S8 Ep.3: Hunting Grounds

Summary

Mind of a Monster: The Cross-Country Killer

Episode 3: Hunting Grounds

Release Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Dr. Michelle Ward
Guests: Detective Jeff Bell, researcher Josh Hallmark, and army buddy Nate Lessard

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Overview

In this gripping episode, Dr. Michelle Ward delves deeper into the double life and evolving methods of Israel Keyes — a family man by day, and a calculating, methodical serial killer by night. The episode focuses on the years Keyes spent perfecting his craft across the Pacific Northwest and, eventually, the entire country. Through interviews, confession tapes, and expert analysis, the show explores how Keyes selected victims, concealed his crimes, expanded his hunting ground, and ultimately confounded investigators — until a critical mistake brought his reign of terror to an end.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Israel Keyes' Modus Operandi and Double Life

• Vagueness and "Doing Stuff":
  Keyes uses ambiguous phrases like "do stuff" to obscure the details of his crimes, avoiding names, dates, and locations.

  • "It's his way of staying vague. He doesn't give names of victims, he doesn't give dates. He doesn't give the precise location…" — Dr. Michelle Ward (04:09)

• Outdoor Experience as Cover:
  Keyes’ reputation as an outdoorsman gave him plausible reasons for wandering in remote areas, helping to hide his predatory activities.

  • "That's where I get a lot of the ideas. Either fishing or out hunting." — Israel Keyes (05:27)

2. Victim Selection and Planning

• Randomness and Lack of a ‘Type’:
  Keyes broke the serial killer archetype by targeting victims based on practicality and vulnerability rather than consistent profiles.

  • "He was a very practical killer. For Keyes, the focus is, can I abduct and rape and murder this person without anyone seeing? That's the profile." — Dr. Michelle Ward (08:09)
  • "It didn't seem to matter... Were they light enough to carry? Were they by themselves?... Did they not have dogs?" — Detective Jeff Bell (07:52)

• Friend/Victim Dichotomy:
  Anyone Keyes interacted with meaningfully was no longer a potential victim; only complete strangers were at risk.

  • "As soon as someone talks to me and sees me, then that's kind of puts it on a different spectrum for me… Like I want to be their friend or something. But obviously, if I've already decided to take somebody, then I'm not their friend." — Israel Keyes (08:31)

• Body Disposal and Misdirection:
  Keyes prioritized ease of body disposal, preferring victims who traveled alone and had their own vehicle, to further mislead investigators.

  • "He would take their body, bury it, and then drive their car somewhere else. So when the search happens, it’s far from the real crime scene." — Detective Jeff Bell (11:06)

3. Cross-Country Travels and Expanding the Hunting Grounds

• Family Visits as Pretext:
  His frequent travels — ostensibly to visit scattered family — gave him opportunities and cover for committing murders in locations far from home.

  • "It's either a great alibi… or a way of creating distance between himself and his crimes. It’s paramount to his MO." — Josh Hallmark (21:17)

• Kill Kits and Caching:
  Keyes buried "kill kits" across the U.S., containing weapons and supplies for future crimes, further disconnecting him from any paper trail.

  • "Come on. Everybody loves buried treasure. I do. That’s why I started burying stuff." — Israel Keyes (25:42)
  • "So he goes to Vermont in 2009 and buys everything he needs to kill someone and then cashes them two years later." — Josh Hallmark (26:28)

4. Learning from Others & Avoiding Detection

• Studying True Crime:
  Keyes learned from the mistakes of other serial killers, consuming books, documentaries, and reports to hone his strategies and evade capture.

  • "I… got lots of those kind of ideas, like what not to do from books and movies, true crime TV. Yeah, there's no shortage of what not to do." — Israel Keyes (28:28)
  • "Keys was a true crime fan. He read Mindhunter, he studied up on BTK and Ted Bundy." — Josh Hallmark (28:40)

• Desire for Anonymity:
  Keyes sought notoriety only among the invisible elite of uncaught killers, valuing invisibility over fame.

  • "All of the famous serial killers failed because they got caught. The best killers… are the ones who nobody knows because they’re secretly getting away with it." — Dr. Michelle Ward (29:36)

5. The Couriers Case: Detailed Confession

• Break from Previous Patterns:
  The abductions and murders of Bill and Lorraine Currier marked an escalation: targeting a couple in their home, breaking away from his more cautious, single-victim abductions.

  • "It's exactly what I mean when I'm talking about taking things to another level." — Dr. Michelle Ward (38:54)

• Chilling Precision:
  Keyes recounts every minute detail, from cutting the phone lines to subduing the couple and his plans for their car, highlighting his lack of fear and clinical detachment.

