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- [00:01]
Matt
Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy. And this episode is sponsored by ebay. The cars you'll find on ebay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on ebay that has been tucked away in an Arizona Barn for over 40 years. Only 55,000 miles and somehow in great running order, it even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly, a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks. With ebay's secure purchase, all the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on ebay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers. And now with a new way to buy them. Ebay, things people love.
- [00:44]
Bill.com Sponsor
With almost half a million customers and over a trillion dollars of secure payments, Bill isn't new to intelligent finance. It's the proven way to simplify bill pay and maximize cash flow. Want to Learn more? Visit bill.comproven for a special offer.
- [01:01]
Matt
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- [01:18]
Dr. Michelle Ward
This podcast explores themes of violence against women, rape and murder. It includes explicit dialogue. Listener discretion is advised. Please note some of the voices you hear in this series have been performed by actors. Under the shimmering lights of Hollywood in the 2000s, a killer lies in wait. He's someone people think they can trust. A neighbor. But he's biding his time, stalking the streets, hunting for his next victim. From ID and Arrow Media, I'm criminal psychologist Dr. Michelle Ward, and this is Mind of a Monster. The Hollywood Ripper. Chapter one, Michael Gargiulo.
- [02:03]
Frank Main
Michael Gargiulo was watching, always watching. She was stabbed, and I mean butchered almost 50 times. And her throat was cut.
- [02:14]
Dr. Michelle Ward
I touched her and she was like,
- [02:16]
Ad Host (Elise Hu / Various Ads)
you know, ice cold.
- [02:17]
Dr. Michelle Ward
That's when the shock set in. A media frenzy erupts when this modern day serial killer is convicted of attempting to murder one woman and succeeding in murdering two other women. All neighbors he ambushed in their own homes.
- [02:33]
Journalist Nathan Solis
News at 10. Actor Ashton Kutcher appears in the Hollywood
- [02:37]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Ripper trial for the first time. In my work on the Mind of a Monster series, I'm investigating a case that, as of today, isn't over. This killer awaits trial in another murder case in Illinois.
- [02:50]
Frank Main
Tricia parked her car and walked up to the side of the house, key in hand. But she never made it inside.
- [02:59]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Throughout this season, I'll be delving into the disturbed mind of Michael Gargiulo. He's one of the most contemporary and, and as a woman living in LA at the time, troubling serial killers I've investigated.
- [03:13]
Ad Host (Elise Hu / Various Ads)
The rage of the killing of Ashley
- [03:15]
Frank Main
was so extreme, the attack on Maria Bruno was so vicious, so callous, it almost like was like a personal thing. The methodical and systematic slaughter of of women by Michael Gargiulo. That's what this case is about.
- [03:44]
Dr. Michelle Ward
It's 2019. Michael Gargiulo is standing trial for multiple murder charges in Los Angeles. I remember it vividly. Dubbed the Hollywood Ripper case. It makes headlines all over the world. Journalist Nathan Solis reported on the case. And he takes me into that courtroom where the sole survivor is about to face her attacker. So Michelle Murphy takes the stand. It must have been a moment of high drama. She's finally face to face with her attacker 11 years later. What do you remember about her testimony and the atmosphere in the courtroom at that time?
- [04:30]
Journalist Nathan Solis
The room felt incredibly fraught with tension. Not necessarily out of fear for her safety, but fear for her having to confront this again. She was just so incredibly brave and strong in the eyes of everyone in that room at that time. I wrote in my notes because Gargiulo is about, I think, six feet tall and she's petite and she's much smaller than him, but she's tearing herself like she's 10ft tall because she had so much courage and conviction to be up there. She struck me as someone who had no problem looking at Gorgulo. She was the one that survived and she looked directly at him. And I don't think that's something that we can all say for ourselves.
- [05:28]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Michelle Murphy's testimony opens the trial. Everyone wants to hear from the woman whose survival unmasked a suspected serial killer. The 37 year old takes the stand. She's only a few feet away from the 43 year old Michael. He's bald, pale and wearing thick rimmed glasses, virtually unrecognizable from the repairman with Hollywood good looks. Who was Michelle's neighbor in Santa Monica back in 2008. Did she mention about her interactions that she had had with Mike Gargiulo before the night when he attacked her?
