187. Jenny Slate: Unafraid of Sadness

Summary

Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out

Episode 187: Jenny Slate – Unafraid of Sadness

Date: October 13, 2025
Guests: Mike Birbiglia (host, A), Jenny Slate (guest, B)

Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on vulnerability, creativity, and the intersection of comedy and sorrow. Comedian and actor Jenny Slate joins Mike Birbiglia to “work out” material but also reflects deeply on sadness, self-acceptance, failures, career navigation, improvisational artistry, and honest living. They explore how their personal histories and struggles manifest in their comedy, with a focus on Slate’s career, including Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, her experience at SNL, the challenges and rewards of live performance, and the ongoing process of finding meaning and connection through art.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embracing Sadness in Comedy

• Jenny’s Approach: Jenny discusses how Marcel the Shell balances humor and sadness without shying away from sorrow ([00:08]).

  "I don't want to do that kind of like grad school short story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good... but there is something about being sad... baseline sorrow."
  — Jenny Slate [00:08]

• Loneliness & Acceptance: She reflects on feeling “lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included” ([00:53]), highlighting the catharsis and creative necessity of acknowledging all emotional states.

• Comedy as Inclusion: Both agree their favorite comedy “acknowledges in the silliness that also there’s sadness” ([32:31]).

2. Early Days & ‘Big Terrific’

• Comedy Roots: Jenny, Gabe Liedman, and Max Silvestri formed a supportive, improvisational group environment, illustrated by the humility of performing to tiny crowds and valuing those formative experiences ([05:47]).

  "Like, whoa, this is... I must really want to do this because I'm performing for 11 people. Thing is, that's like in my—in me now."
  — Jenny Slate [05:47]

• Artistic Support: Mike recalls these shows as uniquely joyous, emphasizing the importance of community to creative resilience ([05:25]).

3. Improv, Process & Writing Styles

• Jenny on Process: She describes her unstructured, bullet-point style for standup ([08:47]).

  "Everything just has a title, like Dad’s Nightgown... I’ve never once written anything out."
  — Jenny Slate [10:31]

• Improvisation & Authenticity: They agree on the need to “just tell the story” rather than force scripting, equating performance to sharing memories authentically ([14:16], [13:51]).

4. Navigating Failure & SNL

• SNL Firing: Jenny recounts her stage fright post-SNL and the lingering insecurity and self-doubt it sparked ([14:32]).

  "I used to have stage, like, kind of, like, fun, uncomfortable excitement... and then I just got stage fright when I got fired from SNL, like straight up. No way. It, like, fucked me up a little bit."
  — Jenny Slate [14:32]

• Career Detours: She acknowledges her ensuing successes (e.g., Obvious Child, Marcel) as paths she might not have taken had she remained at SNL, embracing the idea that setbacks opened her truest creative pathways ([17:17]).

  "The end result is better. The life that I've had is really good for me... It’s weird to fail at something that you get."
  — Jenny Slate [17:19]

5. The Individual Path: Fame, Opportunity, and Social Media

• Perceptions vs. Reality: Jenny resists notions of having “ascended,” disclosing her continued need to audition and prove herself ([24:05]), and underlining that external markers of career “success” are not the whole story.

• Resisting Social Media: She speaks to her deliberate exit from social platforms to preserve her wellbeing and creative focus ([22:19], [63:26]).

  "I was like, oh, this is drugs. It makes me feel bad. I'm out."
  — Jenny Slate [22:28]

6. Marcel the Shell: Artistry and Personal Resonance

• Art Reflecting Life: They discuss how Marcel the Shell, created in collaboration with Dean Fleischer-Camp, is a deeply personal, improvisational achievement that blurs the lines between indie charm and mainstream relevance ([26:39]-[36:45]).

• Emotional Authenticity: They recount recording Marcel during Jenny and Dean’s divorce, infusing the film with real emotional undertones ([37:36]-[39:51]).

  "And we were recording in the house that we used to live in... it's just—I don't know. It was a really weird thing that we did to do that. But it, I think, allowed us to be the people who... Like, yesterday I was like, hey, do you want to have lunch?"
  — Jenny Slate [38:43]

• Central Marcel Themes: Jenny connects personally with Marcel’s monologue about connection, space, survival, and the pursuit of small beauties ([35:54]).

  "I seem to have, in spite of all the things that can get me down, an inexhaustible appetite for life's small beauties and for creating little playful games..."
  — Jenny Slate [35:54]

7. Sensitivity, Wonder, and Depression

• Being Open: Both discuss their capacities (and failures) to experience wonder, their fluctuating “receptors” for joy, and how depression can disrupt this openness ([48:13]).

• Overheard Moments: Jenny’s love for eavesdropping is recounted in a hilarious senior-center romance story, relishing the beauty in “overheard” snippets of life ([50:16]-[51:54]).

8. Boundaries in Comedy & Family

• Parenting & Privacy: Jenny and Mike talk about the ethics of including their children in standup as they age, advocating for sensitivity and consent ([29:08]-[30:11]).

9. Working Out Material (‘Scraps & Fragments’)

• Abandoned & Half-Formed Jokes: Jenny shares a social media observational bit—comparing the absurdity of “liking” strangers’ swimsuit photos online to keeping a shoebox of physical bathing suit photos at home—and why she struggles to make the bit work for her style ([59:38]-[62:10]).

• Mike’s Material: The two riff on age as an abstraction for children and discuss the “list” of life experiences they’re now writing off due to age—skiing, skydiving, certain countries. Jenny highlights how some ages are vivid and others impossible to picture ([66:00]-[70:00]).

10. Advice & Notable Wisdom

• Graduation Speech for One: Jenny tells the story of giving a graduation speech to a single student on a small island, reflecting on tailored advice and embracing receptivity to life ([43:00]-[45:15]).

  “Find out what your receptors are for like feeling and feeling what you like about life. Once I did, my life got a lot easier.”
  — Jenny Slate [45:15]

• Knowing Yourself: Jenny encourages embracing and expressing what one genuinely likes, rather than aspiring to norms or roles that don’t fit ([46:48]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Feeling Sadness:

  "Why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun and likes romance and chilling out, why am I so sad?"
  — Jenny Slate [00:31]

• On SNL:

  "...the second I walked in there, I was like, this isn't what I thought."
  — Jenny Slate [18:21]

• On Social Media:

  “I was like, oh, this is drugs. It makes me feel bad. I'm out.”
  — Jenny Slate [22:28]

• On Artistic Mission:

  "Once I figured that out, I was like, oh, I don’t have to try to be on, like, Three and a Half Men... I don’t have to have that goal."
  — Jenny Slate [47:44]

• On Joyful Living:

  “I seem to have... an inexhaustible appetite for life's small beauties and for creating little playful games...”
  — Jenny Slate [35:54]

• On Self-Acceptance:

  "I’m not sassy, I’m not sarcastic, and I’m not dry. …I’m supposed to be finding that in my daily life, in my comedy. ...It’s totally consistent in my private life, my private moments and in my larger work."
  — Jenny Slate [46:55]

• On Ageing and Giving Up Things:

  "I'm hitting that age where I'm like, I guess I'm never gonna... For sure. You know what I mean? Like, I think I'm not gonna hit North Korea."
  — Mike Birbiglia [68:09]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:08 – Embracing sorrow in Marcel the Shell; “baseline sorrow”
• 05:47 – Early days performing for tiny audiences; humility in comedy
• 10:08 – Jenny’s writing process: “scraps” and improvisational spirit
• 14:32 – Working through stage fright after SNL; Nick Kroll’s support
• 17:19 – How “failure” at SNL led to major creative breakthroughs
• 22:19 – Slate’s exit from social media for mental health
• 26:39 – Obvious Child and Marcel: taking indie art mainstream
• 35:54 – Jenny’s appetite for small beauties and playful life
• 38:43 – Recording Marcel the Shell amid a divorce
• 43:00 – The one-person graduation speech and tailored advice
• 45:15 – “Figure out what your receptors are for feeling...”
• 50:16 – Overheard octogenarian romance at the diner
• 59:38 – Standup “scraps” and “fragments”: social media, voyeurism
• 66:00 – Mike’s “living list” of things never to do again
• 71:01 – Working It Out for a Cause: Jenny chooses NPR

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Tone & Style Notes

• The conversation is candid, intimate, and peppered with self-effacing humor and vulnerability.
• Both Mike and Jenny are generous in sharing creative defeats and doubts, encouraging openness about creative processes.
• The dialogue is affectionate, filled with mutual admiration, and notably shy of harshness or cynicism.

