Cooper Flagg, The NBA Draft and Prospective Rule Changes

Summary

Mind the Game: Cooper Flagg, The NBA Draft and Prospective Rule Changes

Presented by Uninterrupted and Wondery | Released on June 24, 2025

In this engaging episode of Mind the Game, hosts LeBron James and Steve Nash delve deep into the intricacies of NBA leadership, the upcoming NBA Draft with a spotlight on Cooper Flagg, and potential rule changes poised to reshape the game of basketball. The conversation offers valuable insights for fans, aspiring players, and anyone interested in the evolution of basketball.

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1. Leadership and Punctuality: Setting the Standard

The episode kicks off with a heartfelt discussion about leadership qualities in the NBA, particularly focusing on the importance of punctuality and setting an example for teammates.

Steve Nash shares a personal anecdote prompted by a call from Grant Hill, who commended his leadership and dedication:

"He was really impressed with your voice this summer, your leadership. He also said you were the first to meetings, first on the bus." ([02:24])

LeBron James emphasizes how being consistently early demonstrates commitment and respect for the team:

"When teammates start trickling in and they see you're there time and time again early, it does set a standard. It also shows them how much you care." ([05:44])

This segment underscores the foundational role that punctuality plays in fostering a disciplined and motivated team environment.

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2. Voice and Leadership Evolution: From Class Clown to Team Leader

Exploring the development of leadership through effective communication, Steve Nash reflects on his journey from being a playful class clown to commanding the floor with his voice in high-stakes games.

He recounts how early coaches recognized his natural ability to lead and communicate:

"In high school, my voice was always commanding... it helped our team win three state championships in four years." ([06:30])

However, transitioning to the NBA posed challenges. Nash discusses the delicate balance between retaining his leadership qualities while adapting to the professional level:

"I felt like I needed to sit back and soak in knowledge... how can I game back to number one like I did when I was a freshman to my senior year?" ([09:23])

This evolution highlights the adaptability required to maintain leadership in a more competitive and scrutinized environment.

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3. Navigating the NBA Draft: Insights and Inspiration

As NBA Draft season unfolds, LeBron and Steve provide a comprehensive look into the draft process, offering encouragement and advice to aspiring players.

Steve Nash extends his best wishes to all draft hopefuls, emphasizing perseverance:

"Good luck to all you guys. To the guys that get drafted, to the guys that slide, to the guys that don't get drafted does not mean that your dream is not going to be accomplished." ([13:43])

They discuss the varied paths to success in the NBA, highlighting stories of undrafted players who have made significant impacts, such as Derrick White, Stephen Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Giannis Antetokounmpo, and Nikola Jokić:

"It's way more common than the LeBron James and the Cooper flags." ([16:36])

The conversation serves as a motivational reminder that success in the NBA is not solely determined by draft position but by continuous development and resilience.

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4. Spotlight on Cooper Flagg: Advice for the Number One Pick

With Cooper Flagg emerging as the consensus number one pick, LeBron and Steve offer tailored advice to help him navigate the pressures and expectations that come with such a prestigious selection.

Steve Nash advises Flagg to manage his mindset carefully, focusing on personal growth rather than external expectations:

"It was something that I think we can, you know, as kids like myself and Cooper can use as like motivation as well." ([17:01])

They highlight the advantages Flagg possesses by joining an established team featuring Hall of Famers like Klay Thompson, Anthony Davis, and Kyrie Irving, as well as legendary coach Jason Kidd:

"These guys are like, they're gonna be able to give him the whole blueprint while he continues to learn what his blueprint will be." ([18:00])

This mentorship environment is portrayed as a cornerstone for Flagg’s potential success and holistic development.

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5. Prospective NBA Rule Changes: Enhancing the Game for Players and Fans

The latter part of the episode shifts focus to potential rule changes that could transform the NBA landscape. LeBron and Steve critically examine proposals aimed at improving game flow and fan engagement.

a. Eliminating the Corner Three

One significant proposal is modifying the three-point line to eliminate corner threes, turning them into two-pointers. LeBron muses on the implications:

"What do you think it looks like? I mean, that's a huge thing for him to go to a winning team where the pressure's not on him to score 25 a night from the start." ([36:13])

Steve Nash expresses mixed feelings, acknowledging the skill involved but wary of its impact on gameplay dynamics:

"I think we have to think about the younger Generation that's looking up to us... I don't like it. I wouldn't like it." ([43:07])

b. Introducing a Four-Point Shot

The discussion briefly touches on the idea of adding a four-point shot. Both hosts express skepticism, primarily concerned about confusing younger players and diluting fundamental skills:

"You could be on a poor team, have an unbelievable offensive year. You could still win offensive player of the year and vice versa." ([42:07])

c. Clarifying the Defensive Player of the Year Criteria

Steve Nash suggests redefining the Defensive Player of the Year award to better reflect the modern game’s demands:

"I think that just the clarity of what the Defensive player award actually means." ([38:46])

He proposes introducing an Offensive Player of the Year to balance the accolades and provide clearer recognition of player roles.

d. Addressing Illegal Screens and Traveling

Both hosts agree on the need to tighten enforcement of existing rules, such as illegal screens and traveling, to maintain game integrity:

"We gotta look at it a little bit more. You know, the committee, the referee committee and the players, we just look at it a Little bit more." ([46:17])

This reflects a shared sentiment that refining rules can enhance both player performance and spectator enjoyment.

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6. Personal Anecdotes and Final Thoughts

Towards the end, Steve Nash shares humorous personal stories about traveling violations he managed to evade, illustrating the complexities and occasional inconsistencies in officiating:

"What do you mean the basketball gods weren't on your side? That's exactly what happened." ([49:39])

These anecdotes add a relatable and light-hearted touch to the episode, reinforcing the human element of professional basketball.

