185. Julio Torres: Off-Broadway, SNL, and Why Barbie Isn’t Pink

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out

Episode 185: Julio Torres: Off-Broadway, SNL, and Why Barbie Isn’t Pink
Release Date: September 22, 2025
Guests: Julio Torres (comedian, writer, creator of “Los Espookys,” “Problemista,” and the Off-Broadway solo show “Color Theories”)
Host: Mike Birbiglia

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Episode Overview

In this lively, imaginative episode, Mike Birbiglia welcomes acclaimed comedian Julio Torres to the Working It Out Studio. Together, they dissect creativity, the emotional color palette behind self-expression, the perils of being “prescribed” emotions by entertainment, and the creative philosophy behind Torres’s original SNL “Papyrus” sketch and his show “Color Theories.” The conversation also veers through childhood anxieties, the realities of collaboration, artistic neuroses, and playful deep dives into seeing the world—and people—in metaphorical color rather than literal terms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Public Persona and Social Anxiety

• Julio discusses how strangers feel kinship through his work, blurring the line between real acquaintances and fans.
  • Quote: “People that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work. And sometimes it's hard to play as if, like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life?” – Julio Torres (00:00)
• Reflects on the social pitfalls—“one day I might accidentally invite a stranger home or attend the wrong wedding” (00:19, 36:02).

2. Color as Metaphor for Conformity and Creativity

• The genesis and reactions to Torres’s show “Color Theories,” where ‘navy blue’ becomes a metaphor for conformity.
  • Torres laments being misunderstood literally, hoping to inspire “play and experimentation, not dread and fear” (03:24–04:00).
  • Mike’s self-consciousness about wearing a colorful shirt to meet Julio (03:18).
• Exploration of how color gets tied to artistic self-acceptance and the fraught journey out of adolescent conformity (04:13–05:06).

3. Childhood, Friendship, and Solitude

• Julio recalls his solitary El Salvador childhood, his fourth-grade teacher’s failed attempts at “cool” engagement, and contentment in solitude.
  • Quote: “Okay, once again, this is not the year I make friends. But I am so fine with that.” – Julio Torres (08:59)
• Connection to performers who demand emotional response—both in teaching and comedy (06:09–08:21).

4. Authenticity vs. Manufactured Emotion in Comedy and Art

• Both Mike and Julio bristle at comedy (and Hollywood movies) that “demand” or mathematicize emotion from audiences.
  • Quote: “I really don’t like that. I’m really allergic to being prescribed an emotion.” – Julio Torres (11:01)
  • Lightly roasts the “Pixar genre” for formulaic tearjerking (10:17–11:18).
• Critique of entertainment industry’s push to recycle successful formulas (11:18).

5. Saturday Night Live, the ‘Papyrus’ Sketch & Creative Collaboration

• Breaking down how the “Papyrus” sketch came together—born from a tweet, elevated by Ryan Gosling’s commitment.
  • Quote: “He saw a character in it...this is a funny little character study on this person.” – Julio Torres (14:17)
• Torres’s collaborative style: he values earnest performers who let the characters’ absurd fixations emerge organically (15:35–16:14).
• Notes on SNL writers gravitating to airport/conference room sketches after success, “you stop living alive—you’re only ever at a conference room or an airport” (12:14).

6. Color Theories – A Non-Literal Exploration

• “Color Theories” isn’t about literal color. Torres explores identity through how colors are perceived, not “what color are you?” but “what color do you perceive me as?” (17:20, 17:53, 18:01).
• Assigning colors to public figures for fun, e.g.
  • Barbie the Doll: “presents fuchsia, but is navy blue” (24:48)
  • Barbie the Movie: “earnestly beige with hints of orange, it’s not pink” (25:06)
  • Martha Stewart: “brand is lavender and lilac, but herself is a shiny navy blue” (25:24–25:57)
• Addresses the “twee” label, i.e. the line between sincerity and performative cuteness (26:33–27:00).

7. Personal Fixations, OCD, and Hypochondria

• Torres opens up about dealing with OCD and intense hypochondria—including “doctor shopping” and irrational fixations (20:47–22:53).
  • Quote: “I've ended up going to seven doctors in three days...you become a little trickster, and you end up getting CAT scans you don’t need.” (21:07–22:42)
  • On finding comedy/surrealism in his own behaviors, like choosing badly rated doctors (23:18).

8. Collaboration Fears and Perceived Aloofness

• Despite being collaborative, Torres notes people sometimes find him intimidating or worry he’ll reject suggestions (29:27–30:19).
  • Quote: “Sometimes it seems like I’m upset or something...people are trepidatious about approaching me.” – Julio Torres (29:27)
• Mike agrees, explaining Torres’s specificity might make collaborators nervous (29:50–30:22).

9. Mental Health and Growth

• Torres acknowledges past belief in being “sick and unwell” and credits medication for changing his outlook (30:35–30:51).
• Discusses the lingering guilt from brief tense interactions with strangers and the lasting emotional impact of city life (31:12–32:32).
• Fun filmmaking tidbit: in “Problemista,” he populates scenes with extras visibly experiencing unrelated personal crises (32:09).

10. Creative Process: From Notebook to Stage

• The “Slow Round” segment throws out undeveloped jokes and stories for feedback:
  • Mike’s musings on subconscious public dancing, locker room awkwardness, and steam room encounters (36:24–41:06).
  • Julio’s gym locker anecdote: “Fucking freaks!”—meditating on social order and collective trust (41:52–43:40).
  • Questions about hope and whether to admit when it feels lost, segueing into pop politics and the artifice of hope (“Madame President in Barbie font”) (44:09–45:21).

