Josh Johnson: Reinventing the Modern Comedy Special

Summary

Podcast Summary

Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out

Episode: Josh Johnson: Reinventing the Modern Comedy Special
Date: December 29, 2025
Guests: Mike Birbiglia (Host), Josh Johnson (Guest)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a conversation between comedian and host Mike Birbiglia and standup comedian/writer Josh Johnson. The discussion dives deep into Josh’s unconventional journey in comedy, his prolific output of YouTube specials, breaking into the industry without traditional gatekeepers, and larger insights on artistic persistence, creative self-doubt, and “reinventing” what it means to build a career in comedy.

Birbiglia and Johnson work through new jokes and material together, offering listeners an inside look at how great comedians structure and punch up premises. They also reflect on evolving industry norms, artists’ relationships to audience and industry, self-comparison, and the pursuit of greatness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reinventing the Comedy Special (03:06–10:39)

• Josh Johnson's Direct-to-YouTube Approach

  • Johnson films and self-releases fully produced specials on YouTube, bypassing traditional comedy industry gatekeepers. He credits the Comedy Cellar for letting comedians tape their sets, enabling him to rapidly test, film, and upload new material.
  • "You basically cut out every middleman that there is in show business." (03:35, Birbiglia)

• Writing and Topical Material

  • Johnson’s process is fueled by prolific writing and topical observation, using openers and closers as anchors but constantly swapping new ideas in and out.
  • "I was just taking that tape, and then the only real pressure was...I really had to just, like, get it in one." (05:14, Johnson)
  • His girlfriend gets some relief:
    "Uploading to YouTube gives my girlfriend some relief of me just talking all the time." (06:46, Johnson)

2. Creative Mindset, Self-Doubt, and the Artist’s “Stock” (10:39–16:46)

• Overcoming Self-Critique and the Need to Release Work

  • Johnson encourages creators not to be paralyzed by perfectionism or fear of criticism: "If you made a bad thing, like, I don't know until I know how the show went...I can't stress myself out too much about how it will be received on YouTube because...making the people who came to the show part of an experience...is done." (12:00, Johnson)
  • Putting material out, learning from feedback, and building confidence are emphasized.

• Artist as a Stock/Startup Analogy

  • Johnson likens creative careers to stock trajectories — volatile, subject to public perception, and often abandoned by representatives at the first sign of trouble: "Reps are not...mental health care providers." (16:21, Johnson)

3. The Evolving Pathways of a Comedy Career (17:02–33:09)

• Changing Industry Pathways

  • The “ladder” of comedy success has shifted from late night/TV showcases to digital DIY approaches.
  • "Forget all that...you could...make shorts in your basement and they blow up...video every set...and then you blow up." (29:59, Birbiglia)

• Subjectivity of Success & Timing

  • Johnson recounts wishing for a Comedy Central half-hour the year before he received it, later realizing he simply wasn’t ready. He emphasizes timing and the subjectivity of industry validation.
  • "Everything happens in its time...There are some things I never got. And I'm like, fair enough. Like, the crop that you picked for that were incredible people.” (32:50, Johnson)

• Comparisons, Impostor Syndrome, and Getting Perspective

  • Josh discusses the evolution from idolizing heroes and harsh self-comparison to recognizing all artists as simply people making work (20:43–21:04).

4. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

— Standout Self-Reflection

• “Be as patient as you are persistent.” (39:47, Johnson)
• “Chasing greatness is such a personal aspiration that you, you know on your deathbed that you did it or not. Everything else is kind of like, people have to give it to you.” (37:33, Johnson)

— Humorous Moments

• (On the YouTube algorithm serving Kendrick vs. Drake to Birbiglia):
  "Sometimes the algorithm doesn't know how down someone really is." (22:49, Johnson)

• (On his wife sharing dreams with the building super):
  "There are things that are confined to a relationship that you would never imagine doing outside of it. For most people, it’s sex...For me, it’s secrets." (44:42, Johnson)

• (On running into a better-looking “Josh Johnson”):
  "I gotta kill him. I've never wanted anyone dead the way I want this dude dead. I was seething...It was Shakespearean.” (38:16, Johnson)

5. Working Out Material — The Basement & The Super (42:58–49:33)

• Premise: Birbiglia’s wife calls the super about “animals in the walls,” then admits part of it was a dream—in front of the super.

• Josh tweaks the joke: Focus on revealing intimate, “secret” knowledge to outsiders, making it feel as intense as sharing sexual secrets outside the relationship.

• Tag:
  "This is one of the worst threesomes you can have. Sharing what might have been a dream, but is actually [a secret]." (45:29, Johnson)

• Another Premise: Wife says “let’s go in the basement” (for frozen pipes), but actually means “you go.” This leads to riffs on couples’ coded language and vulnerability.

6. Navigating Opportunity, Jealousy, and Motivation (34:49–37:51)

• Johnson’s aspirations are ego-driven: the “best catalog ever,” admiration as the “best writer,” and fully realized creative collaborations.
• "Anything that I want that someone else has to give me, I’ll be like chasing for the rest of my life.” (36:13, Johnson)

7. Advice from Trevor Noah and Comedy Writers' Rooms (26:16–29:27)

• Maintain energy and fun in delivery, even when making strong points on stage.
• On patience and timing: don’t rush onto camera or onto big opportunities until it feels right.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Birbiglia:
  "You basically cut out every middleman that there is in show business." (03:35)

• Johnson:
  "Uploading to YouTube gives my girlfriend some relief of me just talking all the time." (06:46)

• Johnson:
  "Be as patient as you are persistent." (39:47)

• Johnson:
  "Chasing greatness is such a personal aspiration that you, you know on your deathbed that you did it or not." (37:33)

• Johnson (on industry):
  "Reps are not...mental health care providers." (16:21)

• Johnson (on creative process):
  "I think it's also the. I really believe in everyone's burden. That's a creative to make the thing that's on their mind." (10:39)

• Johnson (on self-doubt):
  "If you can make it to that space...it's almost impossible to be there in your mind and not be making great work, even if that work isn't, like, greatly recognized." (20:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Reinventing self-produced comedy specials: 03:06–10:39
• Advice for creators & perfectionism: 10:39–13:43
• Artist “stock” analogy & representation: 13:43–16:46
• Industry pathways, timing, and subjectivity: 17:02–33:09
• Josh’s aspirations and view on greatness: 34:49–37:51
• Notable “working it out” joke workshopping: 42:58–49:47
• Advice from Trevor Noah and writers’ rooms: 26:16–29:27
• Jealousy story (“better” Josh Johnson): 37:57–39:42
• Best advice received: 39:47–40:33

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Causes & Wrap-Up

• Josh’s chosen charity: Feeding America (54:39)
  • Birbiglia announces that the show will contribute and encourages listeners to support them.

