156. Stephen Colbert Returns: A Gift from the Comedy Gods

Summary

Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out: Episode 156 – Stephen Colbert Returns: A Gift from the Comedy Gods

Release Date: January 13, 2025

In this compelling episode of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out, comedian Mike Birbiglia welcomes the iconic Stephen Colbert to dissect the intricacies of comedy, improv, and the delicate balance of hosting a late-night talk show. Their candid conversation delves deep into personal experiences, creative processes, and the profound connections that shape their comedic journeys.

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1. Improv Roots and Mentorship

Stephen Colbert opens the discussion by reflecting on his early days in improv:

"[00:00] Stephen Colbert: My first person I like, studied in improv with was Del Close. [...] your job is to open up all the stops on the organ."

Del Close, a legendary figure in the improv community, profoundly influenced Colbert's approach. Stephen emphasizes the philosophy of letting the "universe channel through you," highlighting the spiritual and almost ritualistic aspects of performing.

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2. Balancing Hosting and Creativity

Transitioning to his role as a talk show host, Stephen Colbert shares insights into managing the multifaceted responsibilities of hosting:

"[07:58] Stephen Colbert: There's the writing job, there's a producing job, and then there's kind of the show business job..."

Stephen discusses the relentless pace of decision-making on set, likening his daily tasks to "making like maybe 15 decisions an hour." This constant stream of choices requires a disciplined approach to maintain the show's quality and cohesiveness.

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3. The Essence of Connecting with the Audience

A significant portion of their conversation centers on the importance of authentic connection with the audience:

"[22:03] Stephen Colbert: And now I'm doing the show for the room, and the camera there captures it. So it's different vibe."

Stephen emphasizes that beyond the scripted jokes and performances, the genuine interaction and community-building with the audience are paramount. This connection transforms a series of jokes into a shared experience, fostering a sense of communion between the performer and the viewers.

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4. Personal Anecdotes and Emotional Depth

Both comedians open up about their personal lives, exploring how emotions influence their comedy:

"[28:21] Stephen Colbert: Is there a song that doesn't make me cry? [...] I'm not a crying person."

Stephen reveals his vulnerability, discussing how certain songs evoke deep emotional responses tied to his past and personal losses. This introspection showcases the profound ways in which personal experiences shape comedic material.

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5. Navigating Religious Themes in Comedy

The conversation takes a thoughtful turn as they explore the intersection of religion and humor:

"[43:05] Stephen Colbert: Divine wisdom practiced your art for none other than God himself."

Stephen recounts an interaction with the Pope, highlighting the humorous yet respectful contemplation of making light of divine subjects. He draws parallels between religious teachings and his own comedic philosophies, illustrating how faith and comedy can coexist thoughtfully.

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6. The Art and Challenges of Improv Collaborations

Mike and Stephen discuss the dynamic nature of improvisation and collaborative performances:

"[26:06] Stephen Colbert: Right. doing object work and scene work and characters."

They delve into the spontaneity of improv, emphasizing the importance of listening and building upon each other's cues. This segment underscores the delicate balance between planning and spontaneity inherent in successful improvisational comedy.

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7. Charitable Endeavors and Giving Back

Concluding their conversation, Stephen Colbert and Mike Birbiglia highlight the significance of supporting meaningful causes:

"[45:55] Stephen Colbert: I'm such an enormous fan of what Jose Andres and World Central Kitchen is doing..."

They discuss their commitment to charities like World Central Kitchen and Radio Lollipop, emphasizing the role of comedians in leveraging their platforms for positive social impact. This segment serves as a heartfelt reminder of the responsibility that comes with influence and visibility.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Stephen Colbert on Del Close's influence:
  "[00:00] Stephen Colbert: [...] your job is to open up all the stops on the organ."

• Stephen Colbert on decision-making as a host:
  "[03:46] Stephen Colbert: [...] I don't have a permanent guest host. No."

• Stephen Colbert on emotional connections in comedy:
  "[22:03] Stephen Colbert: [...] we are a shadow of the news."

• Stephen Colbert on the Pope and comedy:
  "[43:05] Stephen Colbert: Divine wisdom practiced your art for none other than God himself."

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Conclusion

Episode 156 of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out offers listeners an intimate glimpse into Stephen Colbert’s world, blending humor with heartfelt revelations. Their dialogue not only underscores the challenges and triumphs of crafting comedy but also celebrates the deeper connections that make their work resonate. For those seeking inspiration or a deeper understanding of the comedic craft, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and genuine camaraderie.

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Tune in to Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out for more enlightening conversations with your favorite comedians and creators, as they work out original material and tackle both tried-and-true and uncomfortable topics.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

My first person I like, studied in improv with was Del Close. And a lot of people had a guru relationship to him or some people. Not a lot, but some people did. I never did. I might not have. Probably when I was younger, I was too emotionally distant to actually allow myself to join the cult, if you know what I mean. And also too much of a skeptic to get involved in the culture. Some part of myself, the part whose father died when he was young, was like, you be my daddy. It was, I'm sure in there, but I never acted on it. It. That's a fitting aside to say. He used to say, you're not improvising. You're just letting the universe channel through you. If you just open up all your senses, that's it. Your job is to open up all the stops on the organ.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's it.