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Nonprofit Highlight:

Jenny’s Pick: National Public Radio (NPR), for its importance in public discourse and journalism ([71:01]).

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic Summary | Notable Quote/Speaker | |-----------|--------------|-----------------------| | 00:08–01:11 | Embracing sadness creatively | Jenny: “baseline sorrow” | | 05:11–07:58 | Early standup, humility, ‘Big Terrific’ | Jenny: “in me now” | | 10:01–10:31 | Unscripted, improvisational writing | Jenny: “never once written anything out” | | 14:32–17:19 | Post-SNL firing, resilience | Jenny: "fucked me up a little bit" | | 22:19–22:28 | Leaving social media | Jenny: “this is drugs” | | 26:37–27:59 | Indie to mainstream transition | Mike/Jenny | | 35:54 | Life’s appetites & beauties | Jenny: “inexhaustible appetite...” | | 38:43 | Recording Marcel during divorce | Jenny | | 43:00–45:26 | Graduation speech for one | Jenny: “figure out what your receptors are...” | | 50:16 | Overheard diner conversation | Jenny | | 59:38–62:10 | Working out standup bits | Jenny/Mike | | 66:00–70:01 | The “living list” of aging | Mike/Jenny | | 71:01 | Nonprofit: NPR | Jenny |

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Conclusion

This episode is a moving, laughter-drenched meditation on showing up for all parts of yourself—funny, sad, or in between. It celebrates the value of creative humility, improvisational artistry, and the vital human project of finding resonance even in life’s smallest or most challenging moments. Slate’s personal stories, her work on Marcel the Shell, and her refusal to conform to either industry or social media pressures offer guidance and companionship to fellow artists and listeners alike.

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Listen if you:

• Love comedy that goes deeper than punchlines
• Want insight into creative process and vulnerability
• Appreciate conversations that bridge humor, sadness, and self-acceptance

Memorable Moment:
Jenny’s story of overhearing senior citizen gossip about romance in a diner—a sweet, comic microcosm of the episode’s thesis: connection and wonder can be found anywhere if we stay open ([50:16]).

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For more from Jenny Slate:

• IG: @JennySlate
• Podcast: I Need You Guys (SiriusXM, Thursdays)
• Latest special: Seasoned Professional
• Book: Lifeform (“Graduation Speech” essay referenced)

Cause to Support: NPR and local public media stations ([71:01])

Transcript

[A]

With Marcella's Shell. I was rewatching it this morning and what stuck out to me is like, it's so funny. And then it's like unafraid of being sad.

[B]

I'm glad you think that. Cause I guess that's like I don't want to do that kind of like grad school short story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good. But like there is something about being sad essentially like not being acceptable, just like sort of baseline sorrow.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

That makes me feel scared. And I went through a lot of years of like, why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun and like likes romance and chilling out, why am I so sad? Yeah, like so sad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just felt like if I couldn't try to talk about that or get into it a bit, it really was as if I was like lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included.

[A]

That is the voice of the great Jenny Slate. Oh, do we have a great episode today. Jenny Slate is someone I've known forever. I've admired for years and years and years. She has great stand up specials. There's a recent one called Seasoned Professional on Prime. She's the co creator and voice of Marcel the Shell with Shoes on, which is a movie I love. We talk about a whole bunch today. As a matter of fact, if you haven't seen that movie, I would almost say before you listen to this episode, go and watch that movie. It is on hbo. It is fantastic. It's like very funny, stop motion animation and she's the star of it, co creator of it and it's very emotional. Really, really great film that started as this kind of like it was like a viral Internet sensation that became a movie and what they did with it is I think really deep and really profound. We even work out jokes today we have a great Working it Out section for those of you who don't know. We have launched Working It Out Premium and we have a bonus episode on there where we tag jokes that you sent in. It's called Mike Punches up youp Jokes. And if you sign up for premium on Apple podcasts, which is 4.99amonth, you get an ad free version of the podcast. No ads ever. You help support the show, which we appreciate here on the staff and you get bonus content that Mike Punches up your jokes you get right now. And it's super, super fun. We didn't know how it was going to go and it went great. There will be more and More bonus content like that coming soon. Check it out on the premium feed on Apple Podcasts. I love this conversation with Jenny Slate. She has a new podcast that she hosts with very funny comedians Max Silvestri and Gabe Leadman. It's called I need you guys. You can listen to it every Thursday on the Sirius XM app or wherever you get your podcasts. The three of them used to do a live show called Big Terrific, which I've performed on. We talk about it today. We talk about Marcel the Shell. We talk about snl. We talk about the time she gave a graduation speech to one single student graduating in a schoolhouse on a small island, which is very Jenny Slate thing to do. We work out jokes. We do it all. Enjoy my conversation with the great Jenny Slate. It's funny. You have this great moment in your special where you go. And this is the part of the. The special where my mom turns it off. Yeah, yeah, I feel like that about my entire. Every special I have.

[B]

Do your parents watch your work?

[A]

Not really.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

Oh, same.

[B]

I mean, they'll watch it if I'm like, can you watch that? But like I'm. I don't do that. I don't really ask them to, but they have. I think they've watched at least my second special and probably my first. Cause they were in it. I would imagine they were curious.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting. Like it is an interesting thing. And also like, your dad is a poet, so it's like, you know, in some ways it's not that dissimilar from even what you do. Poetry.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder like, if that's why sometimes I'm like, is there something about what I do that's too close to. I mean, I wouldn't call my act poetry. No, I would though, in any way.

[A]

I know why you wouldn't. Because you don't want to.

[B]

That would be crazy.

[A]

Self serving and pretend.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be terrible.

[A]

But I think there's a lot of poetry to what you do.

[B]

That's nice of you to say. Yeah, I mean, I think first I was like.

[A]

And sounds.

[B]

And sounds. Lots of like. I think first I was just talking to Gabe Liedman and Max Silvestri about this yesterday because we were like, why did Gabe's parents, they like always drove from Philly to see us at Rafifi.

[A]

Oh, that's sweet. And that's when you and I met.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

A zillion years ago.

[B]

And you know what I mean, what that was like was like, you might have 14 people in the audience. And that was fine. I performed on your show.

[A]

There was definitely nights where there was 14 people.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it fucking sucked. I mean, we didn't suck.

[A]

It didn't suck, though, because it was. You guys were always. And I'm sure the podcast will be like this. You guys were always so supportive and fun, and you made the show fun no matter what. Like, it was called Big Terrific, and it was like. It was just joyous.

[B]

It was. And it was always. But that deeply humbling. Like, whoa, this is. I really, must really want to do this because I'm performing for 11 people. Thing is, that's like in my. In me now.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like, it's. I'll just never forget what that feels like. And, like, performing for six people, but, like, on the nights where there would only be like, maybe three, and then you have to be like, you know what, guys? We're gonna call it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I would be flooded with relief that I didn't have to do the show, and then flooded with shame that it happened that way.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that.

[B]

That's a real one, two punch right in the nads.

[A]

There's nothing worse than calling off a show that you convinced those people to.

[B]

Show up, those three.

[A]

You're like, no, no, it's gonna be good. We have a great lineup. They believed Eugene Mirman's popping in. This is happening. This is happening. And then you go, actually, we're not having the show.

[B]

And then you have to say that to Eugene, by the way.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's not even. It's like. And actually, I am gonna have to tell, you know, John Glaser Benjamin, who I am so obsessed with that I can't even talk to them or look at their faces, that we actually didn't get enough people to come here to watch them.

[A]

It's so pride swallowing.

[B]

Do a favor for me. Yeah, it's like, you eat shit.

[A]

I think it's.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

It's good, right?

[B]

Yeah. No, it's some pride swallowing or whatever is actually just bad for a person's self esteem.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, like, I fucking hate tough love. But. But some things, honestly, I mean, not to sound like a hybrid between, like, the greatest generation.

[A]

That's how you always. That's how you read, for sure.

[B]

Geriatric, Millennial. But it's like some challenges, some humblings that are not, you know, oppressive humblings, but, like, it's just, hey, man, you're actually. You're just like a tiny speck, and that's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Our very Character building and passion building and appetite building.

[A]

You did improv with Gabe in college, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Max or no?

[B]

No, Max didn't go to college with us. We met him when we were 22.

[A]

So you did it with Gabe, did you? You started the group?

[B]

Yeah. Well, it was like. It was like something else had a different name. There were two groups. One was called Six Milks.

[A]

Six Milks?

[B]

I don't know. Six. Yeah, Six Milks. And then the other one that Gabe and I were in was called Two Left Feet.