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Conclusion

This episode of Mind the Game seamlessly blends personal narratives with professional insights, offering a comprehensive exploration of leadership, the draft process, and the future of NBA rules. LeBron James and Steve Nash provide a balanced perspective, combining their vast experiences to inform and inspire listeners. Whether you're an avid basketball fan or someone interested in the dynamics of professional sports, this episode delivers thoughtful discussions and actionable advice.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "He was really impressed with your voice this summer, your leadership." — Steve Nash ([02:24])

• "Good luck to all you guys. To the guys that get drafted... your dream is not going to be accomplished." — Steve Nash ([13:43])

• "It was something that I think we can, you know, as kids like myself and Cooper can use as like motivation as well." — Steve Nash ([17:01])

• "I think we gotta look at it a little bit more... just get a little bit more fundamental with it." — Steve Nash ([46:17])

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Transcript

[A]

What if you could still stand in and take a charge? There's just no call. You could step in, like, if you're coming down the lane. I'm not. I'm not meeting you at the rim. But maybe I could slide in and take a charge. I don't get a charge.

[B]

The refs are just like, no, there's already too much conflict between players and referees already. Could you imagine you take a charge anyways. No, charge stays.

[A]

Charge. Gotta stay, right? Gotta stay. I think that.

[B]

Gotta stay.

[A]

That'll make the game too wild.

[B]

Yeah, Gotta stay too wild. Like arch rivals then. Remember that game on Nintendo? Arch rivals go crazy.

[A]

Welcome back to Mind the Game.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Another time around.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Yeah. I got a call the other day from the great Grant Hill with my former teammate, a good friend, someone I think the world of, who's now. What is Grant's title of usab, is it President, CEO, Everything? Everything, Everything. But basically running usab, trying to keep that world supremacy.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Which is a tricky task.

[B]

But hell of a job this past summer, too. Last summer. Yep. Great job.

[A]

But he called me up and he said, you know, he's been listening to the pod. He's enjoyed it.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. Which I was like, clearly not busy enough. Gee. But, you know, one thing he said to me was that he was really impressed with your voice this summer, your leadership. He also said you were the first to meetings, first on the bus. I don't want to make you sound like a. You know what I mean, goody two shoes here. But I will say from a coaching perspective, when your best player, most famous player, most kind of accredited player, sets that standard every day, there's a trickle down, there's a care factor, there's a priority placed on what we're doing. Maybe just talk a little bit about where that comes from. Where does that desire to be there, be early?

[B]

I don't know. I think it was like. I think I was born into it for some odd reason. Like, I've always had a feeling of like, I didn't. I don't like being late to anything. It was always like. It's always. I feel like it's like a disrespectful thing, you know, My stomach starts to hurt a little bit. My anxiety starts to ramp up if I'm. If I'm late or even. Or tardy. It happened when I was even, like in like elementary school. Like, you know, if the bell rung and before I was in my chair, like, I would. I Would. I guess my whole day would be messed up, you know. And when I started to play sports, you know, I always wanted to be at practice early.

[A]

Did that come from your mom? A part of that was that just something innate in you, the way you were wired?

[B]

I didn't pick it up from my mom. I don't think so. Like, I don't think I picked it up from my mom. I think I was just born that way. I've always, always been like, my anxiety. I can't function right when I'm. When I'm late. And it's. And it's. And it stuck to. It stuck with me throughout my obviously time. Now I'm, you know, 40 years old. But when I started playing organized sports, it was like the perfect match, like, for me because like, it's like, if you're not on time to practice, you going to have to run. Like, I. I play football first, Little league football. Like, if you didn't run, you have to run sprints or you have to run gashers or 17s and I know football people out there, they know exactly what those are. And that shit is punishment. You do not want to be late to a football practice and have to run, you know, gashers or 17s or hundreds. I never, I never unless, like, you know, I didn't have the means, like, to, you know, my mom didn't have a car when we were growing up and, you know, so if I was late because of someone picking me up late or whatever the case may be, and I couldn't control that, even though I was still having anxiety about being late, some things I couldn't control, but, like, you know, to hear Grant say those words, man, and it's just always been in me, man, and, you know, I feel like, you know, especially when you start playing sports and you're around other people and as you get older and older and older and, you know, you go from little league to middle school ball to high school ball, you know, and if it's either college or the professionals, wherever you are. I think I always looked at it as like a disrespect to, you know, the people that you. That you're working with. You know, you're late, you're like, you're disrespecting other people's time, you know, And I never, I never felt good about that. And I, you know, I didn't. What other people do, that's what other people do, you know, but for me personally, like, being on time has always been being late to me. Yeah, you know, so to be able to get the places early and like, you know, I didn't know what setting the tone for the rest of the group, you know, whatever stage that was, but to be there on time. I felt like it was late and I wanted to be there extra early, you know, talk to the coaches, you know, this past, you know, past summer, you know, when we was in, you know, for the Olympic team, being able to, you know, the coaches are always going to be there a little bit early. They talk about what they want to do tonight versus the opponents or practice. I get there early and just kind of, you know, watch the film or talk to them and see what was going on. And then the guy started trickling in and coming in, but it's just always kind of been me.

[A]

Well, I mean, when teammates start trickling in and they see you're there time and time again early, it does set a standard. It also shows them how much you care.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think that's really important, like, for everyone to recognize, like, oh, this means a lot to Bron.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

What about the voice? It's another part of leadership. He was really impressed with how you use your voice and how willing you were. Whether it's film, shoot around on the bench. He just was impressed. Like, talk me through where that, where that came from. Came from one like, you know, he probably wasn't there for rookie year, right? Nah, you know, like, maybe high school. Yeah, it was, of course, natural. But you move into a new league and then you have to find your voice as a player. What's the evolution there?

[B]

I was a class clown and.

[A]

So you weren't always a brown nose?

