S6 Ep.4: Your Job Is To Protect and Serve

Summary

Mind of a Monster: The Butcher Baker

S6 Ep.4: Your Job Is To Protect and Serve

Date: January 30, 2024
Host: Dr. Michelle Ward

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Episode Overview

In this riveting fourth episode of "Mind of a Monster: The Butcher Baker," Dr. Michelle Ward deepens the investigation into the Robert Hansen case, shifting focus to the 1983 push to bring the elusive serial killer to justice in Anchorage, Alaska. The episode weaves together the perspectives of law enforcement, survivors, and their families, showing how systemic failures, victim-blaming, and departmental rivalries allowed Hansen to evade accountability for years. Central to this episode are the overlooked voices of survivors—particularly Christy Hayes—and the dogged efforts of State Trooper Glenn Flothi, whose empathetic approach becomes instrumental in constructing the case. The story climaxes with the search warrant that finally sets the net around Hansen, but not without complications.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Confirmation of a Serial Killer & Jurisdictional Tensions

• [02:12] Maxine Farrell, an Anchorage detective, reflects on the moment her suspicions of a serial killer are publicly validated with the discovery of another dancer's body on the Knik River, yet laments the lack of acknowledgment from her male colleagues.
  • Quote:
    “I didn’t need the confirmation, because I already knew it. I believed it with all my heart. That’s why I was going at it so hard.” – Maxine Farrell [02:12]
  • Farrell faces continued marginalization, noting, "Nobody. Not in my department anyway." [02:36]
• The episode highlights jurisdictional disputes: Farrell, despite her dedication, lacks authority over cases on “trooper territory,” hampering coordinated progress.

2. Sergeant Glenn Flothi Joins the Case

• [03:35] Author Leland Hale describes Flothi as methodical and deeply thoughtful—a “catalyst” and a chronicler—who inherited both tangible case files and invaluable collective memory.
  • Quote:
    “In meetings with him... there’s something more intellectual about him... a deep thinker, really methodical.” – Leland Hale [03:35]
• Flothi immediately spots the significance of transportation in the case—specifically, the necessity of a plane or boat to access Paula Goulding’s grave, steering suspicion to someone with outdoor, hunting, and aviation skills. [06:24]

3. Robert Hansen Emerges as Prime Suspect

• [07:09] Flothi pieces together prior cases, building a detailed timeline of Hansen’s record: from arson in Iowa, to shoplifting, to previous abductions and attacks, specifically Christy Hayes’ 1979 escape.
  • Quote:
    “Baker’s report made it apparent Hansen was more than a baker who had a problem with a prostitute. Made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.” – Glenn Flothi [07:09]
• Flothi battles with lost/convoluted police records, as files are being digitized, but leverages veteran officers’ memories to fill in gaps. [08:25]

4. Christy Hayes’ Survival and Systemic Neglect

• [09:45 - 25:49] The episode devotes substantial time to Christy Hayes’ firsthand account—a black dancer, barely 19, lured and attacked by Hansen but surviving a harrowing escape.
  • Her account is raw, detailed, and inflected with trauma and resilience:
    • Kidnapping, hog-tying, her daring escape through a window, and seeking help naked and wounded in a stranger’s home.
    • Quote (on the police response):
      “The police said I was promiscuous... So that shut me down. I remember yelling at him, ‘Your job is to protect and serve. Get on your job.’” – Christy Hayes [18:29]
  • Police fail to pursue her case, dismissing her due to prejudice against sex workers.
  • Long-term trauma: substance abuse, loss of her children, ongoing harassment by Hansen, and emotional toll years later.
  • [22:26] Christy’s daughter Neisha gives generational context, underscoring the impact of Christy’s trauma and the family’s ultimate resilience.
    • Quote:
      “She’s had it rough... she’s been through what people couldn’t imagine. ...I’m blessed that she survived, because if she didn’t, we wouldn’t be here.” – Neisha [23:22]
  • The episode conveys how victims like Christy and their families were systemically ignored due to occupation and race.

5. Gathering Evidence and the Role of Cindy Paulson

• [26:55 - 36:42]
  • Flothi recounts how neither Christy’s nor other prior cases could “make him the murderer,” increasing the urgency to win the trust of a fresh witness—Cindy Paulson, whose 1983 ordeal provided live leads.
  • The challenge: the police had summarily dismissed Cindy’s account after just 11 days.
    • Quote:
      “Sure, the police went to her. She didn’t come to the police. ...Finally she told the police what happened. What do they do? They kick her in the head.” – Glenn Flothi [30:27]
  • Flothi builds genuine rapport with Cindy, meeting her on her own hours, treating her not as a suspect but as a person—a method he likens to being “like a dad or a father figure.”
  • Cindy’s vivid memory proves crucial; her specificity about Hansen’s house supports search warrant applications.
    • Quote:
      “She was able to articulate very well, better than any witness I’ve ever had... I guess when your life is on the line, you remember a lot.” – Glenn Flothi [35:22]

6. Sexism and Institutional Hurdles

• [36:42] Maxine Farrell’s files and knowledge become pivotal, but her own department blocks her further involvement out of pride and sexism.
  • Quote:
    “He didn’t want me to have anything to do with the case anymore. I was pissed.” – Maxine Farrell [37:16]
  • Farrell, however, ensures that her meticulously compiled files on missing girls reach Flothi.
• Flothi, with D.A. Pat Dugan, builds on these records for the all-important search warrant.

