169. Ira Glass Returns: This American Comedian

Summary

Summary of Episode 169: "Ira Glass Returns: This American Comedian"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out
• Host: Mike Birbiglia
• Episode: 169. Ira Glass Returns: This American Comedian
• Release Date: May 5, 2025

---

Introduction: A Special Collaboration

In this milestone episode, Mike Birbiglia welcomes Ira Glass, the celebrated host of This American Life, for a unique and collaborative session. Unlike previous episodes where Mike sought Ira’s wisdom, this time the roles reverse as Ira seeks Mike’s expertise to refine his newfound interest in stand-up comedy.

Mike Birbiglia [00:10]:
"Before he was episode number one, he was episode number 100. And usually it's me asking Ira for advice. He's given me so much brilliant advice over the years, and now the tables have turned."

Ira’s Stand-Up Journey Begins

Ira Glass shares his inspiration to venture into stand-up comedy after revisiting his performances from a decade ago. Encouraged by Mike, Ira decides to bring his old stand-up material to the podcast for constructive critique and enhancement.

Ira Glass [02:20]:
"I don't know if I really wanted to actually make a stand-up set and put myself into the position that, like, you're in of I have nothing. So where do I begin?"

Analyzing Ira’s Stand-Up Material

The core of the episode revolves around dissecting Ira's stand-up routine. Mike and Ira listen to excerpts from Ira's past performance at the Eugene Mirman Festival, identifying strengths and areas for improvement.

Ira Glass [05:18]:
"This is a comedy show."

Unknown Speaker [05:20]:
"I brought along, like, music just in case, like, I would start to feel like, oh, is this going on?"

Mike critiques Ira’s approach to joke delivery, particularly his use of strong language and how it impacts audience perception.

Mike Birbiglia [09:00]:
"Because everyone sucks for everything. Every location, every whatever."

Ira Glass [09:25]:
"They do not advertise hiking properly at all. So is that why?"

Developing Jokes Through Storytelling

The discussion shifts to the mechanics of joke construction, emphasizing the importance of relatable setups and surprising punchlines. Mike illustrates this with examples from his own work, encouraging Ira to leverage personal stories.

Mike Birbiglia [15:30]:
"I think a lot of it is you have a setup, something that we all believe to be relatively true, and then the thing takes a left turn so that we have a surprise or something we don't expect."

They explore Ira's story about admitting he’s never been hiking, examining how to expand this premise into a compelling stand-up bit.

Ira Glass [14:32]:
"What did they say? And then somebody, like, near me is like, sex while hiking."

Navigating Sensitive Topics with Humor

Ira expresses his desire to incorporate personal and sensitive subjects, such as his father's dementia, into his comedy. Mike provides guidance on balancing vulnerability with humor, sharing his experiences of writing about serious topics.

Ira Glass [37:10]:
"I don't like the idea of her having to take care of me if I have dementia."

Mike Birbiglia [40:05]:
"I think confessions are part and parcel of stand-up. If you're not telling secrets on stage, who cares?"

They discuss the challenge of finding humor in deeply personal narratives and the importance of authentic storytelling in comedy.

Practical Advice for Aspiring Comedians

Mike outlines a step-by-step approach for developing stand-up material:

1. Write Setups: Identify universally relatable truths.
2. Craft Punchlines: Develop multiple humorous responses or twists.
3. Trial and Error: Test jokes in front of live audiences and refine based on feedback.

Mike Birbiglia [31:26]:
"Write out a setup, something we all believe to be true. And then write out five punchlines."

He shares anecdotes from his early days at the DC Improv, emphasizing the importance of persistence and resilience in comedy.

Enhancing Joke Structure and Flow

The conversation delves deeper into maintaining a cohesive narrative within a stand-up set. Mike advises Ira on linking jokes seamlessly, ensuring each punchline propels the story forward rather than feeling disjointed.

Mike Birbiglia [26:32]:
"Once you have the subway analogy, which is a good analogy, but then you're just kind of like going like. You're kind of just like free associating."

They brainstorm ways to transition between topics, such as comparing hiking to walking in a city, to create a more engaging and structured routine.

Embracing Vulnerability and Personal Stories

Ira contemplates how to incorporate his familial experiences into his comedy without losing the humorous essence. Mike encourages embracing these personal narratives, suggesting that authenticity resonates with audiences.

Ira Glass [43:28]:
"But like, other things where slowly we realize we're the out. We're the ones who are on the outside of the thing."

Mike Birbiglia [40:55]:
"If you're not telling secrets on stage, who cares?"

Conclusion: A Path Forward for Ira

As the episode wraps up, Mike praises Ira’s willingness to explore new creative avenues and suggests future collaborations. They also highlight the importance of supporting public broadcasting, aligning with Ira’s professional roots.

Mike Birbiglia [53:40]:
"I'm open to you coming back."

Ira Glass [53:54]:
"I think I was, too. So should I come back with the... material?"

Notable Quotes

• Mike Birbiglia [15:30]:
  "I think a lot of it is you have a setup, something that we all believe to be relatively true, and then the thing takes a left turn so that we have a surprise or something we don't expect."

• Ira Glass [37:10]:
  "I don't like the idea of her having to take care of me if I have dementia."

• Mike Birbiglia [31:26]:
  "Write out a setup, something we all believe to be true. And then write out five punchlines."

• Mike Birbiglia [40:55]:
  "If you're not telling secrets on stage, who cares?"

---

Supporting Public Broadcasting

In a heartfelt conclusion, Ira advocates for supporting public radio amidst current challenges, urging listeners to donate to their local stations.

Ira Glass [53:04]:
"Given the current challenges facing public broadcasting, if people listen to their local public radio station, this would be a really good time to donate."

Mike Birbiglia [53:16]:
"I'm gonna give you WNYC, because that's our local one."

---

This episode serves as an insightful exploration of the intersection between storytelling and stand-up comedy. Through constructive feedback and collaborative brainstorming, Mike Birbiglia and Ira Glass demonstrate the nuanced process of transforming personal narratives into engaging comedic material. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on joke crafting, the importance of vulnerability, and the relentless pursuit of comedic authenticity.