[B]

No, no, no. That only started the last couple years. I was a class clown and a jokester, and I mean, I still am today. Like, I'm. All my people know, I like, I love laughing and joking and things of that nature. And so I think that's where the kind of the voice stemmed from. But when I started playing sports, some of my little league coaches said, okay, you need to use that to an advantage, you know, of playing the sport too, you know, and helping some of the other kids out with your voice that may not feel confident in their ability to talk or maybe don't want to talk. And, you know, and then I got into high school and, you know, my high school coaches will tell me, like, the best thing about you, besides your skill or whatever the case may be, is your voice, you know, being able to, you know, call out plays before they happen, you know, you know, Call out our sets when we were coming down, being the back liner. But the defense, we ran a lot of press, you know, in high school. And I would be on the second line of the press so I could shoot the gaps and things like that. Get steals of that nature. And so I was the one kind of calling out the sets if it was like, you know, we had 12 and 21 and 12 was half court press, 21 was full court press. So I was always calling out those sets. And even when I was like a freshman, you know, it was me and Maverick, Maverick was our senior captain. But, you know, I was the one like my voice was kind of the loudest even as a 14 year old freshman. And, you know, that went all the way into my senior year. My voice was always, you know, commanding and, you know, and just knowing what was going on on the floor and it helped our team. You know, we was able to win three state championships in four years. And I seen how it translated, you know, it kind of slowed down a little bit my rookie year in the NBA. Not because the voice wasn't there, it's just because I felt like, okay, I need to sit back and soak in knowledge and learn and just see, you know, how can I. When was my voice going to be needed? You know, I didn't want to go in there just like, like when I, I was the number one player in the country my senior year. But I knew when I got drafted I was number 450. That's how I looked at it. I was like, okay, so how can I get back to number one like I did when I was a freshman to my senior year? How can I get back to number one? And I, and I felt like it wasn't going to be me talking. I needed to soak in the knowledge. I needed to learn, I needed to earn it, you know. And I think when, when Mike, I.

[A]

Just like, I just like everyone out there to hear that LeBron James came into the NBA and thought I need to earn it. Yeah, that like, hold on. Yeah, yeah, we don't see enough of that anymore.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I definitely came in with the I'm 450. Let's start from 450. You know, the last player in the league. Not saying that I was, but that was my mindset. How can I game back to number one? And then when Mike Brown took over our team, you know, a couple years after, after, I think it was my third year, maybe my fourth year.

[A]

He.

[B]

Was a defensive minded coach. Big time, big time defensive minded coach. And he would hear me speak in practices or like in the summer, we would come in and play and he would hear me, you know, hear my voice. My voice was, you know, very commanding. He was like, in order for us to be, you know, one of the best defensive teams in the league up there with San Antonio and Detroit and, you know, some of the better teams, I'm going to need your voice. I'm going to need it. And from there on, I was able to do what I did best. You know, it wasn't something I needed to learn, it was something I had. But now I was able to use that to our advantage. And it's just from year three to year 22, it's been here, growing. Yeah, it's been here.

[A]

So in high school, your presses were 12 and 21.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just like to apologize to my high school coach. Great Coach Hides. I don't remember shit.

[B]

We ran.

[A]

I'm really sorry. I don't remember one thing. We ran in high school. I know I had a great time. I know you were a hell of a coach.

[B]

Yeah, we had Diamond. We had Diamond. We had.

[A]

How do you remember?

[B]

Yeah, we had diamond. 12, 21. We had fist. Double fist. Double fist was when we turned you in the backcourt and on the second turn we trapped. Make the turn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we was. Yeah, our. Our defensive schemes are great.

[A]

How many, how many games ago was that? That's this year.

[B]

Oh my God. So many.

[A]

22. What is it? 2.

[B]

22 years. My last high school game was in March of 2003. We in year 2025. Oh my God.

[A]

Coachable.

[B]

Coachable remembers that.

[A]

This episode is sponsored in part by American Express. American Express has taught me that finding the perfect restaurant is a lot like finding the perfect play. It's all about timing, research, and sometime sometimes a great recommendation from someone you trust. Being on the road so much, I've become pretty particular about where I eat. My ideal spot is usually a local owned place that has great energy where you can enjoy an amazing meal while having a great conversation. Sometimes it's that new Fusion spot everyone's talking about. Others it's just a little spot a friend recommended. With Amex Gold. You earn four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants on up to $50,000 in purchases per year. So you can get rewarded for dining at some of the hottest restaurants in town and earn up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at U.S. rESI restaurants. Enrollment required. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] withamex after many years in the game, both on court and off, I know all about high stakes showdowns. That's why I'm hooked on Michael Crichton's binary on Audible. From the creator of Jurassic Park. And er comes this classic techno thriller about a radical aiming to bring down the government with a deadly nerve gas. The cat and mouse game between the terrorist and a determined state department agent had me on the edge of my seat in the ride over here. But Audible isn't just about heart pounding thrillers. From electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance in far off realms, Audible delivers thrills of every kind. On your command, you'll find gripping titles that keep you guessing, exclusive Audible originals and bestsellers that hook you from the first minute. Ready for your next great adventure? Sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com game and discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat. We'll shift in gear back to those days. It's NBA draft season.

[B]

Oh, here we go, the draft.

[A]

Incredible time.

[B]

Incredible time, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Incredible time for the newcomers coming in. First of all, good luck to all you guys. To the guys that get drafted, to the guys that slide, to the guys that don't get drafted does not mean that your dream is not going to be accomplished, man. Just no matter if you get picked, one don't matter if you don't get picked, no matter if you slide like the work is the work.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And that's all that matters. But I wish the best to all the guys that declare for the draft and it should be a great one, man.

[A]

I love that though. You were the number one pick. We all knew that for two years, three years coming in. I was, you know, a senior at Santa Clara. Was hoping to get picked 15th in the first round. Probably knew by the end I was gonna be a first round pick. But like took me four years of college. There's guys that go undrafted. AR was AR undrafted.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know who are incredible players in the league. We all develop at different rates. We all develop at different rates. So do not hang your hat on the draft in the draft alone.

[B]

Can I read something? Yeah, I'm gonna read something.

[A]

Digging the archives.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna dig in archives. So I have a group chat with me, Bronnie and Bryce.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And you know, from time to time I'll send just, you know, things that just, you know, focus them back in. So I sent this June 18, 2024. I'll tell you who this guy is, after I read this, unranked in High School. 0d1 scholarship offers. Played three years of Division 2 basketball at UCCS.

[A]

I know who it is.

[B]

Transferred to Colorado and now is an NBA champion on one of the best teams in the NBA. That guy's Derrick White.