- [06:04]
Journalist Nathan Solis
Yeah. So the two of them lived in opposite apartment buildings in Santa Monica and they had a common alley in between the two of them. And that's where they would park their vehicles. He had a utility truck parked and she would sometimes see him and he would occasionally wave to her. That was the extent of their interactions.
- [06:28]
Dr. Michelle Ward
She didn't feel like she was being watched or stalked?
- [06:31]
Journalist Nathan Solis
No, no. But apparently his apartment looked right into her apartment. So it was just a matter of him looking out his window.
- [06:41]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Oh, gosh. Michelle's testimony takes us back to April 28, 2008. A warm spring evening in Santa Monica. She's put in her laundry and now she's working out in the back alley behind her apartment building. She's jumping rope. Michelle is 26 and keeps in good shape. She's 5:1 and attractive with dark shoulder length hair. By 9pm her laundry is done. She empties the dryer and goes up to her second floor apartment to take a shower. A relaxed evening lies ahead. Her roommate is out of town, so Michelle has the place to herself. But it's a Monday night, so nothing crazy, just TV and then sleep. She cracks open the living room window to let in a cooling breeze before going to bed. At about 10:30,
- [07:34]
Frank Main
911 with your emergency police.
- [07:36]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
Okay, what is your name? Michelle. What happened?
- [07:41]
Dr. Michelle Ward
11:46pm Michelle is in her bathroom talking to the emergency responder on the phone. She's covered in blood, terrified, shaken. Please describe for us what she says happened that night.
- [07:54]
Journalist Nathan Solis
She testified that she woke up to the feeling of the knife coming down on her and that she couldn't immediately see what was happening, but she knew that someone was on top of her. Wow. She felt the sensation of being stabbed. She said something to the effect of, I'm not going to let this be my end or I'm not going to give up here. And she struggled with him and she grabbed at the knife, but it was slick with her blood and so she couldn't get a good firm grip on it. So as she was struggling, she pulled her legs out from under him, she pulled her knees up to her chest and she basically launched him. She kicked him off with whatever strength she had.
- [08:43]
Dr. Michelle Ward
You go, girl.
- [08:44]
Journalist Nathan Solis
Yeah, no, it was, it was incredible to hear her describe that. And during that struggle is when he cut himself.
- [08:53]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
Okay, do it. The armed with just the knife. Michelle, I'm sorry, Are you able to walk through the door?
- [09:02]
Journalist Nathan Solis
The prosecution just laid out its evidence and was asking their questions. And that included the 911 call of her talking to an operator about the attack. And her voice sounded composed but, but, but very tinny. You know, the quality wasn't great and at times you could hear her breaking down and then she would pick herself up. So she was able to describe his physique and his height. She said, oh, he's 5 11.
- [09:34]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
The fire department is on our way and we are already there. We're looking for the guy now. We'll be making contact in just a second. Do you remember how big this guy was?
- [09:41]
Frank Main
Top Hollywood.
- [09:48]
Journalist Nathan Solis
He was wearing dark clothing and I couldn't see his face.
- [09:51]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Do you remember how he got in?
- [09:53]
Journalist Nathan Solis
Yeah, he went through a window. He cut it open with a knife. The jury was shown the photos from her apartment and it was just covered in blood, just everywhere. Over her bedspread, in her hallway, where she crawled out of. Because she chased after him as he was running out of her apartment, and he said sorry to her and then she locked her door.
- [10:18]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Oh my gosh. Take a second to let that sink in. I'm sitting here processing what Nathan has said, that this girl who's small, strong, but small, in bed, asleep, not clothed, is able to transition from sleep, leap, to attack, to defend herself in no time at all. No matter who you are, it takes time to realize what is going on around you, what you're experiencing, and to engage in fight or flight. Somehow she's able to get out from underneath this large male attacker with a weapon, somehow injure him, and chase him down the hallway. And then to make it even stranger, he apologizes. For what? Is he sorry he didn't finish the job? Is he sorry he messed up? Who's he apologizing to? To Michelle? To himself? Or perhaps he's sorry because this means he may get caught back in court. Photographs are being shown to the jury of Michelle lying in a hospital bed after the attack. Stab wounds to her chest and arms. Were you able to get an impression of the jury, jurors reactions as she described the injuries in the night?
