Ep 30: There are no journalists - but ours.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Migrant Odyssey – Ep 30: "There are no journalists – but ours"

Host: Stephen Barden
Guest: Shuruq Asad, Palestinian journalist
Date: August 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Migrant Odyssey brings the urgent, deeply personal perspective of Shuruq Asad, a veteran Palestinian journalist from the West Bank and a third-generation refugee. The conversation explores the reality faced by local journalists in conflict zones—especially Gaza and the West Bank—challenging Western media narratives and spotlighting the ongoing dangers, obstacles, and traumas of reporting under occupation. Shuruq shares her own journey, discusses the founding of the Palestine Journalism Hub, and grapples with the emotional toll and moral imperatives of her work. The episode is a powerful meditation on courage, humanity, and the essential act of bearing witness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Double Standard in Journalism (00:08–04:24)

• Host's Framing:
  • Western war correspondents are lauded and protected; local journalists in places like Gaza face constant peril without recognition.
  • Major media outlets often claim "no journalists are allowed" in Gaza—overlooking the work and sacrifices of Palestinian reporters.

    "Who were all these people who got shot or blown up or imprisoned while wearing a press vest? ... They mean there were no Western journalists." (A, 02:15)

2. Shuruq’s Personal Background & Motivation (04:35–07:58)

• Identity and Roots:
  • Third-generation Palestinian refugee from Beit Mahsir (now an Israeli settlement).
  • Driven by a love of her “country that I love, which is Palestine, and in my city, Jerusalem,” and a desire to survive and document injustice, occupation, and "another kind of genocide." (B, 04:47)
• Professional Formation:
  • BA from Birzeit University (West Bank), MA from Paris during COVID.
  • Stresses that real journalism transcends academic training—“journalism...needs really belief and passion and really hard work.” (B, 06:08)

3. Founding the Palestine Journalism Hub (08:02–14:17)

• Origins & Purpose:
  • Not a long-held dream, but emerged from mentoring younger journalists and recognizing the need for an independent, empowering space.
  • Aimed to foster free, independent reporting and mutual support—especially across fragmented Palestinian regions.

    “No matter all this geographical distance and detachments...we really share the story in all Palestine.” (B, 09:34)

• Emergency Response:
  • After the onset of the “genocide,” priorities shifted to provide direct aid: flour, bread, microphones, tents—basic survival and dignity before training.
  • Community-driven support allows journalists to continue telling stories “the way they want to tell their narrative and also gain a small amount of money.” (B, 12:47)
• Impact on Shuruq:
  • Passion for this work keeps her grounded amid trauma: “Maybe working with Gaza especially...this is what made me stay on my foot till now and not losing my head or not falling apart.” (B, 13:57)

4. The Western Media Blindspot and Narrative Control (14:17–18:16)

• Discrediting Local Journalists:
  • Emergence of the phrase “no journalists in Gaza” when Western outlets can’t enter.
  • Christiane Amanpour quote: “As long as there are no international journalists in Gaza, then there are no journalists. Imagine.” (B, 14:53)
• Journalist Casualties:
  • 262 journalists killed by Israeli forces since October 2020, including 38 women—15% of Gaza’s journalist corps. (B, 15:19–15:32)
• Double Standards:
  • Use of local "stringers" elsewhere (South Africa under apartheid) when convenient, but not in Palestine.
• Insistence on Willful Ignorance:
  • “They know, they have a decision not to hear.” (B, 17:09)
  • The West’s failure is a collapse of its own professed values on freedom and human rights: “All this bubble fell at the first exam. It fell totally.” (B, 18:16)

5. The Human Cost: Personal Loss and Trauma (18:16–20:23)

• Family Suffering:
  • Shuruq’s husband from Gaza; his family has lost 120 members—“No uncles, all...close relatives are gone.” (B, 18:39–18:54)
  • Homes destroyed, struggles to get loved ones to safety (e.g., $6,000 to evacuate mother-in-law).
• Message to the West:
  • Urges reflection on complicity: “They have to look at the mirror and see themselves and say, did we really participate with our silence...in this genocide or not?” (B, 19:51)
  • Solidarity should not be about “standing with Palestine,” but “standing with their humanity.” (B, 20:17)

6. Obstacles to Reporting and Digital Colonialism (20:23–28:35)

• Suppression:
  • Story is getting out, but only with tremendous difficulty and cost—Internet blackouts, destroyed infrastructure, physical danger.
  • Over 112 media offices destroyed; content suppressed or algorithmically shadow-banned.
  • Local journalists “covering the victims and they are victims themselves.” (B, 21:31)
• Narrative War:
  • “Occupation and colonialism digitally...There is a different level of colonialism.” (B, 23:33)
• Hope Against Odds:
  • Despite everything, Shuruq believes “at the end, maybe not my generation, the world will really understand.” (B, 25:54)
  • Holding to hope is a psychological necessity: “If I really believe that justice will not...win, or...I cannot really imagine we will stay in this forever.” (B, 26:37)