11. Giving Back

• Torres highlights GLITS, a Black trans advocacy and direct services organization, as his charity of choice (45:29–45:56).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Julio Torres (on conformity):
  “There’s a reason why men cloak themselves in navy blue. It’s saying, I see there is a system here. And it’s better if I’m just a part of it.” (04:49–05:05)

• On enforced audience reaction:
  “She was so needy. It just felt, like, emotionally draining to have to be in a constant state of performance, of awe of her.” – Julio Torres (06:54)

• On novelty in comedy:
  “It being novel was part of it working.” – Mike Birbiglia (11:42)

• On color as identity:
  “What color am I? Is the wrong question...It’s what color do you perceive me as?” – Julio Torres (17:53)

• Barbie as a color metaphor:
  “Barbie the doll is...presents fuchsia, but is navy blue.” – Julio Torres (24:48)

• On being ‘cute’ or ‘twee’:
  “I don’t want to seem like I am doing the math of coming off of being cute and heartfelt from a place that isn’t earnest.” – Julio Torres (26:43)

• On mental health evolution:
  “I think probably that I am sick and unwell...I don’t feel that way now. Medication.” – Julio Torres (30:35–30:51)

• On hope and disenchantment:
  “They say that, they say, if you want a better future, you should never give up hope. But I’ve given up hope. And I’m not sure if I’m supposed to say it, like, because I don’t want to slow down the hope train.” – Mike Birbiglia (44:09)

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Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

• 00:00–02:19: Julio on the strangeness of being recognized by fans who treat him like a friend
• 03:17–05:15: Birbiglia’s color self-consciousness; Torres on freeing people from literal color interpretations
• 06:08–08:21: The “demanding” teacher archetype in both education and comedy
• 10:17–11:18: Critique of Pixar’s formulaic emotional beats
• 12:14–14:17: Inside the SNL “Papyrus” sketch; Gosling’s crucial role
• 17:02–20:45: “Color Theories” methodology; not asking “What color are you?” but “What do you perceive?”
• 20:47–22:42: Torres’s OCD/hypochondria stories
• 24:48–26:33: Assigning metaphorical colors to Barbie, Martha Stewart, etc.
• 29:12–30:22: Perceptions and anxieties around collaboration
• 30:35–30:51: Past beliefs about illness, medication, and growth
• 36:24–43:40: Trading raw stage ideas; locker room and social trust
• 45:29–45:56: Charity plug: GLITS

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Tone and Style

• The conversation is both playful and insightful, creative yet grounded in real anxieties and personal vulnerabilities.
• Torres’s flights of whimsy are balanced by Birbiglia’s grounded, self-deprecating humor.
• Both comedians openly share neuroses, artistic insecurities, and invite listeners inside the “workshopping” process, staying true to the podcast’s name and spirit.

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For the Uninitiated

If you haven’t heard the episode, expect a mix of philosophical musings on creativity, the subtle politics of color and conformity, honest talk of mental health, and a peek into the behind-the-scenes making of comedy (from SNL to off-Broadway). It’s a must for comedy nerds, creative souls, or anyone wrestling with how to be truly themselves in a world of “navy blue.”

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Links and Causes

• GLITS (non-profit serving Black trans people): glitsinc.org

Transcript

[Julio Torres]

People that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work. And sometimes it's hard to play as if, like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, right?

[Julio Torres]

Yes. And so I'm like, hey. And then they're like, hi, how's it going?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, good.

[Julio Torres]

And I was actually telling my partner that it's like, oh, one of these days I'm fully gonna, like, invite a stranger to my home. Like, I'm fully gonna.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By accident. You mean like, because you're playing through the idea?

[Julio Torres]

Oh, yeah. Or like, I'm fully end up going to go to a wedding of people who I have no idea who they are.

[Mike Birbiglia]

As the voice of the great Julio Torres. We are so excited that Julio Torres, who we've wanted to have on the show for so long, finally made it to Working It Out Studio. He is a wildly creative writer performer. You might know him from his work on Los Espuques or his movie Problemista. I just saw his new solo show Color Theories at Performance Space New York. It's fantastic. It's wildly original. He wrote for snl. In fact, he wrote this brilliant iconic papyrus sketch with Ryan Gosling we talk about today. In case you're wondering whether this is a topical podcast, it is not a topical podcast. The episodes are evergreen. However, with the Kimmel stuff, last week I posted something on Instagram. If you don't have Instagram, I wrote something very simple. I wrote, I've spent a lot of time in public and private defending comedians I don't agree with. If you are a comedian and you don't call out the insanity of pulling Kimmel off the air, don't bother spouting off about free speech anymore. That's all I wrote. A bunch of news outlets asked me to come on their shows and talk about it. I don't really want to talk about it. I just have my little statement and I'll tell it. Just tell it to you as well. Also, special announcement. We have launched Working It Out Premium. Come on. This is an ad free version of the podcast available exclusively through Apple Podcasts. We just launched it. It's 4.99amonth. We finally did it and we. If you sign up for Working Out Premium, you get, number one, an ad free version of the podcast. No ads ever. Number two, you get to support the show.

