Steve Nash (2:30)

Playing Some very good ball recently. What's the, what's the last thing for you, like, conditioning, legs, travel, rhythm, timing. Like, what was the, what was the last bit where you're like, oh, man, I just need a couple more days?

LeBron James (2:45)

Yeah, I think it's the, it's the travel. It's the travel and the conditioning, you know. You know you're coming back. And I was here doing the majority of my ramp up and doing the majority of my rehab and everything. And then, you know, we had our first east coast road trip. We went to Toronto, Boston and Philly. And first time in a minute that I changed time zones and, you know, things of that nature. So my sleep pattern had got messed up and, you know, routine was kind of messed up a little bit as well. So, you know, that was challenging. And then also just, you know, conditioning, you know, like I said, you know, missing those couple first few months, you know, of the season and not being able to run, not being able to condition like I'm accustomed to, you know, that, that takes away from the legs. You know, once, you know, your heart rate goes too high or you start to feel a little tired and fatigued and your mind start going and your legs go as well, so. But definitely starting to feel a lot better, you know, playing in longer spurts, being able to, you know, do the things I'm accustomed to doing.

Steve Nash (3:46)

Yeah, there's nothing like playing. Right. You can't simulate it no matter what you do.

LeBron James (3:50)

Nothing. Nothing.

Steve Nash (3:51)

Even. Even like playing in practice scrimmages is not quite like game scrimmages.

LeBron James (3:56)

Right, right.

Steve Nash (3:58)

I find it fascinating though, you brought up the travel because I think that's something we take for granted. Right. Especially if you haven't traveled for a while, like the start of the season. You always are adapting back to that journey of time zones and travel and, you know, two games and three nights or three games and four nights. Four games and five nights. Five games and seven nights. Seven games in 11 days. And then maybe having like two games in seven days and like both ways it's an adaptation, I don't know that fans sometimes understand. Like, like we struggle with that sometimes.

LeBron James (4:27)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, that was the. We had three and four nights. You know, we went on that east coast road trip. You know, we played, played Toronto on that Thursday back to back, you know, Friday in Boston and then Sunday in Philly. And then after the Philly game, we flew back to LA, which was a five hour and 45 minute flight. You know, it's definitely taxing on all of us taxing on the body, taxing on the mind, you know, going from different hotels and different elevators and all that, you know, all that notion and different climate as well. But it's, you know, it's all part of the journey, you know, but it's challenging, but it's all part of the journey. You just try to take it all in.

Steve Nash (5:04)

What do you think is the hardest? I always felt like when we flying in the west, when we went east on a road trip, then coming home west, that next game was the hardest one. You feel that too?

LeBron James (5:16)

Absolutely. Always. Always. Because you're, you're, you know, you're not on the east coast long enough to get to east coast time zone, but you're there long enough to actually get out of your, you know, your local time zone, wherever that is, you know, so it definitely messes with you. And like I said at that last game that we had in Philly, you know, we played at seven down to the wire game, we get on a plane 5 hours and 45 minutes back to LA. We don't get back to like 3:30 in the morning. So that very next day is like, you know, you're spending the next day and a half just trying to get back to normalcy. You know, your sleep pattern is off, you don't sleep well, whatever the case may be. So that whenever that next game is, if it's one day, if it's two days, if it's three days, it's just gonna be so odd and awkward. For sure.

Steve Nash (6:08)

I miss the grind. I don't miss that part of it. The five hours back home, like, be messed up for a day and then.

LeBron James (6:15)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's rough. It's rough.

Steve Nash (6:18)

Legs are gone. When you tip off, you're like, yeah, for sure. Try to find yourself for like the first quarter now.

LeBron James (6:24)

Yeah. Take you a little longer to start sweating all that type of stuff. The ball feels a little different. Like it's a little bit everything. Yeah, right.

Steve Nash (6:31)

Oh man. For sure. Well, already this season you've had a historic streak come to an end. The, the longest streak in NBA history. You went 1,297 games with scoring 10 points or more. Like, that's, that's a crazy record. That. That's your floor basically is 10 points is insane. Over the course of like almost 1300 games. Did you feel so confident in that that you just thought like, well, this is gonna last the rest of my career? Are we like, no, it could happen any night.

LeBron James (7:07)

No, I mean, for me it was never even a thought, you know, and, you know, once people start talking about it more and more every day, obviously human nature kind of kicks in. You know, I'm a guy that goes to the bench, and I like to look at the statue. I like to look at, you know, team turnovers, my personal turnovers, you know, fast break points, what we're giving up, you know, points off turnovers, whatever case may be. And I look what I'm shooting from the field. Like, I like to be super efficient. So, you know, I would be lying to say that I don't know how many points I have at any given moment of the game, but I don't go in a game. I never went into the game during the streak saying, okay, I have to get 10 points. Like, I have to keep this streak going. It would be a disservice to me in the way I play the game. And. Yeah, and it showed in how the streak ended, on how I've always played the game. It's just, how can we win? How can we win? Listen, I've done some incredible things in my career, and to be able to be. To have a streak, to be able to be mentioned with some of the greats, to be able to live out my dream, it's all just, like. It's surreal to me. So. But the one thing that's going to always be a common thing for me is just always making the right play. And for it to end in that fashion was literally just the way I was taught how to play the game, and I've always done it that way.

