193. Vir Das Returns: How to Find Your Voice, Literally

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out

Episode 193: Vir Das Returns: How to Find Your Voice, Literally

Date: November 24, 2025
Host: Mike Birbiglia
Guest: Vir Das, comedian, actor, author

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Overview

In this episode, Mike Birbiglia welcomes Indian comedian, actor, and writer Vir Das for his second appearance on the show. Their conversation explores Vir’s recent memoir Outsider, his creative process and struggles—literally finding his voice after vocal cord cysts—his journey between cultures and art forms, and the unique tension comedians navigate between authenticity and acceptance. Together, they "work out" both new jokes and bigger existential questions about comedy, storytelling, and personal growth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Finding One’s Voice, Literally and Artistically

• Vir’s voice crisis:

  • Vir describes waking up with vocal cysts the morning of a sold-out special taping, consultations with an ENT, and working with "Adele's speech therapist" to get his voice back in a week instead of six months.

  "The guy's like, all right, six months. And I'm like, fuck you. … Then I got taken to Adele's speech therapist and she was like, I'll get you back on stage in seven [days]." —Vir Das [04:00]

  • Mike shares his own experience with vocal health as a comedian, noting comedians are “vocalists of a sort” and often forget how much they rely on their voices [04:15].

• The sensation of memory in storytelling:

  • Vir reflects on how much writing a memoir forced him to comb through dim childhood memories, especially his formative years in Nigeria.

  "I have very few childhood memories before nine ... I just have these flashes." —Vir Das [06:13]

  • Both discuss the authenticity of not pretending to remember every detail, citing Mary Karr and David Sedaris as inspirations [06:44].

Cultural and Artistic Transitions

• Feelings of being an outsider:
  • From Nigeria to India to the US, and from Bollywood to stand-up, Vir has consistently felt “out of place.”

  "I'm kind of like the loser at the party who's like, how the fuck am I here?" —Vir Das [09:31]

  • The title of his memoir, Outsider, reflects this ongoing sense of confusion and failure as legitimate narrators of experience [10:00].

Creative Process & Experiments

• Creating new comedy formats:

  • Vir describes his new show Sounds of India, which blends rapid-fire stand-up with 80+ evocative sound cues from Indian life (rickshaws, parliament, school songs, etc.).

  "It's kind of like stand up meets tech a little bit...very rapid fire … and I try to do the thing of, here's what it is and here's how I feel about it." —Vir Das [12:10]

  • The innovative staging: a tree of cans representing sounds, audience wristbands that light and vibrate, and immersive concert-like effects [13:12].

• Performing two shows simultaneously:

  • Vir discusses alternating between deeply personal one-man storytelling (Hey Stranger) and the sensory-forward Sounds of India.

Authenticity in Comedy & Industry Observations

• Authenticity vs. Inauthenticity:

  • Vir and Mike discuss the challenge of transitioning from film to stand-up, noting that stand-ups “have the curse of authenticity.”

  "The audience would be like, you wouldn't watch this shit. Why would I pay to watch this shit? I've seen your stand up." —Vir Das [16:46]

• Family feeling of the Comedy Cellar:

  • Both comics find camaraderie and authenticity at the Comedy Cellar, NYC, because status and fame give you no advantage—you're judged by fellow comics and audience.

  "They don't care how famous you are...Do two seller comics think you're funny and then you're in." —Vir Das [17:41]

• Comfort with bombing & trying new material:

  • Mike and Vir reflect on the unique pressure to kill at the Cellar and how they “bury” new jokes in the middle of proven material.

  "I will do new jokes, but only in the middle of my set." —Mike [18:46] "If like a random Indian dude walks up and he's like, here's my new stuff guys, they're like, yo, you are new stuff." —Vir Das [19:29]

• The camaraderie of comics as 'lonely people':

  • The comfort found among other comedians is attributed to shared hardship, honest interaction, and being understood without social graces:

  "At any given point, your life experience probably isn't the shittiest at the table." —Vir Das [20:16] "It's interaction without social graces... A 45-second silence is fine." —Vir Das [21:07]

Personal Growth, Grief, and Relationships

• On marriage, grief, and connection:

  • Vir shares a vulnerable period when his wife wanted a divorce, his dog was dying, and the pandemic forced them into close quarters, ultimately strengthening their relationship through mutual compassion and caretaking.

  "Your achievements...are: Hey, he ate today. He did a good job. You know, I'll take the night shift. You're just cooperating all of a sudden." —Vir Das [26:01]

  • Observes how their bond was healed through shared loss and responsibilities [27:46].

• Rescuing street dogs:

  • Vir shares the story of two street dogs, Stupid and Lucy, joining his home—a metaphor for finding belonging [29:04].

Creative Habits and Philosophy

• Journaling & joke-writing:

  • Vir admits to journaling daily in a way he can’t read back—“regurgitation, not writing”—just to clear his mind for creativity [29:47].
  • Both discuss the importance of capturing rough ideas, then revisiting to extract promising bits [30:53].
  • Vir’s flow state: writing 90–120 minutes every morning right after waking for dream-fueled creativity [31:18].

• Filmmaking as stand-up:

  • Vir and Mike agree that directing a film is the closest experience to doing stand-up—control over every aspect, “infect[ing] every part of it with your madness" [32:39].
  • Discuss the Indian “narration” tradition: performing an entire film solo for producers as an immersive pitch [34:03].

• Influences and cultural upbringing:

  • Vir grew up on a mix of Bollywood and American/English-language TV and comedy, with Richard Pryor as an early stand-up hero [34:41].
  • Notes that "stories are not told, they are remembered," a wisdom passed from his diplomat grandfather that influences his pacing and comfort with silence on stage [39:05].

Craft of Storytelling and Stand-Up

• Elements of great stories:

  "If you were the same at the end of the story as you were before the story, don't tell the goddamned story." —Vir Das [41:26]

  • Transformation and interaction are the heart of personal stories [42:12].
  • Both note the importance of not forcibly injecting jokes when a moment isn’t funny, and trusting in the emotional arc [40:30].

• Working on bits live:

  • Vir “works out” a new observational bit about childhood games with a guard holding an AK47, playing with game mechanics like tag or hide and seek turned dark [52:00].

