Podcast Summary: Migrant Odyssey
Episode Title: Sudan: Ethar, the lemon tree, the meandering donkey and 70 years of war
Host: Stephen Barden
Guest: Ithar
Date: October 19, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode of Migrant Odyssey explores the life of Ithar, a Sudanese woman whose childhood, family dynamics, and adulthood were intimately shaped by the waves of war, political upheaval, and remarkable resilience in Sudan. Through vivid recollections, Stephen Barden and Ithar delve into Sudan’s tortured modern history—the impact of coups, war, and displacement on daily life—and celebrate the enduring power of family, community, and grassroots change. Ithar’s journey is a moving testament to the agency and strength migrants and refugees bring, even when global systems are stacked against them.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Sudan’s Tumultuous Modern History
- Stephen provides a brief but comprehensive walk-through of Sudan’s colonial and post-independence history (00:04–09:16), highlighting:
- Colonial creation and artificial unity under British-Egyptian rule.
- Persistent power struggles among northern elites.
- South Sudan’s quest for autonomy and eventual separation.
- The devastation of the Darfur conflict and ongoing civil wars.
- How violence and political manipulation shaped society.
- The recent civil war between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the paramilitary RSF.
Quote:
“Sudan is not just about violence and coups and power struggles. It’s a place of families...of friendships across all so called divides, of huge creativity and ingenuity, of people understanding… that armed warfare...has solved nothing for their country.”
—Stephen Barden (08:34)
2. Early Life: Born in a Storm
- Ithar was literally born during a sandstorm, in the wake of an uncommon earthquake in Khartoum (09:29–10:13).
- Her father's repeated arrests due to his Communist Party affiliation marked her early childhood, creating a pervasive sense of uncertainty and fear (11:03–11:52).
- Contrastingly, her mother was part of the government, working in the Ministry of Justice—an unusual family dynamic handled with mutual respect:
Quote:
“They gave each other the freedom to see things as they think because they both have a shared goal, which is a better Sudan for all of us.”
—Ithar (15:00)
3. Seeking Safety: Life in the Village
- With her father driven into exile and her mother working in Khartoum, Ithar and her sisters grew up with their grandparents in Jazeera, a rural village (15:25–16:50).
- Ithar recalls with warmth the lessons, traditions, and practical wisdom imparted by her grandfather—a farmer and butcher—especially around food, work ethic, and care for the land (17:08–18:58).
- Her grandmother, poetic and loving, created safety and ritual with family stories and gatherings under the lemon tree.
Memorable Moment:
Ithar’s favorite memory riding the “meandering donkey,” Kajol:
“I remember him putting me on top of Kajol...me on top of Kajol, talking to my grandfather. Everything was peaceful, life was fun. And I love donkeys so much. Till this day, I love donkeys…”
—Ithar (19:12–20:35)
4. Loss and Return to Khartoum
- The death of a younger sister from preventable illness—exacerbated by Sudan’s poor infrastructure—forced the family to return to the capital, shifting their priorities towards safety and stability (21:43–24:02).
5. Challenges of Reintegration and Education
- On moving back to Khartoum, Ithar and her sisters faced prejudice and bullying at school due to assumptions about rural students (24:02–26:45).
- She overcame these challenges, excelling academically and gaining respect.
Quote:
“They just changed their attitude. No one… acknowledged that they did something wrong.”
—Ithar on her teachers after she proved herself (26:58)
- She describes standing up for her rights, including refusing collective punishments and demanding her teachers fulfill their responsibilities—even on taboo subjects like sex education (28:05–32:17).
Memorable Moment:
“...that’s your job. You’re supposed to educate me. I did not get it. You’re gonna put an effort until I understand.”
—Ithar advocating for herself in class (28:48)
6. University Years and Depoliticization
- Despite her family’s political history, her parents strictly forbade political activism at university for safety reasons (33:40–35:54).
- Majored in physics and mathematics out of curiosity and academic enjoyment.
Quote:
“They said… you can attend events… but you cannot actually practice… you cannot lead any type of political activities while in college, which from a safety perspective, at the time, it was not very safe.”
—Ithar (34:23)
7. Witnessing National Change: Sudanese Civil War and Secession
- Recalls the assassination of Southern leader John Garang and the South’s succession process—a time fraught with complexity and dislocation for mixed families and the wider population (36:15–41:24).
- Describes the difficulties of nationality, infrastructure, and the human cost of bureaucratic decisions.
Quote:
“They were not put in the heart of this… their best interest was not put in the heart of this. It took years for people to figure out their lives…”
—Ithar (40:24)
8. Grassroots Activism and Social Entrepreneurship
- After university, found fulfillment not in politics but through practical work—teaching, research, and community engagement, notably with the social enterprise Shorty (44:18–52:49).
- Shorty encouraged young Sudanese to explore and understand the diversity and struggles of their country firsthand, often staying with local families.
- Ithar initiated environmental and agricultural projects, drawing on indigenous knowledge for modern solutions (e.g., solar dehydrators).
