operationally. They're fantastic at helping inspire and cultivate what we call motto a culture of possibility which is like what you dream you can achieve but they're not always good at telling you how they need you to do that. And so you kind of need at motto. For example, I have a quote unquote a COO and operator, my co founder and partner Ashley, who is the exact opposite to me in terms of she's a big idea person but she's also an operational master. And so what she allows the two, you know, the two of us are able to do is be able to while I'm dreaming big and trying to drive the company towards that visionary leadership, she's also helping make those how things happen. And that's what you need a lot of the time. You need that sort of operational excellence to mirror the that visionary thinking because they're so important. And whoever that is, whether that's a chief of staff or somebody who just is a little bit more strategically minded. And also in your company, you need both what I call visionaries and stabilizers, meaning the boat. If you have a bunch of visionaries on the boat, the boat's probably going to go in circles, right? But if you have stabilizers in the boat, they're able to kind of understand and chart the course, they're able to row in the right direction, and. And they help the visionary team move where they're trying to go. And so you kind of need both, and that's just something that we've seen time and time again in our work, is how important it is to have both the visionary and both the stabilizers within the company and the culture, because they both have such powerful roles.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Totally agree. Totally agree. And I want to go back to something you said early on, too, about making sure that there was alignment with the mission division, the core values and all that. So, you know, I told you two weeks ago, I was speaking at a conference, and it was for a US based. I'm trying not to get them in trouble, so I need to go down the list safely. US based Fortune 75 company, right? So that way I'm not getting anyone in trouble. And so I had shareholders of the company, were there not all of them, but some chairman of the boards were there, all the senior leaders, and then like two rungs below the pecking order, right? So there's, you know, a good 300 people in the room. And I always do this exercise, Sonny. And here's where I want your. Your feedback, because I know based on who you are, we align with this. I. I had the CEO come on stage with me, and I said, you have to promise me you won't get upset and no one gets fired. So we agreed.

[Sonny Bonnell]

I like that. I like the caution tape, of course.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

And I said, okay, everyone not looking at your phone, not looking at your laptop, look me in the eye. If word by word, you can recite the mission statement of the company, raise your hand. Three people raise their hand. And this includes shareholders, chairman of the board, senior leaders. I said, if you can recite all of your core values, raise your hand. Fifteen people had their hands up. None of them were chairman of the board, none of them were shareholders. So I look at the CEO and I said, this is the problem, because if your team has zero idea what you and your shareholders and your board of directors believe and feel, there's no way they could ever deliver to your expectation. And I'm not saying that they're not doing a great job. And I'm just saying you're doing too much by doing nothing at all. And so we went through this exercise, and I do this with most of my clients, is we create because statements. I don't care about your mission. At the end of the day, I care about your vision, but it needs to be based on a because statement. So I would love your feedback on when you're working with organizations and when you and motto go do what you do. How often are you finding it that people are misaligned with the mission and vision simply because they don't really know it Complexity.

[Sonny Bonnell]

So most of the teams that we work with, we work with really big iconic brands. Everybody from Google to Microsoft to the Minnesota Vikings to really up and coming teams like Aptos and Omni and Cresta Andela, brands like that that are really innovating in this space. And the biggest challenge that they have in helping people understand the vision, the purpose, the mission, the values is oftentimes there's too many values. The values aren't clear enough or tied to behaviors and actions or it's just complicated and our human brains can't handle complexity, especially now in this modern landscape. So a couple years ago we launched at Motto a program called Vision Camp. VisionCamp is a two day workshop for executive leadership teams to not only help you codify and crystallize your vision, but we have something called a vision script, which basically is a seven step process to help you take your team to realize that vision. So vision without action is just a daydream. So we really created Vision Camp to essentially solve this problem because we were seeing so much of it. Teams were coming in and they had a very clear ambition and sometimes an incredible product. They were filling a niche in the market, but they didn't know where to plant their flag. And more importantly, they didn't know how to get everyone else rallied around that flag. And so we designed Vision Camp for that. One of our pilot teams that came through Vision Camp was the Minnesota Vikings. And we worked with them to define their 2025 strategic vision through Vision Camp. And one of the most powerful things that comes out of that is it's not enough to have a statement or a set of values if you do not tie actions and behaviors to the things that you want people to demonstrate. So at Motto, for example, we have very clear values and we reward and kudo based on the demonstration of that value. So if you ask anyone in our company what our values are, they can recite them immediately and then more Importantly, if we ask what we do here, everyone will tell you we do big things. And that is such a big idea. But it's so simple, and it's easy to understand. And when they're measuring their performance and their work, you want them to ask the question, is this big enough? Is it audacious enough? Am I doing everything that I can to make this work succeed? And that's what that is. That's how you embed that into your team.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

