Podcast Summary: Migrant Odyssey

Episode: "Our existence as Palestinians challenges a whole universe that supports the occupation"
Host: Stephen Barden
Guest: Manal Makili (Founder of Kayani, Social Worker, Youth Leader)
Date: September 9, 2024

Main Theme

This episode centers on the lived realities and inner world of Manal Makili, a Palestinian woman who grew up in a refugee camp in Beirut, Lebanon. Manal discusses her family history, the psychological impact of generational displacement, and her work empowering women and girls through her foundation, Kayani. The conversation provides a deeply personal lens on what it means to be Palestinian in exile, resilience in the face of instability, and the complexities of identity and activism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood Memories and the Symbolism of the Sea

• Earliest Memory: As a child in a crowded camp, Manal’s most vivid memory is standing on a rooftop, catching a sliver of sea through squeezed space between buildings—a potent metaphor for longing, limitation, and hope.
  • “Will I get out of this camp? Will I grow up and be something?” (01:47 - Manal)
• Significance: The sea represented peace and serenity, a stark contrast to the chaos of camp life.
  • “Maybe the thing I wanted more is just to reach the peacefulness in life… Living in peace. So that was the goal.” (03:13 - Manal)

2. Family, Displacement, and Instability

• Multi-Generational Refugee Status: Manal’s father moved between camps due to economic instability and war, experiencing repeated disruptions. Her parents’ experiences profoundly shaped her understanding of home and stability.
  • “My dad is someone who is very resilient. But he did not get the chance to process his emotions, especially the ones from childhood.” (08:06 - Manal)
• Sibling Dynamics & Parenting Styles: Close to her sisters; family unity was largely maintained by her mother’s emotional warmth.
  • “My dad is very instrumental… but my mom was the person behind, mostly behind, unifying us.” (10:26 - Manal)

3. Life in the Beirut Refugee Camp

• Misconceptions: The camp was not tents, but overcrowded, informal buildings—legally ambiguous yet not walled-in or policed by checkpoints, unlike some other camps.
  • “When I say I lived in a camp, people think that I lived in a tent… it’s overcrowded buildings that were built in an informal way.” (14:04 - Manal)

4. Education in Lebanon: Privilege, Discrimination, and Resilience

• Access to Education: She attended a private Muslim school outside the camp, made possible by her parents paying tuition; many in the camp could not access such opportunities.
• Experiences of Discrimination: Encounters with casual racism—e.g., a teacher perpetuating the stereotype that "Palestinians sold their land."
  • “As a child hearing that, you always question what is she saying?... Now we know, of course, when we grow up.” (15:45 - Manal)
• UN School Realities: Later, she moved to a UN school—a critical turn in her life:
  • Politically fraught location; frequent violence; students exposed to aggression, reinforced by the administration (“the right is with the student, not the teacher”).
  • Hopelessness among students, as legal discrimination barred Palestinians from entering 73 professions in Lebanon.
  • “You always have this narrative of, ‘Why would you work so hard? You’ll end up opening a bakery store in the camp.’” (22:00 - Manal)

5. Academic Trajectory and Adversity

• Struggles with Schooling: She felt pressure as the “less successful” sibling, compounded by emotional and mental health struggles (anorexia at 14).
  • “I feared to fail… I didn’t want to get that label.” (26:07 - Manal)
• University: Initially forced into English literature, switched to social work after volunteering experiences. Education was seen both as a route out and as a social obligation.
  • “I was emotionally drained because that’s something that did not reflect me and what I wanted. But… social work is close to community service, so that would suit me.” (28:37 - Manal)

6. Migration to Europe & Statelessness

• Barriers to Entry: Struggled to obtain a visa for Portugal; only after much advocacy and a special petition did she get a 90-day visa.
  • “Palestinians are not recognized by many European countries… so it took me a long time to get my visa.” (30:59 - Manal)
• Continued Instability: Multiple moves (Portugal, Norway, Sweden); “I have a bag… instability continues.” (31:45 - Manal)