[A]

Hell of a player.

[B]

Hell of a player. And my message was, to them, everybody's road to success is different, so stay locked in and patient. That was my message to my boys last year.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of stories like that. It's funny, right? Like, there's almost. There's more stories like that than there is stories like yours.

[B]

Right? Correct.

[A]

People, I need to recognize that. I had one scholarship offer. Stephen Curry did not get a scholarship to his dad's alma mater, Virginia Tech. His dad played in the league for a long time. I don't remember Kawhi Leonard being on a lot of radars even when he got to the league. You go around, there's a lot of guys that develop. I mean, Giannis coming from where he came. Jokic, second round pick, second round. You go through the league, they're littered, you know, with people that got there in a circuitous way. Let's say it's almost more common than the person that got there. From high school All American to college All American.

[B]

It's way more common than the LeBron James and the Cooper flags.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

I'll tell you that.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's a great message. I'm glad you could share that with us.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Speaking of Cooper, you know, he's in a position you can relate to. He's the consensus number one and. Terrific player. Terrific player. What do you remember about being in that position? Like, what advice would you give him? Like, you know, you're the number one pick. The whole world of basketball is looking at you. It's got to come with a lot of expectations.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, one, obviously, you're super excited. It's like, you know, shit, it's what we all dreamed about as kids and sitting in your. Laying in your bed, you know, with the basketball just shooting up, you know, at the ceiling, you know, working on your form, done that, you know, just doing that. Or, you know, if you. If you were able to get a basketball hoop in your driveway, then you're doing the whole countdown. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Wanting to hit a big buzzer shot, you know, in the NBA at some point. And then you're wearing other people's jerseys growing up. You're wearing other guys Shoes, just like all that type of stuff. Playing video games with all the people you inspire to be and want to be a up and now the moment is here. So you're just like, it's a, you're in awe, man. You like, wow, I can't believe that this dream is finally coming true, you know, and at the same time there's a little anxiety and pressure that comes with it too because you know, as a number one pick, the expectations are automatically put on you. Doesn't matter if they're right or wrong, you know, and we're around the same age, you know, I was 18 when I was drafted. I believe Cooper's 18, maybe turning 19 soon. But it's all the same. But it takes time, man. It takes time. And the expectation to wanting to put a 18 year old, 19 kid in a position where he's like, he needs to be great right away. I think it's unfair, but it's also something that I think we can, you know, as kids like myself and Cooper can use as like motivation as well. And I personally think that he wants to be great, you know. You know, he had a hell of a year at Duke. A guy that can do so many different things out on the floor, can play with the ball, can play without the ball, you know, his jump shot is going to continue to get better. Super athletic, quick second jump. And also he has the benefit, unlike myself, he gets to join a team that's established with hall of Fame guys. Klay Thompson, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, right off the bat, hall of Fame coach Jason Kidd. You know, these guys are like, they're gonna, they can give him the whole blueprint while he continues to learn what his blueprint will be. And I think that's going to be an incredible thing for him to have that type of presence, that type of leadership, that type of, you know, just basketball IQ and knowledge around him every single day from those pieces. So I think he's going to be amazing.

[A]

And an environment, right. That's not like we're the worst team in the league.

[B]

Right, Right. We're going to try to have bad habits. You know, that happens too, man. You get guys that you never know what their trajectory should have been been based on if they were in a toxic environment or losing environment or an environment that had great habits. You know, like we mentioned Kawhi, like, you know, we don't know if Kawhi would have ended up somewhere without those type of built in habits in San Antonio. Would he have been, you know, he would have probably been great, obviously, but he had time to hone those skills, be around Timmy, be around Manu, be around Tony, be around Pop to where he was able to get better on his own time and not the league's time.

[A]

Right. So unique, maybe forget. Right. But the player, obviously now he's with such a world class player, but he's playing for championships right away. Yeah, that's a totally different. That's a very unique position for a rookie. Did you play with Cooper in the summer? Were you in those practices?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, he was on the, he was on the development team, on the select team we call him. Yeah. And he played extremely well. Man. I've been watching Cooper for a few years because my son played AAU basketball on the Nike EYBL circuit, bronnie. So, you know, we would be in tournaments either in like, you know, Peace Jam in Georgia or Kansas City or Dallas or Indianapolis. And you know, Cooper, unlike a lot of kids, he played for his, his team out of Maine. A lot of these kids are going to like recruited. Yeah, recruited, whatever. Him and his brother and a bunch of those guys they grew up with played on the. I think they were called. I forgot it was main select or something like that, but. And those. He made them competitive like versus teams that was stacking teams. You know, him and his brother, you know, I thought that was just super cool because that was how I remember me. That's how I was. You know, I played for the Northeast Ohio Shooting Stars. Like me and my guys grew up playing together and having to play all the best teams in the country. I just thought that was super cool. But you know, he's a, he's a big time talent.

[A]

Yeah. Says something about his mentality. What did you notice practicing with him? What did you notice about his mentality?

[B]

Oh, he just, it's all. He just made winning. He's a winner. It just seemed like he make winnings play. He just make winning plays even at his first year at Duke, you know, just made winning plays, you know, and obviously, you know, the fact that he was the freshman and I think his player of the year this year as well, ACC player of the year, you know, and I just thought he just played the game the right way. How you will hope that, you know, a player that of his caliber just comes to work every day just trying to get better. And I just think he's been getting better and better.

[A]

That's a great indicator, right, of his success. Willing to make small plays that mean a lot to winning. Because I would say like the One thing for such a prodigious talent that we want to wait and see what happens with is how good is he with the ball?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, he obviously is capable with the ball. We've seen him do a lot of things with the ball, but is he that primary guy? Will he be? But I love to hear that, like, well, I think he's going to get there. Love to hear that. His mentality is, I'm happy to do whatever the team needs.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people, he has the ability to do it at this, you know, especially at this point, you know, when you have, you know, the guys that they have. He doesn't have to put pressure, too much more pressure on himself. You know, he can put the pressure on himself to get better every single day. But as far as, you know, his rookie year or second year, he doesn't have to put the pressure of making every play. He has guys out there that can. That can help him with that. So, you know, I think he could possibly be in a position where he could, you know, build into who he's going to be at his pace and not with the league. Expect the number one player picked.