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Episode Tone and Flavor

The conversation is witty, candid, process-oriented and self-deprecating, full of industry anecdotes, collaborative exploration of comedic premises, and big-picture wisdom about the artist's journey. There’s a warm, mutual admiration between the host and guest, making for an accessible and insightful listen for comedy fans and aspiring creatives.

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In Short

This episode is a must for anyone interested in modern comedy, creative process, and the realities behind “overnight success.” It’s rich with practical advice and big laughs, plus an intimate backstage look at how two accomplished comics approach both their careers and the blank page.

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For full episodes, bonus content, and tour details, subscribe to “Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out” or follow on YouTube. Support Feeding America via the link in the show notes.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have this joke about how where you say Covid killed millions of people, but somehow everyone I owed money to lived.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, yeah?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who do you owe money to?

[Josh Johnson]

We've settled the debts now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

We're in a much better place. But at the time of taping, I was like, man.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Happy holidays, everybody. It's Mike Birbiglia and that is the voice of the great Josh Johnson. This is a re air of one of my favorite episodes from this year. It's with Josh Johnson, one of the people who had kind of a seminal career year. I mean, he exploded this year. I mean, he went from being an extremely popular touring comedian to being one of the hosts of the Daily Show. He puts out these regular specials on YouTube, on his YouTube channel. They're seen by millions and millions, sometimes tens of millions of people, and they're fantastic. He's a true, true original. Thanks, everybody. This year who signed up for Working It Out Premium, we're about to drop another bonus episode that was really fun with my wife Jenny. There's more bonus content coming. Thanks, everyone who signed up for the text message alerts. We're announcing some small club shows in Philadelphia, Palm Beach, Madison, Wisconsin, Buffalo, Raleigh, Los Angeles and Nashville. To be the first to know, text Birbigs B I R b I G s to the phone number 917-444-7150 to be the first to know about those shows. I will be appearing in the Broadway show all out January 13 through 18 alongside Beck Bennett, Cecily Strong and Wayne Brady. All out is the follow up to All In. It's a great show. I just saw the opening night with Jon Stewart, Eric Andre, Abby Jacobson, as well as Ike Barinholtz. It was a blast. [e-mail] this is a great conversation with Josh Johnson. This is, you know, we re air the episodes that we feel like people will want to listen to again, that there's a lot of layers to peel back on and just people who are great at the show. You know, a couple hundred thousand people watch this on YouTube and a lot of times you see in the comments, people are like, oh, he is amazing. Josh Johnson's amazing at punching up jokes on the fly. Like he's. He's exactly the type of comedian that this podcast was created for. At our best, comedians are collaborative and we throw things around and arrive at something better than we did at the beginning of the conversation. So I think you're going to love it. We'll see you in 2026. We have some great guests coming up, some great bonus episodes. In the meantime, enjoy my conversation with the great Josh Johnson.

[Josh Johnson]

Working it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The thing that I find so astounding about your career is that it's like a thing we talk about on the show all the time. Like, we get all these questions, how do you start? And, you know, how do you break in and all this stuff? And I think you're a quintessential example of you. You started and you finished. It's like you figured out how to create an act in 20 minutes and an hour. And. And then also you filmed it, and also you released it. You basically cut out every middleman that there is in show business. Oh, and there's only. There's only a few people who've done that. Like, I, like, I remember talking to Alana and Abby from Broad City and, like, yeah, like, there's. There's a few people who've done it, and. And that's kind of it. I'm just curious, like, how do you. How did you start doing that?

[Josh Johnson]

I had always been writing a lot, and then a good friend of mine was like, you should do topical stuff since you already write so much stuff. Because I. I think he had told me that he hadn't seen me do the same set, and he had seen me, like, eight or ten times in the course of, like, a couple months. But it was always like, you know, some of them were mics and some of them were shows. So it's like, yeah, I've always written a lot, and I've always, like, tried to think a thing out quickly and then write it out quickly and stuff. But then applying it to topical was the first time that I was like, oh, yeah, there will be finally a place for all this stuff to go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Josh Johnson]

Because what I had been doing before I started posting it online was just sort of, like, doing the joke for a week or a month and then just, like, moving on outside of my opener and closer. So, like, opener and closer would stay the same. Cause they were my favorite two jokes. And then everything else would just, like, move around from there. And so then when we decided to start putting it out, I was just going up at the seller, and then the seller's kind enough to, like, tape the set and then give it to you. So then I was like, I was just taking that tape, and then the only real pressure was that because the seller's taking the tape of your performance and giving it to you, I really had to just, like, get it in one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, that's right.

[Josh Johnson]

So then Getting it in one became what felt like the real free flowing conscious. Joke to joke, to joke, to story to joke. And then once I started booking some more dates on the road, because I had started doing this during the writer strike, so I wasn't like working at Daily show at the time and I wasn't on the road as much. Cause things were like, fine but not great. And then when I finally started getting some bookings, I was like, well, let's try to keep to that thing. Like, can we get it in one? And so there would come times where you had two or three shows in a night. And so it's like three chances and then you're like, okay, I think the middle one went best. And so you still just put it up that way. And then I also, I think it's a, it's a product of being a little bit annoying that I have a lot of feelings and thoughts on everything. And I think that I finally found a way to channel it that is not annoying in real time, if that makes sense. So it's like, it's like now I don't have to burden my girlfriend and my friends with this like long series of things that I think are funny about something. But still, if they don't care about the thing, then we were already off to a bad start.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think comedians, significant others everywhere will relate to this part of it.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like at least uploading to YouTube gives my girlfriend some relief of me just talking all the time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, that could substitute for therapy.