I love that I might have to borrow that. Like, one of the things when people ask me what I do, I'm just going to say, I help you achieve big things.

[Sonny Bonnell]

Exactly.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

You're not looking for big things. I'm not the person for you. Sunny isn't the person for you. Sonny, I told you we were related.

[Sonny Bonnell]

I know.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

I knew that.

[Sonny Bonnell]

It's feeling. I'm feeling a kinship. It's unbelievable. I like it. We're going to have to hang out after this.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Oh, for sure. For sure. So I want to go to this amazing book of yours, Rare Breed. And one of the themes that's recurring throughout that book is the fact that people need to embrace. Right. Their uniqueness, their differences, those things that make them the rare breeds. Because these are the words of Mick and Mick only. Society's gonna tell you it's an outlier. Society's gonna put you in boxes. Society's gonna try to frame who you are. But Sonny's trying to help you understand that you need to embrace it, and you need to put that forward. So I'd love for you to talk about why you wrote the book. Like, what. What compelled you to just say, you know what? I'm gonna put pen to paper and put my thoughts down. And then, holy crap, I have a book. I'm writing the book. So walk us through that journey.

[Sonny Bonnell]

Yeah. So Ashley and I started motto in 2005 in our early 20s with $250 in a very traditional town. There were really established players at the time that were advertising agencies mostly. And being women in a creative industry in general is rare. There's only still 0.1% of all creative agencies or even owners owned by women. So imagine back in 2005 how even more of seeing a zebra with spots that might have been. And we got to a point in the first couple of years where we didn't think we were cut out for entrepreneurship because it was really hard. We were bootstrapped. We didn't. We were very young. We both dropped out of college, and we didn't really have any other business owners per se, in the branding space that we could really look up to. And so we had this really pivotal conversation with my dad and he, he's also entre, you know, was entrepreneurial and, and started his business really young. And one of the things he said was, well, you two are a rare breed. Not everyone's going to understand you, not everybody's gonna love you. And you have to succeed because of who you are, not despite who you are. And we kept that free phrase in our realm for a very long time and then decided to pitch it as a book in 2019 and got the book deal. The book went to a bidding war. And the concept of the book is really simple. What if the parts of yourself that other people criticize, traits they call defiant, dangerous, indifferent, are and supposedly catching counterintuitive to your success? What if those same seven so called vices were your selling points? And so we wrote a book about taking seven so called vices and how to flip them into the thing that you become known for in your industry, your career, your business. And it just shot off like a moonshot. And it really resonated with so many people because we were essentially saying, no, you're not flawed. You have to learn how to harness the power of a vice. Because technically, and I'll talk through the seven vices in a minute, we call them virtues. But you think about traits like rebelliousness, audacity, emotion, obsession, hot bloodedness. These are traits that are typically seen as counterintuitive to success. These are things that close more doors than they open doors. They get you fire. And we reframed that and said, but what if you learned how to harness the power of that vice, turn that vice into a virtue and use it to your advantage. That doesn't mean that it doesn't come with prickly points. And that certainly doesn't mean that you're not the standout in the room a lot of the time. But when you learn to understand when it's at work, when it's working for you versus against you, you can be really unstoppable and very powerful. The key in that book is to know the difference between the light side of that trait and the dark side of that trait. Because just as powerful as these traits are, they're very perilous. They can undo you. So in work, if you are consistent, you know, consistently like rebelling and rebelling in every meeting that you're in, and you're consistently like a jackhammer at people, you aren't going to be welcomed in the room. So you have to learn how to temper some of the sharp edges of these traits and learn to use them in the right moments and at the right time so that they become a force for good. They open doors. They help you achieve all the things that you hoped to achieve. And that's really what the book does. And it was really built on 12, 13 years of running a company that so many people said would fail because we were women, because we were too outspoken, maybe we're too audacious. You know, all the crazy things that we were hearing, and we just didn't listen. And I think that many rare breeds just don't hear that, and they don't hear no. And sometimes they hear several no's before they can turn it into a yes. But. But it's the tenacity of being able to do that and to withstand that pressure that truly makes somebody a true rare breed. And more importantly, that's why we called it A guide to success for the Defiant, Dangerous, and different.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Freaking love it. I could talk to you all day about this book because I have so many things I want to uncover there, but I know we don't have a ton of time. You mentioned a lot, or not a lot, but a couple of times that failure. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna use it as lessons learned are part of the journey. It's part of the rare breed journey, right? To learn lessons. So for you personally, what was the lesson that you learned in your Rare breed journey?