Quote:
“If Sudan had taught me something… that original knowledge that we have as tribes, as people of the land, is the fitting things… science proves that my grandmother used to dehydrate fruits using solar energy. All I did was create a device that’s just a bit more efficient.”
—Ithar (56:04)
9. Direct Encounter with Violence: Khartoum Massacre, 2019
- Shares her harrowing experience during the June 3, 2019, massacre in Khartoum, where peaceful protesters were attacked by RSF and military forces (58:02–66:04).
- Describes narrowly surviving violence and sexual assault, and witnessing the brutality firsthand.
Most Powerful Moment:
“The guy put a gun to my head... and he did the things where you make sure there is bullets... and he was like, the girls stay. The boy is out. And at that moment, I realized… what’s going to happen to the girls who stay behind… I just did the best I could to run out of that situation.”
—Ithar (58:39–61:50)
- This experience cemented her conviction that armed struggle has only deepened Sudan’s suffering.
10. Exile, Displacement, and the Refugee Condition
- After briefly working in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, and settling in Nairobi, Ithar explores the psychological and structural challenges faced by refugees:
- Persistent sense of weakness and marginalization due to restrictive policies and barriers to work (67:21–67:57).
- Critiques global refugee systems and the harsh realities created by agreements like the EU’s Khartoum Process, which funded border security across Africa.
Quote:
“When you go to a country and you find the system is designed to make it hard for you to stay… it limits your ability to actually do something. It limits you. This is how I survived in Sudan—by doing things.”
—Ithar (67:21)
- Notes the added burdens of international racism and double standards, as seen with contrasting treatment of African and European refugees.
Quote:
“When you believe that someone worth saving, they were saved. And it was not based on merit or if the country would economically benefit from a person, it was purely based on the fact that you felt more connected to one person towards another.”
—Ithar (73:17)
- Finds hope in Sudan’s tradition of mutual aid, particularly the “emergency support rooms and community kitchens” sustaining those left behind (73:32–74:32).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)
-
On the futility of war:
“Armed warfare, no matter what ideals started them, have solved nothing for their country.”
—Stephen Barden (08:34) -
On family unity despite politics:
“They gave each other the freedom to see things as they think because they both have a shared goal, which is a better Sudan for all of us.”
—Ithar (15:00) -
On life lessons from grandparents:
“He always talked about how we should respect the food, how we should respect the soil that feeds us.”
—Ithar (17:53) -
On overcoming school prejudice:
“I was just annoyed because why would you think that? Like, wait and see. Why would you assume.”
—Ithar (24:54) -
Defiance in the classroom:
“You’re supposed to educate me. I did not get it. You’re gonna put an effort until I understand.”
—Ithar (28:48) -
On political activism and safety:
“They wanted to protect us and delay problems as much as possible to a time where we can actually handle it.”
—Ithar (34:23) -
On how secession hurt people:
“People were not put in the heart of this. Their best interest was not put in the heart of this.”
—Ithar (40:24) -
On choosing practical change over politics:
“While politics is a way to do it… holding guns to fight the situation… did not result in anything… The only example we have a result is the separation of South Sudan. And that did not end war in both countries.”
—Ithar (47:19) -
On systemic exclusion of refugees:
“The system did not allow you to work… All the countries have shown us… when a journalist said, those are white European refugees with blonde hair and blue eyes, not your North or East African refugees, those are people just like you and me… So when I look at it, it’s just racism will never end.”
—Ithar (72:20–73:17)
Important Timestamps
- Sudan’s Modern History Overview: 00:04–09:16
- Ithar’s Early Life & Family Dynamics: 09:29–15:07
- Village Memories & Grandparent Influence: 17:08–21:37
- Loss & Family’s Return to Khartoum: 21:43–24:02
- Overcoming Educational Discrimination: 24:02–28:48
- University & Political Restrictions: 32:31–35:54
- Impact of Sudanese Civil War & Secession: 36:15–41:24
- Activism & Social Entrepreneurship: 44:18–56:04
- Khartoum Massacre Firsthand Account: 58:02–66:04
- Refugee Experience & Systemic Obstacles: 67:21–74:32
Tone & Language
The episode is deeply personal, honest, and at times raw. Ithar’s voice is both reflective and assertive—she speaks with warmth about her family, and unflinching clarity about the traumas and systemic injustices she's faced. The conversation is sprinkled with gratitude amid adversity and a powerful belief that change begins at the local, human level.
Final Reflections
Stephen closes by acknowledging Ithar’s authentic strength, stating,
“You may be frustrated at the things that you can’t do, but you are… your strength is there. And I admire that so much.” (74:41)
Ithar’s journey reveals how, even when forcibly uprooted, individuals can sow hope and enrich the communities they touch—proof, as Stephen says at the very start, that migration is not a problem, but “part of what makes us human.”
For more stories of displacement and belonging, listeners are encouraged to visit Waves to Home.