[Julio Torres]

We work really hard on it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We got a staff. We make it sound really nice for you and look really nice on YouTube. Number three, bonus content. We will be releasing bonus content for our subscribers, who I am calling Secret Public subscribers. We're going to have more in depth Q and A's. We're going to have bonus discussions with guests. I'm going to write some more essays and secret public journal entries. And so you will get all of the deep dive stuff. I love this talk with Julio Torres. We talk about colors. We talk about the Papyrus sketch and its sequel. Enjoy my conversation with the great Julio Torres. I was self conscious today. I put on a more colorful shirt than I would have. And it's not impressive, but it's better than what your show has a lot of criticisms of navy blue. Not as a literal color, but as a concept.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you have a color themed show. And so then I get self conscious. Do you find people getting self conscious around you about color?

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, and I wish I could free people from that because it's. To be self conscious about it is too literal of an interpretation. And I know of what I'm doing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm even embarrassed admitting it. Cause I know I'm being too literal.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. But then it becomes this thing. But you know what? I hope that it. I can only hope that I invite play and experimentation and not like dread and fear.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. I don't want to be like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The colors are.

[Julio Torres]

The colors are.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Julio Torres]

I don't want to be the colors are. Or like, I would assume people think about around like an Anna Wintour or something like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Julio Torres]

I don't want to just. Just be you. Just be you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just be you. Do you feel like it took a long time for you to just be you, or were you always, like, growing up like this? Which is. When I say this, I mean it was always artistic, experimentational, you know, like creative. You always have it.

[Julio Torres]

Childhood. Yes. And then I lost it in adolescence. I think I lost it in adolescence. And in that sort of like, useless effort to try and, like, be like the rest.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Julio Torres]

And then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which is navy blue, right?

[Julio Torres]

Which is navy blue. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To be regimented.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To be a follower of sorts.

[Julio Torres]

To be a follower of sorts. To want to like. I mean, I feel like there's a reason why men cloak themselves in navy blue. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because it's like, blending in.

[Julio Torres]

It's saying, I see there is a system here. And it. And it's better if I'm just a part of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

But, yeah, I lost it a little bit in adolescence, but then I found that again in adulthood.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Late adolescence. Adulthood.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That makes sense.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did any. When you had it when you. When you lost an adolescence, did anyone notice? Like, did anyone call you out on it? Your friends or anything?

[Julio Torres]

No, I didn't have friends.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No friends?

[Julio Torres]

I didn't. I. Not really.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You grew up in El Salvador, right?

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Not really. And I. I distinctly. I actually distinctly remember in the fourth grade, for whatever reason, the fourth grade was very important for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Me, too. Huge.

[Julio Torres]

Really?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Huge grade. Yep. Mrs. Sinkowicz. Shout out.

[Julio Torres]

Mrs. Sinkowicz, you were my.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She's my teacher. Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Oh, wow. I didn't all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you remember your teacher's name? Okay.

[Julio Torres]

No, I remember, but here's what I remember about her. She was one of my least favorite variants of teachers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, sure.

[Julio Torres]

Which.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Describe the variant.

[Julio Torres]

I mean. I mean, first of all, shout out to all the teachers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, of course. Of course. Respect to all the teachers.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she really made a very, I thought, burdensome attempt to be cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

And to be.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I know that teacher liked.

[Julio Torres]

And so there were, like, voices. There was a guitar, there was a puppet. And I just felt like I couldn't emotionally access what she was selling.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. I get that.

[Julio Torres]

And I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's almost like you needed. She was demanding more of a reaction to you than you even had.

[Julio Torres]

She was so needy. I know. It just felt, like, emotionally draining to have to be in a constant state of performance, of awe of her.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, I'm going to circle back to teachers, but I think you're hitting on a thing that drives me nuts about some performers of comedy.

[Julio Torres]

This is why people shiver at the idea of going to, like, a comedian party. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When the comedian asks more of you than they're giving you.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It drives me nuts.

[Julio Torres]

And this is something. I don't know if you've ever felt like this in performing, but, like, at least the opening night of my show, it felt humiliating because I'm so hard.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Opening night's terrible.

[Julio Torres]

This feels like my, like, bar mitzvah quinceanera. Like, I'm asking all these people to come and look at me. All these people who, by the way, because it's opening night, I know at least 50% of them in the audience. So it just feels like. Like I'm putting a gun to their head and be like, laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, it's terrible. Yeah. You're inviting people weirdly to your birthday, and it's like, not your birthday. It's a day you're deciding is your birthday.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. It all feels like it's this day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know my birthday's in June, but this year it's in March.

[Julio Torres]

There's something that just feels so, like, thirsty about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right about opening night. And also your fourth grade teacher, who is kind of guitar and presentation and just demanding so much reaction.

[Julio Torres]

And demanding so much reaction. So I felt like she was creating a. An atmosphere in which joy was the only acceptable response. But anyway, at some point very early in the school year, I remember thinking, I like, vividly, I can see where I was walking. We were like, the whole class was walking somewhere. And I thought, okay, once again, this is not the year I make friends. But I am so fine with that. Yeah, I'm so fine with that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting.

[Julio Torres]

I'm like. I was like. I let.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a big breakthrough.

[Julio Torres]

It was a huge breakthrough. I was like, I'm letting go of this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you enjoyed. You enjoyed the solitude.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Because I was one of those kids that, like, never stops walking during recess. I don't know if that's a type of kid.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Julio Torres]

But. Okay. I just never stopped walking during music.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Makes sense. So that avoiding connection.

[Julio Torres]

Well, not avoiding connection. It was so that teachers wouldn't clock that I was standing by myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Julio Torres]

So I was always, oh, maybe he's walking over to a friend that I don't see because the friend is out of sight. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's interesting because you're. You Talk about your 4th grade teacher being very, like, presentational, demanding. Demanding something from the audience. But that's one of.