Transcript

[Ira Glass]

Foreign.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's Mike Birbiglia. This is a very special episode of Working It Out. Ira Glass, of course, has been a guest on the podcast. Before he was episode number one, he was episode number 100. And usually it's me asking Ira for advice. He's given me so much brilliant advice over the years, and now the tables have turned because Ira called me a couple weeks ago and he said, you know, I was listening back to standup comedy that I performed about 10 years ago at the Eugene Mirman Festival in Brooklyn. And he goes, and it was pretty good. And I was like, I want to try to do this. I want to try to get better. So I thought maybe I'd come on your show and we'd talk about. I'll play some of the actual audio from me doing standup and you can critique it and tell me how you think it could be better. And so that's what we're doing today. I just want to tell you about a couple shows I'm doing this summer. Obviously, the Good Life is coming out May 26th. Whenever it shows up on your Netflix remind me area, just click remind me. So you know, comes out Monday, May 26th. I'm super, super excited how it came out. I can't wait for you to see it. I'm doing a couple shows this summer in support of John Mulaney. Me and Nick Kroll and Fred Armisen are each doing probably 15 to 20 minute sets at the beginning of John's headlining set. August 7th at the Westville Music bowl in New Haven, Connecticut. August 8th at the Bethel woods center for the arts in Bethel, New York. Get [e-mail] and sign up for the mailing list to know about all upcoming shows. I love this conversation with Ira Glass today. We've never done this before. We've never listened. Honestly, we never listened to standup comedy in real time on the show and broke it apart. It was really fun to do. I think you'll love it. Enjoy my conversation with the great Ira Glass. So you finally come to me for advice.

[Ira Glass]

Well, that's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I knew it would happen sooner or later. All these years I've been asking you for advice, getting your wisdom. Finally, the other day you texted me, I'm thinking of working on a stand up set because I did one 10 years ago on a lark. And then I listened back to it and it was actually pretty good and maybe it could be something. So why don't I come on the podcast and we'll work on a standup Set.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, so we're gonna maybe play some of your standup and then maybe we'll stop and start with your stand up.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because I actually think this is a really. We get a lot of questions and emails from people who listen to this podcast. And I think a lot of times this is what they crave, which is how do you start with nothing or next to nothing and then build something from it?

[Ira Glass]

Well, that's exactly what I'm interested in. Right. So, like, because I realized that when I did this, you'll hear there's a thing that had just happened to me that I knew was a funny story. I just knew it was a funny story. Cause I was telling my friends that story and I was like, this is a totally solid funny story and I can imagine how you tell it on stage. And so I did that and then I just thought of other stories along similar lines that could go with it. What I don't know is if I really wanted to actually, actually make a stand up set and put myself into the position that, like, that you're in of I have nothing. So where do I begin? That's the thing. I don't know. And how do I move from a list of like, here's impossible topics to now I'm writing a joke with a structure and it connects to the next joke. That's the thing that I'd like us to talk about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. I'm glad that you brought that up in relation to it's a story you would tell. Whenever people say to me, I want to try to do stand up, but I don't know where to start. I always say to them, what's a story you tell when you're at a party? You know, Zarna Garg was on the show the other day and like, for years, she was like the funniest person at the party kind of thing. And then like, her kids were literally like, you have to do this for audiences. Because fundamentally it really is stand up. Comedy is a party. It's one person being a little overly talkative and then a group of people kind of like listening in and being like, oh, okay, okay. This is a good story this person is telling. So I do like that analogy. Okay, so let's play a little bit of it. All right, here we go. Your next act.

[Ira Glass]

This is. This is from the Eugene MMAN Comedy Fest.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He is the host of this American Life. It is such a pleasure that he's here. Ladies and gentlemen, Ira Glass.

[Ira Glass]

Right. This is a comedy show.

[Unknown Speaker]

I brought along, like, music just in case, like, I would start to feel like, oh, is this going on? Because I could always put music under stuff and it would just feel like. And just like it would just all feel more safe and normal. I had this experience on stage one month and a day ago. One month, One day minus one month. One month from tomorrow. I had this experience on stage that, honestly, it's haunted me. I feel like I still don't know.

[Ira Glass]

What to make of it.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I was giving a talk. Usually when I'm on stage, I'm doing public radio events, fundraisers for public radio stations.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Ira Glass]

I just want to say. Okay, right there. Okay. So that thing where I say, like, I had this experience and I don't know what to make of it now, you would do that in a radio story, but really you don't need that for a stand up bit. There's no reason to throw that out there as bait. You could just say, I had this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Experience and go, I agree, I agree. I think qualifying it is only making the audience think about it too much.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, but on the radio.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I like that as fate so far. I like it, though. I mean, like, I like that you call out as a comedy show, you're known not for comedy shows. You're known for being a radio producer and host. And then I think playing music under it seems good.

[Ira Glass]

All right. I was standing there with an iPad where I could play music from. Okay, here we go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I was in Breckenridge, Colorado, which is a mountain town.

[Ira Glass]

Okay. I had never been there.

[Unknown Speaker]

Are you from there?

[Ira Glass]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love it.

[Ira Glass]

You love it though?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. It's like a big place for outdoorsy people and there's like an incredibly beautiful day and it's super outdoorsy. And at one point I was on stage and it's like 1200 public radio.

[Ira Glass]

Listeners who you would think would be.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like the least outdoorsy people in town, but it turns out even they are pretty fucking outdoorsy. And I had this experience where I said to the audience, I said, okay, I'm going to say something to you now, and I don't know if it's a good idea to say it to you or not. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to say it to.

[Ira Glass]

You, and then we're going to vote on whether it was a good idea.

[Unknown Speaker]

For me to say it to you. And then what I said to them was, I've never been hiking. And then 1200 people went like. And I was totally like, what happened? And then they voted and it was definitely not a good idea. And then I was like, what is it? And then people coming out to the audience. It's like, we just see you differently now. And I was trying to figure out, like, what does that even mean? And I was trying to, like, imagine that in my world, okay, so I'm in my 50s. And, like, so to them, for somebody in their 50s to stand on stage and say, I've been on this plan for 50 years and I've never been hiking. I'm trying to think about what would apply to this room. It's like somebody would say, I've lived in New York for 50 years and I've never been on the subway. And just think about how you would look at them. That's how they looked at me. Of like, what are your values? Who are you? What choices are you making? And I was like, well, wait, but hiking, it's just.

[Ira Glass]

It's just walking, Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let's pause for a second.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm giving you this fancy nomenclature.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So this is great. Yeah, it's a great start. I think, like, it's. There's a couple, like, rookie things that are kind of neither here nor there. Like, for example, like, Breckenridge, Colorado, people are going to woo. You can't acknowledge it.

