203. James Acaster: He Welcomes Hecklers

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out – Episode 203

Guest: James Acaster
Release Date: February 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, comedian Mike Birbiglia welcomes the acclaimed British comic James Acaster, known for his originality, candidness, and his new HBO special "Heckler’s Welcome." Together, they discuss British and American comedy cultures, the unique challenges and freedoms of standup, personal creative struggles, the role of hecklers (and heckling itself), and the process of continually reinventing one's comedic voice. They also touch on personal topics including depression, near-death experiences, and the meaning of creative ambition—making this an insightful and relatable conversation for comics and fans alike.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Heckling: A British Institution

• British vs. American Heckling ([00:00], [11:58])

  • Heckling is much more common in the UK than the US, even at major events (like Paul McCartney’s Q&A).
  • British audiences expect comedians to handle hecklers with wit; simply admonishing hecklers as "rude" would alienate the room.
  • In the US, audience tends to back the comic against hecklers; in Britain, "if you did that in the UK, the whole room would turn on you, you know, because you're not good enough." (Acaster, [11:58])

• A Notorious Heckler Story ([12:00]–[14:13])

  • Acaster recounts an incident where two persistent front-row hecklers led to two entire rows walking out in protest when they were finally ejected.
  • "One of them was a little old lady...yelling at me, ‘If you can't handle heckles, you never should have got on that stage.’" (Acaster, [13:38])

The Pursuit of Originality

• On Being Unique ([04:26]–[05:43])

  • Early in his career, Acaster was obsessed with being seen as original to a fault—sometimes even hiding punchlines to avoid predictability, which ultimately "hurt me a bit."
  • Learned over time the value of mastering fundamentals and audience connection: "Rejecting all the rules before I’ve learned them in order to be original..."

• The Perils of Pigeonholing ([06:34]–[08:14])

  • Both comics discuss the pressure to stick to certain themes, like depression or having a narrative arc, after early career successes.
  • Acaster shares: "I was a bit concerned... oh, do I have to do this forever? I don’t want to do that forever."
  • Ultimately, the lesson: Artists thrive by following their honest interests, not imposed expectations.

Artistic Anxiety and Learning in Cycles ([09:45]–[10:40])

• Both acknowledge that each creative cycle brings the same lessons anew: trust your voice, deliver with energy, adapt to the room.
• "With each show cycle, I’m learning the same lessons over again. It’s annoying...you just should commit to your own voice." (Acaster, [09:45])

Performing and Mental Health

• Pre-show Rituals and Anxiety ([27:38]–[30:08])

  • Acaster describes a detailed pre-show ritual developed to manage nerves and prepare for performance:

    • Grounding exercises (noticing sights, sounds, body sensations)
    • Visualizing audience scenarios and practicing responses
    • Remembering what actually constitutes a "good" gig—what is controllable and what isn’t.

  • "What makes a good gig for me… good audience, good venue, me performing well, me being disciplined on stage, and me trying something new at some point." (Acaster, [28:56])

• The Impact of a Near-Death Experience ([22:48]–[26:48])

  • Acaster shares that a serious car accident at age 19 shattered any subconscious sense of immortality:
    • "I had six months of not being myself at all...the tragedy was that it’s all going to go, rather than the incredible thing was it’s here in the first place."
    • Led to pursuing standup from a bucket list: "That gig that I did, that first gig...would have been one of the biggest deals of my life." ([32:15])

Clean vs. Dirty Comedy & Breaking Preconceptions ([14:26]–[18:12])

• Comics often get labeled based on perceived "cleanliness," but Acaster notes the dichotomy is often misunderstood:

  • "The polarity of clean versus dirty...should be thoughtful versus thoughtless." (Birbiglia, [15:19])
  • Acaster: "People just have this predisposed idea that if you swear on stage...you're lazy. Which I don't think is true." ([16:28])

• Both agree that experimenting with material, even outside your supposed "lane," is critical. Josie Long is cited as a major influence for breaking her own boundaries and demonstrating that "there are no rules."

Early Influences & Embracing Authenticity ([18:27]–[19:44])

• Acaster tried to mimic outgoing, friendly comics at first but found that audiences responded more when he was honest about his feelings—even negativity—onstage.
  • "They were like, we don’t think you do think this is great. And then I'd have a better one when...I'd admit how much I'm hating this. And then suddenly they're laughing."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On British Heckling Culture

  • "If you did that [just call hecklers rude] in the UK, the whole room would turn on you, because you're not good enough." – Acaster ([11:58])

• On Originality

  • "Rejecting all the rules before I’ve learned them in order to be original, and then actually conceding, what I need to do is learn how to do these things and put myself in the shoes of the audience." – Acaster ([05:19])

• On Pressure to Repeat Themes

  • "Once they see this new one, if I do it well, that should be what they want." – Acaster ([08:04])

• On "Clean" Comedy

  • "The polarity should be thoughtful vs. thoughtless." – Birbiglia ([15:19])

• On Perspective from Mortality

  • "Rather than…'it’s so sad, it’s all going to get taken away,' it’s more that, why should it even be here? ...This is a miracle." – Acaster ([26:27])

• On Pre-show Rituals

  • "Sit down and just breathe and then notice five things in the room… How’s your body feeling?... Visualize the gig not going how I want it to, and then like visualizing how I would respond to that." – Acaster ([27:40]–[28:56])

• Comic Cake: The Peril of Universal Observations

  • Acaster shares his "pubes bit"—believed everyone lied about having pubes at school, but no one relates in clubs outside his school: "Every single time I start a new show, pubes was in there…Nothing!" ([43:06]–[44:44])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:16 — British heckling vs. American; Paul McCartney story
• 04:26–05:43 — Pursuit of uniqueness and hiding punchlines
• 07:02–08:14 — Navigating audience expectations after talking about depression
• 12:00–14:13 — Heckler incident with audience walkout
• 14:26–18:12 — Clean vs. dirty comedy, Josie Long’s influence
• 18:27–19:44 — Early attempts at adopting the persona of other comics
• 22:48–26:48 — Car crash, mortality, and perspective shift leading to comedy
• 27:38–30:08 — Acaster’s extensive pre-show ritual
• 35:54–37:13 — Envy, creative jealousy (Cameron Winter, Paul Thomas Anderson)
• 42:20–44:44 — Half-baked material: Acaster's “pubes” school observation
• 47:21–48:17 — School nostalgia and performer’s drive
• 51:02–51:48 — Working it Out for a Cause: Friends of the Earth charity

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Additional Highlights

• Podcast as Testing Ground ([49:38]–[50:42])

  • Birbiglia notes: Sharing works-in-progress with the audience seldom "burns" the material, and hardcore podcast fans enjoy seeing bits evolve onstage.
  • "The people who listen to this podcast is a cult group of people… for 90% of the audience, [the bit is] all new." (Birbiglia, [50:17])

• Dream Meal ([39:52]–[42:10])

  • Acaster’s favorite meal: beef Wellington in Amsterdam—even Robert De Niro agreed to "have that" on the Off Menu podcast.

