Q&A: Mike Answers Voicemails About AI and Weird Audience Energy

Summary

Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out: Q&A on AI and Audience Energy

In this special episode of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out, host Mike Birbiglia delves into an array of listener questions, exploring topics ranging from artificial intelligence in comedy to handling challenging audience dynamics. Released on August 4, 2025, this episode offers insightful perspectives from Mike, enriched with personal anecdotes and professional experiences.

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1. Handling Creative Feedback and Rejection

Question from Lex ([00:52]): Lex inquires whether Mike ever outright rejects a joke or material during collaborative sessions, emphasizing the fear of stifling creativity by saying "no."

Mike's Insight ([01:37]): Drawing from his improv training, Mike underscores the importance of the "yes, and" philosophy in creative collaborations. He explains that initially embracing every idea fosters creativity, allowing for organic development before any critical editing occurs.

“If you listen to the Liz Allen episode... the principle of long, long form improv is yes and yes and yes and.” – Mike Birbiglia [01:37]

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2. AI's Role in Creativity and Comedy

Question from Lily ([03:48]): Lily, a performer involved in AI, asks about the potential of AI to enhance the creative process and its implications for the comedy and entertainment industries.

Mike's Perspective ([04:02]): Mike acknowledges the evolving role of AI in comedy, mentioning instances where AI attempts to mimic his comedic style with moderate success. He emphasizes that while AI can generate material, it lacks the "fundamental spark" of personal and confessional elements that make art truly engaging.

“What it doesn't offer is the fundamental spark of what makes art interesting, which is the personal element of it and particularly the confessional element of it.” – Mike Birbiglia [04:02]

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3. Breaking into Comedy Writing Without Relocating

Question from Niffer ([05:31]): Niffer from Orlando seeks advice on how to get her comedy writing noticed without moving to major hubs like Los Angeles or New York.

Mike's Advice ([06:04]): Mike encourages finding and engaging with local comedy communities, highlighting that relocating isn't a necessity. He shares his own journey of discovering improv groups, which significantly impacted his creative growth. Building a supportive community can provide the necessary platform to showcase and refine one's work.

“There is one in Chicago, there's one in San Francisco... and being goofballs and doing theater games and heralds and all this stuff.” – Mike Birbiglia [06:04]

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4. Maintaining Motivation in Creative Work

Question from Steve Picatagio ([09:40]): Steve, a freelance musician, asks how Mike stays motivated on days when he's feeling uninspired.

Mike's Strategy ([10:16]): Mike shares that consistent daily practice creates a routine that sustains his creativity even when motivation wanes. He likens it to a pianist's daily practice, emphasizing the importance of showing up and producing work, which in turn stimulates creative thinking.

“I've done the repetition of it so long for so many years that it feels more normal to do it than to not do it.” – Mike Birbiglia [10:16]

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5. The Golden Rule of Comedy: Tragedy Plus Time

Question from Sean Flanagan ([12:30]): Sean probes into the concept that "tragedy plus time equals comedy," seeking Mike's thoughts on the appropriate timing for tragic events to be transformed into humor.

Mike's Exploration ([13:06]): Mike reflects on the delicate balance between sensitivity and humor. Using his experience with "Sleepwalk with Me," he illustrates how presentation and audience perception play crucial roles in determining when tragic elements can be effectively and respectfully turned into comedy.

“It's the relationship between me and the audience... are you comfortable talking about it and does the audience find it funny?” – Mike Birbiglia [13:06]

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6. Managing Difficult or Unresponsive Audience Energy

Question from Aj ([19:08]): Aj seeks strategies for handling situations when the audience's energy feels off or unresponsive.

Mike's Approach ([19:37]): Mike advises acknowledging the unusual energy in the room candidly. By addressing peculiarities—like a disruptive noise or unexpected behavior—he creates a shared experience with the audience, fostering a connection that can reset the room's vibe.

“I'm speaking into a microphone... if you can get the audience into the headspace of, like, okay, that's what we're all doing.” – Mike Birbiglia [19:52]

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7. Editing: Cutting Material for Larger Project Arcs

Question from Dan ([??]): Dan asks about the process of cutting jokes or bits that, while loved, don't serve the overarching narrative of a project.