[Josh Johnson]

I. I suppose so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For couples therapy. I mean. Yeah. Because it, because it is interesting. You have this uncanny skill of being able to just go and go and go, and so few comics have that.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, our, our. I wonder if there's like a correlation with it and being an only child, because that could maybe help. Yeah, I mean, so I think, I think that like everything I do on YouTube is what I used to do to my mom. Yeah. I mean, it's like that was the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's how they invented YouTube. Yeah. It was just originally kind of excess and my silver spillover from your mom.

[Josh Johnson]

100%.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So then it would just be Burnham's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All early videos were all about.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that. No, I just, I, I would, I would just go on and on and on and then like, I could also. This is before I ever really thought about comedy in that way necessarily. I like making my mom laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But I would like, I would see where my mom as. As, like, gracious as she is and was at the time to this, like, little kid who could just go on and on forever. I would see the dip. I'd see where I started, like, bombing with my mom. I've told my friends this before they know of. Like, sometimes I. I would be talking with my mom, and she'd be like, oh, yeah. And it's like, once you get one of those, it's like, all right, you got to. There needs to be a turn.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Pick it up. You got. There's got to be a surprise.

[Josh Johnson]

Where's the twist?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where's the punchline?

[Josh Johnson]

Where's the turn? Yeah, you got to bring it home now. Once you get a. That's. That. That's only a parent's love, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is so good. You know, that's exactly right. I mean, but it is a really unique skill because most comedians. Are you watching? You go, okay, there's the joke. There's the joke. There's the joke. And you just have a flow on stage. You just keep going.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I feel like there's. I don't know. I. I think you're there. There's always a grass is greener aspect to doing comedy, because I see other people and I'm like, oh, man. Sometimes I wish I thought like that. Like, I'm still glad that I'm me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

When everything is said and done, I like doing comedy the way that I do it, because it's how I process things. But then you'll see someone who's just, like, so sharp and punchy, and sometimes I'm like, ooh, I should. I wonder if I should do more of that. Or, like, yeah, or like, I wish I thought that way. And then, you know. You know, you come back to yourself, and you're like, all right. I enjoy the way that I think, like, it's not, like, pure wishing I was, like, someone else.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But I think that it's worked out in that way that I'm doing something that isn't as normally done. So there's, like, you know, at least for the. For the time being, some appetite for it. Which is nice, because I feel like when I was just doing these things, but not topical and not recording, it was like no one noticed it, if that makes sense.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally. I mean, I think it's astonishing and, like, a great example for a lot of creatives. Listen to this show. And, like, I. I always say, like, there are things that you can make that in. That years ago, 10 years ago, would cost 10, 20, $30,000.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That now cost like $500 in terms of like camera technology and videoing things on iPhones and stuff like that. Like, you're basically putting out fully produced comedy specials every few weeks or so. And they look as good as anything, in my opinion. Sure.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I think it's also the. I really believe in everyone's burden. That's a creative to make the thing that's on their mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And I think that I look at it as. I've seen people who are incredible painters, incredible at whatever their art is, and they, they lose a little bit of their time with second guessing themselves and trying to make it perfect or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

When you have to remember for people who don't draw at all, the drawing is amazing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

And maybe if you're doing it to try to impress people who draw like you and you're trying to be a sharper or like you're playing to the back of the room essentially, then yeah, I could see getting like a bit in your head to the point where you don't release. But I just don't think in a world of noise, anybody is gonna be particularly critical of like, your chatter to the point that you shouldn't put it out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's very smart.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I think because so much of what is made is bad in general that like, you made a bad thing. If you make a bad thing, like, I don't know until I know how the show went for the people there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I don't know how It'll go for YouTube until I put it on YouTube. So I can't, I can't stress myself out too much about how it will be received on YouTube because job number one, which was making the people who came to the show part of an experience and making sure they had a good time is like, done.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Josh Johnson]

So it's like if you did job number one, then everything else is like. Is like extra. Everything else is like this extra blessing that you get. But at the same time, if I. If I feel like whether I put stuff out or don't put stuff out, I don't know what, what general impact that has on the world. But I do know that me not putting it out while feeling like it was a really good thing and not putting it out for some fear of some unknown is not gonna serve anybody. It's not gonna serve the people who inevitably, seemingly at least wanted to see it. Because whatever video did well, it's also not helping me because it's letting me Sort of live in this general fear of what people might think, even though I already have some confirmation from the people who I did it for that they liked it. So it would only be me letting a louder insecurity trump a reality that I've already witnessed. And so then you just put stuff out and you get better, and you put stuff out and you get better, and then you build on that sort of confidence with a level of competence that you know what you're doing and you won't always get it right. I mean, I tell people all the time, like, I think sometimes it's easy when people are on the way up to, like, look at them like a stock. Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I think, I think in, in industry, both audience and. And reps look at us as stocks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Johnson]

And on the way, while a stock is up, it can only go up. There can only. You can only go up. You're going up, and you're gonna go up forever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

And then at the first sign of a dip, people are like, oh, I'm selling, I'm getting out, I'm done. And then you pop up again. And the people who stuck with you, who never sold, were like, oh, yeah, yeah, it may go down a little bit, but it's always going to go up. It's going to be perfect all the time. And then. And so you, you see that, like, ebb and flow. That ebb and flow for us is like our work. The ebb and flow for everybody else is the results of our work, and the results of your work are not up to you. So, like, I don't know how people will receive me 10 years from now. I don't know if anyone will still like me 10 years from now. But I know that if I stay on this path, I'll be making better work 10 years from now if I, like, if I stay focused on it. And it may not even be better by the standards of opinion, but I think it'll be better because I'll know what I've already done. I'll know the sort of pitfalls of doing that again, and I'll be making that sort of path for myself. And when you're creating from that place, like, sometimes I wish I was, you know, five, ten years younger again just to take what I know now, that old thing. But I would not trade knowing what I know. I wouldn't just go into a time machine and go back 10 years ago and be, you know, a little younger again without the knowledge of what I have now. Yeah, I would just make all the same mistakes or make worse ones or that's whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's like a classic, a tell joke. He's like, I wish I could have sex with the person I lost my virginity to. I'd be like, ah, look at me now. Look who's not crying. But like, I think what you're bringing up is like a, is a really salient point for like, a lot of people listen to the show because a lot of times we get like, questions like, how do you get an agent? How do you get a manager? And it's like, I think your point is really pertinent, which is it doesn't really matter, weirdly, because if your stock goes down, those people jump ship.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, like, what's crazy is, is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That like, and I don't want to, you know, like, I like my agents a lot, but also like, if things, if I weren't creating this podcast, creating my shows and create my thing, like.