[Sonny Bonnell]

That you have to be thankful for really small minds, because I have this saying, that's how the rose grew from the concrete. You have to believe in yourself, and a lot of us don't believe enough in our own potential and capability. So it goes back to my. Because I love igniting possibility in other people, and I'm surprised at how many people don't believe that they have something important to contribute or something important to say. And so when you think of that lesson, your voice demands to be in the room. It should be in the room. And you have to grab your moment. And that is one of the biggest lessons, is you deserve to be there. You have to grab the moment. You can't wait. You have to grab the moment, and you have to believe enough in yourself and what you're going to contribute that it allows you to define your own future. And it's really powerful.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Sonny, I could talk to you all day. You know that, right?

[Sonny Bonnell]

Let's do another one. We can do a couple of these, couldn't we?

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

No. Wholeheartedly what I want to do because I have a ton of subscribers. I want to do a subscriber only episode with you, and I want my subscribers. So my listeners and viewers that subscribe, I want you to message us questions that you have. And we're going to let Sonny the expert answer those questions because we also have a huge parallel on modern leadership, traditional leadership, it's not even outdated. It's just actually wrong. I could go on a rant just on traditional leadership is just wrong, wrong. But, but I'd love to bring you back on Sonny. We have to do that. I think. I think we.

[Sonny Bonnell]

I'd be. I'd be honored.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Where can people follow and find you?

[Sonny Bonnell]

So you can follow [e-mail] on Instagram. We are motto on LinkedIn. Motto. You can also find me. I'm a keynote speaker. And so you can find me at sonnybonnell.com, and. And if you're really curious about Vision Camp, which a lot of people are becoming very curious about, that offering that we've just launched, it's VisionCamp IO. Hmm.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

Love it. Sunny, I'm gonna chat with you offline. I might need you to come speak at one of my events.

[Sonny Bonnell]

I'd love to. I'd be honored.

[Mick (Podcast Host)]

All right. We're gonna make it happen, Sunny. Thank you so much. I'll make sure we have links in the show. Notes and description for everyone. Check out Sunny. Check out Motto is totally worth your time. A lot of resources that they provide. Just an amazing spirit. And it's because, you know, she's got the Carolina connection as well, too. Sonny, thank you so much for taking time, you guys. Pleasure for all the, all the viewers and listeners. Remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

[Podcast Host Intro]

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unpleasant. If today hits you hard, then imagine what's next. Be sure to subscribe, rate and share this with someone who needs it. And most of all, make a plan and take action because the next level is already waiting for you. Have a question or insight to share, Send us an email to hello icunplugged.com until next time. Ask yourself how you can step up.