  • "I already had my backpack with me… I guess you'd call it a rape kit." — Israel Keyes (37:40)
  • "There was a crowbar that was hanging in their garage. That's what I used to break the window." — Israel Keyes (40:49)

• Failure to Stay "Under the Radar":
  The Courier murders receive local media attention, conflicting with Keyes’ desire to remain unnoticed — a point that both thrills and unsettles him.

  • "I definitely got carried away with the publicity aspect of it. My entire goal up until the courier thing was to stay under the radar." — Israel Keyes (49:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On compartmentalization & victim selection:
  "In his own words, he has two modes of relating to people. Either friend or victim." — Dr. Michelle Ward (09:03)

• On randomness:
  "It didn't seem to matter… It mattered a little bit, but it was more: Were they light enough to carry after he killed them? Were they by themselves? Did they not have dogs… things like that." — Detective Jeff Bell (07:52)

• On the thrill of planning:
  "I think it was 50% the planning and the fantasizing about the act, and then also just the exertion of control and power during the act." — Josh Hallmark (23:39)

• On learning from crime:
  "I probably know every single serial killer that's ever been written about. It's kind of a hobby of mine." — Israel Keyes (29:13)

• On “kill kits”:
  "Come on. Everybody loves buried treasure. I do. That's why I started burying stuff." — Israel Keyes (25:42)

• On the Couriers' case confession:
  "I've had some confessions in my history, but nothing to that detail… you'll never get out of your mind. Never forget." — Detective Jeff Bell (36:16)

• On breaking his own rules:
  "Here he is breaking his own rules and reveling in the media coverage. Keys's focus is starting to shift…" — Dr. Michelle Ward (50:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Quote | |---------------|---------------------| | 02:06 | Listener discretion warning; recap of previous episodes | | 04:09–06:34 | Keyes describes his hunting methods and victim selection strategies | | 07:52 | Detective Bell on Keyes having no victim type, but practical criteria | | 09:03 | Dr. Ward analyzes Keyes’ “friend vs. victim” dichotomy | | 11:06 | Detective Bell explains Keyes’ method of body and car disposal | | 15:01 | Nate Lessard recounts a chilling story from Keyes’ Army days | | 21:17 | Josh Hallmark discusses Keyes’ family trips and their link to his crimes | | 22:58 | Josh Hallmark on Keyes’ routines and routes during cross-country drives | | 24:19 | Hallmark explains “caching” and how Keyes uses kill kits | | 28:28 | Keyes admits to learning from true crime media | | 36:16 | Detective Bell on the detailed Courier confession | | 49:11 | Keyes discusses losing control over publicity after the Couriers’ case |

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Additional Insights

• Psychological Analysis:
  Dr. Ward frequently references Keyes' unique psychological traits, such as compartmentalization and lack of fear/anxiety, which allowed him to perform and recall violent acts with clinical detachment.
• Sexuality and Secrecy:
  The episode discusses how Keyes' bisexuality and other taboo interests were deeply hidden, contributing to his double life.
• Escalation and Compulsion:
  As with many serial killers, Keyes began pushing the boundaries of his own methods — seeking new thrills, risking exposure, and ultimately making mistakes.

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Episode Teaser

The episode ends on a tense note as Dr. Ward previews the next chapter:

• Israel Keyes' final victim, the murder that led to his capture, and the unraveling of his carefully constructed persona are set up as topics for the next episode.

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This summary captures the depth, tension, and crucial details of "Ep.3: Hunting Grounds," offering a comprehensive understanding for listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

This podcast explores themes of murder, torture and rape. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on Mind of a Monster the Cross Country Killer he was a good soldier.

[Nate Lessard (Army Buddy)]

He was meticulous. Everything he did was regimented, done in order to he was accepted.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

They welcomed him to the community.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

From ID and Arrow Media, I'm criminal psychologist Dr. Michelle Ward and this is Mind of a Monster, the Cross Country Killer Chapter 3 Hunting Grounds there's the.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Person that everybody knows and loves, and then there's the guy who spends every waking hour planning on how he's going to kill someone.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Israel Keyes is a deadly predator who. Who strikes from the shadows, brutalizes and butchers his victims, and then covers his tracks so efficiently that no one knows he's out there getting away with it.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Things could have got really out of hand real quick. That's when I realized that if I was gonna do that kind of stuff, it had to just be complete strangers from then.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

The date is July 10, 2012. Time is 10:10am this will be an interview with Israel Keys. So far, the 2012 FBI interviews with Israel Keys have given me an understanding of his childhood and early adulthood. Now I want to explore what happened during the decade prior to his arrest.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So going back to when you got.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Up to the army and living in the of a. There was stuff that happened when I was in Neah Bay. Like I say, got out of the army, and anytime I'd get to where I had downtime or, you know, if I would. If I would leave Nia Bay, every time I'd drive and make a drive somewhere, I'd be looking for places, good places to do stuff.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