[Julio Torres]

That's literally what I'm doing, is that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We'Re saying that's what you're describing.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, but I'm saying. No, no, you're the opposite. Your show.

[Julio Torres]

Okay, good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is it tracks? Because I'm like. When I'm at your show, I don't feel any pressure. It's my favorite type of show, which is. I don't feel any pressure to have a specific reaction to, like, laugh at a specific moment or cheer at a specific moment. It's just like the journey of, like, it feels like. To go back to the phrase earlier, it's like you being you. And we're there, too.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. I don't love it when. And you can tell when something feels like it is calculating an emotional reaction out of the audience. And it's doing the math, whether it's like comedy math or, like, tears or, like. Which is why I like, you know, I like, make fun of, like, the sort of like, Pixar genre. Right, Right. Because it is, you know, in its, like, unsuccessful versions, you feel where the script math says you should cry here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

And I really don't like that. I'm really allergic to being prescribed an emotion. And it's hard to like, I mean, with entertainment, it's so hard to. This sort of obsession which is driven by capital. Right. Of like having to recreate something that worked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

So it's like an artist earnestly comes up with something that is good and interesting and new and then that works. And I'm defining works as like, creates money.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

And so it's like, oh, let's do it again and let's do it again and let's do it again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know.

[Julio Torres]

And let's do it again. And it's like. Right. But like, it being novel was part of it working.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, in other words, like, if you look at like someone who's like, really wealthy from being an artist, you're kind of like, well, they repeated the thing that worked and thus they're not actually doing the thing that made them the thing.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Or like, I always notice, like, second or third year Saturday Night Live writers, suddenly everything, everything they write is like set in a conference room or an airport. And it's like. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Cause you, you understand what gets on.

[Julio Torres]

No. But also you stop living alive. So now you're only ever at a conference room or an airport.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yes. And an airport.

[Julio Torres]

Right. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really funny. Like, I was looking at the font sketch that you did for. Wrote for snl.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Papyrus. Papyrus, yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so funny and it's so unlike anything that any sketch on snl. And I was curious, like, what was the pitch? Like, what was the pitch? Who did you pitch it to? You pitched to Ryan Gosling. You pitch it to the host and then, like, did you think it would get on? And then how'd you feel when it got on?

[Julio Torres]

It was the. So they do a pitch meeting where, like, the host sits and like every writer and performer pitches an idea. But that is more of a. That is more of a, like an icebreaker for the week for the, for the, for the celebrity host to feel like, oh, this is funny. I'm in a group full of funny people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

So people say things that they don't earnestly mean to make anything with because you're just trying to like make a room laugh, basically. So it's, it can become like a one liner festival.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Julio Torres]

And I had a, a tweet back when I had Twitter that was about that I couldn't fall asleep because Avatar used papyrus as the font. And then I said that and Ryan Gosling really loved it. And then I just Sort of like, went about my day. And then he was like, no, but let's do that. And I'm thinking. And I'm thinking, well, that isn't anything. That is. That is a thought. That is not. But he saw a character in it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, he saw a character in it. And then I was like, okay. And I started writing, and I was like, okay, this is a funny little character study on this person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

And I remember writing it and thinking, like, I don't know what this is, or, like, I didn't know what it was, but it was just sort of like, meh. But then. And like, seeing him perform it and how he committed to it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

With such a level of earnest that it was really beautiful to see. And then. And then. Yeah, it was very watched.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you ever see him? Do you ever run into him and go, hey, remember when Papyrus.

[Julio Torres]

I definitely don't run into him, but I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, the way people run into Ryan Gosling.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. I mean, I think we live very different lives. But I saw him again when he recently hosted it again, and we did a sequel to it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Julio Torres]

So that's the last time I saw him, when he was like, should we do a sequel to it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

And once again, I was like, why? And then. And then wrote it, and it was like, okay, this was fun. Yeah, he was right again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you like in a collaborator? What's a quality you like in a collaborator? What's the thing that drives you nuts in a collaborator?

[Julio Torres]

I feel like I'm lucky to attract people that really want to, like, co create something and act, or not as puppet, but as, like, co creator of something. And I like when they take the work in earnest and they're not attempting to come off as anything other than sincere for the character. Because I think that is where what I do is funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Julio Torres]

That these are, like, real.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's not a cartoon. It's not a cartoon.

[Julio Torres]

These are real human beings. And if you flesh out a real human being that is so, so preoccupied with something so ridiculous, then. Then it becomes funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Like, I never was able to write the kind of sketch that I loved Saturday Night Live for, which is like, bigger, broader, outlandish characters.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Julio Torres]

Like, I love Donatella Versace. Maya Rudolph has Donatella Versace. Or like. Or like, you know, like a target lady or something like that. But I was never able to do that. But I always, like, that was like candy to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. That's what hooked you in. That's interesting. So can you describe to people your current show If. If people haven't seen it at all.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, yeah, of course. It is called Color Theories, in which I attempt to use colors as a way to explain the world around us.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That. That seems right.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's not. And. And to be clear, it's not literal.

[Julio Torres]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, in other words, this is a shirt that has oranges and blues and things in it. But. But that's not how. Maybe you'd see me. What color would you see me as? Or do you see me as?

[Julio Torres]

I think. I think that. And this is something that I ended up not putting in the show, but I think that what color am I? Is the wrong question.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wrong question, obviously. Obviously. Gary, take these away.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's. What color do you perceive me as?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Julio Torres]

Or what color am I coming off as?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What color am I coming off as?