7. Daily Realities: Reporting Under Siege (29:01–34:32)

• Logistical Nightmare:
  • Everyday travel in the West Bank is fraught with danger—settlers, military checkpoints, long delays (turning 10-minute journeys into hours).
  • “This is our life, running away between checkpoints, soldiers, and settlers.” (B, 32:17)
• Field Reporting Risks:
  • Hiding the truth from her family to shield them from worry; deep fear for her safety since having children.
  • Daily work filled with fear, exhaustion, and uncertainty—“I can't remember since two years and a half I did something except this.” (B, 33:40)
• Tragedy and Impunity:
  • Example of a woman who died because ambulances blocked by settlers could not reach her during an attack. (B, 34:18)
  • “No accountability for anybody.” (B, 34:33)

8. Imprisonment and State Violence Against Journalists (34:32–47:03)

• Example of Journalist Wahaj:
  • Spent nearly a year in jail, released paralyzed—subjected to torture and medical abuse.
  • “He cannot hug my kids anymore. I cannot taste the foods I love...I cannot plant the trees and water them.” (B, 36:26)
• System of Arbitrary Detention:
  • British-mandate-era “emergency military law” allows detention without charge, trial, or end date—released “when they are finished...health wise and even emotionally.” (B, 37:08)
• Institutional Complicity:
  • Red Cross refused to issue statements or push for access, fearing diplomatic repercussions. (B, 38:26)
• Personal Trauma:
  • Shuruq was imprisoned and sexually harassed at 13 during a peaceful demonstration.

    “I was sexually harassed badly.” (B, 39:58)

  • Only later recognized the full nature of the abuse; ongoing psychological impact leads her to seek counseling after covering similar testimonies.

9. Systemic Abuse in Israeli Prisons (41:08–46:26)

• Prevalence of Sexual Violence:
  • Reports of rape, sexual assault, humiliation of both men and women prisoners. (B, 41:08)
• Dehumanizing Conditions:
  • Detainees forced to drink urine, kept without food or blankets, physically abused—conditions described as “disconnected from the world.”
  • At 13, Shuruq was subjected to hooding with a urine-soaked bag, physical abuse, exposure to cold.

    “It's like a...bag on your head full of shit…you cannot really breathe well in it.” (B, 43:54)

10. The Political, Not Religious, Nature of the Conflict (44:35–46:58)

• Colonial, Not Religious Struggle:
  • Attempts to stoke religious divisions are deliberate distractions from the colonial reality.
  • “It is apartheid really, in this form...It was never a religious story. They tried to say it is a religious story and it's not...it is a colonialistic story.” (B, 46:43)

11. What Can the Audience Do? (47:03–49:52)

• Call to Action:
  • “Just keep the humanity alive...Refuse to be occupied and really work hard to have the information.” (B, 47:03)
  • Sharing stories, insisting on hearing and understanding others, can have immense impact.

    “You wouldn't imagine how much a word or a march or a song or a film or anything or a piece of journalism...means.” (B, 48:50)

• Reciprocal Hope:
  • Shuruq’s gratitude toward listeners and journalists who amplify Palestinian voices—“you are giving us hope because you are forcing us all to look in the mirror.” (A, 27:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Journalistic Double Standards:

  “Who were all these people who got shot or blown up or imprisoned while wearing a press vest? ... They mean there were no Western journalists.” (Host, 02:15)

• On Perseverance:

  “Working with Gaza especially...this is what made me stay on my foot till now and not losing my head or not falling apart.” (Shuruq, 13:57)

• On Western Media Complicity:

  “They know, they have a decision not to hear. And this is not my issue. It's the issue of keeping their humanity or not keeping it.” (Shuruq, 17:09)

• On Systemic Hypocrisy:

  “All this bubble fell at the first exam. It fell totally.” (Shuruq, 18:16)

• On the Purpose of Storytelling:

  “Because the moment we stop doing it, we will collapse emotionally and as human beings.” (Shuruq, 22:47)

• On Digital Colonialism:

  “Occupation and colonialism digitally, digitally, because we are banned. The content is banned...there is a different level of colonialism.” (Shuruq, 23:33)

• On Hope:

  “I believe at the end, at the end, maybe not my generation, the world will really understand. I cannot stop believing in this.” (Shuruq, 25:54)
  “You give us hope because you are forcing us all to look in the mirror.” (Host, 27:15)

• On the Power of Being Heard:

  “You wouldn't imagine how much the impact is for them to know that somebody there is thinking of them or hearing their stories or seeing what's happening.” (Shuruq, 49:29)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:08 – Introduction: The double standard for war correspondents
• 04:47 – Shuruq’s personal and family history
• 08:02 – Founding the Palestine Journalism Hub
• 14:17 – Western media and the question of “no journalists” in Gaza
• 15:10 – Journalist casualties in Gaza and the West Bank
• 18:39 – Shuruq’s personal losses during the war
• 20:23 – Is the story getting out? Obstacles to reporting
• 23:33 – Digital colonialism and narrative suppression
• 29:24 – Day-in-the-life: Challenges of field reporting in the West Bank
• 34:32 – Imprisonment, torture, and loss among journalists
• 39:10 – Shuruq’s experience of arrest and sexual harassment at age 13
• 41:08 – Systemic abuse of prisoners: sexual violence, torture, and neglect
• 44:35 – On the political (not religious) nature of the conflict
• 47:03 – How listeners can help

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Conclusion

This episode is a searing, unvarnished testament to both the dangers and the necessity of local journalism under occupation—and a spirited call to recognize, listen to, and support those who risk everything to document truth and suffering. Shuruq’s testimony demands that we see the human faces behind the headlines—and implicates us in the choices we make about which stories to see, hear, and share.

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Transcript

[A]

We think of war correspondents as some of the bravest. And so they are. They risk their lives to bring us the story. And when they come home to their news desks and to their families, they know that they're safe and their families have been safe while they were away and their work is recognized. After all, they're on the ground under fire. They should know what's really going on. Who's going to question their interpretation or ask how objective they are, even though nowadays they're mostly embedded with friendly troops. Have any been trying to get the story from the other side, as it were? I can't think of any recent debit. I digress. Our war correspondence are valued, and so they should be. Their reporting is mostly believed. And at the end of a stint, they can go home and they don't have to worry about the safety of their families because they're well away from the war zone. Now imagine for a few minutes being a war correspondent where you never, ever get a break, where you're not embedded with your troops because you have no troops, where you're constantly exposed in the field and targeted by the other side just for being a journalist, where hundreds of your colleagues are either dead or in prison, where you have to worry not only about yourself but about your family because they're targeted as. As well. Where you never get to go home because the war zone is your home and the odds are your actual home has been bombed. And last but certainly not least, your work is not recognized. In fact, the major global networks, the major newspapers, insist that they can't get an accurate picture into that war zone because, quote, no journalists are allowed, unquote. And you think, who were all these people who got shot or blown up or imprisoned while wearing a press vest? And they mean there were no Western journalists. That's something of what it's like being a journalist in Gaza and the West Bank. And I simply can't understand the logic of why a local Palestinian journalist is given no trust by our media when we've always used stringer's local correspondence in many other countries. I was a stringer for the BBC and ABC Australia during the apartheid days in South Africa. Neither my objectivity nor my accuracy was ever questioned in the news organizations I worked for. Later on in Britain, on the news desk or foreign desk, we use stringers all over the world. And yes, of course, we checked their stories, but we didn't say, sorry, we can't get a true picture of what's going on because we can't get our own Reporters in there. Why am I talking about journalists in a podcast about the displaced and the threatened? Because these are the chroniclers who sew the story together. And in many places they are as threatened and displaced as the people they're writing about. Today's guest is from the West Bank. She's been a journalist for 30 years and goes through what I've been describing and much, much more. And as you'll hear, for nearly three years, she has spent every single day trying to get that story out. Shuruk, thank you very much for being on the podcast. I'm really very pleased that you're doing this for us.

[B]

Thank you for having me and thank you for really doing the effort to deliver the story. Thank you.

[A]

Can you tell us something about yourself? Tell me something about your own background. Where were you born? Something so we can get a picture of you.

[B]

Okay. My name is Shuruq Asad. I'm Palestinian, a refugee, third generation of refugees from a village which is now turned to a settlement. It's called Beit Mahsir, near Jerusalem. And I've been a journalist since 32 years in field. And I can say I'm a human being who is trying all those years, first, to really deliver the story. Second, to stay in the country that I love, which is Palestine, and in my city, Jerusalem. And I am trying to survive me, my family, the people I know from this injustice, occupation, apartheid, and even genocide. Even though in Jerusalem and in the west bank it's a different kind of genocide going on and taking place.

[A]

You got your journalism degree at the journalism school in. In Paris, I believe. Is that right?

[B]

The master degree was in Paris. I did it during the Corona, actually. And my. My BA was in Birzait University. Yeah, but you know, journalism, it needs really belief and passion and really hard work and really building lots of skills. More than just taking some skills from universities.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Especially in a place where we are living in occupation since 78 years. And all the catalogs of journalism, they don't really fit totally. Except of course for fact checking and for sources and so on. But the other, like all the challenges to work in field, how easy you can deliver the story, all the challenging we are facing now and our colleagues are facing in Gaza, I don't think it fits in any curriculum in the universities.