[Josh Johnson]

They wouldn't be getting back to me that much, if at all. Or worse. If you snap. If you snap. If a person loses their mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

One thing that like, never happens.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, right.

[Josh Johnson]

Like one thing that reps are not, Are like mental health care providers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly.

[Josh Johnson]

So it's like if you snap and you go, you know, if you, if you go on some, some talk show and have an absolutely viral moment that is bad, that will not necessarily be covered by whatever relationships you already have. And who knows, maybe your stock goes down a little bit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally. But I think what it comes back to is like, to your analogy of the stock market, you're the company and. Or you're the startup, actually is probably the more apropos analogy of it. And you ultimately have to create. Yeah, you have to create all the time.

[Josh Johnson]

The problem I find with, like, for a lot of creatives who are getting started, sometimes just because of the landscape of what creation looks like now, it gets set on a path that is a bit unfortunate and it's a path that has like no joy in it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because you. The advice you'll get from someone who's like four years into comedy, if you just started, comedy will be like, all right, you got to go up and you got to do your open mics and stuff like that, but make sure you bring your camera.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But anyone who's been doing standup for like more than four or five years knows that no one should know what your first year of comedy looked like at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know.

[Josh Johnson]

Unless you're making a long term project of like, if you were making A project that was like that Ethan Hawke one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure. It's like boyhood.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. If you're making boyhood and you're like, look, I believe in myself. I believe that I'm gonna make something of myself and make a living doing standup comedy. So I'm gonna document the entire thing to be an inspiration for people who haven't started yet, maybe people who aren't even born yet. I'm gonna record year one all the way to year 25. Right. Cause I'm that certain I'm gonna stick with it that long. Now we're talking about something. But if you're just trying to, like, go viral while also not having enough time to fulfill a contract, when you do get booked somewhere, there are places that are, no, you didn't do your time. We're not paying you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

What are you talking about?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Josh Johnson]

We hired you to do an hour, and you did 25 minutes of rambling, and then you left. Why would we pay you? What's wrong with you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

This sounds like this example.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, luckily not me. But. But. But it is a. It's a true thing. If you want to get started with any. With any art, you know, you. You get focused on what it is you want to make and. And what brings you. What brings you joy about making it. And then if you like, obviously, everyone's gonna focus on the most successful versions of the people in their field, because that is what works, and that is what is great, at least from a popularity perspective. I think, though, I saw this really great take on it one time, which was, when you start something, you are focused on the best in that field. Cause those are your heroes. So then you become incredibly critical of your work because you're comparing it to the work of the greatest people. So you're very down on yourself. Then you start to make better work. And it may still not be equal to the work of your heroes, but it's about equal to the work of your peers that started when you started. Then you get even further along, and you have potentially another dip because you're like, okay, now we're fighting with the comparison of. My hero was 10 years into comedy when they made the special that. That made me want to do comedy. And now I'm 10 years in, and it's like, what is that? What does that mean if I can't make my Sistine Chapel of comedy or whatever. And so then after that, if you get out of that third dip, which is like a really hard one, because that happens when you're Like, a decade into something, you get past that dip, and now you finally recognize that, like, all these heroes that you looked up to the entire time were just, like, people making work. And so then it doesn't, like, level yourself with them in your head, but it does create a bit of a safety net of understanding for yourself where you can be like, oh, George Carlin, one of the goats, was also just a guy that had ideas that bomb sometimes, and it took him a year to develop this joke that made me feel like comedy was the highest form of expression.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So it wasn't like he was so brilliant. It just spilled out of his mouth. And he was. And he was that good. Yeah, yeah, he was that good eventually. And so it's like that. If you can make it to that space.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I think it's. It's almost impossible to be there in your mind and not be making great work, even if that work isn't, like, greatly recognized.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's. That's a great point. When I'm watching your stuff, I. I'm like. I'm like, Josh is definitely in the running to be one of the. The goats, if not the goat in comedy.

[Josh Johnson]

When I'm watching, I feel like, man, if you. If you could say that a decade from now and not right now, I feel like if you get. If, you know, if you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Now I'm saying. Yeah, I'm saying. I see it.

[Josh Johnson]

I need you to shit on me. Because, like, this is what happens, though. This is what happens. People get excited. This is the stock that I'm talking about. People get excited, and they're like, Nvidia is never coming down. It's never coming down. And then Trump is, like, 250% tariffs on aluminum, and now people are like, johnson.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Josh Johnson's at 4.5. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. It's like, oh, no, no, no.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But. But I really see it, because when I'm watching your stuff, I'm just like, you're, I think, more prolific than anyone working, and I think the proof is in the pudding. It's all on YouTube. And I think you're as funny as almost any comic I know. And so then if you become more prolific and as funny or funnier than everybody, then you are the best. That is the best.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I think if everything stays the way that it is right now, I'll be in a good spot, because right now, I feel like most of the people that I watch that I enjoy are, like, funnier than me, and most of the people that I watch and enjoy are better at they have a better level of, like, focus than I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, in my algorithm showed up a video from you which was Kendrick versus Drake explained to white people.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why was it served to me?

[Josh Johnson]

You know, I think that sometimes the algorithm doesn't know how down someone really is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I'm saying.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I keep telling all my black friends. And I have so many of.

[Josh Johnson]

It has no. It has no idea how many people you've dapped up. It has no idea of the groups you've been jumped into. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, Mike, one day, our people, like, one day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, God, yes. I guess that's a great one.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, thanks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Drake explained. Yeah, White people.