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Working It Out for a Cause

• Charity Chosen: Friends of the Earth (foe.org)
  • Acaster: “It’s a regular way of being able to actually engage with a problem that is obviously very overwhelming, ominous and massive.” ([51:24])

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Tone and Style

The discussion is candid, self-deprecating, and full of laughter, with both hosts embracing vulnerability and the creative struggle as constants in the comedic life. They balance humor and insight, making the episode both entertaining and inspiring, especially for aspiring comedians and artists.

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Conclusion

This episode is a deep dive into the realities of comedy, the never-ending learning curve of creativity, and the value of honest vulnerability—punctuated by tales of heckling, failed jokes, and moments of wonder. Whether recounting infamous walkouts, workshopping stubborn failed premises (“so many pubes!”), or reflecting on the marvels of existence, Birbiglia and Acaster offer reassurance that even the best are always "working it out."

Transcript

[A]

Is it more common in Britain than here? Because I feel like heckling is not that common here.

[B]

It's much more common in Britain. Yeah. I saw Paul McCartney do a Q A and get heckled by someone who wasn't satisfied with his answers.

[A]

What did the person say?

[B]

They said, try and answer all the questions properly, Paul.

[A]

Oh, come on. That's outrageous.

[B]

Paul McCartney in 2022.

[A]

That is outrageous.

[B]

Doing a Q A in a 2000 seater. Wow.

[A]

Foreign. That is the voice of the great James Acaster. At last we have James Acaster. We've been doing this podcast for five and a half years. People have been saying since episode three that James Acaster should be here. He is a extraordinarily prolific and funny and smart March standup comic from the uk. He has a new special on HBO called Heckler's welcome. It is exactly what it sounds like. He opens it up to the crowd for people to heckle him. It's very unique, especially plays drums interstitially and fascinating guy. Never met him before. People talked about this guy to me for years. We've never crossed paths. I think you're going to love this episode.

[B]

By the way.

[A]

Thanks to everyone who has signed up for Working It Out Premium on Apple Podcasts, the people we called the Birbilia Familia. Listening to the premium episodes. Here's what you get when you sign up for Premium. You get all the episodes without ads. That's a big thing people have requested. You get every episode without ads and then you get these bonus episodes. We did a new bonus episode last week where Connor Ratliff and I punched up your jokes that you sent us to workingitout podmail.com also, I just recorded another bonus episode that's a little bit different, something we haven't done before that we're dropping very soon, where I include material that is unreleased, just like a clip from a show that I've done recently at a club in New York. I'm doing all new material and then talking out with my producers, like where it could go, what it could be, and we talk about thematic ideas and directions that I could go in. So it's very in keeping with the spirit of this original podcast, which is sharing the work in progress with you, the listeners, and the premium listeners get even more access to that. We thank you for that. I just added a few more dates where I'm supporting John Mulaney along with Fred Armisen in May in Colorado Springs, Eugene, Oregon as well as Bend, Oregon. Also, I will be in Los Angeles at The Netflix is a Joke Festival May 6th at the Wilshire Ebel Theater. I'll be performing probably 30 or 40 minutes of new material and hosting a night with Comedy Friends. I feel like you won't want to miss that. I think it's going to be some exciting Comedy Friends. All of these Tickets are at birbigs.com b I r b I g s.com and by the way, thanks to everyone who signed up for the text message alerts. If you want to join that mailing list, text BURBIGS to 917-444-7150 to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Man, do I love this conversation with James Acaster today. Fascinating person. He started doing standup after he survived a really bad car wreck. And then he wrote out a bucket list. And guess what was on the list? Standup comedy. Now he is a massively popular, wildly talented and original comic. We talk about his journey today. We talk about some wild experiences he had with hecklers, which inspired his new special, Heckler's Welcome. I was lucky enough to catch him when he was in town at the Beacon Theater in New York City for a couple nights, enjoying my conversation with the great James Acaster. Your fandom is really specific. I think, like, the fans of you are like, james is our guy. We like no one else. You ever noticed that? Well, you. You don't really look at your stuff online, but, like, that's what a lot of people say. They're like, our number one is no other entries, but I think it's a testament to how specific you are, I guess. When I watch your specials, I'm like, nothing is like this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is that on purpose?

[B]

I think maybe not so much now, but when I was starting out, I was obsessed with that sort of stuff. Can't be like anyone else. Yeah, you know, like. And like, I guess in quite an unrealistic way. You know, when I was in bands before that and I was playing drums in local bands, me and my friend Graham, who I was in all the bands with, were like, we have to be the most original band and not sound like anyone. Do a sound that no one has ever heard before. And obviously, you know, the more you do it, the more you're like, I don't know if that's possible. And then like, with stand up kind of. Yeah. Also that thing of, like, to my own detriment to begin with, to the point where, like, I was hiding punch lines. Cause I was. I didn't want the audience to see the Punchline. Come in. I wanted this to be so original, right. So, like, I remember, like, in how I was writing it, just everything was so hidden so that I could, like, surprise them in different ways that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That you're not supposed. You know, like, rejecting all the rules before I've learned them in order to be original and then actually conceding. What I need to do is learn how to do these things and put myself in the shoes of the audience a little bit more and not be so concerned about I have to do what. What no one else has done, and I can't ever be compared to anyone and all that. I think that definitely, to begin with, hurt me a bit.

[A]

You know, I think, like, the other thing that people. Why people bring your name up to me is that, like, I talked about jumping through a window. You talked about depression in, like, your special. Which has the best comedy special name that I've ever heard, which is called lasagna Hate Myself, 1999.

[B]

But he plays with that. That is a.

[A]

That is. Come on.