Steve Nash (8:32)

So for those who didn't see it late game in Toronto, Bron has eight points. How many were you down? Down two.

LeBron James (8:42)

Tie game, Tie game.

Steve Nash (8:43)

Tie game, Tie game. Bron draws a crowd. Makes a pass to Rui, I think, in the left corner. Rui hits a three for the game. Incredible pass, incredible play. Made the right play. Like you said, we talked about it before, you know, earlier in your career, you used to take heat for not taking the last shot. Yeah. Which is ridiculous. Right? Like, you got to make the right play. And so here you go again with your streak on the line. You make the right play. But so clearly you were aware you hadn't got your 10 points.

LeBron James (9:11)

Yeah, yeah, I was clearly aware. You know, I was so not in a rhythm at that point. I was. I don't even know how many. I think it may be maybe my fourth or fifth, maybe six game back. I had no rhythm offensively, but the one rhythm, I know that I will always have is the ability to draw a crowd and make and put the ball on time, on target, you know, so, you know, I had a couple shots in that game where literally I had a 3 on the right wing that would have put me up to 11 points that literally hit all the rim, hit the backboard, came back around the rim again, and then came out. I was like, okay, it's one of those nights. It's one of those nights. So, you know, the mindset has always stood to. Obviously, you know, at the end of the day, keep the main thing. The main thing, and that's just winning the game.

Steve Nash (10:01)

Yeah. Well, it was poetic that you ended your streak with a dime for game. Was there any moments during the nearly 1300 games where you're. Where it was the closest. We were like, oh, man, I got. You know, I didn't think tonight was the night.

LeBron James (10:14)

Yeah, I mean, there were some close calls, for sure. You know, I remember, you know, I had a season in which I believe. I don't know if it was 20, 21 or 22 or maybe 20, I don't know, coming out of the bubble. And I was playing the best basketball, some of the best basketball of my career, even at that stage of my career. And we were playing Atlanta, and, you know, my leg got rolled up on and, you know, and anytime that I've got, like, you know, sprained my ankle or my leg, I rolled up on or whatever, I, like, had this routine of like, okay, you feel it, but let's. Let's just tighten the shoes. Let's tighten the shoes up a little bit tighter and let's get going. And, you know, I played a little bit more through it. You know, I was in the left wing, got a pass, hit a three. I think that actually put me up to 10 points, you know, and my legs just started, like, getting really, really hot and, like, I could barely run and I had to come out of the game and, you know, basically, long story short, I think I was out maybe four to. Four to six weeks with. With a high ankle sprain. And that was one of the moments where I was like, oh, yeah, I had. They're very easy. Could have ended, you know, that night, you know, for sure. And there was a couple other moments, too, but, yeah, that was definitely one that, like, sticks out in the front of my mind.

Steve Nash (11:36)

I think that's what makes the streak so incredible, is there's so many things that can go wrong. Like, we're talking, like I said, 1297 games. Like you said in Toronto, ball gets Every part of the rim, backboard, rim and goes out. Right. Like that could have happened in any of those games where you didn't have it or whatever. But the most, I think, improbable part is that you didn't get hurt in a game before you got 10 points. That was the closest but like that to your longevity, your durability. Like that's as, as much as your floor being 10 points, so to speak. And on a really weird wacky, wild off. Right. It's also the fact that you never got like in all those games, had to leave the game before you had 10 points.

LeBron James (12:15)

Right, right. That is, you know, because I, we see, you know, a lot of our great players, you know, you know, today and in the past, whatever the case may be, have to leave the game in the first quarter, you know. You know, you know, for any, for whatever reason or second quarter, for whatever reason and you know, and you know, be under 10 points, you know, and it's, it's just weird. I'm super blessed, man. Super humbled. It's just, I, I didn't even know it was a stat. I didn't know it was a record, you know, and for me to be able to accomplish something in such an unbelievable league and with so many great players, it was just super cool.

Steve Nash (12:53)

Well, I mean you kind of made it one because you went on so long. Like I think if the, I don't know who was second, but if second is like 500 and now you're, you're like 700 something past second. Yeah, it becomes, it becomes a big deal.

LeBron James (13:05)

Right? Yeah.

Steve Nash (13:06)

I mean you're also the all time leading scorer in the league. So what? Like that's one though that you can't hide from. Right? Like that. That's a. Oh, okay. He, we project out, you know, five years at this average, he's going to, he's going to pass Kareem. Like that one must have been more of a microscope. More of a microscope. And it just builds and builds and builds. Obviously there becomes a point where, you know, that's happening. What was that like, flip side, right?

LeBron James (13:34)