[Stephen Colbert]

And so that you. So it can just flow through you. And he would take out his little pentagram and put it on his chest before he performed because he said the stage was a sacred space.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it is. I mean, showstoppers. Stephen Colbert throwing showstopping pitches all day. That is the voice of the great Stephen Colbert. Stephen Colbert. Come on. This podcast has everybody. We feel very lucky to have Stephen today in the studio. We had him remotely a few years back and it was one of our favorite episodes of all time. And we were so excited to have him in the studio. What can you say about this legend of a man? He has made some of my favorite comedy of all time. He and I also were among the comedians who visited the Vatican last year. So we talk about that. We talked about it with David Sedaris on the podcast a few weeks ago. So check out that if you haven't heard it. So excited for this episode today. And thanks everybody who came out to my shows at the Englert Theater in Iowa City this past weekend. I had such a great time. We have a big announcement today. We added a fifth show. Count em five New York City shows. The show is called the Good Life. It is at the Beacon Theater in New York City. It is the finale March 16th, 6pm Tickets are on sale today, Monday, January 13th at 10am Eastern. Get the tickets now on Burbigs.com before I do my shows at the Beacon Theater in New York. I'm going to be doing some shows in Northampton and Burlington, Vermont. As a matter of fact, I just added three shows in West Palm Beach, Florida. I performed at the Kravis center in November. The tickets went really fast, so we added three more shows in February. It is February 13, 14, 15. It's the Pearson Playhouse, which is at the Kravis center for the Performing Arts. Those shows are going to be so fun. And I have a great chat today with Stephen Colbert. Obviously, Stephen's known as the host of the Late show with Stephen Colbert and the Colbert Report. But of course, Chicago Improv is a legend of Chicago Improv and Second City. We talk about that a lot today. We talk about why improv is such a creatively satisfying experience. I even tried to convince Stephen to come and improvise with me and my friends from the group. Please don't destroy. Will Steven come and improvise with us? Find out today. Enjoy my chat with the great Stephen Colbert. Okay, so how do I interview you best? What's the best. What's the best you are being. You're an expert interviewer.

[Stephen Colbert]

How would you come out if I'm an expert interviewer. But I do like talk. I do like talking to people on the show sometimes. Actually, that's my favorite part of the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Show, just talking to people.

[Stephen Colbert]

Often it's my favorite part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I like about your show so much, is that you. It does feel like real conversations with real people.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wanted to be. I wanted to be a talk show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I think what people respond to, I mean, hopefully my what. Because what I like is that just two real people really having a conversation. That organic nature of it has got something kind of ineffable that I don't think an audience would be able to define. But you just know when we're really talking and having fun.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

So I don't know how to interview. I don't know how to interview me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm. I'm.

[Stephen Colbert]

My life's an open book. Book. Generally speaking, I don't got nothing to hide.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, you know, dirtiest, you know, so much stuff is like, you, I have a good memory, you have good memory.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not that smart. People think I'm smart, but they usually mistake intelligence for a good memory.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, but you. Yeah, but you have good memory. Going to walk you back on this one.

[Stephen Colbert]

I have a reference level that people associate with being smart, but that's not. Evie, my wife is much smarter than I am. John Stewart, much smarter than I am. Paul Danello, much smarter than I am. Because I think they're clearer thinkers. And I think when I think of intelligence, I think of a ability to analyze a situation and then have clarity in your response to it. You know, like, I think Paul's much Better at, like, directing or putting together a running order or something like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I have. I have, again, I have this memory that seems like I'm smart. In fact, I can just memorize anything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's crazy because that attracts that your background is an improv. Because I think improv is so much about just associations, quick associations. This to this, to this to this, and then next scene.

[Stephen Colbert]

Paying attention to, like, paying attention so that you can make those associations.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, I don't have a lot of computing power. I have a lot of desktop memory. So I can. I can refer to things very quickly and I can pay attention and keep a lot of stuff in my. I can memorize strings of numbers and shit like that. When that. That is sort of a synecdoche for being able to keep a lot of stuff in your mind or absorb a lot of stuff when you're improvising and then spit it back out when it's fitting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, or it'll be useful or something like that. But that's not the same thing as, like, having computing power.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow, that's interesting because I was telling.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I'm a huge fan of me. I'm like, this is not. This is not me. I'm not dumping on me when I say this. I just think that it would. I'd be deluding myself if I thought I was as smart as my wife.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really interesting because I've never won.

[Stephen Colbert]

An argument with her.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Stephen Colbert]

Because she sees it more clearly than I do. And I have to admit, like. Oh, no, you actually.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She sees the zoom out more clearly. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And also the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The grand and the granular.

[Stephen Colbert]

Everything. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, what's it. What's a typical argument that you'll have with your wife? What do you argue over? What's the argument that happens again and again.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's been so long since we've had a real argument. Yeah. I mean, just planning the day would be an argument for me because I refuse to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Stephen Colbert]

Matter of fact, we were just doing another interview. She and I have a cookbook, and we were doing Terry Gross. Thud. And I mean, not to flex on you, but I just did Terry Gross. And on the way there, she wanted to plan, like, what the weekend was gonna be. I'm like, mm, mm. No, I'd like to just enjoy myself in the half hour before I go on with Terry, because I wanna be relaxed and happy before I go on. And nothing makes me more tense and anxious than planning.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting. Yeah, that makes sense. Are you able to do that with your life? You host a talk show. This. When they turn on the cameras.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm lucky. It turns out like nobody's business. I am someone who lucked into having an enormous team of people who push me in the right direction at every moment of the day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Someone tuck you in a room half hour before to give you time to think of nothing.