7. Final Push: Search and Interrogation

• [41:10 - End]
  • On October 27th, 1983, a coordinated raid sweeps Hansen’s house, bakery, car, and plane. Farrell is invited by Flothi—against her supervisor’s wishes—because she can identify victims’ jewelry and mementos.
  • The search scene is tense and traumatic, especially for Hansen’s wife and children.
    • Quote:
      “Anybody who has children, witnessing a wife and children going through this... can imagine what heartache it would bring.” – Maxine Farrell [43:53]
  • Hansen, at the station, is interrogated using a soft-approach, lured into small talk and only slowly pressed about his criminal past. He repeats the same “money dispute” defense used in prior attacks.
  • Meanwhile, the search for the murder weapon—the .223 rifle—hits a snag; it is missing from Hansen’s usual hiding place.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being ignored by her colleagues:
  “Nobody. Not in my department anyway.” – Maxine Farrell [02:36]

• On the moment suspicion crystallizes:
  “Until then, the plane had not become king. That was the blinding light.” – Glenn Flothi [07:25]

• Christy Hayes on victim-blaming and police neglect:
  “Your job is to protect and serve. Get on your job.” – Christy Hayes [18:29]

• Neisha on generational trauma:
  “All we can do is love her and support her how we can.” – Neisha [25:49]

• Flothi on Cindy Paulson’s importance:
  “I needed her support for these other victims that were never supported. I needed her to stop this killer from killing these innocent people. So I needed her badly, not for my own gratification, but for theirs.” – Glenn Flothi [36:10]

• On institutional sexism:
  “I was pissed.” – Maxine Farrell [37:16]

• Farrell on the search scene:
  “As I look up at the window, there’s a wife and the two children looking out... The little girl is just standing there, tears running down her face, and the little boy’s scared out of his mind.” – Maxine Farrell [43:53]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:12–02:36] – Farrell reflects on lack of respect and confirmation from colleagues
• [03:35–04:40] – Introduction of Glenn Flothi and his approach
• [09:45–18:57] – Christy Hayes’ history: abduction, escape, and failed police response
• [23:22–25:49] – Neisha (Christy’s daughter) discusses family’s experiences and legacy
• [30:06–32:51] – Flothi’s rapport-building with Cindy Paulson
• [35:12–36:10] – The importance of Cindy’s memory and testimony
• [36:42–37:45] – Farrell’s struggles with department leadership and handover to Flothi
• [41:10–43:53] – Conducting the search at Hansen’s home; family trauma
• [44:39–49:34] – Interrogation of Hansen, repeated alibis, and the missing murder weapon

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Tone & Storytelling

The episode, in Dr. Michelle Ward’s compassionate and incisive style, seamlessly blends police procedural details with survivor testimony, drawing out the systemic nature of both negligence and persistent advocacy. The language remains raw and candid, especially in first-hand accounts. Rather than sensationalizing Hansen’s crimes, the podcast spotlights the lifelong impacts on survivors and their families—while acknowledging the institutional failures and sexism that prolonged the hunt for justice.

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Conclusion

Episode 4 skillfully illustrates the laborious path to justice in the Butcher Baker case: hard-won trust with survivors, piecing together scattered evidence, and the human cost of professional and institutional indifference. The episode ends with a pivotal cliffhanger—the murder weapon is missing—and the sense that the net around Hansen, though tightening, is still precarious. Throughout, the voices of those harmed and those who persisted underscore the real cost and difficult victories in confronting serial violence.

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Note: All advertisements, promos, and non-content sections have been omitted for clarity and focus.

Transcript

[Glenn Flothi]

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[Christy Hayes]

Hi, I'm Morgan. I have three kids.

[Glenn Flothi]

I have an IQ of 160.

[Christy Hayes]

I work with the cops.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You're a cop?

[Christy Hayes]

No, but they do sign my paychecks.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

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[Glenn Flothi]

She was abducted. You knew that already, didn't you?

[Christy Hayes]

Yeah, I thought it'd be nice to.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

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[Glenn Flothi]

You're waiting on me to leave so you can poke around without a warrant, aren't you?

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

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[Glenn Flothi]

But I'd like to offer one other perk.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

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[Glenn Flothi]

Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Came in at $45 for 3 month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com this podcast explores themes of murder and rape. Listener discretion is advised. For years, Detective Maxine Farrell has been the only police officer in Anchorage, Alaska, sure that a serial killer is at work. Troopers confirm a second body of a dancer has been found on the Knick River. Now a body of a young dancer has been found on the Knick river. Killed in exactly the same way as another dancer, Sherry Morrow, who was discovered just a year before. A police source says there are still many more girls missing. How did it feel to have confirmation that you're right? There is indeed a serial murder operating right now.

[Maxine Farrell]

I didn't need the confirmation, you know, because I already knew it. I believed it with all my heart. That's why I was going at it so hard.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Are you thinking, okay, now things are going to be moving forward?

[Christy Hayes]

Yeah.

[Maxine Farrell]

I thought they would move forward. Everybody else had to pay attention now and we had to get more things going on to get this guy.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Do you get anybody saying, damn, Maxine, you were right.

[Maxine Farrell]

Nobody. Not in my department anyway.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

This is Mind of a the Butcher BAKER and I'm Dr. Michelle Ward. In this seven part series, we're in 1980s Alaska to unravel a serial murder case that spans over a decade. This is episode four. Your job is to protect and serve. It's September 1983 and it looks like Maxine has been right all along. A serial killer is at large, but she's still relatively powerless because as a detective in the Anchorage Police Department, she has no jurisdiction over the bodies on the Kinnik River. They are on Alaska State trooper territory. And after a year of no new leads on the Sherry Morrow case, a new guy is put in charge. His name is Sergeant Glenn Flothi.

[Leland Hale]

In my meetings with him and face to face, he's kind of professorial. There's something more intellectual about him. You know, somebody who, you know, had on his chin really deep thinker, really thinking through stuff, really methodical.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Author Leland Hale met Glenn flothi in the 1980s. And I've got this picture of Glenn here. He's thin and really tall. He's got this thick brown mustache and these wire rim aviator glasses. He's hard to describe. He has almost an earnest look to him. Leland, he doesn't look like I would imagine a police sergeant to look.

