Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out
Episode 196: Michael Che – An Amateur Therapy Session
Released: December 15, 2025
Guest: Michael Che

Episode Overview

In this especially candid and comedic edition of "Working It Out," Mike Birbiglia welcomes SNL’s Michael Che for a wide-ranging and vulnerable discussion. The two comics riff on the unique pressures of writing and performing for Saturday Night Live, the evolution of their comedic instincts, experimenting with untested material, and touching on the realities of both fame and anxiety within comedy. The episode is full of playful banter, workshop moments, and honest insights about originality, work-life balance, and the state of stand-up today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Fears of Overexposure & Podcasting Anxiety

• Che’s Podcast Hesitancy: Che admits to a “secret fear” of podcasts; he dreads overexposure and the looming risk of “ruining the set with those last five minutes” (04:46).
  • “I feel like the more you talk, the closer you are into danger.” – Michael Che [04:54]
• Mike’s Experience: Mike relates, saying he only started the podcast during the pandemic out of necessity, and found comfort in realizing “the people who like it, like it.”

The Evolution of Bar Shows and SNL Origins

• Comedy Roots in Bar Shows: Che reminisces about the golden age of bar shows, particularly Hannibal Buress’ Knitting Factory shows; notes that bar shows were once vital for comics to get noticed (07:17).
• Weekend Update Break: Che’s own SNL journey began when Colin Jost caught his set at Knitting Factory, inviting him for a two-week guest writing position that turned into his long-running tenure (07:23).

Learning the Job & SNL’s Unique Demands

• Chemistry & Finding ‘Natural’: Che discusses how, due to inheriting Seth Meyers’ writing staff, it took years for him and Jost to find their own voice on Weekend Update and establish chemistry (09:33–12:17).
  • “We had to learn how to do it. … There’s a rhythm to it, you know?” – Michael Che [10:22]
  • Reveals Lorne Michaels' recurring advice: “Stop auditioning for the job. You have it... We trust you.” (12:03)
• Live TV vs. Stand-Up: Nuanced differences between writing for SNL, internal monologue, and the muscle memory needed for delivering jokes live—with cue cards—especially as a stand-up (10:56).
• Peer Pressure and the Grind: The exhaustion and cyclical emotions after a season, debating whether or not to return (23:01–27:14).
  • “It’s draining more than any stand-up I’ve ever done, more than anything I’ve ever done.” – Michael Che [26:05]

The Anatomy & Origin of the Joke Swap

• Joke Swap Origins: What started as a way to give each other ‘bad jokes’ at the Weekend Update desk (during Christmas) morphed into the now-famous bit where Che and Jost blind-read each other's most cringe-inducing jokes (15:25–17:23).
  • “Just letting the audience know that these are bad jokes made them laugh hysterically.” – Michael Che [16:33]

Navigating Edgy Material & Audience Permission

• Audience Needs Permission: Both Che and Mike reflect on the psychology of laughter—how audiences seek permission before indulging in “edgy” material, and how context can be everything (17:35–18:52).
• Embracing Bombs: Che laughs off criticism about him laughing at his own jokes on Update:
  • “I’m not laughing at my joke—I’m laughing at you not laughing at my joke.” – Michael Che [20:30]

SNL’s Highs, Lows, and Michael Jost Rivalry

• Years of Criticism: Che openly discusses the rough early years on SNL, the sting of critics, and how the right chemistry and trust changed the dynamic (13:29–13:57).
• Norm Macdonald’s Influence: Both comics cite Norm as the sentimental favorite for his singular, personal rhythm (14:00–14:40).
• Michael’s Exit Rumors & Psychology: Che admits to fueling annual rumors about leaving SNL as a psychological trick—both for himself and his audience (23:17–24:18).
  • “Maybe for me, I need to tell myself I’m leaving so that I could stay.” – Michael Che [24:14]

Comedy and Originality in a Social Media Era

• Rethinking Joke Release: Che laments the rush for comics to post unrefined jokes online, rather than honing them live for months, out of pressure to ‘feed the content machine’ (44:19–46:01).
  • “To me, I just… I get terrified of just… putting out all your stuff as opposed to really working on it and then presenting it when it’s ready.” – Michael Che [46:01]

Honesty in Comedy & Personal Material

• Punching Inward: On his own sketch show—That Damn Michael Che—Che purposely made most sketches confessional and self-critical (48:04–49:09).
  • “I wasn’t afraid because I knew I wasn’t lying about me... I’m literally choking myself.” – Michael Che [48:45]
• No Lies on Stage: He emphasizes the cardinal rule: “As long as you’re not lying, you’re okay.”