7. Palestinian Identity: Pride and Pain

• Pride & Challenge: Holds her identity as a point of pride but underscores the immense sacrifices it entails—lack of nationality, voting rights, right to own property.
  • “Our existence is a proof of a lot of things… But it also comes with a huge pain because it has a price to be a Palestinian—and the price is not easy as you think.” (33:18 - Manal)
• Facing Western Ignorance: Encounters apathy and media bias in Europe, which undermines Palestinian narratives; values direct dialogue and humanization to shift perspectives.
  • “You challenge a whole universe… that supports the occupation… There’s a lot of ignorance. Some people don’t want to read, don’t want to change… I found that very cruel.” (35:00 - Manal)
  • “Our reality is so obvious and it’s very clear.” (36:48 - Manal)

8. Joy, Energy, and Personality

• Finding Joy: Loves outdoor activities for energy and emotional release—running, swimming, cycling—dislikes being confined.
  • “I have really huge energy that I always try to embrace… when I do outdoor activities.” (37:41 - Manal)
• Sense of Humor: Known to those close to her as silly and playful.
  • “I’m a very, very funny person… I only embrace it with those who match my energy or can handle it.” (38:32 - Manal)

9. Kayani Foundation: Empowerment at Home

• Mission: Runs Kayani, which aims to empower women and girls in the camp, with projects focused on mental health, child protection, media training, and rehabilitation of ex-prisoners.
  • “I try to bring everything that I learned to the camp… For example, we made the first mental health case management project.” (39:48 - Manal)
• Community Engagement: Passionate about ensuring young women (and men) take ownership and continue the work of community support.
  • “We still need people from the camp, like me, the young girls… ensure they continue providing support after me and them.” (41:00 - Manal)
• Resistance & Progress: Faces backlash, especially around feminist initiatives—subject to criticism from conservative/religious segments.
  • “On International Women’s Day, we had a lot of backlashes from religious groups… A lot of work… was stopped just because we are working on women empowerment.” (42:00 - Manal)
• Involving Men & Boys: Emphasizes that fighting sexism requires including men and boys—educating for empathy and equality, not antagonism.
  • “We don’t want to fight sexism with sexism… We truly believe that we have to have equal opportunities for everyone.” (44:43 - Manal)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Intergenerational Trauma:
  “My dad is someone very resilient. But he did not get the chance to process his emotions, especially the ones from childhood.” (08:06)
• On Palestinian Existence:
  “Our existence is a proof of a lot of things… It comes with a huge pain because it has a price to be a Palestinian—and the price is not easy as you think at all.” (33:18)
• On Western Apathy:
  “Some people don’t want to bother… by looking at the reality of other people… I found that very cruel.” (35:30)
• On Agency and Activism:
  “I try to bring everything that I learned to the camp in any way I can… We still need people from the camp like me, the young girls… to continue providing support after me and them.” (39:48, 41:00)
• On Resistance to Feminist Work:
  “On International Women’s Day, we had a lot of backlashes from religious groups in the camp… A lot of work was stopped just because we are working on women empowerment.” (42:00)
• On Inclusive Activism:
  “We don’t want to fight sexism with sexism… equal opportunities for everyone.” (44:43)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:47] – Manal’s childhood memory: sea as a metaphor for hope
• [04:00–05:54] – Family’s history of displacement and instability
• [10:07–10:26] – Siblings, family dynamics, and influence of parenting
• [14:04–15:09] – What living in a "camp" in Beirut meant in practice
• [15:45–18:04] – Education outside and inside the camp; experiences of bias
• [20:29–23:29] – UN school realities: violence, hopelessness, blocked aspirations
• [26:07–28:22] – Academic difficulties, mental health, family expectations
• [30:59–31:45] – Struggles getting a visa; perpetual instability in migration
• [33:18–37:22] – Pride and burdens of Palestinian identity; Western ignorance
• [37:41–38:32] – Sources of joy and humor
• [39:16–44:43] – Kayani Foundation: mission, challenges, inclusive approach

Conclusion

This episode offers a profoundly human and nuanced portrait of a young Palestinian woman navigating displacement, discrimination, and activism. Manal’s resilience, humor, vulnerability, and refusal to give up on her community—despite recurring instability—illuminate the emotional depth behind headlines and stereotypes. Her candid insights offer a window into how identity, pain, and pride can coexist, and how grassroots efforts like hers are rooted in solidarity, not just survival.

For listeners seeking to understand the ongoing, complex journey of Palestinians and the impact of forced migration on individual lives and communities, this episode is a must.