[Julio Torres]

I think you're coming. I think that in my limited sample size of you, I think that it's like a. I think it's like a bluish green.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. It's, like, orderly, but it's also understanding.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that's the green.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm gonna have a crisis.

[Julio Torres]

You don't. You don't like that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because I. My concern is that the show is so judgmental. Of what? Navy blue.

[Julio Torres]

Oh. Oh, my show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That I'm concerned that I'm even getting close to blue, that I'm even veering towards navy blue.

[Julio Torres]

But I do think that we all have these colors.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Julio Torres]

That really freed you. You really like that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julio Torres]

I was worried I could feel the release.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. Ever since I saw your show, it's a really beautiful show in so many ways. 1. I mean, the design is tremendous. The design itself is tremendous. But one of the things that the show does that nothing else. So few things do is nothing's like it. Nothing's like your show. There's literally. You see a lot of solo shows and you go, oh, that reminds me of this. Reminds me of this. Which reminds me of this. Your show is just like. Oh, yeah. There's not. There's nothing even similar. It's like an. It's an exploration of color. Not even in a literal sense.

[Julio Torres]

An exploration of color. With an asterisk.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Asterisks. And then the bottom says not color.

[Julio Torres]

Not color. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, so what do you. What do you think you come off as, color wise?

[Julio Torres]

I think to an audience, I come off as, like. As this sort of like a multicolored sort of like wizard of Oz sort of thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Julio Torres]

But I Think that I'm a lot. I think that my soul is actually a lot. I think there's actually a lot of gray in me. And I think that I am constantly, like, between knowing and not knowing. And, like, I think that I'm a lot more anxious than people think I am. And I think that I'm very, like, preoccupied with things and very, like, fixated with things. I think I can be a lot more neurotic than people think I am. And it just so happens that I found, like, different tools.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's your most embarrassing fixation?

[Julio Torres]

I mean, I have. I. Okay, so I have ocd. So there's been a long list of those. I was for a while, and I think I'm definitely getting better now. Been an intense hypochondriac.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Julio Torres]

Intense. Intense. Intense ocd.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you're a hypochondriac.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a challenging combination.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Yes. I. I ended up going to, like, seven doctors in three days. Because the thing about Sock Doc is, like, they don't stop you. Like, once you realize that, like, doctors don't tell on each other, you can go. You can go to, like, a whole new doctor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So true.

[Julio Torres]

And, like, you have to go through.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your primary care doctor to get to that doctor.

[Julio Torres]

What primary care doctor?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, you don't have one?

[Julio Torres]

I have, like, whomever comes up first, whomever is available, Whomever, whatever doctor in New York City is available within the next few hours is. Becomes my primary.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You just pay cash because you can't have it paid for by insurance. Right. If it's not referred.

[Julio Torres]

Okay, I have no idea. I have no idea. I just go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm telling you. You're telling me. I've never had them be like, hey, no one referred you.

[Julio Torres]

I walk in, I walk out, and then I get a bunch of mail that I don't open.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know how many. Because I've talked a lot about my ailments through the years. You know how many doctors I've gone to, and they're like, we can't see you because you haven't been referred by the proper blah, blah, blah. But you've never had that. If you.

[Julio Torres]

If you are. If you, like me, have ocd, anxiety, and hypochondria, then you unfortunately become clever enough to trickster. You become a little trickster, and you end up getting CAT scans that you don't need. Oh, God. An hour after you decided you wanted.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To have, you had a CAT scan that felt completely unnecessary.

[Julio Torres]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What was the ailment?

[Julio Torres]

Well, it ended up being a herniated disc.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Julio Torres]

So that was a real thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's real.

[Julio Torres]

But also like one. One of the things that I kept doing was for whatever reason, if I am looking for, like a service of some kind, be a doctor or like a dry cleaner or whatever, and I see that something has like a really, really bad reviews, I go to that one because I'm like, oh, well, surely this person's a genius.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is out the logic of that.

[Julio Torres]

It's like, well, obviously this person is a genius and no one understands them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No one gets them.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, because everyone's an idiot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because deep down, you're like a low rated. A low rated performer or something.

[Julio Torres]

I guess.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you're like, that's who I am or something.

[Julio Torres]

Maybe.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Although you're not. You're like a accoladed performer. I mean, that piece about you in the New York Times was like a. It was like a different. A different publication altogether. Like, they decided. They decided to be.

[Julio Torres]

They decided to be a magazine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. Magazine.

[Julio Torres]

An EP of this thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When you. When you are, like, the way that you talk in interviews, it's sometimes so whimsical. It's like, I want to make a. I want to make a theme park. I want to, you know, do, like, your aspirations are so big and grand.

[Julio Torres]

Definitely a ride.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Creative and. Yeah, but my feeling is like, my question is, like, what is your most boring thought?

[Julio Torres]

Well, I don't know if it's boring, but I'm definitely one of those, like, check the stove three times before you leave the house.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I'm huge on that.

[Julio Torres]

Okay. I never touch. I don't cook, so I never touch the stove. No one ever touches the stove. The stove has never been touched.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's fully ocd.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You don't cook and you're always checking the stove. And I'm always checking the stove. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What colors do the following people give off? Barbie the doll. Barbie the doll.

[Julio Torres]

Okay. Obviously Barbie the doll is. I mean, she's a product. Right? So. So. So it's like. I think it's like presents fuchsia, but is navy blue.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Correct?

[Julio Torres]

Correct. Yeah. Check.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Barbie the movie.