Mike's Reflection ([??]): Mike discusses the importance of curating content to maintain the strength and coherence of a project. He draws inspiration from "This American Life," emphasizing that eliminating weaker elements can enhance the overall impact, turning the remaining material into a more powerful and resilient narrative.

“They kill it, and it's like an artistic victory because it's sort of proof that what has remained is so strong that it has defied the killing process.” – Mike Birbiglia [??]

(Note: Specific timestamps for Dan's question were not provided in the transcript.)

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8. Rekindling Creativity as a New Parent

Question from Eva ([23:14]): Eva from Brazil, a new mother, struggles with a creative block after having her child and seeks advice on reigniting her comedic creativity.

Mike's Guidance ([23:56]): Mike empathizes with Eva's challenges, suggesting she write down her feelings without the pressure of shaping them into comedy immediately. This raw expression can lead to authentic material once she starts processing her experiences, helping her reconnect with her creative side.

“Don't think about the genre that is comedy. Just think about who you are as a human being and how you feel and go from there.” – Mike Birbiglia [23:56]

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9. Advice for Aspiring Comedians

Question from T. Edward Strinsky ([??]): T. Edward asks what advice Mike would give to his younger self as an emerging comedian.

Mike's Recommendation ([??]): Mike advises young comedians to experiment with different types of jokes and to deeply explore the ones that resonate with audiences. By pushing the boundaries of successful material, comedians can discover the underlying elements that make their humor compelling, potentially expanding a single joke into extensive material.

“Always go in harder on that joke that is working. Probe on stuff that works.” – Mike Birbiglia [??]

(Note: Specific timestamps for T. Edward's question were not provided in the transcript.)

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10. Balancing Authenticity and Humor in Performances

Question from Andy J. Pizza ([27:50]): Andy shares his struggle with making his public speaking feel authentically funny and asks how Mike overcame the tendency to "try too hard" in his comedy.

Mike's Solution ([28:35]): Mike highlights the value of improv classes in fostering genuine reactions and presence on stage. He emphasizes focusing on conveying ideas rather than memorizing lines, allowing natural humor to emerge from honest storytelling and interaction.

“Improv teaches you to kind of listen and respond... there's actually no, you just have to be present.” – Mike Birbiglia [28:35]

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Conclusion

This episode of Working It Out provides a comprehensive look into Mike Birbiglia's approach to creativity, audience engagement, and the evolving landscape of comedy. By addressing diverse questions from listeners, Mike offers valuable insights that resonate with both aspiring and established performers. Whether grappling with the integration of AI in creative processes or seeking methods to maintain authenticity on stage, Mike's thoughtful responses serve as guiding principles for navigating the complexities of comedic artistry.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

Foreign. It's Mike Birbiglia. This is working it out. A special episode this week. I went on Instagram and I asked you for questions just about the Good Life and any other projects I've worked on or, or my specials or my movies or the creative process or really anything. We like to do this every now and again. If you haven't seen the Good Life, it is currently on Netflix. I can't thank you enough to all the folks out there who have seen it and posted about it and recommended it to people. It means the world to me, is a big labor of love that I worked on for a couple years, often on here on the podcast, and I just can't thank you enough for supporting it. So we asked for some audio questions and I'm going to play them. I'll play right here.

[Lex]

Hey, Mike, this is Lex. I'm always impressed with how, like, productive the conversation is when you're working it out on your podcast. My question is, do you ever just tell someone, no, that doesn't work. That's awful. I've never heard it happen on the podcast. I know in general that's a bad idea, but are there, like, times where you've like, have really just, like, wanted to stop someone and in like, very certain terms just be like, please don't do that joke. It's bad. It's just, please, I love you. Stop. No, I'm just curious. Thank you for all you do. You're my favorite podcast.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, so sweet. That's a great question. I, you know, I always think there's potential in anything. Like, I think that that's sort of like what my improv training taught me. Like, you know, if you listen to the Liz Allen episode, which is all about improv, Like, I took improv workshops from Liz Allen when I was in college and I was part of a college improv troupe that just did long form improv, like Chicago style improv. And the principle of long, long form improv is yes and yes and yes and. Which is to take the idea that your partner is proposing and to say yes immediately. Yes, absolutely. Let's get, let's do that. And then also this other thing that builds on that, and that person says yes, 100% that, and I'll build on that with this. And that is the principle of improv. So, like, when you watch like Siren Live or really like almost any comedy on television, a lot of the writers have an improv background and a lot of the writers are people who are from this background of like, let's Build on an idea, and build on an idea, and build on an idea, and then if it doesn't work, we'll kill it and just go, no, not going to do that. We're going to throw that out. But I find that if you are saying no as your first instinct, that is not necessarily a productive way to create. And I think that one of the keys to creativity is creating, creating, creating, creating almost without thinking. And then once you have created something, then you can edit it back. And I think, like, for me, if you don't start with something, then you can't get to the point where you're editing it into what you truly want it to be. Okay, we'll go to the next one.