[Josh Johnson]

It is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it does explain it, by the way. And I've read a lot of. I listened to the daily episode about it. Everything. I mean, and that was probably the best explanation.

[Josh Johnson]

Thank you. Thank you. I could tell from you saying that you read a lot about it that I was like, oh, man, there might have been some bits you were missing. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it out is brought to you by Helix. You feel that chill in the air. Winter is here. I love my Helix mattress even more during the winter. It's cozy, it's comfortable. I remember when I used to sleep on an air mattress many years ago in my apartment in Queens. Not exactly a comfort at the end of a cold winter day. But now that I have the Helix mattress, it's exactly where I want to be when the temperatures drop. You should remember that a good night's sleep is even more important during cold and flu season. I'm always thinking about that. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US Shopping for everyone else is nice, but don't forget to give yourself the gift of a good night's sleep. Sleep. Sleep is so important. It's the most important thing. Go to helixsleep.combrbigs for 27% off site wide. This is exclusive for listeners of Mike Birbiglies. Working it out. That's helixsleep.com brubigs for 27% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name in the post purchase survey so they know we sent you. We appreciate it. Helixsleep.com support for working it out comes from Rula. I'm a huge advocate of therapy. I've said this on the show a lot before. I've been in therapy for 20 plus years. Anyway, Rula is great for providing better access to Therapy. No wait lists, no frustrating back and forth. Rula makes it easy to find a mental health provider who's accepting new patients and and appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. Plus, Rula sticks with you throughout your journey, checking in to make sure your care is helping you move forward, making sure their providers are carefully screened and vetted, monitoring the quality of their care and helping you monitor your progress in therapy. Thousands have already trusted Rula to support them on their journey towards improved mental health and overall well being. Head on over to rula.com burbigs to get started today. After you sign up, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Go to r u l a.combrbigs and take the first step towards better mental health. Today. You deserve quality care from someone who cares. You toured with Trevor Noah for a bunch of years. Did he ever give advice to you on standup or anything that was helpful?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. So he, he told me, like, whether it's the act out or whether it's like the point you're making or whether, like, no matter what it is to always still bring that, like, that energy and that level of fun. Jimmy. Like, I think that sometimes if someone has a point to make, even if a joke is coming and they seem far too. They just seem like they're not joking, it's not going to be received well. Even if the point is not the joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Like you may be making a bunch of points and then facilitating them through jokes to create an arc and bring everyone to an overall conclusion.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

That happening still within that in between jokes, you still have to remind people that they're at a show. You still have to. Yeah, I mean, like, like, I think it would be. I think it would be a misstep to be like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna seem like we're not doing the show right now, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, you worked for the Daily show as a writer before. You were on camera for like four or five years. A hundred years.

[Josh Johnson]

It was like, yeah, like seven years as a writer. Wow. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're the writer there and you know that you'd be good on camera.

[Josh Johnson]

That's very hot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You ever, like, hey, so you know who'd be good at saying these words I wrote?

[Josh Johnson]

You know, I feel like someone like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, like what?

[Josh Johnson]

I also feel like the timing has to work out. And I think that when you rush things, you can put yourself in a position that is like, that. That's not necessarily for you to shine as much as, like, doing things at the right time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

So I think that, for instance, I'll give you a great example. Like, when it came to the Comedy Central half hour.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I felt like I was ready for it the year before I got it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And I was like, you know, understandably, kind of upset because it was back when a different era, before eclipse, before all this, like, before social kicked off in that way that there were only so many opportunities and there were really distinct and structured funnels to make your way through, to start getting a pass and start getting what felt like to the next level. And this still happens. The Internet has opened it up in a lot of people's minds. So, like, young creatives or new creatives can. Can really sharpen whatever path they want towards whoever they want to be like, or whatever they find interesting. But as recently as, like, 2015, you know, so, like, just. You just go back 10 years ago, there was a world where you get your JFL new faces, you get your Comedy Central half hour, you do your late night, you do like, all these things that almost seem like you can or you can't, like, like, take it or leave it. Things used to be everything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

You know, like. Like the way. The way that Chicago, the Facebook group, would pop off when the JFL callbacks went out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And just. Just the every. It was civil war.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. The dynamic of show business, and this brings us back to sort of what I think you're bringing to the table in an original way to comedy, is the dynamic of the comedy. Climbing the stairs of the comedy field right now has completely turned on its head.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It used to be you try to get new face, you try to work open mics, then you try to get new faces, then you try to get on a talk show. Now it's like, well, forget all that. And he's like, literally, you could do open mics, you could do. You could Bo Burnham. Make it. Make shorts in your basement. And they blow up. They could do what you do. They video every set and put on your best sets on YouTube. And then you blow up. It's like, it's. It's so upside down, you know, And I think the best way.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that, like, when it. When I look back at that half hour, I didn't get it the year that I really wanted it and that I really felt like I was, you know, good enough for it or whatever. And that was the one of the first years where I had to accept and don't get me wrong looking back, I was only, like, maybe three or so years into comedy or whatever. So it's like, it was one of those things where it was like, I also had to take a step back and be like, once they came out, it changed everything. So the crop that I wanted to be a part of, the people who got the half hour that year, I watched all of them, and I was like, this is very good. This is very good. Jesus is very good. And then it started to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Then it was in there like, Drew.

[Josh Johnson]

Michael was in there. Maybe. Maybe Lisa Traeger was in there. But, like, I knew some New York people that got it, some Chicago people that got it and everything, L.A. people that got it. And I watched all of them, and there wasn't a single one where I was like, oh, this person. I feel like my set was, like, stronger than theirs or whatever. I felt like my set was really strong, but it was the first time I really accepted for myself this thing that people always tell you when you start out in something or when you're doing something of how subjective everything is about how you can't take anything, you can't take things personally, and you can't expect people to get you when you feel ready. Everything happens in its time. So taking all that back to your question about being on camera at Daily show or not, I was like, that's a lesson I learned a long time ago that I've taken with me ever since then. Because I'm. Because I look back at that time and being like, okay, if I got it when I wanted it, you can play Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda. But, like, would I have been kind of meh versus when I did get it, which was the next year, And I felt like I was like, oh, man, this is it. This is like. And then. And it was only better. And it was different as well. But it was like, you know, I don't even know what happened to the jokes that were in the first tape, but, like, the tape that I made after that, I was like, this is it. And then I got it as well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And then it went out, and then I got messaged by people saying, like, it was their favorite one or saying, saying, whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And I was like, I think everything happens on. On time. And that's just. And that's not just because I got it. There are some things I never got. And I'm like, fair enough. Like, the crop that you picked for that were incredible people. So it's like the Internet has opened people's minds. Up to the fact that, like, every path is not for you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And you also don't want everything. Some things you just want because other people have them and you don't know what to want next.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Or because you. Because at one time you wanted them. But you've changed, actually, because that's what.

