← Migrant Odyssey
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- [00:04]
A
Welcome to another episode of Migrant Odyssey. Stories of and about migrants of all kinds, people seeking a better life, people fleeing an unbearable one. All, I suspect, wishing they could fulfill themselves in their home countries. Today, not only are we continuing with our series on Palestinians, but we're doubling down because it's just too important, frankly. So joining me as our co host in this conversation is Zoya, my wonderful half Palestinian, half Ukrainian guest from a few episodes ago, who I always tell her could have chosen her parents more safely, but certainly not as well. Zoya and her mother left the Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon for the safety of, you guessed it, Ukraine, left that and since then has been traveling in more places than I care to think about as a peace ambassador. Welcome, Zoya, over to you to introduce our guest today.
- [01:12]
B
Thank you for this beautiful introduction. Hello everyone. Today we have a very special guest from West Bank, Palestine, Firas. Firas is here with us today as the founding curator of the Global Shapers Bethlehem Hub. Firas spent most part of his life in west bank. And today Firas, of course will share with us how was it to grow up in the west bank under the Israeli occupation. And currently he's doing his master's degree in Italy. So of course we would love to know more about that as well.
- [01:44]
A
Firas, tell us something about you were born where. Tell me something about what was that was like growing up.
- [01:52]
C
Okay, thanks for having me first one. So I, I grew up in, in Bethlehem and between Bethlehem and Hebron because I was born in Bethlehem, then my family was in Hebron. So I grew up for 18 years in Hebron, the south of West Bank. Then in the very few years during the 90s, it was the good days after the Oslo occurred. And there was like a light of hope everywhere in the west bank and in Palestine until the beginning of the 2000 with the second intifada, when people start understanding there is no, there is no solution because the other side is still stealing the land. And I start to understand the situation during the second Intifada. Intifada means catastrophe in Arabic. So I start to understand the situation seeing the occupation on the ground around me, in my city and seeing my friends, family members being injured or killed by the Israeli soldier until the age of 18 when I had to start my university. And as any other young youth, I didn't know what to study. So. But I know for sure what my parents want me to study. And they decided to me business administration. And I just went to Bethlehem University. I studied there, but I never was like in, in that field I was very fascinated by the non profit NGOs and social work. So I finished my university and then I start working in that field. For the past eight, nine years now I was working in this field with local and international organizations at the same time from the occupation and the violence and what is happening on the ground. And currently I am in Italy. I moved to Italy to do my master's in conflict management and humanitarian actions at Siena University and I left just one week before October 7th. So here I am.
- [04:16]
B
Maybe I can ask, because as you now mentioned that you've left just few days before October 7th. So maybe we can ask you, Firas, how are you doing today? Like really, how are you today?
- [04:29]
C
Well, it's sometimes you feel like it's the normal question, how are you? Yes, I'm fine. But I think nowadays not only Palestinian, but everyone who is following what is happening in Gaza, especially you don't feel well because there is something not normal is happening. At the beginning of the situation, for me it was, okay, one more word will be for a few days, maybe one month, but not more. But now seven months of ongoing documented genocide. You start to feel numb, like you really don't know how to feel. At the beginning you have the shock, but then you start to see there is hope, there is no hope. There is hope, there is no hope. And you see the situation outside. And being outside, for me, it's the first time like looking at the situation from outside. So I really like, I feel numb. You don't know how do you feel? So, and I think it's not only me, but it's like the general situation.
- [05:38]
A
You said when you were talking about, you became aware of the, what was going on during the first intifada, but you glided over it like a lot of my Palestinian guests do. I saw my friends being injured and killed. Tell me something about what that was like on a day to day basis and then moving on. When you started working, you, I assume worked outside Bethlehem, you went to work in Jerusalem. What was that like getting to and from Jerusalem every day? But let's start with, I want to know something about what it was like as a young boy knowing that you had that basically the settlements were closing in. There were, there are dozens and dozens and dozens of settlements surrounding Bethlehem and where you were. So you had that, you had the settlers, you had the army. What was that? Tell me something about that. I mean, how do you live a normal life within?
