Podcast Summary: Mick Unplugged – “W. Kamau Bell & Glenn Singleton: Confronting Race: Courageous Conversations That Matter”

Host: Mick Hunt (“Realm”)
Guests: W. Kamau Bell (Emmy & Peabody-winning comedian/storyteller) & Glenn Singleton (education equity architect, creator of Courageous Conversations)
Date: June 17, 2025

Episode Overview

This powerful episode brings together two leading figures in race, equity, and courageous social dialogue: comedian-filmmaker W. Kamau Bell and educator–consultant Glenn Singleton. Guided by host Mick Hunt, they dive deep into the true nature of modern leadership, the critical need for “courageous conversations” about race, their personal driving “because,” and how communities and individuals can catalyze real change from within and outward.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of “Because” and Personal Legacy

• Glenn Singleton’s ‘Because’:
  • His motivation is rooted in generational struggle and ancestral resilience: “Everybody who's looked like me has had this journey before me... when we get to my generation and we have more than we've ever had. And so I just feel like it can't fall apart with me.” (02:18)
• W. Kamau Bell’s ‘Because’:
  • His reason centers on responsibility to his children and community: “I feel a responsibility to, to make sure that the world is as easy a place to navigate for my three daughters... And I sort of think of it as the Black Baton... my goal right now is to make sure that when I hand them the black Baton, that it's not heavier than it was when I got it.” (03:15)
• Memorable Moment:
  • Both speakers reflect on lineage, duty, and passing the torch, connecting the struggles and victories of ancestors to present activism.

2. “Internal Before External” – Starting Difficult Conversations

• Self-Reflection as Step One:
  • Glenn underscores looking inward as critical: “We have to do the first work of looking inward, right? And we have to ask that simple question: what impact does race have on my life?” (00:00 & restated 12:51)
• Internal Family Dialogues:
  • W. Kamau Bell discusses having ongoing, honest conversations with his children about race and justice, using both activism and day-to-day life as teachable moments.
    • “The more that in my house...they’re hearing me have conversations...they’re aware that...we want to be on the side of the people. And the people is not just people who look like us...” (08:58)
    • On developing their own voices: “You’re never going to get in trouble with me if you're defending yourself or somebody else who needs to be defended.” (10:45)

3. Wealth, Resources, and Community Accountability

• Modern Resources:
  • Glenn highlights how today’s technology, wealth, and ancestral wisdom can (and should) be harnessed to address persistent issues like education gaps:
    • “We've got a buttload of stuff that we can use right now to get this, to get this thing moving in a way that those elders and ancestors would be proud of us.” (07:40)
  • He calls on successful members of the Black community to invest back where it counts: “I'm pushing right now on the multimillionaires and the billionaires to figure out...what it is that you're doing with all that extra...” (06:20)

4. Beyond Diversity: A Movement, Not Just a Conversation

• Origins and Impact:
  • Glenn tells the story of creating “Beyond Diversity,” a framework celebrating 30 years, focused on proportionate racial representation in all societal “good stuff.”
    • “The equitable future, the mark of racial equity, is when we start to see ourselves proportionately represented in all the good stuff...Beyond Diversity was designed so that we could have the conversation to move a society...to that place of the elusive yet tangible, sometimes, equality.” (12:51-15:16)
  • Key principle:
    • Real equity means being “reflected in the goodies of society at the same proportion that we live in this society.” (14:30)

5. Politics, Coalitions & Pushing for Change

• Role of Politicians:
  • Kamau is candid about the political process: “Politicians only exist to be pushed into the right forms and functions. Even if you support them 99% of the time...there’s only 1% time you’re like, hey…” (28:16)
  • Historical context: Bell and Singleton reflect on how even “heroes” like LBJ and Kennedy needed pressure and advocacy to enact civil rights change. (24:31-28:16)
  • On grassroots effort and activism: “We are so scared we’re looking for a hero instead of looking at ourselves and going, what can I do?” (29:28)
  • Memorable Quote:
    • Kamau quoting his mother: “The only thing you can trust less than a politician who doesn't want your vote is a politician who wants your vote.” (30:39)