And it was. I never set out a goal to be the all time lead scorer in NBA history. Like I looked at that number, you know, as a rookie, as a high school kid, as a elementary kid, middle school kid. And I was like, oh my, oh my goodness. Like that is so many points. Not only so many points, it's so many years of dominance and longevity. You know, guys are not playing that long. Guys are not playing into their 20th year or 19th year or 21st year, whatever the case may be. And as the years went on and I started to, like, you know, pass guys and pass guys, and I started to, you know, feel like my body was like not breaking down at year 15, 16, 17, and I kept climbing the ranks, you know, and then they start doing those. Well, you know, if you keep this pace up in six years, he'll be right here. If he keep this pace up in five years, if you keep this pace up in four years. And then I started. It started becoming like a realistic thing, you know, because I felt like my body was not breaking down, you know, and that. That's when it became a thing. Like, you know, you know, if you keep this pace up, if he averages his average of 27 points, 25 points a year for 65 games a season for the next four or five years, then he'll be right there. He has a chance to break it, you know. So, you know, a few years back, it was like, you know, in 35 games, 45 games, if he keeps this up, like, I was like, it started to become like, nerve wracking and also like, oh, my God, like, is this really a possibility? You know, there's certain, you know, there's certain stats in sports history that you just don't ever think that's going to be broken, and that happened to be one of them, you know, and for me to be able to accomplish that feat while not trying to accomplish the feat, I think, you know, that's even more, like, surreal to me, you know, like, I'm first all time in points, but I'm also fourth all time in assists, you know, so ahead of me, I think, maybe slightly. Yeah, so. Yeah, so it's like, wow. It's like, it's just pretty cool, man. You know, and, you know, for that moment to happen, family, friends, everybody. Kareem holds the ball to me, you know, and gives me the ball, passes it down to me like, bro, that was.

Steve Nash (16:08)

That's amazing.

LeBron James (16:09)

Unbelievable. Surreal moment. Unbelievable.

Steve Nash (16:11)

Yeah. As far as record books go, that's top. Top of the top. I have no. I have zero NBA records. I think I was. I think I was for a minute, leader in career free throw percentage. And then. Steph, Steph.

LeBron James (16:29)

Steph steps you. We talked about this a lot. With a step on our. He stepped.

Steve Nash (16:33)

You stepped me, which. Which is. Is cool. I mean, he's, you know, any. Anything to be next to him is cool for me, but, you know, I never got to the top of the assists, but I Did get to third until you and I think Chris Paul. I'm not sure if someone else, but I got to third. So. The funny thing about getting to third was they started to make a big deal out of it. You're almost third. I was Stockton, J. Kidd, Mark Jackson, and then me. And so I'm playing for the Lakers. End of my career. Body is broke. Kobe was out for the year with Achilles. I was. I played 11 games. A total struggle the whole year with nerve damage and all sorts of stuff. And so. But I wanted to play. You know, I was like, I wanted to play. And so Mike Dantoni was our coach, and they were like, well, I was playing a bit, then I'd be injured. I'd play a bit. And they're like, well, you're getting close to this assist thing. And finally they were like, hey, listen, like, you know, we're not going anywhere this year. You guys have all been hurt. We want to play the young guys. We had, like, three younger point guards, and they asked me, and I was like, I get it. Okay, I'll sit down. Well, of course, like, in a month, they all got hurt, so they're like, hey, do you want to play again? I was like, yeah, I'll play. And so I started creeping closer to this record. Not that I, you know, I thought, oh, I got another year on my contract. I'll get it at some point. So I'm getting closer. I'm getting closer, I'm getting closer, but my body is also literally falling off a cliff. Like, I. I mean, like, it's a. I could barely sit down. I could barely stand up. Like, I'm always uncomfortable. My body was a mess. So. But anyways, it comes to it, and I think I needed, like, I don't know, 7, 8, 9, 10 assists to pass Mark Jackson. And so Mike's like, hey, I know you don't feel well, but you want to just play tonight? Just play until you get the assist, and then I'll pull you out. Because it was kind of like a development year. Like, I said, we had a lot of injuries, you know, And I said, yeah, all right, let's do it. So I went out and played. I think we were playing Houston at Staples and just limping around out there. One assist, two assist, three assists, like, whatever. Finally got to whatever it was. 7, 8, 9, 10 assists in the first half, got the assist. Mike subs me out. I walk straight to the locker room, get in the cold tub, start getting treatment. And so I'm one assist ahead of Mark Jackson. Little do we know. I never played in the NBA again.

LeBron James (18:54)

Oh, wow.

Steve Nash (18:55)

Yeah. Yeah. I never played again because I came back. I didn't play the rest of the year. It was like, in March, I think.

LeBron James (19:00)

Yeah.

Steve Nash (19:01)

So March. April was banged up, didn't play, came back. And we talked about it. We talked about that Steph Curry episode.

LeBron James (19:08)

And you was like, no, no more. That's it. No Moss.

Steve Nash (19:11)

I retired in the training camp, so.

LeBron James (19:13)

What a blessing. What a blessing.

Steve Nash (19:15)

I guess. I mean, I feel bad for Mark. I mean, he got passed by a secondhand car that was about to blow up on the side of the freeway, but by one. But, I mean, it's cool to just be a part of those lists and history of the game when you love the game. I think we both feel like historians in the game in some small way. It's cool to remember those moments.

LeBron James (19:41)

No, for sure.

Steve Nash (19:42)

The people you share it with, like, passing that on to you. I mean, it doesn't really get much better than that.

LeBron James (19:48)

No, it does not. It does not. You watch the game so much, man, as a kid and read about it, and, you know, you play it outside and you. You know, you're making these moves, you counting down, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. On outdoor court, you know. You know, like, it's like. It's just a surreal moment, like, when you're able to step out on the basketball court, you know, in the NBA, you look up in the rafters, you see the guy's numbers that's retired. You see the. You know, they come to the games, you know, from time to time, and it's just, like. It's always a surreal, cool moment. And like you said to piggyback what you said, as far as your name just being, you know, in the same list right below them or above them or whatever. Whatever the case may be, you all have a key to the same house. You know, you guys all dine in the same room, and I just think that's super cool.