  "Hide and seek with an AK47 is really just cry and hunt." —Vir Das [52:04] "Tag with an AK47 is just a one-round game." —Vir Das [51:57]

Reflections, Advice, and Memorable Moments

On Music, Envy, and Advice

• Vir is deeply jealous of musicians and admires their instant sense of identity and cool [47:27].
• Best advice received:

  "You won't know when it's good. You'll only know when it's bad. So make sure to look around a lot." —Vir Das [48:31]

On Milestones and Savoring Moments

• Vir reflects on performing at Carnegie Hall and the importance of recognizing “you brought them, they brought you” and soaking in fleeting triumphs [50:20].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On finding your voice:

  "You don't think of yourself as a vocalist. And you go, no, you are a vocalist. Just a different type of vocalist." —Mike Birbiglia [04:15]

• On memoir writing:

  "Nobody tells you writing a book is writing it seven times, you know?" —Vir Das [05:41]

• On authenticity in comedy:

  "We have the curse of authenticity. We don't get to be inauthentic." —Vir Das [16:32]

• On the Comedy Cellar:

  "They don't care how many Netflix specials you've had. They don't care about any of that.” —Vir Das [17:41]

• On comics’ camaraderie:

  "We're lonely people." —Mike Birbiglia [20:47]
  "It's interaction without social graces.” —Vir Das [21:07]

• On the craft of storytelling:

  "Stories are not told, they are remembered, and they just come out of your mouth." —Vir Das [39:05]

• On change through story:

  "It has to have advanced you. And if it hasn't, I don't think it's worth telling." —Vir Das [41:13]

• On savoring success:

  "You won’t know when it’s good. You’ll only know when it’s bad. So make sure to look around a lot." —Vir Das [48:31]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:15] — Vir Das's vocal health crisis and recovery
• [05:30] — Writing a memoir, unreliable memory, crafting authenticity
• [07:15] — Sensory details and childhood in Nigeria
• [09:31] — Always feeling like an outsider
• [12:10] — Sounds of India show: concept and execution
• [14:35] — Influence of 'Old Man in the Pool' and taking stories to Lincoln Center
• [16:46] — Discussing authenticity/inauthenticity in comedy and Bollywood
• [17:41] — Entry rules and the spirit of the Comedy Cellar
• [20:47] — Comics as lonely people; camaraderie
• [24:32] — Pandemic, near-divorce, marriage, and healing through grief
• [29:47] — Vir’s unreadable journaling habit
• [32:39] — Parallels between stand-up and film directing
• [39:05] — Storytelling: pacing, silence, remembering
• [41:13] — What makes a great story
• [48:31] — The importance of “looking around” and recognizing good moments
• [51:57] — Vir’s AK47 childhood game bit
• [57:09] — Shout-out to the Goa dog rescue charity Yoda

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Additional Highlights

Working It Out for a Cause:

• Vir’s chosen charity is Yoda (Goa-based stray animal rescue); the podcast donates and links in the show notes [57:09].

Closing Compliments:

• Vir credits Mike’s Old Man in the Pool as a major influence, aspiring to reach such craftsmanship in his own storytelling [57:37].

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Conclusion

This engaging and deeply personal episode stands out for its blend of humor, vulnerability, and creative wisdom. Vir Das and Mike Birbiglia offer listeners a rare look at the intersection of cultural identity, voice (in all senses), and the art of making people laugh in the face of misadventure, uncertainty, and change. Their open, self-effacing tone is both inspiring and instructive for anyone interested in the craft of comedy or the journey toward self-understanding.

Transcript

[Vir Das]

I have to tell you this. I don't know why, but so you are always my last stop in the US in terms of last time. Last time I went to the airport from here and this time I'm going to the airport here and there's like a Bollywood song which goes like bar Intazar, right? And for some reason your name has enough vowels to be a. A Hindi phrase, right? So I knew I was coming here. So for 72 hours I've just been walking, going, Mike Birbiglia. Mike Birbiglia. I've done that 50 times for no reason over the last three days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mike Birbeglia. Mike Birbiglia.

[Vir Das]

That's your new. That's gonna be every Indian comment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You gotta send me that song.

[Vir Das]

I will send you that song.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'll play that on guitar. Mike Birbiglia. Mike Birbiglia. That is the voice of the great Veer Das. We're so happy to have Veer back on the podcast. If you haven't heard our first episode, it's from 2023. But he's a great comic, fascinating comic, fascinating actor. He's done a bunch of Bollywood movies. He has new book out called the Outsider, A memoir for misfits. We talk a lot about that today, by the way. Thanks everyone who came out to our Jokes and Poems show last week in New York City. That is a show that I do with my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. They sell out pretty quickly. There's only about 160 seats and so we notify our text mailing list first. So if you want to be on that mailing list, text Birbigs B I R B I G S to 917-444-7150 and then you'll be notified about the next New York City show. You will also be notified about me appearing in a Broadway show called all out from January 13 through 18 alongside Cecily Strong and Wayne Brady. All out is of course written by the great Simon Rich, who's written for SNL and the New Yorker and many books. It's a follow up to all in, which was last year on Broadway with John Mulaney, Nick Kroll and Fred Armerson. All these great folks. I'm thrilled to be a part of it. You can get tickets@allout broadway.com thanks to everyone who has signed up for Working it out premium on Apple Podcasts. We really appreciate it. Thank you. This week for Thanksgiving, we're releasing a bonus episode where I punch up listeners jokes. Your jokes. We punch Up, I think about 10 jokes. It's me and Pete Holmes together as a team punching up your jokes. You can subscribe for that on Apple Podcasts to get the bonus episode this week. We really appreciate the support. This is a great conversation with the great Veer Das. He's had a fascinating life. We talk about his career as a Bollywood movie star. We talk about what it was like for him growing up in Lagos, Nigeria. And we talk about jokes. We work out jokes. It was really fun episode. I think you're going to love it. Enjoy my conversation with the great Veer Das. In your special, you show like, a split second of a camera down your esophagus, I think. And because you lost your voice.

[Vir Das]

More than lost my voice. I had cysts, you know, so. Yes, I was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

God.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And so you lost. Yeah, you lost your voice. You had cysts and so they took them out.

[Vir Das]

No. So we. We're doing this special and we sell out the venue six weeks before we film. And that morning I woke up with cysts.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Vir Das]

And yeah, the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you went to ent Doctor.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, I was in London and I got taken to the guy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Vir Das]

You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a big star. You get the guy.

[Vir Das]

And the guy's like, all right, six months. And I'm like, fuck you. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Six months. Like, vocal rest. Six months.

[Vir Das]

No, but six months till you have a quality voice again. Wow. And then I got taken to Adele's speech therapist and she was like, I'll get you back on stage in seven.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And now you sound like Adele.

[Vir Das]

Now I sound like Adele.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was wondering why you sound like a Dell.

[Vir Das]

There you go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I had the. I had almost identical. I recognized that exam that you had where they stick the thing down your throat. Because I. I think it's all. It's hard being someone who speaks for a living. You don't think of yourself as a vocalist. And you go, no, you are a vocalist. Just a different type of vocalist.