- [06:50]
C
Like there is no normal life, basically. So I used to explain to using some Palestinian Food, we have a dish called maqlubi, which is like. Consists of meat and rice with fried vegetables placed in a pot which is flipped upside down, which is the meaning of maql when it serves. And the situation is upside down. So everything is upside down. You want to go from Hebron to Bethlehem, you need to take a different road. And we have roads, Israeli roads, that it's called the rounded code, streets and roads. You want to study, you can study in your city. And it's difficult to go to another city. If you go to another city, you need to stay there. You don't have access to Jerusalem. The majority of the Palestinians living in the west bank, they don't have access to go to Jerusalem. I mean the old city of Jerusalem. Although we have the international law saying that East Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine. How come? And then you look at the situation, there is ongoing settlement and the killing of the Palestinian on a daily basis. But you see the government is talking about peace and negotiation. So everything is upside down. So if you need, if you want to survive, and this is how we survive in Palestine, like we start to think up in. In this way, upside down, because we have no other solution. So I finished my university and I started working with an international organization. I worked for three years and then I said, it's nice, but it would be nicer if I managed to support creation of a local organization that can sustain itself. And I was really inspired by the idea of social business. So with a group of youth, we created an organization called epticar, which means innovation in Arabic. And we start to teach young youth, especially at the high school, the concept of social business. How you can sustain yourself, how you can learn, what do you want to do in your life. But then I had the chance to work in. In Jerusalem with an Italian organization. And that was my daily journey for two years, crossing the checkpoint from Bethlehem to Jerusalem just for going to work. And in west bank in General, there is 11 Israeli checkpoint to enter Israel, if you have the permit, and I was one of the privileged ones who got this permit to work with an international organization on a daily basis for two years. You need to wake up very early in the morning because you have the permit from 6 in the morning until 7pm in the evening, they allow you to work in Jerusalem, or what's so called in Israel, you pay taxes for them, they take even they deduct the pension from your salary, the insurance, but you don't benefit from anything.
- [10:12]
A
Sorry, just let me get that straight. You pay tax, you Pay insurance, you pay pensions, whatever other health benefits, but you don't get the benefit.
- [10:22]
C
Exactly. So they gave you the permit to work. I worked for international organization based in Jerusalem. And you have your salary at the end of the month, but they deduct from the salary taxes, as any normal Israeli citizen pension and insurance, but you don't benefit from anything. But also the crossing point, like when we call it crossing because we cross, but it's a military checkpoint because it's like entering a new country. So you have the control, you have a military control where around 50 or more than 50,000 Palestinian needs to cross every day because they cannot stay there. So every day in the morning, some people go at 3am, some people go at 6am because we need to cross and be in their work at 8am so we squeezed all together like thousands of people in the same place, same room to cross using the facial recognition, so they can check you are safe or not, even if you have the permit. And then you go out of this checkpoint and you enter to what's so called Israel. And it's the same when you go out.
- [11:42]
A
Like this is one checkpoint, is that right? All one checkpoint.
- [11:47]
C
In each city there is almost one. In the big cities there is one checkpoint. So I used to cross from Bethlehem. There are one in Ramallah and Hebron in the north of West Bank. Also I used to cross from Bethlehem because I used to live there. And the one in Bethlehem, one of the worst, because it's really, really small and many, many workers, they want to cross in the morning. So basically we have a very nice joke that if you like, if you float on the ground, you might die because it's really crowded and everyone want to cross. So that was my journey every day in the morning, two to three hours, you need to just for crossing, like crossing a door, basically, like you need to go from here to there, you spend three hours.
- [12:36]
B
And firas, was it the same case for the international workers with whom you were working?
- [12:42]
C
No, actually, like, I have my colleagues, Italian colleagues, they used to live in some of them in Bethlehem, the internationals, they have their working visa from the Israeli government, so they can cross the checkpoint with organization cars. So without check, like they check quickly and they pass. So sometimes like they cross in 10 minutes and at the same time I wait for two hours to. But we are the same people, like, we work for the same organization. So it's also like challenging for the organizations. And actually it's like they give a chance to Palestinian to work in Jerusalem, so they have access to visit the city.
