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- [00:02]
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- [00:30]
JJ Redick
Let's try to limit it to three hates this time.
- [00:34]
LeBron James
Three and under.
- [00:35]
Guest Speaker
That's the rule.
- [00:36]
LeBron James
You know what I hate? Yeah, you know what I hate, man.
- [00:55]
Podcast Host
Welcome to Mind the game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. Brought to you by uninterrupted and three four two productions. This is episode six. This episode is all about how three pointers change the game. And yes, I am biased. And yes, this is my favorite episode we have done so far. We explore pickup points, high pick and rolls, the deep range with which players can shoot with the step back three. LeBron's own evolution as a shooter. And perhaps closest to my heart, we nerd out on all the different catch and shoot sets that teams run to get shooters open. There is a lot of basketball and shooting in this episode. We recorded this a few weeks ago in Los Angeles prior to the start of the playoffs. But again, most of the stuff we do is not topical. I hope you enjoy episode six of Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. Before we get to our conversation, I'm just going to drop some plays.
- [02:00]
Guest Speaker
All right.
- [02:00]
Podcast Host
A lot of these are catch and shoot plays, set pieces, some side out of bounds. This is sort of an end game victory. I don't know who came up with this. I know. I think Brad Stevens ran this when he was the Boston Celtics coach. I know Klay Thompson got a game winner on this this season. This is a variation of it. There's different ways you can get to it. The basic concept here is that you're going to get a screen and a screen here. So this is a back screen along the baseline. As that's happening, this ball is going to be skipped all the way to the corner. This is the shooter, the circled player right here. So he receives a screen. As that ball's in the air, the five man turns back around and screens the shooter. You get an open shot a lot of times. There's two reasons why this play can work. Number one, a lot of times, if this is a shooter away from the ball and the ball Is over here. This defender is going to be in a top lock trying to prevent him from getting the ball. So you use that against him by having the re screen. Second thing is, let's say this defender fights over the top. What is everybody's tendency when the ball is in the air? They turn and look at the ball, right? They stop for a second. So that re screen can get the shooter open. Okay, a million different ways to get into a hammer action. But I'll just break it down very simply. The shooter is right here. There's usually a screener somewhere on the baseline. And let's say this is the passer and the big wing. As he drives baseline, this guy will come set a hammer screen for the shooter who then catches the pass along the baseline. Like I said, a million different ways to get into this. San Antonio spurs back when they had Boris Diao, Manu Ginobili, Boris would post up on this block or Manu would catch on this block. And I mean, these guys would literally. To make that skip pass, Boris would jump out of bounds to make that skip pass. Manu, if he would drive or post, he would jump out of bounds to make this skip pass. All right, pistol. Pistol action is just any interaction in a five out. Normally. Normally you have a five out setup. That's the ball handler. There's a man here in the corner. This guy can also start here in the wing. It actually doesn't really matter. There's a number of options. You can run out of pistol. This guy can come catch the ball and he can chase it. This guy can catch the ball, keep it going to a ball screen. For the purposes of this episode, this is a a variation of pistol. This would just be a pistol flare. So this guy can come set a ball screen or ghost screen. He comes off the screen. As that happens, the five man sets a flare screen for the shooter. Balls. Right here, you've got a shooter coming off a flare screen. And then the five man can either slip to the basket or continue on set a ball screen. Just different options out of pistol. All right, Indiana slash. What the fuck? All right, going to run this two different ways. So let's say this guy's the shooter. This is a side out of bounds play. Ball's right here. This is the five man. This is typically a big wing. So picture this as Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard. The inbounder will throw to the five man. The five man will reverse it. As that happens, the shooter, we'll set a back screen on the bigger player. You can either get a switch, the bigger player can punish a mismatch, or even if they don't switch, then there's a pick. The picker get balls over here. Ball's over here. Now it's been reversed. This guy goes and sets a rip screen, a back screen on the bigger player who can cut either way to the basket. Then there's a pick to pick for the shooter. I ran this a lot in Philadelphia. And when we would run it, I would sometimes take it out, or I would be here. So if I took it out, say this is me as that ball is reversed. This guy comes to set a back screen. I give a little nudge and I get the pick right here. I don't go off. Back screen. The other thing the shooter will do. You see Duncan Robinson do this all the time. This again, this is Jimmy Butler. Here's the five. All right, Ball's in. Ball reverses. Duncan goes to set the pick. He simultaneously just slips out of there and gets the screen from the five man. Coming up top, Oklahoma. Oklahoma small. Again, every team has different terminologies, but this is generally considered Oklahoma action. Now, you can run it to either way. It's Golden State. Klay Thompson's over here. Sometimes, for the purposes of this, this is going to be me running this. So this is a double drag. It starts with a double drag screen. The shooter's the first screen. So I set a screen. Ball handler comes off. Five man sets a screen. Soon as he sets the screen, he then picks me. That's Oklahoma action. So double drag into a pick, the picker. Show you two variations of this. Let's say you put the shooter as the second guy. Miami did this a lot last year with Max Strus. Golden State does this with Clay. So this is the five man again. As the ball handler comes off this first screen from the 5, the shooter will just slip into space. A lot of times this is actually an empty side. So shooter has this whole side again. Shooter, five man, first screen. As he comes off, shooter goes to set. The screen slips into space as the ball handler comes off and the shooter goes. Five men can also set a little flare screen right there. Again, every time that you generally see this, this is an empty side. Here's one variation of Oklahoma, Oklahoma small action that Utah will run for Markkanen. So this is Markkanen right here. He'll come up from the. Basically the block. He'll set the first screen. Big guy will come up, he'll set the second screen. Ball handler comes off. So now you've got Markkanen here. Ball handler over here. Five men has just set the second ball screen. He then goes and screens Oklahoma Action. Just a little variation. All right, Finland. We're calling this Finland. In some ways, this is a variation of Oklahoma Small. It also has the same sort of concept that Indiana has. So floor is spaced. This is the shooter right here. All right, Same thing. Double drag. This is typically bigger wing, four man, double drag. As that happens, the shooter will set a back screen on the bigger wing or four man who can look for a lob. So now you've got that guy running for a lob. Shooter's already set the screen. Ball handler's over here. This is the five. Five then goes and runs a pin away for the shooter. All right, that's Finland for the purposes of this episode. But again, same sort of concepts as Oklahoma. Same sort of concept as Indiana. All right, clipper down or 15 down. I think LeBron calls it clipper down because he stole it from us. But we called it 15 down and you see a lot of this. All right, so this is the five right here. This is the shooter in the corner. Again, this is. Let's say it's me. This is Chris Paul with the ball. This is DeAndre Jordan. 15. 15 was the call for our high pick and roll between a 1 and a 5. So 15 down is 15 into a down screen. So DeAndre would come up like he was going to set the pick and roll. Chris would come off. He would. DeAndre would slip it and then go set a pin down for me. Chris then hits me coming off left to right. Action. Free game. Previous episode we talked about Iverson cuts. All right, this is Iverson, Ricky. Don't know why I call it that, but I do. Five mans right here. Shooters right here. Ball handlers right here. All right, the wing is going to run this Iverson cut off of these two screens. The ball handler is going to hit the wing off of the Iverson cut and chase it to the corner. Ball's right here. Again, remember, the shooter set the first screen five minutes at the second screen on the Iverson. So the shooter's right here. Five just goes and pins away. Open three up top. It's essentially the same concept as Oklahoma. You're just doing it off of an Iverson cut. Iverson. Ricky, maybe we should call it Iverson Oklahoma.
- [12:00]
JJ Redick
Hope you guys enjoy this episode. I know I loved having this conversation.
- [12:04]
Podcast Host
With LeBron about three point shooting.
- [12:07]
JJ Redick
This is Mind the Game episode six.
- [12:09]
Podcast Host
How three point shooting changed everything. Please hit that subscribe button, if you haven't already. Thanks for all the support. We'll be back soon with another episode.