Steve Nash (20:34)

Yeah, for sure. Is there any of those list records things left for you? Or, like, is there one that's in your mind that's like, you think about once in a while?

LeBron James (20:44)

No, man, it's. No, it's not. No. Like, my teammates make jokes with me all the time before I go out. They always say, well, there's Gonna be another LeBron record tonight. The first guy that ties his shoestrings 100 times in the game, LeBron James. Like, they just. They say, I hold every record. The first guy that runs out of the Tunnel and don't look down or whatever. It's like there's a record for everything. So I don't know what's on the list. I don't know if I'm coming up on something or if I just kind of. I've always been that way. And, like, you know, people come up to me, like, did you know that you was so. Like the other night, I had no idea that until after the game that I passed Robert Parrish for second most wins all time.

Steve Nash (21:25)

Oh, wow. I didn't know that either.

LeBron James (21:26)

No, I promise you. People really think I'd be. I don't. I didn't know that. And they told me after the game. You know, I think that was the Philly game. I think in Philly said I passed Robert Parish for second all time and wins. And he actually sent out a pretty cool social media tweet as well, too, so that's cool. Shout out. Shout out. Big chief.

Steve Nash (21:51)

Chief.

LeBron James (21:52)

Yes.

Steve Nash (21:52)

That's amazing. So who's first? And Wednesday, if I would have to.

LeBron James (21:58)

Take a guess, I would say between maybe Kareem and Big Shot. Big Shot Bob.

Steve Nash (22:06)

Wow.

LeBron James (22:06)

I would say maybe Robert Horry or Kareem. I would say that's. That's a good question. Let's look that up.

Steve Nash (22:15)

I'm gonna look it up real quick.

LeBron James (22:16)

Yeah, look that up.

Steve Nash (22:17)

But I mean, Kareem for longevity, you would think it'd have to be.

LeBron James (22:21)

Yeah, I would think so. And I, you know, I went off longevity over the top, but, you know, obviously big shot plays so many games with so many great franchises, and they did a lot of winning between Houston and in LA and San Antonio and. Yeah, yeah, so.

Steve Nash (22:35)

So it says. It says Kareem Abdul Jabbar with 1074 wins, followed by LeBron James, the only active player on the all time list.

LeBron James (22:44)

There we go.

Steve Nash (22:45)

Wow. You know, well, 1074. Now. You know what my next question is? How many wins?

LeBron James (22:55)

Leave me alone.

Steve Nash (22:56)

No, no, no. We're gonna. We're gonna have to start the hype train.

LeBron James (23:01)

Where am I right now?

Steve Nash (23:03)

What did I say? 1074.

LeBron James (23:05)

You said 1074 for Kareem, I think, didn't you?

Steve Nash (23:08)

1015. No, for you. 1015. So I guess that means you got to come back next year.

LeBron James (23:17)

So don't do this.

Steve Nash (23:21)

Breaking the news, Steve.

LeBron James (23:22)

Don't do this. Don't do this. I'm not going for that record.

Steve Nash (23:27)

Well, I have a feeling that you might have no choice. It might be.

Narrator/Announcer (23:42)

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Steve Nash (25:06)

Of places to go. I'd love to go up the Burj.

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Steve Nash (25:13)

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Steve Nash (26:11)

I'd love for you and I to greenlight Shay Gilgeous Alexander his incredible play. I think he's gotten better. Yeah, and you know the reason I make that correlation on the streak is that I think he's at the time of recording here. He's in the 90s of 20 game streaks and so by the time this goes out it'll probably be knock on wood, somewhere around 100 or so, which is a pretty incredible milestone itself. But have you noticed that this guy, the mvp, champion, finals mvp, he keeps getting better.

LeBron James (26:50)

Absolutely. And not only we Talking about the 20 point streak of how many so games, but doing it very efficiently too. Shooting at a high clip. Obviously we know his mid range game. I think he's even shooting his mid range even higher than last year, you know, which is.

Steve Nash (27:09)

You are correct. Yeah, it feels like he never misses.

LeBron James (27:15)

I agree.

Steve Nash (27:15)

Right?

LeBron James (27:16)

I agree.

Steve Nash (27:17)

Last year he shot 50% from the mid range. This year he's up to 56% from the mid range. I mean that's that efficiency. He's the, you know, as you were, as you are and were in different ways, you know, you're the top of the scouting report every night.

LeBron James (27:33)

Yeah.

Steve Nash (27:33)

You know, and so for you to be that efficient when the other team's job is to try to hire you up, scheme you up, whatever it may be, that efficiency is crazy.

LeBron James (27:46)

No, it's crazy.

Steve Nash (27:48)

And the last two years, 52% on twos outside of 8ft, just ahead of KD. So I mean just phenomenal from the mid range and getting even better this season.

LeBron James (27:58)

So kudos to Shay, man.

Steve Nash (28:01)

Kudos. Kudos to go through some more. His three point percentage has gone up like seven, eight points. He's up to 44% on five threes a game. So like think about Shea, you think about incredible in isolation, the mid range as we talked about, incredible drive rate, getting to the rim, incredible foul rate. I think in the top 1, 2, 3 last year, in the top four already this year. And all the while he is committing like one and a half turnovers. And so I think for a play it's the lowest turnover rate of a player averaging 30 points for a season of all time. I mean that's. We don't think of Shai as a high, high assist guy, very good playmaker, but a high isis guy. But to only turn it over once, when your usage, your degree of difficulty, your need to get your team on the score sheet, get to the foul line, like to not turn it over more like is exceptional. We probably don't talk about it enough.