This is one of the phrases Israel Keys repeats throughout these interviews. He says, do stuff or do something. It's his way of staying vague. He doesn't give names of victims, he doesn't give dates. He doesn't give the precise location of where he's committed a crime. It's incredibly frustrating to listen to, but I want to piece together the shreds of information that do slip out. Throughout his 20s, Israel is developing his methods of killing. But how is he doing it without attracting any attention? It's Summer, 2002. Israel Keyes lives with his partner Tammy and their daughter in the small community of Neah Bay, located on the northernmost tip of the Washington coast. To the east is Olympic national park, which has close to a million acres of wilderness. When Israel's not working or spending time with his daughter, he has run of the place. As far as his friends and family are concerned, the quiet, socially awkward handyman likes to spend time alone. Keys grew up in the outdoors. Hunting, camping, fishing. And he takes every opportunity to explore every corner of the Pacific Northwest. But his outdoor hobbies provide the perfect cover for his secret pleasures.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

You know, that's where I get a lot of the ideas. Either fishing or out hunting.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Thinking of them.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Yeah, it is. Stalk me through the woods and see somebody in the woods. They don't see you. Sit there and watch them for a while. I can remember doing that sometime. I was like 13 or 14 years old.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Just the fact that you're able to watch them and they don't know you're watching them. Right.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

That was always the most comfortable scenario for me. Because it's a win win situation. They're out hunting or fishing. And if the opportunity comes up, how would you identify a victim? I would let them come to me. If you go to a remote area that's not anywhere near where you live. But that other people go to as well, people are pretty. Especially if you get out in the backwoods. People are pretty naive. And I don't really expect anything bad to happen.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Keyes has been described as an ambush predator. Lying in wait for a victim to cross his path.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

You might not get exactly what you're not much to choose from, in a manner of speaking. But there's also no witnesses, really. There's nobody else around.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

We know that he almost got in trouble while he was in the army after attacking a girl he was dating. So Keyes only attacks complete strangers.

[Nate Lessard (Army Buddy)]

Now.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

He's very careful to select victims to which he has no previous contact. And they are completely random. He says, you might not get exactly what you're looking for. And this speaks to a flexibility that I find really unusual. I asked Detective Jeff Bell whether Keyes has a type.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I personally probably thought that it was going to be other female victims. And that there wouldn't be this randomness to it. Because of the little knowledge that I had of serial killers at the time. It seems like whether it's Dahmer or Bundy or anybody, they have a type of a person that they take and that they kill.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

They always have a victim profile. That's why we study victimology, part of our diagram. When we're trying to figure out who the killer is, it's incredibly important. They always have one. But Keyes didn't.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

It didn't seem to matter. It mattered a little bit, but it was more. Were they light enough to carry after they killed him? Were they by themselves? Did they not have dogs, they did not have kids, things like that?

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, he was a very practical killer. For Keyes, the focus is, can I abduct and rape and murder this person without anyone seeing? That's the profile.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So did you ever get in a position where you were start conversation with someone that you had thought about doing something. And then they. For whatever reason, you had a vibe from them that it wouldn't be a good idea or.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

No. As soon as someone talks to me and sees me, then that's kind of puts it on a different spectrum for me. I don't know why. It's like when I start talking to people, then I go into a different mode. Like I want to be their friend or something. But obviously, if I've already decided to take somebody, then I'm not their friend.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

In his own words, he has two modes of relating to people. Either friend or victim. Anybody he has a regular conversation with. Even the briefest greeting is a friend and no longer a viable victim. This way, he maintains absolute clarity on how he categorizes the world around him. I asked Detective Bell how many victims he believes Keyes took in Washington.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

My estimate would be while he was living in Neah Bay when he first started these crimes. Four or five victims. And I believe that he would travel two locations away from Neah Bay. And then in order to get back to Neah Bay, he'd had to go through Port Angeles and drive by Lake Crescent. And he did admit that he had at least disposed of bodies using his boat in Lake Crescent.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

This raises another question about the secret nature of his murders. How does Keyes hide his crimes so well? Here's Keyes again.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

My thoughts process had always been that there's not a body and not any witnesses. Then there's a big search or whatever sometimes. But if the person's not connected to me, then I probably won't ever even be questioned about it.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Listening to Keyes, it becomes clear that he plans the disposal of the body ahead of the attack. In fact, his choice of victim takes into account the process of dealing with the body. When referring back to his first attack on the Girl by the river, he said this.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I was waiting for someone who was pretty small because I was gonna dump them down in the tank. It was a really dark tank. They probably wouldn't have been found for a year or something.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So he's selecting victims who are going to be easy to dispose of once they're dead. Another preference he develops is victims who have their own vehicle. Detective Jeff Bell explains why his plan.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Would have been to bury the body of whoever it was that he took and then get into their vehicle and drive it to where his vehicle is and park it there and then leave in his vehicle. And the way he explained that to us would be that when this victim is reported missing by whomever you know, cares about him or her, when the search of the victim would happen, it would happen where the vehicle was found and not necessarily where the body was.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Every element of the crime is planned, from the attack to the hiding of the body. So the end result will be an unsolved missing person.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

It always surprises me, you know, like some situations you read about in the paper, like so and so disappeared. Presumed boating accident, for example. When they find their boat, you don't know what really happened to that person.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Someone might say, oh, it looks like.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

A boating accident, but you knew. Boating accident, hiker disappears, fires.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Are you telling us that there's. That there's bodies that have been found that were accidental death that ruled like that or that looked like that?