[A]

Two Left Feet, Sure.

[B]

I was like, okay, got it. You guys are joking around. But anyway, we combined the two groups, created a new group, which was called Fruit Ponch. Again, why do college students name their stuff?

[A]

So, yeah, I can see it in your work. Like, I can see the improv. I can see the improv.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like you have an improvisational spirit to your standup. Your stand up, for sure, is unpredictable.

[B]

Yeah. Or unplanned.

[A]

Is unplanned unpredictable?

[B]

It is. I mean, I follow a. Like a bullet point system.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what you have here behind you, that's what it looks like on a page before I go up. And then I, like, shuffle things around as I'm going. And nothing is ever, like, written because I find that to be very boring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't. I can't do it. I have some stuff I say, you know, like, too, like a turn of phrase.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But everything else, it's like, who does she want to be tonight?

[A]

I love your standup, though, because it's. It does feel. It feels unrehearsed, and it feels like. It doesn't feel like anyone else.

[B]

That's a nice thing to say. I feel the same way about you. Geez, thanks. How much writing do you do?

[A]

I write a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So much of it's just junk.

[B]

Well, for all of us.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, of course.

[B]

You know, I mean, you gotta. You have to, like. I just feel like you kind of gotta, like, blow out the pipes.

[A]

Blow out the pipes and get all.

[B]

The gunk out of the pipes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, write all the bad stuff and the good stuff. Just, like, keep writing it down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is my deal. But I have a folder called Scraps. Scraps, like, on my computer.

[A]

I respect that so much. Scraps.

[B]

There's also one called. I think it's called Fragments and Problems.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Yeah. And even in my first special, which was with Netflix, they were like, can you write out what you'll do? And I was like, no, I can't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it'll ruin it. It'll make me feel like I hate it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just have never once written anything out. Everything just has a title, like Dad's Nightgown.

[A]

I have a similar thing, which is I'll write out the bit and then I will go up on stage and do my best version of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From memory.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it usually doesn't. It's not what I wrote verbatim.

[B]

But isn't that kind of like. I mean, not that I've ever been on a date that is like this, but it's how I imagine dating to be. Or just, like, dinner party. Let's say this is like, the metaphor that I've used is like, you know, your memories, like. And you probably know, not in a sociopathic way, but you probably know, like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, I can't. Oh, I can't wait to tell you the story.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, the other day I was telling Rachel Antonoff and Jack Antonoff, brother, sister, who I call my husband calls them the cousins.

[A]

The cousins.

[B]

My cousins. We're very Amish. I told them this story about when I was on a summer program and I had a crush on a boy. And I was, like, pretty sure that we were making eye contact across the cafeteria. And at the time, Romeo and Juliet had come out with Leonardo DiCaprio, and I was obsessed with him.

[A]

Fishbowl scene, etc.

[B]

Just fish tank scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big time. And I love that movie and whatever. And, like, he just. It was like a big point of my, like, raging horniness, you know? And I was like, this boy looks like him, and he is straight up looking at me. And I had like. Recently, I was 16. I'd gotten my braces off. I just gotten my period. I had a bra. It was like a big deal for me.

[A]

Big moment.

[B]

Yeah, huge. And I started hanging out with him and a bunch of people in a group. I had a nickname, which was Duty, which is not a good nickname, but I thought it was cool.

[A]

So you were ready to go.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Now I'm just telling the story. But I'm telling the story in surface of trying to say something else, unfortunately. But anyway, I was like, this guy likes me. I had never kissed a boy before. I heard him and another. A couple of boys in the room below. I was on the balcony above, and they were on the balcony below, and they didn't know I was up there. And someone was like, yeah, we're gonna go out and da, da, da, da and Doody's gonna Come with us. And I was like, oh, my God. And he goes, who's duty? And I was like, oh, man, he doesn't even know my nickname. And then they're like, you know Jenny? And he's like, who's Jenny? And I was like, what? This fucking guy? Like, he's definitely been staring at me like he doesn't even know my name.

[A]

Brutal.

[B]

And then one of the other boys goes, you know, she's that girl that looks like a chicken. And then he goes, oh, no, no, no, no. I know what you mean. She's that girl that looks like a lizard. And then they were like, no, she looks like a chicken. And it was like, chicken, lizard. Chicken, lizard. And it was like. Like, it just hurt. It hurt so badly. And it was like, oh. Like, huh? Like, I walk around being like, everyone thinks I'm ugly, but then there's, like, this other part of me that's like, you're not ugly. You just think that because people are mean to you at school.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then I heard them, like, say it.

[A]

Confirmation and another country.

[B]

Yeah. It was like, this is like, we're in England. And they also think it. So I might be. I need a little more time to cook this thing. But anyway, that story, for example, it's like, you know your stories, right. How'd you write them down?

[A]

Right. You can remember that.

[B]

Yeah. You just tell them to the person and try to feed their joy. That might be happening.

[A]

I always have to remind myself of that because I write out jokes, and then I have to remind myself, like, just do it in my own words.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's what the audience craves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just want to hear the story.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

My director always says that to me. Like, I'll get nervous before a show and I'll go, like, just tell the story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, right. All it is is just telling the story.

[B]

Yeah. But there's a lot to get past, to be the version of yourself that can do that.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You know you had it with. You went to a hypnotist.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Is that early? Like, was that, like, when I first met you kind of thing?

[B]

No, I had. No. I used to have stage, like, kind of like fun, uncomfortable excitement. Like, all through Rafifi, through being at Soundfix or Cameo, like, when we were in Williamsburg. And then I just got stage fright when I got fired from snl, like, straight up. No way. It, like, fucked me up a little bit. And I. Then I moved to LA and, like. And there were three years also where, like, I did this thing where every, you know, general meeting I would go on, I felt like I had to be like, I got fired. You know, like, say it. Even though nobody cared.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was like a weird, like, swollen but collapsed ego or something. You know, it just was like, the worst situation. Of course fucking sucked. And then. But Nick Kroll was like, I'm doing a show on Comedy Central, which became Kroll Show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he, like, gave me my first job after being fired, which meant so much to me because I really admired him so much, you know, continual admiration forever. But I still had the stage fright. And I believe Nick was going to the hypnotist for, like, something else. Maybe smoking. I can't speak for him.

[A]

And let's just say smoking.

[B]

Maybe smoking. I think Aziz went to the same person.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

There were all these people going there.

[A]

I gotta hit that hypnotist.

[B]

I'm not sure how come I don't think it worked. It sounds like it worked, like, maybe enough.

[A]

Nick doesn't smoke anymore, and you get on stage.

[B]

It did help to get me back on stage and to get rid of, like, a lot of the kind of, like, undead at the door.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, every time we watch the Last of Us and the, like. What are they called? The Clickers. The Clickers, yeah. Like, around. Like, that's what it feels like to have stage fright.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

They're like. Like, they're right there, and they're like, that's what it feels like to me. And I still have it really badly, to the point where, like, I haven't actually done Stand up in a really long time.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you still have it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, what's crazy is I just sang to my wife downstairs. I was like. I was like, jenny Slade's coming over, doing the podcast. And she goes, do you remember that Right after she got fired from snl, we ran into her at something, and she was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I fucked up so badly.

[B]

That sounds like something I'd say.

[A]

And we were both like, you're gonna be great. This is gonna be great. And then notably, notably, you went on to have, like, this unbelievable career that I would say, arguably, between Marcel the Shell and Obvious Child, like, arguably, you might not have had time for if you were in SNL for fucking nine years or whatever, for sure.

[B]

No, no, it's better. The end result is better. The life that I've had is really good for me. I don't think there's like, it's weird to fail at something that you get. You get there and you're like, I thought I was good at this, what this is, but I didn't even get what it was. I thought it would be, like, my college improv group.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then it's like, this whole system, and it's a TV show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there are.

[A]

There's cue cards.

[B]

There's cue cards, which obviously I wasn't good at. And there's, like, politics, but it's also social. And it was really confusing to me. Cause everyone was so nice, like, in my cast. But it was like, huh, this is a weird fit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, I'm going down. But it. It's different than, let's say, having a soulmate and it not working out, like, where you're like, I genuinely don't get that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We were meant to be. Like, the second I walked in there, I was like, this isn't what I thought.

[A]

Right. Because you have. I mean, I always have thought that about that show. I've always been a fan of the show, but I've thought, like, I would never have fit in in the cast or as a writer because there's so many moving parts, and you have to, like. Like, you're saying, like, it's regimented, and you have to hit your mark in, like, ten different metaphoric ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like, from my comedy, that would feel stifling. Like, I feel like it would take away from the spontaneity.