- [13:32]
A
And just going back to the settlers as well and to those settlements that how did they affect you? I mean, so the settlements were surrounding the town that you were in. Did they come into the town? Did they cause trouble? Did they? Tell me something about that.
- [13:53]
C
Like in the west bank in general, the settlement, it's a system because they built their settlements surrounding the cities. So the Palestinian cities cannot be expanded because there is settlements. And the west bank is divided into area A, B and C. And this is like. It's boring, I know, but this is area C, the majority of the land where Palestinian they live there, but they don't have any control Area A, where is the Palestinian Authority control? And area B, it's in between. And basically the settlers, especially nowadays, like they keep. They used to attack on the roads, like when you go from between cities. So there is attacks by the extremist settlers by throwing rocks on the cars or killing. Because they have like law, if you kill a Palestinian, you are a hero for them. Or they started recently to enter the villages, like many of our friends who live for example in surrounding Bethlehem, in the villages or in Ramallah or in Hebron, the settlers, with the support of the Israeli soldier, they start to enter the villages, barren houses, bird cars, like destroy things, destroy the, the olive trees, just to make people like scared and leave. Because it's a systematic ethnic cleansing, you know. And now there is like around 700,000 Israeli settler, which is illegal by international law. They live there and they try to make it connected by the. By the so called Israel, the state. And just today the Knesset just announced a new law, the annexation of the southern part of Hebron to Israel.
- [15:59]
A
Formal annexation.
- [16:03]
C
By law now. And so now thousands of Palestinians who live in the southern part of the west bank, south of Hebron, we call it Massafar Yatta, they will be forced to leave because they will start attacking them again. There is ongoing attack, but now it will be escalated. At the same time there is the ongoing attack on Jenin on the north of the West Bank. So basically what is happening in the west bank nowadays is creating little gases in the West Bank.
- [16:36]
B
Kiras, if you can share with us more about creative resistance, you want to mentioned that. And I know that there are many young people in west bank working for example on eco resistance, where they try to plant trees with international volunteers, for example, in order to not allow the attackers to come in. So could you tell us more about what creative resistance means to you?
- [17:02]
C
Yeah, like nowadays we, we all talk about the genocide since October 7th. But it was happening since 75 years. And. And there is different type of genocide also. Like, because there is ecocide where they trying to eliminate the. The nature and there is culture cultural genocide where they try to like just destroy the. The touristic places and the ancient places. So basically they try to do ecocide, we try to do eco resistance or eco resilience. And I cannot really understand if they really believe that this land belonged to them, why they destroy all of the trees? What's the problem between them and the trees? Like, if it's your land, you should protect it, right? Like any normal human being. But since the 1967, more than 800,000 or even more or three was destroyed or burned. Why even in Lebanon, more than 400,000 olive tree was burned. Why? So again, we use the, what I so called Makhlouva theory upside down. So we try to do this eco resistance by planting more trees, doing events on the land. We try to make our connection with the land stronger by doing events in our lands, by doing dabki, by even making food through our vegetables and things. So this kind of activities, like it is a resilience, not only resistance, but it's a creative way of resilience.
- [18:56]
A
So which leads me straight on to this diversion, if you like a bit, is that we, the world, always when we talk about Palestine, we first and foremost, even before October 7, was, you know, Palestine, they talked about, talked about violence and conflict and oppression and division, etc. Etc. But we hear very little about the culture of Palestine, the food of Palestine, the music of Palestine, the art of Palestine. How does that thrive? Does that thrive in these conditions? And how does it thrive? And tell me something about what that means to you from the heart rather than from the head.
- [19:49]
C
Like in the weddings, for example. Some people in the weddings, like, they just. We. We do the dabka all the time. We have the Palestinian songs, the traditional ones, talking about the situation in our weddings. It should be sad songs, but we dance on these songs. Like when we have any kind of event directly, we have the Palestinian songs, the dabke or the embroideries. Now we do it in a modern way, not only the traditional way. This kind of things comes out of pain because the situation is really bad, but people have no choice. So if you cannot resist by having your country's army, we resist by our food, by raising awareness about our culture, our history. And we also promote the coexistence because it's part of our culture in the past, even before the creation of what's so called Israel? Palestinians live with Muslims, Christian and Jewish. They were living in Palestine. The majority were Palestinian, were Muslims, yes. But they were living together. Like coexistence is part of our culture. But what is happening now, having the so called Israel with their law about like it's a Jewish nation only and it's only for the Jewish people. You try to create this kind of ethnic cleansing for the, for the people who was born there, was living there. Get it?