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Is that what you're telling me? Well, maybe it wasn't. So on one instance where you killed somebody, it appeared and you knew it was as if it were an accident.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How long ago was that?

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

A little while ago.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Keys gives no other information on this victim. No name, no date, no location. And investigators are unable to pursue it any further. It goes down as a potential murder by the master of silent killing.

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Keese presents a terrifying expertise in planning and committing murders without anyone noticing. And he has the psychopath's ability to keep the knowledge of his crimes entirely to himself. During my conversation with his army buddy, Nate Lessard, he shares a chilling story, one that's never been told on the record before. It predates Israel's move to Nia Bay by a couple of months while he's still in the Army. But he's stationed in Washington, close to the Capitol State Forest.

[Nate Lessard (Army Buddy)]

I remember being in Keys room and the TV's on, you know, and probably we get like, Armed Forces Network and the local news.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Oh, okay.

[Nate Lessard (Army Buddy)]

So you're on the local news and this thing comes on about missing person. Still looking for this missing person, whatever. And I don't think any of us were paying attention, but Keys says, yeah, that happened when I was camping this weekend. We were like, what, camping? You went camping? Who'd you go camping with? And he's like, well, you know, I just went with this girl who might have been this Tammy. Maybe not. Maybe there was no camping trip. But the story we got was he went camping and the sky went missing. Probably, he says, probably fell into the falls. And a very matter of fact. Matter of fact about it, too, you know, like, yeah, you know, I probably just went in the water and went over the falls, you know, and you get caught in that eddy or whatever it is and just get beaten against the rocks and. Yeah, I mean, you could. The body could stay there for. For weeks. The authorities were alerted and that Keys himself was part of this initial search party where they're looking for the guy. Can't find this guy. And. And then he went home and then. And that was it. That's all he knew about it until this news report. Oh, that's kind of weird that you were kind of sort of involved or there when this guy went missing.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Do you think he killed this guy?

[Nate Lessard (Army Buddy)]

I think so. You know, I certainly didn't think so at the time, but I think so.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

While we've already established that Keyes isn't picky, his attacks are sexually motivated. So why would he abduct and kill a man? I want to know what Keyes himself says about selecting victims once in custody. Keyes is given a psychological evaluation by Dr. Ronald Roesch. And in his assessment, he says something that Might help explain his lack of preference. He identifies as bisexual. I mentioned this to Nate Lessard in later interviews. He mentions that he was bisexual. Did you ever pick up on any of that?

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[Nate Lessard (Army Buddy)]

He said that that was not a thing. Not saying it couldn't have happened, but certainly nobody was talking about it or I would have known, you know what I mean? At that time, in that environment, that would have been everywhere.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

It's understandable that Keyes kept this side of his sexuality, the attraction to men, a secret from his army squad. Keyes grew up in a culture that would have been very homophobic. So I wonder if the young man's attraction to men was compartmentalized with other interests that genuinely were deviant. Like his interest in torturing cats. And his bisexuality is therefore pushed over into his secret Persona, hidden away from his family and his army friends and his partner, Tammy. Once again, we see these two sides of him that he keeps very separate, very defined. It's November 2002. After establishing his new double life in Neah Bay, Israel, Keyes appears to have successfully distanced himself from the rest of the Keys family until he gets some bad news about his father. I asked Josh Hallmark for the details.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Like all things with, you know, Heidi and John Jeffries, it's murky, but my understanding is they were on a train. He had some sort of a medical emergency. He refused because of their religion, medical intervention, and he died. It was a death that didn't need to happen. And I imagine based on some of Keys conversations, particularly in a psych report, that this bothered him. I think he kind of heroized his father while also disagreeing with their lifestyle.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Did his family welcome him to the funeral? Given his black sheep status?