[A]

No, I absolutely agree. In fact, when I asked the question, I thought to myself, why am I asking? Why am I asking? The question

[B]

was a very rich experience for me. Birzit is a very rich community, academic and even human experience. I think it's one of the best places where anybody can be. It's just facing now all the challenges of. Of money and so on and all the siege on universities and all the target of students and university and movement and so on.

[A]

So Shuruga, I just wanted you.

[B]

You.

[A]

You founded and run an organization called Palestine Journalism Hub. Tell me. I'm fascinated by it. Could you tell me something about that? Because that's been going for quite a long time and it does some very good work as far as I can see. Could you tell us something about that?

[B]

Actually, to be frank, because we're here and we're talking really honestly together. It was never one of my aims or goals or dreams to really run an organization. You know how journalists are. They're usually more following news and human stories and fully packed with. But I was, before the genocide started, which is really a coincidence, I started into training more to especially young journalists, male and females of my colleagues. And I discovered something in my personality that is really enjoying and knowing how important those sessions are that I was doing from time to time, but individually. And then I was about to take a decision to move. I work now for Monte Carlo Radio, it's a French radio and I do freelancing for Dubai and others. I was about to really move to another place which is a foreign very known organization in Jerusalem. And then I really decided to think about it. Do I really want to have all those battles with agendas international, how do you say, chief editors who will really look at every word, whether I have the right to say it or not to say it or ban this information. And I did not really back then feel, which we knew more later, that there is really any hope in international media to really hear our story. So I said, why I want to do this? So I decided to shift and do this Journalism Hub, which was aiming to really work with my colleagues, especially young generation in Gaza, in West bank and in 48. Because I believe that no matter all this geographical distance and detachments that we are in and those geographical prisons now, but we really share the story in all Palestine. And this is what we have really to do. Try to connect with our colleagues in Gaza in 48, sharing our experiences. Even the older like me, they have something to give and share with the other colleagues. So I started this because I really wanted to work on more free, independent platform where you can really produce stories, where you can really dig more, where you can really use your terminology, where you can really support each other as local journalists and empower our skills and really do content that can be very effective for our society. So I started it. And then two months, the genocide started. And I found myself wanting to do emergency support for my colleagues before doing really training on mobile journalism or AI or podcast, because this was their need, how they can lead live toward those days with dignity and how they can go on with their life and survive as people. First human beings, and then to keep them doing their job and work, because they are, and they were, and they are still our eyes and senses inside Gaza, because we are banned by a military law to enter Gaza. Not me staying in Jerusalem or Ramallah, which is one hour far from Gaza, but also any international colleague to really have his right to enter there and cover the news. So I started first helping them with flour, bread, microphones, tents, blankets, some clean water, those things. And really I relied on family, I relied on other colleagues around the world who wanted to help. And we managed to do it and we managed to have a big community now. And then when they are ready now, after like before a year of the genocide to close its first year, they were ready to have more support, to have like, more trainings. But even now we're trying to help with. To sustain them also with some amounts to let them produce their stories the way they want to tell their narrative and also gain a small amount of money as much as we can gather them together, because they are all displaced, trying even to relieve them from this huge trauma. And so we work in different levels, you wouldn't imagine. And this is not work for me. It is really a passion and a belief and I think it's. I know my part is journalism and this is what I do in life and what I choose in life, but also working with them, maybe working with Gaza especially and some colleagues in Jenin or Hebron or Bethlehem. This is what made me staying on my foot till now and not losing my head or not falling apart, because it's still now something that I cannot really believe that we really faced this in Palestine and in Gaza and really this happened in front of everybody.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it was interesting. There's so many questions I want to ask coming from there, but let me just dive into one. When you said, you know, journalists are not allowed into Gaza and you are certainly not allowed into Gaza and know the international journalism. I was just remembering that, you know, the BBC, amongst a number of major outlets, Western outlets, saying they had to rely on Israel for their news from Gaza as they couldn't get, and I remember this almost as a quote, they couldn't get any journalists into the Strip.

[B]

And I want to add, Amanpour said, as long as there are. When our colleagues were killed. And she was asked about the information. She added, as long as there are no international journalists in Gaza, then there are no journalists. Imagine.

[A]

And in the meantime, of course, you have 264 journalists have been killed by the Israelis in the west bank and Gaza since October 2020.

[B]

262. Among them 38 female colleagues.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those are 15% of the total number of colleagues in Gaza.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The reason for this miniseries that I'm doing on Migrant Odyssey is where does this business of Western media refusing to acknowledge that local journalists exist, that they may know a hell of a lot more than someone in London or New York or Washington or Timbuktu.

[B]

I want to tell you something. If, if Russia banned journalists from entering Ukraine, do you think they will say the same thing or they will rely and will say that we have journalists, local journalists. They will. So it's a matter of a decision and it's a matter of completing the misinformation machine in the west towards Palestine since years.