[Leland Hale]

No, he did not. He was actually already known as a good homicide investigator. He'd originally been in Fairbanks and he had four, five, six cases that he, you know, he brought to fruition. And it was, it was really his ability to put people at ease and get them to talk and not always in a confrontational cop stuff.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Glenn's still alive, but he doesn't do media interviews. He's put all of this behind him and that's where he'd like it to stay. And I get that he threw all of himself into this case. And as we go farther into the story, I think you'll start to understand. But we have managed to get access to some transcripts of interviews with Glenn from 1984 that have never been made public before now. So when you hear Glenn's voice as the story goes on, it's an actor reading from those transcripts. In September 1983, Glenn joined Sergeant Lyle Haugsven on the case.

[Glenn Flothi]

I see myself as a catalyst. I think that's where my ability lies. And another thing I want to point out That I feel strongly about. Lyle gave the best he could. He himself as a human being was as emotionally involved and charged in the case as I was, perhaps in a different way.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Glenn starts by looking at the case notes from the latest body who's been identified as 31 year old dancer Paula Goulding. I've got some of those case notes in front of me now and there's one key observation here. The report reads, quote, scene. The gravesite is located on a slough flowing south on the west side of the Knick river. The area is remote and can be reached by airplane and shallow draft boats. End quote. Both Cheri Morrow and Paula Goulding were shot in the chest and 223 casings are discovered in their graves. But there is one big difference between the two. Sherry's body is next to farmland and accessible by vehicle. To get to Paula Goulding's gravesite, you have to fly or boat. Boat into it. Author Leland Hale.

[Leland Hale]

So now this, this sort of changes the tenor of what they're looking for. You know, they're looking for someone probably who's a hunter, right? Who knows this area from hunting here. Now that's not a small population in Alaska, but it's not the whole, you know, it's not all of Anchorage.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Glenn also inherits the file from Anchorage police department cop Greg Baker with details of the Cindy Paulson case. The 17 year who claimed to have been held captive and raped in a house, then driven to Merrill airfield to be taken out to the wilderness on a plane. Greg's prime suspect is Robert C. Hansen, the owner of said plane.

[Glenn Flothi]

Baker's report made it apparent that Hansen was more than a baker who had a problem with a prostitute. Made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Putting these two pieces together is what Glenn remembers as the moment that would set him on a quest for justice.

[Glenn Flothi]

Until then, the plane had not become king. That was the blinding light.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Glenn is convinced Hanson is his man, but he knows that what he has so far is no more than a strong hunch. Leland, you can't put someone away for owning a plane, right?

[Leland Hale]

So it's not enough to bring murder charges because at the early point all they have is, is shell casings and they have this history of bad incidents with women. He needs a search warrant to go into Hansen's house and find the weapon because they need to tie this, these shell casings to a person who owns the weapon.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

But that's no easy task either. You got to convince a district attorney and a judge that you need the.

[Leland Hale]

Warrant, of course, that's the case here.

[Glenn Flothi]

From then on, we dug up everything we could on Bob Hanson, Glenn Flothi.

[Leland Hale]

He had to go digging deep to pull out all those case materials because some of the records about Hanson were not available. They were not available because the Alaska state troopers was in the midst of converting everything to a computer record. And so they literally taken the paper files and they were scanning them and digitizing them. And so they weren't all available. But because this guy Hansen had been around Alaska and been in the police viewfinder since at least 1971, there were these memories. And Flothi considers himself kind of like the chronicler. So when they started to tell him, oh, I remember that guy. Oh, I remember that guy.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Flothi starts to build a detailed picture of Hansen's past record. He receives the arson reports from Iowa. He talks to Ron Rice about the Susan Hepburn and Patty Roberts cases in 1971 and discovers the shoplifting of a chainsaw in 1975. He also digs up another case, that of black dancer Christy Hayes, who was abducted in 1979 but managed to escape Sergeant Floff.

[Christy Hayes]

And there was another guy. They came to my house, knocked on my door. They didn't call me. They knocked on my door and asked me, will I come and look at some pictures? I said yes.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Christy has never spoken to any media before. We've brought her into a conference room in downtown Anchorage, where she still lives. Christy's set up with a can of soda under bright overhead lights, looking more than a little nervous. She appears a lot younger than her 63 years with this beautiful smooth skin and a huge smile. I want to start with, are you originally from Anchorage?

[Christy Hayes]

I'm originally from Klamath Falls, Oregon. I came up here through Talents west on a dancing gig.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Oh, you came up through Talents West. I didn't know that.

[Christy Hayes]

Yes.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So this really is news to me. You'll remember that Talents west is the organization that was bringing young women to Anchorage on contracts that required them to pay back their airfare and to pay them rent. When Talents west contacted you, what did they tell you about coming up there?

[Christy Hayes]

They said that I would have shelter income, and I signed this waiver, so if I backed out, there'd be problems, and that's how I got tricked up here.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You felt you were tricked?

[Christy Hayes]

Yes. I worked at the Embers nightclub.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

How old were you when you began dancing there?

[Christy Hayes]

I was 19.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Did you feel safe working at Embers?

[Christy Hayes]

No. Pretty much. There was a lot of pimps in control of the Girls, it's something that I just never got into. I don't like the way they beat their women into submission. So with me, the pimps, they never got along. They threatened me all the time.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So imagine a young girl in this whirlwind of chaos. Add to that that Christy is black, one of just a handful of black people living in Anchorage at the time. It could not have been easy. Then on October 14, 1979, this one guy walks into the Emperor's Club.