[A]

Where's my 25 a night?

[B]

Right. Exactly what you should be doing as your number one player. You're number one player out of high school, but, like, you know, maybe that's not my timeline. I hope he's. I hope he doesn't get pressured by what the narrative timeline is because you're the number one player picked.

[A]

So what do you think it looks like? I mean, that's a huge thing for him to go to a winning team where the pressure's not on him to score 25 a night from the start. Great for his development. But there must be, like, you've been in this position. There must be a little bit of a sense of relief on draft night just to get it behind you.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

You feel that way. And then what does it look like? What was your mentality after the draft? Because now it's like you've built up to this thing, like you said in the driveway, bed at night. Now you're drafted. You are going to an NBA team, you're moving to a city. What was your mindset like? I mean, obviously you knew you were going to Cleveland early. He knows he's going to Dallas. What was your mindset like? Of like, this is what this summer looks like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was, you know, you're young.

[A]

Young guys.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Super young. Yep. And, you know, I have been building up for the NBA for a couple years. You know, like, you know, my junior and senior year, high school had been, you know, I wouldn't say building up to, like, you know, to play against those guys, but I kind of knew that, you know, after my junior year that I had an opportunity to go straight out of high school. So I was kind of building up, you know, my reps, building up my strength, building up my stamina, things of that nature. And then right after the draft, I was like, okay, you know, just get to work. You know, I knew summer league was coming up, you know, and I didn't get an opportunity to be a part of Vegas long, long, many, many years ago.

[A]

Where was it?

[B]

We was in Boston to start, and then Orlando. Yeah, yeah, that was more regional.

[A]

We had Utah out here, way back there at Long Beach.

[B]

Yeah, they had long. I remember that. Yeah, I remember that. So I was just getting ready for, you know, for summer league. And it was just a lot, though. Like, I couldn't really, like, you know, really, really lock in on, like, you know, you have so much to do. You got the media stuff to do. The ESPYS was going on and, you know, they want you at the ESPYs and, you know, once you're summer league here. But I just wanted to have fun with the process, you know, and, you know, I enjoyed it. It was a lot of pressure. You know, the games were, like, sold out for summer league games, and I was. It was a lot of pressure in that sense, but I just want to try to have a lot of fun with it and. And make the most out of this summer. Going into my.

[A]

So how did you, like, how did you manage? Like, everyone's personality is different. Like, I could see you enjoying going to the SPS and being, like, the center of attention in a way, because you have a fun, gregarious personality that my Cooper may not be that way. What was your approach to that stuff? Like, I had the sps, obviously. I got all this Nike stuff, media stuff, other brands. Like, how did you as an 18 year old kind of manage that?

[B]

Yeah, I mean. I mean, it was fun for me, you know, it was super fun for me, you know. You know, I always kept the main thing. The main thing, though, Like, I understood that at the end of the day, I had to. I had to work. Like, if I wanted to enjoy, then I needed to work. And even when I came out to LA and, you know, did the ESPYs, I literally left summer league in Boston, flew here for the ESPYs, I believe, and Then right after that, I had to fly back to Orlando, you know, but I didn't miss. I didn't miss a day in the gym. You know, I stayed in the gym. I wanted to work, I wanted to get better. And I also wanted to have fun and enjoy it, but at the same time understanding what the main goal was. And the main goal for me is the only reason I'm able to I'm invited to the sps, is because I play the game of basketball. And that is, you make sure you keep that, the main thing. That's the focus.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, and I think for cooperation. As long as he understands you keep the main thing, the main thing. Man, you know, Pat Riley has made that, you know, a famous quote. I kind of knew that. I knew that even as an 18 year old kid. As long as I keep the main thing, the main thing, then nothing will sway me away from what I want my career to look like.

[A]

That's a good message. At the end of the day, it's the work, right? Stacking days, being consistent.

[B]

There's no substitution for hard work. No substitution for it.

[A]

It's the main separator, right. Is how we work. What do you think? Why do you think some players thrive more in the NBA than college?

[B]

I mean, that's a great question. Obviously, when I watch some college games, and I'm gonna be honest, it's hard to watch college games a lot because of the space, the spacing. It feels like everyone went down. Yeah, it feels like everyone is in the paint. Everyone is in the paint. And some programs do a great job of now trying to open it up. And, you know, I watched Florida, you know, this past year, they kind of play a version of like the NBA style. You know, a couple years ago, the Connecticut team, their version of, you know, passing in and cutting and keeping his space and keeping everybody out of the paint. But ultimately you could still just, if you want to, you could just stand in the paint defensively and not move, you know. So I think, you know, you bring certain guys into the league that maybe didn't thrive as much in college, but the space also, you know, one thing that, you know, it's funny what Bronny told me. He was like, the best thing about the NBA compared to college is that I can literally just focus straight on basketball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like in college I had to go to class. You know, you have to meet, you have to do work and stuff like that. You have to, you know, go to, you know, all these things that's going On. On campus and meet with the academic advisors here and then meet with these people here. He's like, you know, as much as you think basketball is like the main thing in college, sometimes it's not. You know, he said, once, you know, once I got drafted and realized, listen, oh, all I gotta. I could just go to the gym early, get my work in practice, go home, take a nap, and I could come back to the gym again, like, and then go home and go to sleep, play my game. Like, he was like, this is the best. So I think you're able to hone your skills and just play more basketball too, which helps a lot of guys too.

[A]

Yeah. We also had Luke on with us talking about how it's almost easier sometimes in the NBA because of the space, even though he also said the players are way better than maybe the Euroleague or college. But the spacing does make the game and the pace makes the game. You have more opportunities. The only problem is to be successful in the NBA. Like, to be efficient as an NBA player. Like we're talking about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's not that many people on the planet that are really efficient NBA players. So. Yeah, okay, you got more space and time now you got to make something happen with it. Right. Like day after day after day.