LeBron James (29:08)

That's body, his angles, the way he plays, his change of pace and how tight his handle is, you know, like, you know his handle is super tight, his change of pace is super tight. His angles, you know, everything like he's just super, super detailed and efficient and you know that, that championship, you know, it actually makes you even go higher, you know, you know you've been Able to do it. You did it. You reached the mountaintop. And he's just, he's going even further now. You know, like you said, you know, his juice is right. You know, the number one of all time for a guy averaging 30, only having a little over one turnover a game, that is. That's excellent. Almost perfect basketball right there.

Steve Nash (29:57)

That's crazy. Yeah. I think what I'd love to hear from you, like, when you win a championship, a lot of people can take it in different ways. People could get complacent. People could feel pressure to do it again. Or as it feels with Shay, is like a little bit, like, inspired by it and ready and like, came back better how much he wants it inspired by that. And also, like, I'm playing on house money, like, I already won one. I like. So, like, he saw, like, let me go higher. Tell me a little bit about that. The different ways you can approach.

LeBron James (30:31)

It's one or it's either one or the other is. No, it's either you, you, you. You go back to some of your old habits or, you know, you, you use that as a launching pad. You use that as a lily pad to even take it further. And I think what I, what it sense to me is that Shai wants to be legendary. He wants to be known in this game for a long time, well after he's done. And he wants to set a mark not only for okc, but also for his country and for Canada, for his people, for his family. He wants to, you know, he wants to set, you know, like, you know, you got. You started, Steve. And you know, and, you know, when Vince went to Toronto, another buzz and, you know, like, you know, you got Demar and Kyle, what they was able to do there. And now Shai is a huge part of that basketball community. So it seems like that one Toronto, I mean, I'm sorry, Canada, you know, okc. But then him, he wants to be. It seems like he wants to be great, you know, and, you know, greatness doesn't just come in one year or two years. It's done over and over and over and over. And he has that mentality. He's. He's a. He's he's damn good out there on that basketball court.

Steve Nash (31:51)

Incredible. I. I compared him on prime the other night statistically to mj as far as like, scoring guard, efficiency. Like, it's hard. Someone that grew up like me, where I start playing the game actually a little bit late, by 13 years old, like Air Jordan ones commercials with Spike Lee, this guy Taking off. Like for me he's like my hero because that you're still a 13 year old. 14 or 15.

LeBron James (32:20)

Right, right.

Steve Nash (32:22)

But I can see like statistically you can't argue like he's, he's doing things in that category at a scoring guard. Right. So I mean it's phenomenal. But I'd say one thing where he has gotten better this year, and he mentioned this recently, was prioritizing his playmaking. You know, I think a little over seven assists a game. He's in more pick and rolls. The rating in pick and rolls has gone up from like 113 to 121, like a big jump. And it's just been incredible to watch him start to prioritize the playmaking because I think what he's thinking is like as in winning efficient basketball as you have done your whole career, is you have to manipulate the defense. And I feel like he's starting to realize he wants to play that type of chess. That's important for him. Right. And for him to continue to find new levels.

LeBron James (33:14)

No, absolutely. And for them to continue to be as complete as a basketball team as they want to be and continue to maximize. You know, if Shai is out there and he's making these plays and he could get the defense just to shift to Chet a little bit more, shift to J Dub a little bit more, shift to Caruso a little bit more Case and Wallace, you know, you know, shift to those other guys just a little bit more. Because now Shai's making these plays and those guys are feeling in a rhythm. They feel uncomfortable. They know the ball is going to come to him. Okay, guess what that does for Shai now that gives him the one on one opportunities. Now it gets him, you know, the eyes off of him for a little bit of period of time, which we know he's very dangerous at already he knows he has that game on lock that's not going anywhere. What can also make him a better player is making sure those other guys be in rhythm too, you know, and those other eyes that's out on the floor defensively are maybe shifting to some of those guys because he gonna always be able to get his. He's just that good. So that's just, that's smart thinking. That's a great game plan and obviously we can see why they're sitting here with only two losses, a little over a third with into the season.

Steve Nash (34:24)

What do you think is the best game plan for Shai? I mean, obviously a game plan is in context of an entire team. But for him and that team, like, what are the coverages? What are the game plans? Like, what comes to mind for you?

LeBron James (34:36)

You got to keep them off the free throw line, which is hard. Which is hard. Like I said, he uses these angles. He knows how to manipulate the game in a good way. You know, he knows what to do, what not to do. He's always looking for hands and arms and elbows. If you in. In his space. That's just our game right now. You got to respect it. He's. It's the James Harden how, how James was when James was dominant in Houston. So. But the more you could try to keep him off the free throw line, it helps, you know, because he's going to make his field goals. You know, Shay's going to make his 11 to 12 field goals a game at a high rate. That's. That's already 24 to 25 to 26 points right there. He making, you know, 11 field goals, that's 22 points. If he made a couple of threes, that's 24 points or 26 points. But if you're giving him also 12 to 13 free throws, when he shoots at a high clip, too, now that's when. That's when 27 turns to 38, you know, and that's when it starts to become breakback. You get 38 from him, you get another 25 from J Dub, you get another 20, you know, from Chet, you. You know, those bench guys come in, you know, Isaiah Joe, start making some threes, like they, you know, it's. It's that, you know, you understand that this, the full team that you're playing against. The head of the snake is Shay. But you got to understand, once he sees the ball go through from the free throw line, you know what I'll happen to another body on him, you know, or some physical contact or somebody blitzing his pick and rolls, whatever. It just makes him even more dynamic when it also just trickles down to the rest of those guys. So you have to be disciplined. I know it's tough because you want to stop him so bad, but you have to understand that the greatest defense in the world has never been able to beat the greatest offense. Never.