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

I mean, we know he went and his mother continued to welcome him to things and according to Keyes, even demand he be present for things. So I think that goes back to this weird, codependent relationship.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

There's a curious tension in the Keyes family dynamic. He was taught from a young age that regular society is evil. And growing up, he was removed from society. So the only social group that matters in his world is his family. It's the only place where he can have any value. And he struggles with this throughout his life. Now his father dies, and the only person left he can measure his value against is his mother. And they disagree about pretty much everything.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

He goes back to her time and time again, even though she rebuts him. He goes out and helps her with their ranch every October. He goes to the sister's weddings.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

It's so interesting, this complicated relationship with his mom.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

He's constantly seemingly trying to impress her or prove that he's a worthy son, while also combating against everything she believes in.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

There's another intriguing element about the family dynamic, one that directly relates to Keyes behavior as a serial killer. After his father's death, his mother moved to Indiana and then to Texas with some of his younger sisters. He has younger brothers who are adults now living in Maine. He has a sister settled in Oregon, and he still has his own place in New York. So Keyes has lots of reasons to travel cross country. He's perfected killing in his own backyard. But I wonder how this traveling might change his M.O. i asked Josh whether Keys takes his methods on the road. Is he really going to see family, or is this a beautiful excuse to start canvassing the United States?

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

His trips to visit family were, like, fundamental to his commission of crimes because it's either a great alibi, like, I couldn't have done it, I was seeing my family the next day or the night before, or it's a way of creating distance between himself and his crimes. It's really. I mean, it's like I said, it's paramount to his MO in every single way.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So he's now committing murders all over the place.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Yeah.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Welcome back.

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

October 2004. Israel Keys leaves his home in Neah Bay and flies from Washington to New Hampshire. He spends the next 10 days traveling, maybe to Maine, maybe to New York. We don't know the details of his itinerary, only that he clocks over 1700 miles on his rental car. It's interesting that whenever he can, he drives rather than flies.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

He said every time he was driving around in Washington State, he was looking for places to do things. Now his map is much bigger, so he's driving cross country looking for places to do things. It's also a way to separate himself from his crimes, which he talked about. You know, kill someone and then get out of the area as quickly as possible, or abduct someone and get out of the area as quickly as possible.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So do these become regular routes?

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

There's a way for him to return to the scenes of his crime without there being footprints. You know, there's no trail. And so he can drive past that crime scene as much as he wants because it's not actually connected to him. It's just en route between these two locations that he goes to frequently.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

What do you think he's doing mentally during the Drives.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

I think he's amping himself up. I mean, that's what he said. I'm amping myself up. I'm looking for places. And he's driving around planning crimes, psyching himself up to commit them. And I think that is as much a part of the high as actually committing the crimes.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

For him, the planning of a murder serves a practical purpose. The more he plans, the better chance he, he has of getting away with it. But Josh thinks Keyes is taking pleasure in the planning. And I agree. He gets to practice the act over and over again in his head before he actually commits it.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

I think it was 50% the planning and the fantasizing about the act, and then also just the exertion of control and power during the act.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

The FBI estimates Israel Keyes takes 35 cross country trips during his 14 years as an active serial killer. Did he murder someone on every single trip? We don't know. But investigators find evidence on his computer that he indulged in another bizarre practice while marking out his territory. It's called caching. And Josh Hallmark has done a huge amount of research on it.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Caching is essentially hiding, usually burying survivalist kits. So people in the woods cache food or they cache hunting materials or, you know, if a lot of survivalists who are afraid of, you know, government takeovers, like, have some place nearby where they can run and dig up items that they need to survive.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

The items Keyes buries are not for survival. They are kill kits. Sealed buckets containing guns, zip ties, rope, Drano and cash. Anything he might need to successfully carry out an attack. Keyes returns to a buried kit before committing a crime and then again afterwards when he adds to it or makes a new one with perhaps the murder weapon or a trophy from his victim.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Do you have a cache in Washington? Is there guns buried in Washington?

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

There's stuff buried in Washington. Did any of your caches anywhere ever get discovered that you know of? I seriously never.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

What marks out Keyes as unique is the spread of his hunting ground. He buries kill kits across the country, from Vermont to Texas, Washington to Maine. Ready and waiting for that perfect future moment when Keys is in the area and decides conditions are right for murder.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Come on. Everybody loves buried treasure. I do. That's why I started burying stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

When.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I was a kid. I always used to dream that I'd find buried treasure. And I figured, well, if I can't find it, I might as well create it.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

I find it so interesting that he connects this behavior to his childhood. So much of his Secret world was already taking shape when he was a boy alone in those woods. The watching, stalking and hunting, his pleasure in torture and now his buried treasure. It also speaks to his fascination in making things disappear, like victims. I suspect he gets a similar thrill from hiding these kill kits and being the only person in the world who knows. Here's Josh again. Do you think he took pleasure in the planning and burying of these items?