[B]

Yeah, I was very pleased. That's a great title. I was so pleased the day I decided to do that. So one of those ones where you do it, you're talking to other comedians and you're dropping stuff in casually, but really looking for praise, and you're like, yeah, I sent my new show title, you know, away today. It's stupid, man. It's so stupid. It just sounds ridiculous. It's called Coldest and You Hate Myself, 1999. Looking at them, waiting for them to tell you that. That's brilliant. I think I was. He had stuff with Bolivian.

[A]

That's a great one.

[B]

But.

[A]

But I think that that's also why people, like. I think you and I have the thing in common, which is, like, that's a lot about depression and being suicidal or maybe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Somewhat suicidal.

[B]

Having the suicidal thoughts. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Suicidal thoughts. And do you feel like having done that, do you feel like your shows after that, you felt a pressure to just, like, open up to everybody?

[B]

Yeah. So, like. Because that's interesting, isn't it? Because I kind of. I love music. You love music. And, like, I look at bands and go like. Well, they don't, you know, go in a certain direction, and then they're married to that forever. They can. Some of my favorite bands will just.

[A]

Except the Rolling Stones. Sure.

[B]

Actually, that completely takes it apart. I know you mean that, but, like. And so, like, I was. I was worried about that. Cause I did that show, and then the next one I did, which. Which was like, about my relationship with the audience kind of like, just naturally became as well, a bit about mental health, because it kind of had to. And I was a bit. Yeah. A bit concerned that, like, oh, do I have to do this forever? I don't want to do that forever. And so, like, with the show I'm touring now, I've consciously not. Not done that, really. I, like, tried to, I think, always just kind of listening to just what you're drawn to and just go in. I'm just gonna run towards that because I don't think. I don't think they really want me. They might think that they want me to carry on doing what the last show was, but they don't. Once they see this new one, if I do it well, that should be what they want.

[A]

I had a thing where at a certain point, so many of my shows had an arc.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That people would be like, this show didn't have an arc. Well, they don't have to have an arc.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That can get in your head when you're writing sometimes and you think like, oh, but the last one had this, and this one doesn't have that. Yeah. But even though I don't necessarily. Sometimes I'll feel like that with other people's. But I remember going to see the Master and being like, you know, just having. There Will Be blood in my head.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

As I sat down to watch it, right? And then the final scene, I was like, here we go. This is going to be the. The last film is my favorite final scene in any film ever. So this is going to be something. Let's see what they do. And then they sit down and they have a conversation and they leave.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I remember going home and saying to my partner, like, what the. What is that ending? I like the whole film. And that ending sucked.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And she was like, that's not. He's not trying to make There Would Be Blood again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And the next time I watched it, I was like, I don't know what was wrong with me, but, like, it was just that I wanted it to be what it was. But of course, I've already got There Will Be Blood. I don't need it again.

[A]

I have that sometimes where, like, I'm writing my next movie right now, and sometimes. Sometimes I'll see a movie that's so good that I'll just. I'll go. I'll be in despair. I'll be like, oh, no, it's not that. And sometimes my friends will shake me out of it and be like, right, it's not that. Yeah, yeah, of course it's not. It's your movie. That's their movie. This is your movie.

[B]

Yeah. How many do you find? I find with each show cycle, I'm learning the same lessons over again. And it's annoying to like. To not go, like, you've learned this every time, that you just should commit to your own voice. And it doesn't matter what other people are doing.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Or anything, but, like, you just forget it and have to learn it again. Even stuff like delivery and stuff and going like, no, no, you got to deliver this faster. You've gone back into doing it too slow again. And, like, in the last tour, you, like, learned that you have to up the energy when the rooms get bigger or whatever the thing is. Yeah. And it is weird how there's those things where a podcast, like, this is really encouraging for creative people. Cause there are these, like, you know, rules that people can, like, identify and latch onto, but you're constantly relearning those rules.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

They don't just all stay with you and you've got them with you forever and go, okay, new show. Here's everything that I learned before. And I'm just gonna start from this place.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like if there's. I hope, if there's one takeaway from people listening to this podcast is that all of us are, as artists are just failing all the time. No. But I do hope that that is the takeaway of this podcast sometimes is like, oh, yeah, these people who maybe I like their work or maybe I don't like, they're also insecure about what they're doing all the time. Yeah. Do you have it? You play drums, like, really well.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

Like, really well. Like, and you have them as interstitials in the heckling special, which is on HBO now in sky there in Britain, but in here, it's on hbo. It's so good. But where. How'd you come up with that idea to cut up your special drums?

[B]

Sometimes it's like. So I think I was doing the show and it was like, you know, the whole idea of the show originally was that, like, anything goes. The audience can do whatever they want. So I thought, here we go. It's going to be chaos. And then it wasn't. So I'd written all this material, and I wanted to write a show that they could then ruin if they wanted to. And that was the idea, was that I did have a show. I'm not going on with nothing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And then they can heckle me and we'll see where it goes.

[A]

So you didn't come in with that?

[B]

No, I kind of. I remember the first one I did. I was like, I'm basically workshopping material, but you guys can ruin this whenever you like.

[A]

Is it more common in Britain than here? Because I feel like heckling is not that common here.

[B]

It's much more common in Britain, yeah. Definitely seen as being more rude here. And I've seen, like, comics deal with hecklers by just not trying to be funny at all and just telling them you're rude and you're spoiling this for everyone. And then everyone applauding the comedian. If you did that in the uk, the whole room would turn on you, you know, because you're not good enough. Yeah, I had it on a tour, my own tour with my own name on the ticket. I think I mentioned it in one of my shows, but, like. And there were two people in the front row who, for the whole of the first half, kept on shouting out. And they were pretty hammered. And in the interval, they were told by the staff, look, you know, in the second half, you guys have to stop doing this. Everyone else has paid to be here, and you just have to stop. And if you do it again, we are going to escort you out of the venue. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And I went on and they heckled me as soon as I went on. And I said, like, now, guys, you've. You've been warned that you're gonna get kicked out if you do it once more. That was once more. But I'll just let that one be a freebie and just don't do it again just for the sake of everyone in the room. No one backs me up on it. I carry on going, they do it again. Like, two minutes later. I go, okay, think. You know what has to happen. You do have to leave now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they were like, completely. Like, they were hearing that for the first time, right? Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. And I was like, you. You just have to leave. And security came to get them. And then a lady who wasn't even sitting with them when. Are you. Are you joking? You're gonna kick them out. They've paid for a ticket. And I was like, well, you've all paid for tickets. And they're ruining the show. And she went, if they're leaving, we're leaving. And the whole front two rows left.

[A]

No.