[B]

You then got to make the most.

[A]

Of it and be consistent. You know, it's interesting. We talk about, you know, the top pick, Cooper Flag. We talk about, you know, some players going undrafted. It's an interesting time too with NIL because if you're not a first, you know, a guaranteed first round pick and you're making really good money now to stay in college, like, there's. That's a big consideration, one, financially. And two, you can develop in a safe space. The mba. It's a risk. You could come out, go in the second round or not get drafted and not make the team.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

It's interesting. I think it's going somewhere positive. It's just a bit lawless.

[B]

Yeah, it's a little lawless right now. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's a little bit lawless right now. They got to figure it out. But I think like you said, as far as. Yeah, you have the. You're not as stressed out about declaring for the draft and then having to stay in, you know, if I hired an agent or whatever the case may be and not get drafted, you know, if. If you feel like you're not ready and you're developing and, you know, the nil is there. Right. You know, you still able to make good money. Stay on campus, still play great ball.

[A]

Facilities are unreal in college.

[B]

Facilities are great, you know, or, you know, hit the transfer portal, maybe, you know, you go somewhere else, you know, and you're able to, you know, cash in on the nil as well and continue to develop until you believe that you're. You're ready. Or now the scouts are even, you know, talking more, your name is out there a little bit more, saying that you are ready. So it's definitely a thing, like he says. And I was a little lawless right now, but mappy kids are making money, man. It was.

[A]

Yes, you know, yeah, it's. It's great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it feels like, is there a plan? Is there a plan coming together? The other thing about the draft that's interesting to me is, like, the way the game's becoming so positionless. I feel like there's a premium on that positionless player with potential, and it seems like it's evolving. I'd love to get your take on this, but, like, it started like three and D guys, because they could guard multiple positions, they could stretch the floor. You watch these two teams in the finals. They're asking their quote, unquote, three and D guys now to be able to play Blender. So, like, it's not just stand in the corner, make a three and guard. It's now you gotta be able to guard different positions. You gotta be able to make a perimeter shot. You also have to, when given a closeout, drive the ball, make the next play. Do you feel like that's where this game's evolved to?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, being able to put five guys on the floor that can do multiple things, and if not everything. Not saying everything great, right. You only need one or two guys that can do. You can have the. You have your staple guys that could do everything great. Like you said, make the simple play, but being able to at least attract the eyes of another defender, so when. If that defender helps, you can just get off of it. And now it starts to Blender action, you know, and, you know, these players are being sought after more and more and more as the years are going. And it's. You're seeing, you're seeing, you know, you saw obviously what Boston been able to do with those guys. Those guys are all positionless, you know, being able to, you know, catch, shoot, drive past. That's it. You know, and then you have the great ones, obviously, you have the Brown and the Tatums that they can do. They give it a little bit more freedom to do that. You Know, and now you see, you see Indiana, you see okc, they put all guys on the floor that can make plays. You know, even, even Hardenstein, you know, they give him the ball. Boom. Pinch post, uphill, dho, okay, you jump out too fast. Okay, Uphill, keep dho, keep floater, you know, floater. Or okay, my guy, you overplayed. I can make a backdoor cut after the split action. I can make those passes, you know, so you don't, you don't look at him as a guy that could, but he actually can, you know? You know what I'm saying? Miles Turner the same way. But we was talking about like on the last show when we. Miles Turner, as I'm a short roll, you're going to think I'm rolling all the way. And then when my guy drives, you're going to be in the paint. Now I'm going to pop all the way back to the three. And if you close out, I could put the ball on the floor to give myself a shot or get it sprayed. You know, those are ob, top and same. Those guys are just positionless players where, okay, we switch. I can guard to one, I can guard the five, I can guard the four. You know, those are players that's very key to teams being able to, like you said, be positionless in our league.

[A]

Yeah, it's always interesting this time of year to see in the draft how many guys in that kind of like 6, 4 to 6, 9 range get taken and where they're at in their development. How many teams are like, they know what this guy can do or this is a project we got to develop. But he fits a profile that our team and our league needs. That's always fascinating.

[B]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[A]

Just like waiting for the perfect moment to take that game winning shot. Prime Day has always been my favorite time to make the call on those big purchases. And this year it's going to be even bigger. We're taking four full days of amazing deals on everything you've been wanting. This Prime Day will be the perfect moment to upgrade your home gym, transform your kitchen, or dive into a new hobby you've been thinking about. I've been on the hunt for a lumbar support that my buddy LeBron James told me to get in extra firm. And with all these deals coming up, there's never been a better time to make that happen. Whether you're gearing up for summer projects or wanting to treat yourself to something special, Prime Day is the time to do it. Four days of incredible deals and endless possibilities. Shop Prime Day, July 8th through 11th. Trust me, you don't want to miss this. Well, shifting gears, I wanted to talk a little bit about some of these rule changes or concepts that I've been hearing out there recently. Now, some of these are to make the game better, but some of them are to make the game better for the fans. And I think that's kind of the prism we gotta to look at these. So the one that's been talked about a lot with all the three point shooting, the evolution of the three is to eliminate the corner three so it'll be clear, you know, the three point line curves and then it goes straight down to the corner. I believe the concept would be that that curve just goes until it touches.

[B]

The sideline and then that's it.

[A]

And that's it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So anything in the corners is a two, a long, long one, two, two, a long two. Where does that take our game? Like, I like our game. I like our game. But let's envision, let's envision, you know, a guy standing in the corner trying to space the floor, but he's not spacing for a three.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it would be an adjustment. You know, I think we. Listen, one thing about us as NBA players, we are adaptable. And if we have to, no matter if we like it or not, we're able to adapt. I mean, I like our game where it is. I think the corner three is a, you know, it's, it's a great, it's a great shot. Obviously it's the best shot in our league besides a dunk or a layup or a free throw. But, but I mean, it will be something that could be, could be looked at. I mean, if, if the fans and, and our committee board are saying, okay, maybe let's take a look at it. I think it should be something that could possibly be explored. Like you said like a summer league or a G league showcase or something like that. You don't just throw it to us right away. The players are not you. The NBA guys don't want to just, just throw it onto us.