[Lily]

Hi, Mike. My name is Lily, and I'm a performer who also works in AI so my question to you is, do you think AI has the capacity to enhance the creative process in a positive way? And how do you see AI changing the world of comedy or entertainment in general?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thanks, Lily. So AI is. Yeah, this is a big topic because I think there are some lawsuits. I think there's comedians who are suing because the AI is, I don't know, consuming people's content and then, you know, repurposing it and learning how to tell jokes in the style of whoever it is. It certainly has done that with my specials because I. I recently was on a train, and I was like, what would happen if I write a joke in the voice of Mike Birbiglia about being on a train? I was on a train to Rhode island, and the jokes were pretty good. I mean, they weren't like, I wouldn't perform the jokes, but they were 60% there, maybe 50% there. But I was very surprised, and I thought, wow, this is astonishing. And I think, like, in relation to. I don't know, I guess in relation to creativity, the thing that AI doesn't offer. What it doesn't offer is the fundamental spark of what makes art interesting, which is the personal element of it and particularly the confessional element of it. The things that you don't want to talk about, you're uncomfortable talking about, and the specificity with which you talk about the things you don't want to talk about. All right, here's the next question.

[Lily]

Hi, Mike and the Working it out podcast team. So grateful for the podcast. It's been so fun. I'm Niffer from Orlando, Florida, and I am curious about getting into comedy writing. I have some samples, I have some things written. I do some standup, but it's not Something that I am going out there every week for. But the writing side, I really enjoy. How do I get that in front of the right people? Do I need to move to Los Angeles or New York? Thanks for your help.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Hey, Niffer, thank you so much for your question. Thanks for the shout out to the crew. I'm sitting across from Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons, two of the producers on the show. As a matter of fact, really good segue into Mabel plugging her tour right now. Mabel, tell us about the show you're directing that is on tour.

[Mabel Lewis]

I co direct a show called Dukes. I co direct with show Hornbuckle and the show stars Leva Pierce and Jane Wickline from Saturday Night Live. It's a sketch and musical show that the two of them perform in with a bunch of original songs. And we're touring it all around the country. We will be in LA this week and then we are landing our summer tour at Joe's Pub in New York City. That's later this month.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a great show. You're bearing the lead, by the way, which is they were guests on the show on July 7, of course.

[Mabel Lewis]

And hopefully. I like that. This is just like for Niffer, you know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is it for Niffer, though? Niffer is not in San Francisco.

[Mabel Lewis]

She was like, how do I get my writing in front of people? And we were like, well, let's tell you about this awesome story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let's plug these shows. Okay, but that's a great show. Duke's show is so funny, so go see that. The question is, how do I get my stuff in front of people? Do I need to live in one of these cities? My answer for that is actually, no, you don't. But there is a caveat to that, which is I feel like you do want a community of comedians, artists, a sort of scene, so to speak. And right now, there's one in Chicago, there's one in, you know, there's one in San Francisco, there's one in, you know, Austin, Texas, obviously has a huge one right now. You know, like, when I started out in comedy in the late 90s in DC, I was just like amazed at the idea of like doing standup at all in front of anyone, really. And then around that time, I found my improv group in college. And that was really life changing because I was like, oh, my God, these people like doing this stuff too. And being goofballs and doing theater games and heralds and all this stuff. And it's like, this is unbelievable. I can't believe this. And then at a certain point, I think if you get better and better and better partly through your work and solitude, but then partly through sharing with community, you potentially might be at a point where you could share your work with people and try to make it at a scale that you couldn't afford to make it on your own. So that's my long and short of it. I mean, it's an unsatisfactory answer in a certain sense, and I get it, but it's the most honest version of my answer. Okay. Gary, do you want to plug any of your upcoming shows? Gary Simons is one of the other producers on the podcast. Gary, do you have any shows that you want to plug? Gary? Of course. If you saw the Good Life tour, you probably saw Gary. He opened up for almost every single date on that tour, and he is a riot. Hey, thanks, Mike. If you're in Minneapolis in October, I'm going to be in the 10,000th laughs festival, comedy festival. So you can catch me there, which is exciting. Thanks. That's great, man. I didn't even know that. It's awesome. All right, let's go to the next question.