[B]

So it was like, I don't know, it Was a smallish venue. It's probably about 25, 30 people got up and they walked out. And one of them was a little old lady. She was probably in her 70s, was yelling at me, if you can't handle heckles, you never should have got on that stage. Wow. And they all walked out. And after the show, I was still on social media at that point, and maybe this is one of the reasons I've come off of it, but I remember firing up my Twitter mentions, and they'd all those front two rows gone to a bar together and took a photograph, all of them flipping me off, and tweeted it at me. So there was no.

[A]

That is so rough.

[B]

Yeah. It was like, oh, that's my own name on the ticket.

[A]

Do you feel like your Persona or what people's expectations of you are, from your fan base, limit what you can talk about?

[B]

No.

[A]

Like, there's anything where you're like, ah, they're gonna be a little bit pushed by that.

[B]

No. You know, like, it's. It's always, like, how you talk about it. I think that, you know, in this new show that I'm doing, there's a few bits where, like, I've never talked about this before, and some of my audience would definitely maybe say, like, oh, yeah, I like to see him because he doesn't do dirty material.

[A]

You know, sure, I've gotten that before too.

[B]

And then. But then actually they don't. They'd be surprised that if you frame it well and you do it from a different angle, they actually do, like, hearing that. I can't believe it is funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's, like, part of the fun challenge of going, like, how do I. Like, I've thought of this joke and, like, you know, I could go up to another comic and go, hey, this would suit you. But actually, I could work this into mine. Right.

[A]

The polarity of clean versus dirty, I feel like, often is the wrong one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's almost like the polarity should be, like, thoughtful versus thoughtless.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

You know, it's like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like, if it's thoughtful, it can be as dirty as you want it to be. If it's thoughtless, it's like, well, maybe, like, work harder on that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. And, like. And, like, because you're trying to, like, just think about your. Your comedy voice and got who you are and your Persona or has been coming from that, write it in a way that suits all of that, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, sometimes that, you know, I had Started that, called the Zanya Special, by coming out and just swearing as much as I could and saying, like, I swear now. And I'm a. Even though I. You know, I use that kind of language in previous shows, but people just never really clocked it and said, you know, he's a clean comedian. That's not true. But also, I don't want people coming to see me who. Their only criteria is, I like clean comedy. Right. A genre or a sense of humor. That's just like. I don't know what that is, really. People just have this predisposed, like, idea of if you swear on stage, use bad language on stage, then you're lazy. Which I don't think is true.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I wanted to go out of the front and be like, anybody was here because of that.

[A]

Right. No, totally.

[B]

Never come and see me again. But also knowing that that's a funny attitude to have. So not taking that attitude too seriously and making fun of the fact I'm trying to share to those people.

[A]

I had that happen when I toured my. Thank God for jokes in, like, 2015 or something like that. And I curse. But I'm. What's funny is I'm cursing, to quote someone else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm. I'm cursing to quote David O. Russell and whatever. The Muppets and what I cursed by accent with performing with the Muppets and a lot of people. My agent came to me at one point, was like, the word is getting around that you're. That you're not clean anymore. And I didn't even know what he was talking about. Yeah. I was like, this is not even different than what I was doing before.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that's exciting more than anything. I always talk about Josie Long all the time.

[A]

I love Josie Long.

[B]

Yeah. She's, like, easily the comic has inspired me the most. And I remember seeing her do her show. I can't remember when it was. It was like, pre pandemic, and she just suddenly did a sex routine. She'd never done a routine about having sex before. And she kind of tiptoed into it going, like, I don't usually speak about this sort of stuff, and I still feel uncomfortable talking about it on stage, but I think this is funny. So I'm just gonna kind of do it. And it wasn't just a routine about having sex. It was a routine about having sex while on her period. And, like, quite a graphic, like. So it's so funny to go see someone going from never talking about sex.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To doing, like, a really graphic sex story. That was really funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as a comic just made me go, oh, there's absolutely no rules. This is so exciting to see Josie do this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And go into this area that we weren't expecting at the start of the show.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

And. And she's treating us like adults, like her audience aren't a bunch of prudes. And so it was. I remember seeing stuff like that and going, oh, we can do whatever we want, one show to the next.

[A]

What were you thinking? You were at the beginning of your career.

[B]

I think I started out at the very, very beginning, before it was a career. I was like, I loved Josie and Ross Noble and Daniel Kitson and a lot of the comics who were kind of going out and just, like, seemingly just being themselves with the audience and were all very likable. And I was trying to kind of go out and be super friendly. Like, Ross Noble goes out and he's just like, oh, look at you guys.

[A]

This is great.

[B]

And all this. So I was really trying to do that. And it wasn't scanning at all. They were kind of sitting there and very forced. Cause they were like, we don't think. You do think this is great and amazing. Like, we think this is a really shitty bar with seven people in. I don't think you really. And then I'd have a better one when I suddenly went. You know, I'd be trying that at the top and then I'd naturally just come apart and I'd admit how much I'm hating this. And then suddenly they're laughing. Yeah. Which is a lesson that, like, it was good in those situations and I had to unlearn it later on when, you know you're being paid more and the audience are there to see you. And you can't just, like, stop and say, I hate this. This sucks. Right.

[A]

Like, you were arriving at the reality of what you were in.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So there's. I guess that was the thing of, like, definitely trying to be those comics that I liked and then discovering pretty soon that actually how you genuinely feel is funnier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And try and, like, steer more towards.

[A]

Working it out is supported by Rula. Let's talk about therapy for a second. We talk about therapy all the time on this show. I've been in therapy for a long time. Some people in the comment section of my YouTube say too long. But I've been for 25 years. I've been in therapy. I know firsthand. Sometimes navigating mental health care can be challenging. Here's the thing about Rula, Rula helps to make that part easier. Rula works with major insurance plans. Sessions can cost as little as $15 and in some case, $0, depending on what your benefits are. Rula isn't just a directory. They help book appointments. They stay on top of your schedule and keep track of progress so you actually can get somewhere with therapy. Every therapist on rules platform is licensed, vetted and chosen for their expertise. You're not rolling the dice. You're talking to legit professionals who know how to get results. Thousands of people have already used Rula to finally get the care they needed. Go to rula.com/Bigs and get started today. That's R U L A.com/Bigs. Take the first step. Get connected. Take control of your mental health. Working it out is supported by Helix. Hey look, it's wintertime. Why not be as cozy as possible? Helix has you covered, literally. Comfy sheet sets and duvets, not to mention their iconic mattresses. Helix makes award winning sleep products. That's right. Forget the Oscars. Helix is the most awarded sleep mattress brand. You can also rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience. Designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Helix offers a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. 120 nights. I've been a Helix customer myself for many years, since the beginning of this podcast almost six years ago. If I could bring my Helix mattress with me on tour, I would go to helixsleep.com prabigs and you will get this is a really good deal. 27% off site wide exclusive for listeners of Mike Birbiglia is working it out. That's helixsleep.com birb I G S for 27% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com brewbigs. There's an interview in the New Yorker where you said, basically I crashed my car when I was 18. And after that I got a bit obsessed with dying. So I started doing a bunch of things to take off my bucket list. What, what was your relationship to the idea of death? Before the crash?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And after the crash. And then what is it now?