- [21:34]
A
Yeah.
- [21:36]
B
It's funny how like the Israeli state, like they consider that they're doing this for the Jewish safety. And then you see thousands of Jews around the world fighting for a free Palestine. Like, how can this narrative really, if you combine it together, it simply doesn't work. Firas, you mentioned a lot about the Palestinian spirit. And I think that is something that really makes the Palestinians really unique in this world. Like nothing could, could kill their spirit. So as a Palestinian myself, we always say that Palestinians teach us life. I'm really curious, like in what ways do the Palestinians in the west bank teach the world life?
- [22:19]
C
For. For many years I used to have a problem with the situation because people start to feel normal to abnormal things, which drives me crazy how you can feel normal when you pass a checkpoint. It become normal to have these checkpoints in your daily life. But then I start to understand that this is our life, but this is how we, we resist. And for many years you live in your city, you are not able to communicate with people in another city in the west bank. And you don't know anything about people in Gaza because now for 17, 18 years they are isolated there. And there are 2 million Palestinians inside what's so called Israel who didn't leave. And there are more, 6 million outside in Lebanon, like Zoya, in the refugee camps in Lebanon, or in Syria and Jordan or all over the world. But we have the same tradition and we feel there is a bond between Palestinian because we share the same pain. And if you share the same pain, we try. We feel that we are very, very connected. So whenever we meet anyone, me and Zoya, we met like we don't know each other. We met in few years ago and we felt that we know each other since years. But going back to the question again, people have no choice. So they need to have this kind of resilience. And I call it advanced level of resilience. Especially in the west bank, in Gaza, in Jerusalem, like in Jerusalem, they are really crazy. Like they are under the Israeli control fully. The situation always intense in the old city of Jerusalem. I was lucky and I had the privilege for two years to have a chance to visit the city. But children in the old city, they always like playing and singing, although they can see soldiers like passing by and they might be killed by at any time, but they keep singing, dancing, living, because they know this is our land and this guy who is having the gun is a stranger. And someday they will leave like it's in our beliefs.
- [24:45]
A
When you divide people like that. I know you said they were. They're united in pain. Not only are you separated, you kept separate from other, other places in the west bank that you're kept totally separate from, from. From Gaza. I know you said you were united in pain. Does it create differences? Does it create cultural differences? Does it create differences in approach and assumptions? Have you detected any of that?
- [25:19]
C
Of course. And these are the consequences of the occupation. They try to create this kind of division. But you don't feel that there is a big division because for sure, the culture a little bit different because we have, for example, different accents. Although Palestine is very small, but we have like different accent in Gaza and the west bank, in Hebron and Bethlehem, Bethlehem and Ramallah, people inside, like the occupied territories. 48. But still we all dance dabki. We have different kind of dabke, but it is debke. We have different kind of maqlubih, but still it is for us, it's a Palestinian dish. Even the traditions in weddings, it's different between city to city, but still it is Palestinian.
- [26:15]
B
It's interesting how Firas views it from that perspective, because growing up for me as a Palestinian in Lebanon, I had a totally different perspective. I had some people telling me, like, hey, Zoya, you are not a true Palestinian because you're not struggling like those Palestinians inside of Palestine. And I grew up feeling, feeling guilty because I'm not struggling enough despite all the struggles I was struggling in the refugee camp, I thought that I'm not a true Palestinian. And I know, like, even like with the accent, my accent is also somehow mixed with the Lebanese accent. But then again, like as Firas mentioned, like when we met and we talked about our shared struggles, we understood that, hey, both of us are Palestinians. Despite. It's not like a competition between the struggles. And our pure focus needs to be on occupation rather than on what are the things that differentiate the Palestinians.