- [11:34]
Journalist Nathan Solis
Some of the jurors were just. Would not take their eyes off of her. And a few of them were taking notes and visibly upset when they would see photos of her injuries that were put up on display. So you could see that they would take a beat and they would look up and it was kind of like a gut punch because you're looking at this very graphic cut to this person's body and she was in the room with this. There was also a sense that she was getting the last word in and that she was able to face her attacker and, you know, hold him to account.
- [12:15]
Dr. Michelle Ward
From an emotional standpoint, how did she seem on the stand?
- [12:19]
Journalist Nathan Solis
She seemed, for the most part composed. And the fact that she had the ability to go through those questions without breaking down was. Was Definitely surprising.
- [12:30]
Dr. Michelle Ward
I mean, despite it being 11 years later, none of us have experienced anything like that. And I can't imagine ever reliving it without being an absolute mess.
- [12:40]
Journalist Nathan Solis
She painted a picture that you probably could never really imagine. The idea that someone is in your bedroom at night is probably a fear that a lot of people have. But for her to paint that visual and then for her to be in the room with this man made her seem like she was a giant.
- [13:05]
Dr. Michelle Ward
For my research, I have access to thousands of pages of legal documents from the California State Superior Court. Throughout this series, I'll be digging into these transcripts to gather information. I've learned that Michael's trial revolves around four Michelle Murphy, whose courage ended his killing spree. Ashley Ellerin and Maria Bruno. Plus, the judge takes a rare step of allowing the prosecution to include evidence about a fourth woman, Tricia Picaccio. Michael will stand trial for her murder later in Illinois. Like all of the women he's accused of killing, Michelle Murphy is good looking, outgoing and petite, easy for Gargiulo to overpower. Beyond neighborly hellos, they did not know each other. Who is Michael Gargiulo and how did he become such a brutal killer?
- [14:06]
Bill.com Sponsor
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- [14:22]
Ad Host (Elise Hu / Various Ads)
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- [16:38]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Michael Thomas Gargiulo is born on February 15, 1976. He's the fifth of seven children. He has three sisters and three brothers. His father has several jobs working long hours to support his growing family, leaving Michael's mother at home in charge of this boisterous gaggle of children. They live in Glenview, a leafy suburb 20 miles north of Chicago. Glenview is a small, safe town, the type of place where kids play in sprinklers on the front lawn while parents wash their cars. The mind of a monster team tracks down one of Michael's teenage friends who agrees to an interview on condition of anonymity. We've disguised his voice to protect his identity.
- [17:23]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
We would just kind of hang out and smoke weed and go cause mischief or whatever and yeah, we would just kind of roll around in the cars and smoke weed and Michael would, you know, find us some weed because he was a little older and knew some people who would, you know, help accommodate us. I wasn't the greatest son back in those days. I remember one particular time we were in my dad's Chevy Tahoe at the shopping plaza, driving it over the grass island in the, in the parking lot, just kind of going straight across, like off roading it and he was like giggling like a school girl. It was enjoyable, you know, for, for the most part to hang out with. I mean, we used to laugh with Michael a lot Honestly, it was usually at the expense of others. But we would laugh with Michael a lot. He. He was. He was funny. I thought he was a funny guy.
- [18:17]
Dr. Michelle Ward
So in a lot of ways, Michael is just a typical teenager, which in and of itself is an insight. He's not a loner, sitting in his room or in his garage or basement, not interacting with other kids or classmates. It might be notable that Michael's hanging out with someone who is three years younger than he is. But remember, most of the other kids are in school or obeying rules. There's only so many misfits to choose from. Both of these boys are doing poorly in school.
- [18:46]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
I don't remember him in school, and I don't remember him ever talking about school. It was my impression that he. I did. I did a similar thing. I dropped out of high school when I was a junior and ended up getting my high school diploma. A lot of the kids that were a little more inclined to be in trouble tended to gravitate towards that.