[Christy Hayes]

He came into the club and my boss just kept walking right by me because there's a customer over there. He said, it's about time to get a little. Get more friendly, go offer him a drink at a table dance. And I did. He was all. It was hard to look at him face to face because he had so many pocket marks on his face. His face was infested with acne, really bad acne. And those glasses that he had on was so thick and big.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So you give him a table dance. And what happens after that?

[Christy Hayes]

Be patient with me because my mind is scattered. You know, I lost. I had amnesia for a while. And you know how that stuff, when you get amnesia, it starts to come back and you get little pieces of this, these little pieces of that. And it comes to me in dream form.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Christy has PTSD and she gets flashbacks all the time. This incident still haunts her.

[Christy Hayes]

I was coming out of the club that one night and he was waiting outside. And before we had talked inside, he said he had some jewelry if I was interested in buying. And that was a sucker for that. So I said, yeah. And he was just in the back of my camper. I followed him to the camper. He opened the door, he pulled out a.44 magnum, nickel plated magnum on me. He says, back up, don't scream and take off all your clothes. I'm like, what? Because I mean it, take off all your clothes or off, you won't be done. And I did. I was just petrified. It was so. I was just petrified. And I proceeded to take off my clothes.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So at this moment you're thinking what?

[Christy Hayes]

I was just so scared. I didn't feel anything. I'm just so scared. Submit. That's what was going through my mind. And he put the snare wires on my wrist, then lifted me up and put me in this bed and tied my feet to my hands backwards. And so he proceeded to hog tied me. And I still have some of the marks on my wrist from where he had hog tied me.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Hogtied. You've seen that before. It means that Christy had her hands tied to her feet behind her back. It's how you tie up an animal by all four legs. Now, at this point, you're tied up, you're naked, he doesn't rape you. And what do you think that was about?

[Christy Hayes]

Yeah, this is. This is it. This is it. Because you're gonna rape me. You're gonna rape me already. But you tied me up with Snare wash. That means you're gonna kill me. This is what's going through my mind.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So now he starts driving. What are you feeling?

[Christy Hayes]

Panic. I. The more I moved, the tighter the the wires got. And I finally said the Lord's Prayer and I seen like a flash and the wire snapped. Wow. I was scrambling to get the wires off me. And when he turned and looked in the window and see me escaping, he put the brakes on. I went flying to the other side of the camera and hit my face face first. That's where that dip in my bone comes from. The scars pretty much gone away, but you could feel the bone. I went flying and went unconscious for a while. When I woke up, he had stopped.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Remember here that we're in a camper. Hansen has just gotten out of the driver's seat and he's walking around to the back where Christy is completely naked. There's a small window between her and the driver's cab up front.

[Christy Hayes]

So I've got the wires off of my wrists and my feet, and I opened up that window that separates the camper from the cab and crawled right through there, slammed it back shut and locked it and locked both sides, the passenger side and the driver's side.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Oh, you are smart. Because now he can't slide open that window and he can't get in the doors.

[Christy Hayes]

And so then I. I was looking for the key, so I put my hand up where the ignition is and they were gone. He came back around to the passenger side and said, open the door. Open the door. I was like, no. I was screaming and screaming and screaming. I was screaming, you're trying to kill me. And he put his fist through the window and broke it on the driver's side.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Wow. So he busts through the glass and now you're screwed again. Now you need to make a choice.

[Christy Hayes]

I ran out of the passenger side. I escaped running butt naked through rocks and sticks and trees and barbed wire. And I came up on this fence, this. This chain link fence. And I went over that fence. Don't ask me how. Left this barbed wire.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You were probably running so fast I flew.

[Christy Hayes]

Maybe I grew wings.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You grew wings?

[Christy Hayes]

I grew wings. I had to get over there. And I landed up in the back of this lady's yard or the front yard. And I beat on the door. Help. Please help me. Call the police. And they snatched the door open. And I'm standing there butt, ass naked. And it was a meeting with Jehovah Witnesses.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

That was the shock of their life, too. The house Christy's talking about, it's just about as suburban as you could possibly imagine. It has a double garage and two levels with a slate roof. And the woman who opens the door, the Jehovah's Witness, Mildred Johnson, she opens it to a naked, bleeding 19 year old.

[Christy Hayes]

They gave me a robe. I kept telling them to turn the lights out because he's out there and he has a gun. And they kept saying, jehovah's going to protect us. Jehovah's going to protect us. Nobody's going to hurt you.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

The Jehovah Witnesses call the police. And they arrive at the house. I have the police report right here. And it says the officer contacted the black female who identified herself as Christine Hayes. The police report also states earlier that evening, Christy had met a Caucasian man in the bar and agreed to have a date with him when she got off work. The man paid her $110 in advance.

[Christy Hayes]

The police said I was promiscuous. He said, you're being promiscuous. All the girls out here are promiscuous. That's what they said. So that shut me down. I remember yelling at him, I said, you job is to protect and serve. Get on your job. I just wanted him to take me back to the club. Just take me back to the club. I wouldn't even go to the hospital. I went the next day and I had cracked ribs and everything else just tore up.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

According to the police report, the officers find the broken glass and tire marks on the road vital evidence of Kristi's attack. But that is as far as the Investigation goes until six months later, on March 23, 1980. Christy is dancing this time at the Busch Company, and the guy who attacked her walks in. Did you guys call the police?

[Christy Hayes]

I think we did. And I got in trouble for that, for bringing the police in. I got in trouble for that, for the house, Mother. She says, that's what we have bounces for.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

The police report for this night says Hayes told the officer that the man who had assaulted her several months before was there. She pointed out a Caucasian male in the bar that the officer Identified as Robert C. Hansen, Hansen agrees to come down to the apd, and this same officer interviews him. Now, what happens next on the police report? You've heard it before, several times. It's almost painful to hear it again. Hansen says Hayes then stripped off her clothes and she performed oral sex on him. Hansen said that Hayes then demanded $75 from him, which he refused to pay since no one had mentioned money before. He said that Hayes then got upset and started screaming, causing him to panic and throw her out the back door of his camper.