[Julio Torres]

Barbie the movie. I think it's like. I think it's earnestly beige, which is like heartfelt, I think, with hints of orange, which is, like, fun. It's not pink.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Martha Stewart.

[Julio Torres]

Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart definitely has made money off of lavender and lilac. Right. Like, that is the brand. Right. But Martha Stewart herself. I'm trying to think. I try to attribute a Color to being determined. And I don't think it's as simple as saying it's navy blue, because there's something a lot more ingenious to her than that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I get that it's navy blue, but it's more complex than that.

[Julio Torres]

It's a shiny navy blue.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Sheer.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Jay Z. Orange. Jeremy Strong.

[Julio Torres]

I think my emotional reaction immediately, a gray. Extremely preoccupied with black and white, like, constantly in search for answers and running away from black.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wes Anderson.

[Julio Torres]

Mmm. I mean, the man loves brown. Right. But I think he is, I think, like a pale green.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's funny, like, one of the things you point out in the show is you're like, I don't want to be twee. But then I was like, wait, how do we define twee? How do you define it?

[Julio Torres]

I guess what I'm saying when I say I don't want to be twee is I don't want to seem like I am doing the math of coming off of being, like, cute and heartfelt right out of a place that isn't earnest.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How do you. It's kind of similar what we were talking about earlier of, like, repeating the same art that you like, because a lot of people would say, like, you are cute. Right?

[Julio Torres]

Sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They would go like, oh, that's really cute.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, he's adorable.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But that's obviously not your intent. That's just a byproduct of what happens sometimes.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I would say that's probably true of Wes Anderson, too.

[Julio Torres]

I think so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think. I think. I think at his core, he's like, I love trains.

[Julio Torres]

I love trains. And also, like, I want to talk about suicide.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Julio Torres]

So. And it's like, stop calling me cute.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Stop calling me cute. Working it out is brought to you by Helix. Gotta love Helix, one of our original sponsors. I've had my Helix mattress for five years and counting. Still as comfortable as the very first time I slept on it. As you know, I obsess about sleep. I think about it a lot. I've got a sleepwalking disorder, although in pretty good shape these days, and I get a great night's sleep on the Helix mattress. It's always exactly the right temperature. Here's a few things I love about my Helix mattress. It shows up in a box. I've talked about this before. Getting a mattress into your house or your apartment is a huge pain. It is a very heavy item. In this case, it shows up in a box. You open the box, boom, you got a mattress. Helix mattresses are affordable, but if that's not in the cards for you right now. They also have mattress toppers. With Helix mattress toppers, you can add luxury, comfort or a personalized feel to any mattress. Here's what I think you should do. Go to helixsleep.combrbigs for. For 25% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com burbigs for 25% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you helixsleep.com burbigs this is called the slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you?

[Julio Torres]

Okay. By people. I'm gonna narrow it down to, like, working with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mm.

[Julio Torres]

I think that maybe people like that I'm collaborative.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mm.

[Julio Torres]

And maybe a not so good trait is that I think sometimes it seems like I'm upset or something. Or like, sometimes. Sometimes I feel that people are trepidatious about approaching me or something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I get that.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I would be trepidatious if I worked with you.

[Julio Torres]

If you worked with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I'll tell you why. Because I feel like not because anything you're giving off, but because your work is so specific, your mind is so specific, that to me, I would be afraid that if I had a thought or a suggestion that it would be. The reaction would be like, what? No.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. I definitely. I can sense when someone has that fear and showing me something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's not what we're doing.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. It's like, what is this? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's something you believed 10 years ago, but you don't believe now?

[Julio Torres]

Oh, my God. That's a beautiful question. I think probably that I am sick and unwell.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You believe that 10 years ago?

[Julio Torres]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you don't feel that way now?

[Julio Torres]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you arrive at that?

[Julio Torres]

Medication.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Was it hard for you to get on medication? Is it hard for you to get there? The idea of it.

[Julio Torres]

It was a year since it was suggested.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A year of people saying, you should do this, and you saying no.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When is the time? You didn't apologize, but you wish you did.

[Julio Torres]

Whenever I have a tense moment with a stranger, they stay with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Accidents happen sometimes in New York City, you do you catch someone.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

At their breaking point because we're all so close to one another.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. And I don't know what this person's day. Life year.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I used to have a joke about how sometimes you. This is one of the strangest things about living in New York City is that there's so many people breaking up outside.

[Julio Torres]

Benches, park benches, stoops.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I say because it's too expensive to break up indoors.

[Julio Torres]

You know, I. Yeah, I know. It's also too volatile. Right. Because then someone has to leave. True. But I. In. In the film I made in this is, like, funny that you bring it up in Problemista. Something I really wanted to do and succeeded in some cases is having extras in the background.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Going very visibly going through a problem. Very, very, very, very visibly going through a problem that we don't address that are not part of the story at all. And there was a scene where I was so excited to do this. I was so excited to do this. And I. I was like, I'm gonna have a couple breaking up in a stoop as the characters in the foreground are doing something else. But because, you know, there's this whole set of rules regarding directors and extras. So you can't really talk to the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Extras when you're the director, according to union rules.

[Julio Torres]

Correct.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it's the second assistant director who's allowed to speak with the extras.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Background actors.

[Julio Torres]

And the reason why is that is then. Then if the director is talking to the background actor, then they are then now an actor, and now production has to pay them, and they don't want to do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right. That's right.