- [12:26]
JJ Redick
There's probably gonna be some comments. Cause now there's four bottles of wine here. And not just, yeah, we started with two. All I'm saying is, like, you brought two. Our friend David brought a couple.
- [12:33]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [12:35]
JJ Redick
Thank you for that. I wanna talk in this episode about three pointers. Cause we've talked spacing, we've talked some specific actions. I wanna get big picture. Three, three pointers. Why it's important, how it's changed. And then get granular with some specific actions that teams run for specific players.
- [12:57]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [12:58]
JJ Redick
I want to start though. The other night in Brooklyn, you went nine for 10 from three.
- [13:03]
LeBron James
Yeah. Appreciate it. Thanks for the inspiration too.
- [13:05]
JJ Redick
I wasn't even in town. I was on spring break with my kids.
- [13:08]
LeBron James
I thought about you the whole time I was in Brooklyn. Appreciate it. Thank you.
- [13:11]
JJ Redick
Can you describe that state of being?
- [13:15]
LeBron James
I mean, I guess only a few of us can describe it. You being one of them, a few other guys being in that. In that zone. It's. You know, I used to watch this movie back in the day called Major League. Famous quote off Major League is chicks dig the long ball.
- [13:33]
JJ Redick
Yes.
- [13:34]
LeBron James
And it's a different feeling when you're shooting that three ball like that. It's just a. I don't know, it's a euphoric feeling that's different from catching a lob dunk for myself or getting a zone where you like, okay, you know, I'm in the post, my post game is working. But when you shooting that three ball at a high clip, like I was doing in Brooklyn, it was like, that was one of the best feelings, for sure.
- [14:03]
JJ Redick
There's like a flow state attachment. I feel like when you're shooting threes, because I play golf. And golf is about muscle memory, muscle sequencing. And when you're shooting a basketball, it is about that muscle memory, muscle sequencing. And it's not always right. That's the thing I don't think people understand is like, I can shoot. You can shoot eight threes and make four of them. And you're not in the flow state.
- [14:34]
LeBron James
Right.
- [14:34]
JJ Redick
Subsequently, I could shoot eight threes and make four of them and feel like every shot was effortless. There's a big difference to me. I remember specific games where I would shoot 6 for 11 from 3 and be like, I didn't feel. It didn't feel right tonight.
- [14:49]
LeBron James
Why is that? Cause I understand exactly what you're saying.
- [14:51]
JJ Redick
You know, exactly what I'm saying yeah.
- [14:53]
LeBron James
Cause when you are in that, when you are in that rim of shooting, sometimes it doesn't even feel right and it goes in you like what the fuck was that? You just keep going with it. Like it's like, I mean the other night in Brooklyn though, everyone I even, I took a couple threes in Brooklyn that I don't take on a game to game basis.
- [15:18]
JJ Redick
Right corner, gather.
- [15:19]
LeBron James
Right corner, gather.
- [15:20]
JJ Redick
And then the left step back, gather. Yeah, those were stupid.
- [15:23]
LeBron James
Yeah, I was just, I was just feeling really good, you know. I love New York, man.
- [15:30]
JJ Redick
Joe Missoula said something the other day and I was like, it's pertinent to this conversation. I think he was talking about Al Horford and how one of the reasons Al has had longevity and is still an impactful player is because he has evolved with the game. You think about Al early in his career with Atlanta. He's shooting heavy dose of mid range, he's playing drop coverage, guarding fives. Then he becomes a three point shooter, he becomes a switch defender, he becomes a high post hub. Those years with it, he was a high post hub. And so in some ways the three point shooting with you, you have evolved and adapted with the game. Has any coach, front office person, analytics person, like on staff, have they ever came to you and talked to you about analytics and shot profile with you? No, never had that discussion, man.
- [16:35]
LeBron James
Fuck no. No, I mean throughout my, I mean.
- [16:40]
JJ Redick
Listen, you know, you know that those discussions are happening though.
- [16:43]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure. Of course they are.
- [16:44]
JJ Redick
Certain players are told, oh yeah, for sure.
- [16:46]
LeBron James
That do not take those shots anymore. No. Because I've always been a very efficient basketball player. I'm not a guy to go out and cast a bunch of shots. I try to get, you know, I won't say the best shot because you can never get every possession, you can't always get the best shot. But I've always tried to figure out ways on the floor where I could that possession maybe get the best shot. And sometimes you may have to force one end of the shot clock or you know, you may feel like you, you know, in a good rhythm you might force one, whatever the case may be. But I've never been too much of a pull up jump shooter off the dribble, mid range shooter. I did it a little bit early on in my career, early in my career, you know, but as I've gotten older, I've been more in the post mid range as far as the Karl Malone area on the block. And now I've expanded my Game to the three point line over the last few years where I feel like pretty much unguardable.
- [17:49]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:51]
JJ Redick
I wish I knew what that feeling was like my, my second year in Philly. So my, my first year in Philly, I shot, God, a fucking 42 point something percent from three and average a career high, a measly 17. But I'm very proud of that 17 points a game. And you know, I was a guy second half of my career. I had a home base in the off season, so I'd go train and I wasn't around the team. Then I'd come back right before training camp. When I got back that second year, I had our analytics guy said, I want to meet with you. And he showed me all these different charts and stats about like, if you stop shooting mid range and start shooting more threes. Because I, I'm gonna be honest with you, Brog. I was a great mid range shooter. A great mid range shooter for sure. And I even, I was told shoot more threes. So that second year I took eight a game, which was my career high.
- [18:49]
Guest Speaker
Right.
- [18:50]
JJ Redick
And I averaged over 18 a game. But my efficiency dropped right to 39.7% or whatever it was. But it's still. Mathematically, this is the thing people don't. Mathematically it was better for me to shoot more at 39% than shoot those middies at 49% or whatever I was doing. That's the wild thing about the NBA.
- [19:12]
LeBron James
Yeah, I definitely, I mean, I can sit here and tell you that I definitely have some of our coaches on our coaching staff. They want me to shoot more threes.
- [19:21]
JJ Redick
They're encouraging it.
- [19:22]
LeBron James
Yeah, they're encouraging, encouraging me to shoot more threes. I can't do it. I can't get to that. I can't, I can't get to that point.
- [19:29]
JJ Redick
Is it a rising, is it an ego thing?
- [19:30]
LeBron James
No, it's not an ego thing. It's not an ego thing. It's like I'm not putting enough pressure on the defense. If I'm shooting 12 to 14 threes a game, you know, if I'm shooting 12, 14 threes a game, I feel like I can hit six or seven of them. You know, if I'm fucking off off, then, you know, three or four of them. But I can shoot high clip at. If I'm shooting 14 a game, I'm gonna get in a rhythm, but I'm not putting pressure on the defense. And that's not me.
- [19:59]
Guest Speaker
Right.
- [20:00]
LeBron James
I gotta put pressure on the defense. Like if we have the Guys already on our team shooting a bunch of threes, which is okay. Like I love that there has to be some pressure on the rim. I have to put some fear in the defense that you're not about to make me just shoot all jump shots even if I'm shooting the wheel.
- [20:19]
JJ Redick
So it's a great point because I think certain players, and you're one of them that can do it with your drives. Luka, same way. James in Houston, same way with his ISOs and his drives. Duncan Robinson a different way. But certain players can cause an overreaction.
- [20:40]
LeBron James
Oh, for sure.
- [20:41]
JJ Redick
And I want to get into that later on, but that's where this conversation is going. But I want to, I want to do some stats first. I just want to read you some stats. Okay. So in 2013, 2014, which was the first year of the tracking era, league average, 21.53 point attempts per game. This year it's 35 three point attempts per game. There's no 35, 35. Almost 14 more threes a game. Those numbers are as of April 3rd. The Rockets in 2013, 2014 took 26.63. That was number one. Grizzlies took the grit and grind. Grizzlies took 14 threes a game. They were last in the league this year. The Nuggets are the number 30 team in three point attempts per game. And they shoot 31 a game. You guys are 29.
