Mike (2:11)

Ladies and gentlemen, as always, it's both an honor and pleasure to welcome my next guest back to the podcast. He was back or he was here way back. Episode 45 In 2019, former Marine Raider veteran, founder of the Raider Project, founder of Agogi, which is a fitness and personal development coaching for men. We're going to dive heavy into co founder of Johnny Slicks, which is a men's organic grooming products company, author of Excommunicated Warrior, which we covered in depth on the last show. And he's the host of the Nick Cum Lazzo show. Ladies and gentlemen, the last time you were here, you had way better hair, but welcome to the stage, Nick Cum Lazos.

Nick Cum Lazzo (2:50)

Thanks for having me, Mike.

Mike (2:51)

So first question is A, what happened to the hair and B, was it difficult coming out to your parents?

Nick Cum Lazzo (2:59)

First question. You know that happened during COVID when the gym got raided.

Mike (3:04)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (3:05)

And I was going on the news and stuff and you know, I felt like, you know, John, John Rambo, like they drew first blood. Like I just wanted to be left alone, man. I was just doing my thing, living my life. And you know, they poked the bear and. And because I was doing so much legal stuff and I was like, all right, let me clean it up a little bit. But then that turned into like because of Jiu Jitsu and everything, and I was like, now there's no way it's going ever coming back.

Mike (3:26)

Yeah. Do you miss it? No, no, that's good.

Nick Cum Lazzo (3:29)

Not at all.

Mike (3:29)

That's a much cleaner look. Plus with the Johnny Slicks, I imagine you kind of have to have to have a.

Nick Cum Lazzo (3:34)

Honestly, it comes down to probably Jiu Jitsu the most.

Mike (3:36)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (3:36)

It's like I'm not dealing with.

Mike (3:38)

Did you try it with like.

Nick Cum Lazzo (3:39)

I started with long hair.

Mike (3:40)

Yeah, I started.

Nick Cum Lazzo (3:42)

And that, that's, you know, I started in 2019 and then of course covet happened. The gym got raided in April, I believe. And then that was pretty much it from there.

Mike (3:51)

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, you know, I think we had both messed with Jiu Jitsu a little bit before then, but both started training not long after. Or maybe you were already training when you were on the first time. Maybe not. But I think I had just started. Yeah, same here. Like I'd kind of just. Just gotten into it. And you're a newly minted brown belt, if I saw correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (4:15)

44 year old Brown belt. That's just like the caveat's the age.

Mike (4:20)

Yeah, yeah. I mean that's a fairly quick. I mean, not like surprisingly quick, but you know, it seems like usually it's.

Nick Cum Lazzo (4:29)

I feel like. Yeah, I felt like it was quick. But the only thing is the thing that I have to remember is most. The most hobbyist train twice a week. Yeah, I mean I'm training four or five times a week. Plus I've, you know, been very blessed to meet a lot of like some of the top people in the world. Yeah. And I get to go train with them all the time. Tom the Blast is one of them. You know, the. All the guys at Origin camp, you know, it just. So I've had. I've been blessed to have a lot of very talented people kind of pour into me, which is helped immensely.

Mike (5:03)

Well, yeah, I mean, I. I appreciate you saying that, and. But I also think, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, some guys get almost like. Like they. They feel undeserving of. Of being promoted.

Nick Cum Lazzo (5:18)

Oh, yeah.

Mike (5:19)

100%, like the imposter syndrome kind of thing. But there's an element of that that I don't think most people think of it. It's almost disrespectful to your coach, though, you know, Cuz to me, like, you either trust your coach enough to promote you when he feels you're ready. Like, if you don't, then you shouldn't train with it.

Nick Cum Lazzo (5:35)

Yeah, I can't. I can't talk as much as I have. Might have imposter syndrome. Freaking Tom to Blast gave me a brown belt.

Mike (5:42)

Yeah. It's like, he wouldn't give it to you if he didn't think you were ready.

Nick Cum Lazzo (5:45)

Right. And if I say something, like, publicly, he would be like, you think I'm an idiot.

Mike (5:49)

You don't trust me?

Nick Cum Lazzo (5:50)

Yeah, he did. I will say I posted a video of me rolling with a good friend of mine, Nick Weglund, at the Gogi Brotherhood retreat, and I posted a clip of it. And I. I'll be honest, man. I don't think it was. Three seconds after that clip was posted, he was whatsapping me, yelling me about stupid white belt moves. He's like. He's like, that's the dumbest white belt I've ever seen in my entire life. I'm like, whoa. Okay. Okay. I won't ever do that again.

Mike (6:14)

Taking your belt back?

Nick Cum Lazzo (6:16)

Yeah.

Mike (6:16)

Do you have a favorite submission or one you're most successful with? I don't know.

Nick Cum Lazzo (6:21)

I don't know if I want to put that out on the Internet, honestly. Yes. But there's. It. I think it goes through times, like, so, like, right now, I'm working on and coaching several of our guys on a. On a pass that's basically like. It's a. It's a neon belly setup that goes to a north south, that transitions to a Kimura, which also goes to the side. Like, a lot of different things. Arm bars, you know, shoulder locks, different things. But I've been perfecting this one singular move that I just Hit in a circle over and over and over. Makes people annoyed.

Mike (6:56)

Yeah, yeah. Imagine. Do you compete at all still? I mean, I know you did a little bit, right?

Nick Cum Lazzo (7:01)

I did. And then life got, work got. I'm getting. I'm starting to get the itch to compete. I definitely want to compete at brown belt. I don't want to get promoted to brown black belt and then go compete.

Mike (7:16)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (7:17)

Because now you're a white belt again and the guy you're competing against has been a black belt for 10 years. So I, I am. But you know, like with anything, if I'm going to compete, I want to dedicate time and I want to train for it. Right. I'm not doing it just to do it. I want to do it to win for sure. You know, and so that's. So it's been a little bit hard because my focus has been so much on business and life that it's just not allowed me the singularity of focus on, you know, just training.