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Oh, absolutely. Again, it's like part of the planning. It's just as much of the high for him as everything else. What he said, too, was like, so he goes to Vermont in 2009 and goes to a Home Depot and buys everything he needs to kill someone and then cashes them two years later. If they start looking into receipts, they're like, well, he didn't have any of these things with him.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

It's smart. It's really smart. I'm in the car, right, riding shotgun as we take a long road trip. And I'm thinking about Keyes and the remarkable forethought that he is exhibiting. He developed the patience of a hunter as a child, of course, but as a killer, he's really understood how important planning is. But I think we might be witnessing something else here, too. I think Keyes is upping the ante in his crimes. And what I mean by that is, is serial killers tend to get a little bit bored. They habituate to their style of killing, and let's be real regular people do the same thing. I mean, do something enough times, it really gets a little bit boring. So what I think we are having here is Keys is taking this to a new, new level. So he's taking his killing on the road. He's getting that high from planning it, from having those kill kits out. He gets to think about it. He gets to premeditate the murders. And there's still a ton of mystery to it. He doesn't know who it's going to be. He doesn't know when. He doesn't know when he's going to come across that geography. But it's out there and it's exciting. We know that part of his success comes from learning through trial and error. But here's another thing that becomes clear from his interviews. He also learns how to get better from reading.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He said he used to read crime books. How about from the. From studying Bundy and other people on things that they did that either got them caught or that you thought was a bad idea, that you stopped doing or don't do or didn't you because.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Of that.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I. Yeah, well, I got lots of those kind of ideas, like what not to do from books and movies, true crime tv. Yeah, there's no shortage of what what not to do.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Keys was a true crime fan. He read Mindhunter, he studied up on BTK and Ted Bundy.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So he's kind of a postmodern self aware serial killer.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Reading these true crime books and like following up on cases and reading cases taught him how to get away with crimes. You know, taught him about moving bodies across jurisdictions. That taught him about not targeting one type of victim. It taught him about laying in wait in the woods and waiting for the perfect victim.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I probably know every single serial killer that's ever been written about. It's kind of a hobby of mine.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So might be a weird question, but who's your favorite? We've talked about it, so I'm kind of curious.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

And we're curious on who your favorite is. One of my favorite ones haven't been caught yet. So their names.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

As far as Keyes is concerned, all of the famous serial killers failed because they got caught. The best killers, the killers worthy of his respect, are the ones who nobody knows because they're secretly getting away with it. And these are the killers with whom Keyes aligns himself. He doesn't want to be well known because he doesn't want to get caught.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

I don't think he ever wanted people to know about his crimes. I think the power for him was sustaining those two lives long after death and being remembered as a great father and a great construction worker and a great boyfriend and a great son.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

It's 2005 and Israel's relationship with Tammy has been on the rocks for a while. When a potential new partner enters his life, Keys sees an opportunity. Like Tammy. Kimberly is 10 years older than Keys. She has a job in healthcare that requires her to travel a lot. She has her own social circle, her own money. A low maintenance girlfriend who doesn't ask too many questions and gives Keys plenty of space. It's a perfect match. In winter 2006, Kimberly tells Israel her job is taking her north to Anchorage. She's moving to Alaska and invites him to join her. For Keyes, it's an opportunity to move even farther into the wild. It means separating from his daughter, but Keys will come back and visit her whenever he can. And we know how much he likes to travel.

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[Detective Jeff Bell]

I can tell you that we in just a little bit of, of investigating that we've done in travels. You're probably not going to be shocked at how many people are missing and things that happen right during your travels. And so personally I want to look at a couple, couple of your trips and there's missing people where you're at and so whether you did or didn't have anything to do with those missing and abducted people.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I can give you, I'll give you, I'll give you two bodies and a name. Who are we looking for? Last name Currier. C U R R I E R. What was the second name? Both courier man and wife.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Nine months before Israel Keys is arrested, Bill and Lorraine Currier are settling in for the night. It's late spring 2011 in the quiet leafy town of Essex, Vermont and the couple is working tomorrow. 50 year old Bill cares for animals at the University of Vermont while 55 year old Lorraine works for a healthcare company. The couriers have no children and live alone in their safe suburban home. But the following morning neither of them shows up for work and they aren't answering calls. Alerted to their absence, Bill's sister goes to the house later that day and finds the place empty. The car they share is missing and there's a broken window in the garage. Something's seriously wrong. Police investigate the bizarre disappearance, but there's no sign of a struggle, no blood, no evidence of what happened. It's as though they vanished without a trace. The investigation draws a blank until April 6, 2012, when Israel Keys tells the FBI he knows exactly what happened to Mr. And Mrs. Currier. Detective Agent Bell talks me through his harrowing account. How did his description of the attack compare to other confessions that he had given you about his crimes?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, it was the most detailed confession that we got. I've had some confessions in my history, but nothing to that detail. You know, the whole thing is just so disturbing and something that you'll never, you know, you never get out of your mind. Never forget.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Israel Keys has traveled to the east coast to visit his brothers in Maine. But he also drives through Vermont to do some fishing and some other recreational activities.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I had got a Vermont fishing License. That was kind of my alibi for being there, I guess. And plus I wanted to dig up guns that I had buried there. They had been there for a few years and I wanted to check on them, make sure they weren't full of water. I went down and found the guns, brought them back up to the motel room and worked on them for a while, getting everything working again.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