[Josh Johnson]

New Faces was for a lot of people. It's like, you would think. You would think that New Faces was like, you die and go to heaven. The way people got so mad if they didn't get a callback or if they didn't get it. People were ready to go to war. People wanted. And in Chicago, there's not that many industry opportunities at this time, so New Face was one of the only things coming through town. And so people were ready to kill. And then you look back at it and you're like, all right, you go to Montreal for, like, anywhere from a week to three days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

You do two showcases. You hope people are there. If you already have an agent or a manager, you don't need it as much. And it's not what it was when they were doing JFL Aspen, where it's like, people would leave with, like, development deals or, you know, the stories that you hear, though that already wasn't happening by the time we hit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like people in show business are. Would rather find out from. From you what you're doing, then you find out what they're doing. Yeah. That's how I feel. How sophisticated your operation is right now. Like, they want to get 9 million views on their YouTube. Oh, sure, sure.

[Josh Johnson]

But. But that's what I mean. It's like, I think that if you don't know what to want next, you're just going to want what someone else has.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And if you do know what you want, then, like, everything else sort of, like, doesn't matter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, what do you.

[Josh Johnson]

What do I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When I look at you, I'm like, I don't even know what you want that you. What you could want that you don't have. Like, is there anything that you're striving for? Big picture.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I mean, I want to have the best. Like, these are. These are all of my, like, most selfish, like, id. Like. Like. Like things that are, like, all ego.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, basist ego. It's like, I want to have the best catalog ever. I want to be remembered as, like, the best writer ever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The Goat.

[Josh Johnson]

And then I want to be able to look back and be like, I made all of this art with all these different people as well. Like, you know, I have plans for, like, music to come out. I have plans for like, all. All these other things that I want to be doing. And so I think it's really just like the ability to create. I want to have more of free flowing as well. So it's like, with. That's going to mean I need to have more capital or more collaborators. So there's definitely stuff that I want, but there's no. There's no, like, thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have Timothy Chalamet esque aspirations.

[Josh Johnson]

I guess so. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because it's like, did you see the speech?

[Josh Johnson]

I saw some of it where he's like, I'm chasing greatness. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Like, I want to be like Kobe.

[Josh Johnson]

I think about it like that and it's like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I like, I like that speech.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Jokes about it. I was like, no, no, I like that he's honest about it.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's also something you can only get for yourself as well. Because. Because anything that I want that someone else has to give me, I'll be like chasing for the rest of my life even after I get it. So, like, like, if you want. If. If I say I want a Grammy for Best Comedy Album. Right. There's no practical way to chase that thing within art. You're just gonna keep making your art and they're either gonna give it to you or they won't give it to you. And then there's gonna be people that are like, you didn't give them. That's crazy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's crazy.

[Josh Johnson]

You didn't give them. But it's either gonna happen or it's not gonna happen. Cause it's not up to you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So if you make your passion and the thing you're chasing, winning a Grammy for Best Comedy Album, but you know, all of the politics and everything that goes into it as well, what are you doing?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

Whereas if you keep making stuff that you feel like you could comfortably say, I think this could win, like, like, when I look at who's in the category, I think this is as good as what's in there. And you just know that to yourself quietly as well. You're not even making noise about it. You're just like, I'm really proud of what I did. I think it's up there with all the people that are nominated. And maybe you get nominated, maybe you don't, maybe you win, maybe you don't. But like, chasing greatness is like such a personal aspiration that you, you know on your deathbed that you did it or not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Everything else Is kind of like, people have to give it to you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Josh Johnson]

You know, like, even when people come to me and they're like, how do I write for late night? I really want to write for late night. I'm like, you. You could be the best writer in the world, but if you're not at the right place, the right time, and there aren't job openings, then it won't happen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. This is called the slow round. Who are you jealous of?

[Josh Johnson]

Jealous of. Okay, there's. Some people have already heard this story, but there was a time where I ran into a guy at a party who was also named Josh Johnson. And he was gorgeous, and he was much taller than me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's hard.

[Josh Johnson]

And at one point. Point at the party, I'm pretty sure unprovoked, this dude was talking about, like, science. Like, he was talking about some theory and spinning a basketball. And I was like. I was like, I gotta kill him. I've never wanted anyone dead the way I want this dude dead. I was like. I was like. So I was. I. I was seething with. It was Shakespearean, the level that I hated this dude. This was like. This was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's some Globetrotter right there.

[Josh Johnson]

And also, it's not like he was talking about physics. He was talking about a totally different scientific theory while spinning. He was spinning the basketball because he. I just didn't. I guess he didn't have his mind on enough things at once.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

And so I just. Man, I hated that dude. And he was, like. He was, like, jacked as well. But not, like. But not in a gross way. Because now some people are so jacked, it's like, oh, you went too far. And now women actually don't like it. Cause you're, like, sculpted in a way that looks, like, steroidy. Like, their skin's all tight.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a steroid level.

[Josh Johnson]

He was not that. He was like. He was draped just enough within his clothes that you knew he was jacked. Like a nice oxford shirt, but he's, like, kind of busted out of it. And I was like, why couldn't your name be Derek? Like, I need one of these things to not be happening. Like, so. Yeah. Yeah. Very jealous of him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used.