Mike (7:51)

Right. Yeah, yeah. I'm there with you. What's the last full book that you've read?

Nick Cum Lazzo (7:58)

Four Agreements.

Mike (8:00)

Is that one that you reread often?

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:02)

Actually, I just. That was the first time that I read.

Mike (8:04)

Oh really?

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:05)

The one that I reread the most often is As a man thinketh that's James Allen.

Mike (8:11)

Yeah, yeah, I have that in, in my office next door actually.

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:15)

I.

Mike (8:16)

It's kind of one of those like. Not that I read it on the. But it's more like at my desk.

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:21)

I. Right.

Mike (8:22)

Find myself looking at it often, you know. But yeah, it's such, such favorite book though, story wise.

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:28)

Probably the Alchemist.

Mike (8:29)

Really?

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:29)

Yeah.

Mike (8:30)

What. What's your biggest takeaway from it?

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:33)

Oh man. The story. The.

Mike (8:36)

The.

Nick Cum Lazzo (8:37)

The being. Being kind of addicted to the journey of things and what you learn across the journey. Like the, the biggest thing that I think that I, I personally had to realize and everyone needs to realize is there is no point of arrival, there's no destination that you're getting. You think there is, but the goalpost keeps moving. And so, you know, young, what was named Santiago, he was really addicted to, to this. He started to learn that everything that he was learning as he was going through this journey was all the tools that he needed to become the alchemist. Right. Quote unquote. But it was the journey that was everything and everything he learned across the way. And sometimes we get so fixated and so do I on this, like end result because we're mission oriented, like we're going to train for this. We're going to do it, we're going to do this mission and then we're going to accomplish the mission. And I think the true mission now, the true mission in life is walking the yellow brick road. Yeah. That is, that is the only thing that there is because when you get to the point of destination, you realize it's a false summit and there's another, there's 10 more mountains behind it that you have to go.

Mike (9:45)

I think that's such an integral part of human nature where there's this weird almost dichotomy, I think, with never being satisfied.

Nick Cum Lazzo (9:56)

Right.

Mike (9:56)

You know, but I think that's, it'd be hard to argue that that's the reason or hard not to argue that that's the reason human beings still exist. Yeah. Because if you find yourself at whatever goal you, you achieve and you're like, okay, that's it, I'm good. It's like, where do you go from there? Nowhere. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a strange, strange mental balancing act, I think. But spring is here, which means most people are doing their spring cleaning, get new furniture, decluttering, refreshing the house. But there's one upgrade a lot of folks overlook and that's the mattress you've been sleeping on for the last 10 years. Helix sent me one of their mattresses to try. And I'll tell you the difference in my sleep has been real. No more waking up with a stiff back, no more night sweats, no more lying there staring at the ceiling at 2am I'm actually getting deep restorative sleep. And when you track your sleep at all, you'll see the numbers back it up. Helix ran a study where 82% of participants saw an increase in their deep SL sleep cycle. They're the most awarded mattress brand out there. They're tested and reviewed by Forbes, Wired, you name it. They've got a sleep quiz that matches you with the exact right mattress for how you sleep. You got free shipping straight to your door and a 120 night sleep trial and a limited lifetime warranty. Zero risk. Go to helixsleep.com mic drop for 20% off and that's site wide. That's helixsleep.com mic drop For 20% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after you check out so that they know that we sent you.

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Mike (12:33)

In that same vein, I mean, for you, do you struggle at all with almost being overstimulated, with too many things going on at the same time? If that's kind of your focus?

Nick Cum Lazzo (12:44)

So in the past, yes. And there's times that I do, you know, I'll do some morning, you know, reflecting and journaling and meditation to put myself back into like a parasympathetic mode because I will wake up and like the tightness of the chest and the shoulder, I'm like, holy shit, I got so much to do. But recently it's, it's been about if I'm doing this thing anyway, right, the myth of syphesis, the boulder is going to get pushed up the hill, like for the rest of eternity. I'm going to push, I'm going to go forward, I'm going to push this rock up the hill. So regardless, the rock's getting pushed. How I feel about it is a choice. I can enjoy it, I can be present with it, or I can be angry about it. And I think that so many of us get wrapped up into allowing our circumstances to dictate how we feel, you know, and it reminds me of the story of, was it Matthew when, when Jesus was in the boat with the sailors and they were. He was sleeping in the storm and, you know, he wasn't upset about the storm. He's upset about the fear of their storm. Like, what, what changes? What changes in this boat? There's a storm or no storm? What changes? Nothing. You still rode the damn boat. So I think that having the ability to not have our circumstances dictate how this feels is powerful. Yeah, it was like there's always going to be chaos there's always going to be a storm. How I let it affect me is my choice.

Mike (14:34)

Do you find yourself being grounded in faith that way?

Nick Cum Lazzo (14:39)

That is something that has been a very big unlock for me in the last six years. Chad Robichol, you know Chad. Oh yeah, yeah, he, he just came out. We did a military appreciation weekend out at the for Core medical group raising money for the foundation to help veterans with testosterone replacement therapy. And he spoke and he said something before we did the auction. He said something interesting and it was the same for me. I grew up as a believer. I, you know, grew up in a church, Episcopal pan as Robin Williams saying Catholic Light, you know, and. Iraq. I lost my faith. I lost it. I didn't believe in anything. And if I did believe in God, I was very angry because everybody was like, you know, we sit around like, oh, you know, protect our troops and you know, but I'm like looking at my friends that are dying and I'm like, so you'll protect other people but you're not going to protect this 21 year old stud that has a family and his whole life in front of him. So if there is a God, he's an asshole. And I couldn't rectify that in my head, how are we sitting around circling up, how's the chaplain circling around praying for our protection, that this creature in the, in the ethers in the sky is going to protect us. And then he doesn't, you know, and you know, it's always the great, it's always the good guys, it's always the greatest ones that die over there. And I couldn't wrap my head around that, couldn't wrap my heart around that. So it became a lot of anger. And it wasn't until probably the birth of my son in 2020 that I started to kind of feel something different and kind of, kind of solve this problem in my head. And the idea of free will, right, like we get free will, we get the freedom of choice is not the freedom of consequence. And did plant medicine. And there's, it's been this, it's a long journey, right? It's been a long journey of realizing that even if all the bad happens here, everything's going to be okay in the long run. There's a bigger, there's a bigger universe out there. There's a, there's a bigger existence out there. And I started to have this feeling of unconditional love and that's what gave me. And I don't have all the answers. I don't know, you Tell me, what's this? What's. I don't know. I don't know anything. I know what I feel. I know that there's a feeling in my heart of positivity, of unconditional love that's out there. And I also know the opposite of that. So for me, you know, I've worked so hard to develop myself, I've worked so hard to develop these businesses, to give a shit about people. And you can do all of that and you can be successful and you can have the family and you can have the money and you can have it all. And there will still be something lacking and there'll still be something to where you're struggling. And it wasn't until I kind of let that go and reconnected with having faith and knowing that. If God is the father, then as a father, you're a father, I'm a father. We love our children unconditionally. Even if they make bad choices and bad stuff happens to them, we love him unconditionally. And I think that was the biggest mental unlock for me. I was like, okay, so he wants to.