- [21:36]
LeBron James
Orlando's 28.
- [21:39]
JJ Redick
Pistons are 27. So obviously threes have gone up. Not all threes are created equal though.
- [21:45]
LeBron James
No.
- [21:45]
JJ Redick
Here's some other data that I just. I love this. There's 22 players this year that have taken 150 or more threes off the dribble. Luka's number one. He's taken 497 again as of April 3rd. In 2014, 2015, only four players took 153s or more off the dribble. The interesting thing is there's been no change in effective field goal percentage from those numbers. Yeah, it's still right around 55% pick and roll. It's literally the same thing. 16 players have taken 150 or more pick and roll threes this year. Luka's number one at 361. Six players took 153s or more in pick and roll in 2014, 2015. The effect field goal percentage is the same. So by prioritizing the three offenses at have become more efficient.
- [22:40]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [22:41]
JJ Redick
What does the threat. This is the overreaction part. What does the threat of Steph Curry in a high pick and roll. Damian Lillard in a high pick and roll. Trae Young in a high pick and roll. Luka in a high pick and roll. What does that do? How does that bend the defense? How does that cause the overreaction?
- [23:00]
LeBron James
Two on the ball. It's numbers game. You two on the ball. If you got great screen setters, Draymond Capella, you know, whoever Luka is going to have either. If it was Dwight Powell, now you know Daniel Gafford. Lively, lively. He's learned it quick. He's learned it quick. If you have a great screen setter and you have a laser like that, who shoots, like you said, over 300 off the dribble, pick and roll, threes. That's the chain reaction. That's why you have all these guys that's shooting career higher percentages with these lasers than they ever do with anybody else. Because it's the chain reaction. The numbers game is automatic. If you're not up on the screen, you're late, you're going to have two on the ball and those guys are good enough, great enough to play in the pocket. Now it's four on three. And we talked about this last time. Draymond Green's biggest asset offensively for Golden State is his ability to get Steph open, Klay open, but then play in the pocket where his asset is four on three and now his IQ kicks in. That's the threat. If you can't cause a trigger, then everyone's going to be at home. That's the name of the game. How can you cause a trigger? Pick and roll, pin down, dhos, split game, whatever it is, whatever your portfolio of your team and your player, how can you cause the trigger? Because once the trigger happened, that's when you become successful.
- [24:38]
JJ Redick
Yeah. Last year in the playoffs, Anthony Davis, who you've given glowing reviews on this podcast about his ability to be in multiple places at once, Golden State strategy became high pick and roll. With Steph Curry. We have to get Anthony Davis away from the basket. Away from the basket. Right. So going through that and those adjustments that you guys made throughout that series, because I think an important part of this too was they essentially were playing two non shooters with Draymond and Kavan. And then to open up space, it was something that in terms of volume, Steve Kerr and Steph Curry had never ran that amount of volume of pick and rolls prior to that series. So what were sort of the adjustments that you guys made once they had success with that?
- [25:33]
LeBron James
We had to start Switching because we won. Like I always keep saying, once Draymond gets into the pocket, it is very, very, very hard to. Now reel it back. You can't allow D D to play in the pocket because he's too damn good. And also what you can't not do at the same time, if you're the big X5 or X4 in your garden to pick and roll, you can't be late on Steph Curry's pick and roll because it's going to be a great screen and Steph is coming off clean. If you have the personnel, which obviously a lot of teams don't, that's why not many teams have beat Golden State in the playoffs, in a playoff series, have the ability to switch.
- [26:22]
JJ Redick
You talk about being late on a Steph Curry pick and roll. So this was. I fucking hated this play. I hated this play. And when I was on the Clippers, they would just kill us with this. So this oftentimes would be a guy. Let's say it's Clay. So you're not going to switch. This is the five, man.
- [26:41]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [26:42]
JJ Redick
He's going to set a down screen at this angle.
- [26:45]
LeBron James
Try to clip the five.
- [26:46]
JJ Redick
Try to clip the five, Rex.
- [26:47]
LeBron James
Voil?
- [26:47]
JJ Redick
We've talked about this before. Bigs are terrible. Navigating screens for sure.
- [26:51]
LeBron James
The worst.
- [26:52]
JJ Redick
So all of a sudden, Draymond, Andrew Bogut flying now, created separation.
- [26:57]
LeBron James
And they're flying. Yes.
- [26:59]
JJ Redick
This defender right here. And again, I'm sorry for drawing the X's as offensive players, but it's just how I do it. This defender is naked, he's on an island. Right.
- [27:08]
LeBron James
He doesn't know what's going on. Meanwhile, he's like this the whole time.
- [27:11]
JJ Redick
So now this Big is. Now this big is behind this play.
- [27:13]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [27:14]
JJ Redick
He's five, six steps behind this play as Steph comes off here again, he can shoot this three, Right. He's got the separation required. But oftentimes what would happen is this overreaction from the Big to get out.
- [27:28]
LeBron James
Steph does like this.
- [27:29]
JJ Redick
Yes.
- [27:29]
LeBron James
And just drops it in the pocket.
- [27:31]
JJ Redick
Drop it in the pocket. It's a four and three.
- [27:33]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [27:33]
LeBron James
And now Clay has worked his way out here. You're afraid to leave Klay, and you got Andre Iguodala, Andrew Wiggins, Kumonga, you know what's going on.
- [27:44]
JJ Redick
Yeah. So obviously Steph can shoot this three.
- [27:47]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [27:47]
JJ Redick
But as this Big is frantically trying to get out here. Yeah, he's done the overreaction to the threat of this. He's going to over commit whether it's a shot fake or whether it's just getting out. This defender right here, he's chasing.
- [28:04]
LeBron James
He's chasing over.
- [28:05]
JJ Redick
So now the big has a free run.
- [28:06]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [28:06]
LeBron James
And pocket pass, Draymond. Pocket pass lob to one of those athletes, you know, and it's over with.
- [28:12]
JJ Redick
I mean, this is the stuff. This is the stuff, though, that in different ways, you know, Damian Lillard gets this, Trey Young gets this.
- [28:22]
Podcast Host
It's.
- [28:23]
JJ Redick
Yeah, I'm sure there's other guys I'm forgetting, but it's this idea of these high pick and rolls. Now we see, like Madra correctly this time.
- [28:35]
LeBron James
You have a dry race board today.
- [28:38]
JJ Redick
Now we see. Now we see pickup points just inside half court.
- [28:42]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [28:43]
JJ Redick
Again, you're asking. First of all, you're asking this guard to navigate.
- [28:47]
LeBron James
They call it the four point line now.
- [28:48]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [28:49]
LeBron James
And secondly, Biggs are not a cuss of kin.
- [28:54]
Podcast Host
This is the thing I just want.
- [28:55]
JJ Redick
To point out because I was talking to somebody about this the other day, and it goes back to like the five out concept.
- [29:04]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [29:05]
JJ Redick
It's like, I love watching basketball, period. And I love watching any era. I watch games on YouTube. It's like, I wish I could have seen some of these players in person. They're educational and informative.
- [29:21]
LeBron James
LeBron.
- [29:23]
JJ Redick
They're educational and informative. Like, we would never. We would never see this. Where, you know, an offensive team is going this way and two players run to the block. We'll never see that.
- [29:37]
Guest Speaker
Right.
- [29:38]
Podcast Host
So now.
- [29:39]
LeBron James
Yeah, that's over with.
- [29:40]
JJ Redick
That's. That's. That was the requirement, like, for a big. That. This is the area. Even early in my career, this was the requirement. That's. That's the area you have to cover.
- [29:48]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [29:48]
JJ Redick
Last year's playoff series against the warriors is a great example. You're now asking Anthony Davis to cover all over here. And by the way, we need you.
- [29:59]
LeBron James
To get back and cover the rim.
- [30:00]
JJ Redick
The point in all this is again, going back to just spacing in. Five out.
- [30:05]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [30:05]
JJ Redick
Okay, so you're taking. Sorry, I'm oscillating between X and O's offensive defense. If this is. This is X5 right here.