[B]

Yeah, precisely that.

[A]

Like, I need. And it sounds like you. That you need. I mean, even, like, you cursing is hilarious because, like, it's actually kind of a great actor's impulse.

[B]

Oh, my God. It is. In a way, it's like, it's so me. Yeah, totally. To make such an embarrassing mistake. And, like, I hate getting in trouble.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would never. I don't, like, make moves, you know, I'm not, like. I'm certainly not a believer in, like, all press is good press. Like, I'm not interested in infamy. Certainly not at that point. I like getting as. You know, like, I was really feeling good about getting on the show. There's no need to zhuzh it up with just eating shit right away. I don't know. But also. Yeah. It is such a weird, in a way, that it's very me that that happened. It's also so outrageous and so not me, because I like to try to get things right on a larger scale that I don't really remember it happening at all.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And it was so scary and embarrassing that the only thing I remember at the end is, like, Seth hugging me and that. I thought that was so nice. And Andy Samberg, like, being really nice to me, but then kind of being like, wait, is this, like, a big deal? Yeah, you know? Cause I had just. I literally had walked out of Williamsburg. I wasn't, like, a UCB person.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I had no. Like, I was obsessed with SNL in the way that probably, like, Adam Sandler was growing up or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I didn't do any of the stuff to get there that most people did.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I was, like, a major rando.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then I fucked up. So that's, like, crazy.

[A]

Yeah, that is crazy. But then it ended up being going so well for you.

[B]

Well, this is what my astrology says.

[A]

Do you go to an astrologer or you just read your astrology?

[B]

I read it. I listen to it every week. I have an app, the Chani app, which I very much love. I'm not a person that won't sign a contract when Mercury's in retrograde. I'm not super strict about it, but.

[A]

I do like that I even know people did that.

[B]

They definitely do. I mean, I'm not gonna be like, can we sign this contract when it's Mercury in retrograde? But if it is in retrograde and it's the only time to sign, it's.

[A]

Like, what are we gonna do?

[B]

I'm fucking do this right now. I'm not signing a lot of stuff DocuSign. But anyway, my astrology says, like, every great epiphany, great success, big love, something like that is sort of twinned with a door that closes or like, a darker doorway. Yeah. So maybe that's happening to me.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's true. Well, but I mean, like, you have one of those quintessential careers, though, where people go, like, I want to have a Jenny Slate career.

[B]

Like, they go, did you think that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can I ask you something? And you don't. I mean, it's your podcast. You can cut it out. Because I think of you as someone that's like, you're really successful. You have your, like. Your, like, Broadway success, too. And there are always, like, pictures of, like. I actually don't know if I've seen this, but I imagine it's like Tom Hanks with you backstage at your chat.

[A]

He came over.

[B]

Oh, wow. And also, I have not used social media in, like, over three years.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And my assistant will post for things I ask her to post for Me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I've made, like, a concerted effort to just. I don't even peek in, to not look. Oh, wow, you're done.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, oh, this is drugs. It makes me feel bad.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm out. But, like, do you. Do you ever feel like you're in the process of, you know, trying to, like, ascend or building or, you know, like, you're not fully in the final zone you wish you would be in? And again, that is a question that maybe is too embarrassing to answer.

[A]

No, no, I don't think it's embarrassing. I'm good with it. It's just so big of a question. I'm trying to break it apart. Like, I think. I don't. I don't think there's any more ascension.

[B]

What do you mean? Like, you're calling it?

[A]

I think I'm calling it.

[B]

You don't have to tell Eugene Mirman that we're not doing this.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Exactly. Only three people came to your career.

[A]

Exactly. Three people showed up to my career. We're going home. No, no, it's. You know what it is, is, like, I feel like what happened was I started out and I was like, I want to be up there and ascend to whatever that is. And then I feel like I was high enough to see what that looks like for the people living it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And then I was, like, doing my own stuff artistically at the same time and going, oh, I like this.

[B]

So you're kind of talking about fame.

[A]

Yeah, I guess so.

[B]

Oh. And I was like, you're talking about life.

[A]

Life ascendancy.

[B]

I think what I was talking about was opportunity.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I don't feel like when you're like, oh, you had this career. People say they want a Jenny Slate career, and I'm like, I audition, you know.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

Like, I would love to be, as.

[A]

Opposed to being offered, like, the leads in movies and stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And actually, I actually really like auditioning, and I sometimes, like, will be like, actually, can I. Let's just make sure you want this, you know? Cause it's. I don't like that feeling.

[A]

You just announced that you're in a movie yesterday.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did you audition for that?

[B]

No.

[A]

No. Okay.

[B]

But when I got there, I was.

[A]

Like, that's so fast.

[B]

Jenny Slayton, are you sure Chris Pine wants to be present? You know, like, I was like, oh, my God. You know, like. And then I had to, like, ask him.

[A]

What?

[B]

Well, I don't. Look, it's not the best Way to be. I'm not. I don't like how I am.

[A]

That's not funny.

[B]

But it's like, you're so. No, I didn't have to audition for that.

[A]

Did you call him?

[B]

Did what? Did you call him, like, today?

[A]

No. No. To ask him whether he wanted you to. That's so funny.

[B]

I mean. Yeah.

[A]

And so you were. Hey, are you good with this, me being in a romantic comedy with you kind of thing?

[B]

It is not a romantic comedy. And if that's what you think it is, you're gonna be a little bit sad when you see the changes. But, no, I think I more. It was part of a more unfolding conversation.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Where it was like, well, you know, I don't know. It's like, revealing your insecurities.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And kind of having to check. But it's not like a fishing. It's more like. I think for me, in terms of the ascent or whatever, it's like, I would just. I feel like I still have to, like, prove myself.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that maybe is a good thing and might be only in my head, but, like, I think in a time when I mostly function as an actor, I guess, and it doesn't feel like it's the easiest time in the industry. It's like, I think my goal is to be at a place where it just doesn't seem, like, so hard.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But maybe I'm making it hard on myself. But also. I don't think so.

[A]

But I think the thing that I'm speaking to is, like, well, obviously, first of all, you and Obvious Child is a great example of you playing a character, but it's in some ways a variation on the type of comedy you do. And you really, like, owned it in this way that it's kind of an iconic film. Like, people are like, that's, you know, one of the. One of those great, great indie films. And then the other one is Marcel the Shell with Shoes on, like, is a great example of, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so personal.

[B]

It's so personal. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you and Dean created a thing that is, like, really, like, alt comedy. And then it became like, a mainstream movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in some ways, like, that's what I'm speaking to is like. Yeah. That you did these things where people go, you can do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's crazy. I think a lot of. A lot of people, especially a lot of artists, even a lot of fields go, like, how come I can't take my indie art thing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love. In this small group of People, like, love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, that's my thing. And then how come I can't take that and make that the thing that I go out with?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, you did that.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Moment of silence for that.

[B]

Room tone or room tone? I just. Yes. And I think that's. And it's not that I'm not. I love that movie and Dean and our work that we did together, but I think also it's like, I really am job to job in a good way. Like, I don't take much from the stuff that happens after the job is over. I like a photo shoot, you know? Like, I think that's, like, fun to get dressed up in, like, a big weird dress or something.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But once the job is over, I just get hungry again to perform.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That said, I'm, like, not a workaholic, and I'm very fine making, like, one movie a year. Or like the year that I made Dying for Sex, which I think is the last time I saw you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I made two things that year and I was like, you. Like, I can't work any more than this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, like, I'm not a workaholic, but I. I do want to. After you're done performing and you're a performer and you love it. You're like, when do I go again?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's like just being on a water slide. It's like, can I. Can I go again? Can I just go again?

[A]

Now that you're in New York, I'm going to just try to convince you to stand up all the time.

[B]

I think I want to do it again.

[A]

Do you feel like you could do Big Terrific again, or are you done with it?

[B]

Oh, no, I feel like we could do it again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like now that we have our podcast that, you know, like, my dream is, like, we tour around with that and it kind of is like a new version of it.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, people would love that.

[B]

God, it would be people. Meaning definitely me. At least one person.

[A]

Yeah. You'd love it.

[B]

I would love it.

[A]

I think everyone would love it.

[B]

Yeah. And I miss Max and Gabe. They don't live here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think, Yeah. I mean. And, you know, my daughter's almost five. Like, there is a feeling in me now that what I talk about on stage needs to be thoughtfully sorted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not like I'm not gonna see slit or whatever, but it's like, I don't wanna talk about her. I don't wanna. I don't she genuinely can't say yes or no about it. And I don't think that's fair. But there's still, it turns out, a lot to talk about. There's a lot to talk about outside of her.