Steve Nash (36:28)

For sure. That's. That is. Yeah. NBA guys, I mean, defense wins championships, but in one particular play off.

LeBron James (36:34)

Yeah, one particular place. Yeah, you had the best defense ever for that one particular play. But the best offensive play is always going to win that. Yes, defense does win championships, but for sure, in one particular play, you've got to live with the result if you did your job, you did your job, You. You tip your hat to them.

Steve Nash (36:50)

Yeah, yeah. That's the genius of the greats. Right? Uh, you know, but talking about his free throw rate, you know, you. You would. It's. At the end of the day, there's a math element, right? Like, how do you win, score more points, and in what fashion? And so. But that's. You're right. Like, I think you did that through scoring and playmaking. That was how you broke the math in a game. He does it from scoring and the free throws, and now he's adding the playmaking. Yeah, the free throws, though. Look, I know people complain sometimes about grifting and all that, but this is within the rules. He's. And, you know, and I actually think while maybe he sells one or two, the vast majority, he gets fouled. And it's an art the way he does it. Do you. I mean, do you. He's got to be up there with anyone in the game as far as being able to force defenders into fouls.

LeBron James (37:38)

Yeah. It is what the rules is. And he's figured out a way to master my Rubik. That's. I don't. That's not a problem. It's not a crime. It's not the player's fault on being able to master the rule book.

Steve Nash (37:53)

Yeah.

LeBron James (37:54)

You know, it's not the player's fault. You know, and I know our fans, you know, get a little upset with it or sometimes. Or even some of, like, even some of the. You know, I even get, you know, sometimes upset with it in the moment. In the moment, you know, but also, I gotta understand what the rules is and, you know, so, you know, you know, you got Shay, you know, James still is very good at it. You got Luca, who's very good at it. AR is very good at it. You know, so you have these, you know, you have these guys, you know, Jalen Brunson, you know, Tyrese Maxey. Like, these guys are really, really good at it. And they figured out a way to, you know, getting the rhythm, like, scores. The best way for a score to get into a rhythm is get an easy basket at the rim or get to the free throw line. That would never change. I don't care if team starts shooting 100 threes a game for a score. You get a good. You get a layup or get to the free throw line. That's the best way to get your rhythm going, you know, so guys are. We got some of the best guys in the league to understand how to do that.

Steve Nash (38:56)

It's also a winning formula. You can set your defense.

LeBron James (38:58)

Oh, absolutely.

Steve Nash (38:59)

He's an 80, I think, 8 or something percent shooter. You set your defense. You set that OKC defense. I mean, your team's winning a lot of those possessions. Yeah, see, I get it. I get why fans don't like the disruption to the flow of the game. At the same time, for me, when I watch these guys, any of them, like, take your pick. I think it's amazing. The art and the body control and the feel for playing against their man within the context of the rules. That is. I think it's an art. I think it's an art. The one that I think we need to be careful of just to make a slight.

LeBron James (39:38)

I know which one you about to mention.

Steve Nash (39:40)

I don't know if you, if you are. It's sometimes when they cl. The defender, offensive player, and they close the gap and right when they're closing the gap, the guy takes like, it's. It's like a little bit of a. That's the embellishment. I think we got to let a little bit of contact. If he comes over and knocks him or he draws him to him and goes to a shoulder, 100%. But it's the marginal one where they come back and it's. That's the one that I think we gotta make.

LeBron James (40:07)

And I don't remember.

Steve Nash (40:07)

Refs gotta.

LeBron James (40:08)

Yeah. And I don't remember when that, when that. When that kind of changed. It's kind of happened over like the last couple years when that, like you said that bang, bang, you know, play happens and guys are just like. Soon as they feel that, you know, like, yeah, it's smart.

Steve Nash (40:28)

They put the onus on the referee. I would just like that. That one of all the ones to make sure there's enough contact there. Like, I think if it's so. It's so often it's just marginal. I think we got to let him play like a couple times of like, get up, you know, keep playing. Guys will take that one out of their bag. The one where the guy closes too hard. He baited him to close and then he goes through a shoulder. Like, no problem.

LeBron James (40:50)

Yeah, we had a couple.

Narrator/Announcer (40:52)

Time.

LeBron James (40:52)

We had a couple in our game last night against Phoenix that I was like, they went against us. I was like, that's not. It's just not a foul. It's just not a foul.

Steve Nash (41:01)

It's not a foul. Being a Phoenix sun, I think there were fouls, But I do think that's the one where it's marginal contact and there's some embellishment. Absolutely. Try if you're an offensive player, but I think that's the one the game could do with, making sure there's enough contact. They're not just looking for that slight thing and then going over.