- [19:08]
Dr. Michelle Ward
So I'm sitting here going through these court documents because I feel like I need more clues about Michael's childhood. And this is kind of interesting right here. It says that he was put into special education when he was 10 for being disruptive, distracting others and teachers generally just finding him difficult. And that's all according to the psychologist who was brought in by the defense, Vienne Castellano. Now, she talks about him having oppositional conduct disorder. And I don't think that's what she means. I think what she means is the two separate disorders of oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder, but they're a little different. Oppositional defiant disorder is characterized by being disobedient and defiant with adults, which is exactly what I think Michael had at the time. Now, conduct disorder is a little bit more serious, and he's not quite there yet. That's characterized by having a disregard for the rights of others, being very physically aggressive and very antisocial. That's like real rule breaking in these kids. And it's more than just being oppositional defiant at age 10. So I would say that's probably pretty right on that. He probably had oppositional defiant disorder. Now, her evidence was part of the defense case presented at Michael's trial. So the prosecution and no other parties found any of these details so far. I'm just seeing a naughty, rebellious teen. I need to understand more about his genes and his environment to get a clearer picture.
- [20:34]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
There were scruffy Italian family, and I'll be honest with you, I looked up to Michael because he had a name behind him. The Gargiulo name was kind of, I don't want to say like super popular, but like, the Gargiulo boys were known, and they were fairly popular guys.
- [20:50]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Michael claims he's bullied by a sibling.
- [20:53]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
I remember him telling stories about, like, getting locked in his room and getting the crap picked out of him. And his parents didn't defend him. His parents didn't seem to. According to him. According to him, I never witnessed any of this, but according to him, his parents just kind of let it go down. They didn't really interject. They didn't really come to his rescue.
- [21:16]
Dr. Michelle Ward
This account is mirrored in Michael's trial by the psychologist hired by the defense. It hasn't been verified by the prosecution or any other parties. Michael is a bully too. I want to see if his teenage friend ever saw this side of him.
- [21:32]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
He was just an intimidating, volatile, unpredictable guy. I always felt like I was lucky because for whatever reason, Michael didn't pick on me. He would pick one of us in the group and just. God, he was. He was mean, you know, he would just belittle you, make fun of you. He was relentless. He wouldn't stop. I remember him picking on my friend. I was a bigger kid when I was young. I was already predisposed to be on guard for bullying. So I always found it enjoyable that Michael didn't pick me to pick on me. But I just always remember feeling like on edge, you know, you never kind of knew what he was going to do. I mean, we'd be sitting there one moment smoking a joint, and the next moment Michael would be ripping his shirt off, running across the field, screaming, or, you know, attacking my buddy, punching him, you know, repeatedly. He was extremely volatile. I mean, you just never knew what he was going to do.
- [22:38]
Dr. Michelle Ward
This is more significant bullying than someone who simply targets just one person. As discussed, this looks like conduct disorder, which is more serious than Oppositional Defiant disorder or odd. ODD is a pattern of negative defiant and disobedient behavior towards authority. Conduct disorder, on the other hand, includes physical aggression, destruction of property, deceitfulness, and overall more serious rule violation. Now, this can be typical in someone we see on a trajectory toward full blown antisocial Personality disorder, in which we have a long term pattern of disregard for and violation of the RA rights of others. Like a criminal in the making. But lots of well adjusted adults were bullies as children. So I need to dig deeper into his familial history to try to understand all possible influences on his criminal Outcome. I found out that both of Michael's grandfathers came to New York in the early 1920s on a boat from Naples. Fred Gardaffe is a professor of Italian American Studies and like Michael, is a third generation Italian American. His grandparents arrived in Chicago around the same time as Michael's. Why Chicago? Why'd they go there?
- [23:53]
Fred Gardaffe
Chicago was the transportation hub of the United States. It was the point in which people went west. There was meat packing, there were transportation, the railroads met there. Everybody needed workers at that time, and they really needed unskilled workers as well.
- [24:12]
Dr. Michelle Ward
What kind of jobs would they have had?
- [24:14]
Fred Gardaffe
They would have worked for the railroad. They were the builders. You know, there's a story that says they were lured over with the idea that the streets were paved with gold. And when they got here, they realized the streets weren't paved at all. There was no gold there, and they were the ones expected to do the paving. Many, many, many migrants died during the buildings of skyscrapers. This kind of idea that the worker was expendable.