Mike (19:01)

He.

Nick Cum Lazzo (19:01)

So 1. God's not mad at you, right?

Mike (19:06)

Like any good father. I'm just disappointed. I'm not mad. I'm just not mad.

Nick Cum Lazzo (19:09)

I'm just disappointed. Right? But that's. That's really what it is, was for me was that I realized that he does want what's best for us and that. And that you can have all the success in the world and you'll still be empty. And it's not until you let go of that and have faith that this peace will come over you and you realize that no matter what, everything is going to be okay, no matter what. And I think that's where you're in the boat, the storm's happening, you're rowing. Anyway, how I choose to feel about it is up to me, right? I have faith that everything's going to be okay. And I think that's a. It's a powerful unlock because that's a snowball effect, right? You start thinking like that, well, all of a sudden things do start working out for you. I believe in the power of positivity. I believe in that what, what you speak manifests in your life. If you're constantly speaking negative, you're constantly thinking negative, you're surrounded by negative people, you're going to get more of that. I choose the inverse. Right.

Mike (20:17)

You know, it's interesting hearing you walk through that, because it was a very similar parallel for me, you know, I grew up pretty staunch Lutheran and even the first couple years in the military, I would have considered myself religious, whatever that means, but. And then deploying to Iraq and just, you know, years in the military, it gave me that exact same unappreciative attitude towards faith in general. You know, and it wasn't until quite, quite a number of years later, even several years, a number of years after both my kids were born, where I kind of went through the exact same process that you're describing, you know, and to the point of that, you know, power of positive thinking, you know, there's this, that snowball effect that you, that you speak to. I found that an equally integral part of that is appreciation. You know, Great gratitude.

Nick Cum Lazzo (21:13)

Yeah.

Mike (21:13)

Just being thankful for everything, even if it's something at face value or at first seems like a total kick in the nuts or a door being slammed in your face. We've all learned in business that, you know, sometimes something you think is working well and then, and then you have to pivot and whatever your solution was ends up being an enormous blessing in disguise. It's like, how many times does that have to happen before you realize that that's all of life, you know, is

Nick Cum Lazzo (21:42)

that there's, you don't know what good is and if there's no bad.

Mike (21:46)

Yeah. And I think that that's probably the single biggest hurdle that I got over with that, that attitude of why would you let this happen? You know, because I think being, for me at least, being a father at first actually made my, my faith weaker because I realized that unconditional love and felt it. You know, you can, you can speak to it or hear about it or think about it and rationalize it, but until you actually walk into it as a parent, I don't think you truly grasp it. I don't think you can.

Nick Cum Lazzo (22:18)

No, you can't.

Mike (22:19)

But what I found myself struggling with was, you know, to that free choice thing is that, you know, if one of my kids has a two by four with nails sticking out of it, getting ready to hit the other one, like I'm going to jump in.

Nick Cum Lazzo (22:31)

Right.

Mike (22:31)

There's no way I'm letting that happen, you know, and, and that. So that's kind of the point I'm trying to make of it actually made me struggle even further for a while until I kind of, you know, there was a number of things which would take me half the episode to walk through. I'll spare the audience maybe some other day, but, but just, you know, the kind of like being in any relationship, whether it's romantic, personal, business, whatever. Whatever is that, you know, making somebody be dedicated or loyal or respectful or whatever takes all of the value out of it, you know, and so to me, that was a big light bulb moment for me is that, you know, if God has the ability to make everything perfect, well, then it, it isn't perfect because there's not an alternative. You know, it's like good without the context of bad.

Nick Cum Lazzo (23:22)

You have zero thankfulness for gratitude for

Mike (23:24)

that because there's, there's no other choice but for it to be exactly what it should be. And so I appreciate you bringing that up. And again, I find it fascinating that it's, it's such a similar path. I think a lot of guys who have walked through similar paths have experienced that same type of journey, which is, which is fascinating. But from the last time you were on, obviously the transformation, like, I encourage everybody to just look at the thumbnail, you know, or any of the pictures posted back when we recorded last time. We both look quite a bit different, I think. But, but the transformation in you from that point until now is. I mean, you're almost unrecognizable. I think if you, if you saw your, your 2019 year old self next to you sitting here right now, you wouldn't believe it's the same person. Person.

Nick Cum Lazzo (24:15)

Not even close.

Mike (24:16)

I would love for you to kind of walk us through how, how that happened.