[Steve Picatagio]

Hi, Mike, my name is Steve Picatagio. I'm a freelance musician in New York City, and I'm a huge fan of your comedy. And as a musician, I relate a lot to comedians. And I've always been really inspired by your, not only your comedy, but your just work ethic and kind of your vision over the last several years. And my question for you is, what are some things you do when you're feeling less motivated and less willing to kind of get up and do the work on any particular day? Thanks so much.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thanks a lot, Steve, for the question. Thanks for the kind words. It's a really deep question. It's. Yeah, what do you do when you don't have the motivation to work on the next thing? I admit, you know, look, it makes me think the reason I'm pausing is it's making me think and, like, what is the motivation that gets me working on stuff every morning? I honestly think that, like, I, I, I've done the repetition of it so long for so many years that it feels more normal to do it than to not do it. So, so I think it's like, you know, probably for like a pianist or a musician, it would be a similar thing. Like, if you play piano every day for 15 years, a certain, if you try to not play piano, one day you'd be like, oh, I probably should just, just play A little bit, yeah. It's weird. I was watching that Billy Joel documentary on hbo, which is really good. And, you know, he was saying that when he walks into a room, he's uncomfortable socially unless he sees a piano, and then he can kind of hide behind the piano. That's sort of how I feel about jokes and writing jokes and all that. I think, you know, I don't. What I will say is I don't always know what I'm writing while I'm writing it. Like, in other words, like filling pages, or in your case, maybe writing songs and not knowing what that song's gonna be about. Or in my case, what the joke's gonna be about, what the show's gonna be about, what the movie's gonna be about. I actually think is a majority of the job of any creative is literally just writing anything at all. And I may not solve or have answers for those things on that day, but it's forcing my brain to think about that when I'm not writing. So then maybe the next day I have the answers. All right, this is the next one.

[Sean Flanagan]

Hey, working it out podcast, this is Sean Flanagan. My question for you is about the golden rule of comedy, which is tragedy plus time equals comedy. I know it's been attributed to you, Mike, before, but you've attributed it to others. And regardless, I'm curious about the time component of that formula. Like, what is the magic number or the feeling. The magic feeling around turning tragedy into comedy. When will it be shocking to audiences and when will it be funny?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, thanks, John. That's a great question. I'm just looking it up right now. Comedy is tragedy plus time attribution. This statement is attributed variously to Mark Twain, Steve Allen, Carol Burnett, Lenny Bruce, and Woody Allen. I'll go with Twain on that one, but I'm guessing it's before Twain. It is something that I wrestle with a lot and debate in my head. And certainly with the Good Life, I kind of gave in to the idea of, well, I'm living this right now, and can I find the comedy in it? And ultimately, it's a. Comes down to a relationship between me and the audience, or you and the audience, which is, are you comfortable talking about it and does the audience find it funny? Because I think that one of the things I always think about with it is in relation to the movie Sleepwalk with Me, where as a show, I did it as a one person show, and it was really killing. And then we filmed a film adaptation and we got to the edit and there weren't laughs from these test audiences. Like, we would show it to groups of like five or 10 people, and no one was laughing. And, you know, we thought it was so funny. And it was me and Seth Barish and Jeffrey Richmond, and we were just like, oh, my God, what have we done? This is a debacle. What are we going to do? And so we came up with this idea of going out and driving around New York and Connecticut and New Jersey and talking to the camera and basically saying a lot of things I said in the solo show. So it was me talking to camera and saying, like, I know I'm in the future also. And, like, I just want to remind you before we get to this part of the story, you're on my side. And we plugged those in and it started getting huge laughs. It was the craziest thing. I've never seen a comedy 180 like that in my entire life and career. It was crazy. And so we've analyzed that for years to come. And we always talk about how there's something about in Sleepwalk With Me, the show, where I'm telling the story and I'm saying, I'm jumping through a second story window and all these things that are so extreme, but they can see I'm okay. The audience can see I walked on stage. I'm okay. I'm not bleeding. I'm not traumatized. And with the movie, they didn't know because the present tense of the movie is these moments where I'm jumping through a window or I'm breaking up with my girlfriend, all these things. And so we found that if you. If you. If you shoot the movie as a flashback from the present, and the present is me driving and looking at the camera, we can see that I'm okay and I'm driving a car. I seem all right, and I have a tone that. That is, you know, it's. It's. I seem like I'm able to have some understanding of what happened. So that that's what I would say about that. It's like, how comfortable are you talking about it? And then how funny is it with the audience? 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[Aj]