LeBron James (41:25)

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Steve Nash (41:26)

I want to look at some clips of Shai's playmaking, because I want to take a look at some things that I think he's taken a leap at, and I want to see how you feel about some of these plays. So here he is, little fake reject, Get a little space, draws a crowd. Just a simple early pass. You know, like, there's a time for him where he could. He's. He. He could slither into the pain here on Gobert, but he feels that defender slide up, and just like you said earlier, him making the play for his teammate comes back to him later.

LeBron James (41:58)

Yeah, that's just. It's an easy read, but it's not always easily executed, especially by a lot of our guys in our league. And you got Ant, that's high on the high shift, and you got Kayson Wallace, that's at the level of the ball and his defender right now. And just that one little drift by Case and just gets him a real. Even a better shot. A corner three. And that's just a great on time, on target, you know, pass from Shea. Make or miss, it's the absolute 1000% right play.

Steve Nash (42:26)

All right, here we go. Another simple early pass. I mean, this. This stuff, it's nice. You've made all the passes in the book, but sometimes the most gratifying one is the simple early pass just to tell the defense, you can't play me like this. You can't just stand chest to chest in the middle of the paint and leave my teammates open. And then you encourage your teammates that. No pressure, shoot it every time, drive it, make plays, right?

LeBron James (42:51)

And we know that a lot of our great scorers, you know, you know, Shay included in the past, possibly would have even tried to, you know, low dribble, split and hopefully get the rake foul from Devin Booker with his arms out like that. You know, try to low dribble, rake his arms up, maybe try to get to the free throw line, maybe get the foul, maybe not. But, you know, I just think this is just his progression of his, you know, maturation process as a player.

Sponsor Voice (43:17)

Just.

LeBron James (43:18)

Just literally making the right play. Guys in front of the ball, right in front of you. Get off of it. Make or miss by Mitchell. Great play.

Steve Nash (43:27)

I Also think, like, once you make a couple of those plays, it gives you leeway to try other things later.

LeBron James (43:32)

Yep.

Steve Nash (43:32)

Absolutely wants to attack that. That help defender. He can later. But if it's every time attacking him, I think it puts you in a tough position now where they're winning the battle and they. They. There's no more cat and mouse, like playing cat. Should I be in, should I be out? Make them insecure.

LeBron James (43:49)

Yep.

Steve Nash (43:51)

So I love this clip. Okay, first of all, there's a good defensive team. Draymond Green is. Is his. Is receiving him on this pick and roll. Not an easy person to sneak passes by. So just him feeling this slip out, getting below Draymond, and then an early quick. This is where I think he's also improved. He's gotten slicker in his deliveries, if I can use that word, where the ball time from the floor to the hand to the pocket has gotten quicker and more urgency. And so gets in a rim attack, a rim attempt, and a foul here. And what that does for me, it's not. Again, like I keep saying in these pick and roll scenarios, you know, it's about manipulation. It's about setting the table for how the game's going to be played. So Draymond takes a liberty here and allows his man to get behind him because he says Shai is the number one focus. And so Shai says, well, if you're going to stay above your man and shade me, I got to make this pass. So he's willing to make an early, simple pass here. It's not. It's not a simple. It's a simple read. It's not a simple pass.

LeBron James (44:55)

No, absolutely. Especially against a great defensive team, especially against Draymond, who's seen every playmaker, you know, make plays over the last 15 plus years, seen a lot of great scores. And it's just like I said, like you said, it's a simple play, but not a simple pass. You know, he saw that opening right away when Draymond allowed, you know, Jalen Williams to get below him on the roll. And obviously, Draymond is. He's playing on the caution of, hey, I got to stop the head of the snake. Hopefully my backline of defense got me covered back there. Obviously, they wasn't protected, didn't have a low man, you know, from the weak side, low man.

Steve Nash (45:33)

And.

LeBron James (45:33)

But that's just a good pass on time, on target, and, you know, once again, putting OKC at the free throw line where they're just very good at it.

Steve Nash (45:41)

It's also that's a tricky angle because who's the low man there? In another step, it's the corner he just came from. But step before it's the. It's the other corner. So it puts those two help baseline defenders in a very difficult position. But again, Draymond's quite happy for him to make the play to him behind him, because Shai's the number one. But if he does that two or three times, it puts him in a tougher and tougher position. Yep, empty side here.

LeBron James (46:07)

Yep, empty side here. Come on. A green. A double run.

Steve Nash (46:13)

That backs. Great timing. So they flood. Yeah, they flood the baseline.

LeBron James (46:19)

That flub. Yeah. Precious. Achua has no idea where. He has no idea where the ball is right now, so he should be.

Steve Nash (46:30)

Head on a swivel. Passing the cutter off.

LeBron James (46:32)

Passing the cutter off. Yeah. Just sitting on top of Hardenstein's leg. And then take the corner pass. But listen, that pass, he read that, you know, Shay read that pass to the corner before it even happened. As soon as he seen Pressure's head turn, he knew that pass is open. You got Eubanks up there with Chet. He's hugging him, too. So you got a four and a five man on the perimeter to try to be in rotations with which they are not accustomed to doing.

Steve Nash (47:00)

Yeah, you're absolutely right, though. As soon as he saw that head turned, he knew, I can throw this right over top of him. Makes it very hard to rotate to. Great recognition.

LeBron James (47:10)

Great recognition.