[Stephen Colbert]

Kind of. I mean, I have to shower and shave and dress.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And that takes about a half an hour.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I put on a little music in the shower.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I listen to a little music and I shower and I take my time. Shave and everything like that. And that lets. That brings the blood. The blood pressure down a little bit from the day of writing and producing, which is a totally other level.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a whole other job. Exactly.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's the writing job, there's a producing job, and then there's kind of the show business job, like dealing with the network or staff management and stuff like that, which is not as a huge part of my job, but it's not no part of my job. But as. As. As our business goes, there are a lot more chaotic ways to live than what I live. Because I know where I'm gonna be, right. I'm gonna be at, you know, 1697 Broadway at the Ed Sullivan Theater. And I know what time I'm gonna be in there in the morning. And I know what time my first meeting is and my second meeting is. And I know what I do exactly after that and which turn I could do with my sleep. And this is what the day. The days get laid out and is packed like peanuts in a Snickers bar.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I don't have to be organized. The show is a matrix that gets pressed over the play. D'oh. Like flesh of my brain. And it cuts my attention. It cuts my attention into all these little boxes. And I just have to stay upright and get to the next thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really taking the romance out of this. You know, Mike Nichols had a thing. I'm a huge Mike Nichols fan. He had this thing which is he never wanted to be an actor because he didn't want to be a baby. His whole thing was like, actors get treated like babies. They're placed here. They're placed here. The place. They're a child. And that always made sense to me because I was like, yeah, that's. That. That's by design. Because if they don't have the actor in the place that they have them in. Sure. Then they're losing money by the Second.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, you know, you're the child in your whole thing. Well, you've made me think of so many different things by first of all, quoting Mike Nichols. But one of my favorite Mike Nichols quotes was from the book Something Wonderful right away, which is sort of the first and still one of the best books about the Compass and early Second City in Chicago improv theater. Is that one of. I believe one of the chapter titles is, if you were alive, would you laugh at this? And it was. I think he's talking to Paul shepherd, and I think it's Nichols talking to Shepard. And they watch one of the original Compass players, and they're watching this rehearsal over and over and over and over and over and over. And Nichols turns to Shepard and goes, if you were alive, would you laugh at this? And that's how it feels sometimes after you've worked on a piece of comedy for forever and ever and ever, you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No longer stick to it.

[Stephen Colbert]

You no longer have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If you were alive, would you laugh at this point?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, there's no longer a spark or frison there. It's hard to recapture that. That's why it's difficult to re. Improvise something, because you're in to what was organically special about it the first time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, absolutely.

[Stephen Colbert]

But so the second thing is you just said baby. You know, actors are babies.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Jon Stewart and I have had many conversations about this, and he puts it in a beautiful way. And he said the hard thing to understand for you as the person who's on camera, but also for the staff, and it can be frustrating for the people who around you is that it's necessary that you be bothered, the daddy and the baby at the same time. Cause daddy gets to say, we're having steak, but you have to cut up the steak so the baby doesn't choke on it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And so that's a lot of the day, is that you get to make a lot of global decisions about what the direction of the show might be on any given day. And now it's everybody else's job to make sure that you. The person who has to go, has the privilege and the. You know, the opportunity to go present that and the responsibility to present whatever you guys did together today out in the world doesn't choke on the ambition of the guy who made the decision.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh. That's. That is very well put.

[Stephen Colbert]

Jon Stewart often does that. That is what I found. That is what I found. That's why I said, he's smarter than I am.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, that's that's, that's kind of the truism of a lot of these companies. Like, you know, Steve Jobs with Apple, for example. Like, there was a period of time where he wasn't, he wasn't there anymore. And people were like, what the hell is this company? And they have to figure out, like, who's that? You know, now it's Cook or whatever. Whoever. Tim Cook. Now it's Tim Cook. But it's like, but for a period of time, there's like they had nobody who was that. But it's like that's your, that you're the daddy and the baby.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Same at your show.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And if you weren't, no one would be. There's nobody, there's no one who's going to fill in for your job. You don't have a, you don't have a, the fill in.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't have a permanent guest host. No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, you don't have a guest house.

[Stephen Colbert]

No one did that for a long time until Kimmel started doing it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because he wanted to take the summers off.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was, it's funny you should say that about Kimmel, because I, I, I sat in for Camel when he had Covid. And it is a certain type of life that you guys have. It's really packed for, like, so much of the day, and then it's wide open after that. You know, you can let it go.

[Stephen Colbert]

On a daily basis. You can actually. Yeah, you can unplug. You kind of have to unplug because the day is so intense. There's so many decisions. And as my executive producer Tom Purcell says, when it comes to all these decisions that you're making, like, you're making like maybe 15 an hour that you can't go back on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And he says, do not, do not reverse severe tire damage is, is, is the sign over Tom's head. In other words, we made a decision. Let's live with that decision and move forward.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Interesting.

[Stephen Colbert]

We don't, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Reverse, tight. Don't, don't go backwards on those spikes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. By the way, it's thin ice. And by thin ice, we mean at certain points on the pond, the ice is much thinner and it would be dangerous for you to skate there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wait, I have a question. Do you, did you ever meet Mike Decals?

[Stephen Colbert]

I did. I did. I was at the Kennedy Center Honors, and it was whatever year Meryl Streep was being honored because she was there being honored. And I'd interviewed her before, and I walked by her table just to say hi and I didn't know she was sitting next to Mike Nichols. Cause his back was to me. And she said, oh, Stephen. Oh, Mike wants to meet you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh. Come on.

[Stephen Colbert]

And he turned around and goes, oh, hello. And he started talking to me about some of the work we were doing at the Colbert.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I remember the whole time he was talking, going, remember this? Remember this? Remember this. Listen to what he's saying. Don't forget what he's saying. Hear what he's saying. You'll never hear this again. What is he saying? Enjoy this. Enjoy this. I have no memory of a single other than. Oh, Stephen. That's all I remember of the entire thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What happened to your memory?

