Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out

Episode 197: Natalie Palamides: Wisdom from a Modern Clown

Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Mike Birbiglia
Guest: Natalie Palamides

Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Birbiglia sits down with acclaimed comedian, actor, and clown Natalie Palamides. Together, they explore the unique discipline of clowning, its place in contemporary comedy, the art of physical performance, the value of vulnerability and failure, and the surprising directions one’s art (and life) can take. Natalie shares insights into her process, career-defining shows like Laid, Nate (now a Netflix special), and Weir, and her philosophy of creating comedy that’s both physical and deeply human. The conversation is candid, funny, and full of practical wisdom for comedians, performers, and fans alike.

Main Themes & Purpose

• Understanding the modern art of clowning: its differences from traditional or “birthday” clowning, and its emotional, physical, and experimental roots
• The intersection of vulnerability, failure, and comedy
• Creating and evolving solo shows, audience interaction, and managing risk onstage
• The influence of personal life on comedic character building
• Reflections on career, envy, making space for experimentation, and the future of physical comedy

Key Discussion Points

1. What is Modern Clowning? (05:48–09:23)

• Natalie describes clowning as “having fun being an idiot, being the stupidest version of yourself, and expressing that mostly through using your body as the canvas.”

  “You’re supposed to be an idiot and be the stupidest version of yourself, but clowning class is one of the hardest things you’ll ever do.” (06:32, Natalie)

• Natalie discusses the freedom clowning offers from the pressure to always be verbally clever.
• She sees her comedic lineage in Lucille Ball, Steve Martin, Carol Burnett, Molly Shannon, and physical icons.

2. The Exhausting Craft of One-Person Clown Shows (09:23–12:16)

• Discussion of Weir: Parodying 80s/90s rom-coms through physical gags (e.g., dumping water on herself for a ‘rainstorm’).
• Birbiglia likens the physicality to doing your own stunts:

  "It's almost like you're your own stunt person." (10:37, Mike)

• Natalie credits her strong core for surviving repeated falls and admits the six-pack is “by accident” (12:16).

3. Vulnerability, Failure & the Art of Letting Go (13:34–14:49)

• Natalie recounts her clown professor saying she’d “fail clown” because she couldn’t access vulnerability—ironic, because “the point is to fail.”

  “If I had failed clown, I maybe would have aced clown. But I did ace clown, so did I fail clown? Yes, because I didn’t fail.” (14:03, Natalie)

• Mike and Natalie connect this to all comedy: the power in making the secret, “the thing you don’t want to talk about,” funny.

4. Personal Fears & Layering Real Life into Comedy (15:25–16:53)

• Natalie admits to working out her fear of “turning into her mother” within Laid:

  "I have this... fear of turning into my mother, but I love my mom so much, so I never want her to know that." (16:09, Natalie)

• The show, which involves her hatching from an egg, uses physical absurdity to express deeper anxieties.

5. Audience Risk & Consent in Nate (19:08–23:36)

• Mike praises Nate’s boundary-pushing crowd work—Natalie details physically wrestling audience members:

  “Some of the guys... would get really aggressive. This one guy… he, like, flipped me up and threw me down… they thought he broke my neck.” (22:00, Natalie)

• She discusses learning to safeguard both herself and the audience (using waivers, mats) and adapting based on crowd energy.

6. Fearlessness & Physical Risk (23:36–24:54)

• Mike underscores Natalie’s “fearlessness”—she admits she is afraid (“skydiving… this is not worth it!”), contrasting show risks with real-world ones.

  “There’s this guy on my back. I’m supposed to trust him to pull the cord? What if this guy… he just decides your whole life in this moment.” (24:57, Natalie)

7. What is “Hack” in Clown? (27:52–29:23)

• Natalie reflects on how simple nudity has become a ‘hack’ shortcut for vulnerability in clown:

  "Getting naked just to get naked, that is hack to me in clown." (28:47, Natalie)

• She strives to keep nudity meaningful, woven into the context of the character and show.

8. Improvisation, Audience Engagement, and Development (36:44–38:13)

• Natalie emphasizes listening and adapting to audience response, even mid-show:

  “You’re supposed to go to where the audience is leading you to… you might have your show that you’re doing, but if you hear them laughing at something else, you’re supposed to drop that and do what they think is funny.” (37:45, Natalie)

• She illustrates with examples from Nate, where post-show feedback led her to add a key emotional beat (38:23–39:31).