[A]

Yeah, no, I agree with you. I entirely agree with you. It's. I, I've, you know, and I also find it fascinating because, you know, I, as, as we, I briefly mentioned when I was, when we, when we first started talking that I was a, ran a, an agency, a news agency in, in South Africa for, for some time in the bad old, in the bad old days, in the apartheid days and the BBC and everybody used stringers such as urbanization to get into places where they couldn't go. So they, they do use local people, but clearly only when it suits them.

[B]

You know, I, when I started journalism, we always, because when you are under really injustice imposed, you always think I want them to know, I want them to hear. But I don't think this way. After the genocide, I say they know they have a decision not to hear. And this is not my issue. It's the issue of keeping their humanity or not keeping it. It's the issue of all those lectures they lectured us for years. We between brackets, the third world that we were, they colonized us anyway. And now they say that we want to teach those people about freedom of speech, about ethical journalism, about human rights. And then they were the one who all this bubble fell at the first exam. It fell totally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, I don't want to know why and I don't want to know if they want to know or not. I don't care anymore because, you know, My family, my husband is from Gaza. We were counting two days ago how many people we've been running away from this question, how many people we lost. It's 120. He has no uncles. All his. Really no. The close relatives are gone. This is not. This is beside the colleagues and the friends. We talk about family. 120 his sister's children. All the homes are demolished, all their homes. And we managed hardly to pay $6,000 to let his mom at the first year of war out of Gaza. But all his sisters and the others are inside. And this is the story of everybody. So I really don't. My humanity is clear and this is the only asset that I work to have. And I think in Europe and in the United States, if they want to understand the story, they have to understand they have to do it for themselves because they have to look at the mirror and see themselves and say, did we really participate with our silence and decision not to hear the story in this genocide or not? Because genocide is done in different levels. And they have to decide whether they can look to the eyes of their children and say any more anything about human rights or dignity or accountability. It's. They have to do it for themselves before doing it for us. When we say to people, stand with us with Palestine, it's not because we want them to stand with Palestine, but because we want them to stand with their humanity.

[A]

Yeah. Is it still. I heard what you said. Is it still. What important do you think, to get the story, the reality on the ground out? Or do you think that the reality on the ground is getting out the story? But people are simply not.

[B]

There are two levels of this. The story is definitely going out, definitely. And we see this with the amount of change happened in the streets in Europe or the States or so many people who now really trying to do something. And this happened with blood. I mean, this happened. Our colleagues paid their life so people can see. I mean, the price was very high. Beside the 78 years of the details of the occupation in the daily life and the losses and so on. No, they are letting the story. But hardly, hardly without Internet, when they want Internet, it's really a big mission to have the electricity, the food, the loss, the trauma. The destruction of Israel destroyed 112 media organizations, offices. Three of them were for AFP, Reuters and others. They destroyed everything, the universities, the lives, the neighborhoods, the memories, everything. And they are, they are covering their own story. They are living this genocide. They are covering the victims and they are victims themselves. This is one level I Mean, some people really decided to hear and they said their word in the streets and in other things they did in their communities. Others still decide not to hear. And those people, I think what we can do as journalists, what I do daily, for example, today I was covering a story about settlers. I do it every day. I say, this is what I decided to do, to tell the story. I will do it. Maybe 10 will catch it in this planet. Maybe, maybe we will document it for the history. I don't know, maybe we will do it as testimonies later on. But this is what we decided to do and this is what our colleagues are doing. Because the moment we stop doing it, we will collapse emotionally and as human beings, because hoping that our work will be heard or seen is what is keeping us going. It needs a decision, maybe in the world. Yeah, it needs a decision. And note that we are living not only this occupation, but occupation and colonialism digitally, digitally, because we are banned. The content is banned. Sometimes it's used against our colleagues who are arrested. We have more than 200. Till now, the story is not reached as if it will be another story in the world. So this is another battle that now we are facing in the narrative, in AI, in the algorithms, in social media, there is a different level of colonialism.

[A]

How do you get out of that? How does one get out of that, in your view?

[B]

You mean for people to hear.

[A]

I know you're saying. I know you're saying.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

I know you're saying, you know, we need to look at ourselves, we need to look in the mirror.

[B]

Yeah, and I stopped asking. I stopped asking because you wouldn't imagine the daily, really the daily challenge of survival. You wouldn't imagine how much it is and how much we do effort to defend ourselves. And to defend ourselves, even as journalists, as ethical journalists and professional journalists, not only defenders, that we are not terrorists and we are really looking for freedom and we just want to live like anybody in the world, go to the sea, be protected, travel like anybody else, stay in our home and garden without a settler attacking or burning my place or shooting at me, or staying 10 hours of my day at a checkpoint for a soldier to let me in or not. It's those details make it really hard for us to think of another battle. But I have a huge belief, I cannot find the word in English. It's not like it is a belief that is not without doubt that we have a justice, a justice case or a justice thing, or whatever you can call it. And I still believe that, though there will Be higher prices to pay. But I believe at the end, at the end, maybe not my generation, the world will really understand. I cannot stop believing in this because I cannot. I told you, I will really collapse if I really believe that justice will not really at the end and humanity really win, or because I cannot really imagine we will stay in this forever. And in this loop of trying to get the story out. Please see us, please understand, please hear. I don't know any, but I believe that there is in the world people like me and like you and I tell them, tell them those people. I really have to tell them. Thank you. Because they give me hope and give anybody, my colleagues, hope that it will. This will not last. It will not be a destiny. I mean, like, no,