[A]

Yeah. I had that recently where when Una turned. My daughter turned 10. I'm not going to talk about her anymore because I think at a certain point when they get to a certain age, it stops becoming general what any kid would say. It starts to become very specifically what that person's saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then like, you're saying like, as opposed to like when I was doing like the new one, for example, like. Well, yeah, that could be any baby, right? Literally, any. Any baby could say that or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do. Do you think you'll show her Marcel the Shell?

[B]

Yeah, I. I have showed her a little bit of it. She's kind of young, though.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, she's like, well, what are they doing?

[A]

Right. It's an interesting mashup of like, it is for grownups, it's for grown ups and it's for kids. Like, it's a little bit in that kind of Pixar space of like, it's very sophisticated.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, it depends on the kid, too. Like, when she was 2, we tried to like, she hadn't watched anything yet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we like, all got Covid and I was like, maybe I should show her Marcel the Shell. But I just felt too weird about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I showed her the Winnie the pooh from the 70s, you know.

[A]

That's cute.

[B]

Yeah. But I think eventually she'll like it.

[A]

With Marcel the Shell. I was rewatching it this morning and what stuck out to me is like, it's so funny. And then it's like, unafraid of being sad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's like, I think my favorite thing about it.

[B]

I'm glad you think that. Cause I guess that's like, I don't want to be sad. I don't want to do anything to make myself sad. And I certainly don't want to do that kind of like grad school short story. Like, I wrote a story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good. Like just kind of not that. That thing, darkness to seem legit. But like, there is something about being sad, essentially, like not being acceptable, just like sort of baseline sorrow.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

That makes me feel scared. And I mean, I also now, like, take an antidepressant, which has really changed my world, but, like, went through a lot of Years of, like, why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And, like, likes romance and chilling out. Why am I so sad?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, so sad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just felt like if I couldn't try to talk about that or get into it a bit, it. It really was as if I was, like, lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included, which made it worse.

[A]

Yeah. That's a lot of times that's my favorite kind of comedy because it acknowledges in the silliness that also there's sadness.

[B]

Oh, my God. Like, my favorite things to watch when I was little. Now I realize how. How much, like, kinship or support I felt from, like. I mean, even Pee Wee weirdly feels sad to me. Like, when Pee Wee loses his bike, it actually has really fucking sad.

[A]

I love Pee Wee.

[B]

Pee Wee is the best. Or, like, you know, Peter Sellers to me is like, there's so much sorrow in there. There's so much sorrow.

[A]

And of course, Chaplin.

[B]

Chaplin so much in, like, Harpo Marx. There's so much just delicate, weird, twinkly sorrow. And, like, Mr. Hulo's holiday, like, the Jacques Tati movie. My dad showed it to me as a little girl, and I remember making fun of him so much and being like, this is so boring. And then watching it as an adult with Dean and watching all the other Tati movies and being like, this means so much to me. It's the most important thing. And Gilda Radner was, like, a little bit sad.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

In her happiness and her jumping around, there was, like, something about. And a lot of it, I guess you could just see in her body.

[A]

Yeah. I think, like, the best performers are, like, letting you in.

[B]

Yeah. Don't have to be sad, but.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's just, like, there's, like, an openness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where there it was like Jodie Foster once said, they said, why are you private about your personal life? Or whatever? And she was like, it's all in the roles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it's true. She's like, it's all in these roles. Yeah, it's all out there.

[B]

Totally. It's just, like, represented differently.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's costumed or whatever. Performed.

[A]

Yeah. So when you in Marcel, what part of you in real life has Marcel elements and what part doesn't?

[B]

I think Marcel is, like, way more succinct than I am. I think I'm, like, painfully long winded, no matter what. I was just recording a new cartoon, and they're like, okay, will you do the line and just say a little bit more. And the riff was five minutes. It's like, they can't use this. It's just too long. It just unwound too much. But I think at the end of the Marcel movie, the last monologue, where he's talking about needing space but not wanting to be totally far away from other people and liking the sound of himself connected to everything, that is like an improvised bit that I had said at another time that eventually went there, I believe. And that, to me, feels like my kind of central state and ethos. And also why I love living in Brooklyn again, is like, you can be with other people. You can be a true introvert, extrovert combo and get it all. And, you know, there's that. And then also, like, Marcel is really. When he says, like, I don't want to just survive. Like, I want to have a good life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I am really. That I seem to have, in spite of all of the things that can get me down, an inexhaustible appetite for life's small beauties and for creating little playful games to make things that would be boring just out of, like, autopilot. Like, this is boring. Like the. The last piece, actually, in my book that I. That came out last year, Lifeform is called the Graduation Speech. And it's about why it's so important to, like, play games in your daily life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And a lot of the way that Marcel gets through his state of being left abandonment is by making a game out of things that would be tasks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like that.

[A]

Aw, there's a Marcel line. He goes, guess why I smile a lot. Cause it's worth it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

Yeah. It's a big deal. It's true.

[A]

Did you play on the set of that? Like, was it just like, what about this? What about this? What about this?

[B]

On the movie?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, we had, like, a very heavy treatment, and then some scenes would be, like, written out. It was just so much improv.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then Dean and our co writer, Nick Paley, would listen to the audio. Sometimes they would be able to put a scene together with audio that was there. And then they would be like, well, we were really getting to something. Or like, the plot of the movie actually needs to change now that we see this. And then they would write a scene, then we would record and improvise again. So it was like a really big.

[A]

Like, a work in progress, like always.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But also, it was like, you know, during that, like, Dean And I were getting divorced, and we were recording in.

[A]

The middle of that.

[B]

At the start, we. We told our, like, Sinereach. The people who gave us the. Who funded the film. I think we told them that we were getting separated, like, right after we signed the deal to do the movie with them. So we hadn't even started recording it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then. And we were recording in the house that we used to live in. And there are parts of the movie where, like, Michelle. Michelle. Where. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. Which is. You know, what the movie's called. Where Marcel. Even I. There's also a joke about Marcel being like, oh, like, I mess it up, too. Like, I mess up my. He's like, I can't believe I just did that. Yeah, I do that. Yeah. But where. He's, like, talking about, I think, like, what happened when his family got moved in the suitcase, and he's, like, crying, and you hear Dean say, like, this is the last thing we'll do today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just. And I wouldn't break character anyway, like, unless we were, like, eating lunch. I would just be, like. Not, like, in a method way, but, like, we were just always recording, and we had the microphones taped to our heads literally on, like, a little sweatband. And, like, I would just, like, be like this. It was just, like, talking, like, hanging out. Just like, ask me whatever you want. And I would just, like, kind of stay in this state of mind and just, like, hang out and just whatever might come up. It was like that. And then. But you can hear him be like, this is the last thing we'll do today. And you can hear me as me as Marcel. Be like. You know, like, it just. I don't know. It was a really weird thing that we did to do that. But it, I think, allowed us to be the people who. Like, yesterday I was like, hey, do you want to have lunch?

[A]

You know, that's what. Someone wiser than me once said that. But that's the difference between film and television is that television is serialized, so it's like a chemistry experiment. And film is like a biology experiment because it only happens once.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like. That's an example of, like, that's in there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, your personal relationship and your collaboration. It's all in there.

[B]

And the movie is like. I mean, not to be, like, such a douche, but, like, it is an organic form that happened in those conditions. And I think we were even planning on kind of a slightly different movie. And, Yeah. I mean, it all fed into that and it didn't. Even the parts that hurt or were painful were not. They were not dead weight. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's awesome. It's cool, emotional stuff. Working it out is brought to you by Helix. Gotta love Helix, one of our original sponsors. I've had my Helix mattress for five years and counting. Still as comfortable as the very first time I slept on it. As you know, I obsess about sleep. I think about a lot. I've got a sleepwalking disorder, although in pretty good shape these days, and I get a great night's sleep on the Helix mattress. Here's a few things I love about my Helix mattress. It shows up in a box. I've talked about this before. Getting a mattress into your house or your apartment is a huge pain. It is a very heavy item. In this case, it shows up in a box. You open the box, boom, you got a mattress. Let's talk about pillows. Helix makes eight different types of pillows. There's a classic dream pillow. They have cooling pillows, latex, a side sleeper knee pillow. Come on. Their pillow game is so strong. Go to helixsleep.com burbigs for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com burbigS for 20% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name Working it out after checkout so they know that we sent you helixsleep.com burbigs support for working it out comes from Quince. As the weather cools, it's time to put away all the warm weather clothes I got from Quints and start layering up. Quince has a fantastic fall collection. I love the Mongolian cashmere sweater. It's just a personal favorite. It's a perfect fall clothing item. The right feel, the right temperature for crisp fall days. That runs about 60 bucks. I'm happy knowing it's money well spent because the clothes last. I know I'll be rocking this cashmere sweater next fall and the fall after that and for years to come. Their fall collection also includes a suede tracker jacket, wool blazers and more. Really love this site. It's great. Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to quint.com BS for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available also in Canada for our Canadian listeners. That's Q I N C.com B I free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.comigs you did a graduation speech. Is this true for one person?