[Ira Glass]

Just move on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, Just. You're just wasting people's time.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because everyone woos for everything. Every location, every whatever. Okay, great. When you do the fucking outdoorsy, you can do it, but it's like, just know that fucking is uncalibrating your laugh. So in other words, like, you don't actually know whether that's funny because it's like a comedy. Jim Gavigan calls it, like, using the word fuck like a comedy steroid.

[Ira Glass]

Oh, they're so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You don't know the muscularity. You don't know the muscularity of the humor because people just have a guttural response to the word. And so you're just kind of like, all right, well, I don't even know if that's funny.

[Ira Glass]

That's great. It's funny. I said fucking because that's what I would have said in real life. In real life, they don't know me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And like, look.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, look, like, okay, you can do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Also, you can do it once because it's funny that the guy on public radio is saying fuck. Like, that's funny. That is funny. But if you do it four or five times, it's like, what's diminishing returns?

[Ira Glass]

And also, it's cheap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I think like, this is a perfect example of like, how storytelling is one thing and stand up comedy is another. It's really funny when you go, we see you differently now because you're on hike. And then you go an analogy of. That's the equivalent in New York. If someone's like, I don't use the subway, but then I don't use the subway. That's an opportunity. That's joke soil. That's an opportunity to do a tag, tag, tag about something specific on the subway or to do other examples of what else is like the subway. That's like going to Texas and being like, I don't have a gun. That's like going to blank and being like, you know, but wait, what would other subway jokes. That's like going to. That's like going to Florida and saying, I've read books, you know, and. But it's like, that's your opportunity. Once you've gotten into the analogy, sorry, Florida, by the way, I know you read books, some of you like. But that's your opportunity because it's your step out from what your story is. Oh, and that's what separates. So. So you're just throwing away these lines. You're like, you're kind of like free associating. Once you have the subway analogy, which is a good analogy, but then you're just kind of like going like. You'd be like, what the heck? Or whatever. It's like, well, those are wasted lines. You know what I mean? Like, you're kind of just like. You're improvising, clearly. But like, you either have to get to more of the story or have your jokes be better and sharper, right? It's like if this. What you know, all of joke tags are, if this, what else? If this, what else? If this, what else? Like, a great example of that is like when you see an improv show, essentially the scene that you're watching is, here's like a regular day in the life of a family, you know, whatever, living in the woods or whatever, just going about their day. And then something happens where it's like someone discovers. Wait, you have a cell phone. You know, like one per. One person is doing something different than everybody else. We all agreed we weren't gonna. And then the whole scene ends up being an act out of what would happen if, right? You had a family living in the forest, no technology, and then one. It turns out, one person doesn't have a cell phone. What's the act out of that?

[Ira Glass]

Okay, so in this instance, if I would Go further, just on the subway without going to other cities or states. What's another. Where would I go if. What else would I say about the subway?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, you could be like, you know, and you'd try to pretend. You'd try to play it off. You'd be like, of course I've been on the subway. That's the train on the tracks with the wheels and the steam. Right, right. You know what I mean? Like, that's like an act out of that conversation.

[Ira Glass]

Right, I see.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't know. Okay, that might not be good, but I'm just saying, like, that. Okay, like, that. That's like a. That's like a common way to make something that's a premise into a joke, which is to. To act out the hypothetical of if that happened. Like, so you're saying, like I said, I've never hiked. And they were like, what the heck? And you're like, that's like. If I was like, I've never been on the subway. And then it's like, you imagine, like, well, what is that? What's the act out of that conversation? And then you're like, no, no, no, I have. I have. I've been there. The orange seats and the.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right, all right, let's keep playing.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right, well, wait, but hiking, it's just.

[Ira Glass]

It's just walking, right?

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, you're just fancy nomenclature, but it's just. You're just walking around. And they're like, yeah, but it's in nature. But it's like, how different is that, really, than when my wife and I go walking around, like, the West Village and looking at stuff? They're like, it's totally different because it's nature. And I was like, but why is that? And then there was also, like, a kind of. And I really felt something I almost never felt, which is, like, New York Pride. Because I honestly don't give a fuck about New York City. But, like, I really felt like, oh, my God, I'm now a New Yorker. I had to come to Colorado to realize that I'm a New Yorker. And then I'm talking to the audience about, like, wait, what's so good about it? And then somebody, like, in the way back of the audience yells out something. I was like, what did you say? And everybody's around them is like, claps. That's right. That's right. And wake up. I was like, well, what did they say? What did they say? And then somebody, like, a little closer to me in the auditorium yells out something. I can't hear. And I was like, what? And everybody around them sort of like, that's right, that's right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's.

[Unknown Speaker]

What did they say? And then somebody, like, near me is like, sex while hiking. I was like, sex while hiking. And I was like, well, how many of you, 1200 people have had sex while hiking? And then it was like, all of them. No. And then they were all like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now I just want you to picture this from where I was standing.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

When you do a public radio event, and it was just kind of a. It was a fundraiser, so it's kind of expensive. It's like 60, 70 bucks for the tickets, which years ago, expensive here, but in Colorado is crazy. Like, I don't know if you've ever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Paused for a sec.

[Unknown Speaker]

Buy anything anywhere.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, like, I. So my favorite thing so far is hiking is just walking. That's so funny. And I feel like you could do two minutes on that. Like. Like, I think, is it true?

[Unknown Speaker]

Why?

[Ira Glass]

What's there?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, it's just funny. It's like, I mean, we were talking about this earlier before you showed up. It's like, what is essential to a great joke, And I think a lot of it is you have a setup, something that we all believe to be relatively true, and then the thing takes a left turn so that we. There's a surprise or something we don't expect. And then even better than that is if the surprise reveals something about you, the person talking.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is even maybe a confession of some kind. That's kind of like a quintessential, like the best case scenario of a joke. But I think, like, if the setup. Hiking is just walking is a true. And we all believe it to be true, and it's an astute observation that we're not thinking about all the time. Yeah, that's kind of gold. Like we were saying earlier, like, an example of that is, like. Is like, there's a joke in my last special, Old man in the Pool, where I go, healthy food, goes to bed early. And it's like. It's funny because we're like, yeah, it totally is. Healthy food does go to bed early. And it's true and it's a joke. And then I can do tags about it once we're in that world.