[Vir Das]

The amount of notes I got for that stupid. I wanted to put that up. And then we just got, like five emails saying it doesn't look like a throat.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really? That's funny.

[Vir Das]

Is this a picture of your asshole? What are we looking at over here? So we had to add the correct amount of blur so that it looked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Vir Das]

So it wouldn't trigger anyone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And of course, throat's an assholes. They're of the same.

[Vir Das]

They're of the same.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, they're of the same DNA.

[Vir Das]

It's the same tube.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

Depending on what time you show up at the doctor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vir Das]

It's not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People are being nitpicked. Nitpicky. But in fact, same creator.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. There you go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If you believe in that kind of thing, man, you've made a great special and came out with a great book.

[Vir Das]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's funny, like, when you write a book, I feel like you're combing over parts of your life where you go like, oh, I. For when I did it, I forgot that even happened.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you have anything with that where you. You were kind of shocked by your own memory of something?

[Vir Das]

For sure. Firstly, I'm not writing a book again for a damn long time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Like nobody tells you writing a book is writing it seven times, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

It really is a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you mean by that? What do you mean by writing it seven times?

[Vir Das]

Well, you. I did the first draft and then there was notes and then I changed. I threw out four chapters in my book and said none of this belongs in here. And then redid it completely after a year into it. Cuz life changed Right. Over the year. But I discovered and it's something to work on. I have very few childhood memories before nine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Vir Das]

So I was like, I remember everything after nine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And so I'm struggling. There's this Africa chapter in my book. Cuz I grew up in Africa.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And I'm like, I have to fill this with something because I. I can't skip, you know, just, I can't skip one through nine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And I'm like, I really have nothing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I just have these flashes. And so in the book, the chapter kind of addresses it and says, I don't know why, but I just have flashes. And here are eight flashes from Africa.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That's interesting. I try to do similar things. Like two of my favorite memoirists are like Mary Karr and David Sedaris. And I feel like they do a good job of leading the reader through the experience of the memory.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which is what you're describing.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because I think sometimes it's disingenuous to. To treat it like you have all the footage in your brain.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You remember the first day of kindergarten. You remember the last day of 10th grade. It's like, no you don't.

[Vir Das]

And it's also, I think what you remember strangely sensory. You know, Like I remember in. In Lagos, Nigeria, we had a. A house and then There was a 20 foot wall and there was a guard at the gate, it wasn't Safe. This is 1989, 1991.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Vir Das]

Right. And there's political turmoil in. In Lagos. And I remember there was a. A street nearby called Queen's Drive. Right. So when my parents would work, I'd sneak out and kind of get by the guard at the gate, like chuck my bicycle over the wall. Right. Climb the wall and cycle out to Queen's Drive, which is where like the rich people lived.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And it overlooked this lagoon. And I get in the water sometimes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, and I remember it was about 3:30pm I can tell you exactly what that golden light looked like on the water at 3:30pm And I can tell you the smell of whatever that plant was that floats on the top of the lagoon.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I can't tell you much else. You know what I mean? Like, that's all I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally. So that's a real quandary though, when you're writing a book or a memoir of stand up comedy. Like, I have so many things like that where you remember something.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it is. It sure as hell isn't a story.

[Vir Das]

And I also think people want to feel spoken to. Even in a comics memoir. I don't feel like they want to be written at. And sometimes I'll read like a comedian's memoir. And it's either very close to material and it feels like transcribed material or it feels really like, let me show you how amazing I am as a. How great my vocabulary is. And I'm like, I really kind of want them to hear me in their head.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

When they read this. As if it was this, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Was there anything where you were writing the book and you go, you're cringing at your own memory of something.

[Vir Das]

I mean, Mike, the whole book is cringe. You know what I mean? The whole book is. For some reason, I've seen the world more than anyone I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. India, Africa, America. London.

[Vir Das]

London.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Three world tours. And for some reason I've been let into more worlds than I expected. Like if it's rock music or Bollywood or here or anything. So I'm kind of like the loser at the party who's like, how the fuck am I here? You know? And should I talk to people? And is this the right shirt? And I was like, we both have representation here. So you get the call saying it's time. Because comedians write their first book kind of where we are. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's time to write the book.

[Vir Das]

It's time to write the book. Right. And I was Like I'll write it if you let me write it about failure and if you let me write it about confusion. And so that's the arc of the book. It's called the Outsider for that reason.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, because I think that's a broader feeling.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you're going to India right now. You're on, you're, you're, you're flying to India this week doing shows.

[Vir Das]

I have to tell you this, I don't know why, but. So you, you are always my last stop in the US in terms.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Last time was, last time I went.

[Vir Das]

To the airport from here and this time I'm going to the airport, right? And there's like a Bollywood song which goes like introduction, right? And for some reason your name has enough vowels to be a. A Hindi phrase.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Vir Das]

Right. So I knew I was coming here. So for 72 hours I've just been walking around going, mike Birbiglia, Mike Birbiglia. I've done that 50 times for no reason over the last three days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mike Birbeglia, Mike Bria.

[Vir Das]

That's your new. That's going to be every Indian comment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You got to send me that song.

[Vir Das]

I will send you that song.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'll play that on guitar. Mike Briglia. Mike Bir. So interesting. Can you say what the show is telling me?

[Vir Das]

So I, I'm doing two different live shows, right? And one is called the Sounds of India. And it's every sound that you'll hear from 3:45 in the morning, which is a bird called the coil, to 3:44 in the morning when you go back to bed. And so it's everything from rickshaws passing by to politicians thumping their desks in parliament, to school kids singing in assembly at 8 o' clock in the morning, to the guy selling something outside your house, to the evening news, to the sound of a cricket bat. We have mosquitoes that come out at 5:30, 5:30 is mosquito time in India. And we have these rackets that you wave at a mosquito and you can murder them. And that has a particular. Like when a mosquito pops in an electrified racket, there's a sound to it that every Indian knows. So it's, it's kind of like stand up meets tech a little bit where it's, it's very rapid fire and it's 80 sounds. So it's really bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang onto something else. And I try to do the thing of here's what it is and here's how I feel about it. So at least it gives you some of me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love that. You know, it's an interesting way in.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because like, sometimes on this show we'll ask people, what's a sm, What's a smell you remember from childhood. But like, what's a sound is a good one. Any of the sensory things that honestly, like you don't think about.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are a great. Just entry point.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. And it's also. I was like, I want this to feel like a concert. I really do. And so we went all out. Like, we have a. My set is a tree and the tree just has cans. You know, like, remember, like, you had a can and I had a can and there was a string in between them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vir Das]

And we'd hear each other.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, like a tomato can.