[Christy Hayes]

Yep.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

He tells the same story about a money dispute. And the officer at the apd, what does he do? He doesn't press charges. He doesn't continue on the investigation. Hansen walks free. This incident had a profound impact on Christy's life. And what follows is a very confused time.

[Christy Hayes]

I want to turn to alcohol really bad and drugs. I lost my kids during fighting with ocs. They didn't think I was competent, so I turned over custody to my mother. So she raised them mostly.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

I bet a lot of that has to do with what you went through. You know, none of us are going to get through that without major repercussions. You've been the victim of a horrible crime, and nobody supported you. Add to that between 1980 and 83, Christy is convinced Hansen is following her.

[Christy Hayes]

If he mistake the place, the places that I lived at, because the neighbor said there's a camper outside and he keeps pop, pop pulling up in front of your door, getting out, pretending that he's some kind of locksmith or something. When I got home, the door had been kicked off the hinges, but our drugs were there, our little speed tablets were there, Our money was there, Narcotics was there. Nothing was missing.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

There's a particular incident that Kristi remembers when she saw Hanson outside her door and he saw her.

[Christy Hayes]

This is on Flower street in Mountain View. And he was doing something, trying to pick the lock to get in. The dogs were right on the other side of the the door, and I wanted to see why they were on put on guard. And I peeked out the window and knocked the ironing board over. And he turned around real quick. He seen me and I seen him, and he fled. So I called the police, which never came.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

We don't have any further police reports about these incidents, maybe because, as Christy says, they never showed up. But we do have another perspective on Christy's experience. Hello. Hi, Nisha. Oh, nice to meet you. I'm calling Neisha, Christy's daughter, on video chat. She was born during this period in 1981, and is the eldest of Christy's five children. So when did you first find out about what had happened to your mom? I was an adult, tried not to bring it up too much and let her be the one to bring it up just because of how sensitive the subject was. She's had a very rough, rough young adult, you know, all the way up until now. She's had it rough, you know, and she's been through a lot. She's been through what people couldn't imagine.

[Christy Hayes]

I think maybe the drugs, you know.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Was a coping mechanism to not think about it. Neisha is as beautiful as her mom and has a calm, considered presence. As we chat, her sweet, gray and white pit bull lies behind her in what I can only describe as blissful sleep. I'm blessed that she did survive, because if she didn't, we wouldn't be here, you know, and so I think that makes us stronger. Kind of like, you know, rainbow children.

[Christy Hayes]

If you will, kind of, in a way.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

When did you go and live with your grandmother? I think we went when I was about six, about six or seven. Like, I don't remember a lot of stuff. When you go, you know, grow up.

[Christy Hayes]

In a fast, you know, not so.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Good childhood, you don't.

[Christy Hayes]

You kind of.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Kids kind of delete or, you know, put those memories in the back, you know, where they're.

[Christy Hayes]

You just don't remember.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Wow, I cannot imagine. That must have been so hard on all of you. And I need to check one more thing with you. I know that your mom was attacked in 1979, but she says that Hansen continued to harass her in the 80s.

[Christy Hayes]

He did. My dad witnessed it.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So he was like.

[Christy Hayes]

He was.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

What's the word? Called stalking. My mom, Neisha's father passed away a couple of years ago, but before he did, he told her about Hanson. Following Kristi, he was able to break into their house. And he went into her dresser. He pulled her underwear.

[Christy Hayes]

And my dad.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

My dad told me that he had.

[Christy Hayes]

To watch out for her.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You know, I remember my mom and dad saying that they reported him and they. They reached out to the police several times and nothing was. Nothing happened. Why do you think that is? They didn't care because these women were, to them, you know, bottom feeders. So they didn't. They weren't worth enough. You know, if it was a regular teenager or high class, then there probably would have made a little bit more moves, but not for those group of young adults. In the experience she went through not being listened to again. And again, this still haunts your mom. Now, she's been drug free, you know, she's come a long, long way. But she's very fragile, you know, mentally wise, you know, just because she's been through a lot. So all we can do is love her and support her how we can.

[Christy Hayes]

I'm proud of her.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You know, speaking to Neisha, it strikes me that Kristi's story, the ending of it, lies with her kids. Despite their hard upbringing, all five of Christy's children, none of them followed their parents into the street life. They're all holding down jobs and raising kids. They're all doing really well.

[Christy Hayes]

Thank you.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Thank you guys for listening to me.

[Christy Hayes]

And doing this interview for my mom.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

I think that this is part of closure for her as well. Lacy, you see that? Oh, my. Look at that baby. Nisha points the camera one last time at her sleeping pit bull. I just want to boop her nose. I love her. You guys have a good day. You too. Take care. Stay warm. Back in 1983, Glenn Flothi is the first person who truly listens to Christy's story and takes her seriously. She agrees to testify against Hansen in court if it becomes necessary, as does Patty Roberts. But it's still not enough.

[Glenn Flothi]

I mean, there's just still wasn't tight enough. That still doesn't make him the murderer. So we knew we needed a little more.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Author Leland Hale.

[Leland Hale]

Certainly how the criminal justice system works in the United States, and I suspect elsewhere, it's like, these are old cases. You can't just string a bunch of old cases together. You know, when we investigate stuff, it's new, it's fresh, the evidence is hot.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

So given that, it becomes really important to get Cindy Paulson on board. Right, because her case is fresh. It's just a couple months old.

[Christy Hayes]

Right.