[Josh Johnson]

To be as patient as you are persistent?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I think that with patience, you can get yourself to a place where it's okay if you don't do it today or if you don't start or if you don't, because things take time. But then persistence can also make you impatient because you're just putting in the work every day. And that level of consistency should yield results whether you're working out or you're working on your career or you're working on your relationship or something. But I think if you're equal parts persistent and patient, then I like that. That's a. That's like a recipe for success eventually. But you'll be ready for eventually because you're pat.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Support for working it out comes from AG1. I really like AG1. It is the daily health drink that combines your multivitamin pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants into one simple green scoop. It's one of the easiest things you can do to support your body every day. What's your morning routine like? Coffee? Shower? Light stretching? Well, let me tell you, my morning routine has never been the same since I started with AG1. It's become a foundation of my energy and wellness throughout the day. AG1 Next Gen contains more vitamins and minerals than ever before, and it's clinically shown to fill common nutrient gaps. Don't be ashamed of your nutrient gaps. We all have them, but AG1 Next Gen is here to help you fill those gaps. AG1 has their best offer ever. If you head to drinkag1.com sprobigs you'll get a welcome kit, a morning person hat, a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2, an AG1 flavor sampler, and you'll get to try their new sleep supplement, AGZ for free. Wow. That's a great deal. That's drinkag1.com brewbigs for $126 in free gifts for new subscribers. Support for working it out comes from Quince. Oh man, I love Quince. This year I've talked a lot about Quince's summer and fall collections. You must be thinking that's all they have, right? Surely they don't have a winter and holiday collection. Guess what? They do. They've got my old standby, the $50 Mongolian cashmere sweater. And for the cold weather, they have wool coats that are equal parts stylish and durable. You got a layer everybody. You're not going to get better layers anywhere else than Quince. By partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, Quince cuts out the middleman to deliver premium quality at half the cost of other high end brands so you can get luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag. Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com burbigs for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada as well. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Burbigs B I R B I G S. Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Burbigs. This is the working it out section where we talk through premises or ideas. I had one today.

[Josh Johnson]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which was. And again, a lot of this is just half baked stuff where I don't have a punchline yet. Our. Our super came downstairs and. And Jenny, my wife, had called the super and because there were animals in the walls. And he got there and I didn't know he was coming. And then I was like, let me. Let me put my wife on speaker. I put on speaker, I go, jen, what was the thing you were asking Jump all about? And she goes, she goes, there's animals above our bedroom. I go, okay, like in the ceiling? And said, yeah. And then she goes, and there might be animals above Una's ceiling or. That was in my dream. And I was like, we can't really be on speakerphone with that kind of take.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I think you can't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You can say that to your husband, but you can't say that to the super.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I. So do you think that in making the joke, are you trying to express one specific thing? Are you trying to express how comfortable y' all are with your super?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, no, no. This is actually a good exercise. I'm trying to express that. That sometimes, occasionally my wife, whom I love so much, will say something where I'm like, I thought we were on the same page. That we would never say to a total stranger what might have happened in our dream.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's a go with hard facts. We got like a professional over.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We got to tell them where the animals are.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or where the animals aren't. But we. Or lie even just be like, there's animals everywhere.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But we can't be like, maybe in my dream.

[Josh Johnson]

I think. I think there's something very funny about the idea that, like, there are things that are confined to a relationship that you would never. You would never imagine doing outside of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

For most people, it's sex.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. That's funny. But for me, that's a good angle.

[Josh Johnson]

For me, it's things that we know when said out loud should be secrets. And as much as I love my wife, she tells her secrets to people Besides me. This is really strong, and it makes me as uncomfortable as if she just said sexual secrets.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, of course.

[Josh Johnson]

It's like, no, not in front of.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, not in front of the super. Not in front of Jean Paul.

[Josh Johnson]

This is one of the worst threesomes you can have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's right.

[Josh Johnson]

Is sharing what might have been a dream, but is actually. Because now he needs to hear it. Just so that we don't lose all credibility.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I made eyes with him just kind of like. You know what I mean? Like.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, well, yeah. So you, as you as the guy there have to now be like, this is the first time she's saying that dream part. Just so you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is the first time she's saying that dream part.

[Josh Johnson]

Just so you know. Because that's. Because what I tell you right now that I wouldn't have called you if I thought it was the dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

First time she said the dream part.

[Josh Johnson]

The first time she said dream partner.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If you dream. Thanks.

[Josh Johnson]

I want you to know because now, now you. You completely separate from Jenny as Mike. Have to fight for your credibility.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I know.

[Josh Johnson]

So now you have to stand there and be like, listen, listen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Look, I know we call you for all sorts of things, but if she had said that dream part earlier, I would have told her to go back to sleep, see if she hear it again. Right. And then while she was asleep, I would listen for. I want you to know there's protocols before we call you. There's whole things we do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I just want you to know how much I respect you. I respect what you do.

[Josh Johnson]

I want you to know that in our marriage, we have a contract. And that contract is if something is a dream, we don't take it outside.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We don't tell the strangers about the.

[Josh Johnson]

Dreams until we're positive. Because when I tell you that if you leave here, if you leave here and I hear something in the wall or the ceiling, I'm just gonna assume I'm in Inception.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because I don't even know if I'm awake right now. Maybe we're both in my wife's dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then the other. Okay, so then the other thing I had on this run potentially, is the other night, my wife said to me, the pipes are gonna freeze unless we shut off the water in the basement. Let's go down into the basement. And I was like, oh, my God. And I, I, I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement. And that's when I Realized that let's go in the basement means I need you to go in the basement.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's all I have. Yeah, I think.

[Josh Johnson]

I think she tells you, let's go in the basement the way that you would, like, say to the police, like, let's go in the basement.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

That's right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like, that's nice to bring it to the next.

[Josh Johnson]

This is wholly your thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

You know. And is she scared of the basement for a specific reason?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think claustrophobia. She has claustrophobia. And I think generally, like, dark space, afraid of animals, bugs, et cetera.

[Josh Johnson]

It's also very funny if you have all those things. If you, like, if she knows that you have all the things that make her scare the basement. But she was like, oh, I meant you when I said let's. Yeah, I mean, let you yourself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, let you yourself.

[Josh Johnson]

That's what the contraction is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what the contraction meant. Yeah, it's very funny.