- [27:06]
A
Yeah.
- [27:06]
C
And I think that's why it's important to have your own supporting system, especially the current situation. And one example is what we do at Waves to Home with Zoya. We created The Palestinian sharing circles. When we ask Palestinians from different parts of the world to come together just to talk, just to talk about the, the. How they feared when within the current situation.
- [27:36]
A
Yeah, that's that support thing is, is.
- [27:38]
C
Is.
- [27:39]
A
Is very important, isn't it? I mean, I, I remember in my old days in South Africa how the, the exiles, the ANC exiles and the locals, you know, the people who stayed behind, there was always that feeling of, am I, Zoya said, you know, are we suffering enough? Are we not suffering enough? And it is that support, that community, where you're able just to talk about things, where you're able just to discuss and bring them out in the open, that. That stops those divisions. Can I ask a very stupid. I always ask a stupid question in the middle of these things. Every single one of them. From my observations, looking at countries or people that have been oppressed, the oppressed inevitably take on some of the behaviors and assumptions of the oppressor. Because if you think about it, that's the model they've grown up with. Objectively speaking, is that happening? Is there a danger of that happening with Palestinians?
- [28:46]
C
To be honest, I really don't know. But like in Palestine, we all agree that, that we need to reach to that point, to a free blessing. Whether you reach it by armed resistance, it's fine. If peaceful resistance, it's fine by just talking about the situation, it's fine. By raising awareness, it's totally fine. So you have different. You have your own kind of resistance. You can choose whatever you want. But we know that the end point is we will meet there. We will meet there at the end, free Palestine, and we will make maqloba together. But I can't answer your question. I really don't know.
- [29:30]
B
I think that's a great question Stephen asked, because I can relate to it. But from the perspective of a Palestinian in Lebanon, and that's how maybe you can build the connection firas with the Palestinians in Palestine. And that's where my first thought came to mind, which is decolonizing our minds because it can also be not in the forms of violence, but it is also related to the language. For example, because of the French colony in Lebanon, so many Lebanese today speak like, we consider that in the same language, we can talk in Arabic, English and French. And that's something considered like you're from a higher class if you do that. So we say, for example, hi, Keefe Sava. And in a way, we talk about the power of decolonizing our minds. So sometimes, like, the colonies come, they Bring their own cultures, their own language, and then without even us noticing, we start using them even after they leave. So maybe like is there in any form the Israeli occupation trying to not only play on an external level, but also on an internal level of the Palestinian psychology?
- [30:34]
C
Maybe like, Maybe there is two ways. First, one, for Palestinians who live inside, inside Israel, like these 2 1/2 Palestinian they are for us to learn the language. So because we need to go to schools, universities and to work so they speak their language. But what I noticed, we thought in the west bank especially like these Palestinians, they know the language, they have the Israeli citizenship, but because we forced to take it. So they try to change their mentality. But when I start meeting them, they are really connected with the Palestinian cause. Maybe they speak their own language. Yes, but they know the reality, they know the truth. They know that this village and that village is mine. This village belong to my friend's family. So I don't think so. But I can relate to the. Our government, especially after the ostro occurred.
- [31:45]
A
Because that's what I was thinking of mainly.
- [31:48]
C
Yeah, the. I. I hope it would be fine. I am outside now, so I stay outside. Yeah, no, but before the 1993. I was born in 1993, but before that, what I used to hear from my father especially that the west bank and Gaza was under the Israeli military control. So health, education, all services were provided by them and paid by them. And it's their responsibility as the occupier. But since 1993, for me, because I came from a business background, I think that the Israeli what they did, basically they did outsourcing for these services by bringing the blo, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, to deal with these Palestinians who live in the west bank and Gaza. And instead of being to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, we bring something called emergency and development and the humanitarian, and we let the international community bay to them. So it's a free outsourcing service.
- [33:06]
A
Yeah.