Nick Cum Lazzo (24:20)

So 2016 was the. It's funny you talk about the bad. 2016 was probably one of the worst years of my life. And that's where everything kind of came from that I wrote the book after that and then we had the podcast. 2019, 16 was the year that was like rock bottom. You're like bankruptcy, custody fights, getting slandered on the Internet, losing probably 90% of my circle business relationships because of the slander. Like, just rock bottom. But man, without that year, none of this would exist. And as you're talking about, there's no good without the bad. Like, look, I'm so thankful for that year because that year is what was the, was the inflection point that everything changed. So in 2019. So, like, that's when I like, started to get my shit together and kind of, you know, owned my shit, getting healthy, getting my mind right. I figured out the book stuff, wrote that book, started helping people there. But even in 2019, like, I was there, but I was still on the path. I'm on the path now, but I'm at the, I was way at the beginning of the path. And it just took some time for that to catch up. And you know, looking back at that guy now, he was, he was in it, he was on it. He just needed time to collapse to get to where I'm at today. And it has been talking about the faith stuff, the physical stuff, the health things, the hormones, everything that I've, you know, talked about on that podcast. But so many people think that this is going to turn around in three, six months to a year. Oh man, you, you need. It takes years. Like nothing happens overnight. No success. There's no success overnight. And then what is even that? What is success again? The goalpost is going to get moved. Am I done? Am I successful? Sure, I'm successful. Am I done? No, absolutely not. I'm a work in progress. I think that. And again, we go back to the original thing we were talking about is like, we're always striving if, if you're gonna get better at anything, you're always striving for a 10, but the reality is you're always going to be a nine. We never peak. And it has been an amazing journey, an amazing amount of failure over these last seven years. But. And I wouldn't change a bit. There's not one loss, there's not one failure that I would change because everything led me to sitting in this chair right now talking to you, and I would lean into every single bit of it all over again

Mike (27:32)

with that. Is there a failure or a couple failures that stand out as being the most pivotal for you?

Nick Cum Lazzo (27:49)

Every failure that I've had, I guess the biggest ones that are all internal to myself, there's not one singular event that I was like, I dropped the ball or I did this. The biggest failure or the biggest struggle. I know this is not the answer you're looking for. Is the amount of limiting beliefs and self doubt that I had in myself, how I saw myself, that was the biggest thing that I had to overcome.

Mike (28:24)

Was there a catalyst to being able to do that or was it a gradual process?

Nick Cum Lazzo (28:30)

It was a gradual process. It was reps. There was not one single thing that was like, oh, I believe in myself now. We are a sum of our traumas, events, things that people told us, parents, teachers, childhood. And if you think that you're going to course correct that in a single event, you're gravely mistaking. Just like with anything, it takes an enormous amount of repetition. Saying things over and over, just being grateful, just saying, I'm grateful even if I don't believe it, saying it over and over and over until it Becomes true. You know, talking about the faith stuff, like the power of prayer, Dr. Huberman said something about faith and prayer, and his experiment was this. He's like, you don't want to know how I believe in it. He's like, go pray not one time, but every day for 30 days, and then see how you feel at the end of 30 days. That was a huge unlock for me, because I remember I was like, oh, so faith and dealing with these limiting beliefs, dealing with the. The thought of I don't feel worthy is a rep thing, because you and I could do the physical stuff. You want to do hard, physical things? Okay. I will choose that any day of the week over hard physical things in here. So I can fight that. I can push through pain. But the war within your ears, that's the real battle. And it was little things like that that I started to realize that it was all the repetition of things and the words that came out of my mouth. And words have meaning, and I have to mean what I say, and I need to speak. So if they mean something and they manifest the future, they manifest my reality, then why would I not choose the very best words for myself? And so over this period of time, it wasn't a singular thing. Like, yeah, I dropped balls. And we could talk about, like, how one year the company didn't grow. You know what I mean? Like, we grow 100% almost every year, and then one year we grew by, like, 15%. Sure, I can talk about that. And how I put my foot off the gas and why the reasons were. That is. But that's not the real fight. The real fight was me thinking that I couldn't be successful, or if I did, I had to work 10 times harder than everybody else around me, or that I just wasn't worthy of success or I wasn't good enough. That is. That has been the biggest fight. That has been the biggest hurdle to come overcome with.

Mike (31:34)

With overcoming those things and kind of how that ties into the. The business success that you've had. Because from 2019 until now, like, I. I think you just started Johnny Slicks

Nick Cum Lazzo (31:48)

at that point, you were just over a year in.

Mike (31:51)

So there's that. There's the agogi stuff. There's other entrepreneur stuff. Was that a kind of a single element of the desire to do anything entrepreneurial, like, kind of being catapulted out of that battle between your ears and ultimately overcoming it, like, was that tied in or was it separate?

Nick Cum Lazzo (32:13)

It was 100 tied in, but me

Mike (32:17)

first, so I guess. So fixing that is what led you to want to do that?

Nick Cum Lazzo (32:22)

No, fixing me is what led to the success of the other things.

Mike (32:25)

Right.

Nick Cum Lazzo (32:26)

100.

Mike (32:27)

Yeah. So. So the. The overcoming that internal battle is what inspired you to want to get into business?

Nick Cum Lazzo (32:34)

No, no. 2014, I started my first business, got laid off my contracting job, and then realized that they took something that I did. And it was actually for Palantir of all places. Took something I did and my team built. And they. I found out the very next day after they let me go, they took our program and rolled it out to the entire company as like an sop.

Mike (33:00)

So you're on good terms with them at this point.

Nick Cum Lazzo (33:03)

They probably don't even know who I am.

Mike (33:06)

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Nick Cum Lazzo (34:16)

But when I learned that they did that and that I facilitated a team that built something so great that they rolled it out as an SOP for the company, I was like, well, if I can do that for them, I can do it for myself. I had a job offer from another company. It was a Wexford group. I don't know if they're still around almost the same the next day or that week making just as much money. And I turned it down because I said, if I can do that for somebody else, I can do it for myself. Now my idiot self, that I could do it in a year took me a decade, but nonetheless, so I started my first business in 2014, and then I just failed forward from then until 2018. My first business was, in my opinion, my first great, great failure.

Mike (35:06)

What business was that?

Nick Cum Lazzo (35:07)

Survival and tactical systems. So I did what every, every team guy does, is think that the only thing that I can. That I have value of is to teach training and consulting. So I created a training consulting company. And my wife actually saw me on the range one time, and she goes, this is when we first met. Like, my eyes were glazed over. And she's like, you look miserable. She's like, do you even like doing this? And I was like, no, I hate this. Like, what else am I gonna do?