[Vir Das]

Like a tomato can.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, exactly.

[Vir Das]

Literally looks like steel cans. And they hang from this tree. And every time I play a sound, one of them lights up like it's come from somewhere in India.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's beautiful.

[Vir Das]

And we give the audience wristbands that have light in them and that vibrate. So when I play a sound, it kind of. Oh, my God, you know, vibrates through the room.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Beautiful.

[Vir Das]

You know, so you feel immersed. Right. So I wrote that and then I just did a two week run at the. At the Lincoln Center.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, great.

[Vir Das]

At the Claire Tower. And that's a show called hey Stranger, which is like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like the book.

[Vir Das]

Like the book. It's very much my story and like a one man show kind of a thing. So it's a trip kind of going from. Because I just did 18 shows at the Lincoln center. And like adjusting from that to now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The concert, that's so hard.

[Vir Das]

Is. It's fun, though.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's fun. Yeah. You know, but yeah, holding. I guess what I mean is holding two shows in your head at the same time is a little bit of overload. Probably.

[Vir Das]

Well, I had. I mean, I gotta give you flowers, man. Like, I remember coming and seeing you with the Vivian Beaumont and we hung out backstage for really. But I think that deeply had an impact on me. You know, I was like, like, Old man in the Pool was a fantastic show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, thanks.

[Vir Das]

And I kind of went away from that saying, would my story work in a room like this? Like, if I. If I sat down and authentically told my story? Cause that really would be a litmus test if Indian comedy is. Can translate over to just a random person who showed up at the Lincoln Center. Yeah, of course. For an off Broadway show. And so I have a director for the first time and I never worked with a director, a guy called Moritz. And so I just spent, you know, 18 nights developing it with him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's great.

[Vir Das]

And I'd never been through that process, you know, so I learned a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you like most about telling stories?

[Vir Das]

I like that somehow it doesn't. This is fufu, but it doesn't live in you anymore, and then it goes into somebody else, and it kind of becomes theirs. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And strangely enough, it's kind of their version of the story and how they saw it. I'm fascinated by how different stories are perceived. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because you, before you were a standup, you were like a Bollywood star.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. And star is middling at best. Like, I want to manage your expectations. You know, I've been in 14 Bollywood movies, which is like two good movies or three good movies.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, sure. Yeah. What was the worst movie you were ever in? Can you say?

[Vir Das]

Oh, yeah, sure. I was in a movie called Mastizade, which was just like this cringy sex comedy. Yeah, right. And it's. It was very like. I mean, when was American Pie? It was like, the early 2000s.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

But you don't do that shit in 2018 or 20. 2015. Right. So we were doing that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And just kind of regressive, and the audience is like, he's doing this for the cash. And.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Vir Das]

And I think the thing with standups is we have the curse of authenticity. We don't get to be inauthentic. 100% true, you know, because the audience would be like, you wouldn't watch this shit. Why would I pay to watch this shit? I've seen your stand up.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Vir Das]

So very much. I think that's what happened with that. And it was a massive movie. Like, did well. But, yeah, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, it's funny. Like, you and I have this thing in common. You talk about it in your book, which is like, we feel like your book is called Outsider, but you've always felt like an outsider. But at the Comedy Cellar, you do feel like it's a bit of a family. I have the exact same thing. I've always felt like an outsider. Something about. What is it about that place? Tell me what you think it is.

[Vir Das]

I think it's because. Well, it's. It's Estee and Liz for sure. But I do think it's that they won't talk to management and that they don't post the lineup and that the only way to get in there is through other comedians.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Vir Das]

I Think the entry.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right. In other words, they don't talk to your agent or your manager or anyone in show business, and they don't care.

[Vir Das]

How famous you are. They don't care how many Netflix specials you've had. They don't care about any of that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a really good point.

[Vir Das]

Do two seller comics think you're funny and then you're in? Like, I auditioned at the Cellar after three Netflix specials.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know what I mean? And I was happy, too. But that's kind of nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's interesting, too, because they really love international comics, too.

[Vir Das]

They do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think part of it is that the. The shows have an international audience.

[Vir Das]

It's very diverse. The people coming in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a genuine. It's an act. The comedy seller. And this happened in the 20 years I've been there, 25 years I've been there, it went from being a great comedy club to being, like, an international New York City destination.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a tourist spot in that sense as well. Like, you want to go see the Cellar? Yeah, you know, but I don't know. Are you comfortable bombing at the Cellar yet? Like, with new shit?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nope.

[Vir Das]

Same. Like, I. I want to get up and I want to kill. You know, and there's other rooms that I'll be okay. Kind of being like, what's next? What is this?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I will do new jokes, but it will only be in the middle of my set.

[Vir Das]

Interesting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which is to say I open with something that works, I close with something that works. And then in the middle, I'll try out, you know, like, one of these cards on the walls, like, a few. A few things. But I find that when you try out new stuff, there's an energy to it.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That surges the whole set. So even if the bit isn't even that strong, it's spontaneous.

[Vir Das]

Do you call out that you're trying new stuff?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Usually I do. Usually, like, I'll hold. Hold up cards.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, same.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which I. Yeah. Which is a trick I got from Jimmy Carr.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. With me, it's less easy because they don't know who I am.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

Do you know what I mean? At the cello.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Vir Das]

Right. So. So if, like, a famous guy walks up and he's like, all right, here's my good stuff and here's my new stuff. They're like, oh, my God, we're going to see this guy. We knows new stuff. But if, like, a random Indian dude walks up and he's like, here's my New stuff, guys, they're like, yo, you, you are new stuff. You know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You are new stuff.

[Vir Das]

What are we doing here? Yeah, total, you know, so, so I, I, I, I get less leeway with that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's also, I think there's something to be said and I don't know how this carries over into other fields. I don't want this to be such a closed off inside comedy conversation, but it's like there's something about being around other comics.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where there's something calming about it. Yeah, I know. I can't even put my finger on it.

[Vir Das]

If I had to guess. It's, it's one of three things that @ any given point your life experience probably isn't the shittiest at the table.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, true.

[Vir Das]

You know, like whatever. Your, whatever shitty gig you just got off of, someone had a worse road story than you did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Vir Das]

This week at that table of five people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, 100.

[Mike Birbiglia]

True.

[Vir Das]

You know, it's probably, that's a, that's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A. I think that's one of the.

[Vir Das]

Things, you know, I think we're lonely people. I think comedians are.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're lonely people. Number two, lonely people.

[Vir Das]

So, so we're just kind of, it's, it's inter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why do you think that's true? Why do you think comics are lonely people?