- [24:41]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Life is cheap for first generation Italian immigrants like Michael Gargiulo's grandparents. Their children would have witnessed the hardship, the blood, sweat and the tears it took to build a new life. The sacrifices that meant they could leave the Italian ghetto for the leafy suburbs, just like Michael's parents did when they moved to Glenview in 1964. You don't know the Gargiulos and you're a bit older than Michael, but. But how was life at home for you and your family growing up?
- [25:10]
Fred Gardaffe
I grew up thinking, very much so, that I would never live to be 40 or 50 years old, because violence was something that was expected. It was a way of resolving problems. Somebody's giving you a problem, Slap them. Somebody's giving you a real problem, kill them. My father was killed when I was 10. My father's father grabbed me. The day my father was killed, I was about to cry and he said, you're the man in the family now. Men don't cry. I didn't cry from that day in 1963 until I went into therapy 40 years later. But when I did go to therapy, I had a therapist once who said to me, it's a wonder you didn't become a mass murderer.
- [25:54]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Obviously, Fred Gardeffey did not turn into a mass murderer. And frankly, having a violent childhood does not, not at all mean someone will grow up to be violent. I don't know how much of Fred Gardefe's story rings true for Michael's family, but this tough, macho immigrant heritage is somewhat of a useful lens through which to view Michael's upbringing. We do know that we are culturally, genetically, and environmentally related to our own family. So disentangling the causes of behavior in one singular person is impossible. It's too anecdotal. We need a population statistic for that. However, we also know that there can be cultural influences in terms of what specific behaviors are normalized within a family. Then Fred Gardeffe tells me something else deep in the Italian psyche that might help me understand Michael better. So what was going on in Italy in the 1920s that made so many people want to leave?
- [26:51]
Fred Gardaffe
Italy was a land that was constantly invaded, and not only invaded, but occupied by foreign countries. And this idea of creating a false front and, you know, to protect your real core of who you are, that's part of the behavior of people who live in occupied countries. The Italians call it having a bella figuda, and you make yourself look better than you are or you make yourself look worse than you are. So this idea of bella and bruta figura, it's so ingrained in Italian culture that people like Gargiulo would have. Would have had it under his skin. It would have been in his DNA. And the idea is you don't let people know what you're thinking. You don't really let them know the truth. Truth about you. The idea is that if you tell the truth to somebody, the devil will take over.
- [27:50]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Don't let anyone know what you're thinking. Don't let anyone know the truth about you. The perfect mantra for a serial killer. This also makes me wonder more about Michael's parents, how he was raised and what his home life was like. Something for me to dive further into. So I'm outside playing with my dogs as they are wrestling over here, over here. And it's got me thinking about Michael, Gargiulo's friend and what he said about him and how he's a bully and he's kind of, you know, a little bit violent and maybe a bit of a troublemaker, but so are plenty of teenage boys. And what I think is, yes, we could be seeing a guy on a bad trajectory, but we have to remember a lot of teenage boys grow out of this kind of stuff. He's a little bit on the rougher edge of that spectrum, but he's also from a culture where some of that behavior seems positive, and he hasn't done anything quite yet to really raise red flags. But I say this. This is the crucial, crucial crossroad. It's where some kids mature and become reasonable adults. And others take a much more dangerous road. We'll see where he goes.
- [29:17]
Matt
Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy. And this episode is sponsored by ebay. The cars you'll find on ebay are just different. They come with a story that you you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on ebay that has been tucked away in an Arizona Barn for over 40 years. Only 55,000 miles and somehow in great running order, it even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly, a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks with ebay's secure purchase. All the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on ebay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers. And now with a new way to buy them. Ebay, things people love.
- [30:00]
Ad Host (Elise Hu / Various Ads)
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- [30:27]
Bill.com Sponsor
With almost half a million customers and over a trillion dollars of secure payments, Bill isn't new to intelligent finance. It's the proven way to simplify bill pay and maximize cash flow. Want to Learn more? Visit bill.comproven for a special offer.
- [30:44]
Matt
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- [31:05]
Dr. Michelle Ward
It's 1993 in Glenview, Illinois and Tricia Picaccio is an 18 year old high school graduate looking forward to her freshman year at college. I speak with Chicago Sun Times journalist Frank Maine. So I want to take you back to your impressions of Glenview in 1993.