[Leland Hale]

She's like, she's the link between this history, his past, and now. And so this is not just a one off, this is no accident.

[Christy Hayes]

Hi, I'm Morgan. I have three kids.

[Glenn Flothi]

I have an IQ of 160.

[Christy Hayes]

I work with the cops.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You're a cop?

[Christy Hayes]

No, but they do sign my paychecks.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Caitlin Olsen returns in High Potential, the number one drama.

[Glenn Flothi]

She was abducted. You knew that already, didn't you? Yeah, I thought it'd be nice to.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Let you have this one. And one of the best new crime procedurals.

[Glenn Flothi]

You're waiting on me to leave so you can poke around without a warrant, aren't you?

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Yeah. High potential. New Tuesdays, 10, 9 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Glenn Flothi]

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[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month.

[Glenn Flothi]

But I'd like to offer one other perk.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

We have no stores. That means no small talk.

[Glenn Flothi]

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[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

It's just weather.

[Glenn Flothi]

It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Of $45 for three month plan $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. Seemintmobile.com A mochi moment from Sadie who writes I'm not crying. You're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Mayra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Sadie is a Mochi member compensated for her story.

[Glenn Flothi]

I read her statement and I was very intrigued to meet this person.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Early October 1983 Sergeant Glenn Flothi is convinced a local baker named Robert C. Hansen is behind the murders of two dancers found on the Knick River. But to obtain a search warrant of Hansen's home, he needs the testimony of a young sex worker, Cindy Paulson, who claims Hansen kidnapped and raped her four months prior.

[Glenn Flothi]

Sure, I wanted to meet this person to get a witness for the case, but from reading her statement, you could tell she was uneducated but with a lot of street smarts, been a prostitute since she was 13 or 14 years old. There was a sense of feeling in her, a sense of honesty, a sense of caring. And there was a human being that was dwindling away, human being that was rotting away. But there was a core that was very sensitive, a sense of right. Sure, the police went to her. She didn't come to the Police afterwards. But finally she told the police what happened. What do they do? They kick her in the head.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

As you can tell, Fluti doesn't mince words about how the police handled Cindy's case in June of 1983. They closed it after just 11 days.

[Glenn Flothi]

Before Hanson could say, well, yeah, I was with that prostitute, but the fucking shit. She wanted more money, and now what is she doing? She's putting some heat on me. That's she got what she deserved. And the cops would buy that. Look how many times the police have screwed up. Look at how many times they bought the story.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

To change the narrative, Flothi needs Cindy. But after her case was dropped by the Anchorage police department, Cindy melted back into street life, and there's no guarantee she'll testify. How was he able to track her down?

[Leland Hale]

He's in this lone warrior mode. You know, he's not even in the office. He's taken on the hours of these women that are, you know, that work in the streets. He's found that if you're out there, when they're out there, they're more likely to talk to you. And, of course, you have more opportunities to build trust.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

With some help from street cops. Flothi finds Cindy working in a massage parlor in Anchorage.

[Glenn Flothi]

She's out on the street sleeping with pimps, hustling people, giving her jobs in the car for 15 bucks, being provided by her pimp at parties. Just incredible things these women do as a matter of course in life. It's unreal. And then, on the other hand, she reminded me a lot of my daughter at that time. She was 11 going on 12. She had that little girl in her. She was a little girl that never grew up.

[Leland Hale]

So, you know, he's looking at all this and said, I have to befriend her, so I can't lecture her. I can't be a cop, but I'm going to try to be like a dad or a father figure. And so he would have what he called coffee clatches, where they would just meet for coffee, and they would not talk about the case.

[Glenn Flothi]

She talks about teddy bears and stuffed toys and wanting the things that she never had as a child. She came from a broken family. She was passed around. So she started running around with some kids on the street, got hooked up with a pimp. He took her in, and she never had. Didn't have nothing as a kid. So this pimp gave her everything, Drove around a big fancy Lincoln, you know, gave her nice fancy clothes, gave her nice jewelry. And yet when you sit down and talk to her. What she wants is to go see Portage Glacier. She wants to go to Disneyland and see Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck and ride on the rides. She wants to go to Fun World and slide down the water slides. That's exactly the stuff my daughter talks about. So I had to build some trust with her. That is, she knew I was willing to accept her faults, and I was not going to try to punish her for it.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Only two weeks after Flothi is assigned to the case, Cindy agrees to come down to the state trooper office to give a recorded interview about her experience.

[Glenn Flothi]

Is there anything else that this man told you that you can remember that you can tell me? Any comments that he made?

[Christy Hayes]

Octacuff type things? Just how he said, you know, there was seven other girls. You know, it really trips me out what happened to them. 7.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

This is the same recorded interview you heard earlier in this series. And the guy who's talking to her, that's the real Glenn Flothi. She's talking about the seven other girls that Hansen told her he had kidnapped before.

[Christy Hayes]

You think you know now? Yeah, I think my mom did.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Yes, she says, I think I know he killed them.

[Christy Hayes]

You thought you'd never see anybody again.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You might recall that in this interview. Cindy remembers so many details. The road, the layout of the basement, the color of the house.

[Christy Hayes]

There was fish, there was wolf skins, there were stuffed animals everywhere.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Well, Glen asks her about it afterward.

[Glenn Flothi]

She was able to articulate very well. In fact, better than any witness I've ever had on any case as to remembering what in the hell had happened. I asked her that later on because even average, intelligent people don't remember things like that. Of course, I guess when your life is on the line, you're gonna remember a lot. But she told me her sister was a deaf mute. And so when she grew up, her sister had to learn a lot intuitively. So she learned to share things with her sister in a way. Her sister would like feeling or touching a glass or feeling and experiencing or something like that. And that's how she explained to me as to how she developed this memory skill thing.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

It's that incredible memory that Flothi thinks will be vital to a successful trial.