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't know. I don't know. That's just it. I can remember anything you can tell me, like a phone number three years ago, and I can tell you, but.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I could not remember because it was so meaningfully. Because you're just a big Mike Nichols fan.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Come on. Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you ever meet Elaine May?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, I've never met Elaine May. I'd like to, though.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I bet she wants to meet you.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't know about that. I don't never. I never assume any of that stuff. I'll tell you the. I'll tell you how bad I am at assuming anybody wants to meet me. Is that the beginning of the Colbert Report? In the first six months, I think I was on the Time 100, and I'm at the Time 100 dinner at Columbus Circle.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Top 100 people ranked in the world according to intelligence.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly, exactly. Just briefing listeners, ranked according to memory. And so I'm there, and a woman comes over and says, I'm here with George Lucas. And I saw George across the room. I could see him. And she pointed, and I said, oh, hi. Nice to meet you. And she said, george would like to meet you. And I said, george, who?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of course, because it.

[Stephen Colbert]

You can't even imagine. I could not imagine that that was the George that I was looking at, was the guy who wanted to meet me. And so I went, said hi to George again. Don't remember it. Don't remember.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do not remember it.

[Stephen Colbert]

I remember saying hi, but I don't remember.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is a breaking story. This is breaking news. You have an extraordinary memory. You blank out, essentially. Compliments and people who you admire.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you'll forget this whole interview, every word locked away.

[Stephen Colbert]

When I got the Late show, the first person to call me was Letterman. And he called me immediately, and he was a lovely conversation. And I took Notes. Because I knew I wouldn't remember. I knew I would. I knew I'd. I knew it was so difficult for me. And I talked to Dave a bunch and.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And. And he. He had always been very gracious to me, and we'd always had a good time. I'd been on a show 10 times, and though every time was a big deal for me. Yeah. I always. It was very important to do a good job.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. Are you kidding me?

[Stephen Colbert]

And so. But I. But I was taking, like, little, like, kind of like shorthand notes as we were talking. Just like, subject areas. Just like. Like that. And then he was very gracious, and. And I hung up the phone and I. And I wrote out everything I could remember of those subjects. And then I gave it to my sister. I said, would you please type this up? And then just put it in a file for me. So I have it. I've never looked at it, but I have it someplace to go look at.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you ever feel the ghosts of the Ed Sullivan Theater? I mean, the Beatles and, you know.

[Stephen Colbert]

No. I mean, I. It's an honor to be in that space. And I. I love that we've restored it to a theater. I don't know if you remember what it used to be like. Much more like a TV studio.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I can understand that, because comedy compression is nice to keep the space tight. Feels good for me, at least for a TV comedy. But I really wanted to change the way I did my show. The Colbert rapport was very much for the camera because that's the model that I was. I was aping. Was for the camera, and the present audience in the room got to see me do the show for the camera.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Now I'm doing the show for the room, and the camera there captures it. So it's different vibe. And I wanted that to change me as a performer because I didn't really know what I was stepping into. And so I had to make. That was one strong decision I wanted to make. The beginning is that I want to play to the room. And I started off as a live improvisational, like, sketch comedian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And. And I love a room. I love a live theater.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And so I often drink in the room. I often like in. Like in those. If you're, you know, if you're lucky enough to have a real rolling audience in that night, you've got free time between jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, and. And I'm not just thinking about what the rhythm is for the next attack, you know, like, for the next beat or especially if we're changing subjects, I'll take a moment and literally look around this beautiful theater I'm in with these gorgeous digital projections and stained glass built by Hammerstein in 1927, and that beautiful band over there, and my dear friends who I've worked with, some of them for almost 20 years, some of them I've known for, like, 35 years, who were there. And I just even, like, literally in between jokes, I go, God, what a lucky guy I am to have this moment. And that comes to me more, of course, when the show's going great.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

And then when the show's not going great or you haven't been able to hook up your jumper cables to the audience, which is how I think about it. Beautiful. So there's, like. There's a flow of current back and forth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let's hit that and hover.

[Stephen Colbert]

Jumper cables?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wanna stay here for a second?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's just a great metaphor, right?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. I want to hook up the jumper cables.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We talk about that with jokes all the time. Here is this idea of like. Of, like, most of the time with jokes, what you have in your mind is pretty funny. It's just a matter of, like, what you're saying. Hooking up the jumper cable, that sometimes is the hard part.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. Well, there has to be another way that we talk about it. Sometimes is that I'm the pitcher and the audience is the catcher. And I've gotta do something fairly early on in the monologue to let them know what kind of pitches I'm throwing. Wow. I've gotta let them know, are these all gonna be fastballs or am I just. Or are we just playing catch? Do you know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, we're done here. We're done.

[Stephen Colbert]

Are you a baseball man?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I'm just saying, like, that's exactly it. I don't even have to talk about. That's exactly. You're exactly right.

[Stephen Colbert]

And sometimes. Sometimes after the show's over, and it felt like I had to. I had to fight the urge to muscle the audience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Which is exactly the wrong thing to do, which is to muscle the audience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, paradoxically, somehow, when. When you want to tighten up and muscle the audience because you feel like you're. You haven't made that connection. You want to kind of like drag them to the field where you want to dance. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mixing metaphors, but sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. But you. I mean, baseball field.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't know why I'm dancing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Dancing yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But where you want to play catch, you want to drag them to the. Where you want to play catch is that oddly, you actually have to relax.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You actually have to get looser. And that'll allow you to be aware of what their vibrational state is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that's what you, you. You and I talked about this on our, on this podcast last time, which is. It took you years to get to that point like you used to be when you were in Second City Touring company and stuff like that. You'd be so nervous.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, yeah. And I would. I would try to muscle every moment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And often when the show's over, Tom and I will have a. There's a post mortem for like, a lot of the editorial level staff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But it's always just me and Tom Purcell, my exec, for a few minutes after everybody's left, we just sit there and go, what'd you think? Whatever. We'll have that moment. And if there was that urge to muscle, we'll realize, oh, we didn't tell them the way we were gonna pitch or we didn't set an emotional tone off the top. And I'm not, I'm not talking about, like, you know, these shows are not confessions.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like, authenticity is not confession.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's not the same thing. But it is important to signal to the audience in some way where you coming from.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