9. The Evolution of Clown: From Chaplin to Birthday Parties (33:12–34:59)

• Discussion of the divergence between ‘performance clown’ (Chaplin, Steve Martin, Lucille Ball) and the “birthday clown”:

  “I can only imagine that it was like, people that really wanted to do those things, but didn’t really have... the chops. Didn’t have the skill... just threw on a costume to make up for skills they didn’t have.” (33:39–34:59, Natalie)

10. Dreams, Envy, and the Possibility of Modern Physical Comedy (50:09–52:07)

• Natalie admits to being “jealous of everyone on SNL” and those who get to make what they want without interference, even as Mike points out that many are jealous of her freedom.

  “I can only imagine. Watch a clip, watch a clip. Watch a clip.” (50:55, Mike, humorously speculating about Lorne Michaels seeing her work)

• They discuss whether there’s space for a “modern Chaplin” in today’s film world, agreeing that audiences crave more physical comedy (52:09–53:44).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clown Philosophy:

  “Finding the gold through accidents… That’s clown, you know.” (12:33, Natalie)

• On Vulnerability & Failure:

  “The point is to fail… The art of failure.” (14:03, Natalie)

• On Physical Comedy’s Roots:

  “A clown takes what limited resources it has to create the most magical, playful, imaginative world that it can.” (30:34, Natalie)

• On What’s Hack in Clown:

  “Getting naked just to get naked, that is hack to me in clown. So I strive to not do that.” (28:47, Natalie)

• On Character & Real Life:

  “I like to show that those people that go to anger really quickly have a vulnerable side… I like to play with that in my character work.” (31:44, Natalie)

• On Career Paths Not Going As Expected:

  “Did your life go how you expected it to go?” (53:44, Mike)
  “No, not at all. I never thought I’d be doing these insane theater shows…” (53:52, Natalie)

• On Supporting Experimental Theater:

  “It’s so important that people do experimental theater… The antidote for [AI and commercialism] is live performance. Specificity, experimentation… things that a machine could not come up with.” (60:01, Mike)

Timestamps of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|-------------| | 05:48 | Explaining modern clowning’s intent and appeal | | 09:23 | The physical toll and craft of one-person clown shows | | 12:33 | “That’s clown for you. That’s clown, you know, is finding the gold through accidents.” —Natalie | | 13:34 | On vulnerability, failure, and Natalie's college clown class | | 16:09 | Using performance to process parental anxieties | | 19:08 | The risks and boundaries of audience participation in Nate | | 23:36 | Natalie's actual fears—contrasts between stage and life | | 28:47 | “Getting naked just to get naked, that is hack” —Natalie on easy laughs in clown | | 37:45 | How improvising and audience feedback actively shapes clown performances | | 38:23 | Audience suggestion leads to a key emotional beat in Nate | | 50:12 | “Who are you jealous of?” —Natalie wants SNL (and creative autonomy) | | 52:07 | Is there space for a modern Chaplin? (Physical comedy in film) | | 53:44 | Natalie’s path: “Did your life go how you expected it to go?” | | 60:01 | The essential value of live, experimental theater in a digital/AI age | | 59:48 | Supporting The Elysian, LA's nonprofit experimental theater space |

Advice & Reflections on Craft

• You don’t need formal French clown school—just start, learn from varied teachers, and let the audience’s response guide you.
• The best bits often emerge from “accidents” or feedback—be open to changing your show based on what’s working.
• Vulnerability—what you’re afraid to share or admit—is often where the art’s “gold” is.
• Watch out for “hack” moves (nudity for its own sake, easy tropes)—strive for originality and intention.
• Support and participate in spaces for experimentation—live, risky, and specific performance is irreplaceable.

Support & Plugs

• Natalie Palamides:

  • Watch Nate (Netflix)
  • See Weir in London (Soho Theatre, Jan 14–24)
  • Follow on Instagram: @nataliepalamides

• The Elysian Theater, LA:

  • Nonprofit dedicated to experimental live performance
  • Donate/learn more [linked in online episode notes]

Tone & Style

Light, deeply candid, mutually admiring, and occasionally absurd—echoing the spirit of clowning. The conversation balances practical craft, emotional honesty, and physical comedy, with a playful rapport between host and guest.

For listeners or those curious about the modern art of clown, this episode is a thorough, heartfelt, and frequently hilarious primer—and an inspiration for anyone interested in making bold, deeply personal comedy.