Hello, my question is how do you address a split or dead or just weird energy audience? When you notice something just isn't right about the vibe or something's off about the vibe, do you label it up top? Do you ignore it? Do you launch new material? Do you do crowd work? How do you go about Resetting the energy of the room so that it's most conducive for your comedy or just a performance. And in general.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aj, are you doing an impression of me as you ask a question of me? No, I'm just kidding. I. You. We do sound a little bit similar. It's a good question. Aj, what do you do to reset a room?

[Aj]

Yeah, I agree.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, there definitely. That definitely happens, like, with some regularity. I would say, like, one in 20 shows, you know, you're in a room, and it just doesn't quite feel right, like something happened or whatever. I think generally, like, you're. You know, the art form of standup is, like, one person in front of a group of people and in a room, like, and everyone's present in the room. And I think that. That. That whatever you can do to acknowledge something in the room that's unusual, I would say the better. Like, I think, like, you know, a lot of times, like, I'll perform at colleges or I'll perform at, like, a corporate event in, like, a hotel ballroom or whatever, and I'll just, like, talk about, like, the chandelier or the carpet or the. Or the tables or what people are eating for dinner or whatever. Whatever you can do to. To hang a lantern on that. Like, we're all just in this room together. Like, that's the baseline of what's happening here. There's a group of us in a room, and I'm speaking into a microphone, and. And if you can get the audience into the headspace of, like, okay, that's what we're all doing. And, oh, maybe there's something weird because someone's having a coughing fit in the corner, or someone's phone keeps going off, or there's a baby in the room or whatever. The thing is, like, that's good, because then everyone's on the same page of, like, oh, okay, that's a person. That's not just, like, a video recording of a person. That's a person. And once you get to that point, then, like, you can pivot into material. That's just my. That's one of my tricks. All right, go to the next question. Hey, Mike, it's Dan from Florida. I'm curious, the longer you do this, do you find it any easier to cut jokes or bits that you love but aren't laser focused on serving the larger arc of the project? Thanks so much, and congratulations on the good life. That's a great question, Dan. I. I have to say, like, the amount of jokes on the cutting room floor of this show, the Good Life is the most I've ever had. I mean, it's, it's literally like a full hour of material that I've done on stage and, and, and has worked. And I actually have kind of like a bunch of different ideas for how I could repurpose some of the material, because I do love the material. But I have to say, like, you know, this American life, you know, Ira Glass has been like a huge, huge influence on me and a huge mentor to me, and I learned this huge thing from him in relation to that. They, at their show, you know, they create a bunch of stories and then they kill the parts of the story that they don't feel like works in that episode. And they use the word kill kind of triumphantly. They kill it. And it's like when they're killing something, it's like an artistic victory because it's sort of proof that what has remained is so strong that it has defied the killing process. And so there's like a pride in killing something because you're like, I'm killing that. And it's great. And so I do think that that's. I do experience that. And I learned that from Hourglass. Okay, next time.