Otherwise you're just reading jokes off a page.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

And, like, might as well go out there. Like, it's like, I'm not going to play an instrument. I'm just going to read sheet music to you. It's not the same thing. Like, technically you're doing jokes, but you're not. I'm not. I mean, I used to say what we do for a living is we harvest laughter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

We go, we plant ideas and then we get the laughter from planting that idea, like the setup and the joke, and then you harvest it. And that's why everybody in the building is so important to getting that harvest to market of the show. Like, all the technical aspects of the show are. So they're just as important. Or else why did we grow all this laughter?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I think that's a little off, actually. Now I really am there to be with the audience and that it's really there for community. Because the show can be great even if it isn't. Great's a strong word. It can be a really good show, even if it's not pound for pound, the funniest show we've done. If I really feel that connection with the audience, and that's really about community, like, they. They. And boy, that's such a vague word, community. But I don't have another. I don't have a bet. Communion. We are in communion with each other.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. And therein lies, like, what? It took me years to understand that as a comedian. That. Oh, no, it's actually just about connecting to the people right in front of you. And that's the whole thing. And that's what everything.

[Stephen Colbert]

And you have to add to that the craft you've put into being able to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, of course. You have to do the thing well enough that you can make the connection. Yeah. And that there's a reason even to. To be communicating. But. Or something to say. But it is similar to being a pastor, being a teacher, anything where you're connecting a group of people, stand up, hosting a talk show. It's all of the same kind of energy. Support for working it out comes from Helix. I love my Helix mattress. I've had it for maybe four or five years now. If I could build a time machine, the first thing I would do is go back in time and deliver a Helix mattress to myself. Back when I was sleeping on an air mattress in Queens. That's. It's true. I would have prevented a lot of back pain, a lot of sleepless nights, a lot of proximity to rats if I had a time machine. Actually, I'd try to prevent some major disasters, but also I would get a Helix mattress. Be careful. You can really go down a rabbit hole when shopping for a new mattress. Save yourself the time, save yourself the stress. Go with Helix. You won't be disappointed. Go to helixsleep.comburbigs for up to 25% off. Whoa. Plus two free pillows. That's helixsleep.comburbigS for up to 25% off, plus two free pillows. Helixsleep.comburbigs when the please don't destroy guys from SNL came on this podcast, we were like, let's do something. And then recently, we just started doing improv at ucb. We do one day a month. Did you come improvise or you. You don't. Are you done with it?

[Stephen Colbert]

I love it. I mean, I would like to improvise someplace where no one knows who I am, and I don't want to have anyone's expectations of what I'm going to do. I just want to go improvise.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We always say that to the audience members. We come out short notice. We do like, 24 hours notice. It's 100 and something people in the room. It's a black box. And we just go like. We don't do this a lot. We don't improvise a lot. And so whatever happens tonight, if you write it on social media, just write. It was the best improv show we've ever seen. And they do. It's a running joke with the audience.

[Stephen Colbert]

So who's doing it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's me and the Please Don't Destroy guys, which is Ben Marshall and John Higgins and Martin Herlihy.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I've known John Higgins since he was about 4. We grew up down with our.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, we were taught him Sunday school. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Stephen Colbert]

So that's what the problem.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You got to come play with us, though. It's. It's. We die laughing. I mean, we are.

[Stephen Colbert]

I would love it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Breaking in every scene.

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean, there's nothing better. Yeah, absolutely nothing better. I mean, admittedly, it's been a long time, and I think there's an athleticism to it that you. You can lose your backhand.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I agree. But. But you have been. You improvise every day.

[Stephen Colbert]

The guests improvised and sometimes, like, things come here and there, but that's more like riffing. That's not the same thing as improvising.

[Mike Birbiglia]

As doing object work and scene work and characters.

[Stephen Colbert]

Right. I mean, the guest is close to improvising because you're having to listen and, you know, add to and draw out from the other person, and the other person's the person on stage and stuff like that. All. That's all that's really key, and that helps with that. At. At. At best. At best, the conversation has nothing to do with the card. It's just what's going on with that person. And the best ones, I've never. I never look at it, and you can't believe that the time flew the way it did. But I mean, creating scenes like, that's a great thing when you walk off stage and you have no idea why it was good as it was, and you don't know whose idea was what. That's the key. When you walk off and go, like, that was great. Whose idea was that? Or people might ask. And we'll go, no idea.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. And it's kind of what's beautiful about improv. It's kind of no one's idea. It's kind of taking from the. The universe and spitting it out.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, that's my first. First person I like, studied in improv with was Dell. Close And a lot of people had a guru relationship to him. Some people, not a lot, but some people did. I never did. I might not have, like. Like, deserved it, but I also don't get guru with people. You know what I mean? Like, I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You don't take to mentors that way.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, I. I probably. When I was younger, I was too emotionally distant to actually allow myself to join the cult. You know what I mean? And also too much of a skeptic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

To get involved in the culture. Some part of myself, the part whose father died when he was young, was like, you be my daddy. It was, I'm sure, in there, but I never. Never acted on it. That's a weird aside to say, or rather a fitting aside to say. He used to say, you're not improvising. You're just letting the universe channel through you. If you just open up all your senses, that's it. Your job is to open up all the stops on the organ.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's it.

[Stephen Colbert]

And so that you. So it can just flow through you. And he would take out his little pentagram and put it on his chest before he performed because he said the stage was a sacred space.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it is. I mean, showstoppers, Stephen Colbert throwing showstopping pitches all day. All right, so this is the. This is a slow round. What is. Do you have a song that makes you cry?