[Vir Das]

Well, because we spend so much of our life alone and if we're, we're not fully present in a situation, we are kind of sponging a situation so that we can write about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, but I like being with comics because it's interaction without social graces. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, yes, agreed.

[Vir Das]

A 45 second silence is fine. You know, like, there's a comedian at the Cello called Nimesh Patel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Great comic.

[Vir Das]

Great comic. Right. And I was at the Improv in la and he's like, let's go hang out. And we went and hung out and didn't really talk at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great.

[Vir Das]

We just got some vodka and some beer and just in nachos and really didn't talk for 55 minutes. And then we're like, this was great. Let's do it again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

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[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you found yourself back together. But now that your dog has died and the pandemic is over, what do you think brought you back together in a way that feels Enduring.

[Vir Das]

I think we. So, I mean, the context to it is I signed this American TV show called Whiskey Cavalier in Prague, right? And it was. I was just living in Prague for six months. Now there's two parts to that. A, your wife is lonely, your dog is sick. You don't want to move your family to Prague. Cause you don't know if this thing is gonna go, you know, Prague is great for four days if you like chimney cake. And then it's done, you know, but. And it's minus whatever 900 degrees.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They're filming a lot of stuff right there.

[Vir Das]

Right, right. It's great. Right. So I didn't know if it was going to go. So we're doing the long distance and you know, it's that weird sixth year of, you know, fifth, sixth year of the marriage.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You kind of start famous era, seven year edge.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, right. So. So you're in. That dog got really sick. And then the pandemic happened. I come back and we found ourselves moving to this little town called Goa outside of Mumbai. And suddenly we had like fresh air, you know, we had a garden and we had a dog that we both clearly knew was going to go. And he had a year left, a year and a half at max, right? So now you are carrying him everywhere, you know, you're nebulizing him four times a day. You're doing the thing, you know, and it's forcing you to be kind. And so you're in a house where you're talking a little bit gently, you know, and you, your achievements that you measure each other by are. Hey, he ate today. He did a good job. You know, I'll take the night shift. You're just cooperating all of a sudden. But your tone softens everything. Your approach softens. And I really think he brought us back together like he was. That was his final symphony, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really pretty.

[Vir Das]

I wasn't around for his passing and I think that's something I carry, you know, I was told that he went around the house looking for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh God.

[Vir Das]

As he passed. Right. So I'm strangely not looking forward to death, but not afraid of death because I feel like I'll see him first. And I owe him an apology, you know, when, when that happens. But I mean, we went through that too, you know, where, where she had to deal with that. I was locked down on a, on a Jad Apita movie in London. And you couldn't leave. It was that two week quarantine, right. And I remember that the bubble, the bubble Right. And so I would have flown from anywhere in the world to be there for that, but I had to watch it on. On a FaceTime call. I would not wish that on anybody. My worst enemy in the world. I would not wish that on. But it forced her to be so compassionate with me in that and me to be so compassionate with her. And then you kind of come out of that going, look at what we went through. Like, this is insane. And you're amazing. And thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I had that with years ago. Our cat Mazzy died, and she was sick for months and months, and then I had to go for a gig. And it was like the. It was the final days. It was devastating.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, it is. You know, and. But weirdly, there's this dog who lived out on the street. Right. And the street called him Stupid. Right. And that was just his name. His name was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, his name was Stupid.

[Vir Das]

And a week later, he wandered into our house.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

He was sitting at the door.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

In the garden. And he'd always be at the gate kind of looking, you know, almost in like a. Is he dead yet? You know, kind of a thing. But one day he never left the house. And then three weeks later, he brought a friend. And this is this dog called Lucy, who was abandoned during the pandemic by a family that live. You know, they went home. I think they were in Europe, and they just kind of fled during lockdown, and they kind of left her in that house. So she'd been on the street and she came in. And the second she figured out she was safe, she slept for four days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Vir Das]

And we moved out of Goa, you know, after four years. They're both our dogs now, so they both moved to Mumbai with us. So the. The journey of watching two street dogs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Become home dogs is just a gigantic privilege.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Stupid and Lucy.

[Vir Das]

Stupid and Lucy. It's been great. They didn't know what a bed was. Stupid's never had a bed. First toy first. You know, dog park, you know, Etc. Etc. So it's been nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's sweet.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You talk about writing in your journal, but you can't read.

[Vir Das]

I can't read.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is crazy. You have to talk me through this. You can't read your own journal.

[Vir Das]

I can't read my own journal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can you explain this?

[Vir Das]

It's. It's. Some would call it journaling. I call it regurgitation. I'm just vomiting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

In the morning. That's literally it. I can't read a word.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So it's for the.

[Vir Das]

It's Fun.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's funny because I literally. I recommend an equivalent to this to people all the time, which is, you know, write something.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, it's the beginning of writing something great is writing something.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's probably bad.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But in your case, it's all bad. And it's not even really something you're gonna read.

[Vir Das]

It's not even writing Mike. You know, if you think about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Does it exist still? Is it like. So you have the notebooks. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And I've hundreds of notebooks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Vir Das]

But it is literally to say, I woke up with this in me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And now it's not. And then if I know it's gonna be something, if I know it's gonna be, you know, stand up, et cetera, I'll type it out. But.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. It's almost like you're writing it as an exercise. And then if you feel like, oh, this is something. You know, what I do with my notebook is I write my journal. I know it's junk. I assume it's junk. And then if something all of a sudden feels like that's something, I just circle it, I put a star, and then I kind of write it in something else. It's a good. That's a good practice. I think you do it every day.

[Vir Das]

Every single day. So I. My flow State is like 7:00am, 6:37am wow. And so I need to. I dream pretty cinematically and pretty vividly. So I like to get up, not really talk to anyone, and go into a room and write. And give me 90 minutes to two hours. And I'll come out and we'll have breakfast and we'll do everything. But. So my wife Shivani is great about that. I literally wake up and go into a room.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No kidding.

[Vir Das]

And don't come out for two hours.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You were gonna. In your final chapter, you talk about making the proof of concept of your movie Happy Patel.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that you initially were gonna shoot it on an iPhone with no lighting or production, but your friend convinced you to actually produce it. Um, have you done sort of like iPhone type shoots before? Like, low production value shoots? I actually always recommend that to people.

[Vir Das]

For sure. I have, but I kind of jumped a few steps.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I. I mean, you've directed, like, two movies.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And it's the best thing in the world.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I'm writing my next one right now. All right.

[Vir Das]

Touch wood. You know, but like, I remember it's the only thing that feels close to stand up.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting. I think it's very similar To Stand up. I think films are very similar to.