Mike (35:38)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (35:39)

And she was like, you know, you're, like, capable of so much. I'm like, what are you talking about? This is it. I'm a team guy. And it wasn't until, you know, going down that road that I, you know, but the one thing I'll say about myself is I've always pushed forward. No matter what, I've always just pushed forward. And that business turned into another one, which turned into another one. At one point, we had seven different businesses. We closed some down, we exited a couple, you know, not big exits, but, you know, we sold them, made money. But all of those is what led me to the ones that really took off in 2018. Like, that's what started the agogi. That's what started. That's what got me to Johnny Slicks. That's what got me into Core Medical Group. And it all happened around 2018.

Mike (36:31)

From a mentality standpoint, at 2018, were you still. I mean, you're always battling internally to a certain extent, but I feel like there's a crest that you. That you get over. Were you at that point then?

Nick Cum Lazzo (36:43)

Yeah, 2018 was the. Was the pivotal year. Yeah. I was like, I'm worked. We're going all in on me.

Mike (36:52)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (36:53)

Like, I'm going to unfuck this. I 2016, I realized that I was the problem. And then from 2016 to 2018 was, like, figuring that out and then working on the business. And so in 2018, it wasn't luck that things happened. It was like opportunity started to meet the prepared. I had all these failures that I'd fucked up everything else. I fucked up my relationship. I had done dumb shit. And I was like, it's time to be a man. It's time to be a man, own my shit and get this fixed and become the version of man that God created me to be. That was. That was the decision Point of when everything started to change, but it was, it was having to look in the mirror and be like, who do you want to be? Who were you created to be? Are you this guy? Are you the guy that drinks and has self doubt and it's overweight and that is broken? Is that your, is that who you are or are you something better? And I just knew, I knew I was created for more. And it doesn't mean that I like had all the solutions. I just had just made the decision that I was done.

Mike (38:16)

Yeah, it's neat to see and I mean the different businesses that you're involved in now, at least from an outsider looking in, seem all kind of like they're, they're hinging off of or they're kind of dovetailed into the principles that you learned about yourself. You know, the core medical group is a huge part of it. Obviously the agogi stuff, the mentality, the kind of warrior within. And I'd love for you to kind of speak to the, the core principles that you adhere to within that organization. But even the Johnny Slick stuff, I mean some people may scoff at first, but there, there's a million studies just like with self belief how you, how you look. Not to say that you need to wear Gucci flip flops and like spend a ton of money on clothes and stuff, but giving a, about your appearance, you know, has a level of value similar to how you think about yourself.

Nick Cum Lazzo (39:12)

I think it affects your self worth.

Mike (39:14)

For sure it does. You know, I mean like there's, well there's a ton of experiments where you know, like homeless people get these makeovers and, and just like they don't, they don't, they don't look like a different person just because of the aesthetic aspect. Like they carry themselves different, they smile, they talk more like they feel better about themselves. Like there is a link to that, you know, the external and even kind of in the transverse. I've seen some studies, especially with women where they would do like makeup artists would put scars on. Have you heard of these? Yeah. So they would like makeup artists would put like movie style scarring and injuries and shit all over their face and would tell them, okay, now we're going to interview you. Right? And right before they would do it, they'd say, hey, I want to touch a few things up. And they would take it all off and then they would interview them and, and they would do these like side by side comparisons and when they thought their face was fucked up, like they had horrible self esteem and like the the way that they thought about themselves, the way, way they interviewed, the way that they're all themselves completely different.

Nick Cum Lazzo (40:17)

Different. Yeah.

Mike (40:18)

And that's what I think is neat, is when I look at, you know, kind of those three core businesses that you have, they're all woven in with each other in three different ways. You know, you got the, between the ears, the hormone part and the physical aspect. And is that something that was intentional or did you just, did it just kind of happen that way?

Nick Cum Lazzo (40:38)

I don't think it was intentional. I think that it was a natural evolution of my growth and my core values. So if I'm going to drive these three things. Right. They all, they all start with your core values. And if my core values of. Are one of discipline and authenticity and vulnerability and accountability, then they're going to pour into those businesses as well. You know, Johnny Slicks is. At the end of the day, the product is hair pomade and soap. How does that pour into it? Well, to me, I'm like, I'm looking at this American flag. I'm sitting in here with you like we're an American made company and we just had our eighth, we just had our eighth anniversary and that's what I told everybody. I said, John and I made a decision, made a decision that one. We weren't putting crap in our bodies. That biggest organ in your body is your skin and what do we use? And these people are. And we got a cease and desist over talking about this. But I'm an American. My first amendment right. You have companies that are selling products that are, that are causing cancer. And that same, that same company is providing the chemo treatment for that cancer. That's evil, man. That is freaking evil. John's analogy for that is like you giving me $5 to punch you in the eye and then, and then selling you an ice pack for $5 as well.

Mike (42:12)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (42:13)

Like it's just sick. And then on top of that, so like we chose to go an all organic route because we want, we put this stuff on our kids, we put this stuff on our, on our, on our bodies. And it doesn't have hormone disruptors. You know what I mean? You're not, you're not messing up your hormones, you're not messing up your, your health. But even more than that, to me, this is where 1. It smells freaking great. And it'll get you laid. Let's, let's just start there, right? If nothing else, if nothing else, you will get laid. And we have proof that it will happen. Yeah, their money back yeah, that's, that's the, that's the real sell of Johnny Slicks is it will get you laid. But the reality is this, man, like, we were told to outsource everything. We could outsource manufacturing, we could outsource everything. And I could just be at the house running spreadsheets and marketing. How does that benefit America? It doesn't. So. Because they did the math, because of what we did in 2025, we put food on the table for over 600 families. We paid over 13 million in mortgages and rent. Wow. Like, it just. And it goes and it in. I thought of it, I forgot how much it was. But twenty something, thousand something people chose America over something else. And what I mean by that is every single time that you buy a bottle of body wash from Johnny Slicks, every single cent stays right here in America. Every cent. I mean, you're feeding families, you're paying rent, you're buying gas, and it's all staying right here. It circles right here in our economy and all the people's jobs. I mean, you got to think we have, we have 30 employees just in Johnny six alone. Direct employees. And then you got all of our vendors right. That are all American made. You're talking over 400 people there, all because we buy their ingredients. All those companies are, are being able to take care of their people. So there's just like this huge trickle effect that happens because somebody chose to buy one bottle of body wash. And it might sound silly, but, like, that's the effect, right?