Life’s Surprises & The Realities of Fame

• Fame vs. Expectations: Che never expected to find success in comedy and had a more modest city job in mind (57:54–58:24).
• Fame ≠ Hot Girl Privilege: A comic riff: “Hot women have it way better [than famous people].” (57:16).
  • Birbiglia: “Being famous is like being a hot woman.”
  • Che: “It’s not, man. Hot women have it way better.” [57:16]

On the Craft: Workshop Jokes & Audience Feedback

• Working Out Bits: Che shares a years-old but still-unresolved bit about the N-word and “furble”—inviting audience discomfort and playfully channeling the taboo (59:52–62:23).
• Comedy as Social Critique: Che and Mike riff on jokes about holidays, reparations, and collective historical denial (63:09–68:08).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Stop auditioning for the job. You have it…We trust you.”
– Lorne Michaels, quoted by Che [12:03]

“Just letting the audience know that these are bad jokes made them laugh hysterically.”
– Michael Che on the Joke Swap [16:33]

“It’s draining more than any stand-up I’ve ever done, more than anything I’ve ever done.”
– Michael Che on SNL’s demands [26:05]

“As long as you’re not lying, you’re okay. Like, you just don’t lie.”
– Michael Che on comedy’s rule [49:28]

“I just need you guys to fight for me.”
– Michael Che on his SNL departure rumors [24:22]

“To me, the worst thing you can do is burn material.”
– Michael Che on the modern comedy landscape [45:13]

“Fame is not as good as being a hot woman. Hot women have it better.”
– Michael Che [57:16]

“My biggest fear is walking into my living room, my whole family’s already there [for an intervention]…”
– Michael Che workshopping a drinking joke [70:09]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• SNL & Bar Show Origins: [07:17]
• Finding the Update Groove, Lorne’s Advice: [09:33–12:17]
• Chemistry, Cue Cards vs. Stand-up Skills: [10:56]
• Joke Swap Segment (origins & innovation): [15:25–17:23]
• Bombing and Audience Permission: [17:35–18:52]
• Why Che Says He’s Leaving SNL: [23:17–24:18]
• Fame, Anxiety, Therapy riff: [27:24–28:04]
• Crafting Personal/Edgy Comedy: [48:04–49:09]
• Posting Material vs. Honing It: [44:19–46:01]
• Workshopping The “Furble” Bit (taboo words): [59:52–62:23]
• Riffing on Holidays & Cultural Myths: [66:26–68:08]

Additional Highlights

• On Eddie Murphy’s Superiority:
  “It’s discouragingly talented—I would say at comedy…he can just do anything, cold.” – Che on Eddie Murphy (32:23)
• Behind-the-Scenes of Update:
  Che describes pranking Colin Jost by telling the audience not to laugh at his jokes for April Fools (21:33–22:59)
• Personal Adversity:
  Che notes growing up in a house that relied on food banks and government support, which informs his empathy for others (51:04–52:16)
• Charity Plug:
  This week’s donation goes to New York Food Bank NGOs (73:51), prompted by Che's personal experience with food insecurity.

Tone & Dynamic

The conversation is loose, introspective, and full of mutual respect. Birbiglia routinely expresses his admiration for Che’s voice in comedy, while Che is open about his insecurities, work ethic, and changing artistic environment. There’s classic comic ribbing (“I will not sit for any Lorne Michaels slander!” – Che [12:34]) and genuine moments of connection—what Birbiglia dubs a kind of “amateur therapy session.” Their discussion is shot through with observations about craft, shifting cultural standards, and the relentless need for both innovation and honesty in art.

Recommended For:
Comedy fans, writers, SNL watchers, and anyone interested in the intersection of creative work, vulnerability, and the ever-changing landscape of comedy.

Further Information

• Michael Che on Instagram: @chethinks
• Charity Highlight: Food Bank for NYC (and local equivalents—see show notes)
• Birbiglia Tour Dates & Text Alerts: birbiglia.com