185. Julio Torres: Off-Broadway, SNL, and Why Barbie Isn’t Pink

Mon Sep 22 2025

This week Mike sits down with Julio Torres to talk comedy writing and color theories. Based on ideas posited in Julio’s new Off-Broadway solo show, Color Theories, the two of them get to the bottom of what color Barbie the Movie, Martha Stewart, and Jeremy Strong are. They also discuss the behind-the-scenes story of Julio’s viral SNL sketch, “Papyrus” starring Ryan Gosling. Plus, two encounters Julio and Mike had at the gym that aren’t sitting right with them.

Transcript

Julio Torres (0:00)

People that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work. And sometimes it's hard to play as if, like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life?

Mike Birbiglia (0:11)

Yes, right?

Julio Torres (0:12)

Yes. And so I'm like, hey. And then they're like, hi, how's it going?

Mike Birbiglia (0:17)

Yeah, good.

Julio Torres (0:19)

And I was actually telling my partner that it's like, oh, one of these days I'm fully gonna, like, invite a stranger to my home. Like, I'm fully gonna.

Mike Birbiglia (0:29)

By accident. You mean like, because you're playing through the idea?

Julio Torres (0:34)

Oh, yeah. Or like, I'm fully end up going to go to a wedding of people who I have no idea who they are.

Mike Birbiglia (0:42)

As the voice of the great Julio Torres. We are so excited that Julio Torres, who we've wanted to have on the show for so long, finally made it to Working It Out Studio. He is a wildly creative writer performer. You might know him from his work on Los Espuques or his movie Problemista. I just saw his new solo show Color Theories at Performance Space New York. It's fantastic. It's wildly original. He wrote for snl. In fact, he wrote this brilliant iconic papyrus sketch with Ryan Gosling we talk about today. In case you're wondering whether this is a topical podcast, it is not a topical podcast. The episodes are evergreen. However, with the Kimmel stuff, last week I posted something on Instagram. If you don't have Instagram, I wrote something very simple. I wrote, I've spent a lot of time in public and private defending comedians I don't agree with. If you are a comedian and you don't call out the insanity of pulling Kimmel off the air, don't bother spouting off about free speech anymore. That's all I wrote. A bunch of news outlets asked me to come on their shows and talk about it. I don't really want to talk about it. I just have my little statement and I'll tell it. Just tell it to you as well. Also, special announcement. We have launched Working It Out Premium. Come on. This is an ad free version of the podcast available exclusively through Apple Podcasts. We just launched it. It's 4.99amonth. We finally did it and we. If you sign up for Working Out Premium, you get, number one, an ad free version of the podcast. No ads ever. Number two, you get to support the show.

Julio Torres (2:19)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out

Episode 185: Julio Torres: Off-Broadway, SNL, and Why Barbie Isn’t Pink
Release Date: September 22, 2025
Guests: Julio Torres (comedian, writer, creator of “Los Espookys,” “Problemista,” and the Off-Broadway solo show “Color Theories”)
Host: Mike Birbiglia

Episode Overview

In this lively, imaginative episode, Mike Birbiglia welcomes acclaimed comedian Julio Torres to the Working It Out Studio. Together, they dissect creativity, the emotional color palette behind self-expression, the perils of being “prescribed” emotions by entertainment, and the creative philosophy behind Torres’s original SNL “Papyrus” sketch and his show “Color Theories.” The conversation also veers through childhood anxieties, the realities of collaboration, artistic neuroses, and playful deep dives into seeing the world—and people—in metaphorical color rather than literal terms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Public Persona and Social Anxiety

Julio discusses how strangers feel kinship through his work, blurring the line between real acquaintances and fans.
- Quote: “People that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work. And sometimes it's hard to play as if, like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life?” – Julio Torres (00:00)
Reflects on the social pitfalls—“one day I might accidentally invite a stranger home or attend the wrong wedding” (00:19, 36:02).

2. Color as Metaphor for Conformity and Creativity

The genesis and reactions to Torres’s show “Color Theories,” where ‘navy blue’ becomes a metaphor for conformity.
- Torres laments being misunderstood literally, hoping to inspire “play and experimentation, not dread and fear” (03:24–04:00).
- Mike’s self-consciousness about wearing a colorful shirt to meet Julio (03:18).
Exploration of how color gets tied to artistic self-acceptance and the fraught journey out of adolescent conformity (04:13–05:06).

3. Childhood, Friendship, and Solitude

Julio recalls his solitary El Salvador childhood, his fourth-grade teacher’s failed attempts at “cool” engagement, and contentment in solitude.
- Quote: “Okay, once again, this is not the year I make friends. But I am so fine with that.” – Julio Torres (08:59)
Connection to performers who demand emotional response—both in teaching and comedy (06:09–08:21).

4. Authenticity vs. Manufactured Emotion in Comedy and Art

Both Mike and Julio bristle at comedy (and Hollywood movies) that “demand” or mathematicize emotion from audiences.
- Quote: “I really don’t like that. I’m really allergic to being prescribed an emotion.” – Julio Torres (11:01)
- Lightly roasts the “Pixar genre” for formulaic tearjerking (10:17–11:18).
Critique of entertainment industry’s push to recycle successful formulas (11:18).

5. Saturday Night Live, the ‘Papyrus’ Sketch & Creative Collaboration

Breaking down how the “Papyrus” sketch came together—born from a tweet, elevated by Ryan Gosling’s commitment.
- Quote: “He saw a character in it...this is a funny little character study on this person.” – Julio Torres (14:17)
Torres’s collaborative style: he values earnest performers who let the characters’ absurd fixations emerge organically (15:35–16:14).
Notes on SNL writers gravitating to airport/conference room sketches after success, “you stop living alive—you’re only ever at a conference room or an airport” (12:14).