[Vir Das]

Stand up in that in Stand up, you get to infect every second of it with your madness and every part of it with your madness.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And only a director gets to do that on a film is costumes, lighting, shot. You infect everything with your madness, whatever's in your head. Um, but for me, I. I directed two specials of mine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mm.

[Vir Das]

And I'd kind of been around on movie sets enough where I understood how to move a camera, I understood kind of what constituted good, you know, good framing, etc. And my specials ended up looking a little more cinematic than, you know, other specials that were around.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

At the time. And so I was like, okay, let me try doing a short film. I made a short film. Never put it out, but just kind of did it for myself. And then my producer on this movie is a guy called Aamir Khan, who's a Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt level star. And in India, we do something called a narration. And it's a great thing where if I want you, Mike, to produce my movie, I will come and perform the movie for you in your living room.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is in the book. It's a fascinating idea.

[Vir Das]

So it's a single man table read.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I will do every character and stage direction.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How long?

[Vir Das]

The whole movie. So it's three hours or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Vir Das]

With the lunch break or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The whole thing.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. So, I mean, my. My script was 101 pages, so that's 101 minutes. Yeah, effectively. And that's how they read the script.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you grow up on Bollywood movies or American movies?

[Vir Das]

It's a mix because we were in Africa. Right. So we got Bollywood cassettes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And then laser discs and DVDs, etc, etc. But then in Africa, we got Botswana TV, which was Richard Pryor, Sanford and Sons, Fresh Prince of Bel Air. So it was literally kind of the brown experience, the black experience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And that was kind of what I grew up on. My first exposure to Stand up is Prior. Oh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, like, Live at the Sunset Strip and Live and all that. Wow. That's a great. That's probably the best you can do.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, yeah. That's my in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's held up more than almost anybody.

[Vir Das]

Carlin. I think Colin is still getting quoted by both sides. Like, the left and the right are like, he's our guy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Vir Das]

Which is nuts. But yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Cause he was nobody's guy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's nobody's guy. You know, the interesting thing about Carlin is that if you watch that documentary.

[Vir Das]

Did you see the documentary, Judd's documentary? Yeah. It's really good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

One of the things I find really interesting about it in relation to the current conversation of, like, you can't say anything anymore. It's like Carlin also couldn't say anything, except it was pre Internet.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, like, they would get letters to every theater he was at going, this is offensive to Christians. This is offensive to Americans or whatever. And they just didn't cancel him. He didn't cancel his appearances.

[Vir Das]

I think with. With.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

But I do think back then, a comedian had more power to not take feedback and just kind of be like, here's my jokes. Good night, next city.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And now you have to. You kind of have to honor your audience's voice, you know, and the fact that it's as, like. As powerful as yours in some way, and maybe not. Not take the note, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right, right. But the notes are out there.

[Vir Das]

The notes out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The notes are available. A lot of takes.

[Vir Das]

But appreciate that they have feedback and something to say.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you have any pushback on the recent Netflix special?

[Vir Das]

No, not so much.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because there's nothing I could flag in it that where I would go, I would be concerned. Because you did be previously. Last time you were on this podcast, we talked about that.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, that was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That was very controversial. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I remember watching, like, a clip of it back then, and I was like, I look kind of sad in that one. I'm trying to be more cheerful on my side.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, you had a whole thing where it was like, there was a lawsuit against you in India.

[Vir Das]

I mean, there's a lot of lawsuits.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, that's wild.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, it was. But process is punishment, you know, that's all I say is. There were 14 police complaints, and those didn't get honored into investigations, but there's legal fees, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right.

[Vir Das]

That come with that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And also an extra. Probably an extraordinary amount of anxiety and.

[Vir Das]

Fear and eventually love and eventually, to be honest, ticket sales. And eventually, you know, it all kind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of controversy does lead to ticket sales one time.

[Vir Das]

One time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You can't get them over and over.

[Vir Das]

I know a lot of comics who are like, what can I say next? You know what I mean? And, you know, that's not currency. I don't think one of the things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I really like about your special is I feel like you effectively use silence, and, like, very few people do, very few comics do. And did you have to learn that, or was that sort of your natural rhythm when you started?

[Vir Das]

I'm figuring it out, you know, I'm still mid craft, so I don't know. But I grew up with the. With an old man, my grandfather, you know, I lived with him when he was 12 years. When I was 12 years old. And so this is a guy who is a diplomat, received the Padma Shri, which is kind of like our Medal of Honor, Indian ambassador to Bhutan, a Buddhist leader. And so strangers in our house, constantly waiting for his council to chant with him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Vir Das]

Right. And so that was my guy during puberty to go to for advice. So advice meant a story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Right. And the most powerful thing I saw him do was access a story in memory rather than tell you a story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

So if I'm like, baba, what do I do about this? He'd be like, you know, this one time, and then he'd go back and he'd remember.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And he'd be okay. Taking the time to remember.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, and you just sat there, you know, mouth open, captive, waiting for what was going to come out of his mouth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And till date, I've had that, which is stories are not told, they are remembered, and they just come out of your mouth, you know, and that's powerful storytelling.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

So to me, I'm comfortable. As long as I'm remembering something or I'm accessing some. Some sort of memory or emotion, I'll sit in a silence.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really interesting.

[Vir Das]

But I can't manipulate you with the silence. I don't think. I'm not there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. It's interesting you should say that. Cause I've recently been going back out on tour and I don't have an hour. And so I'm telling stories from my specials through the years. It's like six or seven specials. And so it's a lot of things to choose from. And I do find that the exact thing you're saying is true, which is if it's good enough to remember, it's a good story.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But sometimes I look back at my old stuff, I go, I just don't remember that. You know what I mean? And it's just that there's just not that much there.

[Vir Das]

And sometimes you. I think you're tempted to add funny to the story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Do you know what I mean? Where I'm like, at least on this Lincoln center journey, I learned that. Which is. Yeah. If nothing funny happened for the last 28 seconds of that story, don't try and put something in there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, just see what happens. Make sure there's a laugh around the corner. But if nothing funny happened towards the end of that story, just say how you felt about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I completely agree. Like, I was listening to my old albums and I was like, if I were writing this now, I wouldn't have that 20 seconds or that 15 seconds because there's something about it that feels desperate.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like that line feels desperate versus what's essential for this story.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. But I mean, I'm learning that, like, what's essential for the story is another, you know, just kind of. That's a journey as well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it is.

[Vir Das]

Just to stay authentic, to. Okay, here's what happened. Here's how I felt about it, and this is why it's funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you think? Having just done a storytelling show, what do you think are the ingredients of a great story?

[Vir Das]

I think it has to be remembered. I think that's one. Let's put that on the table. It has to have advanced you. And if it hasn't, I don't think it's worth telling.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great way of thinking about it.