[A]

in a funny sort of way, you know, I should be saying you give us hope because without being, without being sentimental about this, but you give us hope because you are forcing us all to look in the mirror in, in the west and to see the, the impact we have had on other human beings in, in colonialism and in, in past genocides. There is no doubt that you are giving us hope.

[B]

Thank you for your words. And, you know, I want to say something, maybe it will be a little bit hard, but sometimes I feel that the west is also occupied. Not only us. And they have to free themselves from this occupation. Occupation and colonialism. That has to do with who feeds them the information, who bans other information, who really put things without context of historical information, who really control what they believe or what they don't believe, who really give them the access, who really feeds their minds and children. And it is occupation. They are also occupied.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And you're. And in that colonialism, you're right. There is a digital colonialism. There is an information colonialism. There's. There's a. It's almost.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's an occupation of. It's an occupation.

[B]

It is. It is.

[A]

Yeah. Whether you're talking of algorithms, whether you're

[B]

talking about everything, even, you know, even in internal issues.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There is occupation.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I, I could I ask you just to tell me a sort of the. You talk about the hardships in the field and of course, you know, I have, I have certainly tracked and, and, and followed a lot of those, but could you tell me something about a typical day for you and, and what you have to go through?

[B]

Okay. I will talk about West Bank. Unfortunately, we are dividing Palestine. Okay. Any. Today. Last night. It was a very hard two nights before. It was. They are very bad because the Villages of Ramallah, where I live. Because. Okay, to tell you something that it's another level of challenge is to stay in Jerusalem and to keep my right to stay in Jerusalem. But this means a battle with the authentic Israeli authorities. And because they want Palestinians out, it's a battle of demography. Also. They want settlers more and Palestinians less. I tried to let my husband from Gaza live with me in Jerusalem. They refused. So I had to find a small home near Ramallah. And I go back and forth to Jerusalem, although if I will be. And it's not an issue of religion, because I love and respect all religions. It's an issue about political thing. If a Jewish person will come to Tel Aviv with his wife the second day, they will take passport and stay. And nobody will bother them together. So it is apartheid really, in this form of. Anyways. So we did not really sleep well because settlers attacked the Vill and Deirdre. They are only 10 minutes away. But with settlers with checkpoints, this means two, three hours away. And they closed the whole villages. They burnt fields, they burnt homes, cars. And they killed two young people. And the soldiers usually help them. And Palestinian Authority cannot enter any area anymore. So they are alone. They are facing their destiny alone. And usually they don't. Sometimes they cannot really succeed. So I tried in the morning to enter to one of the villages. I was banned with other journalists. So I went to the other. I find a way between mountains and so on. And it's really dangerous because any settler or soldier will appear and they really harm people. Nobody is protected. So I reached, I made an interview and I came back. But this trip was full of fear. After I had my two kids, I always have those images. I'm less courageous than before. I cannot just. Whenever I'm in field, I see their pictures in front of me. Will I be back to them or not? Will I be safe or not? Will I? I always have those. I even did not tell my husband. I told him I'm going to office because he will be very worried. And I managed to get the testimonies and the story. And I came quickly editing it. And. But this journey not was only filled with fear. It was also long hours. We really lose hours of our lives on checkpoints. Danny. I should reach to those villages by 10 minutes safely. I turn around myself to find which checkpoint is open. This checkpoint is closed. I call colleagues. We have now WhatsApp groups. Which checkpoint is open? Which is safer? Where are the settlers? And this is our life, running away between checkpoints, soldiers and settlers. Checkpoints soldiers and settlers. And I did it. But it took like nearly five hours. I. I went seven, six in the morning or seven in the morning to be able to. Because I have timeline for the bulletin. So it is hard. It is exhausting any. My energy. I can't remember since two years and a half. I did something. Except this is what I'm telling you. Worrying how I would reach to areas, how I will divert the story. My kids safe. Are not safe. My friends are okay. Are not okay. The colleagues and friends and family in Gaza, how are they? There is shelling. Are you safe? Where are the kids? Do you have food? Where is the hospital working? You know this village? One of the people we know, she's 30 years old. She died from Sinjal. Because during the attack of the settlers, they closed all the entrances of Sinjal. And she had something physical that she needed to go to the hospital. And the ambulance stayed trapped. They did not let the ambulance out. And she lost her life. And she has two young children. As simple as that.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