Mike (44:31)

Yeah, I think it's great. I mean, I have taken a similar approach with the things that I have going on. You know, I think that's important. And I think, you know, if you think back to the 80s and 90s when, you know, manufacturing, like 90% of manufacturing of products was still here in the United States. I think there's a level of patriotism and kind of community pride that existed. I know, like, for me growing up in Iowa, John Deere is everything there.

Nick Cum Lazzo (45:00)

Yeah.

Mike (45:00)

Both of my parents worked there. My dad for over 40 years, my mom for over 20. And you know, like most of the, the towns that are of, of any relevant size. Now, this is Iowa, which has a total population of 3 million statewide. So the towns are smaller, but there's, you know, a manufacturing plant for John Deere somewhere. And most people's dads or parents work there. And there's just a sense of, of community that you're John Deere people. Yeah, that rarely exists anywhere in America anymore. I mean, there's still some of it, but it's. And to me, like, this is kind of the 2.0 version of that, I think, you know, and I, I, you know, to me, that's what. From. From a fabric of America standpoint like that, that's what it's about, you know, and. And I think there's. I don't think you can overstate the principle that you're talking about, how important it is.

Nick Cum Lazzo (45:47)

It's just. Let's just go back to giving a. About each other.

Mike (45:51)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (45:51)

Like, I don't care about your. Our differences, care about our similarities. Like, it just comes down to, like, giving shit about people. And I just. I think it's. I feel. I feel incredibly grateful that I get to be in a position to do that. Yeah.

Mike (46:08)

So obviously, the Johnny Slick stuff, I'd love for you to talk about the agoge stuff, because kind of internally, the same type of things apply, but for the individual that we're talking about, from a business standpoint, was there a singular catalyst that led to wanting to start that or was that gradual also?

Nick Cum Lazzo (46:26)

So in my own. It was. It was. There was a singular catalyst on this one. When I got my stuff together and I got, like, my health, my physical fitness, like, I lost all the weight and all the thing from transitioning out of the military and all the dumb stuff that, you know, goes on in your head and you have to figure out. That's all in the book. We've, We've. We talked about that on the, on the first podcast, guys started reaching out to me, saying, hey, I struggle with the same thing that, that you did. Could you help me? And I started. I was like, oh, wow, maybe I can help these guys. So it started out with fitness and nutrition. It's like, well, you just got to eat better and train better. So my teammate, Josh Hansberger and I, like, put this program together, and we started trying to help people, but it just wasn't happening. It. I. I'm like, bro, just eat your protein. Like, what. What's the problem? Like, why can't you just, like, it's like 250 grams of protein. Just eat it and then go lift every day. And it's. It's not overly complicated. Very quickly, we realized that. That most people, most men don't have a fitness and nutrition problem. They have a mindset problem. They have a trauma problem. And. And that was my problem too. Like, I realized. I was like, why didn't have a fitness nutrition problem? I had a mindset issue. I had a trauma issue. And so we started to, we started to address that. And this is, this is, this is what's really hard. And people talk a lot of about coaching, they talk a lot of about men's communities, they talk a lot of about, you know, whatever. But the reality is this, and this statistic stays true every single time that we run an event. Every single time I get men together and I get them vulnerable. One in three men were physically abused as a child. I'm one of them.

Mike (48:25)

One in three.

Nick Cum Lazzo (48:26)

One in three.

Mike (48:27)

That's staggering.

Nick Cum Lazzo (48:29)

From the age of five to 11, I was physically abused by a stepfather. One in four men were sexually assaulted as a child. One in four men were sexually assaulted as a child. And that statistic rings true every single time that I get guys together. Still to this day. Just ran a brotherhood retreat in Kona, Hawaii where we had up, I think about 15 guys out there actually was more than one in four. And so we wonder why guys, men do not live up to their own expectations or why they keep falling off that they'll start a project or they'll start a workout program. This goal, whatever the goal is, I'm going to start being a better dad, I'm going to start being a better husband, I'm going to save money, I'm going to do this. Whatever the goal, what are, the objective is for you? And they're constantly backsliding, falling off, restarting. And it's because they haven't dealt with the trauma that's created, the limiting beliefs and the self doubt and they haven't dealt with that inner critic in their own head. And it all stems from that. We had a guy that brought something up. He's in his 50s. That's the first time he ever spoke about it. Wow. And this thing has been holding weight over him for 40 something years. And it's affected how he is, he was as a father, he's affected how he was as a business owner, he's affected how he was as a husband. And it affected himself. And it took him till his 50s. It took him to us coming up with us with a group of 15 dudes sitting around having a conversation for him to just go like, yeah, this is what happened to me. And first time he's ever spoke, his own wife didn't know about it.

Mike (50:25)

Yeah. Was he emotional sharing that?

Nick Cum Lazzo (50:29)

Yeah. I mean it gets, it can get emotional, it can. But I mean at this point it's very like the way that we, we run, the way that we run these things. It's, it's very it's set up in a very good way that it's a. There's a very easy, positive outlet for it. So it doesn't have to be. It can be if it is, but it doesn't have to be. It's just. This is the. This is the fact. It's just a fact. And the problem is so many men are dealing with something like that, and they don't realize the damage that it's causing in their life.

Mike (51:05)

What is the agogi approach to working through that once it's shared?