[Josh Johnson]

And so then you. You go down there. Because now I'm interested as someone listening to you, what it's like for you down there. Not. No. Not just knowing that you might be scared of some of the same things she's scared of, but also now that you have to be alone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Because paint a picture of that basement.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Because there's something very funny about her. Her telling you, we need to go down to the basement. Pipes are going to freeze. Oh, okay. The time in between you said the last thing. Can you say that part again in the beginning?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. So she says, let's go down to the basement. And then I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement.

[Josh Johnson]

So right there, when you're like the time between she says it and then you say you're ready, I feel like that's a great time to insert everything that is, like, feeling everything. I don't want you to go in the basement. Then you finally mustered up your courage and you've been betrayed because it's like, I never. That's right now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right. And then the payoff is stronger, potentially.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And then you go down there, and then, like, something happens. Something doesn't happen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But then it's also very funny to me if you get back up from the basement after this hero's journey, this odyssey to, like, let the water flow so the pipes don't burst so you don't have to go down To a wet, dark basement. Right. And you get up there, and she's asleep.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really funny.

[Josh Johnson]

So she wasn't even waiting for you? Like the way that Odysseus's wife was waiting for him to come back from this? Yeah. I mean, like, he. Everyone thought he was dead. And she was like, no, my man is coming back to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah, right.

[Josh Johnson]

And they.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All that basement mythology.

[Josh Johnson]

Your wife sits you down to the basement. And they was like, you know what? I could go for a nap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And then, you know, and then I had this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The other day. I was. I was. I was on a trip, and I had a creek in my neck. I had slept on it wrong. And I went to the gym, and they gave me a. At the hotel, they gave me a foam roller so I could roll out my neck and my back. I'm on the elevator and this lady walks on. She goes, what's. What's wrong? Because I had the foam roller. What. What's the foam roller for, stranger? I go, oh, I have a little creek in my neck. And she goes, you want oxy? I swear to God, I go, no. Like oxycontin.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was like, no.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She goes, you have oxy? I go, no. He goes, you want oxy? I go, no. He goes, you have oxy? And then we get to her floor, she goes. She walks out, and she goes, I have oxy. I was like, this is the craziest conversation. This is the craziest drug deal I've ever been in by accident.

[Josh Johnson]

Because it's the first drug deal I've ever heard where I can't tell if the deal is from or to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Ah, that's great.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, I've never heard someone offer me something then ask me if I had the thing they were offering.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because that's. That's a bad salesperson.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a bad salesperson.

[Josh Johnson]

But I'll pitch you this. I do think that in this scenario.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

The. The poor attempt at drug dealing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Was the only time somebody was really trying to help you because the pillow obviously hurt you because you woke up with a crooking neck.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

The person at the gym, spa, whatever, also didn't help you because foam rollers hurt.

[Mike Birbiglia]

True.

[Josh Johnson]

And so the only person offering you relief is a stranger.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Stranger in an elevator.

[Josh Johnson]

That's like, hey, you. And it's like, doesn't have the oxy on them in the moment. Because that's an amateur move. That's an amateur. Anybody who knows anything about drug dealing knows you don't deal the drugs and have the drugs on you. Well, if you're a cop. Well, if you're a cop, going up there being like, oh, oh, my neck. Oh, no, I would love some illicit oxy. You know what I mean? So this person has to be careful. And so now they're asking you, hey, do you want Oxy? You say, no. All right. But that sometimes is cold for not yet. Do you have oxy? No. Okay. So they definitely want Oxy. All right. Because if you don't have it, you must want it, and if you don't want it, you don't want it yet. And that is what we call, like, real, real business. Not taking no for an answer. Always be closing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? And so I think that there is a. There is a thing too, where, if there's any point, like, let's say this becomes a callback later on from another story where you're also staying in this hotel either again or later in your trip, that, like, you know what floor they got off at.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

So now if you have any reason to go that floor, you're probably going to pass their room.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Josh Johnson]

And even if you don't want oxy, you may need their help because they're the only person you know on that floor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a good. That's a good point.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I mean, so it's like, now you have a friend in the hotel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This actually makes me think. It ties in a lot to this whole other run of jokes I have about my broken shoulder many years ago. So it could tie into that.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Because now you're not going to get. You're not just going to randomly get on Oxy. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But how often. How often do you get an offer in an elevator.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

While rolling your neck? This is. There's a book called the Secret.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And sometimes, you know, the law of Attraction, you're sitting there rolling your neck.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's not that, by the way, the oxy at least works.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I've been told to roll things that hurt, and then they just hurt more, and then maybe they got better. But I don't know if the rolling. I'm the jury's still out for me on rolling. And I'm no expert, but like, that to me is like, we know oxy does something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it was her way of saying, let's go in the basement.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. Are you more afraid of the basement or her hotel room? You know, because it. Because her hotel room might have all the Same aspects as a basement.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Completely terrified to go to a stranger's hotel room. I would be like, no, I'm fully out on this.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean a strangers hotel room with oxy is, is a, it's a wonderland.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The last thing we do is called Working it out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to support?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, Feeding America.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, Feeding America. Great, great organization. We've given to them before. We will contribute to them again. We will link to them in the show notes. Josh Johnson, amazing to see you and I don't know, Future Goat.

[Josh Johnson]

That's very kind. We'll see. I could still snap. Anything can happen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it out cuz it's not done. We're working it out cuz there's no that's going to do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Josh Johnson on Instagram and on YouTube @ Josh Johnson Comedy. The full video of this episode is on our YouTube channel @Mike Birbiglia Check it out. Subscribe. We will be posting more and more videos. Go to burbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list. To be the first to know about my upcoming shows, our producers are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia and Mabel Lewis. Associate producer Gary Simon. Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this, go to Apple Podcasts and just give us a few stars and rate us and review us and say which episode you enjoyed the most. The Ben Stiller and Adam Scott episode or the Tig? Not Taro, the or Joe Firestone. Check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcasts where you think folks should start. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Let's say your enemies are the animals that are living in your ceiling above your bedroom. That may or may not be in your dream. Maybe what you could do is you could play Mike Birbigli's Working it out podcast very loudly for the animals. And the sonic explosion will make the animals not even want to live there anymore. Or it'll make them fall asleep and then they won't run around as much. All right, we're working it out. We'll see you next time.