[Ira Glass]

And so for that, like, what. What could I build off of that? Because I feel like I. I don't even know how to picture what I'm building off of. Hiking is just walking. Yeah, well, hiking is just walking. Except when you're walking around New York City versus when you're walking around the woods, you don't see a bear, but maybe you see, like, I'm trying to think of the name of, like, the right celebrity.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A human being masturbating.

[Ira Glass]

Human being masturbating. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of, like, the right word of somebody for that joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or you might see someone throwing you down the stairs.

[Ira Glass]

Right, but is that what you mean? Yeah, I guess.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it is what I mean.

[Ira Glass]

That's what you mean. Yeah. Just basically run the comparison of hiking versus walking.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Because I think fundamentally with standing, you're telling a story.

[Ira Glass]

Right, right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And what you're focused on as a storyteller on your radio show and when you're touring all the time is like, what's pulling them to the next idea? What's pulling them to the idea after that? So then, so then, so then, so then, right. What people go to see stand up comedy for is kind of to be on the scrambler of ideas and words. It's kind of like if musically it's like jazz, it's just like, well, where are we gonna go? And so you going, like, from hiking to the subway to this to this, like, jumping around actually is part of, I think, what's fun about it. Okay, so ideas are interesting.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, so here's another pitch for hiking is just walking. Except when you're walking around a city, there's something interesting to look at. And the problem when you're in nature is it's just trees.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's great. It's repetitive.

[Ira Glass]

It's repetitive. It's just.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. And it's a little bit like, there's no variety. It's a little bit like. Yeah, we get it. Forest, tree, tree, tree. Dirt, like pattern. Yeah, Repeating. Okay. And then I wrote down sex while. So, so let's say you set up the idea of hiking is just walking, and then you get to this really funny part about sex while hiking. And they all kind of know it's like an inside joke on you, which I think is a joke unto itself, too. The joke on you from the audience is funny, dude.

[Ira Glass]

I have to say, like, this is the thing I don't know the answer to. I don't sell this well in the standup set is I literally don't know where they putting me on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

1200 people.

[Ira Glass]

They're not putting me on. They all have had sex while hiking.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm gonna ask Gary and Mabel, do you think this is a thumbs up or a thumbs down? On things people do. 100%. 100% yes. Yeah. They're both saying 100% yes.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People do this. Yeah, they were. They were not putting you on. They. And actually, I think it's an interesting part about this. Is this where the personal revelation could come in? I think the thing you're describing to me right now is interesting. The fact that you don't know about this conspiracy of sex happening in the woods is hilarious because it's a personal revelation by you. It means you haven't had sex in the woods.

[Ira Glass]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

As a result, you're reveal. You're divulging this to your. To the audience.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then. So the joke is on you in the story, but also the jokes on you with the audience, which is good.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it's great.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, it's super funny. So then I just had a tag, which is sex while hiking. And then you're like, is that a thing? Or whatever. And then I thought, as a. As a callback to your own joke, sex while hiking is just sex while walking. And then you could be like, are people having sex while walking?

[Ira Glass]

Wow. Okay. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That all tracks, right? Like, something. That could be something. I'm not saying that. That's the thing. I'm just, like, sitting at a table here.

[Ira Glass]

Okay. All right, let's keep going. All right.

[Unknown Speaker]

It was a fundraiser, so kind of expensive. It's like 60, 70 bucks for the tickets, which, like, is expensive here, but in Colorado is crazy. Like, I don't know if you've ever tried to buy anything anywhere outside of New York City. You remember what it was like before you lived in New York City? Like, okay, so my wife and I, we moved here in 2006. 2007.

[Ira Glass]

Okay. I feel like this next joke is kind of cheap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I had this experience two years ago. I was in Dallas. Yeah, awesome, right? And I was at a bar with three people, and I went to the bar to buy us a round of drinks. And it was. I remember it was two Jamesons and two beers, and I pull out $40, and the bartender's like, that's $14. Did we travel back in time?

[Ira Glass]

Pause. What are you about to say?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was just gonna say, like, that's a. That's like, a very funny joke. Two Jameson's, two beers, $14. Like. Like, the. The. The end of that joke is like, what that would get you in New York, Right? In New York, if you went to a bar and asked for a glass of water, they would say, It's $14, but don't worry about it.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just to give the sense of, like, what New York is, like, yeah, bring it back. Yeah, yeah.

[Ira Glass]

There's just more there than I'm using.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Did you guys know this? It's like, it's crazy. It's so expensive in New York City, so. But anyway, so it's expensive. So the people who come, and I say this with respect, were old people. That's who comes to a thing where there's 60, $70 tickets. So, like, in front of me, I mean, in the back seats, there's some cheap seats, but really, like, most of what I can see is older glasses wearing people. And so picture, like, your audience of your parents. Older people. So, like. So, like, what's going on? So I'm saying to the audience, wait, how many had sex while hiking? And then it's really, like, picture. It's your parents, an auditorium of them going like, yeah, yeah, of course. What happened when you're like, yeah. And then, like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then here. Pause for a second. I think there's an opportunity here to be like, it's older. Older glasses, wearing people. It's people who look like me. It's me talking to people like me who had sex in the woods, telling me that I have not had sex in the woods.

[Ira Glass]

That's funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

Driver was in his 20s. I was like, okay.

[Ira Glass]

So then I did a big transition here. So the next day, I had a driver who was young take me to the airport. And then I asked him, not real.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, they were just like, the whole audience figured out that they could put me on. And he's like, no, dude, no, it's totally real. He's like, me and my girlfriend, every weekend we take a hike, and that's what we like to do. And we have sex, like, in the woods somewhere. And we bring a hammock. I was like, a hammock? And then you just picture the like. I was like, why do you even like. But now I just felt like I really wanted to know the physics of that, but I feel like it's going to get really technical in kind of a gross way. Do you know what I mean? Of like. Well, she puts her legs. You know, I just didn't want to hear it. But, like. And I was saying to the audience, like, sex while hiking, like, on the ground. Do you know what I mean? Like, in the. In the dirt, Like. And I said this. And they're like, you find a rock as if that makes it. And I don't know if you've been outside, but there's like bugs and like, it's Colorado. There are bears. Okay.

[Ira Glass]

Have you guys had.

[Unknown Speaker]

Have you guys. How many people here hike.