6. Courageous Conversations in Practice

• How to Start: Glenn’s Framework
  • First, accept the paramount importance of racial justice (“This cannot be what everybody understands America to be without racial justice.” 31:29)
  • Engage in true introspection and develop a personal relationship with race.
  • Recognize there will be disagreement and embrace the nuance: “Rather than a retreat from that, that’s when you know that you’re entering the next level.” (32:28)
  • Understand race as a system of power: “There is a hierarchy of power...You’ve got to see white supremacy and you’ve got to see anti Black racism.” (33:20)

7. Advice for Listeners Who Fear “Getting It Wrong”

• Kamau’s Guidance:
  • Audit your circle: “You need to do an audit of your friend group and see who you’re surrounding yourself with that you can’t be honest with.” (34:37)
  • Embrace learning and mistakes; change happens in discomfort:
    • “True change happens in the uncomfortable spaces, in the spaces of like, I don't know how this is going to go down.” (36:59)
  • The Harriet Tubman mindset: “Whenever I start to get caught up in my own...what if I say the wrong thing?...the ghost of Harriet Tubman shows up and goes, what, what’s hard?...You’re afraid to talk. Oh, okay.” (36:57)
  • On support: “If I do [say something wrong], I am surrounded by people who want to go, hey, Kamau, come here for a second. And they’re going to do it with love—unless I keep doing it.” (34:37)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On legacy & responsibility:
  • Glenn: “I just feel like it can't fall apart with me.” (02:18)
  • Kamau: “My goal right now is to make sure...the Black Baton...is not heavier when I hand it to my daughters.” (03:15)
• On honest conversations at home:
  • “If you don't know your truth, if you can't have your own voice in here, you'll never have it out there.” – Mick (11:59)
• On self-reflection before action:
  • Glenn: “We have to do the first work of looking inward, right?” (00:00, 12:51, 31:29)
• On discomfort and growth:
  • Kamau: “True change happens in the uncomfortable spaces.” (36:59)
• On the politics of politics:
  • Mick: “When you understand the politics of politics, nothing actually surprises you...” (30:07)
• On friendship & accountability:
  • Kamau: “If you haven’t figured out a way to have a friend group that is...lovingly call you in...then you need to look at yourself...” (34:37)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 00:00–03:15 | Personal “Because”; Legacy & Purpose | | 05:34–08:32 | Sparking Internal Conversations; Tech & Resources in Change | | 08:58–11:59 | Raising Conscious Kids; Teaching Justice at Home | | 12:51–15:16 | Beyond Diversity: Movement & Equity Goals | | 19:25–23:52 | Kamau’s “Who's with Me?” Tour & Building Coalitions | | 24:31–30:39 | Politics, History, and Who Drives Real Change? | | 31:29–33:48 | Courageous Conversations: How to Start, Why It Matters | | 34:37–36:59 | Advice for the Fearful; Embracing Discomfort & Learning |

Tone & Language

The conversation is passionate, honest, and laced with humor—reflecting the authenticity of all three speakers. Kamau brings levity and sharp candor, Singleton offers powerful reflective insight, and Mick grounds the episode with gratitude and practical leadership ethos.

Where to Follow & Upcoming Events

• W. Kamau Bell:

  • Who's With Me? on Substack
  • Tour dates (Berkeley, Charleston, Durham, Seattle, Portland): wkamau bell.com
  • June 17–22, 2025: Berkeley Rep; proceeds support Bay Area orgs affected by NEA cuts

• Glenn Singleton:

  • Website: www.courageousconversation.com
  • Instagram: @courageousDove444
  • LinkedIn, Facebook

Final Words

The episode is a call to action: reflect on your own “because,” build honest dialogue in your community, and recognize that courageous change happens when we bravely step into uncomfortable, necessary conversations. As Mick affirms:
“Your ‘because’ is your superpower. Go unleash it.” (40:55)