Steve Nash (47:11)

All right, here we have, like a pretty standard pick and roll. Two help side defenders on the weak side. What I. What I like about this is they're high on Shai here. They've got him in this pocket here. He could try to skip this to the corner, but the reality is a skip to the corner so far over high hands that that low man's going to get back out. So that by. By hitting Hardenstein on the roll here, he makes the low man rotate and so then he can make the hockey assist. He passed Hardenstein, he throws it out and you get a wide open one. Instead of potentially the skip pass here under pressure, where that low defender is going to be there on catch. So I think this is a smart pass that manipulates for later in the game again.

LeBron James (47:54)

Yeah. And I think, you know, when you have a guy, a dynamic roller like Harnstein, who's very good in the pocket, not only with his finishes with his nice touch shot floater, but also with his ability to playmake, it gives Shai a lot more confidence, too, to make that pocket pass to him, you know, on that short roll. So that's a pretty good. Pretty good dynamic between the two. Between the two players versus a very good athletic defensive team too, in Minnesota.

Steve Nash (48:21)

That's a great point. I mean, to give your big the ball above the free throw line where he's got the high stunt. A lot of bigs are going to lose it to this guy, stripping him, but he's able to handle the pass, handle the defender, and then read the low man and make the read. So, you know, it is. But that's his recognition too, right? That's a great play by Hartenstein, but that's Shay's recognition that I can give him this ball here and he'll make the play.

LeBron James (48:43)

Absolutely, absolutely.

Steve Nash (48:46)

Little flare action to a dho. So. So I. I think he's improved at this, you know, I mean, this one in particular with the left hand is, you know, and you can talk to this LeBron is. Is that what it does to a defender when you don't have to pick the ball up with two hands, but off the flow of the dribble, you can bait the defender? Because while that ball balls hovering that hang dribble here, Rudy's like, well, I don't know, he might attack me. So he can.

LeBron James (49:12)

Yeah, because he has the ability to attack right there too. He has a gap, right? He has a gap.

Steve Nash (49:19)

So Rudy kind of is like a second late where he get. Lets Hartenstein get below him again like we talked about. And Shane knows that if I don't pick this ball up, I can thread the needle underneath Rudy and he's never going to get his hips back around the wall up here. So I think this is a very slick delivery that gets your team rim attempts by not picking it up out of two hands.

LeBron James (49:39)

Nah, that was big time. That's a big time pass right there. And we see Shay too, with that offhand, make a lot of like, you know, pick up without bringing the other hand, you know, layups with the left hand, you know, off glass or whatever while he's, you know, in the paint, whatever the case may be. And you know, that left hand, that thread right there, keeping the same momentum as Harenstein as he rolling. That's a dynamic pass for sure. So his playmaking is definitely, we seeing it right there in just those five clips. How much his playmaking has, you know, gotten better over the years.

Steve Nash (50:15)

And if you're Rudy and he hangs that ball up and he threads that needle, the next time he hangs that ball up, you're backpedaling as hard as you're bets and he's going down the lane with no resistance. So there's a thought to him, there's a manipulation, there's a cat and mouse going on that I think has taken another level. It's been fun to watch.

LeBron James (50:34)

Yeah, it is fun to watch.

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Steve Nash (51:21)

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Steve Nash (51:51)

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Steve Nash (52:59)

Help my Game Fan Questions of the Week okay, you know, here's one for from Slim Brady 44 on X Slim Brady. Come on Brady. I'm under six feet and love basketball. What individual skill should I prioritize working on in practice as the shortest guy on the court?

LeBron James (53:19)

There you go. Steve, great question for you.

Steve Nash (53:21)

Yeah, all right, thanks. You take it, shorty? No, but I think like when you're an undersized player, you have to be a combination of things. You can't just be one thing, right. You have to try to use different skills. So the one place I would start is skill set. Like how tight can your handle be? Can you handle the ball, protect the ball? You know, can you make clean passes on time, on target? Then to take the next step, how well do you shoot the ball now? How much pressure do they have to put on you because of your shooting threat? That makes you relieve pressure and get by people. So there's the skill set side of it. I would start with ball handling and shooting. Ball handling, shooting, finishing, passing, all the skills. But the other part of it is you have to be tough minded. You have to be relentless. You have to be willing to stick your nose in there, dive on the floor, take charges, do all the things that can get your team in extra possession that you can't get because of your height, length, wingspan. So.

LeBron James (54:23)

Yep. And I was starting. Yeah, I'll add a little bit to that. And how, how well is your conditioning? You know, if you're undersized, how long for the time that you're on the floor, can you pick the, the opposing point guard up 94ft and turn them three or four times in the back court? You know, create some turnovers, create havoc, things of that nature. Like you said, put your body online, take charges, die for loose balls, get 50, 50 balls. So like conditioning, you know. Well, you know, if you, if you're the best condition guy out there, that's one thing. That hype and weight and size and athleticism, you know, those things can't deter with that. So I think that's a part of it as well.

Steve Nash (55:02)

So yeah, I think, you know, to sum up both thoughts is there's plenty. You might not be the tallest, but there's plenty out there for you to do if you control the controllables. Yep, control the controls. Be the best ball handler, shooter, best conditioned, most resilient, great teammate. All those value to your team that don't have anything to do with size and strength. So good luck to you. Slim Brady. Slim Brady Brady 44. Thanks for watching Mind the game.

Narrator/Announcer (55:39)

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