And no accountability for anybody. Our colleague Wahaj spent nearly a year in the. Even less than a year in the jail. It's all due to what we write. It's nothing. And we're not really doing anything else, just writing. And the jail is very, very. It is always hard because I was in jail when I was 13 years old, when I was a kid. But those times I found them hard. But now it's terrible, not hard. He went out losing £40, 40 kilos of his. Of his. Of his weight that everybody sexually harassed. Like everybody of our colleagues and others. But he. He went out paralyzed. He is on a wheelchair. What did they do to him? They gave him. They were beating him badly on the head. Torture. And they gave him. He has lots of health issues, very high blood pressure. And they used to give him medication, the pill. He thought it's the same dose, but it was double dose. So the moment. So he had bleeding in the head and strokes. And he doesn't move anymore. And when I visited him, I did a story about him. And I said in the story, Wahaj cannot speak. I will be his voice in the story. And he was writing to me on the paper, and I was saying what he is writing and seeing his children. And because I know him and I know how much he said in one of the words he wrote, I cannot hug my kids anymore. I cannot taste the foods I love, and I cannot go in the field and cover the stories as I used to be. And I cannot plant the trees and water them because he used really to love planting and working in the field, in the garden. And I cannot again go visit him because I cannot. I don't know what to tell him and I don't want him to see how much I feel sad because he's very. Pride. He has very. He has this pride and we all have it and we never want to be. He's only 30 years old or 32.

[A]

And this was all as a result of him being. Torture them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And they put you in jail. And there is this decision that it was inherited from the British mandate on Palestine that Israeli occupation took it. It's emergency military law that gives the right to the. To the authorities Israeli occupation to arrest you whenever they want, saying that they have a secret file. So you're not. You don't know why you are arrested and you're not addressed to court and you don't know even when this arrest will end. And they usually let our colleagues and people out when they are finished. Finished. I mean health wise and even emotionally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the Red Cross, sorry, the Red Cross did not even deliver a statement saying that they have the right to visit people and see if they have. How is their conditions. When I asked the Red Crescent, you did not deliver any statement till now. Why? Why? If this will be the case in Ukraine or other places, you will act the same. They will not act the same.

[A]

How did the Red Crescent respond to your question?

[B]

The Red Cross. Actually it's not because the Red Crescent is the Palestinian day. Anyway.

[A]

How did the Red Cross respond?

[B]

It's the Red Cross, the international one. He was. I don't want to say the nationality because I don't want anybody to feel uncomfortable. He was very arrogant and he said, don't tell us what we have to do. This is not our way. Because if we will deliver a statement, we will. I don't know how you say as if there will be trouble between the Red Cross and Israel and we don't want this to happen. We will find other ways to do it. Yeah.

[A]

That's what they've always. That's what they've always said for. For decades they've been saying that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can I ask you what was. Why did you go to. Did they put you in prison at the age of 13?

[B]

As a child I was in school in Jerusalem and there was a demonstration. I went to it. I went to this demonstration, peaceful demonstration. And then there were buses taking settlers and soldiers in settlements near the school. They passed from the school and they went down and they chased us and I couldn't run because I thought my colleague was screaming. I thought she was shot. So I went back without thinking to help her. So they really caught us. And yeah, they put me in prison and I was sexually harassed badly.

[A]

You were sexually harassed at the age of 30?

[B]

Yeah. And back then I did not know this is sexual harassment. I didn't know. I felt uncomfortable, but I didn't know. I said, it's part of maybe torturing, questioning. But when I grew up, I know now what is sexual harassment is. And that's why now when I really cover the stories of my. Of so many colleagues or even people in Palestine who are arrested and raped several times, or they talk about harassment, I feel uncomfortable. And today, even I have to tell you, because I'm very frank. I called a friend, he's a counselor, and I said, I think I did not talk about this. I think every time I'm doing an interview with somebody to really document what they went through in the jail, I really feel so many symptoms in my body that I needed to let them out. So I decided to go and talk about it because I did not really deal with it. And yeah, it is bad when, When

[A]

Western media report they. They. Sometimes they talk about rape, but they. A lot of the time they're talking about sexual assault or sexual harassment. We're talking rape with these people?

[B]

No, we're talking rape and several times, yeah. And we talking. And men and women, not only. Do you want me to tell you more, they pee on people. They let them drink the pee. They left them naked and do so many sexual assaults. They laugh, they demolish. Even one of our journalist colleagues that I saw a week ago, they demolished his glasses. He spent one year without being able to see. They film them and laugh. They tell them, say you hate Palestine. Say you do like this. They call their husbands and their wives and their children. They give them barely food and water just to stay alive. They don't give them any medication, the right medication. I mean, nobody can visit them. They put them in small closets. They put them alone in rooms, dark, dark, dark, without any toilet. They pee on the ground. They don't have blankets in winter. They. What do I tell you? So many. They are disconnected from the world. They. When I was in jail, and this was in the. What to say between brackets. The good times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They put. They put a case on my head. It was December because I was arrested the day of my birthday, so it was very cold. They put me outside, they put this case on my Head. The case is full of pee and shit. So you smell it and it's not. You cannot have air in it. And then. And they start beating you without knowing. Suddenly somebody beat you without knowing. And then they put me upside down, my head down with the case that I don't really breathe. My, My. My. My legs up and in the cold. And I did nothing. Any. Even if it's. It's. There is rules, human rules in, in anything.