[Glenn Flothi]

I needed her support for these other victims that were never supported. I needed her to stop this killer from killing these innocent people. So I needed her badly, not for my own gratification, but for theirs. And I think she understood that.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

At the same time, Glenn begins to secure witnesses like Cindy Paulson and Kristi Hayes. He hears about the work Detective Maxine Farrell has put together on her own steam at the Anchorage Police Department.

[Maxine Farrell]

Glenn's always a wonderful cop. I knew him quite a while before. He's a very silent guy, and, you know, the guy that you would see with glasses studying things and very serious person. When he decided to take the case, he came down and asked what I had because he knew I was investigating so much. Floethe asked for me to be on the task force, and he asked me for actually. And then he went to one of my lieutenants, and I was, I'm ready to go. You know, it's my case. And.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

And what stopped you?

[Maxine Farrell]

One of my lieutenants said, no, she's too busy. And I said, busy, what? He shook his head. He just. He didn't want me to have anything to do with the case anymore. I was pissed.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Why would your lieutenant stop you from working on this case when you had more information than anybody?

[Maxine Farrell]

Because they're so damn proud. You know, they had put it down so much that they had to save face. I mean, I don't know what they were trying to do. I was devastated by that.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Maxine hands over her files on the missing girls, which, as you might remember, contains dental records, family contact details, descriptions of jewelry and clothing. It's with this information and the detailed case histories of Kristy, Patty, and Cindy that Glenn starts to build his search warrant with Assistant District attorney Pat Dugan, author Leland Hale.

[Leland Hale]

You know, Glenn would essentially pull out the records, say, this one, this one, this one, this one, and talk to Dugan. And Dugan then would type it up and put it in legal language.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

But the icing on the cake comes in two forms. The first is evidence of insurance fraud. Remember those big game trophies lining the walls in Hanson basement? Well, Hansen had reported those stolen in 1982 and claimed $13,000 of insurance for them. But as Cindy could testify herself, the game heads were still on his wall. The second is that Glenn asks the FBI to create a profile of a possible suspect using case files on Sherry Morrow, Paula Goulding, and Cindy Paulson. What they come back with fits Hanson.

[Leland Hale]

To a T. And so after several iterations, they were able to get that in front of a judge. And then the judge was like, yeah, no, no question.

[Christy Hayes]

Hi, I'm Morgan. I have three kids.

[Glenn Flothi]

I have an IQ of 160.

[Christy Hayes]

I work with the cops.

[Leland Hale]

You're a cop?

[Glenn Flothi]

No, but they do sign my paychecks.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Caitlin Olsen returns in high potential. The number one drama.

[Glenn Flothi]

She was abducted. You knew that already, didn't you?

[Christy Hayes]

Yeah, I thought it'd be nice to.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Let you have this one. And one of the best new crime procedurals.

[Glenn Flothi]

You're waiting on me to leave so you can poke around without a warrant, aren't you?

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Yeah. High potential. New Tuesdays 10, 9 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu Mint is still.

[Glenn Flothi]

$15 a month for premium wireless.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should.

[Christy Hayes]

1.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

It's $15 a month. 2. Seriously, it's $15 a month. 3. No big contracts.

[Christy Hayes]

4. I use it.

[Glenn Flothi]

5. My mom uses it.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Are you. Are you playing me off?

[Glenn Flothi]

That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com emoji moment from Sadie who writes I'm not crying. You're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Sadie is a Mochi member, compensated for her story.

[Glenn Flothi]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

It's a pitch black, freezing morning on October 27th as Glenn Flothi assembles his task force for the time first final push.

[Glenn Flothi]

Everyone was walking on eggshells that morning. Everyone was saying, glenn, you'd better be right.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

The plan is to serve simultaneous search warrants for Hansen's house, bakery, car and plane.

[Leland Hale]

It's like a six part orchestra, right? They hit all of them simultaneously because they don't want anybody to make a call and say the cops are here. Hurry, throw it out. No, we're all here.

[Glenn Flothi]

We knew we would only have one shot at him. Once he knew we were on to him, we would never get another chance.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

It's 6:30 in the morning. Two troopers sit outside Hansen's Bakery on alert, waiting for him to finish work. Another set of troopers prepare to leave headquarters to go to Hansen's house. Alongside them are APD cops Greg Baker and Maxine Farrell.

[Maxine Farrell]

Flossie didn't even ask if I could come along on the search. He just told me to be there.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Just come along. You're coming. I'm not asking your supervisor. I'm asking you.

[Maxine Farrell]

And I said, sure, I'll be there.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

The FBI has told Flothi that if Hansen is a serial killer, he may have kept mementos of his victims, like jewelry. And Flothi knows Maxine is the one to identify it.

[Maxine Farrell]

I was going to go to the end of this because I had to see it come to an end, because.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

You are a warrior.

[Maxine Farrell]

Must be the Indian in me.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

I'm sure it is. You're walking into Robert Hanson's house. What are you feeling?

[Maxine Farrell]

As I look up at the window, there's a wife and the two children looking out the window at all these police cars pulling up. I'm saying, this is going to be a tough one.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

And that was Darla with their two kids.

[Maxine Farrell]

Yes. So they go up to the door, and she lets us in. I'm in the living room with the wife and the children, and the other guys came in behind me and went into the other rooms. And the little girl is just standing there, tears running down her face, and the little boy's scared out of his mind. Darla is just beyond words, angry and saying, why are you doing this? You know this isn't right. It was terrible. Anybody who has children, witnessing a wife and children going through this situation, can imagine what heartache it would bring, what sadness, and what an impact it would have on the children as well as a wife. I often can see that little girl standing there with the tears running down her face.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

What were your impressions of Darla?