[Vir Das]

If you weren't the same. If you were the same at the end of the story as you were before the story, don't tell the goddamn story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Vir Das]

You know, so I think that's. That's incredibly important. And if it didn't introduce you to another human being and kind of who they were and how they feel, I don't think it's a valuable story either.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I think, like, one of the things I've learned through the years is, is when you're telling personal stories on stage, you're the protagonist of the movie.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And if you're imagining this being a movie, the protagonist better be pretty interesting and have, like, you're saying, have a journey and be different at the end of the story than they were at the beginning of the story.

[Vir Das]

But also what makes the protagonist interesting is who's listening to the protagonist in the story. You know? So I would tell a lot of stories where I'm like, then I met this guy and then we did this thing, etc. But what makes it interesting is how this guy felt about me and my perception of that and the weird way he looked at me or this little wisdom he gave me. And so, like, to me, that's what makes the scene pop.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And the thing I've learned through the years is the most important. Everyone always says the most important thing is the beginning, middle, and end. I always say it's the end.

[Vir Das]

I don't have an end yet on this show. I'm still searching. I did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Vir Das]

Yeah, I did like 16 nights and like by, you know, God was kind. By like night eight, I was getting a standing ovation, et cetera. So, you know, they were starting to feel like there was some emotional beat at the end.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes. Something was happening.

[Vir Das]

Something was happening. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Maybe that was outside of yourself that you don't even fully get.

[Vir Das]

I don't know. And at least they were starting to get to their feet pretty quick or quicker every single night.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

In my movie version, in my head of this show, you know, it ends with me looking at my wife going, did I ever tell you this one time. And the camera kind of tracks out of a window and goes to, you know, a shot of trees, et cetera, et cetera. That's hard to do in a stand up show, you know what I mean? The pull away shot down the street. But that's the beat I'm trying to say.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what you're trying to find.

[Vir Das]

I'm trying to find that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, like the zoom out. Yeah, the zoom out of your story. Support for working it out comes from Mint Mobile. If you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no bs. Your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. Mint Mobile runs on the T Mobile 5G network, America's largest 5G network. I used to have a wireless service that shall remain nameless because I thought it was overpriced and didn't provide coverage that I needed. Then I made the switch to Mint Mobile and I love it. I love everything about Mint Mobile. I love the coverage, obviously the price. I love the green fox that wears the glasses ready to say yes to saying no. Make the [e-mail] burbigs that's mintmobile.com burbigs Upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer free for three months only. The speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for working it out comes from AG1. Oh, I love AG1. It is a daily foundational nutrition formula designed to support energy, immune defense, gut health and overall wellness. It is almost winter time. The days are getting shorter. There's holiday travel, crowded indoor gatherings. All of this can put a strain on your system. With AG1, you can stay one scoop away from the health challenges of the season. I love AG1 because a good sleep schedule is very important for me and AG1 helps keep my daily rhythm steady with superfoods and B vitamins which give me energy throughout the day. That way I'm not peaking and crashing with just coffee. Antioxidants, probiotics and functional mushrooms support immune resilience. This is important for me year round when I'm touring, I'm on airplanes, I'm on trains. I'm also in crowded auditoriums with all of you, which I love. Go to the site drinkag1.com burbigs to get a free welcome kit with an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 when you first subscribe. That's drinkag1.com forbigs working it out is brought to you by Aura Frames. Aura Frames are digital picture frames and I have a bunch of these that display a rotating collection of photos that you can upload and manage directly from your phone. We have one in our bedroom and it's got photos of my family. It's got photos from trips over the years. The holiday season is here. These are a great gift. You know how you have people in your life, you don't know what the heck to buy for them because they sort of get the things that they need and you go, that person has everything. This is the gift. Get some Aura Frames, load them up with photos of you and that person. You can upload unlimited frames, free photos and videos. You just download the Aura app, connect it to Wi Fi. You can also preload photos to your Aura frame before it ships. That means when your loved ones open the box, it's already ready for display with the photos. For a limited time, visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's best selling Carver Matte frames named number one by wire cutter by using promo code WIO at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code WIO for working it out. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year, so order now before it ends. Support this show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. This is what we call the Slow round. Who are you jealous of?

[Vir Das]

I'm jealous of any good musician. I really feel like if I could do that man, I'd quit this whole thing. I'd quit the acting, I'd quit the ST in a heartbeat if I was just good at that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the cliche. Comedians want to be musicians. Musicians want to be comedians.

[Vir Das]

I saw this reel today of this girl who's combining, like, Punjabi folk music with badass jazz, right? And new musician, whatever, 4 million views overnight, etc. Etc. But she does this thing where she just kind of has, like a growl in her voice, and she just kind of goes, yeah, and just kind of does a little bop. And I was like, I will never know what it feels like to be just that cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know what I mean? Just that out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I think musicians know who they are more than perhaps any other artist.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a good one. What is the best piece of advice that someone's given you that you used?

[Vir Das]

This has always been a hard one to. Because there's a lot of it. But I think someone said to me, you won't know when it's good. You'll only know when it's bad. So make sure to look around a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Beautiful.

[Vir Das]

So that when it's good, if you've looked around, you just kind of have that memory. Like, I was. I was talking to an old friend of mine, a college friend, and I was like, I feel like I've done a lot and I've just kind of left the next morning, you know? And she. She said, you know, she's like, you won't know when it's good. Nobody knows it's good when it's good. So just try and look around a lot, just on a daily basis so that there's memories. Like, I remember telling her I played Carnegie, and I have very little recollection of what that was like. And I don't know if I'll do it again or if I'll get to do it again. That was a big moment for somebody coming from India, right? And she was like, well, what do you remember seeing? Right? And I was like, I remember seeing. Well, I remember three things. One, they were like, you can't change the lighting, and you can't change the. The stage. We are Carnegie Hall. I said, great respect. And they were like, we start on time. We are Carnegie Hall. And I was like, about that. I'm Indian. All right? And you probably won't start on time. It's just a cultural thing, okay? And they were like, but we are Carnegie Hall. And I was like, yes, but again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Humbly, your fans might not show up on time.

[Vir Das]

I'm Indian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And we had an 8:00pm show. And then very sweetly, at 8:01, they came into my room. They're like, gonna wait 15 minutes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure, Right, sure.

[Vir Das]

But my friend, she was like, what do you remember about that evening?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Uh, huh.

[Vir Das]

And I said, I remember looking out into the room and knowing that this was 80% of these people. It was their first time in that room. And she's like, then that's your memory. So you don't remember what the green room looked like. You don't remember what the flyer looked like or the piano looked like, etc, etc, but you remember a feeling in the room, which is shit. We're all in Carnegie Hall.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah. You brought them there.