[A]

When you mean. When you, when you said a case on your head. Are you talking about a bag on your head full of shit? A bag on your head full of shit?

[B]

Yeah. It's not full literally, but it was soaked in something shitty. And it is. I don't know how. What does it mean in English, those bags that now we use when we go to the. To. To buy tomatoes or vegetables. How do you say it's. It's texture. It is.

[A]

It's like. Like. Like a, A hessian bag or.

[B]

Yeah. Like. Yeah. I don't know what you call it that you cannot really breathe well in it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And this was between brackets, the good days.

[A]

And they did it to you as a 13 year old child. That's what they did.

[B]

Yeah. And even you know what they told me it was very. You know how they use this? I'm. I'm Muslim. I never talk about religion, but I want to say the story. And I was in a rosary sister school, school for sisters in Jerusalem. In the interrogation they used to say, how do you go to demonstration? Christians are good, they don't do such things. And I was saying what do you mean by Christians are good and Muslims are bad? And what is this, what is this language or way of thinking? And you know, for a kid 13 years, I even say that, said this to the sister and when I went out and she said yeah, they do this because they want us as if to say. As if good means this and bad means this. And as if Christians are nearer to certain thinking. As if how much they divide people. And in Palestine we never. Till now we don't have this issue of religion. My grandfather back in his village, he had a friend who is a Jewish friend, but it's Jewish within Palestine. The people who lived in Palestine, not colonialists who came from other places. And all the time in Christmas I put a tree to my kids, though I'm Muslim. We go in those marches for Christians or Muslims. We don't really have it in Palestine at all. Yeah, especially Jerusalem. In Jerusalem, you know, this small place, I always say, where prophets are in this small place. They left the world and the three of them in this small place with Jerusalem. So it was never a religious story. And they tried to say it is a religious story and it's not a religious story. It is a colonialistic story.

[A]

It is definitely a colonial story.

[B]

Yeah. It has nothing to do with religion. And it's very dangerous to define people and to tell the story in the religious part.

[A]

How can we help?

[B]

Just. Just keep the humanity alive. Just. This is what I always say. Keep the humanity alive. Refuse to be occupied and really work hard to. To have the information. Really work hard. Because knowing the information will make you not part of harming other people or the continue of a genocide or other. Tell the story to people whenever you can. Let them hear. Let them see. It's. This is the. This is one of the responsibilities. Because silence means other people in the world will be harmed and will be living in death and loss and genocide and occupation. And I really do not wish for anybody to live one single day under the circumstances in Gaza or in West Bank. Even our friends and families and colleagues in 48 areas in Haifa or Jaffa or Nazareth, they are facing huge appetite and discrimination by laws and by others. So please listen. Please make a small effort to hear. To hear others. This keeping our humanity alive is really the benefit for us all because otherwise nobody should believe that they will run away from the effect. We will all pay the price in different ways.

[A]

I agree with you entirely. Interesting that the. The approach that we've taken here on Migrant Odyssey is just to hear people.

[B]

I want to tell you. Thank you. I was listening to some episodes and thank you, really. Thank you. And whoever is hearing me, we really. You wouldn't imagine how much a word or a march or a song or a film or anything or a piece of journalism, you wouldn't imagine how much it means. Our colleagues in Gaza, when I talk to them, and I talk to them daily, several people, I try to divide my days and I tell them usually because they are disconnected and if they are connected, they prefer to call their kids or family this place or look for food or, I don't know, deliver their story. I tell them. I tell them because I know how much the impact is for them to know that somebody there is thinking of them or hearing their stories or seeing what's happening.

[A]

And I want to tell you basically that the stuff that I've seen that you've sent out online, some of the most moving stories that I have seen in my entire life and I've seen a lot of moving stories. So you're being heard. The people in Gaza are being heard. I promise you.

[B]

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

[A]

My guest today was veteran journalist Shuruk. From the occupied West Bank, I'm Stephen Barden. This has been another episode of Migrant Odyssey. That was clinical psychologist Lana talking to me from Lebanon. Thanks for listening. If you like what we're doing, please rate us, send us a message, or recommend us, support us in some way. And if you're a refugee migrant or are threatened with displacement and have a story to tell or know of someone who does, send us that message. In the meantime, this has been another episode of Migrant Odyssey and I'm Stephen Barden.