- [33:06]
C
At the same time, the. The Palestinian Authority, they are responsible for the security, the security of the other side, but you cannot see it on the ground. They are responsible for the education, they are responsible for the health now. So. But the mentality, especially in the last 15 years, since the division between the two big parties, Hamas and Fatah, like they took over the government and there is no election. So now a whole generation, like people under 25 or even 30 years old, they never have their democracy like activities like voting. They never vote. Even in Gaza, like these 70% or 50% of the children there, they know nothing. It was not their choice.
- [34:04]
A
Yeah. And that's, I think, what both Zoe and I were talking about, this colonization of the mind as well. And of course, itself, the plo, if you like, or the government under the PLO was allowed to develop as an outsourcer. And it's. It inevitably will become corrupted. I was thinking when you were talking about, you know, because my early years were in Africa and so much of colonized Africa became, you know, dictatorships, quote, unquote. And then people said, how could these people become dictators? Well, actually, they were living under a dictatorship for, you know, since, since the 18th and 19th centuries. They were living under a dictatorship. It was called an empire. It was either called the French Empire or the British Empire, and it was a dictatorship. So what that was the model they learned. They, of course, the colonizers outsourced a lot of that stuff as well themselves. And you know, when they became, quote, unquote, independent, that mind, that, that colonized mind remained corrupted and remained as a dictatorship, if you like. And it's taken, it's taking a long time to get rid of.
- [35:15]
B
That was a great question, actually. And I think people need to talk a lot about decolonizing the mines because we talk a lot about colonization, but we don't cover a lot and we don't put much energy on talking about decolonizing it.
- [35:30]
C
Like, this is basically why I left my job, because I had a very good job. Like, I worked for international organization, then I created a local organization, then I moved back to international organization in Jerusalem. Then I went back to work with my university, Bethlehem University. University. But at some point I felt that I am part of that system that is doing nothing. So I decided, no, let's invest more in my education. And that's why I, I said for the moment I need to stop. Because it was expected even before October, October 7, that the situation would explode at some point.
- [36:09]
A
Yeah, yeah. Now you're the, the work that you're doing and the studies you're doing now in, in, in Italy are on, on conflict specifically and in conflict in order to resolve. If you're working in conflict, you do have to work, don't you, with assumptions. And if those assumptions are colonized, you have to break through or weave through or flow through whatever way you want to look at it in order to get people together. How do you aim on using what you're learning academically and what your. And your experience in your work on conflict resolution?
- [36:58]
C
It was not easy for me, especially like I was seeing what is happening in Gaza and my professors like teaching me about international law and conflict management. But for me, in the Palestinian, Israeli context, like, I don't. Like, it's not a conflict between just two normal human beings, like a Palestinian and Israeli. No, it's not me against you. It's me and you against the occupation, against the oppression, against the genocide, against what is happening now on the ground. So this is how I look at it from that point of view. But at the same time, there is a pain inside. Like when you see people teaching you about international law, but you cannot. Like, it's not implemented like there is a life example. It's not easy, but I think that's why we need to keep learning. And it's part of our resilience, also the learning and education. And I believe that, as I mentioned, it's not me against you, it's me and you against the occupation.
- [38:13]
A
Yes, and the occupation. Actually, if you're talking about me and you or whatever, you're talking about two Israelis, Palestinians talking to Israelis, it is the occupation of both minds, isn't it? In many ways, it's the occupation of both psyches. It's not just the occupation of one. That's what I spoke about in the last episode we did together. There's that when you oppress, you dehumanize not only the oppressed, but you dehumanize yourself. And that's the tragedy. So getting a lot of conflict management or conflict resolution, I think is based or should be rooted in the humanizing of the parties, of both parties. What are your fears? What is it that you value? What is it that you care about? What is it that makes you and I human beings together that we can break through, as you put it. The oppression.
- [39:17]
C
The oppression, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [39:23]
B
And it's a chain, by the way, I was just watching a video of a Palestinian woman and she was saying, unless we are free, you are not free. So it's a chain where everyone is connected. No one is free until we are free as well. So.
- [39:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. Do you see this? Do you see this ending? Do you see this? Do you see a resolution?