[B]

I think like growing up, so growing up being raised Christian and I was like, I think that means you think about death a lot.

[A]

Yeah, same.

[B]

But you're not really. But then also you kind of weirdly don't believe in it as A kid. So I'm. Okay, I'm thinking about it all the time, but it's not the end.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I am thinking about dying a lot and what happens when you die.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I'm talking about that and asking a lot of questions to my parents and the people at church of like, okay, so where do these people go and where do we. And like, how do. Where's everybody going? Yeah. What if I do this and then I suddenly get killed and I haven't apologized yet and all this. And like, so I'm thinking about it a lot. And then I remember. I still remember, like, I was 13, and for some reason I was listening to. My dad had this like, cassette and CD player in one, and I was listening to a cassette and I think it was REM's out of time album. And there was a song on there, I think called. It was maybe Low or something that was very bleak and depressing sounding. And I was just, like, looking at the tape going round and I think I just realized, like, I had my first fleeting thought of all this year's gone quickly.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then I was like, this has gone really quick. I'm 13, so this whole everything else could just go quick. And then I could just like. And then kind of being like, oh, and I might not. I remember I assumed until that age I would live to 100, that that was how old you lived.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So everyone lives to 100.

[A]

Like, everybody. Like, everybody lives to 100. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

This is. That's. Everyone lives to 100.

[A]

We all get to about 100.

[B]

That's your life. And then I was like. And it dawned on me that the years are going quickly. And also I could die when I'm 70.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm 13 now and it's already going quick and this tape's going round. And I first, for the first time, felt scared of dying. And for the first time thought, like, maybe I don't believe in that. There's something else. But, like, putting it out of my head. And then when I had those, I had that car crash. And like, during that car crash, you know, there's just a point where I was just hot on two wheels like this.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And it was a very small car. And I knew that, you know, if it goes that way, I'm not going fast enough to roll. So it is just going to go like that. And then it went back on its four wheels. But then, you know, it kind of took about a day. And then I remember sitting on the Toilet. And going like, I could just not exist now.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then realizing that that's what I believed, that I didn't believe in anything else, and I didn't.

[A]

That was when you were about 19 years old. Yeah.

[B]

So I had to be like, oh, you believe in nothing after you die.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. And then I had six months of not being myself at all. And, like, walking around in a bit of a daze. And no matter what I was doing, it was making me think of. The universe is infinite. You don't understand it. You're gonna die. And that will just. What will that be like? I'll be nothingness. And just everything felt too much and too big. And I was talking to a lot of different people. And then, like, you know, eventually got to, like, a good place with it by kind of refusing to look away from it and. And discussing it all the time and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And whatever. And. And, yeah. Now I think it's more that thing of anytime I do think, you know, and I do try and think about the fact that we're not gonna be here forever sometimes before going on stage. And I'm feeling like this is overwhelming and scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A kind of good thing to remember. And it sounds dramatic, but it's like, this isn't gonna be. Like, everything around me will be gone one day.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It'll all be gone. None of this will exist. So this is a miracle. This is amazing that you're gonna get to do this in this moment. And it's not this thing of, like, it's so sad. It's all gonna get taken away. It's more that, why should it even be here? Why should stand up? Why should this theater be a thing. You know, and laughter and we can. And. And all of this. And you get to experience this and do it and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So rather than kind of going. Because definitely for a while, I was like, the tragedy was that it's all going to go, rather than the incredible thing was it's here in the first place. You know? But, like, that's how I feel when

[A]

I go to, like, a Knicks game. Like, I'm not, like, a huge basketball fan, but I'm like, what a marvel. Yeah, sure. Can you even believe this?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

How good these people are at this game?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What the hell's going on here?

[B]

We all get to be here. Watch it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, this food. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. It is those kind of moments.

[A]

It is worthwhile to remind yourself of the marvel of everything sometimes. Yeah.

[B]

And it's like it sounds dramatic, but it just like, it does put everything in perspective. And yeah, just like go, okay, this isn't such a big deal. You don't need to worry too much about this. You know, that just makes.

[A]

Do you have a pre show ritual?

[B]

Yeah, a lot now. Because I used to. Not at all. And it really, it was my downfall at a lot of gigs and it's why I'd throw a lot of gigs. I was going on completely unprepared. So now it's quite extensive now. And yesterday I was very, very, very nervous before going on my show. Really wanted to just get on a plane and go home and not be here. And as in not be in New York, not, not be alive. And. And I. So I had to do like everything that I would do before again. So I had to sit down and like just breathe and then notice five things in the room that I can see, hear, smell, feel all that. How's your body feeling? Checking with your body. How are you really feeling with your body? How, how's that going to affect your show? Does that mean you've got to be ultra vigilant for this show about not throwing it away? Because like, you know, you're feeling quite negative already and you're feeling all this. So like that's going to affect it. So here's what you've gotta bear in mind. When you walk out there and then visualizing the gig, not go in how I want it to, and, and then like visualizing how I would like to respond to that. So if it's, if it's really quiet, how do I want to perform?

[A]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[B]

And do that. And if they're shouting out how do I want to perform? And if they're on their phones, you know, so kind of going, what do you want to do in that situation? So this is what you're going to do. And also remembering the things that I talked to my therapist about like, what makes a good gig for me and like, what factors. And I was like, so good audience, good venue, me performing well, me being disciplined on stage, and me trying something new at some point. And, and we were like, okay, you can't control the audience, you can't control the venue. So those two things you just kind of accept before you go out. And then you just remember like, okay, what's the one new thing I'd like to try? Even if it's just editing a bit, even if it's saying less words in the section, let's do that. And, and then for the rest of it, you're just going just focus on performing it the way you want to perform it and being disciplined enough to not go off script in a negative way. Definitely in a positive way. Great. But like, but like, let's be, let's not, you know, collapse it.