[Vir Das]

Or they showed up for me. But I may never come back to that room. And they may never come back to that room.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They brought you, you brought them.

[Vir Das]

You know. And she was like, you need to look around in your life more. Because that was a good moment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And thank God you noticed that. But just look around.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Great advice. Do you have anything in your notebook?

[Vir Das]

I. I made a note of two things. One, which is, it's just life story stuff, but it's really, really early stuff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

But I have. I grew up in Lagos, Nigeria with a 20 foot wall and a guard at the gate with an AK47 who's your only friend. Right. But it's hard to know if it's a real friendship when there's an AK47. That's great in the mix.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Vir Das]

And then I had childhood games change when you add an AK47. And so the three tags. You ever play tag with an AK47? It's really just a one round game.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right. Jeez.

[Vir Das]

Hide and seek within AK47 is really just cry and hunt.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. And then I'm trying to do this thing where I'm like, do you play house party or like tea party?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure.

[Vir Das]

As kids.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

So I want to kind of do what is tea party within AK47. So I'm trying to build that and kind of go from there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a really, that's a really fertile area. I mean you might have to explain to people why there was a guard. I mean like just the, just the context.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's. Yeah, it is. It's one of those things where I think about that all the time. Even at the airport when you go to certain countries and they have semi automatic weapons and things and you just go, what if you, if you're late for your flight? Sprinting. You know what I mean? You're sprinting there and all. You're misunderstood.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, I, I think about this more than you, Micah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally. No, of course.

[Vir Das]

I think I've said this to you before. Like when I fly, I Have to dress like I'm buying the airline, man. I have to like just I. At immigration. I have to be decked out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, you need them to know that I'm serious. You're the kind of person who might have a correlation with the person who is their boss or the boss of their boss of their boss.

[Vir Das]

So, yeah, that's the bit I'm trying to work on. This kind of Childhood Gilded Cage AK47.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What is the. Wait, what's the line? Can you repeat the line? The hide and go seek.

[Vir Das]

One hide and seek with an AK47 is just cry and hunt, Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It could just be hide and go seek with a word of seven as hide. Maybe we shouldn't. We don't have to seek.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, very nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's no need.

[Vir Das]

Nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But yeah, I think it's like a funny. It's a great. I mean, it's a great piece of imagery.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, it is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For like any kind of like. I'm trying to think of different childhood games. Did you do tag?

[Vir Das]

We had tag. We had hide and seek. We had.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What were the other punchlines?

[Vir Das]

The tag was one hide and seek. Then I had.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And what was tag? Oh, just tag is just a one round game. One round, Right.

[Vir Das]

Because you don't want to get tagged.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

You could do like a, a rifle pointing at a Barbie doll, right. And be like, which was his.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You don't need to haggle over this. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

[Vir Das]

You could do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You could do cops and robbers.

[Vir Das]

Cops and robbers? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Cops and robbers is just, you know, cops. I'm not playing the robber. I refuse to play the robber. I don't even want to pretend.

[Vir Das]

I mean, hopscotch is, well, post shooting. That's dark.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But yeah, it's dark. The whole thing is dark. Yeah, it is, but it's great. I think that's a great. I think that's a great joke. I was looking in my notebook today for things that we have in common because I think we're about the same age. I'm 47.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, I'm 46.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I go, I'm 47. And I finally feel my age. I feel like I've been 47 since I was about 15. And when I was in my 20s, everyone was like, Are you 47? Like, no, I'm 25. They'd be like, Cool. Now I'm 47. It feels like I'm 47, but also 15. You have that very nice. I feel like I'm both. I feel like I was never 25. I think I never was. It just didn't happen.

[Vir Das]

I think the question will then be, what is a 15 year old to you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

To expand on like that, like, I went to. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What is age?

[Vir Das]

But also, I went to a college yesterday to talk about the book.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

They don't look like college kids. Like, I remember them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They're young. They're young. Yeah, yeah.

[Vir Das]

My God, they look like school children, but they're post grads. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

So what does a 15 year old look like to you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Vir Das]

You know, I think would be interesting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think that's good. And then I wrote when I was. When I was 10, people were like, do you have kids? I was like, I know. I think I am a kid. I was 4ft tall and had acne. People thought I was starting a family. I. Yeah, so then there's that. And then I also had my daughter walking to school and she goes, you know, I don't feel 10. She's 10. I don't feel 10. I go, I don't feel 47. She goes, I don't even think of 47 as an age. I just think of it as a number I use in math class, which is entirely true. I don't have a punchline for it. It's just a ridiculous conversation. A number I use in math class.

[Vir Das]

There's a callback there. If you do the whole bit and your daughter's like, I feel 10. You'd be like, you should start a family.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's nice.

[Vir Das]

You know, you can come back to it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You deserve a family. That's good. So the final thing we do is working out for our cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? What we will do is contribute to them and then link to them in the show notes.

[Vir Das]

They're called Yoda.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yoda.

[Vir Das]

And they. Again, it's for dogs again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, great.

[Vir Das]

So they're a charity out of Goa and, you know, they help stray animals. They're good people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's Yoda. Co.in we will contribute to them. We will link to them in the show notes. They will be very surprised to receive a donation from me.

[Vir Das]

I think they'd be like, Mike Birbiglia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Those are gonna sing the song. Mike Birbiglia.

[Vir Das]

Hey, man, I. I just want. I do wanna say this on Mike before I leave Old man in the pool. When I saw it at the Vivian Beaumont, there's some pieces of art where you're like, I want to get to that level of craft and so I'm very much trying to follow in your footsteps of craft. You're a big influence on me and I appreciate you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That means the world to me. Vera. Continued success. You're doing amazing work. I hope people read your book, see your special, and see you on tour. You're doing amazing work.

[Vir Das]

Thank you man.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it out cause it's not done we're working it out cause there's no that's going to do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Vir Das on Instagram Vira Das V I R D A S. You can get his book the Outsider at your local bookstore. You can watch his latest special full volume on Netflix. Check out birdbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. And you can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel, Ike Birbiglia. Make sure you click subscribe because we're posting more and more videos. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomone, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simon. Sound mix by Shubh Saran Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy our show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts, it really helps. We've recorded almost 200 episodes. They're all free. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your doctor. The next time you lose your voice. Or maybe just write it down since you can't speak, just write a little note. Hi, I've lost my voice, but I'm really enjoying this podcast called Mike Birbiglia's Working it out, where Mike Birbiglia talks to comedians and other creatives about writing, performing, and how to get your voice back, literally and artistically. Thanks everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.