Podcast Summary: Migrant Odyssey — “All Good Stories Start with our Grandmothers”
Host: Stephen Barden | Guest: Shams (Founder, Waves to Home)
Date: March 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Migrant Odyssey explores the role of storytelling and identity in the lives of displaced people, focusing on the experiences of Palestinian-Jordanian activist and storyteller, Shams. Through personal anecdotes, reflections on family, and detailed discussion of her work with the global movement “Waves to Home,” Shams illustrates how collective memory and shared narratives build resilience and community among migrants. The conversation seamlessly weaves family history, displacement, hope for liberation, and the power of language into a compelling testament to humanity without borders.

Key Themes & Discussions

1. The Difference Between Storytelling and Propaganda (00:00–05:25)

• Host Stephen Barden opens by discussing the crucial distinction between personal storytelling (as a dialogue) and propaganda (as a monologue).
  • Quote:
    “Propaganda is a monologue... Storytelling, personal and communal, even mythology, is a dialogue. It can be nothing less.” — Stephen (01:00)
• He emphasizes the affirmation and belonging that come from sharing stories with a ‘loving listener,’ and the deep importance of this process for displaced people.

2. Origins: Grandmothers and Displacement (05:25–07:45)

• Shams begins her story, stating, “Like all good stories, mine starts with a displaced grandmother” (05:47), and traces her family’s path from Jaffa, through Syria, to Jordan.
• Both her grandmothers were refugees, one displaced during the Nakba (1948) and the other due to the Naksa (1967).

3. Family, Memory, and Growing Up in Jordan (07:45–10:44)

• Shams recalls her happiest childhood memory: playing in the rare Jordanian snow with her family in Jabal Akhdar.
• She shares how her mother, a children’s fiction author, and her workaholic father shaped her deep love of language, stories, and her Palestinian identity.

4. Storytelling as Connection & Inheritance (10:44–12:26)

• The tight relationship with her grandmother is described as the main conduit for connection to Palestine, especially through poetry, jokes, and memories.
  • Quote:
    “Narratives and stories are the way in which... our elders transform all of this, like, core knowledge to us.” — Shams (11:15)

5. Grandmother’s Stories: Humor and Humanity (12:26–14:11)

• Shams shares two favorite stories from her grandmother, both humorous and touching:
  • Saving up to buy a cow as a child, only to have her cousin hide it each night (12:45)
  • Treasuring new shoes for months until, after all that waiting, they no longer fit (13:30)
  • Insight: These “little things” humanize her grandmother and deepen the generational connection.

6. First Visit to Palestine and Spiritual Homecoming (14:11–17:10)

• Shams describes the complicated process of visiting Jerusalem under Israeli visa restrictions, and the overwhelming sense of calm and belonging it brought her:
  • “That’s the only moment in my life where I felt like, yeah, maybe I can feel this spiritual connection to a place.” — Shams (16:49)

7. Complex Identity: Palestinian, Jordanian, Displaced (17:10–21:37)

• Discusses growing up with blended identities and when she first noticed being “displaced,” highlighted by a schoolmate’s question: “Are you Jordanian Jordanian?”
• Attending university among other Palestinian refugees diversified her understanding of privilege and deepened her connection to her community.

8. Privilege, Community, and Responsibility (21:37–24:47)

• Shams reflects on learning about her own relative privilege within the refugee experience, and the importance of education and giving back through teaching and volunteering:
  • “You go in and you try to understand as much as possible, and you work with people. You don’t tell them what to do. You build something together.” — Shams (24:00)
• Community building is highlighted as the heart of Palestinian resilience.

9. The Power and Necessity of Community (24:47–30:02)

• Shams recounts working with Gazan children with cancer recently displaced to Jordan, witnessing how they and their families support each other after profound trauma.
  • Quote:
    “It is the only option that they have... other than giving up. And that is absolutely not an option for any Palestinian.” — Shams (26:27)
• The desire and hope for return to Gaza persists for these families.