With his guns in working order, he takes a drive, scouting for a suitable location, somewhere he can take a victim.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Just an abandoned farmhouse that was for sale. It's not in very good shape. Hasn't been lived in for probably two or three years at least. That's why I picked it.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

After flagging this private hiding place, Keys drives back to his hotel.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I already had my backpack with me. It had a bunch of stuff in it. I had like a propane burner, camp stove thing and pan for boiling water. 50 foot coil of nylon rope, duct tape, latex gloves. I guess you'd call it a rape kit.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

When night falls, he sets out on foot, hunting for prey.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I decided I was going to look for a house with a couple in it. So I was started walking through neighborhoods back behind the hotel.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I was looking for a house that didn't look like it had a dog. I was looking for a single car garage with no cars parked outside. And I was looking for a fairly easy way to go get into the garage. And theirs was the first house I found that had all those things already.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

This sounds like a deviation from the type of abductions he was getting away with in Washington. He's breaking into a house and looking for a couple, which is very different from choosing victims small enough to carry. It's exactly what I mean when I'm talking about taking things to another level. And I wonder if this is the first time he's attempting something like this.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I cut the phone lines as soon as I picked the house because usually if there's an alarm system, it'll trigger the alarm.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So you could watch and see, right.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

So after I cut that, I was outside for probably an hour or two, just kind of waiting for everybody in the neighborhood to go to sleep and, and also watching for. Watching the stream street for cops or cars driving by.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

From his description, he clearly knows what he's doing. It reminds me that he started burglarizing homes when he was just a teenager. And the precision of his method suggests it's something he perfected as an adult. Detective Jeff Bell.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He broke into their garage first. It was an attached garage, but it was also a Door between the garage and the house. And so he went through their car and could see that it was registered to two people. He could see that there was no animal hair, no dogs hair, no kids toys, smart things like that. So he believed that there were probably two people in there and that he believed he knew where that bedroom was.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Was there a window between the garage and the house?

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

No, no, it was just the window and the door. They had left a window open in the garage. There was one window on the side of the house that had a fan in it.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

One of the things I'm noticing is his memory for detail. Not just the grim details of the attack, but every detail.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

There was a crowbar that was hanging in their garage. That's what I used to break the window. A 24 inch crowbar was hanging on a pegboard at the back of the garage.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So he's been reliving this event over and over. But it also tells me as a neuroscientist, something a little bit different. Psychopaths do not experience the physical phenomenon of anticipatory fear like the rest of us do. And that is this nervousness, the adrenaline and cortisol we all experience when we're doing something bad, Especially right before we do something bad. We start sweating, we get nervous, our heart starts racing. It's all part of the fight and flight response. But the hormones that are responsible for it also can erase memory. A non psychopath would not be able to remember such stressful events with this level of clarity. It also makes me think that Keys would have been using this biological advantage to remember from previous incidents what went right and what went wrong. So the next time he can modify his behavior to avoid repeating the same mistake. Stakes. So what happens after Keys breaks into the house?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He went straight to that doorway where he believed that would be the bedroom. And he was right. The couriers, by that time had Mr. Curry had sat up in bed because of the noise of the glass being broke. And then he blinded them with his headlamp.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

You know, it's like a blitz attack. You just make sure they know right away who's in charge and immediately tie them up, tell them what the roles are, that there's no talking unless I talk to them. They don't move unless I tell them to move. And did their hands behind their back with cable ties. I didn't tell them what was happening. They kept trying to ask me what was going on and know I didn't. I never answered, you know, stuff. Keep telling them to shut up and.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Listen to me, they know they're being robbed. That's what they.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

That's what they think is happening.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

They're being robbed.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Listening to this completely unemotional account, it's almost easy to forget what he's describing. That a couple in their 50s who went to bed expecting to be woken up in the morning by their alarm clock instead finds themselves in the middle of a sudden, violent home invasion and are now completely randomly under the control of a serial rapist and murderer. Keys takes Bill and Lorraine's money, jewelry and gun. Then he wrestles the couple into the garage and into their car.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

His plan with Courier's car after he killed them was to use it for a bank robbery. But it was a piece of junk, as he described, and so he wasn't able to take that. But he took them both out to the farmhouse and took Mr. Currier downstairs.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

There's a reason most serial killers don't target couples. It's much more difficult to control two people. And for all of Keez's meticulous planning, he has to improvise.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Came out of the basement, and she was standing right there by the door. She had somehow broke the cable ties on her hands and on her feet and got out of the car. She was almost to the road when I came out of the basement, and she saw me come out and she started running. And I tackled her on the lawn and. Roughed her up a little bit and tied her back up and took her upstairs.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

The Couriers fight back hard. While Keys is restraining Lorraine upstairs. Bill is shouting for his wife from the basement and manages to break his ties. Keyes has to run back down and physically fight with Bill. We get a sense that Bill is doing everything he can to defend his wife. It's messy and desperate and really heartbreaking to imagine. So what happened next?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So as he put it, Mr. Currier was not cooperating with his plan. Mr. Currier had gotten up and was making too much noise for him.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Keys's plan involves some sort of sexual assault on both Mr. And Mrs. Courier. But Bill refuses to surrender.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

It was annoying me that I was having to deal with him.