[Maxine Farrell]

She is a very beautiful lady. She's a lady in every way. And she's so trying to be so much a wife to this man she had married and faithful to say he didn't do anything wrong, he never did anything wrong. And they're Christians, they go to church every Sunday, that kind of thing. And then she kind of broke down and said, well, look, you look at everything you want. You're not going to find anything.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

As the house search starts in earnest, a search warrant is served at Hansen's bakery. Hansen himself voluntarily agrees to go with troopers back to headquarters for an interview where Glenn Flothi has set quite the scene.

[Glenn Flothi]

One of the reasons the FBI came up was we anticipated getting the search warrant, but we also wanted to know how to approach Robert Hanson. What are some of the techniques you might use in the interviews? We had his files with his associates written on it and a computer printout of all the information up on the wall. I have a complete map of the Knickk river area and I've got X's on it. And then circled around the entire area around where the two bodies were found. I've got a red circle so you can't miss it. And we also had photographs of the victims lying in the desk blown up. I mean these were 8 by 10 glossies of his victims. So when he comes in and sits down at the desk, you know he's looking around, you know he's looking at these things. But we ain't telling him nothing. So as far as what we know, you're surrounded and we know you're the guy you know. 901am before you open your own shop, you work for other bakeries or bakery furniture.

[Christy Hayes]

I work for safely when I first came and came to.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

The interviewer you are hearing here is sergeant Darrell Gallon. Although Flothi sometimes asks a question, Galleon takes the lead and a few minutes into this interview it's not hard to see why.

[Glenn Flothi]

Is there a lot of competition as far as the bakery business go scale?

[Christy Hayes]

Oh no, see we're not really there. If you put on a halfway decent product what there isn't competition.

[Glenn Flothi]

I think that stands to true with a lot of things and keep it on quality at a reasonable price.

[Christy Hayes]

Every few customers they're going to tell the frames you need.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Daryl is a master of non confrontational small talk. He talks like this for nearly four minutes, diverging into the intricacies of moose hunting before he slides in.

[Glenn Flothi]

Bob Eck after you get out of high school you get yourself into a.

[Christy Hayes]

Little problem back there.

[Glenn Flothi]

There's a little minor arson.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

A little minor arson. It's like a soft ambush. He has Hansen talking about his childhood, his stutter to talk to people.

[Christy Hayes]

Embarrass me the way I talk. People accept you for who you are. The ones that count and the people that don't count. It doesn't really matter.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

And then he moves in for the kill.

[Glenn Flothi]

What about the incident in December of 1987? Yeah.

[Christy Hayes]

Took the girl down to Kenai.

[Glenn Flothi]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary not available in all states. Men need a store that has the right thing for their thing. Like a Kenneth Cole suit made with Showflex fabric to keep them cool at their cousin in law's third wedding in the middle of July. Whatever the thing, men's warehouse has the clothes for it. Love the way you look. Men's warehouse back up to Sunset Lodge.

[Christy Hayes]

Back into Anchorage and drop it off.

[Glenn Flothi]

You're arrested for that.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

This is Patty Roberts, the 18 year old whose rape and kidnapping case got dropped in favor of the real estate secretary. Assault and 1971. And it started off it's just a.

[Christy Hayes]

Simple, I guess you might call sex for money proposition. We performed the act and so forth. And then, then after a while she started talking about she wanted more and more, more, more money. Going back to any information, I'm going to pay you the price that we agreed upon. And that's it.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

We've heard what Glenn Flothi thinks about Hansen's money dispute argument. So imagine him sitting here listening to Hansen in this interview using that same story again and again.

[Christy Hayes]

What happened on that? Primarily the same thing. We agreed upon a certain amount of money and then the price was supposed to be double. Oh, the green price was a green price. I'm going to pay her, not anything else.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

As this familiar refrain plays out in the interview room downtown at Hansen's house, the search is in full swing. Author Leland Hale.

[Leland Hale]

They're also really looking for any weapons, but two in particular for.357 Magnum because they think that's the weapon that Hanson used when he kidnapped Cindy Paulson. And they're looking for the.223, some kind.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Of rifle which would match the shell casings from Sherry Morrow and Paula Goulding's graves.

[Leland Hale]

Exactly right.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Greg Baker is in the basement where he first discovered a cache of hidden weapons four months earlier. Back then, he remembers seeing a.223 rifle.

[Glenn Flothi]

And then I showed him where the empty passage, the empty hollow space in the wall was so they could gather up all the weapons that he had.

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

There's a bunch of weapons still there hidden in the wall cavity. But the.223 rifle Greg is sure he he saw before, well, it's gone. And without that rifle, there is no way to connect Hansen to the murder of Paula Goulding and Sherry Morrow. Could Hansen be one step ahead of the police? On the next episode of Mind of a Monster.

[Glenn Flothi]

The Butcher Baker, I think then is finally when it hit me. I sort of got a cold chill and it was very quiet and it was oh My God. What has this man done?

[Narrator / Dr. Michelle Ward]

Mind of a Monster the Butcher Baker is produced by Aeromedia for id. The executive producer for ID is Jessica Lowther. Aeromedia's producer is Jess Leyndeveer. Editor Millie Tapner, Audio engineering by Mahoney Audio Post Our line producer is Philippa Whittle. Our production manager is Alexandra Kelly. Our junior production manager is Jodi Tanner Wilde. Our production coordinator is Shannon Tunicliffe. Our archive producer is Katia Lom. Glenn Flothi voiceover by Mike Bode and our assistant producer is Isabel Wilson. Aeromedia series producer is Gabrielle Nash and executive producer is Stuart Pender. And I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Ward. If you like this podcast, please leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps to spread the word.