[A]

I'm gonna cut this into a clip for social media and I am going to play it for myself before my own shows.

[B]

Great.

[A]

I mean, this is. That's the best pre show ritual I've ever heard of.

[B]

It's, I mean, also the one other thing I do before I did my first ever gig. So I'd done a. I'd done a workshop in my hometown that I've been signed up to, like, by someone who knew I wanted to do stand up. So they signed me up to it and just told me, you're signed up to do a stand up comedy workshop. And I turned up and it was a guy who, I think upon reflection, had done maximum 10 gigs as a comedian, as on the open mic, hilarious teaching and was now looking to earn some money.

[A]

Cash in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cash in on. How do you do this?

[B]

Yeah, I just, I just basically going, no one in this, this town's done comedy.

[A]

So I can.

[B]

There was three of us who got signed up to it. We all got signed up to it by someone else. And every week we would show up and he would bring a 12 pack of beers for himself and not share them. And we would all get up and he would say, you got to do 10 minutes stand up every week, new every week. And we'd get up, we'd do our 10 minutes to the other three people, including him. And then we'd sit down and he'd either say, that was. Or that was funny. And that was the only feedback you got.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

And this is insane. And the three of us would talk about it more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Together. Like, oh, when you said that. Because we were like excited and hungry. But I remember before we did our first gig and it was all three of us doing our gig and it was like a professional compare and opening act and closing act. And he had put this together and he just told us before we went on, you're setting yourself aside from 99.9 of the population. They wouldn't do this. And he said, what I did before I go on is I just like stretch like that and make myself just feel nice and big and confident. And I remember doing it, and I still do that now because not because it makes me feel confident. And I think of him and I think about the 99.9% of the population. And the reason why that makes me feel good, I think is just the, again, the perspective rather than the actual I'm confident and I'm better than. It's more. Remember that gig you did in that very first gig you did in that little bar and that guy who definitely wasn't a comedian. Teacher you stand up, taught you stand up, you know, Remember that?

[A]

Remember that?

[B]

You know, and there's no way you should be here now, you know, so it kind of gives you that thing of like going, yeah, I was gonna do that. And that gig that I did, that first gig, I'm sure it's the same for all comics. If I had never done it again, that would have been one of the biggest deals of my life. Yeah. That I got up and did stand up comedy in a little bar in my hometown. It would have been huge. And so like remembering like how much of a big deal that was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then looking at this show and like I'm stressing about all this career stuff or whatever or sometimes, you know, it's a mental health thing. But like you're going, it's still, look at, you know that. And now this. Yeah. And it does make you feel like you, you get, you gain that perspective a bit more rather than going, someone's gonna feel like, oh, this is gonna suck or what's the point of this gig? Or whatever. And actually you go, you're forgetting like where this sits in the grand scheme of things. And for you personally,

[A]

Support for working it out comes from Article. Article offers a curated range of mid century modern, coastal and Scandinavian inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other Article product. I love this Article furniture. They have a thoughtful design approach that makes it incredibly easy to mix and match, helping you create a space that feels cohesive as well as stylish. I feel like if you went on the Article website, you could spend hours there. I was on the site and I got this saltwater blue ottoman. It's in my living room. It's gorgeous. With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. The peace of mind ensures that you can invest in your home without hesitation. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim that, visit article.comwio for working it out and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com wio for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Support for Working it Out comes from a Warby Parker. Believe it or not, everyone on the Working it out staff wears Warby Parker glasses. We didn't plan it that way. That's just how it went down. I recently got reading glasses and glasses, by the way, are expensive. I've shopped around. The prices on prescription glasses and sunglasses are exorbitant. But at Warby Parker, prescription glasses start at just $95. Am I reading this correctly? $95. That's for the frame and the lenses. I know you're probably thinking, what's the catch? Are $95 glasses any good? Yes, they look amazing. And how often is the least expensive option still high quality? It hardly ever happens. Our listeners get 15% off plus free shipping when they buy two or more pairs of prescription lenses at warbyparker.com Burbigs Ooh, my own URL. That's 15% off when you buy two pairs of glasses at w a r b y parker.com Birb I G S After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Tell them we sent you. Who are you jealous of?

[B]

Who am I jealous of? Oh, do you know what? I was saying it in the car on the way here talking to my partner. I literally said it out loud. I never say this about anyone. I went, I'm really jealous of Cameron Winter. As I was talking to her on

[A]

my phone, who isn't.

[B]

So, like, I was like, yeah, Paul Thomas Anderson, like filming him live now.

[A]

I know this. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So like, yeah. But I was like, her response, she's like, oh, are you. And I had to be like, nice, like his career, not his. Like, I want my life with you.

[A]

I want my life with you.

[B]

I don't want.

[A]

I don't want Cameron Winters girlfriend.

[B]

I don't know what's going on there. Personally, I definitely don't want to be in a band. Right. But I was jealous of his solo career.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I'm like, oh, that looks. But then I said to her, but then there's that thing as well where you idealize it. Cause I was like, yeah, but you know, it gets to do this music is like just touching so many people's lives now in ways that they can't even put into words. And, you know, he's not walking on stage and getting people shouting, do the Ketman Town FC song at him. And she said, james, when we went to see him, someone literally heckled Turn around to him.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

And I was like, oh, yeah. I forgot that when we saw him, and he's back to the audience playing the piano, and he was backlit. And it was this. You know, he's performing it and everyone was like, on tenterhooks. So he's like, turn around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he kind of, like, tried to brush it off, and then they heckled him again. I, like. I was like, oh, yeah. I'm kind of.

[A]

You witnessed it.

[B]

I was there.

[A]

And yet. Yeah. You blocked out that idea, that part, for the idealized version of his life completely.

[B]

I saw Paul McCartney do a Q and A and get heckled by someone. He wasn't satisfied with his answers.

[A]

What did the person say?

[B]

They said, try and answer all the questions properly, Paul.

[A]

Oh, come on. It's Paul McCartney. Outrageous.

[B]

Paul McCartney in 2022.

[A]

That is outrageous.

[B]

Doing a Q and a in a 2,000 seater. Wow.

[A]

And someone answered, that's a very British heckle.

[B]

Yeah. And I was.

[A]

Answer the questions properly, Paul. Yeah.