[Ira Glass]

Can I just hear.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay, how many of you have sex while hiking here?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Pause for a sec. I just think it's. There's two opportunities here. I think one is a hammock. And you can be like, what, you know, what else? Like that, you know, like what else do you use? A fishing rod and this, you know. You mean like I'm trying to think of other fishing, like other. Other camping. Other camping stuff, you know, because the hammock is so nonsensical in a certain way. It might be funny, I don't know, camping supplies, but like, yeah, it just might be funny to do that. And then, you know, a fishing rod, a torch, this or that, whatever. And then, and then you go, you find. Then you ask the person, and the person goes, you find a rock. And then I think there's an opportunity there to be like, you think that's the answer? You think that solved the puzzle in my brain. You find a rock. What size of rock? I'm just imagining two people having sex on a pebble. Like, oh, this hurts my back. So I just think there's something there. I think what's funny is this, this actually goes back to. I think you taught me years ago about storytelling on this American Life, which is. And I quoted on this podcast all the time, which is like so many. So often a story is the plot of the story and then a little bit of how you feel about that piece of plot and then more plot and then a little more of how you feel about that. And with my stories and what I'm pitching you to do, the how you feel about it is jokes.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's extrapolations of let. Letting your. Your brain kind of go for a walk and. And free associate in kind of the most absurd way.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

On. What would be these. What would. How you feel about it?

[Ira Glass]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

And like putting yourself in the. In the shoes of yourself, talking to this local guy, being like, do people do this? And him being on a rock. It's like, how do you feel about that? Like increasingly, like you're actually. It's almost like a Kafka esque story. It's like increasingly you're the person who's not involved with this like, mass sexual hike conspiracy.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which I think is funny and I think oddly relatable.

[Ira Glass]

Huh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think we've all Been in a situation, whether it's not sex and hiking, obviously, that's just you. But like. But like, other things where slowly we realize we're the out. We're the. We're the ones who's on the outside of the thing. I think that that's what the story is.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right, let's keep playing it.

[Ira Glass]

All right, all right. This. This anecdote's almost over. Here we go.

[Unknown Speaker]

They do not advertise hiking properly at all. So is that why. Is that why REI is such a big thing? Okay, so last weekend I went to another mountain town. I was in Missoula, Montana. Seventy thousand. All right.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Awesome place. And then I, like, laid out the whole thing and the sex while hiking, and they all were like, yeah. And then I get to my whole speech about public radio. And then this question time. I took six questions. And the last question was some lady in the audience in the way back road. I couldn't see her. And she raised her hand. She's like, wanna go hiking tomorrow?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great ending. Wanna go hiking tomorrow?

[Ira Glass]

I didn't even write it myself. Some random lady.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right. That really happened.

[Ira Glass]

That really happened. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Want to go hiking tomorrow? That's cool. And then did you go, no, that's a married man. Right. But like, for the joke. This is. This is where. This is where the journalism of your show and the comedy that I do depart from one another, which is like, I'm. If it's working, I might place this in a scenario where you're not married when this story happens, then you would go. So we went hiking and we didn't even have sex. She just wanted to go hiking.

[Ira Glass]

That's fine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She and I are the only two people who don't think that this is what hiking's for. This is actually what people ask for all the time. But since we have Josh Johnson and Tig Notaro and all these people who are pros, it's more. It's more like level. Level 10.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They know what they're doing, doing it. Right. And a lot of listeners are like, how do I start? And it's like, this is actually, I'm good.

[Ira Glass]

Because you basically finally got a listener who's a beginner on the show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

True. We found our guy.

[Ira Glass]

No, I feel. Yeah, I feel like I'm totally civilian level funny. I'm not professional level funny. And I know that because when you say, like. Well, I know that. Cause you and I work together. And sometimes it'll be like, we need a joke here. And you'll just have a joke. You'll just like, just. And then. No, no, I want you just make up another one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just.

[Ira Glass]

I can't do that. Like, when you say, like, oh, fill this out with more jokes right here. Like, I feel like I don't. I don't know. That's a part that I feel like that's a part that I don't know how to do. I don't know if I can. I don't know if. I don't know if my brain associates that way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, you definitely associates that way.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's just a matter of forcing your brain. Well, like, you and I have this. When we worked on Sleepwalk with me, the movie and Don't Think Twice the movie. It's like your. Your. Your thoughts. When we would do readings or we'd be in the edits was like, the way that I'm pitching jokes, you would pitch story.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You'd be like, you need the character to say the fundamental question of the movie in this scene for us as an audience to understand what the movie is about.

[Ira Glass]

I get that. That's me. I mean, it's funny because it's such a radio story thing where in a radio story, you really do say what the story's about. But radio tends to be a more didactic medium than film. And in film, it could be really bad if you say it. But it's funny because in this case, it worked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you have that first story, your brain.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You've basically chiseled your brain into a knife. That. That.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That strikes at. At story all the time.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. And you're so good at. But my. My brain has chiseled towards just being able to. How is this a joke? How is this a joke?

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. And what I would say to the listeners, if you're considering doing sound comedy. But you. You're like, I don't get how to make the joke is like, you really have to. Trial and error. I always. This is how I started when I was 19 years old in college, I was working the door at the DC Improv. I came up with my own exercise, which was you write down a setup which is something that is true or we all believe is true. And then I would write five punchlines like, what about this? What about this? What about that? So, like, the first joke.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What would have said I ever wrote that worked? We have it in Sleepwalk with me where I go. My girlfriend is getting the age where she's thinking about having kids, which is Sad because we're gonna have to break up. I've decided I'm not gonna have kids until I'm sure that nothing else good can happen in my life. And the reason the setup is a setup is that my girlfriend's a little older than I am, she's thinking about having kids, and we all go, okay, I'll take your word for that. Sure. Okay, that's a setup. Sure. And.

[Ira Glass]

And then.

[Unknown Speaker]

Which is sad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The punchline is sad because you're gonna have to break up, right? Because we don't see that coming. Because it's like, whoa, that's. That's how extreme you're gonna go, Right? And then I've decided I'm not gonna have kids until I'm sure nothing else good can happen in my life is. I think it's a joke because it's just a revelation, right? It's like a. It's almost like a philosophy. It's like, oh, not only is this guy not ready to have kids, he has like a life philosophy on why he essentially would never have kids and why would anyone ever want to have kids.