[Eva]

Hi, Mike, this is Eva from Brazil, and I'm a stand up comedian. But lately I have been on a pause mode because I became a mom and my son is two and a half years old, and I haven't been really creative since he was born. I don't know if this is a mother thing, you know, the chemicals on our brain or something, but I would like to. To know if you have been to this place where you just cannot write or you cannot find your creativity to work on jokes. What should I do? Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, thanks, Eva. I'm thrilled that people in Brazil are listening to podcasts. It makes me so happy. Yeah, that's definitely something people experience when they have kids or have like a, like a major life shift where they're either seeing life through a new lens or they're, or they're so obligated by something in their personal lives that they don't have oxygen to breathe or, or to, to. To write things down or to be creative. And I think, like, my, my suggestion is always to write down precisely how you feel without any filter of how it could be comedy, how it could be a play, how it could be a movie, or whatever it is. Just write down exactly how you feel. And so the thing that you're. Even the thing you're saying, like, I'm feeling frustration. I can't. I'm not feeling creative. I'm not feeling. It's like, write that and see what that leads to. And just be really specific and be really honest with your notebook, knowing that you don't have to share that with anybody, but just put it down in as brutally and honest way as you possibly can. Because what I found is, and this definitely happened with the old man in the pool and the new one and the good life, where the more honest you are with this anonymous notebook that only you will ever see, the more you'll find that you actually are able to share some of the things as you go. Oh, if I leave out this person's name and I leave out this, then it's just the emotion of it and the funny part of it. And it doesn't betray this person in my life. It doesn't betray, you know, that person in my life. And actually I could make something of that. So I would say, like, don't think about the genre that is comedy. Just think about who you are as a human being and how you feel and go from there. All right. Hey, Mike, my question is, what piece of advice do you have now that you wish you had when you were younger, you know, younger comic, starting out and stand up. Thank you. That's from T. Edward Strinsky. Thanks for the question. My advice for you as a younger comic is try more things. Like, try more types of jokes. Try more jokes. Like, the other thing is like, I always think about this is, you know, comedians, they end up with like, a lot of times comedians starting out, they end up with like 10 minutes of material that works. And they'll have that for years and years and years. And you know, they'll try to write more jokes. But I actually think a lot of times if a joke works, they'll stop writing that joke because they're like, oh, it works. But my piece of advice for that is like always like, like go in harder on that joke. The joke that's working. Just go further. What, like, what is it about that joke that's connecting with people so much? Like, it's, it must be something like you might be like, you think you're onto something. You might be onto something much bigger than you realize, like this. You know, you might have a two minute joke. That joke might be 60 minutes. That joke might be a show. And so that would be my piece of advice is probe, probe, probe on stuff that works. One last question from Andy J. Pizza.

[Andy J. Pizza]

Hey, Mike. Author, illustrator, Andy J. Pizza here. I'm not starting out in comedy, but I do a lot of public speaking, and I find when I'm trying to be funny, it doesn't sound like me, and it's not funny. But when I try to just act naturally or react naturally, my unique perspective is much funnier. And I imagine early on in a comedian's journey, trying to be funny is a really hard habit to break. So my question to you is, how did you break out of this early on of, like, trying too hard? And then also, if you find yourself writing and you're trying too hard to be funny, how do you break out of that trap?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thanks.

[Andy J. Pizza]

Love the show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I would say a couple things. I mean, one is, you know, I took improv classes, you know, when I was in my 20s, and. And I. I highly recommend them. You know, we had Liz Allen on, and she actually even does zoom improv classes, and. And I've recommended them to friends who love them. So I would. I would look up Liz Allen if you're interested in that. I think improv, it teaches you to kind of listen and respond. And I think that that type of humor is something I really respond to, and I feel like takes you out of the headspace of, like, oh, I have to be funny. There's actually no. You just have to be present. You just have to respond and exist and be there. And the humor that you exude, like, will come through in that if you're just listening and responding. You know, one thing I always say to young comics is, like, when you're on stage, you're actually just trying to convey an idea. You're not really trying to memorize the exact lines and then say the exact lines. You're just trying to convey a comedic idea that you had in your head. And my director, Seth Barish, and I always say, like, you know, before our shows, just, like, just tell the story. Just get out there and tell the story. Because I do get nervous sometimes before the show's like, wait, does this make sense? Does this make sense? It's like, well, just get up and tell the story. I mean, I think stories are inherently funny if. I think if you're telling the honest version of that story. So that's gonna do it for another episode of Working It Out. Thank you for all your questions. Thank you for listening to the podcast. I mean, at this point, we're approaching 200 episodes. It's been five years. I can't thank you enough for watching the special, listening to the podcast, and in today. Give me all these fantastic questions and we got another exciting episode next week. See you then.