- [30:15]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [30:15]
JJ Redick
He's got an O and an X. But if you're taking in your case, by the way, because I've looked up the data on this, you're taking a top five to ten rim defender.
- [30:27]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [30:28]
JJ Redick
All the way out of here. You're then relying on some of no offense. Some of the worst rim defenders by percentages in the NBA this year, for sure. That is the challenge Of a modern defense. That is because there's enough guys as I just went through this, the numbers. There's enough guys night to night that are shooting out of high. Pick and roll.
- [30:51]
LeBron James
Yeah. And Dallas have two of them.
- [30:54]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [30:56]
LeBron James
Okay. Luka comes off the pick and roll, the big's up and then he swings it to Kyrie. The big. Gotta get all the way over there and do the same thing. Yeah, that's the challenge. Yeah, that's what Boston is so good. That's why you're afraid to even have a big up instead of just switching everything. But then they have so many great one on one players.
- [31:13]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [31:14]
LeBron James
You know, so it's like what do you do like with Trae Young? It's like you don't really want Capella to get behind the defense. Cause that's, that's his niche. He blocks shots. And on the other hand, he creates havoc by getting a good screen. Using his speed to either really sometimes don't even screen because he know the big is gonna be up. So I'm gonna slip behind the defense, you know, so it's like. That is the difficult challenge for coaches.
- [31:39]
JJ Redick
Here's another interesting thing that I found.
- [31:41]
LeBron James
You need the other pin. Are you gonna. You gonna hear or you gonna.
- [31:44]
JJ Redick
I'm go here.
- [31:45]
LeBron James
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:46]
JJ Redick
Here's another interesting thing I found about threes. So let's call 18 to 24 seconds on the shot clock. Let's call that early shot clock.
- [31:55]
Guest Speaker
Okay.
- [31:56]
JJ Redick
First six seconds of the shot clock. In 2014, 2015, the average team for the season took 322 total threes in the first six seconds of the shot clock.
- [32:10]
LeBron James
Okay. What is this? You said 13, 14.
- [32:11]
JJ Redick
Yeah, 14, 15.
- [32:13]
LeBron James
14, 15.
- [32:13]
JJ Redick
Five teams attempted below 200 total threes for the season in the first six seconds of the shot clock.
- [32:18]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [32:20]
JJ Redick
Last season's data, that number was up by 100 total threes. Basically. 420 total threes.
- [32:28]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [32:29]
JJ Redick
Half the league attempted 400 or more.
- [32:31]
Podcast Host
Total threes in the first six seconds.
- [32:32]
JJ Redick
Of the shot clock. That's the other thing that has changed the most is when you get a defensive stop. And I don't care where the fuck you are on the court, when you get this stop, where are people running?
- [32:46]
LeBron James
Yeah, run wide. That's all you hear.
- [32:48]
JJ Redick
Run wide. Run wide to the three point line.
- [32:50]
LeBron James
That's it.
- [32:51]
JJ Redick
Okay. Right. So these early, early shot clock threes, you know what the official average effective field goal percentage on that is? Same thing, 55%.
- [33:02]
LeBron James
Really?
- [33:03]
JJ Redick
It's a good shot.
- [33:06]
LeBron James
It's a good Shot. I can't wrap my head around it. Am I too old school? I want to say old school, but am I too still, like, in my ways of.
- [33:16]
JJ Redick
Okay, hold on a second. Hold on. I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you something here.
- [33:19]
LeBron James
We'll pass shots.
- [33:19]
JJ Redick
I'm gonna give you something there, though. I'm gonna give you something. You got guys running wide.
- [33:26]
LeBron James
Correct.
- [33:26]
JJ Redick
Running. Running the corner. This is you with the ball.
- [33:30]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [33:30]
JJ Redick
This is Giannis with the ball.
- [33:32]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [33:32]
JJ Redick
This is John Morant with the ball.
- [33:35]
LeBron James
Space. What does that give you so much space? Early. Early attacks.
- [33:40]
JJ Redick
There's a reason that you are averaging, like, 10 fast break points a day.
- [33:44]
LeBron James
Early attacks.
- [33:44]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [33:45]
LeBron James
Somebody told me I was second at fast break points the other day.
- [33:47]
Guest Speaker
Who?
- [33:47]
LeBron James
Who did we just play? Oh, no, it was. It was Toronto.
- [33:51]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [33:51]
LeBron James
One of their players said, man, what the hell are you doing? How are you second? Because they. I think they played the night before, so they had a walk through on their court, and then as soon as the court opened, I get on the court and one of the players like, how the hell are you second? And fast break points.
- [34:05]
JJ Redick
It's because this is where DLO's running, dude. And this is where Austin's running.
- [34:08]
LeBron James
Well, DLO like to stop a little.
- [34:10]
JJ Redick
He's like.
- [34:11]
LeBron James
He likes.
- [34:11]
JJ Redick
He's like a breakout.
- [34:13]
LeBron James
Yeah, he loves the break, but definitely rui, Arkansas. Yeah. Tp. They definitely get into the corners.
- [34:20]
Podcast Host
So the volume of threes.
- [34:22]
JJ Redick
Yeah, the volume of threes. Because we're talking about not all threes are created equal, but in some ways, the types of threes that offenses are generating are created equal. They have essentially the same value. If we're looking at it through analytics, these type of threes have the same value. The last one I want to get into before we get into just some ways to generate threes for catch and shoot. Guys, the other one, and I don't have the data in front of me right now, but I looked it up in January, is. We've seen it. James Harden, ISO, Luca and ISO, Kyrie and ISO. Right. The step back three, the individual create, Steph Curry, the individually created step back three, going back to the same tracking era, last 10 years. Roughly 33% is the average value or average shooting percentage of a step back.
- [35:22]
Podcast Host
Three 10 years ago.
- [35:23]
JJ Redick
Now it's a little over 35%. So it's gone up 2 percentage points and the volume has gone up. Guys are able and willing. Jayson Tatum, they're able and willing to take that shot not only more frequently, but at A higher clip. I'm trying to explain here why offenses are good.
- [35:46]
LeBron James
Offenses are good and very hard.
- [35:48]
JJ Redick
This shot is worth 1.5 more than this shot. If you can make it.
- [35:57]
LeBron James
If you can make it.
- [35:58]
JJ Redick
If you can make it.
- [35:59]
LeBron James
So what happens when?
- [36:01]
Guest Speaker
No.
- [36:02]
JJ Redick
The value of this versus the value of this versus the value of this.
- [36:06]
LeBron James
So what happens when?
- [36:09]
JJ Redick
Why do you think you got to.
- [36:10]
LeBron James
Put off I. E? Houston Rockets missed 25 or 28 straight threes.
- [36:16]
JJ Redick
Have you seen it happen since?
- [36:19]
LeBron James
I have not. I have not. How many did they miss in the game?
- [36:23]
JJ Redick
27.
- [36:23]
LeBron James
27 straight threes?
- [36:25]
JJ Redick
27.
- [36:26]
LeBron James
And they kept shooting them.
- [36:27]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [36:31]
LeBron James
It's not like all of them was only three point shooters. It's not like they have fucking five Craig Hodges on their team or five Steve Kerrs on the floor where that's all they can do is shoot threes. They had guys that can. Eric Gordon, you can get into the paint. James Harden, you can get into the paint.
- [36:48]
JJ Redick
But you're making a valid point.
- [36:50]
LeBron James
But why?
- [36:51]
JJ Redick
You're making a valid point. And I want to acknowledge your point. You still have to be a basketball player.
- [36:56]
Guest Speaker
Thank you.
- [36:57]
JJ Redick
You still have to read the game.
- [36:58]
LeBron James
That's all I ask.
- [36:59]
JJ Redick
You still have to understand.
- [37:00]
LeBron James
That's all I ask.
- [37:01]
JJ Redick
Time and score.
- [37:03]
LeBron James
So there's a time and place where analytics.