[Ira Glass]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

So that's why. Yeah, that's why that was so that's what I would say to the listeners who are considering doing writing jokes is like, write out a setup, something we all believe to be true. And then write out five punchlines. And honestly, just like, see if you can find a friend, ideally another friend, who's trying to do stand up comedy and just bounce back and forth what your punchlines are. And so often I'm just writing down a setup and I'm writing down five. Anything like, what? What about this? What about this? What about this? Because you actually don't. And that's why I say to you about your story, you don't know what is going to work. I mean, when I go this weekend as a comedy seller, working on new jokes, now that I've wrapped the Good Life, and it's like, on to the next chapter. And it's like, I don't know what's going to work. I've been doing this almost 25 years. I do not know what will work. You know, I'm just going like, I have a sense of it. I'm like, yeah, I think this is funny. I'm gonna say it in front of people.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But man, will do you find? I had a joke this weekend and it's like, I didn't know if this was gonna work. I go, it's stressful living in this era of our country. I Go the other night, 11 o'clock at night, Jim, my wife texts me, Trump is trying to. Trump is trying to dismantle the fdic. And I wrote back, baby, we'll work on it in the morning. And it's like. And it killed because people just feel that way. But I don't know if people feel that way. That's just how I feel. So it's like a lot of your stuff. I would say, like, write out how you feel and try it. Yeah. Honestly, like, repetition is, like, by far gonna be your best friend in this.

[Ira Glass]

Repetition mean get up on stage and just. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or even, like, run it with five people, four people, three even three people. Hey, can I run these jokes by you? And, like, the thing about laughter is it's so different. Jokes are so different from stories in terms of people's reaction. People don't fake laughter. Like, it's just. Or if they do, you know it. You're just like, yeah, that's fake laughter.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But. But people. If you get people, you really can see it.

[Ira Glass]

Is there a point for me when I write a story, I sit down and write a story?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Ira Glass]

So do you have a point during the day where you're like, okay, this is the time during the day today where I'm going to write jokes?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think it is. Typically, it's the morning. Set aside the morning for writing because it's before I'm kind of, like, afraid of the world. Before I have the news and this and life things coming at me. I try to set aside the morning where I'm fresh and I. And my. The key thing, I think, with Free rating for Stand up is to free write and let your mind go wherever it wants to go. Cause it's just gonna be so much junk, like a majority junk. Pages, pages and pages of unfunny things. Yes. I think almost any comedian would tell you this. Almost any comedian would tell you this.

[Ira Glass]

And you're just, like, writing out the stories the way you would tell them on the air and just, like, trying this and that. And then just in terms of process. Do you edit it down that day? Do you look at it the next day?

[Mike Birbiglia]

A few days later? A few days later, I look at it and go, like, what is still funny to me? And I think the key thing, when you're evaluating your own comedy, does it make you laugh? Not. Can you imagine other people laughing? I talk about this with Mulaney all the time. If you imagine people laughing when you're writing your joke, it's not a good joke, huh? It's. It genuinely is. It's the Venn diagram of what is funny to you. Testing it out with the Venn diagram of what the audience thinks is funny in that middle area, which is, I believe, only through trial and error that you find that really, really solid stuff.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So let's talk about the thing that you texted me about the other day, which is, like, you feel like you have some topics that you could talk about on stage, but you don't know exactly how to make them stand up. Comedy. Is that right?

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Ira Glass]

Okay. So I don't know if this is a thing, but it's going on right now. My sister and Susannah, my girlfriend, they. They talked me into getting a better doctor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. And so great premise.

[Ira Glass]

And so. And so I have this doctor who then set up all these appointments for me with other doctors and specialists and have had, apparently, like, you know, I'm being checked for cancer in all these new ways. And just. There's been just, like, a test pretty much. I've had a doctor's appointment every day that I'm in New York to look at something. Like today I had the experience of going to a dermatologist, which is why I'm dressed the way I am, because I dressed for the doctor. Do you dress for the doctor? No, you don't dress for the doctor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What are you talking about?

[Ira Glass]

Are you a doctor who you've never met? You don't, like, look like. You don't dress with it? You guys don't dress for the doctor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But you never met? You trying to hook up with a doctor?

[Ira Glass]

No, I just want them to think, like, you're, like, not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is a bit, by the way, dress for the doctor. Are you kidding me? That's your bit. We talk about this on the podcast all the time, by the way, which is you need friends in your life who are pointing out when you talk. That's a bit.

[Ira Glass]

That's a bit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a bit. And then.

[Ira Glass]

And then the joke was on me because it's a dermatologist. So the first thing they do is they put you in a room and they say, okay, take off all of your clothes. So I met this doctor in my underwear, right? Like, and then. And then. And then he's like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's ruining my plan to impress him with my khakis.

[Ira Glass]

And then that's. That's why I wear the corduroy jacket. Like, professorial.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Depressing to me.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do you mind taking that off, actually.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In your shirt and your Pants as well.

[Ira Glass]

Because I'm not somebody who feels comfortable, like, naked even in front of myself. Like, I just feel very awkward.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I relate to that. Yeah.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah. And so then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Ira Glass]

And then we had a whole awkward conversation. Or awkward for me. He's used to talking to people who are completely naked except for their underwear and just like, talking about this and that and just like. So you going back from vacation? You know, what's that place like? Yeah. Anyway, so, yeah, he was young, very handsome. Not that I wanted to make that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

End of the story.

[Ira Glass]

I don't know. Anyway, so. Okay, so I'm going to all these doctors. So I'm going to all these doctors and trying to be a good patient. And then the other thing I did is that I got a blood test to see if I'm going to get dementia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow. Did the results come back? No. You did it this morning?

[Ira Glass]

No, no, no. I did that a week ago. And the results came back while I was on vacation with Susanna. And we opened them up and we don't know what they mean.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's funny. That's a great joke. That's a great place to explore for a joke.

[Ira Glass]

And like, we don't know what they mean.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which is a perfect example of someone who would have dementia.

[Ira Glass]

Exactly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Doesn't understand the response.

[Ira Glass]

We need a doctor to explain it. Yeah. But we haven't had the appointment with the doctor. But then the whole dementia thing and serious. Cause my dad had dementia and my uncle and my cousin. And then her mom has dementia and she's dealing with her mom. And then I am 20 years older than her. And so. And we're getting married. And so this is so much personal information I'm sharing with people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Get used to it. You're a standup comedian now.

[Ira Glass]

And so, like, you know, I don't like the idea of her having to take care of me if I have dementia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I get that.