[B]

I did.

[A]

How did that even happen?

[B]

They asked Me. And I said yes.

[A]

They say it was one person.

[B]

Yeah. Because it was so Cuttyhunk island is like the smallest, I believe, of the Elizabeth Islands. Like the islands that are, you know, the famous ones, like Martha's Vineyard where my parents live, Nantucket. And then there's all these like other little ones and Cuddy Hunk is one of them. Maybe not the smallest, but either way. And they had a one room schoolhouse and their very last student was graduating from it. And there weren't any more kids on the island. And yeah, her name was Gwen. And I spent like an afternoon walking around with her, getting to know her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I gave a graduation speech just to her. I mean her family came and the islanders and my husband and I think my in laws came.

[A]

What did it feel like?

[B]

It felt exactly like giving a speech to a big class.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Except that like, because a lot of it is like, at least for me and I think for many people, if you've like given a graduation speech before and weirdly I've done it like a couple times now, you gotta get past the like, who the fuck am I to be telling these kids what they should do? Like, I am really not the one, you know, and like I kind of resent having to do it.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

But I didn't to her. But it's like, look, I don't. I'm not sure that I have this for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then the other side of it is like this exciting thing that I felt the first time that I gave a graduation speech. And I felt it again. Just like it's so beautiful out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And actually I am the one to tell you about it because I feel it in a really specific way. And my advice to you is like, find out what your receptors are for like feeling and feeling what you like about life. Like it's, you know, whatever. But I liked that I could tailor it to her and give her like specific compliments.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that I could give her like a big, big send off.

[A]

That's really great wisdom.

[B]

It was really fun.

[A]

Figure out what your receptors are. Yeah.

[B]

Because actually once I did, my life got a lot easier.

[A]

It's so crucial.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like once you got to figure out what you enjoy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Like, well, especially, you know that thing that you said before about like if you've seen, if you've seen anyone that is, let's say, like unfortunately, like really hampered, limited or maybe like sort of incarcerated by fame. Like they can't go to the grocery store and they you know, like, everyone has different experiences with it, but, like, if you see something that you're like, oh, I actually don't want that. You know, like, I. Or I don't want to play one role. I don't want to be Urkel or whatever. Like, I don't want to play one role forever, so I can't do anything else.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Those kinds of things. Like, you can start to know, like, oh, okay, I think I know what I want in terms of, like, that thing. But then there's another thing that happened, like, when we made Marcel the shell, which was like, I've been looking at something out of the side of my eye, sort of assuming that it couldn't ever be in the center. And I've never looked at it hard enough to understand what it is. But, like, I like helping people feel both. Like, as if I just threw open a window, but so, like, a dose of freshness, but that they're comfortable but without being, like, sappy about it. Like, I like nice, pretty stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not like, a GEICO commercial. I'm not, like, sassy. I'm not, like, sarcastic, and I'm not dry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, I like it in, like, remember, three, two, one, Contact on pbs. Like, when a flower blooms in fast motion and it looks a little shaky. Like, I like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I like that kind of stuff. And I'm supposed to be finding that, like, in my daily life, I'm supposed to be finding it. And in my comedy, I'm supposed to be finding it. It's not like a gross, like, mandate, you know, like, cult leader thing. It's more like, this is my appetite. It's totally consistent in my private life, my private moments and in my larger work. And once I figured that out, I was like, oh, I don't have to try to be on, like, Three and a Half Men.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't have to have that goal.

[A]

I believe that show's called Two and a Half Men.

[B]

Two and a Half Men. What's the other one with the three guys? They're dorks. What's it called? Bazinga. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Big Bang Theory Biz had that one.

[A]

Three and a half.

[B]

I mean, clearly.

[A]

Big Bang, Bang Theory.

[B]

What did I say? The Big Bang.

[A]

You're talking about all my favorite shows. You're trashing all my favorite shows.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'm not even trashing them. I just mean I was like. I never felt, like, normal enough to, like, be on those shows.

[A]

No. I get it, you know. No, I mean the thing that you're saying, I think is really.

[B]

I hope that didn't come off as like being shitty to that.

[A]

What are you talking about?

[B]

You know, they're off the air. They all did a great job.

[A]

Well, what you're saying though, it's really hitting me hard. That thing of like wanting to be. Have understand your receptors and then be open to, you know, new things and seeing and having the wonderment about all the things. For me, the worst is when I know that and I can't do it.

[B]

What is that like, like what's an example of that?

[A]

Like, literally feeling like walking around, oh.

[B]

My God, Dropping my daughter off at.

[A]

School or something like that. And then being like. I just don't feel like I can take in the wonder of the world. And I fucking know that I should. Well, I know that's the answer and I can't do it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, for me, that's when I think. When I can tell that like there is like depression happening in me. Cause it's not like I'm walking around being like, there's a bee, there's a zoo, you know, Like I'm not like an alien.

[A]

Yes, you are. I've seen you.

[B]

Like, I mean, I will say the couple days ago, I like caught myself like staring at like a. What are those things? You know, like it's like a machine and it.

[A]

Like a prize grabber machine at an arcade?

[B]

No, like a.

[A]

Rather.

[B]

Yeah, but it has the big scooper.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, but like at a construction excavator. Excavator, sure. Yeah.

[B]

And I just was like, fuck yeah, man. And it was like not on. Like it was.

[A]

Nobody was operating even just existing at all.

[B]

Yeah. And then I was like, oh, I've looked at it a bit too long, you know, like if anybody saw me doing this, they would be like, what the hell? You know, like, oh, what are you doing? Looking at that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, but then.

[A]

But then you're doing it right.

[B]

I was doing it right. And then I went to the Montague Diner and I broke my gluten free lifestyle. And I had a beer and a side of french fries by myself. And I listened to two old ladies behind me in the booth, the best. Talking about their sunglasses.

[A]

Oh, overheards are the best.

[B]

Oh my God. Can I just tell you one thing I heard?

[A]

Please.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's much better, by the way, than television or movies.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Overheards are as good as it gets.

[B]

They're so old. Okay. And they know they are. It's not me being like, they're old. It's like they were old. They were very elderly.

[A]

They're in their 80s, 100, 200 years old.

[B]

Right. They were, like, 300 years old. They come in, they're like, I'll have scrambled eggs. The other one's like, scrambled eggs as well, in an iced coffee. And they don't get anything else. I'm like, you guys are gonna blow out your stomach lining. Like, what the fuck? You're so old. You better have some bread, girls. But anyway, they didn't. Then. Then they're, like, talking. They were literally talking about the senior citizen center.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And they're like, you know what? I love the improv classes. And I'm like, the improv classes, I'm like, I am, like, tightening up. Like, I was like. Like the emotional version of, like, getting hard or something. Like, I was like, oh, Like, I love that they're doing this right now. I was, like, standing on end listening to them. This lady's like, oh, well, I know why you like the class. Cause you love. Cause Stanley's your guy. And then there's a weird silence, and the same lady goes, I know he's been to your apartment.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. That's good. That's good, too.

[B]

It was like, you know, have you seen the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry tells George, like, maybe what Elaine said during sex? And George squeezes the ketchup, and it, like, ejaculates. He's like. And it, like. And then he looks. It's like, the best acting in the world. That's. That's what. Like, when I heard, like, I know he's been to your apartment, I was like, I'm dead. I loved it. But anyway, I was like, oh, I guess I do do what maybe you might think I do.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You know, I'm like, I'm, like, doing my life, but when I am in a more kind of like, she's down, she's down, folks moment, which is not great. One thing I notice is that I understand what is so beautiful and what are normal beauties that are there, and I can see my separation from them. And that I have no receptor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it compounds the feeling of isolation. And I feel scared.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have a deep sense of, like, what's wrong? Something's wrong. Yeah.

[A]

It's like, the difference between, like, you know, being like, watermelon is so beautiful, and then being like, watermelon stupid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The same watermelon fruit.