10. Returning to Ancestral Roots (30:05–34:09)

• Shams shares the emotional journey of visiting her father’s ancestral village for the first time, seeing the sea at Jaffa, and the powerful, bittersweet bond this visit created with her father.
  • The emptiness and altered landscape—shopping malls over old houses—is a visceral reminder of loss.
  • Quote:
    “It’s a very strange feeling... you know for a fact that this parking lot you’re standing on used to be somebody’s house.” — Shams (32:57)

11. Denied Return and Experience of Occupation (34:09–35:46)

• Multiple subsequent requests to visit were refused. The first visit was marred by hours of border interrogation, further underscoring the everyday reality of occupation.

12. Finding Belonging in Diaspora: Waves to Home (35:46–39:54)

• The genesis of “Waves to Home” came during an international conference, where Palestinians from many diasporas bonded and realized the critical need for a platform for displaced stories.
  • “That night was very, I would say, magical... this invisible thread that you can see in all of the Palestinians around you.” — Shams (38:00)
  • Waves to Home is now a global movement focused on creating safe spaces and dialogue among refugees and displaced people worldwide.

13. Vision, Activism, and Material Liberation (40:16–42:37)

• Shams speaks of her life’s direction: working, through language and activism, towards genuine “material liberation” for Palestinians and all displaced people.
  • She believes filling gaps in public knowledge—especially about the interconnectedness of oppression and colonialism—is key to solidarity.

14. Building Global Solidarity and Education (42:37–46:11)

• Her experience with European activist groups (No More War) and education initiatives centers on connecting global issues (such as extractivism and environmental justice) with the Palestinian cause.
  • “All of this is connected... the way you get people to care about Palestine is to get them to care about their own communities, their own native people.” — Shams (45:06)

15. The Nature of Hope (46:11–47:50)

• Hope is difficult, but necessary: “You have to do the work regardless.”
  • Quote:
    “Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.” — (Antonio Gramsci, cited by Shams 46:41)
• Hope is found in genuine, collective action willing to risk “privileges” for true justice.

16. Western Apathy and Fear (47:50–49:59)

• Stephen and Shams discuss the barriers—especially fear of social and professional consequences—that prevent more open support for Palestine in Western societies.
  • Power lies in collective action and dismantling the myth of Western “civilization versus barbarism.”

17. Translating and Interpreting: The Work of Voice and Memory (49:59–54:10)

• Shams finds both challenge and comfort in her linguistic work—interpreting for refugees and activists. Maintaining accuracy and emotional nuance is central, yet draining.
  • “Being an interpreter... acts as a barrier between me and what is being said. My loyalty lies with the speaker.” — Shams (51:43)
  • She works to convey not just words, but the emotional truth of stories, while acknowledging some elements are inevitably “lost in translation.”

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Propaganda is a monologue... Storytelling... is a dialogue. It can be nothing less.” — Stephen (01:00)
• “Like all good stories, mine starts with a displaced grandmother.” — Shams (05:47)
• “My connection to Palestine definitely comes from stories.” — Shams (10:47)
• “You go in and you try to understand as much as possible, and you work with people. You don’t tell them what to do. You build something together.” — Shams (24:00)
• “It is the only option that they have... other than giving up. And that is absolutely not an option for any Palestinian.” — Shams (26:27)
• “It’s a very strange feeling... you know for a fact that this parking lot you’re standing on used to be somebody’s house.” — Shams (32:57)
• “That night was very, I would say, magical... this invisible thread that you can see in all of the Palestinians around you.” — Shams (38:00)
• “Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.” — Antonio Gramsci, cited by Shams (46:41)
• “My loyalty lies with the speaker. I want to be able to portray this message as accurately as possible.” — Shams (51:43)

Memorable Moments

• The joyful, childlike memories of rare Jordanian snowdays (07:46)
• The bittersweet humor of her grandmother’s stories about cows and ill-fitting shoes (12:26–14:11)
• Her father breaking down on seeing his village again after decades; layers of loss and reunion (32:00)
• The birth of the “Waves to Home” movement during an impromptu gathering of displaced Palestinians at an international conference (38:00)
• The technical and emotional labor of interpreting the stories of trauma in real time (51:00–54:00)

Final Reflections

The episode closes with gratitude and mutual respect. Shams’ narrative is a vivid reminder that individual and collective stories are essential for healing, resistance, and creating belonging across borders. The ongoing thread through all is community—the “invisible thread” that ties together those who have been forced to leave home, yet continue to build new ones wherever they land.