- [39:52]
C
Fidas like, I'm very optimistic person. Like, very, very optimistic person. Although the current situation, there is a genocide and we see what is happening, but I don't know, I. I feel something good will will happen soon. So it could be a free Palestine, but it could be something like something good is will, will will happen soon. I'm always optimistic, especially with the. When I see these protests, especially from the young generation around the world. Because in the past it was not easy to talk about the situation when you go outside because the anti Semite, they start criticizing you. It's complicated now. It's not really complicated. It's very simple. And it becomes from a Palestinian or an Arab cause to a global movement. And everyone is supporting the Palestinian, not because they love them, because it's. They are human and it's the freedom. It's one of the like humanity, dignity, you know. So I am very optimistic with the. With the current movement all over the world. And it will make a change. So I can see that will end. I don't know when, I don't know where, but I'm very, very optimistic.
- [41:25]
B
And also in the University of Siena, you also have mentioned that you have started with the encampment as well, right?
- [41:31]
C
Like all over Italy. Not only in Italy, but in all over the world now. But in my university they do encampment in. In the university. And like, not Palestinian, Italians, they go and they sleep there just for a free Palestine. You go to Florence, you see the same. You go to Switzerland, to Geneva and to another universities, it's the same. So it's a global movement now. And this is what makes a change.
- [42:05]
A
And probably that's what answers your question. Sorry to interrupt. So that answers your question earlier on was what does the Palestinian. What was it the Palestinian way of life or the Palestinian resistance? What does it teach the world? And this has become, as you said, a global awareness, a global phenomenon. It is no longer, not even in the Middle East. It's a global thing that you're talking about here, isn't it? One last thing from you, Zoya, and then we'll hopefully end off on a happy note.
- [42:37]
B
Yes. I wanted to say, Stephen, like, if you told us two years ago when I met Firaz and we were sitting as Palestinians together, talking about our stories, talking about our shared struggles, if you came and told us, like, hey, in two years there's going to be a global movement for Palestinians, we wouldn't have believed that, to be honest. Like, no matter how hopeful we are, no matter how, like, we shout of a free Palestine. But this is something, what's happening is very big and people need to focus on that because really, if you told us and you shared this with us, the images and so on, we. We wouldn't have believed that. So this is something that's really, really, like, hopeful. Firas, also, there is this question where I know that you always ask others about their definition of a home. Now it's our turn to ask you, what is home to you?
- [43:28]
C
This was not expected.
- [43:31]
A
That's good. We like spontaneous questions.
- [43:34]
B
Yes.
- [43:37]
C
When we just talk about the world. The word home for me, for me is Palestine. For me is where I grew up. For me, where, despite the occupation, the situation, the settlement, I feel I feel safe, like in. In Palestine. And I think this is where I feel home.
- [44:02]
A
So are you saying you feel safe, your heart feels safe? Is that right? Yeah.
- [44:08]
C
So not only mentally, your heart, you feel safe. You feel like I belong to that land. So despite the fact that my families are refugees, they moved in during Nakba, I was born in Bethlehem, grew up in Hebron. I worked in different cities. I lived in different cities. I traveled a lot. But you feel you belong to that, to that land. And really, if you ask any Palestinian, they don't know why. They don't know why they love Palestine. Like, we have no answer to this question, but we feel that this is our home. Even for Zoya, that she. I think you never have been there.
- [44:49]
B
As well.
- [44:52]
C
But you. You, of course, she feels connected to.
- [44:58]
A
Yeah, it's something about when you were talking about I belong to it, there's somebody said to me quite recently, the concept of belonging with I belong with. And she was. She was saying to me, she belongs with this country, with this land, with this person, not to, but with. So it's not ownership, but it's actually, I am part of it. I am. It is where my heart is. It is where I am. I belong in it. I belong with it. Firas.
- [45:30]
C
That was.
- [45:30]
A
That was wonderful. Thank you very, very much.
- [45:32]
C
I'm.
- [45:33]
A
I feel privileged to have listened, and I. And I love your optimism, and I love your upside down. I just. I think it's wonderful. Thank you so much.
- [45:43]
C
Thank you.
- [45:43]
B
That was so beautiful. Very charismatic and very moving.
- [45:48]
A
Thank you very much.
- [45:51]
C
Sam.