- [31:24]
Frank Main
I'm familiar with the area. It's a very nice kind of upper class community, kind of a leafy, sleepy community. And most of the kids are upwardly mobile and heading to good universities and
- [31:39]
Dr. Michelle Ward
I've read that at the time, Tricia Picaccio is one of them.
- [31:43]
Frank Main
Tricia was heading to Purdue University to study engineering and that's a great engineering school. So she was kind of following the path that a lot of kids from that area would follow, which is to either go to one of the Big ten schools or Ivy League schools or something like that. So that's kind of the neighborhood that she grew up in.
- [32:05]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Tricia is a force of nature. She's a 4 foot 11 inch powerhouse with the wood world at her feet, as well as the school debate team. She's on the badminton team. And she will be leaving Glenview at the end of August for Purdue University in Indiana. She's beautiful, clever and popular. Tricia's brother Doug knows Michael Gargiulo. Mike and Doug first met at age nine. They went to the same elementary school, to Cub Scouts and even started a band together. Doug on bass, Mike on drums. Doug and Michael are also on the football team together. Michael is fast, strong and can kick a football farther than anyone else. In August 1993, Michael, or Mike as his friends call him, is 17. He's athletic and handsome, with warm brown eyes, a charismatic smile and dark hair in a mullet. Mike's either spending time with his girlfriend, Allison Mecefi, they've been dating since they were 15 or 16. Or hanging out with friends like Doug Boccaccio. In my research, I want to learn more about the Picaccio family and where Michael fits into it. Everyone is welcome at their house, which is the next street over from the Gargiulos. Doug Picaccio's mom, Diane, often cooks for her kids friends, but she remembers that Michael never seems particularly comfortable in the house. Diane sets some food in front of him and she says he'd pick it up and. And he'd start pacing back and forth like a caged animal. She says, why don't you sit down with everyone else? And he'd say, well, I can't. And he'd take off out the door. Could this be puzzling behavior? Michael's known Doug for most of his life and isn't at home in his house. But it might be normal teenage awkwardness around other people's parents or him just being uncomfortable with authority figures in general. Or is it because he has nefarious intentions toward Tricia that he doesn't want to accidentally reveal by sticking around for too long. On August 14, 1993, Tricia Picaccio is found stabbed to death on the doorstep of her family home. In the LA courtroom in 2019, prosecuting District Attorney Dan Aikman is seeking justice for Michael Gargiulo's victims. Tricia Picaccio's case is used in evidence even though Michael's not on trial for. For her murder at this time. DA Aikman presents what he believes to be Michael's first murder and paints a heartbreaking picture of Tricia Picaccio's last hours.
- [34:39]
Frank Main
On Friday 13th August in 1993, it was hot and muggy in Glenview and a thick fog had settled over the area.
- [34:52]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Tricia is due to leave for Indiana in five days. Journalist Frank Main.
- [34:57]
Frank Main
She was out with some friends and they were kind of having this kind of a last hurrah before she went to college. And they went out to a restaurant and kind of celebrated. And then afterwards, I think that she drove her friends back to their cars and then went home. Tricia's evening ended with hugs and kisses with her friends. To Trisha, it was the summer of her life and the end of a perfect evening with friends. Tricia parked her car and walked up to the side of the house, key in hand, but she never made it inside.
- [35:44]
Dr. Michelle Ward
What happened that night?
- [35:47]
Frank Main
The police think she was killed somewhere around 1am in the morning. But her body wasn't found until the later that morning when her dad went to walk a family dog and was looking out the front door and saw Jim Shoes near the stairs. And it turned out to be his daughter. And obviously it was horribly traumatic. He screamed and then from what I gather, they were in such shock that eventually the police had to take both of them to the hospital because of their horror at what they had discovered.
- [36:22]
Dr. Michelle Ward
It is so traumatizing to think about a father stumbling upon his daughter's mutilated body. I expect nothing less than them needing to be hospitalized after that. The ripple effect of victims in a case like this is so mind boggling to me. Yeah, a crime like this looks like rage. It looks like anger. And you have this sweetheart, this apple of everybody's eye, killed in such a violent manner. And this is on the family stoop. They walk outside of their house, probably not even knowing that their daughter's not home. And there she is. You have to register that she's dead. Could you describe Tricia's injuries?