[A]

It's a big change.

[B]

Yeah, it's a huge change.

[A]

You can't just.

[B]

Yeah, you can't just throw it on us like that. Like, oh, well, here we go, guys. You showed the practice the first day of training camp and there's no corner three.

[A]

What am I doing?

[B]

What am I doing?

[A]

Yeah, that one seems like too big a leap for me. Yeah, too big a leap for me now. I think our game would have to get. Because like I said, I love our game. So what are we talking about? That's not one that I would tweak, you know, I agree. What about eliminating three seconds in the lane? That basically gets us to fiba.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. In college.

[A]

In college, Right. We just talked about how college can get a little bogged down. No spacing. You know, we want to encourage speed of play, skill, athleticism, fast pace.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So for the fans, too, you know, it's a give and take, obviously, but I like the way our game's played. Open and fast. It's getting to more of a. It's more jazz now. Like, read and react, play out of principles. Seeing the players think and adapt on the flies. I think this is an incredible era for me. Here's what I'm talking about. Defensive Player of the Year. Do we need a big and a small? Because a lot traditionally the bigs have dominated. Right. You know, you got that rim protector back in my day, you know, you got the odd guard, but usually it was like the bigs. It felt like. Do you feel like there should be a big. Like a big and a perimeter?

[B]

I don't know if it should be a big and a perimeter, but I do think the landscape of how we. The voting and how we clarify the Defensive Player of the Year is determined, you know? You know, because, you know, right now, like, if you can't. If you can't guard. If you can't guard on the perimeter, you know, you can't play.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But if you're a big. And you can go and you can. You can't guard bigs. You can actually still play because there's not much. It's not the 90s anymore where guys are posting up a lot.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You know, the game is more on the perimeter. So, you know, I think that just the clarity of what the Defensive player award actually means. So like some sort of criteria, some type of criteria. I. I did. I did think about how, like, the NFL does Offensive Player of the Year and mvp. I thought that could possibly be something in our league where you give a Offensive Player of the Year. Interesting. You know, and an mvp. Right. You know, not saying we should do it, but it was something that was like, pretty cool. Like in the NFL, how they do that. They do the Offensive Player of the Year. Defensive Player of the Year.

[A]

That's a great point.

[B]

Mvp.

[A]

We have defense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We don't have offense. We have defense and mvp.

[B]

Right. We have. Yeah. So maybe something.

[A]

Because also because there's no real Criteria about mvp. It's a statement, most valuable player. But what's, what is the criteria? Because, you know, we, I think we usually associate it in some capacity with team success, which is a good thing. But is it said? It's like, you know, and is it good that it's sort of this nebulous kind of thing? We don't exactly know. But there's a narrative sometimes that forms or there's a popular opinion, a populist that develops. Like maybe that's just the way it should be.

[B]

Right? Yeah. Cause it's. No, it's changes. It's like, okay, so is it the best player? You know, is it the player that had the best season with his team? You know, maybe that's offensive player of the year, you know, or is it the just simply the best player in the league, like he statistically was the best player of the year league, you know, no matter, you know, obviously you're not going to have a guy in there that's like, doesn't. The team didn't come close to making the playoffs. Well, obviously, because if that's the case, then he's not the best player, you know. But yeah, it's not the most valuable then. But if it's. I don't know, it just changes. It changes too much.

[A]

Your offensive player of the year is interesting. I think that one's interesting. I haven't really thought about it a lot, but that is interesting because maybe that helps direct this thing. Because you could be on a poor team, have an unbelievable offensive year. You could still win offensive player of the year and vice versa. You could maybe not have the best year in the league, but you were the most valuable in taking your team to a new height. So there's all sorts of like a prism here to kind of decide. So that would maybe take some of that down with an offensive player. All right, what about the four point shot? We're talking about taking away the corners, but what about just adding. How would that work? Would that go to the sideline, from above the three.

[B]

Do they move?

[A]

I'm sure you sit at home thinking about this all the time, right?

[B]

No, we, we can't do that. No, no, we can't do that. I mean, I mean we can, we can do anything we want. But I don't like the, when you start talking about the four point shot, yes, you have guys that shoot from the, shoot from the logo in our, in our league and shoot from way behind the three point line. But we also got to think about like the younger Generation that's looking up to us as the pros and they watch everything that we do. Everything. And what I, what I wouldn't want to happen is kids developing, trying to shoot a four point shot at 8, 9, 10 years old when their bodies and their muscles are not even there. I don't even. My best friend, Drew Joyce, his dad did not let him take a three point shot till I believe we was like in the seventh grade.

[A]

Someone in the league was just saying that the other day, I believe. Was it book?

[B]

It might have been book. He was talking about his form.

[A]

He's not allowed to shoot threes yet.

[B]

And I want to get this correct. I can ask my best friend after, but I believe I know for sure. Like when we play little league, his dad would not let him shoot. He's like, you're not strong enough and you're not about to mess up your shot because you're literally just pushing it up there, like chugging it, like a full court shot. So he didn't let him shoot threes till we was like in the seventh, seventh, eighth grade. Yeah. So will you add a four point shot to our league? What it's going to do to our kids and our younger generation? It's going to. I don't like it. I wouldn't like it.

[A]

You got kids prioritizing things in our room. Don't really matter.

[B]

Remind me like MTV Rock and Jot. Remember that? Yeah. Like the 30 point shot guys shoot all the way up.

[A]

Is there a trampoline? No, there wasn't a trampoline. That was. What was the one with the trampolines?

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Oh, slam ball. Yeah.

[A]

Slam ball.

[B]

Yeah. Slam ball. Yeah.

[A]

I had a college teammate that played slam ball.

[B]

That was funny.

[A]

Made it to the league. What do we got here? What about eliminating the charge? So I also wonder about this one. Like, what if you could still stand in and take a charge? There's just no call. But it's not. If you were set, it's not a foul.

[B]

It's not a foul at all. You just take that. You just take.