Nick Cum Lazzo (51:18)

I have this thing that I almost make a joke out of it that I can take shit and turn it into an apple pie because that's a shit situation. If you're sexually assaulted as a child, one like pedophiles need to be eradicated from this planet. Right. Like this just. This is the worst of the worst. And now all the stuff that's coming out now, which. Yeah.

Mike (51:45)

I mean, it seems like you've been

Nick Cum Lazzo (51:46)

talking about it for years. Yeah.

Mike (51:47)

I mean, it seems like over half the government is filled with them.

Nick Cum Lazzo (51:50)

Yeah. You know, in Hollywood. Yeah. So just absolutely horrendous, right? Just absolutely horrendous. But the reality is, is that is something that happened to someone that wasn't your choice. Right. It was something that happened to you, and it doesn't have to have power over you. One of the. Some of the best guys that we have in the agogi right now that have experienced that and then transitioned to the other side have turned it into their superpower because they've made a choice that we're. One, they're not going to hide in the dark. And they. Two, they make sure that it doesn't happen to other people. And if it has some, they help them as well. I think the biggest problem that men have is we don't talk about it for the fear of shame, the fear of somebody looking at a certain way. But the reality is, is when I'm vulnerable and I say, this happened to me, I don't want it to happen to anybody else. And if you. If it happened to you too, then I want you to be okay as well. I think that takes the sting out of it. I think it takes the power away from it. And it gives permission, not that they need it, but it gives permission to other men to go, oh, yeah, that happened to me too.

Mike (53:11)

Do you find that.

Nick Cum Lazzo (53:13)

That.

Mike (53:13)

That is the hurdle is. Is just coming to terms and. And putting words to it that helps people overcome it?

Nick Cum Lazzo (53:21)

I think. I think that is the hurdle. I think that we all think that we're special butterflies and that this has only happened to me. No one else is dealing with this. It's like the veteran thing too. It's like I'm. I'm in my own dark hole that no one else feels the way that I feel. When the reality is you get a. Guys. You get guys vulnerable in a room together and they're all dealing with the same shit. We're just too prideful or too much of an ego to be able to talk about it. Because what, you're gonna look at me differently? I don't give a shit like that. If that you want to unlock, stop giving a. What other people think. Yeah. Be you. Be your authentic self. Watch. Watch the impact that you can make in people's lives. And I'm not saying, like through this or video or social media.

Mike (54:06)

No.

Nick Cum Lazzo (54:06)

In your house, in your community, at your church, at your work. These guys that have done that and been. And then been more open about what has happened to them on the back end of that, you're talking about guys in their own office that are coming to them in tears going, dude, I saw that and I saw your post. And that happened to me. I thought I was the only one. And I thought, I've been dealing with this for 20 years. And you would never think. The people you surround yourself, you would never think. And that's why I. It. You know, that's why I talked about. Like, you get a lot of shit about coaching, but, man, like, there's this thin layer of. On society that everybody is on top of that just. Just thinks everything is hunky dory and everything is fine. And you just scratch that layer just a little bit. And there's a lot of people in pain. There's a lot of people hurting. A lot of people in pain. A lot of people not living up to who they want to be because of this stuff.

Mike (54:59)

Yeah. From. Excuse me. From the. The moment of verbalizing it. Like, is there a. Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (55:08)

You turn it into positive affirmations. You turn it in from a toxic cognition to a. To a toxic belief into a positive one, I guess.

Mike (55:17)

How do you do that, though?

Nick Cum Lazzo (55:20)

In. In words, just how. Like I. Okay, so here's, here's. Here's an example. Have you ever talked about the hero and villain story? The difference between the hero and the villain? You know, Joker and Batman. I'm a nerd. Love Joker and Batman. Joker, you know, same parents died, maybe he was abused, whatever. Basically same background as Batman. Right. Joker goes, I am. You know, I Felt this pain. I want to make sure everybody else feels the pain. Batman goes, I felt this pain. I want to make sure nobody else feels it again. It's just a choice. So, like, the guys that have really come in on the other side of it, one of the guys that works for me in Johnny Slicks, something happened to him. Now, he talks about it publicly, but so he helps other people. He's like, you know, honestly, he's like, because this happened to me. Not that I wish it happened to anybody else, but I don't. I don't go, I wish it never happened to me. He goes, it happened. Can't change that. I wouldn't change it. Because now I'm the man that I am today, and I'm able to help other men transition to the same thing. I'm not a sum of. I'm not a sum of. This. This one singular event that happened to me. It didn't define me, didn't break me.

Mike (56:36)

Would I know you guys focus on men primarily? Does your wife do or are there components? Is there a distinction between men and women? Having experienced that, where it's handled differently because of sex?

Nick Cum Lazzo (56:50)

I think there. I mean, obviously there's. Men and women are very different. Right? Obviously, things that happen to women. I'm not a woman, obviously, so I don't. I don't want to pretend that, like, I know how to help them the best way. I mean, I. I've had some amazing women clients over. Over the years, and there are a lot. There are some similarities, but they are cut from different cloth. We're. We're wired differently. There's a great book that, that outlines it. A guy who wrote it, but the Way of the Superior man, and he really outlines the difference of the different core needs between men and women. My wife has been super instrumental in not just helping me, but helping in the, you know, behind the scenes with Ugogi in the direction and kind of really allowing me to be open and honest, giving me that permission. And then she also coaches women on the. On. On her side as well. But they are very different, and they do require different tools getting to the same destination and the same reasons, but the tools are different.

Mike (58:02)

Yeah.

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Mike (59:33)

Is that something? Does your wife have a similar program for women that you do for a man?

Nick Cum Lazzo (59:37)

Not similar. She's, you know, in the future, I mean she's the CMO for, for Johnny Slick. So that, you know, plus we just had you got another baby. So that, that throws a wrench in things. But that is the goal post. Johnny Slicks is. It will be, it will be her and I kind of full force into the agogi doing this for.

Mike (59:58)

That's awesome, man. I mean the impact that you have with, with all of your companies and just kind of who you are and what you present to the world is, is inspiring, man. I'm super proud of you. It's, it's an amazing journey.