- [37:07]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [37:08]
LeBron James
Should be like, get the fuck out.
- [37:09]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [37:10]
LeBron James
Okay.
- [37:11]
JJ Redick
There was a coach that told me this year, he's like, you know, he talks all the time about, like, managing the game and he's. He's over there and he's looking at the, at the box score during timeouts, and he's looking at how many threes have we made and attempted versus how many threes the other team has made and attempted. What is their star player shooting from? 2? What is the time and score? Do I need to double? All of these things are being like, equated or calculated in real time. So there is some game management involved. It's not just like.
- [37:45]
LeBron James
So you tell them I need to shoot more threes. Is that what you're telling me?
- [37:48]
JJ Redick
You're doing fine. You're doing fine. But I would say this, LeBron, you guys, your offense for the first part of the season was not a good offense.
- [37:59]
LeBron James
No, we couldn't sue.
- [38:00]
JJ Redick
The second you started making threes, you became a top five or six offense.
- [38:05]
LeBron James
But we always said, like, the. The law of averages is going to even itself out. The first month and a half, two months, we couldn't hit the side of a fucking cow's ass from three Point we couldn't. So, you know, but like you just said, we're 29th and 3 points attempted, but people are complaining while we're top 5 in free throw attempts. Cause that's what we do.
- [38:25]
JJ Redick
I think there's. There's every team you have to coach differently. Every team based on personnel.
- [38:30]
LeBron James
For sure. Absolutely.
- [38:32]
JJ Redick
The fact that all of a sudden DLO became a high volume, high efficiency, three point shooter halfway through a season started back in January.
- [38:40]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [38:42]
JJ Redick
That adds value to the offense.
- [38:43]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure.
- [38:44]
JJ Redick
Your free throw thing, by the way, I'm not going to get into the discourse right now about the foul thing, but there are certain teams that foul more than others, and there are certain teams that put pressure on the rim more than others.
- [38:53]
LeBron James
For sure. For sure.
- [38:54]
JJ Redick
And if you can not foul and you can get to the free throw line, that creates an advantage in the same way that making and taking more threes versus making and taking less threes creates an advantage.
- [39:10]
LeBron James
Well, I mean, Mike D'Antoni was onto something. He knew before this shit even got cracking like it is now.
- [39:15]
JJ Redick
Oh, give Daryl more. He gives Darrell some credit. I went in.
- [39:18]
LeBron James
You give Darryl some credit.
- [39:19]
JJ Redick
I went in for a shoot around one year. This was like early, early stuff, right? And like, this is public, so, like, this is not like. But I just remember going in, do a shoot around one year, and for some reason. Oh, I know what it was. Keith. Keith let me use the cold tub in their locker room after shoot around, and I go in and I walk by the locker room and they had like led boards above their locker with like their true shooting percentage, like all that shit. And I was like, oh, man. Just a constant reminder of whether or not you suck or whether you're good.
- [39:52]
LeBron James
That's amazing. Get your ass on the practice court right now. Get some shots up.
- [39:57]
JJ Redick
All right.
- [39:58]
LeBron James
That's funny.
- [39:59]
Guest Speaker
That's good.
- [40:00]
JJ Redick
Last type. Last type of three. We've talked about getting two on the ball, four on three. A lot of times that creates swing. Swing.
- [40:06]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [40:07]
JJ Redick
Get in the paint, Draymond kicks it out. Those are catch and shoot threes. Stand still. Catch and shoot threes. I want to talk about a different type of catch and shoot threes. And that is the movement. Catch and shoot three. Let's hypothetically say I'm on your team.
- [40:22]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [40:23]
JJ Redick
And I'm four for five from three. It's the second quarter, under three minute timeout. We've got a nine point lead trying to turn into double figures. Our ball. You gotta drop a ATO for me.
- [40:38]
LeBron James
This is the ato.
- [40:39]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [40:39]
LeBron James
And we have. We're a pretty good team. I'm on your team.
- [40:41]
JJ Redick
Yes.
- [40:42]
LeBron James
Okay.
- [40:42]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [40:44]
LeBron James
Okay.
- [40:45]
JJ Redick
And we have a good screening five man.
- [40:46]
LeBron James
We have a good screening five man. Okay, perfect. You wanna draw it up?
- [40:49]
JJ Redick
Yeah, sure.
- [40:50]
LeBron James
Okay, let's put. I'll be here.
- [40:55]
Guest Speaker
All right. Yep.
- [40:56]
LeBron James
We'll put the five men here.
- [40:58]
JJ Redick
Okay.
- [41:00]
LeBron James
You know what? No, I'm gonna start over. I'm gonna put you here, J.J. to start.
- [41:03]
JJ Redick
All right.
- [41:04]
LeBron James
I'll put the five men here. Same size as the ball's being taken out of.
- [41:07]
JJ Redick
Okay.
- [41:08]
LeBron James
So that's the one or the two.
- [41:09]
Guest Speaker
All right.
- [41:09]
LeBron James
And then two men is right here.
- [41:11]
JJ Redick
Well, I'm the two man.
- [41:12]
LeBron James
Okay. So put the three there.
- [41:13]
JJ Redick
Three S there.
- [41:14]
LeBron James
All right, so on the slap of the ball, simultaneously, JJ, you're gonna come to the ball. You're four for five, right?
- [41:22]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [41:23]
LeBron James
Okay. So X5 or the five men are gonna screen you bringing to the ball.
- [41:27]
JJ Redick
Okay.
- [41:27]
LeBron James
At the same time, the three man's gonna set a cross screen for me. Go underneath.
- [41:32]
JJ Redick
Okay.
- [41:33]
Guest Speaker
All right.
- [41:34]
LeBron James
As soon as that happened, the one is gonna throw it over the top to meet. I have to catch it over the top. And as soon as I catch it over the top, because your man is so afraid of you coming towards the ball. What is the first thing a defender does when a ball turns his head? Turns his freaking head. As soon as that happened. Rescreen for you, Jay.
- [41:53]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [41:54]
JJ Redick
Victory.
- [41:55]
LeBron James
Victory. We're gonna get you a great victory.
- [41:57]
JJ Redick
No, Brad Stevens. Victory.
- [41:58]
LeBron James
This caught.
- [41:59]
JJ Redick
This is.
- [41:59]
LeBron James
Yeah, I've run it before, too.
- [42:01]
JJ Redick
Who'd you run it with? Do you remember who the shooter was?
- [42:04]
LeBron James
I ran it for. Oh, Danny Green before. Yes, yes.
- [42:08]
JJ Redick
Because Kerr ran it for Clay.
- [42:09]
Podcast Host
For a game winner.
- [42:10]
JJ Redick
I can't remember if it was last year or this year.
- [42:12]
LeBron James
Yeah, I like that one.
- [42:14]
JJ Redick
This is a great one.
- [42:15]
LeBron James
I have another one.
- [42:15]
JJ Redick
Chris Finch. Chris Finch loves this one. I don't know that he's run it, but he showed me this when I was with him in New Orleans.
- [42:22]
LeBron James
You take the ball out now five, me four and the three.
- [42:35]
JJ Redick
Okay, I'm slammed. One.
- [42:36]
LeBron James
At the slop of the ball, pin down for me.
- [42:38]
JJ Redick
Okay.
- [42:39]
LeBron James
I catch it. As soon as that happened, I want the four to work his way underneath and just stay there. Look like a. Just look very. Like he don't know what the hell's going on. Obviously, you already know what's about to happen.
- [42:51]
JJ Redick
I know what's gonna happen.
- [42:53]
LeBron James
I bring the ball across, this guy x3 slips it.
- [42:56]
Podcast Host
Go screen.
- [42:56]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [42:57]
LeBron James
I take off all the way around. Here comes the handle.
- [42:59]
Podcast Host
Let me get everybody set up.
- [43:00]
LeBron James
Yes, sir. Get everybody set up. Yep, JJ's there. The four has worked his way underneath. Yep, I've taken off.
- [43:11]
Podcast Host
Three's here.