[B]

Out of here. Man, how do you know why it's here?

[A]

It's a mess. This is a mess.

[B]

Why is everything a mess with seeds? Forget it.

[A]

The same thing. Went to apple orchard last weekend with my daughter. It's like, this is the most beautiful thing I could possibly behold. And then, like, later in the day, I'm like, I'm tired. This sucks. Yeah. It's all the sides of the same thing, but, yeah. This is a slow round.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you in my life? Yeah.

[B]

I would say, like, my husband's favorite thing about me is that I always want to talk about what's happening. Like, what's happening here. And I would also say that's his least favorite thing about me as well.

[A]

Yeah, I got some similarity on that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Who are you jealous of?

[B]

I'm jealous of. Who am I jealous of? I guess I'm jealous of. God, what an ugly word.

[A]

The follow up question is, who are you jealous of? That you didn't say, but you thought of.

[B]

Yeah, Like, I'm, like, jealous of, like, Tilda Swinton.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You know, because, like, I don't wish her. Like, I.

[A]

No one wishes her. I don't wish her ill. No one wishes her.

[B]

I want her to live.

[A]

We wish. We're wishing you.

[B]

Well, I just think it seems like she figured it out.

[A]

The body of work stands for itself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Tilda Swinton canon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is. Is gold.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I get it.

[B]

She seems like she's doing it, and I want to do my version of what she does, whatever that is.

[A]

Tilda, if you're. If you're listening. Yeah, we want you here.

[B]

Let me know what I.

[A]

Let us know. Let us know what we could do.

[B]

Like, I just. I heard her on, like, an interview where they were asking her, like, the most intense questions, like, kind of about, like, political things and stuff. Like, she had no fear. She was so. She just had all this. She just did everything she said, everything.

[A]

Do you remember a time you were caught in a lie?

[B]

Oh, God, yeah. In fifth grade, I read Roald Dahl's autobiography.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And he fakes in appendicitis.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And I did that.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Uh huh. And I was like, ugh.

[A]

Did you get the idea from the Roald album?

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

My mom took me to the doctor and I knew just what to say. I just wanted attention, but it got taken too far. And they took me to the hospital and they gave me a series of, like, very aggressive enemas.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And I was like, I was lying. I was lying, but it was too late. I didn't have any shit left in my body.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And they're like, we can't figure out what's wrong with her. It's not her appendix. And I was like, I was lying. And so I wasn't even really caught in a lie. I just got taught my lesson.

[A]

Wow. With friends and family, what topic do you worry that you talk about? Too much. That's a new one.

[B]

I worry that I tell my parents too often that they need to go to therapy.

[A]

That's great. And they never go.

[B]

No, they never.

[A]

They're like, in their 70s.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not gonna change.

[B]

And I'm not saying in that sort of reality TV way, like, you need therapy. Like, it's not like that. I, you know, I don't watch a lot of reality tv, but I remember that being a thing. Everybody should go the way they should go to the dentist. That's what I think. Not everyone has the means or the time, but, like, it's not an insult. It's, like, hysterical. You're mental. It's like, hey, you seem to be grieving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe you should talk to someone.

[A]

What do you daydream about?

[B]

Sometimes I have a really specific daydream that I've been cast in a movie where I get to sing, like, a pretty song and that I'm singing it at the table read, and everybody realizes that I'm, like, a lot better than they thought.

[A]

It's really funny. Support for working it out comes from Rula. Look, finding a therapist is hard. Just ask me. I've had two therapists over the many, many years. Finding one that takes your insurance is even harder. And we never talk about this. Sometimes keeping a therapist can be hard. This happens sometimes against all odds. You find a therapist who takes your insurance, and then they change offices and they. Or they retire or they die. I mean, that's. Another friend of mine had that happen. That's a whole deal. When your therapist dies, that can happen. Natural causes, you know, or they don't do virtual appointments, all these things happen. But with Rula, you can avoid these problems because Rula is an online therapy platform that partners with a network of over 15,000 therapists and psychiatrists nationwide, enabling you to find your personalized solution and the right therapist for you based on your needs, preferences, and state requirements. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit rula.com for Biggs to get Started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about Rula. Please support our podcast and let them know that we sent you. That's rula.com r u l a.com/for biggs b I r B I G S. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Support for working it out comes from Mint Mobile. If you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no bs. Here's why I said yes to making the switch and getting Premium Wireless for 15 bucks a month. I tour the country. I tour the world. I've been super satisfied with Mint Mobile's coverage. Trust me, I know what it's like to be stranded in a broken down car in the middle of nowhere. I talk about it endlessly. It's not fun. But Mint Mobile runs on the T Mobile 5G network, America's largest 5G network. I used to have a wireless service that shall remain nameless because I thought it was overpriced and didn't provide coverage that I needed. Then I made the switch to Mint Mobile and I love it. Ready to say yes to saying no? Make the [e-mail] biggs that's mintmobile.com perbigs upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer for 3 months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint MO for details. Do you have anything in your notebook? What do you call it? You, you call it like bips and bops or something?

[B]

Well, that's on my computer. It's problems. Well, no, I have scraps. Scraps, scraps, scraps and then fragments and problems, I think.

[A]

Do you. Are you open to sharing any scraps or fragments and problems today on the show?

[B]

I have one thing and I just, I can never make it work. I always feel like I come off really mean on stage when I do it. So basically, like I was just trying to. Or maybe I'm just old and people don't think what I'm saying is funny, which is like a terrible, you know, it might be.

[A]

I doubt that's it, you know, comedian.

[B]

In your 40s, you don't know. But anyway, it's that like how weird it is that you're that like, my husband's not doing this, you know, so also he gets implicated. The whole thing doesn't work. But anyway, let's say it's weird that my husband can look at like a picture on Instagram of like his friend's cousin in her bathing suit, right? Because if, if he came into the bedroom and I had like a shoebox of physical photos and I was looking at like the cousin of his friend Nick or something, and he was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm looking at a picture of this guy Neil in his bathing suit. He'd be like, why, why are, why, why do you even have that picture?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so like it's this like weird world where it's like, what are we all doing? You know, like, is anyone keeping tabs on what we're doing? And I know it's, you know, really been exacerbated. But then there's the other thing of like when, you know, he. Again, imagine it's, he hasn't done this. But. But whatever. It's my fear fantasy. Like, he posts a picture of spaghetti and meatballs and one of his ex lovers, like hearts that likes the picture. And it's like, at best she's like, I like your spaghetti. Right? And at worst she likes it. And it's like, remember when I came? Remember, like when I was like riding you? Like my titties are bouncing up and down and I came. Yeah, yeah, that like eight years ago. You know, it's like, what's fucking talking about his spaghetti?

[A]

Right?

[B]

But a. That doesn't really represent my personality anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I kind of feel like I just like, don't care.

[A]

Right?

[B]

But I really like that bit. No, it's funny, but it's not really my style. Maybe that's why I can't do it.

[A]

I think it's your style in the sense of like, it's a, it's a very true observation about the odd sort of like voyeuristic like role that we allowed us ourselves to slip into. Yeah, it's so strange.

[B]

Ye.

[A]

I think about that a lot.

[B]

Like, that you can know what so many, like, I haven't seen most of my male friends with their shirts off, for example.

[A]

Like, like, and now you can zoom into them.

[B]

Canadians aren't. Yeah, like pizza partying at the, like at the pool or whatever. Like, I don't, I don't feel like it's happened. In fact, someone asked Gabe Levman, like, or Max, one of us, like, what is the key to having a 20 year like best friendship? And one of them said, don't see each other in your bathing suits. More than twice a year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like, I think that's actually fair.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now I'm like, I actually know what a lot of people's like, nips look like. Right. And that's kind of weird.

[A]

It is weird.

[B]

I'm not comfortable with it, but yeah.

[A]

It's almost like the miss. It's almost like the era of mystique gone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's like no mystique.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And nothing also, like just nothing feels inaccessible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything feels like. Yeah. What's that person's. What does that person's stomach look like? Let me find a photo.

[B]

You know, it's so weird. I don't think we should have it. But I'm not saying anything new.

[A]

No, I know what you mean. But what's funny is with you because you're not on social media, you are putting your money where your mouth is in terms of like making a point like that. Like, I don't go. I don't go down this rabbit hole.

[B]

Well, it is true. I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like that was one of the last things that I thought of before I was like, I don't wanna do this anymore.

[A]

Is that why? Because you were in that rabbit hole and you were like, oh, no.