Nick Cum Lazzo (60:10)

So to kind of go back to your question on like what do you do is somebody gets abused, they feel unloved, they feel unworthy. So to change that is literally the repetition of one I love myself, I am worthy. And then saying that over and over again until you believe it and then surrounding yourself with people that reinforce that idea. And if you don't, if you're not surrounding yourself with the people that support you and reinforce that thought process, you need to change your circle. And so in the agogi we created that environment.

Mike (60:52)

Yeah, that's a, an integral component for sure. I mean I've kind of noticed that at each decade, basically the friends you have versus not. I'm curious for you, in that 2016 to say 2020 period, did you go through a total friend transformation of losing a lot of friends that you had, gaining new Ones Or. Or was it not that.

Nick Cum Lazzo (61:12)

I say the circle got smaller.

Mike (61:14)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (61:14)

From 2018. From then to 2018, the circle started to get real tight. Yeah. And it's gotten even tighter.

Mike (61:20)

Yeah. I think that's such an important aspect that loyalty, I think, plays a role. Just change kind of is. Is tough sometimes for. And uncomfortable for a lot of people is a factor.

Nick Cum Lazzo (61:35)

But, Mike, if you're going through something, how much easier is it to go through it when you've got 200 men going rooting for you?

Mike (61:45)

Well, as a Jedi, I don't need it. But no, I mean, even that. I don't remember who said it. It's been, I think, probably overused, but it's that, you know, who are the five? Show me the people you spend or the five people you spend the most time around, and I'll show you what kind of person you are. I mean, there's so much to that. Whether it's five or ten, whatever. Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (62:05)

I say the same thing. I'm like, you got. You got five friends that are millionaires. You're gonna be the six. You got five dads that are fit. You're gonna be the sixth.

Mike (62:12)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (62:12)

It's just the way that it goes.

Mike (62:13)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (62:14)

It's power of osmosis. But that was the biggest thing is most men don't have that. So when they come in here, they go through these, they go through the retreat, they process all this BS and they come out the other side. Now they have entire group of people that are, like, rooting for them. Most men don't have other men rooting for him.

Mike (62:30)

That's awesome. Does Agogi have like a post seminar or retreat kind of network where you guys. Whether it's.

Nick Cum Lazzo (62:39)

Yeah, we. We meet. We meet three times a week.

Mike (62:41)

Oh, really?

Nick Cum Lazzo (62:41)

Yeah.

Mike (62:42)

Like a zoom kind of thing.

Nick Cum Lazzo (62:43)

Yeah, yeah, we meet. We meet three times a week. I do. I do one of the calls which is more on, you know, family, business, life. Then we have, like, a human performance call. Then we have the community that one of our coaches run called the Men of Faithful Action. And that's this. That's the faith and spiritual side.

Mike (63:01)

That's super cool, man.

Nick Cum Lazzo (63:03)

Yeah.

Mike (63:04)

How is it like an hour three times a week or hour three times a week? I mean, that's a hell of a time dedication.

Nick Cum Lazzo (63:10)

It is. And it's. And they're all recorded, so, like, you know, not everybody can make it, but they're all recorded in the log. So I've got. We have literally those calls. That amount of calls we have recorded since 2018. Wow. If you could figure out how to take all those videos and put them into an AI repository.

Mike (63:30)

I think you could. I mean, yeah, for sure you could. You could have. I know there's programs that AI could condense it and readers digest it into a, you know, however long or short of a synopsis you want.

Nick Cum Lazzo (63:42)

Yeah. Hell of a book.

Mike (63:43)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (63:43)

Maybe that's the next book you should.

Mike (63:45)

I mean, it'd be easy too. I mean, especially like with all the personal assistant. Chatbot or not chatbot, but agents they call AI agents. I mean the stuff that's coming out with that is, is crazy with stuff.

Nick Cum Lazzo (63:59)

So we'll meet. Yeah. So we'll do the retreats. Got another one coming in July in Surf City. It's almost full. And then, and then 30 days after that, we'll do just the retreat, guys. We'll do like a recap on that. Seeing how. Because they, you know, you come up on a high, like you're all stoked, you're like, oh my God, this weight is lifted off of me. But then life, you go back to life.

Mike (64:19)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (64:20)

And you got to deal with all that and you got to utilize the tools that you learned to be able to change your life. So we do it. We do make sure there's like a 30 day recap of like, hey, how are you guys doing outside of the normal three times a week. So it is a huge time commitment. But the thing is, let me talk

Mike (64:35)

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Nick Cum Lazzo (66:27)

When you, when you're dealing with like, I'll use one guy, Steve, I know he doesn't mind me bringing him up. Guy was 350 pounds, alcoholic, like a wreck of a life, just a wreck of a life. Now he's 54, he's a blue belt in jiu jitsu. His business is debt free. He's making more money than he ever has and he's working less than he ever has. And he goes and fights 25 year olds on the mats.

Mike (67:02)

That's incredible.

Nick Cum Lazzo (67:03)

And he's got abs. 350 to abs.

Mike (67:06)

Yeah.

Nick Cum Lazzo (67:07)

The guy is a savage. Now, is he perfect? No. But like, that guy was knocking on death's door. He had no relationship with his family, no relationship with his kids. His life is completely different. He's a different human being. And when you, when, when a guy like that hugs your neck and is in tears saying, thank you for saving my life, and I'm like, first of all, I didn't save it. You saved it. I just gave you the platform to be able to do. So that's when I go, oh, this is worth it. Yeah, this is. There's not enough. There's not enough. And it's, it's. And I feel blessed to be able to do this because, because I have Johnny Slicks. Because, you know, I'm successful outside of that. I have the ability to be able to do this, man. That's, that's what means everything. To have a group of guys that go that are like, crushing it in their life, professionally, crushing it in, in their marriages, becoming a better dad. Watching the relationship with their kids, kids and the father grow and them get like them get closer. Dude, this is what life is really about, right? That's what. That's. That's the meat.

Mike (68:20)

Stay tuned for part two.

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