- [43:12]
LeBron James
Yep, three's there. I'm taking off at the same time. He turns around. Your guy's paying attention to the damn ball. Let me set a nice hammer for you. I wish it was flipped so you can see.
- [43:21]
JJ Redick
You know what's funny?
- [43:21]
LeBron James
Go left right here.
- [43:23]
JJ Redick
When I ran hammer action. I like shooting this way.
- [43:25]
LeBron James
Really?
- [43:26]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [43:27]
LeBron James
Why?
- [43:27]
JJ Redick
I'm not sure. I'm dead serious, bro. I'm not sure. Well, we've. Yeah, we've already liked the defense on this side.
- [43:36]
LeBron James
I don't get no reason. You got no leg kick on this one, though. On this side. You didn't get a leg kick on this side.
- [43:40]
JJ Redick
You know what I'm thinking about? I think one of the reasons. One of the reasons. Those are two, by the way, the five. The five is you drove would dive towards the rim. I didn't draw the 5. That's what the 5 was. What's interesting when you think about this. So if you remember San Antonio, they would post Boris Diao right here.
- [44:02]
LeBron James
Correct.
- [44:03]
JJ Redick
And he would legitimately drive and jump out of bounds.
- [44:08]
LeBron James
Yes, you do it.
- [44:09]
JJ Redick
And they would do it with Manu, too, but Manu would do it over here because he's left handed. So I think that's one of the reasons I always ran it this way.
- [44:16]
LeBron James
When we run it, I think that we stole that from San Antonio at one point. I don't remember what year it was, but Mike Dunleavy was on our team. It's one of my. I think it's one of my. One of my greatest assists I've ever had. And we ran a hammer action for Mike Dunleavy versus Orlando. I believe it was at home in Cleveland. And I wrapped it around based on.
- [44:38]
JJ Redick
I remember that.
- [44:38]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [44:38]
LeBron James
For Dunleavy to hit a three, it was kind of, you know, it's pretty cool.
- [44:42]
JJ Redick
I like that Hammer action.
- [44:44]
LeBron James
Hammer action.
- [44:44]
Podcast Host
Hammer action.
- [44:45]
LeBron James
Yes.
- [44:46]
JJ Redick
You see it all the time. Endgame. And a lot of times teams will run it.
- [44:51]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [44:54]
Podcast Host
Matter of fact.
- [44:57]
LeBron James
Step up first.
- [44:58]
Podcast Host
I'm gonna.
- [44:59]
JJ Redick
I'm gonna actually just kind of discombobulate things. But teams will run it. We'll set a step up or whatever.
- [45:05]
Podcast Host
Turn the corner.
- [45:06]
JJ Redick
Let's say this guy cuts the middle five, man. Peels out, times it.
- [45:10]
LeBron James
Of course.
- [45:11]
JJ Redick
Yep. And then I. I get the. The hammer action.
- [45:14]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [45:15]
JJ Redick
It's that weak side. I Don't even know how to describe the screen. Cause it's not really a back screen. It's a hammer screen. I guess it's.
- [45:24]
LeBron James
When I was in Cleveland. We will have the guy that we wanted to catch the ball on the hammer screen. He would take it out.
- [45:32]
JJ Redick
Yep.
- [45:33]
LeBron James
So. And then we would have the other shooter, you know, in this angle. So they would actually. He would actually slip this screen. And the shooter will go here. And my first look is the shooter here. And if he's not open, then I have the other shooter because the five is trailing. He's gonna clean that up for the other shooter coming all the way around. So I will look at the hammer action. If he's not there, you do the whole fundamental.
- [45:59]
JJ Redick
No, I know exactly what you're saying. The other thing that happens here. So let's say this is you driving for the hammer action.
- [46:05]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [46:07]
JJ Redick
Let's just say it's the one that you played this little pistol 21 action with. And I've taken the ball out and come off here. The other shooter's right here. So what teams will do as this screen happens, let's say the five man, you know, after he sets the hammer, he comes and. He comes and gets up here to set the second one. What teams will do sometimes is top lock this. This slot cut actually ends up being open. Or sometimes, depending on where the five or the four sets this hammer screen. Right. He just. It's a quick slip to the basket. So teams, if they know they're switching or they know, hey, they got their Raider up for hammer, they will actually. This could be the first option, this slip.
- [46:47]
LeBron James
And I'll even take it even further, what you're saying. You're down three if you get a guy that slips to the rim. I guarantee, even if the coach has said in the timeout, no threes, if you get one guy to slip to the rim, there will be one guy that will have a reaction. You get one guy, you throw the ball to him, slip into the rim. There's gonna be one defender, X1 or 5 that will relax. And you just use that as a. Oh, I got you. Just to kick out for a three.
- [47:21]
JJ Redick
Right.
- [47:22]
LeBron James
When you've told everybody in the timeout, everybody, stay the fuck home. We're up three if they get a two. Okay.
- [47:27]
JJ Redick
All right. It's the reaction of watching the ball.
- [47:29]
LeBron James
That is turn your head.
- [47:31]
JJ Redick
He made the pass.
- [47:32]
LeBron James
Exactly.
- [47:33]
JJ Redick
All right, here's another one. I actually thought you were gonna draw this one up, but it's fine. I'll get to Paul Georgia in a second. You're taking it out.
- [47:45]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [47:45]
JJ Redick
Five, man. Let's say this is the three, this.
- [47:49]
LeBron James
Is the four, and this is me, your son's team. They're running this type of shit already.
- [47:57]
JJ Redick
Yeah. Oh, I'm going to drop one of my favorite plays in a second and we run this.
- [48:02]
LeBron James
Literally.
- [48:03]
JJ Redick
So slap of the ball, four, man. He's gone.
- [48:06]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [48:06]
LeBron James
He's out.
- [48:07]
JJ Redick
He's gone over here.
- [48:08]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [48:08]
Podcast Host
He empties out.
- [48:09]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [48:09]
JJ Redick
Okay. Ball goes into five passes to three.
- [48:15]
LeBron James
Is this. What the fuck?
- [48:16]
JJ Redick
Is that what you call it?
- [48:18]
LeBron James
Rip screens that are pinned out?
- [48:19]
JJ Redick
Yeah, I call it Indiana.
- [48:21]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [48:21]
JJ Redick
After Paul George.
- [48:22]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [48:23]
LeBron James
I think Phil Jackson, those guys called it. What the fuck?
- [48:25]
JJ Redick
I'm being guarded BY Probably a 6, 4 guy.
- [48:28]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [48:29]
JJ Redick
Probably not the second best defender. You're getting guarded by, you know, whoever. So I'm going to set this rip screen right here.
- [48:36]
LeBron James
Yes.
- [48:37]
JJ Redick
They don't want to switch.
- [48:38]
LeBron James
Nope.
- [48:39]
JJ Redick
So potentially, you get a lob, layup, dunk, whatever.
- [48:41]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [48:42]
JJ Redick
Your guy going to help as soon as that happens?
- [48:44]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [48:45]
LeBron James
Yeah, I come off. I think Phil and those guys caught it with the. You call it Indiana?
- [48:48]
JJ Redick
I called it Indiana.
- [48:49]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [48:49]
JJ Redick
Brett Brown used to run this for me, and I. You know what's weird? I would. I would actually be in both positions. So let's say this is Robert Covington and this is Joel. So when the. When the ball would go over there, I would act like Cuv would come try to set this rip screen. I would act like I would come off and just push off and come off.
- [49:10]
LeBron James
Joe, I'm glad you said push off, too. That was. That's very key to. To the viewers.
- [49:13]
JJ Redick
It is definitely.
- [49:14]
LeBron James
It is very key.
- [49:14]
JJ Redick
The other thing that happens.
- [49:16]
LeBron James
What about clipper down?
- [49:18]
JJ Redick
Oh, we're gonna get to that in a second. The other thing that's gonna happen, let's say that's. Let's say I'm just. I'm still playing somehow. So I come and what do I do? I slip out of there. Right. I act like I'm gonna set the rip screen, slip out of there. I get it that way. I think. Don't quote me on this. The reason I call it Indiana is cause of Brett Brown. But I think the reason Brett Brown calls it Indiana is because of Paul George.
