Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out: Episode 174 with Pete Docter

In Episode 174 of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out, comedian and host Mike Birbiglia sits down with Pete Docter, the acclaimed chief creative officer at Pixar Animation Studios. The conversation delves deep into Pixar’s intricate creative process, storytelling techniques, the impact of technology on animation, and personal anecdotes from Pete’s illustrious career. This summary captures the essence of their engaging dialogue, highlighting key discussions, insights, and memorable quotes.

1. Introduction to Pete Docter and His Work

Mike Birbiglia opens the episode by expressing his long-standing admiration for Pete Docter’s work. He highlights Pete’s directorial accomplishments, including beloved Pixar films like Monsters, Inc., Inside Out, Soul, Up, and the upcoming Elio. Mike emphasizes Pete’s role in shaping Pixar’s storytelling and animation prowess.

Notable Quote:

Mike Birbiglia (00:22): "He is one of the smartest people I have encountered in storytelling and filmmaking in my entire life."

2. The Genesis of Up and Storyboarding

The conversation transitions to the creation of Up. Pete Docter shares the origin of the film’s iconic flying house concept, inspired by his desire to escape the overwhelming responsibilities of directing.

Key Points:

• Pete’s initial idea stemmed from his experiences directing Monsters, Inc. and feeling confined by the role.
• The concept evolved into the house floating away, symbolizing the desire for escape and the importance of community and connection.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (03:20): "I just want to get away from everything. Just float the house away."

Pete Docter (04:02): "Because, of course, the answer is that would be awful. And what you need is community and connection with other people. And that's what the movie's about."

3. Pixar’s Story Development and Feedback Mechanisms

Pete elaborates on Pixar’s meticulous approach to story development, emphasizing the iterative process of storyboarding and receiving feedback.

Key Points:

• Storyboarding and Drafts: Pixar creates multiple drafts, often around ten iterations, to refine the story.
• Feedback: Emphasis on showing rough drafts to fresh eyes for honest opinions. Feedback sessions can be both enlightening and demoralizing, but they are integral to the creative process.
• Handling Criticism: Pete discusses the emotional toll of receiving critical feedback and the importance of bouncing back to improve the work.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (08:38): "At Pixar, we try to save some people so that they're raw so they can see it for the first time and give an honest first timer opinion."

Pete Docter (09:32): "It's building up to the screening and you're like, this is going to kill. This is going to get us, you know, everyone's going to lift us on."

4. Challenges in Animation and Filmmaking

The dialogue explores the inherent challenges in animated filmmaking, from maintaining consistency to managing a large creative team.

Key Points:

• Consistency in World-Building: Ensuring the rules of the animated universe remain consistent throughout the story.
• Team Coordination: Directing a film with approximately 300 people requires effective communication and leadership.
• Creative Constraints: Balancing creative freedom with storytelling needs to avoid overwhelming the narrative with too many ideas.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (12:39): "All of them. The beginning is hard because if you don't hook people in the beginning, you never get. It's not like, I hate this character, but, oh, in the middle, I decided I love him. That never happens."

Pete Docter (32:15): "It's a little bit like a military structure. You have the director, then you have all these heads of each department, and if you communicate to them about certain things, they can disseminate the information to people."

5. The Impact of Technology and AI on Animation

Pete shares his thoughts on the role of technology in animation, particularly the potential and limitations of AI.

Key Points:

• AI in Animation: While AI can assist in various departments, Pete believes it currently produces “bland” or “average” results lacking the uniqueness of human creativity.
• Accessibility: Computers have democratized animation, making it easier for more people to become animators without necessarily being excellent draftspersons.
• Future of Animation: Uncertainty about AI’s evolving role but emphasizes the irreplaceable human touch in storytelling and performance.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (19:58): "Everything I've seen with AI at least so far, it looks like you took everything, shook it all up, give me the average and sanded the edges off. It feels kind of bland."

Pete Docter (20:55): "I don't think AI is going to be like, make film, enter. It's not going to do that."

6. Pixar’s Relationship with Disney and Steve Jobs

The episode delves into Pixar’s acquisition by Disney and the influence of Steve Jobs on the studio.