[A]

I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, what are we talking about here? You can't do it at all. Or can you go in and if it's, if it's a charge, it's just no call. You just keep playing. Like if you're spit, if your feet aren't set, it's a foul.

[B]

Oh. And if you're not set, it's a foul.

[A]

Foul. That's what this is saying. There's no charge, so. But if you're still set, you could step in like. Like, if. If you're coming down the lane. I'm not block. I'm not meeting you at the rim. But maybe I could slide in and take a charge. I don't get a charge.

[B]

The refs are just like, no, there's already too much conflict between players and referees already. Could you imagine you take a charge on, like, Giannis or, like, Embiid, and you're there, you're there.

[A]

But I'm trying to think about, what does this mean? Like, because if you take away the charge, a guy barrels down the lane, your only. Only option is try to meet him at the vertical.

[B]

Verticality. That's it. That's the only. That's the only thing you can do then. Or foul.

[A]

Yeah. But even verticality sometimes can be a charge.

[B]

It can be.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's kind of like a gray area. Yeah. Right.

[B]

Like with his elbow. With his leg.

[A]

Yeah. Anyways, I.

[B]

No charge. Stay Charge.

[A]

Gotta stay, right? Gotta stay. I think that.

[B]

Gotta stay.

[A]

That'll make the game, too.

[B]

Yeah. Gotta stay Too wild. Like Arch Rivals, then, right?

[A]

I.

[B]

Did you remember that game on Nintendo, Arch Rivals? They used to go, crazy people up, catch a cross. Yeah.

[A]

Crazy transition.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What about just cleaning up some of our rules? Where are you at with, like, illegal screens? I feel like there's a. It's creeping.

[B]

It's creeping. Yeah. I think we should. We gotta get it back in order a little bit. A little bit. A little bit.

[A]

It's not like. I don't mind the odd one. It feels like so many screenshots.

[B]

Like a hip or a hip or. Or the leg is a little bit too far out. Or the. You know, it's a difference between the touch and go and the actual shove and go. Yep. You know, now, you know, there's like. If I'm on the ball, you're displacing it. I'm on the ball and I just come up and shove you underneath your hip and I roll out. Because we know it's a switching league, so you're not. If you're not going to enforce that. I'm just. I'm going to push you up a little bit, and you're never going to get behind. You're never going to get behind to get the switch. So I think, you know. Yeah, we just. We gotta. We gotta look at it a little bit more. You know, I think the committee, the referee committee and the players, we just look at it a Little bit more. Just get a little bit more fundamental with it, you know?

[A]

You know, we've talked about it before, how you gotta give a guy space when you set it sometimes. You know how these.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, we hear it. But, you know, they tell, you know, first two, three weeks, yeah, we gotta do. And then it kind of just trickles back to what it was.

[A]

So same with the travel. You know, we've had different times, I think, for sure. During your career. Definitely during mine. Multiple times. We're trying to clean it up sometimes. I'm not like a crazy person on travel. Like, I like it to be a lot of freedom of movement. I don't want people just being crazy with it. But, like, the way, you know, we have the gather now, you know, guys obviously put their hand under the ball a little bit. It's the catch and go. There was times, you know, you know, it's like an international. International is different, too. Some refs are like, we practice it.

[B]

And we practice it. Like, you know, when we were gearing up for the Olympics, like we. Our first. The first thing we do when we say, everybody on the baseline, they throw us the ball. And you put. Put the ball down right away.

[A]

Bob Koozie.

[B]

Yep. Soon as you all right, you're catching the transition. Put it down. You can't. If you do this travel, international travel, every single time. No, no. Jab and go. No, right. Everything is. Put it down first.

[A]

See, I'm glad we're not like that.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

That's the language. That's how we all grew up playing in the playground or the open gym, whatever.

[B]

Yeah. You know, just, you know, just looking at. I guess, you know, just because I sometimes, since I'm serious, I get away with traveling sometimes, too. I can't sit here and say I don't because, you know, but I think we just. Just. I don't want to be, like, nitpicky about our players. I don't want to stop us from being creative or whatever the case may be, but just, you know, we can. We could probably. That's one of the things, like we're saying with the. With the office of files, we can clean it up a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. What's the most egregious travel you ever got away with?

[B]

Me? Yeah. The most egregious travel I ever got away with. And you know what? The basketball guys was not on my side. The one that comes to my mind right now, I was my second stint with Cleveland playing in Washington, and we were down one I got the ball and transitioned about half court and I was driving the lane. It's late in the game. I was driving the lane and I got into the lane and I traveled like a mother and I got all the way to the lane and missed the layup.

[A]

Missed the layup. They didn't call it. Travel.

[B]

They did not call the travel. I blew the. I blew the. I blew the layup.

[A]

It's cuz you felt guilty if.

[B]

I don't know if I felt guilty. It felt weird going like I had a wide open layup and missed it. It's the same game when I end up tying it, hitting the three pointer off the glass.

[A]

So they made a bucket.

[B]

They made two free throws.

[A]

Free throws.

[B]

And then I hit the.

[A]

So what do you mean the basketball gods weren't on your side?

[B]

Well, I mean, they came back around because. Yeah, it came back around because I'm true to the game. I missed it. If I would have made it, then, you know, we probably lost the game. Yeah. Basketball guys stayed with me a little bit. Beautiful. I love that. We're gonna pull that clip. So guys, you know how people be like, lebron's lying. He doesn't remember that. What is he talking about? That's exactly what happened. That was terrible. I had one this past season too, in Orlando. That was so bad. Switched my pivot feet. Missed the shot, too.

[A]

No call.

[B]

No call.

[A]

Just straight up pivoting on one. Change to the other.

[B]

Change it. Elbow. Yeah, terrible. Drove down the lane, I think. Yeah, I was at the elbow, pivot, foot. Oh, I didn't like that one. Switched it. Drove shot of a floater, hit inside the backboard. I said. Yep. Basketball, Scotty.

[A]

I think that's good. Yeah, that's 45.

[B]

I love it. Love it.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

Knock him out, boy. Knocking him out. I like.

[A]

Thanks for watching. Mind the game. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe for more content.