- [49:43]
LeBron James
Really.
- [49:44]
JJ Redick
I was at a Clippers game with my kids over spring break. They were playing the Sixers, and he took it out and they ran it, and I was like, oh, Paul George took it out Indiana.
- [49:55]
LeBron James
And he faked going.
- [49:56]
JJ Redick
He made a Three at the top of the key.
- [49:57]
LeBron James
He faked like he was gonna go to the rip screen and just bounce back.
- [50:00]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [50:00]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [50:01]
JJ Redick
It's a great play. Yeah, it's a great play. All right, here's one for you. So this is CP right here.
- [50:11]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [50:12]
Podcast Host
This is Clay, and this is Trace Jackson Davis.
- [50:18]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [50:19]
JJ Redick
All right, so if CP comes off of Clay and comes off of Trace Jackson Davis, what is going to happen?
- [50:25]
Guest Speaker
A re.
- [50:26]
LeBron James
Screen for Clay.
- [50:26]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [50:27]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [50:27]
JJ Redick
Oklahoma.
- [50:28]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [50:28]
LeBron James
Oklahoma.
- [50:29]
JJ Redick
Oklahoma small or Oklahoma small? I call it both things.
- [50:31]
LeBron James
Yes. It's okay.
- [50:32]
JJ Redick
I call it both things.
- [50:33]
LeBron James
We're talking the same language. Yes, I.
- [50:36]
JJ Redick
My assumption here also is that we call it Oklahoma because of Kevin Durant.
- [50:40]
LeBron James
Really?
- [50:42]
JJ Redick
I assume so. I could be wrong on that.
- [50:45]
LeBron James
I mean, there's no other reason to call it Oklahoma. It's not like. I mean, they didn't have a team.
- [50:51]
JJ Redick
There before, you know, we're not going to use the word hate. We're not going to use the word hate today. We're not going to use the hate you and I dislike. And as an offensive player in this position, because I ran this a ton in New Orleans, and we'd have variants of this, which in with the Clippers, that I'll get to in a second. But if you're. If you're guarding Klay Thompson in this spot.
- [51:14]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [51:15]
LeBron James
And you're not switching, and you're.
- [51:17]
JJ Redick
Well, hold on. You can do whatever you want. Let's say you. Let's say you do switch it. Like, why are you not getting to a top block? It's 20, 24. This is. If Klay Thompson sets a pick, he's gonna get another pick. Why are you not top? It drives me crazy.
- [51:38]
LeBron James
Cause they don't watch basketball. It's that simple. I've realized that they only watch highlights and they don't watch basketball. If Klay is underneath the charge block, are you thinking he's gonna stay down there?
- [51:57]
JJ Redick
End of every quarter? End of every quarter.
- [52:02]
Guest Speaker
Dude.
- [52:05]
JJ Redick
What'S gonna happen right here as CP comes off this screen pen in.
- [52:10]
LeBron James
Why would nobody stay on this side and force his ass the other way?
- [52:14]
JJ Redick
I don't know. I'm not. Sorry, Clay. I'm not trying to give away all the secrets, but it is on the scouting report and it is on film.
- [52:19]
LeBron James
So it's on the scouting report. It's on.
- [52:21]
JJ Redick
It's worked for 10 years.
- [52:22]
LeBron James
So, like, it's on, like, the championship DVD that comes out after the season when you win it. Like, they don't watch basketball.
- [52:30]
JJ Redick
All right, so, Markin and both Clay, they. They do this one a lot, too, so.
- [52:34]
Guest Speaker
Who?
- [52:35]
LeBron James
Laurie Lowry. Markin, one of my favorites.
- [52:38]
JJ Redick
He's unbelievable.
- [52:39]
LeBron James
He's been a LeBron supporter for a long time. He wears my shoes.
- [52:41]
JJ Redick
Does he really?
- [52:42]
LeBron James
Yeah, until this year. I think Nike came out with a new shoe, and then they. We got some talks to do out there in the Nike world, but I love that guy. He's. He's so good.
- [52:51]
JJ Redick
We'll run it with Clay. First we're going to say this is Looney.
- [52:56]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [52:56]
JJ Redick
And this is Steph.
- [52:57]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [52:58]
JJ Redick
So you know what? I'll go with how they're playing now. This is Draymond. So this is essentially same sort of idea. Oklahoma. But Klay Thompson's the second screener.
- [53:13]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [53:14]
JJ Redick
So as. As Steph comes off this screen and comes to Clay, he slips.
- [53:20]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [53:20]
JJ Redick
And Draymond or Kavan either flares or they dive.
- [53:24]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [53:25]
JJ Redick
And he's empty side.
- [53:27]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [53:28]
JJ Redick
All the room in the world.
- [53:29]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [53:29]
JJ Redick
Steph brings it over here. Just a little skip pass, and he.
- [53:32]
LeBron James
Doesn'T have the three. Draymond dives to the post, split, Throw it to the post, and we go back to split, post, split pulse.
- [53:40]
JJ Redick
Markkanen will also be in this position. So this is JC John Collins, and let's say this is Keonte George. Marketing will be here, and he'll do the same thing. He'll slip, get to space.
- [53:50]
LeBron James
And that's. And that's very. And that's very difficult because you got JC as the first screener setting a flare for marketing that's getting guarded by X4 or 5. We already established that Biggs cannot navigate screens. It's not their job. But they need to learn to go.
- [54:06]
JJ Redick
This was. This was a favorite one of mine. So this is a slight variation. I think this is called Finland.
- [54:13]
Guest Speaker
Okay.
- [54:14]
LeBron James
Because why.
- [54:15]
JJ Redick
Maybe because of. Because of marketing. I don't know. But in my edit, it was called Finland, and I was like, has to.
- [54:24]
LeBron James
Only be because of marketing. That's it.
- [54:27]
JJ Redick
I didn't call it Finland.
- [54:29]
LeBron James
Oh, man.
- [54:30]
JJ Redick
This is bg.
- [54:31]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [54:31]
JJ Redick
We're going to say this is. This is Matt Barnes or Luke and Bamuta. This is dj.
- [54:36]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [54:37]
JJ Redick
This is cp. So again, it's the same thing. It's a. It's a double drag. Right. But as that double drag happens.
- [54:43]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [54:43]
LeBron James
You send the flare. I send a rip screen for the lob for bg.
- [54:47]
JJ Redick
And then DJ turns around, cleans me up.
- [54:49]
Guest Speaker
Yep, yep.
- [54:50]
JJ Redick
Right. We got a lot of action out of that.
- [54:52]
LeBron James
Peja. Kind of a version of Peja.
- [54:55]
JJ Redick
You know, is that. Oh, you call it Peja?
- [54:56]
LeBron James
Yeah, because of Peja Sojakovic.
- [54:57]
JJ Redick
I figured.
- [54:59]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [55:00]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [55:00]
LeBron James
Because I believe he used to run that same set. Rip C. Webb to the post and then Vladia come and. Or Brad Miller or, you know, whatever.
- [55:09]
JJ Redick
All right.
- [55:10]
LeBron James
Basic stuff, but we talking basic stuff?
- [55:13]
JJ Redick
No.
- [55:15]
LeBron James
Yeah, we can start. Let's stay.
- [55:16]
JJ Redick
No, I'm not saying that stuff's all basic, but. No, it's not the most basic way to get. Let's say it's Markkanen over here in the corner. The most basic way, obviously, is just a pin away.
- [55:30]
LeBron James
This is a pin away for sure, right?
- [55:31]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [55:32]
JJ Redick
So the guards over here, one's over here, just a pin away. And I think teams and their defense varies so much. Now, like when I played, let's say, and this was DJ and CP would give him this action, the away action.
- [55:55]
LeBron James
Go get it.