Key Points:

• Acquisition by Disney: Pete reflects on the mixed emotions of being acquired, balancing excitement with concerns about creative independence.
• Steve Jobs’ Influence: Steve Jobs played a significant role in Pixar’s marketing and business strategies, advocating for simplicity and elegance in communication.
• Personal Interactions: Pete shares a personal anecdote about having lunch with Steve Jobs multiple times, highlighting Jobs’ humility and dreams of reincarnation as a Pixar director.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (26:23): "Steve was pretty gentle. [...] One time he told me he hopes that he'll be reincarnated as a Pixar director." (00:00)

Pete Docter (27:11): "He is actually cutting down by, like, 70%. Child trafficking."

7. Advice for Aspiring Animators and Creatives

Pete offers valuable advice for those looking to pursue a career in animation, emphasizing passion and perseverance.

Key Points:

• Pursue Your Passion: Encourages young creatives to “do it” and invest time in honing their craft.
• Hard Work Over Talent: While talent is beneficial, sustained effort and enthusiasm are crucial for success.
• Authenticity: Finding one’s unique voice and style is essential, rather than trying to emulate others.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (40:12): "Do it, do it, do it. It's easier than ever."

Pete Docter (40:46): "I don't know what the proportion of that is, if it's just blind optimism or. I mean, obviously talent does get external reward from people."

8. Personal Insights and Anecdotes from Pete Docter

The conversation takes a personal turn as Pete shares memories from his childhood and pivotal moments in his career.

Key Points:

• Childhood Memories: Pete recalls making a Star Wars tribute film with dry ice and Darth Vader, underscoring his long-standing passion for storytelling and animation.
• Career Challenges: Discusses moments of self-doubt, such as trying to emulate John Lasseter’s directing style and facing physical setbacks like losing his voice during Monsters, Inc. production.
• Creative Evolution: Emphasizes the importance of developing his own creative identity separate from influences.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (47:01): "When I started directing on Monsters, I was trying to be John Lasseter, and a number of people kind of inadvertently fed that by saying, you know, when this happens to John, what he does is blank and blank, which I took as, oh, I'm crappy."

Pete Docter (46:05): "In the middle of that movie, I literally lost my voice for three months."

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Mike and Pete discuss philanthropic efforts and share their final pieces of wisdom.

Key Points:

• Philanthropy: Pete recommends supporting the International Justice Mission, an organization combating child trafficking and abuse globally.
• Final Advice: Pete reiterates the importance of doing what one loves over seeking financial gain, highlighting his journey to Pixar as a testament to following passion.

Notable Quotes:

Pete Docter (50:08): "International Justice Mission. Ijm. It was one that sort of like, wait, what? They send lawyers to different parts of the world."

Pete Docter (43:52): "Don't worry about making money. Do what you love."

Memorable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Community and Connection:

  Pete Docter (04:02): "What you need is community and connection with other people. And that's what the movie's about."

• On the Creative Process:

  Pete Docter (09:03): "There's always gonna be problems. I mean, I guess the wisdom is like, let's learn from this so we don't make that mistake. We can make new mistakes next time."

• On Technology and Animation:

  Pete Docter (19:58): "Everything I've seen with AI at least so far, it looks like you took everything, shook it all up, give me the average and sanded the edges off. It feels kind of bland."

• On Authenticity:

  Pete Docter (45:57): "I gotta do my own thing. I can't use his because he already thought of it. It's his thing already."

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rare glimpse into the mind of one of animation’s leading figures. Pete Docter’s insights reveal the dedication, challenges, and creative philosophies that drive Pixar’s success. From the initial spark of an idea to the painstaking process of storyboarding and feedback, Pete emphasizes the importance of passion, resilience, and authentic storytelling. Aspiring animators and creatives will find his advice both inspiring and practical, while fans of Pixar’s masterpieces will gain a deeper appreciation for the artistry behind their favorite films.

For those interested in exploring Pixar’s latest endeavors, Elio is currently in theaters. Stay tuned to Working It Out for more in-depth conversations with creative professionals.