[B]

Too short an answer.

[A]

What is a time you remember feeling pure joy?

[B]

I mean, definitely. I remember going to. There's a theme park in England called Alton Towers, which my parents took us to as a surprise when we were kids. And all day, it was just. I loved it so much. We're going on these roller coasters. It's like the theme of it is just nothing. Alton Towers, they don't really lean into the theme. And it's quite bleak when you go as an adult, but as a kid, all these roller coasters were about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember buzzing so much of. And I remember being in a queue for a ride we'd already been on, me and my dad. And I looked up at him and I was like, dad, this has been the best day of my life.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And he went, you're nine.

[A]

What's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you used?

[B]

I mean, again, I feel like Josie Long did tell me in the early days to just experiment as much as you can before people know who you are and they can't judge you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I definitely, as an open spot, was like, okay, one gig to the next. I just do whatever I'm feeling on the way there. And I feel like she would say this now as well. It's like, that actually doesn't need to stop when people don't know you. And now I think she would say, well, I know I was talking to her the other day about her new special that she's filming. She's Absolutely still experimenting and doing stuff that people wouldn't expect of her.

[A]

So that's great. So you have a podcast called Off Menu, and you talk about sort of dream meals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you say what yours is? Because I feel you must have covered it before, but I haven't heard one where you talked about it.

[B]

Yeah, so I've done quite a few on there. Every time it's like a hundred episodes. We, like, do our own and stuff. My dream main course is always this beef Wellington I had in Amsterdam, and I just keep on choosing that every time, even though I should vary it up. But genuinely, it's not been beat yet. And it is pretty amazing. Although the really annoying thing is we had Robert De Niro on the podcast.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, we did. And that's.

[A]

How on earth would you book Robert De Niro?

[B]

It's bonkers. So basically, I mean, you'll know, like, you kind of get solicitations, like, here's all the people we've got. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you never get the huge ones, but whatever, right? And it just kept on being that his name wasn't going away from this list as it got smaller. And we were like, well, clearly that's not gonna come through. And then on the day we were, like, in this hotel, ready to interview him, going, like, surely he's not gonna show up. This is ridiculous. And then the PR team came in and they were like, we love Off Menu. And like, ah, this is why. This is why. Cause there's two young guys who are, like, you know, in their 20s who listen to the podcast and they've just told him. And when we interviewed him, it became clear that he kind of does live his life with. He turns to the people around him and say, what would you recommend?

[A]

Right?

[B]

And then he does it. So, like, all his food choices, he couldn't choose his dream meal because he just went, I just have whatever's good. And we were like, never imagine. You can just have whatever starter you want. He went, oh, I just have one of those. Because he. That's how he lives his life. And it is actually quite insightful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That his life is going into restaurants, sitting down, and he says, bring me the best thing. And they. And they do that. So, like. Yeah. So, like, that was what that was like. But when he was on, he didn't want to choose the main course. And he was like, whatever's good. And we said, how about this beef Wellington I had in Amsterdam? He said, yeah, if it's good. I'll have that. It is good. It's good. He's like, yeah. And Ed kind of went, maybe we can switch the beef for like, wagyu beef for you, so it's even nicer. And he went, yeah, that sounds good to me. And then Ed goes on a European tour doing his stand up, and he books himself in at this restaurant that does the beef Wellington. And because they've heard that episode, they make Ed a wagyu Wellington.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Which is even better than the one that I had.

[A]

Impressive. Wow. Do you have any material you're working on that's like half baked? Or sometimes we work out material in the show or we just talk through it.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So at the minute. Cause the point where I am with my show at the minute, nothing's really that half baked now. It's almost like tweaked and stuff. There's a bunch of stuff that didn't make it in. But also the one, I'll tell you, the one that I always, every single time I start a new show, there's a bit of material. And I think it's because I don't like, just like ditching stuff that I've got a good feeling about. And I think when I was an open mic. So when I was like, very, very first gigs ever, I was 23, and I had a bit that I was like, this is gonna crush. Everyone's gonna absolutely relate to this. This is great observational material. And I went on and I would just say, and this went badly every time. So I know, I know, I know that you don't feel pressure to laugh, but just so you know, there's no pressure. Laugh.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Never works. So I would go on and be like, hey, do you remember when you were in school and you didn't have pubes yet, but you told everyone that you did and just nothing. And I was like, go. No, I'm pretty sure that's what everyone did at school. And then I tried it so many times as an open mic comedian, I. I just throw it in at so many gigs and they're like, okay. And then like, I. Every single time I had a new show that I was going to take to Edinburgh in the early stages, pubes was in there. Yeah, go on, say that. Nothing now. Because I did speak to someone about it, because I think I mentioned it on my podcast and Ed was like, I didn't do that when I was in school. And I don't remember people doing that at my school.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I was like, Right. So in my school, it was a thing. And this is why I thought it was an observation. It's not just because, like, I did it. Everyone at my school talked about how many pubes they had. So, like, it was a huge thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In my year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People would be like, I've got so many pubes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, just like, ah. Sometimes there's so many pubes and, like, I just don't know what to do with them all. There's so, so many of them. And, like, I remember it being a huge thing where people would brag and people would go, how many pubes, you guys? Oh, so many pubes. And, like, it was a thing in my school.

[A]

I think I'm with Ed. I don't think it was a thing when I was growing up.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I also like when you say it as a joke.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

I believe you and I enjoy it. I'm like, that's fun.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I think the thing is more, you know, just thinking about it in more recent years is just to tell them what my school was like and that it is my school.

[A]

No, of course.

[B]

And that this is. I'm kind of saying up top. This is none of your schools that I'm about to talk about.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

None of you grew up with this, but I want you to know this is real in my school.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And we all used to just boast about how many pubes we had in my school year, specifically. I don't think it was even other school years. Yeah. My school year. We were obsessed with who had the most pubes and who was like, you know, the most mature.

[A]

You could also go the other way with it, which is like. Which is like, remember how in middle school and then you start with that and then you go into a bunch of other specific things that there's no way it was true of them. Sure.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Just take it further. Yeah, yeah. And go more and more just outside the realms of, like, reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember one of the girls in my year just being like, so many pubes. It's crazy how many pubes I got. You guys don't even realize. And then a guy, so he would have been 13, just says to her or says to the whole table, actually, I prefer when women are completely shaved down there. He's 13. And I remember all of us being like, what the fuck? Like, all of us, like, we're lying about how many pubes you've got. But you're weird. That's really unsettling that you've got a preference.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At 13 already. He was like one of those kids who's had a computer in his room. Immediately.