- [55:56]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [55:57]
JJ Redick
Two things would happen. I would either get top locked or if they were on my outside shoulder, they would lock and trail as this pin away happened, and I would curl. Right. It's pretty simple stuff. What happens now, though, I think a lot of teams do is the screen to screen the guys screening. It's just positionally, it's different.
- [56:24]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [56:25]
JJ Redick
So this could be Lori Markkanen and this could be Jordan Clarkson.
- [56:30]
LeBron James
Small right.
- [56:32]
JJ Redick
The other day this was. I think it was Jaylen Brown. This was against the Pelicans. And this was Kristaps. And Valentunas was in the middle of paint.
- [56:43]
LeBron James
They set a flare for him and.
- [56:45]
JJ Redick
Kristaps went and they top locked and JB just sent a flare. Just screened in screen. He got a wide open three.
- [56:50]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [56:51]
JJ Redick
So I think. I think the away stuff, teams don't run it as like, what'd you guys do for Korver when you had him in Cleveland?
- [56:58]
LeBron James
A lot of that.
- [56:59]
JJ Redick
A lot of away.
- [56:59]
LeBron James
Yep, a lot of away. Early in transition. Go get him. You know, you bring it down one side. If the big is trailing, go get him. Early wides.
- [57:06]
JJ Redick
Do you remember in Atlanta with that team, how high they would set those away screens?
- [57:13]
LeBron James
Yeah, he wouldn't even cross half court. They was already going to get him.
- [57:17]
JJ Redick
Because what happens, like I'm guarding Kyle Korver and scatter report rule, you lock.
- [57:26]
LeBron James
Him over the top for the top. All the way at half fucking corner. Right, right. They don't want you to shoot it.
- [57:31]
JJ Redick
And so they.
- [57:32]
LeBron James
They would literally set these picks at an angle too. Not just straight across, because the guy can.
- [57:37]
JJ Redick
No, no, no. They'd come down this angle right here. This high in transition.
- [57:42]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [57:43]
JJ Redick
It was insane.
- [57:44]
LeBron James
It was insane. That's why they had like four all Stars that year. It was insane.
- [57:49]
JJ Redick
Norm Powell, by the way, here's another example. Norm Powell, stagger away.
- [57:53]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [57:54]
JJ Redick
That's an easy one.
- [57:54]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [57:55]
JJ Redick
Stagger away. Just means there's two.
- [57:57]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [57:57]
JJ Redick
Two screens. Norm Powell. Get that. Houston would run that for Eric Gordon. That's how he got a lot of his threes off the move. And then of course, which again, I hate to use Larry Malkin again, but the Jazz are a great example of this. Let's say this is Clarkson and this is John Collins. You use the shooter as the first screener.
- [58:21]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [58:22]
JJ Redick
He goes to pin.
- [58:23]
LeBron James
He curls.
- [58:24]
JJ Redick
He curls.
- [58:25]
LeBron James
And then he goes.
- [58:26]
JJ Redick
And then he goes.
- [58:26]
LeBron James
Clean them up.
- [58:31]
JJ Redick
I say all this, by the way. I say all this because I went on a podcast a couple weeks ago and I got. I don't want to say accused, but I was referred to as a catch and shoot player. I was referred to as a catch and shoot player. And when I think of catch and shoot players, I think of standstill guys. But I guess the movement part, all of this action, all of this stuff. And as teams are getting smarter, the Will Hardys of the world, the Joe Mazzulla's of the world, as they're getting smarter about how teams are matching up when and where to screen, it just makes it harder to guard off of all of these off ball actions.
- [59:22]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [59:23]
LeBron James
And you're dealing with the best players in the world, the greatest players in the world. And if you happen to get not only the greatest talent in the world on your team, if you're able to get some guys that have some IQ about it as well, it unlocks even more.
- [59:39]
JJ Redick
We got one more and then we'll sort of move on. Cause you brought it up earlier, this was my favorite play that I've ever had ran for me.
- [59:48]
LeBron James
Yeah. Clipper down. Yeah, for sure.
- [59:50]
JJ Redick
Fifteen down.
- [59:51]
LeBron James
That's what y'all called. We called it Clipper down in Cleveland. We stole it.
- [59:54]
JJ Redick
After me. Yeah, after us. After us.
- [59:57]
LeBron James
After you. It was David the J.R. smith.
- [60:01]
JJ Redick
So this is just 15, which is a 15 pick and roll between CP and DeAndre Jordan.
- [60:06]
LeBron James
Yeah. Which is fluff.
- [60:07]
JJ Redick
Which is fluff. Doesn't mean anything. CP would just dribble out. DJ would slip the screen. This guy in a normal single side pick and roll would be responsible.
- [60:16]
LeBron James
Off the body.
- [60:16]
JJ Redick
He's off the body because the ball's.
- [60:18]
LeBron James
Going away from him.
- [60:19]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [60:19]
JJ Redick
It's like the teaching. You just take advantage of the teaching as the ball goes away from you, you get off the body.
- [60:24]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [60:24]
JJ Redick
All right, he's off the body. I come around. Yeah.
- [60:27]
LeBron James
I mean, those years, you led the league in first. First quarter scoring.
- [60:31]
JJ Redick
We ran a lot of that.
- [60:32]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [60:32]
LeBron James
First quarter scoring is getting fucking 9 and 12 points this quarter.
- [60:35]
JJ Redick
You know what's. What's crazy about that play was I. I joined the Clippers in 1314. Yeah, 1314. I played, I think, the first 17 games. And Marcus Cousins, I went up for offensive rebound. I was trying to out. Not gonna lie, I was trying to catch one off the rim. This is when I was still a little bouncy. Antwon Jameson shot a little like. You know how. Remember Antwon Jameson?
- [61:01]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
- [61:02]
JJ Redick
Where he would, like, elongate. So he shot one of those shots off the backboard. And I was in the left. I was in the left corner. I was like, oh, I'm gonna time this.
- [61:09]
LeBron James
Oh, this?
- [61:09]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [61:10]
Podcast Host
So I kinda.
- [61:11]
JJ Redick
I kind of jumped. And DeMarcus, you know, he's a big guy. I'm not. He just kind of gave me a little forearm shiver in the air. So anyways, I fell and I broke a bone in my wrist and tore a ligament. And so my second game back, we play the Mavs, and we're down, like, 17 points with four minutes to go. And we go, we make a comeback, and we cut it to, I think, three, and we call an ATO. And it was. BG was in the game. Cause we didn't want DJ to get fouled on offense. So BG was the five, and we ran 15 down for the first time. End of game. Monte, of course, you know, he's off the ball. I curled around, hit three, and then it just became a staple of our offensive system. But it all came out of the game.
- [62:02]
LeBron James
It all came out. Wow.
- [62:04]
JJ Redick
It wasn't like we practiced it and practiced. We just ran it as an ATO one time. It came about. The coolest thing about that, I always tell people this. CP And DJ and me, it was all a read. We never called 15 down unless it was against, like, the Philadelphia 76ers at the time. No, I mean, that makes sense. If I'm playing against you or I'm playing against Rondo or somebody, and we call 15 down.
- [62:32]
LeBron James
Yeah, we on top of that.
- [62:34]
JJ Redick
No.
- [62:34]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [62:34]
LeBron James
Yeah, we're on top of that. Right?
- [62:35]
JJ Redick
So if I run to the left corner and I see CP Call DJ Up. I'm just waiting.
- [62:41]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [62:42]
JJ Redick
DJ might roll.
- [62:43]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [62:43]
JJ Redick
DJ Might come do the. The downstream. But it was all a read.
- [62:47]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [62:47]
LeBron James
You're just sitting there.
- [62:48]
JJ Redick
It was all a read.
- [62:49]
Guest Speaker
Yep.
- [62:49]
JJ Redick
We never. We never would call it. It's pretty.
- [62:52]
LeBron James
It was pretty interesting. I like that.
- [62:58]
JJ Redick
Hey, guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. Thank you.
- [63:06]
LeBron James
It.