[Julio Torres]

So anyway, I was like, okay, we're gonna have a couple breaking up. We're gonna have a couple breaking up. And there is a couple breaking up in a stoop. But they are so not believable that they were ever a couple. That it just doesn't. It just seems like two people that have absolutely nothing in common sitting next to each other.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

I was like, no, like, give me the most, like, heteronormative, like, man and woman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

To make it like. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you find. Cause you started the movie and directed the movie and wrote the movie.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you find doing all of those things? Cause I did that with Sleepwalk With Me. I found it to be so hard.

[Julio Torres]

I enjoyed it. I thought it was easier than the alternative, which is, like, have a director be, like, my proxy or something. Or if I had to give up one of those three jobs, I would give up the acting part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Acting was the hardest part. Acting was the hardest part by far.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I had the same thing.

[Julio Torres]

I don't know my lines. I can't repeat the same blocking to save my life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I made myself a smaller part in my second movie. Don't think twice. And the movie I'm writing right now, I'm not acting in because to me, my brain can't at a certain point, can't do it.

[Julio Torres]

Well, it just, to me, at least it doesn't dawn on me that I was like, all right, I have to act. Til like the camera's in front of me and I'm like, all right, I have to act. What did I do? What did I do?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What did I do? Yeah. When's the time that you were caught in a lie?

[Julio Torres]

Constantly, constantly, constantly, constantly. When I am bluffing that I remember someone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Nice seeing you again versus nice meeting you.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, yeah. And then it's like. And then you can tell that they see in my eyes that I have no idea.

[Mike Birbiglia]

My daughter has an impression of me and she goes, dad, this is you. Nice to see you.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. You know, actually like, you know, because. And I love it, I'm very honored to have it. But there is, you know, people feel, people that have never met me feel some kind of kinship to me through my work. Right. And sometimes it's hard to place if like, is this someone I met at a party or is this someone who I've never met in my life?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Julio Torres]

And so I'm like, hey, yeah. And then, and then they're like, hi. And I'm like, how's it going? Yeah, good. And I was actually, I was actually telling my partner that's like, oh, one of these days I'm fully going to like invite a stranger to my home. Like I'm fully going to by accident.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You mean like because you're, you're playing through the idea?

[Julio Torres]

Oh, yeah. Or like I'm fully end up going to go to a wedding of people who. I have no idea who they are.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is material. And if you have anything you're working on, throw it out as well. Okay. I was at breakfast at my hotel, this is in Vancouver. The other day I was in twere and I was inadvertently dancing in my seat and I didn't know it until the waitress caught my eye and I was dancing and I had to make a split second decision. Do I stop dancing or do I continue dancing? Because it was at that moment where I had to decide, am I a dancer or was I a dancer? That's all I have.

[Julio Torres]

I love it. I don't think you should. You should. Don't explain any of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you think just throw it on stage?

[Julio Torres]

Just throw it on stage and keep moving.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's interesting. I will try. Based on Your vote of confidence. I will try it. I was thinking about it in relation to. Maybe it's a larger macro thing about myself. I always try and think of, why am I writing that down? And I think it's that so many things in my life are like that.

[Julio Torres]

Am I a dancer or was I a dancer? Is a beautiful sentence.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Julio Torres]

Especially coming from you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why do you say that?

[Julio Torres]

Because it's. Because, first of all, the image of you dancing by yourself is funny and.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Maybe could end the show.

[Julio Torres]

What?

[Mike Birbiglia]

And maybe could end the show.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If that was a joke that worked strong up front, you could end with a dance sequence. Oh, you know what I mean? You could properly choreograph a dance sequence.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's nice.

[Julio Torres]

Was the dance a little, like, wiggle in your chair?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it was like. It was like moving to the music that was on, you know?

[Julio Torres]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was at a gym in a steam room, trying to get my voice ready for a show, and someone threw water on the steam catcher thing. And then all of a sudden, there was a ton of steam in the room, and I couldn't even see two feet in front of me. And then there was about probably five guys in there. And then I heard a bunch of friction and then maybe some lube. And then I heard someone say, oh, God, yes. And I thought, maybe they're fans.

[Julio Torres]

I love that. Because it's also interesting to wonder, like, was that because of you or in spite of you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think in spite of me, I do. Yeah. That's a great point. I think that's a great point. My inner monologue was like, wait, was I.

[Julio Torres]

Was that in spite of me or was that because of me? Am I so seen or am I so invisible?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. That's a beautiful phrase. Am I so seen or am I so invisible?

[Julio Torres]

Have I. Yeah, it's like, have I shifted the energy in the room or am I just so irrelevant to the energy in the room?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right. Maybe.

[Julio Torres]

Maybe something like. Wait, sorry. Maybe something like. I heard lube and I. And then. Oh, God. Is that. What is that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julio Torres]

I heard lube and then I heard, oh, God. And I thought, wow, I. I wish someone would appreciate me for my mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's funny. Yeah, yeah. Or just simply, I get. I'm looking good. I thought, I am looking good.

[Julio Torres]

I'm tired of being objective.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's funny because that. That same locker room, I had an incident that I have not been able to make funny at all. But I wrote it down. I wrote it. I wrote all the things down. That one was. I was walking to the steam room. There was a guy kind of, like, shouting into his phone, like, Kind of like on a business call, like, pacing.

[Julio Torres]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, And. And then when I went. Came back from the steam room, he was still there on the phone. And it was, like, right in front of my lock or whatever. And I, like, had to go past, and I said something, like, mild. I go, hey, maybe, like, you could not be on the phone in here. And it was. The guy came at me in a way that was scary.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, he just was like, you want to do this? Like, he. He charged me.