[Ira Glass]

And, and, and so. And then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. But of course, by the way. But that's. Of what you've said. That's by far the most interesting thing you've said because it's a confession.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that. That's really deep. And I think. I think. And. And I think confessions are part and parcel of stand up.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that, you know, if you're. I, Pete Holmes and I have talked about this on the podcast before. If you're not telling secrets on stage, who cares?

[Ira Glass]

And. Okay, that's a really good note and familiar to me in how to make a story. But then if I were to Go into the whole dementia thing. Would I talk about caring for my dad with dementia?

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think, absolutely.

[Ira Glass]

And talk about her experience with her mom, if she let me. And.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think all of that is really good. And I think it's. I think it's very relatable. And it's vulnerable about you fearing it's. It's really interesting, actually. I've never heard someone say they're worried about getting dementia, so. Because the other people in their life would have to take care of them. I think that's really interesting. Yeah. And I think in terms of, like, a joke in that it's like. And it's a hard joke to write. I mean, look, it's like writing things. Writing jokes about dark things is hard. It's like. I remember the first time I wrote a joke about a dark thing was. The first dark thing I wrote was when I had bladder cancer. And I said to the audience, I go, but it's funny because I have hypochondriac. And I think the funniest thing that can happen to hypochondriac is you get cancer because you're like, see, I told you. Remember last week when I thought I had rickets? I'm probably right about that, too. There's going to be a lot of changes around here. And I remember when I wrote that joke, I was, like, probably, like, 23 years old when I wrote that joke. And I was like, oh, that's great. Because the audience is signaled that it's okay to laugh at this subject matter. And of course, with my special that's. That's about to come out, a lot of it, I have to do a lot of that because it's about my dad having a stroke. And so it's like, are we okay as a group to laugh about that? My dad had a stroke. And I tell the audience, basically through jokes that we're gonna. We're gonna joke about it.

[Ira Glass]

But how do I like the stories about my dad having dementia and what it was like to witness that and be part of it? And. Yeah, like, I don't even know where to begin. Like, I could talk about what it was. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know how to tell that as a. Like, I know how to tell it as a story, I guess. I don't know how to. Like, I don't know how to find the laughs. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Was there any moment when you were spending time with your dad where something stuck out as a realization to You.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, the closest I have to that is that, you know, like you're watching your parent and they're so reduced and it's just hard to, it's hard to know with like what to do with your feelings about it. In my dad's case, at some point I realized that he had been on a trajectory towards this moment for a long time. Like he's somebody who never really liked new things. He didn't enjoy travel very much. And there was a point like years ago, like a decade ago maybe when I was down visiting him in Baltimore and he was driving me, he could still drive. He was totally like himself then. He's driving me to the train and so it's just the two of us in the car and they're saying like, so what's going on that you're enjoying? Like what do you know? Like what are you, like, what's kind of fun? What are you into right now? And he said nothing. And he didn't say it in like a self pitying way. He didn't say it kind of like it wasn't like for show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It wasn't laugh at this. This is funny.

[Ira Glass]

It is funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think him saying nothing is really funny.

[Ira Glass]

Is that true? I don't know. For me it's just that real moment. So you'll explain how it's funny. But anyway, so he says nothing. And then it's funny because I remember at that moment I thought I gotta get him interested in something. You know what I mean? What could I get him interested in? Then you think, well, maybe he could learn to play bridge. He's really great with numbers. He's an accountant or poker.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can't interrupt you. It's like. And I, and I realized like I had to get him interested in something. And then I realized that's what I've been trying to do my whole life, basically. Yeah. And it's true, except this time he literally can't do anything. You know what I mean? Like earlier in his life, like I was trying to get him interested in stuff, but he could do something. Now he literally can't do anything.

[Ira Glass]

You mean once the dimension about. And basically like his world just got smaller and smaller and smaller until his whole world was. He would get up kind of late, he would go and he would have like a little ritual he did with like changing the battery in his hearing aid. And like he took a certain pill and then he had the same breakfast every day. And then he would sit on a couch in front of golf. Like there's A golf channel on tv. And then he would sort of phase in and out of, like, understanding what was going on. I would sit in front of that TV with him for hours. And I never figured out, is this, like, are they rerunning the same tournament over and over or are these different tournaments? I could never figure out, like, what am I even seeing?

[Mike Birbiglia]

So. So one joke that occurs to me is like, you go through this whole thing of, like, I would visit my dad and. And he would change the battery in his thing, and then he would do this and this, and can you go through the methodical thing that you're going through, which is all very serious, and then you just go, anyway, I'm trying to avoid that for my girlfriend.

[Ira Glass]

Well, that's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean? Yeah, but I know it's true. But it's also, I think, a punchline. Like, I think, like, the audience kind of gets locked into what is the ritual, day to day ritual of your dad now in a real way. And then you're circling back to the girlfriend thing, which I just think I like it's true, but I think it is funny.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The other thing is, like, extrapolate this out. It's like, you don't want your girlfriend to deal with you having dementia. It's like, could there be some kind of a program? Could you set up a program for when you get dementia? You know what I mean? Like, could there be a thing where it's like. Where it's like she's cordoned off from, you know, like, she shows up one day. This is terrible. I'm pitching something terrible, but it's like she shows up. She shows up one day and the last locks have changed and I'm inside with a nurse and she doesn't have to deal with me again. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, like, like it might be like your brain running wild on if you don't want. If you really don't want your girlfriend to deal with you having dementia? It's like, well, what. What high, high in the sky, crazy idea would you do so she doesn't have to deal with dementia?

[Ira Glass]

Ira, do you really want to know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, we featured this book on this American Life a year or two ago by Amy Bloom, where basically her partner, her husband, realizes he's getting Alzheimer's, and he says to her, like, I don't want to go through that. I don't want you to go through that. So what we're going to do is you're going to figure out How I'm going to kill myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, I heard this. You're the researcher. It's beautiful.

[Ira Glass]

And then he goes off to this place in Switzerland where you, like, where you kill yourself. I mean, honestly, like that, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That'S what you do.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, but then that's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, people should listen to that episode if they haven't listened.

[Ira Glass]

It's incredible, Amazing. But also, like, when I heard it, I was like, okay, that's, that's a good plan. But then I realized he has trouble getting in and like, it's a whole fucking pain in the ass. And then I realized, like, I live in America. I could just buy a gun. Like, what the fuck? Like, what do you have to like.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do this fancy, all of this?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like every. Like that's your bid. Like, I think that's your bid. Like, I live in the United States of America.