- [37:13]
Frank Main
From what I recall, one of her arms was broken in the struggle that she had with her killer. And she was stabbed like a dozen times.
- [37:27]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Back in court, prosecutor Dan Aikman makes the case that Michael Gargiulo is responsible for killing Tricia.
- [37:35]
Frank Main
The evidence will show that Gargiulo was waiting for her with the knife. Gargiulo, who is athletic and had trained in martial arts and boxing, grabbed Tricia, who was very petite, snapped her arm and stabbed her. Repeated repeatedly in the left breast, arm and chest. Gargiulo left her bleeding to death on the doorstep of the family home and fled.
- [38:04]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Michael's teenage friend remembers that day vividly more than 30 years later.
- [38:11]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
That was a huge, huge thing for little Gwen. View. They have a little girl stabbed a duck on her doorstep. You know, I mean, that was. That was big news in Glenview.
- [38:21]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Murders are very rare in Glenview. And this one of an innocent girl ferociously stabbed outside her home has a shattering impact on the collective psyche. Journalist Frank Main.
- [38:34]
Frank Main
So it's a crime that obviously seems linked to extreme anger and personal animus. The question that everybody had at the time is, how did this lovely girl, who was a straight A student, seem to kind of bridge all sorts of different social groups in the high school? Why would somebody do this?
- [39:00]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Exactly. Forensic investigators seal off the scene, and Trisha's body is taken away for examination. It's quickly established that Tricia has not been sexually assaulted. The stabbing is frenzied. Tricia has wounds to her chest, arms and back. It's overkill, much more than needed to end someone's life. Stabbing is an intimate act. It requires strength, skill, and practice. And it can go wrong. So why choose that as a way of killing? Sometimes the attacker gets pleasure through the act itself, being so close to someone as their life drains away. Prosecutor Dan Aikman shares with the jury what he believes to be Michael's mo.
- [39:50]
Frank Main
Gargiulo's plan to kill was to first identify a target who lived near him, acquaint himself with that victim and her habits and routines, and then watch, shadow, stalk and hunt down the victims relentlessly as part of his plan to kill.
- [40:14]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Michael stays silent throughout his trial. But after his arrest in 2008 following the attack on Michelle Murphy, his conversations in jail were secretly recorded throughout the scene series. These snippets will give us valuable insights into his state of mind. Here's an excerpt from a conversation Michael had with his cellmate.
- [40:36]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
The Hollywood detective was just saying and asking me, saying, oh, this woman was blonde, this woman was brunette. You. You just like beautiful women. You can't get them, so you kill them. That's their motive.
- [40:48]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Yeah, I think they're fishing.
- [40:50]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
That's what it sounds like. I was like, what? I've never hurt any woman over any. Just. Just into making money. I don't have problems with any women. I should write a book and publish it. What are you going to call it? Wrongfully accused.
- [41:06]
Dr. Michelle Ward
Michael's typical of many killers of course he didn't do it, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Michael is setting patterns that will expose him as a danger, dangerous predator, a killer who meticulously targets and stalks young women before butchering them in the most horrific way. Coming up this season on Mind of a Monster, the Hollywood Ripper.
- [41:34]
Ad Host (Elise Hu / Various Ads)
I had never, ever felt that type of energy before. It was, it was cold, it was not friendly, it was not welcoming.
- [41:45]
Frank Main
She said, how did you get in here? Where'd you get that key? Get the out of here. These killings in Los Angeles wouldn't have happened if he was in prison in Illinois.
- [41:54]
Michael Gargiulo's Teenage Friend
I just remembered being like, God, this guy who I, I really kind of looked up to and valued my friendship with could be such a hideous monster.
- [42:04]
Ad Host (Elise Hu / Various Ads)
He's so confident that she's not going to scream.
- [42:06]
Dr. Michelle Ward
He's so confident in his ability to brutally murder somebody. Mind of a Monster the Hollywood Ripper is produced by Aeromedia, a Freemantle company for I D. I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Ward. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts and we'd love it if you could take a second to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts.
- [42:33]
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Dr. Michelle Ward
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Dr. Michelle Ward
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