[Stephen Colbert]

Is there a song that doesn't make me cry? I will, like, you know, when I was a kid, you know, Cat's Cradle, you know, Harry Chapin, in an absolute second.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Because it just brings up parents, child.

[Stephen Colbert]

Relationship, dead dad, you know that. Dead dad. I remember, like, it came out in 74, I think, or 75. My parents. I mean, my dad. My brothers died in 1974, so there's that. But, I mean, my kids, they'll go. They'll turn everybody, like, oh, my God, is he crying? And here's what I find about crying. This is what I find about crying, is that I've given in to the fact that I cry. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Like, I try to, like, okay, fine. And it's just like, a source. Like. Like any of them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You weren't a crying person.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, No. I mean, kind of. Aren't you, like, taught to not do that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

You're taught, especially as a man, you're not supposed to cry.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And. And so I was very good at, like, closing the door and, like, punching a wall instead.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And it's like I closed the door and cried. I closed the door and then also didn't cry. But at least the struggle I would do privately.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

And. But what was great is having kids. And, like, if I would be talking about something that would. Getting me close, like, where I have to take a breath and, like, look into the distance and try to think about, like, the stitch pattern on that curtain so I could think about something other than crying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean, like, I would. I would place my focus on something else in order to. To maintain.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Absolutely.

[Stephen Colbert]

But my kids quickly figured out all those games.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Stephen Colbert]

And so. Or, like, what my silence would mean. And so even, like, when they were pretty young, they would, like, crawl, like, they would, like, come around me and go, is he gonna cry?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God, is he gonna cry?

[Stephen Colbert]

And that would just make me laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So funny.

[Stephen Colbert]

That would just make me laugh. That they would.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

That they would tag me like that. But I came to a realization not that long ago that the thing I'm crying about is not. It's not. Cause I'm sad as I'm crying. Because it tends to be something I'm talking about is so beautiful.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Despite how sad the world is. And there's that tension between the beautiful thing. And. It really occurred to me when I was in Saint Remy de Provence a couple summers ago. We went to the institution where Van Gogh ended his life, or he spent the end of his life there. And he painted many beautiful things while he was in Provence, in St. Remy de Provence. And I think one of the things he painted there was Starry Night. And I come around a corner, they got reproductions of everything that he did there. And I came around the corner and there was Starry Night. And I burst into tears when I saw it. And what the hell is that about? Why are you crying? Because you looked at Starry Night. Now what I've done is you've taken like, a. Several kilometer. And I'm gonna say kilometer. Cause we're talk. Talking about France here. Don't get on me, American.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I respect that.

[Stephen Colbert]

A couple of kilometer walk through San Remedu, Provence, to the. The institution, which was run, I think, by the. The Sisters of Charity or something. And you're reading along the way these plaques about what was his life like and what was his brother Theo doing for him and why did he end up here and stuff like that. And you. And the last thing you end up. You go through the gates and this beautiful. I'm sure, was kind of bleak at the time, but a very beautiful place. And I saw Starry Night, and I burst into tears. And I went, oh, that's what it is. It suddenly came to his revelation is that the thing that revelation is, the thing that actually makes me cry is something beautiful, not something sad. And that. That's the commonality is when I'm trying to quote a song, for instance, and often when I'm trying to quote a song or quote a poem or something like that, it'll. It'll tap me on the shoulder and punch me in the face. And I didn't expect it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because I was. I've caught. I'm caught short by something beautiful.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And the tension between, you know, the saddened, how sad or tragic the world can be and this beautiful thing that exists despite that or maybe even because of it, that comes out of it. There's an ecstatic tension between those two points.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And. And the energy has to be released some way. And. And for me, it's crying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

So, yeah. Sometimes I cry at songs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So. Next lower on question, what's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used?

[Stephen Colbert]

Check to make sure the plug is in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great one.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because I like to boat. I like to go out on the water.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Make sure before you put that boat in, the plug is in. Because there's a plug to drain. Often, if it's not a huge boat, there'll literally be a plug you have to take out to drain the boat in case you had water come tunnels. And so you got. You got water in your boat. So you pull the plug at the end of the day, especially when you're cleaning it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Or else the boat will fill up with the water that you're cleaning the boat with. But you have that. You have to remember to put that plug back in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

And. And that's a metaphor for a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is that before you do the obvious thing. Yeah. Do this. Make sure you've done the small, simple. Yeah, the small, simple, obvious thing. That is so small and simple.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

That.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

For instance, did you learn your lines.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

For this. This show that you've been cast in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Stephen Colbert]

I literally have shown up things and went, oh, I didn't learn my lines.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I was very excited about doing the part. I have an idea for the character.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I went, oh, right. I've been working in front of prompter for 20 years. I have to learn my lines.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Which is so basic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, that's what is inside the actor studio with Al Pacino once. And they go, what's your best advice for young Actors know your lines? Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

They're used backstage at Second City. There used to be all this, you know, things that people said that somebody thought was worth remembering that was written on the back wall of Second City. Unfortunately, they got, they renovated and somebody accidentally painted over a lot of it because it was like, you know, it was 50 years of advice from some of the best comedians, you know, and. But one of the things that I remember, which I don't know if it's still there, if it got painted over, but it said the shortest distance between two points is learn your line.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Ah, that's good. Yeah, I like that. What is the thing, people? What's your people's favorite and least favorite thing about you?

[Stephen Colbert]

People that I know or people you know? People I don't know? People that I know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, I think I'm an okay listener. I think I'll. I'll sit and I. I want to hear how you are. And I mean it for the most part. I mean, I don't mean. I don't ever mean it, but I try to take the time to actually know how you are, I suppose. And. And it's cool if we cry together. Oh, you know, that's. I'm fine with that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sweet.