[Ira Glass]

There's one thing you can do is easily kill yourself at any point.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, you and I have done a lot of stories over the years, and the classic example of this in yours and my process was in my girlfriend's boyfriend. I was working on stories about when I was with Jenny and I and we had like a really turbulent part of our relationship. I remember saying to you, like, where like, we're like, we were seeing other people and all this kind of stuff. And, and, and I was like, but I could never talk about that on stage. And you were, you were just like, no, no, that's the stuff that you have to talk about. It's like I would say the same exact thing.

[Ira Glass]

And I understand that. But like, like for the part of it of like, like, are there jokes in the Amy Bloom part? Is the Amy Bloom part just a setup to the joke of like, I just buy a gun.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a setup. Buy a gun. I'm in America. Buy a gun. I buy 10 guns. I could buy a semi automatic weapon.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, that's your joke. It's like, right? I mean, America. I mean, if there's one thing about America that works right, it's too many guns.

[Ira Glass]

Too many guns.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which is a really dark thought. This is too, probably too much, maybe too much for certainly too much for your audience. But, but, but yeah, that. In that vein, I think, like, you have to let your brain go unfiltered. I mean, you have to get on. And the big thing is you got to get on stage. I don't even know if you have enough time to get on stage. You're so busy with your show. But I But I do think that that's where you're gonna find it.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I wrote down this one random joke which is like, I didn't. You go. They, they. My girlfriend and my sister got me to go to Better Doctors. And I just wrote down like, I didn't know I had bad doctors until I found out about Better Doctors. This is kind of a funny, like, it's like a truism.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like when someone points out something that's better and you're like, I didn't even know. I thought I had the good one.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah. Yeah, that's good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like this new place had a waiting room, they had forms, they gave me a gown. The last place didn't even give me a gown. But, like, I think that the first of all, I think the Better Doctors thing is great. And I think it set. It also sets up this dynamic. Craig Mason, screenwriter who made the Last of Us, he always points out that so often in films we're not interested in who the characters are, we're interested in what is the dynamic between the characters. I think standup comedy is the same way. It's like when I talk about my wife or my daughter on stage, what's interesting is not who they are who I am. The interesting part is what is my dynamic with them.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that fundamentally a good place for you to work from is. Is the standup that you played for me earlier. Maybe we'll play a little bit more and then if you can get that working. So like, for example, like the hiking is walking thing, that's five minutes and it has an ending. Like, the ending is so clear of someone being like, do you want to go hiking? So it's like, you know, it's going to start big. You'll have new observations that we talked about potentially, and then you know where it'll land. So that's like a good five minute bit. And I would say, like, try to potentially do one of these kind of riskier stories, for example, like talking about your dad or talking about you trying to save your girlfriend from your own illness, et cetera. And then. And then figure out how to close strong. So I think that's going to be the challenge is stage time. Stage time is key. And then I think you have a great beginning bit. You need to come up with a good closing bit. And then in the middle is where you'll put the stuff that honestly, it's like experimental. Like, it's going to be hard to figure out where the laughs are in Talking about illness and your girlfriend and seeing doctors and all that stuff. But once you find it, I think that that's going to be probably the best stuff you have because it's most personal. The final thing we do on the show is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to support that we will contribute to and then link to in our show notes?

[Ira Glass]

I would say that given the current challenges facing public broadcasting, if people listen to their local public radio station, this would be a really good time to donate.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is a great point.

[Ira Glass]

And also, funding is threatened, and, you know, it's a good moment for it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

100% true. Also, to be a subscriber to this American Life to get bonus episodes.

[Ira Glass]

Sure do that, too. But I feel like. I feel weird asking people to donate to a charity that, like, I run.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. So I'm gonna give you wnyc, because that's our local one.

[Ira Glass]

Great.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And we'll link to them in the show notes, and hopefully people will contribute there. Ira, thank you so much for coming on the show to actually work out material.

[Ira Glass]

I know. Wow. Yeah. Well, thanks for the advice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think you were our first cast.

[Ira Glass]

I think I was, too. So should I come back with the. Should I come back with material?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you want me to come back?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm open to you coming back.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm open. As you know, first of all, you've been the great ally of my entire artistic career. You're the mentor that I thought I'd never have, that no comedian actually was willing to be. So you took on that daddy role in my life. Well, you know that's true, right?

[Ira Glass]

Kind of, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, like, my whole. So early in my career, all I wanted was a mentor. All I wanted was someone I wanted Colin Quinn. I wanted, you know, any number of these comics to take up my cause and help me and teach me. And, like, no one did. And then you did.

[Ira Glass]

Huh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So anyway, which is all to say. Which is all to say. I'm. I'm at your behest. Whatever you want from me, I'll do. I'll do this anytime. You can go work on material, come back, and we'll keep talking about.

[Ira Glass]

All right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's it.

[Ira Glass]

Well, maybe I will. Yeah. Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Great. Working it Out.

[Unknown Speaker]

Cause it's not done.

[Ira Glass]

We're working it out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's gonna do it. For another episode of Working It Out. You can listen to this American Life on your local public radio station or get the podcast version. Wherever you get your podcast, you can watch the full video of this episode on my YouTube channel, Ike Birbiglia. You can subscribe. We're posting more and more videos. Check out burbiglies.com to sign up for the mailing list and be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of Working it out or myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglian, Mabel Lewis Associate producer Gary Simons Sound mix by Ben Cruz Supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks as always to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Also, Jack is part of an amazing group called Red Hearse. We had one of their songs at the beginning of the Old man in the Pool and we have another one of their songs at the beginning of the Good Life. It is so cool. I can't wait for you to see it. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows, which makes it sound so nice. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. If you're new to the podcast and enjoyed this episode, we have over 160 more episodes that we've done since June of 2020 and they're all free. We've had Zarnagarg, we've had Nikki Glaser. So many amazing people. Check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcasts. Which one is your favorite? Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, Tell your enemies, Tell your new doctor. Ira talks about dressing up when you meet your new doctor. Such a bizarre concept. But if you really want to impress them, just make sure you're listening to this podcast in the exam room when the doctor comes in. Oh hey, sorry, I was just listening to this really cool podcast. Mike Birbigli is working it out. It's where comedian Mike Birbigli works out material with other comedians and sometimes even public radio hosts. If that doesn't impress you, check out this outfit. Thanks everybody, we're working it out. We'll see you next time.