[B]

It just made me feel bad. In all the ways that everybody feels bad, you're not doing a good enough job. You're not. You're ugly. Everyone hates you, but everyone likes you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

How are you gonna. What is it? Like? It's. I felt the pull of it. It felt like the ring. The Gollum ring.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like you could do something, do a bit where you like are. Are arrived. I mean, this is not like the funniest part, but it's like narrative wise, like how you arrived at being off of it actually. That's because you actually are off of it.

[B]

That's really the key.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just gonna have to try to remember something funny that happened and not just like all the sad stuff.

[A]

Also like leaning into the act outs of the photos and all that.

[B]

Oh, that's really fun.

[A]

Could be good. Just because like when I watch your stuff, it's helpful. It's fun. Well. Cause like whenever I watch your stand up, I'm always like, if I worked with Jenny, I would just be like, everything you're doing that's weird. I would fucking lean into it a thousand percent. You know what I mean? Whenever you're doing your sound effects or your workouts and you're just like non sequiturs. And like, I'm always like, do I just keep going?

[B]

Oh, I feel like I'm so leaned into it that I'm lying down, basically.

[A]

It's rock and roll. It's so good.

[B]

Oh, thank.

[A]

Just, like, I wouldn't give up on the bit you're saying I would do it, but I would. I would explore the act outs of the photos of the videos of the. Whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think, like, you have a superpower in that. That. That. That I don't have. That. That 99% of people in comics do not have, which is you're an amazing actor and you're amazing improviser. So, like, if you live everything that you're saying, if you're passionate about the thing you're saying, it's gonna pop hard.

[B]

You're blowing my mind right now. That's. I genuinely, like, have been like, I'm not gonna do stand up again. I think I'm done and I just wanna do it again.

[A]

No, you're great.

[B]

Cool. Okay, cool.

[A]

Do you have any other bits that you're like that are half. Half premises, half ideas?

[B]

No, no, no. I wanna hear yours.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think I've taken too much time.

[A]

This is not great.

[B]

I'm sorry. I hate myself.

[A]

This. This is one that has a front but doesn't have a back, which is like, I was. I was. I was on a subway platform with my daughter and. And she just turned 10. And she goes, sometimes I don't feel 10. And I go, sometimes I don't feel 47. And she goes, I don't even think of 47 as an age. I just think of it as a number I use in math class. And I. I wanted to just jump right in front of the train, but then I thought that would feel too causal.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I actually swore that I would not tell that joke publicly. But I do think it is kind of funny.

[B]

It's really funny.

[A]

But I don't know where to. I also don't know where to go with it, but it is an odd thing when your child can't even conceptualize your age.

[B]

Yeah. Because you know where I would go with it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What were we doing is like all the ages. And maybe you're just not like this. But, like, there were a bunch of ages, numbers that I could know what that is.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, you say 17 to me. I'm like, you are drinking a fountain soda. You have a boyfriend. You know, you have the windows down on a summer night, and you're just so cool. 100% 95. I'm like, you can't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know. Right.

[A]

And no, but. And then even like, it's like, yeah, 23. You're old, but I kind of get you.

[B]

Yeah. You're coming home. You're like, hey, dad. They're like, go, welcome back. Look at this guy. You know, like, you can see that person. But it is. That's where I would go with it is. Like, what is 47.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, what is it?

[B]

It's also. Is it a prime number? It's just a super problematic number.

[A]

It is. Prime number.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

No, that's good. She's like, I can. Yeah. I can only. I only see it as a number that is divisible by itself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. Trying to think of prime number. Prime number trivia.

[B]

I think that's actually kind of it.

[A]

It is, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. They do one thing.

[A]

I wrote this also, which is your age sneaks up on you. I'm hitting that age where I'm like, I guess I'm never gonna. For sure. You know what I mean? Like, I think I'm not gonna hit North Korea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't even think parts of Alabama are going to be on the. On the list.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that.

[A]

That's what I'm hitting, though, with my age. For real, where I'm like. Not China necessarily, but like. Like, there's certain places where I'm like, I don't think that's on the list.

[B]

Yeah. You're not.

[A]

Yeah, I. I don't think I'm gonna hit it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I might go to Greece.

[B]

You might.

[A]

I might also. Why not?

[B]

Have you ever been there?

[A]

No.

[B]

Me neither. Yeah. And you know what else is like, that for me is like, it was already a slim chance that I would ski, and now it's like, skiing is a good idea. Absolutely not.

[A]

I'm out.

[B]

You know, snowboarding. No one ever thought that was gonna happen for me.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Weirdly, I water skied, but that's cause of camp. But like, skiing, it's like, oh, I'll never. I'll probably never dribble a basketball again. Why would I?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

You know, I only did that because they made me in school.

[A]

No, you're right. You know, I think where that bit goes, if I end up doing it, is. Is like you're saying essentially, like going into a list.

[B]

The list.

[A]

The living list.

[B]

The list is so fun.

[A]

Just the list of things. I'm just not. I'm not gonna do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And then. And then you can really throw in some fun ones that are, like, weirdly almost boring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they were just already boring. So you're definitely not gonna do it now because it's too boring. Or I'm, like, obsessed with things that are boring.

[A]

That actually makes me think of the bit that I've been stage recently, which is like, when you're with someone a long time, you. You can say so much with so few words. Like I said, my friend was like, I want to go skydiving for my birthday and I want you to come. And I relayed this conversation to my wife and she said, you're going to do that? And that's when I realized I wasn't going to do that. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, no way.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

No way. Why would I want to do an activity that seems so dangerous, yet so fun?

[B]

Oh, my God. When we were in Cleveland, someone said to me, we're gonna go to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame on our day off. Do you wanna go?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I genuinely, without any hesitation or trying to be funny about it, was like, I can't do that. Cause I don't want to. You know, like, what am I gonna do? Like, see a guitar in a case.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not. No one's, like, playing. There's not a concert there. Which, by the way, I don't wanna go to anyway. Cause I don't like going to concerts.

[A]

Good on you for the honesty on that one. That's strong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't do that because I don't want to.

[B]

I can't do that because I don't want to.

[A]

I can't do that because I don't want to. Should be a fucking T shirt. All right. The last thing we do on the show is called working it out for a cause. Is there a non profit that you like to contribute to? Because what we will do is contribute to them, link to them in the show notes, and encourage others to contribute.

[B]

Yeah. I thought about this and I was like, okay, what should I do? Like, should I ask? My. My older sister works at Dana Farber Cancer Institute and has been working there for, like, I think, 20 years now.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And she's cared for so many people. And I was like, okay, maybe I should ask her. Maybe I should ask this. And then all of a sudden I was like, npr, man.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's a good one.

[B]

Like, I just. This is. I think they're on like, week, what, two or three maybe, without federal funding. I contribute to my local NPR station here, wnyc. I contribute to what used to be KPCC in la. The La est. I contribute to WGBH in Boston and KCRW as well in la. And I really, wow. I just, I genuinely fear for the world without public media. I and I feel that it's excellent journalism and that's, that's where I'm at.

[A]

I think that's such a great.

[B]

National public Radio, baby.

[A]

That is such a great idea. We will contribute to npr. We will link to them in the show notes. And thank you Jenny Slay, for coming. This is Joy.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

This was so fun.

[B]

This was so fun and useful and.

[A]

Now we're neighbors and we can talk about jokes all the time.

[B]

Yeah, that's really, this is really nice. Thank you.

[A]

Working it Out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out because there's no that's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Jenny Slate on Instagram at Jenny Slate. Listen to I need you guys every Thursday on the SiriusXM app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel @Mike Birbiglia this is a really good visual one today, especially when she does Marcel the shell voice. And I did not see that coming. You can see my face being astonished. She goes into this iconic voice. We are putting more and more videos on the YouTube channel if you don't mind. Click subscribe. You will get more and more content that we are posting. Check out birdbigs.com and sign up for the mailing list. We are going to be doing another J. Hope Stein jokes and poems at Joe's Pub coming soon. We're going to announce that on my mailing list so sign [e-mail] to be the first to know. Our producers of Working it out are myself along with Peter Salomone, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Una who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. I saw today someone wrote a really nice review of our premium episode where we work out listeners jokes but you don't need to be premium to get all 180 episodes for free with no paywall right now. Check those all out. Thanks. Most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell the two senior citizens you just overheard gossiping at the diner in the booth behind you. Don't be shy. Pop your head in that booth as they're discussing senior center romances and say, hey, if you're taking improv classes, you might enjoy this podcast called Working It Out. Mike Birbigli is an improviser, and he talks to other comedians and improvisers and creatives about the creative process. You can listen to it with Stanley back at your apartment. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.