[A]

I remember one joke I wrote years ago that I've never, you know, I, I haven't put it on stage, but I'll try it. Which is like, I remember like in, in. I think it was like fourth grade. The, the principal would ring the bell for recess and then she'd let. Let someone in class do it.

[B]

Like.

[A]

And I always was like, I want to ring the bell, but they never let me ring the bell. It was always like this girl, like Maria Bononi. And then like one day it was like eighth grade and like Maria Bononi I found out, like, had had sex or like it was something big. I was like, I. I still haven't rung the bell.

[B]

Yeah, that's great.

[A]

But I, I'll try. I think I will try it because I kind of like it as an idea because it's so true, by the way, of. Is devastating for what people are doing and what people aren't doing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And what you've done and what you haven't done.

[B]

But especially for people who go on to be performers and want to be performers. You want to ring the bell because you're. There would have been people in that class who were like, the last thing I want in my life, the last thing I want is to be the person ringing that bell.

[A]

You're absolutely right.

[B]

And you're like, I want to ring it so much. And Maria Benoni is like absolutely killing me right now.

[A]

She's ringing the bell and I can't leave it. She doesn't even know how lucky she has it.

[B]

Yeah. And now she's your Cameron Winter and she's having this crazy. She's my Cameron Winter and you want. Yeah. But not everyone else in that class. I have like a bit in the Heckler's show where like, it's like, yeah, that's like me crying because I wasn't being chose to go up in front of the class.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And not realizing that's not everyone else's experience. Other people are sitting there going, the last thing I want to do is get picked.

[A]

The last thing I want to do is get picked.

[B]

But you want to ring the bell.

[A]

No, you're right.

[B]

And who knows what Maria Bononi's even doing now.

[A]

And by the way, you pointing out that not everyone's. Everyone wanted to ring the bell is news to me. Yeah.

[B]

Is news.

[A]

Like, I'm not, I didn't even know that.

[B]

And you know what? I bet Maria Benoni. Cause she got that out of her system. Is not doing a career in performing arts or anything. No, No, I don't think so. But you, as the person who didn't get to do it, got a fire in your belly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now here you are writing this material to say on stage.

[A]

I wrote this down. Which is, I was in line at a pharmacy down the street the other day, and there's 10 people in line, and there's a woman behind me on speakerphone. There's 10 of us in line. We're crouching. It's the winter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's on speakerphone and she says, I wrote it down. She goes, karma's a. Yeah, karma's a. Karma's gonna come right back at you. And I thought, I hope that's true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think you might end up next to someone shouting in your ear while waiting for anxiety medication. Yeah. Karma's a. Karma's a.

[B]

Sometimes just hearing those people just say stuff. When I was, like, really early on as a comic, I was on the train and heard. And I tried to turn this into material at the time, but I just didn't know at all where to go with it. Sometimes you overhear it and there's nothing beyond what you overheard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was just these group of women my age, like, early 20s, saying to this guy, we are not lying to you. We saw a hedgehog on a cat's back. I love that. Going down the street.

[A]

I'm not lying to you.

[B]

We are not lying. All saw it.

[A]

I wonder, though, that sounds. I mean, the. The. I would say the tenacity with which that was said makes me believe it somewhat.

[B]

Do you find when you. Because you do this podcast and. Oh, yeah. Try out your new stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's it like when you then go on stage and you do the stuff you were originally talked about in the podcast? Is there any.

[A]

So funny I talked about this recently because we just did the 200th episode with John Mulaney, and it's bet it's better.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I always thought for years, you cannot. You can't burn your material. You shouldn't burn your material by sharing with people early. But actually what happens is it's this cult. The people who listen to this podcast is a cult group of people. It's not everybody. It's not all the people in the audience. It's like 10 of the audience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So for 90% of the audience, it's all new. 10% of the audience who. Who Are listening every episode like, yeah, they know like a version of it. They know an early version, they know middle version, sometimes they know later version. Yeah, but they're kind of like, I get emails all the time. Messages are like, I really like seeing the stages. Yeah, like, like that's part of it. That's how, that's how I feel when I watch comics. I don't know if you have this when you watch other comics. I like the early versions.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I, I love seeing comics develop a show sometimes. Yeah, you do get to this, like see certain comedians at different stages of a show spaced out and it is great to see what stays, what goes and what gets whittled down.

[A]

The final thing we do is working it out for a cause. Is there a non profit that you like to support? And we will contribute to them and then link to them in the show notes.

[B]

Friends of the Earth.

[A]

Friends of the Earth, yep.

[B]

I, I mean just like any environmental charity at the minute is like incredibly important to give to support.

[A]

Friends of the Earth is foe dot org.

[B]

Yeah. The best thing is that you can feel very. It's a lot of like climate anxiety and you can feel very helpless with all of it. And it's nice to like sign up to something like that, get regular emails of like, you can sign this petition, you can do this, you know, donate to this, whatever. And it's quite a regular way of being able to actually engage with a problem that is obviously very overwhelming, ominous and massive.

[A]

Yeah, we will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. James, thanks so much for coming. It's such an honor to have you here.

[B]

Thanks for having me, man. Working it Out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out because there's no.

[A]

That's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow James Acaster. Jamesacaster.com he's not on social media, but he does have a website. All of his tour dates are there. He'll be touring all over the UK this spring and summer. Check out Burbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about upcoming shows. And you can get the text alerts by Texting Burbigs to 917-444-7150. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel, ikebirbiglia. Subscribe because we are posting more and more videos. Don't miss it. Our producers are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia. Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons sound mix by Ben Cruz supervising engineer Kate Polinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. They have a beautiful new song out this week called you'd and Forever. I love that song, man. Beautiful song. Cannot wait for that record. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. There's so many ratings and reviewings. We really appreciate it. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, Tell your enemies, Tell Robert De Niro. I know one of you out there knows Robert De Niro. Hey, Bob. You can call Bob Bob. As long as you're taking recommendations on whatever's good, check out this podcast called Mike Birbigli Is Working It Out. It's where Mike Birbigli works out jokes and talks about the creative process with other comedians and creatives. You can listen to it while eating the beef Wellington that James Acaster recommended. Also, Mike Birbiglia does a cameo in your Meet the Focker sequel, but you probably don't know that you're not really in that scene. Anyway, thanks everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.