[Stephen Colbert]

I think the people least like about me, I would say that probably people who watch the show or watch the work that I do probably think I'm a little big for my pants. Making jokes about subjects that they would probably. Why don't you shut up and make jokes? Like, I think that might be that, like a little like, you know, aren't you a little self important to make jokes about democracy or whatever. Whatever. And, and that's a valid response. I got nothing to say about that. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I don't have some special insight to any of this stuff. It's just. That's the conversation that's going on right now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

Like that has been the conversation for a decade now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

And we are a shadow of the news. And so if that's what people are talking about all day, that's the raw material for the jokes. At the end of the day, because we're talking about the national conversation. I'd like to not talk about that stuff. So I don't have a problem with it. And if, and if people don't like that, I don't, I don't like that. I don't like that they don't like that. You know what I mean? But it's not kind of My job, it's not my problem because I'm doing my job.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's such an interesting.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I can understand why they wouldn't. I don't, I don't have a problem with people disliking that. That's totally a valid response.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I follow that. I always marvel at this, this bygone era that people talk about of like Johnny Carson hosting the Tonight show in the 80s when I was growing up and not mentioning politics because it feels like to, as a comedian you're talking, you have to talk about what's happening to acknowledge the humor.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I'll say this. I think that politics has become a larger part of sort of our daily conversation than when I was younger. I mean in the 1960s it was, it was a. Certainly a big deal, but I don't know. Seven in the 80s as much as there was going on with like Iran Contra or the hostage crisis or anything like that, I mean, Johnny made jokes about the Iran Contra, Johnny made jokes about the hostage crisis.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

It just wasn't a big a part of the national conversation. There were times we didn't think about politics.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert]

And that changed, I think, I don't really know. I would say probably around 9 11. I think 911 might have changed what the national focus is because it became more important, it became more, there were more stakes, it seemed like. And so it became a bigger part of the conversation. And also 24 hour news made it. And 24 hours a day you could put your mouth around that carbon monoxide hose of the news cycle and just suck the fumes because they had, because they had to. Because the cable news has to burn the tires of the news 24 hours a day to keep the lights on. There's not. And so much of it is just opinion. And opinion really ends up being a panel show. And the panel show ends up being about fighting and that conflict ends up being the thing that they're selling. And so the nation becomes increasingly divided and so it becomes a bigger part of the conversational playing field.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. So do you have a favorite joke? Joke?

[Stephen Colbert]

What do you mean? Like guy walks into a bar joke?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, anything like that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you know my favorite knock knock joke?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Stephen Colbert]

Say knock knock, knock knock. Who's there?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who's there? Who?

[Stephen Colbert]

No, it's just, it pimps the other guy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wait, wait, what is it? Wait, can we do it again?

[Stephen Colbert]

Sure. You want to hear my favorite knock knock joke?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes. Say knock knock, knock knock.

[Stephen Colbert]

Who's there?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It just forces me to just come.

[Stephen Colbert]

Up with a That's what I like. That's what I like about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can you remember an inauthentic version of yourself?

[Stephen Colbert]

A million of them? Yeah, sure, sure. The Nervous me is the most inauthentic version of me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, yeah. Because the. The nervous. Or rather when I'm nervous. Not that I'm nervous. Nervous is authentic. But when I'm nervous, I can sometimes construct a face for the faces that we meet. Like, you know, I try to come up with something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

That I think might be appealing to the person I'm talking to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

That doesn't have me as much anymore. When I was younger, and I get starstruck.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. I don't star strike that much anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, who are you most starstruck of from? I feel like it must have been in your 20s. It must have been shocking because you were on the Daily Show. Right. Or your early 30s.

[Stephen Colbert]

You're so sweet to think that I was on the Daily show in my 20s.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In your 30s.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love you, Mike.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Particularly.

[Stephen Colbert]

Jim Martin from American magazine and of course, from the Dicastery for Culture and Education.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

At the Vatican, he said, hey, do you want to meet the Pope? Because they Pope wants to meet some comedians. Would you help me put together a list? And I was like, yeah, sure. But it really felt like we were gonna hang with the Pope.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then when Gaffigan called me and conveyed it to me, it was very similar. It's like, no, he wants to speak with us. I'm like, you sure? He's like, I think so.

[Stephen Colbert]

And it really sounded like 10 of us.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it did sound like 10 of.

[Stephen Colbert]

Us, because it said he want. Could you help me? I need a list of 10 comedians to recommend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh.

[Stephen Colbert]

And so it sounded like there going to be 10 of us. And I imagine it would be short.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I imagine it would be some little. Sort of little room in the Apostolic Apartments or some of the Papal apartments. And we would sit there, and maybe we'd have a cup of tea. He would ask us a few polite questions. We would talk a little bit about comedy, and there'd be a photograph.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is what the Pope said to us. He said, I'm reminded. Do you remember this? I'm reminded of the story in the book of Genesis when God promised Abraham that within a year he would have a son. He and his wife Sarah were old and childless. I've been reading this on stage lately to see if there's jokes. And I look at the audience, I go, she was 23. And then Sarah said, God has made laughter for me. Everyone who hears this will laugh over me. That is why they named their son Isaac, which means he laughs. And then I wrote, at this point, I thought, it's possible the Pope just opened a PDF of the Bible and did a command F on the word laugh. This wasn't adding up for me. And he said this thing where he goes, according to the Bible, at the beginning of the world, while everything was being created, Divine wisdom practiced your form of art for the benefit of none other than God himself, the first spectator of history.

[Stephen Colbert]

Divine wisdom practiced your art for none other than God himself. So divine wisdom being something that is, of course, of God, but separate from him in that moment and entertaining God, apparently, me. Wow.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, that's where I, that's where the whole religious thing loses me. And I, and, and I. The religious thing. But it's where, like, I've heard a.