6. Color Theories – A Non-Literal Exploration

“Color Theories” isn’t about literal color. Torres explores identity through how colors are perceived, not “what color are you?” but “what color do you perceive me as?” (17:20, 17:53, 18:01).
Assigning colors to public figures for fun, e.g.
- Barbie the Doll: “presents fuchsia, but is navy blue” (24:48)
- Barbie the Movie: “earnestly beige with hints of orange, it’s not pink” (25:06)
- Martha Stewart: “brand is lavender and lilac, but herself is a shiny navy blue” (25:24–25:57)
Addresses the “twee” label, i.e. the line between sincerity and performative cuteness (26:33–27:00).

7. Personal Fixations, OCD, and Hypochondria

Torres opens up about dealing with OCD and intense hypochondria—including “doctor shopping” and irrational fixations (20:47–22:53).
- Quote: “I've ended up going to seven doctors in three days...you become a little trickster, and you end up getting CAT scans you don’t need.” (21:07–22:42)
- On finding comedy/surrealism in his own behaviors, like choosing badly rated doctors (23:18).

8. Collaboration Fears and Perceived Aloofness

Despite being collaborative, Torres notes people sometimes find him intimidating or worry he’ll reject suggestions (29:27–30:19).
- Quote: “Sometimes it seems like I’m upset or something...people are trepidatious about approaching me.” – Julio Torres (29:27)
Mike agrees, explaining Torres’s specificity might make collaborators nervous (29:50–30:22).

9. Mental Health and Growth

Torres acknowledges past belief in being “sick and unwell” and credits medication for changing his outlook (30:35–30:51).
Discusses the lingering guilt from brief tense interactions with strangers and the lasting emotional impact of city life (31:12–32:32).
Fun filmmaking tidbit: in “Problemista,” he populates scenes with extras visibly experiencing unrelated personal crises (32:09).

10. Creative Process: From Notebook to Stage

The “Slow Round” segment throws out undeveloped jokes and stories for feedback:
- Mike’s musings on subconscious public dancing, locker room awkwardness, and steam room encounters (36:24–41:06).
- Julio’s gym locker anecdote: “Fucking freaks!”—meditating on social order and collective trust (41:52–43:40).
- Questions about hope and whether to admit when it feels lost, segueing into pop politics and the artifice of hope (“Madame President in Barbie font”) (44:09–45:21).

11. Giving Back

Torres highlights GLITS, a Black trans advocacy and direct services organization, as his charity of choice (45:29–45:56).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Julio Torres (on conformity):
“There’s a reason why men cloak themselves in navy blue. It’s saying, I see there is a system here. And it’s better if I’m just a part of it.” (04:49–05:05)
On enforced audience reaction:
“She was so needy. It just felt, like, emotionally draining to have to be in a constant state of performance, of awe of her.” – Julio Torres (06:54)
On novelty in comedy:
“It being novel was part of it working.” – Mike Birbiglia (11:42)
On color as identity:
“What color am I? Is the wrong question...It’s what color do you perceive me as?” – Julio Torres (17:53)
Barbie as a color metaphor:
“Barbie the doll is...presents fuchsia, but is navy blue.” – Julio Torres (24:48)
On being ‘cute’ or ‘twee’:
“I don’t want to seem like I am doing the math of coming off of being cute and heartfelt from a place that isn’t earnest.” – Julio Torres (26:43)
On mental health evolution:
“I think probably that I am sick and unwell...I don’t feel that way now. Medication.” – Julio Torres (30:35–30:51)
On hope and disenchantment:
“They say that, they say, if you want a better future, you should never give up hope. But I’ve given up hope. And I’m not sure if I’m supposed to say it, like, because I don’t want to slow down the hope train.” – Mike Birbiglia (44:09)

Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

00:00–02:19: Julio on the strangeness of being recognized by fans who treat him like a friend
03:17–05:15: Birbiglia’s color self-consciousness; Torres on freeing people from literal color interpretations
06:08–08:21: The “demanding” teacher archetype in both education and comedy
10:17–11:18: Critique of Pixar’s formulaic emotional beats
12:14–14:17: Inside the SNL “Papyrus” sketch; Gosling’s crucial role
17:02–20:45: “Color Theories” methodology; not asking “What color are you?” but “What do you perceive?”
20:47–22:42: Torres’s OCD/hypochondria stories
24:48–26:33: Assigning metaphorical colors to Barbie, Martha Stewart, etc.
29:12–30:22: Perceptions and anxieties around collaboration
30:35–30:51: Past beliefs about illness, medication, and growth
36:24–43:40: Trading raw stage ideas; locker room and social trust
45:29–45:56: Charity plug: GLITS

Tone and Style

The conversation is both playful and insightful, creative yet grounded in real anxieties and personal vulnerabilities.
Torres’s flights of whimsy are balanced by Birbiglia’s grounded, self-deprecating humor.
Both comedians openly share neuroses, artistic insecurities, and invite listeners inside the “workshopping” process, staying true to the podcast’s name and spirit.

For the Uninitiated

If you haven’t heard the episode, expect a mix of philosophical musings on creativity, the subtle politics of color and conformity, honest talk of mental health, and a peek into the behind-the-scenes making of comedy (from SNL to off-Broadway). It’s a must for comedy nerds, creative souls, or anyone wrestling with how to be truly themselves in a world of “navy blue.”

Links and Causes

GLITS (non-profit serving Black trans people): glitsinc.org