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[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

That was part of the whole plan of her taking a couple. You know, I had this idea in my head of what was gonna happen, and she was screwing it up, I guess. So he. So once I realized he wasn't gonna let me tie him back up again, I just kind of. Kind of gave up on that part of the plan. I was like, well, I'm just gonna kill him. I guess the plan was to have him. I was gonna rape fur. And, you know, like, I'm not going to say what I was going to do, but, you know, there was, like, a plan I had to. That he was going to be involved, too. I ran back upstairs and grabbed the 1022. And he started to say something, and it just pissed me off. And I just started pulling the trigger. I pulled as fast as I could until the magazine was empty.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, I mean, it's so hard to imagine for. Because of how weird and demented and tormented he is. My guess would be that it involved torture. It may have involved torture of Mrs. Currier in his presence. I mean, I kind of hate to think about it, quite honestly.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

After killing Mr. Currier, Keys goes back upstairs to where Mrs. Currier is restrained. He tells the FBI in unflinching detail how he tortures and rapes her twice.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He couldn't help himself but to tell us just details that would sicken people. And maybe that was his goal.

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

There's only one detail that he wants to keep to himself.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You said when you're in your kit, get a pan and water.

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[Detective Jeff Bell]

What do you boil water for?

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I'm not going into the details of all that.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

The ordeal ends when he takes Mrs. Currier downstairs to the basement.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He said he brought her so he didn't have to carry her. He brought her downstairs and then strangled her downstairs with Mr. Courier.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

After killing the Couriers, Keyes plans to burn down the house. But the sun's coming up and people in the area are already starting their day. So he leaves the bodies in the corner of the basement covered in Drano and trash, and then drives the Courier's car back to Essex and parks it a few streets away from their house. When asked if he was worried about someone stumbling onto the crime scene, Keyes shakes his head.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I mean, if you go into an old farmhouse and smell something dead, that's not really that unusual. So I figured as long as it passed like someone went into the basement and looked around a little bit, they wouldn't be that suspicious of something smelling dead.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

His prediction turns out to be correct. The investigation into the Courier's disappearance never reaches the basement of that empty house off Route 15. Nine months moments later, the FBI asks Keyes to point out the house on Google Maps. But when the information is relayed to Essex police, they discover that property developers tore it down months earlier. The bodies of Lorraine and Bill Courier are no longer there and are presumed to have been unknowingly deposited into a landfill with the rubble from the house. Despite the missing bodies, investigators are convinced that Israel came Keys is telling the truth. There are elements of this attack that are consistent with what I've learned about Israel Keyes MO the prior scouting of a suitable location, the care in making sure there are no witnesses, the randomness of the victims and the moving of the victim's car to confuse investigators. But then there's this.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I definitely got carried away with the publicity aspect of it. My entire goal up until the courier thing was to stay under the radar.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

And the couriers was big news from what it sounded like.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

Well, big news for that area.

[Josh Hallmark (Researcher)]

Yeah.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

And I just kept checking back on the story and kind of getting a kick out of the different things that the investigators would say because obviously, I mean, I know what happened, seeing the difference from their perspective versus my perspective and, and then on top of that, when people would read the news story then there, you know, everybody wants to comment on it like their theories of what happens. And so I got really hooked on that too because it was entertaining to me, I guess.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

So much of Israel Keyes description of himself paints a picture of this cold eyed predator who's become an expert in catching his prey. And yet here he is breaking his own rules and reveling in the media coverage. Keys focus is starting to shift and when he abducts his next victim, an 18 year old girl, he finally slips up. Next time on Mind of a the Cross Country Killer.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

I just learned my daughter works at the Common Grounds.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Espresso. She's been missing since she got off work last night.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

There was like no doubt in my mind that we have a kidnapping.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

I honestly no way like he would hurt anybody or have anything to do with a missing person. There's just no way.

[Israel Keyes (Serial Killer)]

My blood, blood started pumping when he handed me a driver's license from Anchorage, Alaska.

[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Mind of a Monster The Cross Country Killer is produced by Aeromedia, a Fremantle Company for ID. I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Ward. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts and we'd love it if you could take a second to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts.

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

This traffic is awful. Um, can we stop at a bathroom? Are you alright?

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Call your doctor if you have any.

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[Dr. Michelle Ward (Podcast Host)]

Epi and if Creon could help.

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