[Julio Torres]

Oh, no.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I, like, jogged out of the steam room. And then I explained it to the front desk. I was like, hey, this thing happened just so you know. Like, I didn't want to get the guy in trouble, but I was like, just so you know, the guy's worrisome. There's a worrisome man in the long run. And. And then they called me and they said, we did an internal investigation and we've decided that your story is not true. What? And that. And that he said that you were on the phone. That's what that guy had said. He said you were on the phone. So again, I don't have a joke for this. It was just a shocking turn of events.

[Julio Torres]

It's like, hello, do you remember this thing you already forgot about also, internal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Investigation of the gym is like, we.

[Julio Torres]

Did an internal investigation. There are no records.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's no records of this man being on the phone and then charging at you aggressively.

[Julio Torres]

You are a liar.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In fact, you did it.

[Julio Torres]

In fact, you did it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You did it well.

[Julio Torres]

Keep paying us 250amonth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know it was a rough one, I have to say. Like, this is where it's sad and not funny. The guy charged me, and then I left. And I was walking to my show. I was doing a show at the time, and I was shaking.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you have anything you're working on that you want to throw out? Anything from the notebook? Anything sort of half. Half thought through?

[Julio Torres]

There is. There is one. Okay. Your locker room moment made me think about one locker room moment I had in my gym, where it's not a fancy gym and no one uses locks on their locker. The collective. We just opens the lockers and throws stuff in them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And.

[Julio Torres]

This guy walks in and keeps opening the lockers and seeing that they're being used, so. And then he just keeps slamming them and goes, fucking freaks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. Fucking freaks.

[Julio Torres]

Fucking freaks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Jesus.

[Julio Torres]

Gym full of fucking freaks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Julio Torres]

Fucking. Fucking freaks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, God.

[Julio Torres]

And yeah, it's just one of those things that, like, I also don't know how to, like, make funny other than relaying the anecdote. But it was just because that, to him, was symptomatic of a bigger problem in life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, Right.

[Julio Torres]

Which is like, a lack of order.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Julio Torres]

Right. He's probably like, okay, he's an executive, but he's going to this gym that's not fancy. So it's like, okay, so you're an executive who can't afford the Equinox.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mm.

[Julio Torres]

So then you're like, here with us, but you don't, like. It's like, you wanna have your cake and eat it too or something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Julio Torres]

It's like, fucking freaks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fucking freaks. Yeah, I think that's the challenge of.

[Julio Torres]

Being no one is stealing anything, by the way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Interesting.

[Julio Torres]

So are we freaks or are we free?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's funny. Like, that is. Therein lies the path to madness.

[Julio Torres]

I is like, imagine going to someone's house and being like, you don't have a security system. Fuck it. You fucking freak. You fucking freak.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's like, right, the doors unlocked, your car. Freak.

[Julio Torres]

Freak.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then I wrote this down. And maybe this is something, maybe it's not. Again, I haven't shared this with anyone. They say that. They say, if you want a better future, you should never give up hope. But I've given up hope. And I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say it, like, because I don't want to slow down the hope train.

[Julio Torres]

I don't know why my mind went to election night. I walked into the office of people that were like, people that work in signing people up to vote or something. And then I see a poster, like a. Oh, no, I know what it is. It's a banner that says Madame Precedent in Barbie font.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Julio Torres]

And I'm thinking, oh, okay. No, it's no, it's no. It's. It's no. This is going to be bad. This is going to. Oh, this is what we've been doing. Madam President and Barbie font. Like, okay, we're. We're so fried.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The last thing we do.

[Julio Torres]

Yeah, let's go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it up for a cause. If there's a non profit that you like to give to, we will contribute to them and link to them in the show notes.

[Julio Torres]

Wow. Glitz is one of them. They're a trans organization. My friend Fran is very involved with them. They seem to be doing Good work.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Glitz is a black trans le advocacy and direct services organization that's dedicated to fighting systemic discrimination against marginalized communities in New York City and beyond.

[Julio Torres]

There you go. And Fantastic and beyond.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Glitz Inc.org will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show Notes Julio, thank you for coming to the show. It's such an honor.

[Julio Torres]

Thank you for having me Working it Out cuz it's not done working it out because there's no one that's gonna do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Julio Torres on Instagram. Wait for it. Space Prince Julio. Somehow that makes sense now, right? I don't know why, but it does. Check out his show Color Theories at Performance Space New York until October 5th. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel, Ike Birbiglia. Subscribe we're going to be posting more and more videos soon. Check out birdbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list. To be the first to know about my upcoming shows, our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mix by Shub Sarong. Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks as always to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks of course to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. And of course we thank you most the listeners. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. You know what helps? I always say this. Now I'm going to say this as though I've never said it before. You know, it helps. You know, actually just occurred to me, I just realized it helps if you write a little review. You write a little stars next to it, a little five stars, and then you go, you know, My favorite episode is Julio Torres. My favorite episode is Hasan Minhaj. My favorite favorite episode is Bob Odenkirk. And then people go, oh, okay, then we know a good one to start because we don't know. There's billions of. I believe that's right. That's the correct number. Billions of podcasts. So we're trying to stick out because we're proud of what we're doing. Thanks. Most of all, you who are listening, Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell that couple who's breaking up on the street. Don't be shy, just jump right in. Hey folks, I saw you're having a little relationship trouble. Maybe before you do anything rash. Like, break up, take a breath, share a pair of earbuds, and listen to this podcast called Working it out, where Mike Birbigli works out jokes and stories and discusses the creative process with other creatives. It will not fix your relationship, but it won't make it worse. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.