[Stephen Colbert]

Lot about this religious thing about my.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But where my Catholicism believes me is is that the spectator of history concept, that God being the God is a spectator of history?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. So it's like I, I have this joke that I sometimes tell where, where I go, that's the thing that freaks me out from Catholic school that's always stuck with me is when you're a kid, they go, God. Where I went to Catholic school, they said, God is watching you at all times. And so I just thought he was. I didn't think of him as a, as an entity or, you know, I thought of him as just a person just tailing me in a Chevy Malibu. Like, what's Mike Bir Piggly up to? Oh, he's. Oh, he's hiding porn in the forest. I'm gonna make sure he doesn't have a girlfriend till he's 20. And that prophecy came true. So maybe there is a guy.

[Stephen Colbert]

20'S not bad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, exactly. But then it stuck with me. When I was 15, I started masturbating. I thought he was watching me do that too. So I would sort of cheat to the came.

[Stephen Colbert]

Go on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I would cheat to the camera, like, go on Mike. Because I wanted to. Because I wanted to think if he, he was watching the monitor, he would go. I've seen a lot of 15 year olds masturbate, but this kid's good. I think he might go pro. It's a gift.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's a gift.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's a gift. But anyway, so that, that sort of. My question is of the Popes, what he said, what, what struck you as funny or worth talking about?

[Stephen Colbert]

Comedically I mean the being able to make like laughing at God, that's kind of fun. I like that. Not like making jokes about God. He said, is it okay to laugh at God? Laugh at God, Laugh at God, yeah. Wow. Not laugh with God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I thought that was really meaningful.

[Stephen Colbert]

That distinction, I'm not sure means the same thing in Italiano, but that was interesting to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I, I found it, I will say about Pope Francis and if people are interested in, in this even remotely, there is a Vim Benders documentary about Pope Francis that I think is beautifully directed and, and, and really gave me a sense of like that this guy is as far as I understand it, really doing the work, going to war torn countries. That's what I was trying with children and hospitals.

[Stephen Colbert]

Struck with that for his entire papacy, which started right, right when I was starting the Lechel. He's been willing to do things that the Curia doesn't like, that he's been, he's been able to buck not religious traditions, but papal traditions which are not the same thing or that or Vatican traditions or this sort of the, the things that grow on the Catholic Church over centuries. I've always thought of the Catholic Church as being like a, an oyster bank. And I grew up in the coast of South Carolina where you could just go out the right time of year. You can go out with your boat and you can just chop the oysters right off the bank. And they're clusters, they're not singles like you might get like at a nice restaurant or something like that. It's a cluster of oysters and they've grown on top of each other over the years because those little oyster polyps are looking for any place to land that might be hard. And another oyster shell is a great place to land. And so when you bring them back and you steam them and you hose them off, or you hose them off, then you steam them and you put them on a table and you take a knife and a glove so you don't cut your, and you work your way through that cluster of oysters and some of them are filled with mud and you knock those off and some of them might have like a crab living inside of them. And some of them have got this beautiful oyster meat in it. And I think of the Catholic Church as this, this bank of theology and tradition, you know, the ongoing revelation, as the church calls it, that is all grown on top of each, top of each other. And I think if you can respectfully and curiously and in pursuit of your faith work your way through that I don't think you always have to eat the mud. I think you can hold out for the oyster. And there are things in the church that I don't want to eat, but I don't think that means you're rejecting the faith itself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The last thing we do is working it out for a cause where we donate to an organization that you think does a good job and then we link in the show notes and encourage others to contribute.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm such an enormous fan of what Jose Andres and World Central Kitchen is doing incredible in Ukraine and in Gaza right now that I really wish to support them. Also, Radio Lollipop is an amazing organization. I know you're not asking me for more than one, but Radio Lollipop is for kids often in terminal wards or cancer wards. And it basically is entertainment for those kids who have to spend so much time, especially when they're long term cancer care or something like that in the hospital. And I'm a huge fan of radiology.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Gosh. Well, we'll contribute to both of those and we will link in the show notes. Stephen, it is such an honor to speak with you and to have you at the studio.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's so fun. It just gives me so much joy to talk to you. Every time we get a chance to do it and we don't have to do it with a recording device next time we can just.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nope.

[Stephen Colbert]

We could just be with each other.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, let's just do a full hang. Do a family hang.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, a fam hang.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, family hang.

[Stephen Colbert]

That sounds good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I did see you at the US Open.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Kind of hung with the fancy people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We could. Yeah, we could go to the Knicks game. No.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it Out. Cuz it's not done. We're working it out. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. That is one of my absolute favorite episodes. You can follow Stephen Colbert on Instagram stephenathome. Stephen with a ph. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel, ikeberbiglia and you can subscribe while you're on there. Check out birbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list and be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salamone, Joseph Birbiglia and Mabel Lewin. Associate producer Gary Simons. Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio for Metapillos. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. That really helps us out, helps people find the show. And if you like one of the shows, you know we have about 150 episodes since 2020 and they are all free. There's no paywall. We've had some incredible guests. Tig Notaro and David Sedaris and Roy Wood Jr. And so many folks. Check our back catalog and then comment on Apple Podcasts which one is your favorite and that way people will know what a good entry point is for them. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Let's say you're in an Uber with your significant other and they want to start planning the rest of the day or the week and that person's not your enemy. But maybe there's a little friction. I say you don't argue. You just say I love you. I want to plan. I want to plan with you. But first, let's share these earbuds and listen to Stephen Colbert on Mike Birbiglia's Working it out podcast, because nothing gets me in the planning mood more than two creatives working things out. Thanks everybody. We'll see you next time.