Kevin Durant: Part 2 (What Happened in Brooklyn)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind the Game – Episode: Kevin Durant: Part 2 (What Happened in Brooklyn)
Release Date: July 8, 2025
Hosted by: UNINTERRUPTED | Wondery
Description: Presented by Uninterrupted and Wondery, Mind The Game with LeBron James and Steve Nash continues its mission by dissecting basketball's X’s and O’s, highlighting the work behind NBA greatness, and celebrating the beautiful game.

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1. Evolution of the NBA Game

The episode opens with a deep dive into how the NBA has transformed over the years. LeBron James reflects on the rapid changes since his entry into the league, contrasting the modern game with the styles prevalent during Kevin Durant's last year in Brooklyn.

Notable Quote:
LeBron James (00:18): "It's just crazy how fast the game has changed since I came into the league."

2. Defensive Strategies: Zone vs. Man-to-Man

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the evolution of defensive strategies. LeBron and Kevin highlight the increasing use of mixed defenses, such as alternating between zone and man-to-man schemes within the same game or even quarter.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (01:07): "They mixing up defense."
Kevin Durant (02:08): "They might not be in zone, but they're sitting in the lane."

3. Impact of Modern Coaching on Team Play

Chris Paul joins the conversation to emphasize how creative defensive coaching forces teams to enhance their offensive play. The trio discusses how adaptability in coaching, exemplified by strategies like those employed by Houston's Eme Udoka, keeps teams vigilant and responsive.

Notable Quotes:
Chris Paul (01:48): "They mixing up defense."
LeBron James (05:33): "Great feel for, you know, chaos, you..."

4. Individual Roles and Team Dynamics

The conversation shifts to individual player roles, particularly focusing on the Oklahoma City (OKC) Thunder's roster. Kevin Durant praises the versatility of players like Hartenstein, who serves as a hub in the offense, allowing stars like Shai and Jalen to thrive without isolation.

Notable Quotes:
Kevin Durant (03:08): "They protect their paint. So it looks like a zone, but it's a man."
LeBron James (04:03): "Floater. You get way more points than just chugging up threes."

5. Embracing Simplicity and Player Freedom

LeBron underscores the importance of simple, efficient plays and granting players the freedom to make decisions on the court. This approach not only minimizes turnovers but also maximizes player confidence and team cohesion.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (08:22): "He's just an efficient. Like, all his movements just seem efficient."
Kevin Durant (09:30): "But I would give Rick Carlisle."

6. The Journey of Basketball Passion and Development

Shifting focus, LeBron shares his personal journey and love for basketball, tracing it back to his early years at a local rec center. He highlights the importance of community, mentorship, and the pure joy of the game in shaping his career.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (12:27): "It was just so much fun that first day and I just wanted to come back."
Kevin Durant (14:04): "I got one playing the league."

7. Training, Obsessiveness, and Commitment

The discussion delves into the necessity of an obsessive work ethic for sustained success in the NBA. LeBron, Kevin, and Chris emphasize that beyond mere volume, the quality and intentionality of training are paramount.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (18:30): "It's that kid, like trait. I mean, we all had obsessive as a kid."
Kevin Durant (20:10): "It's on your anx. It's on your mind."

8. Overcoming Injuries and Adapting

Addressing the challenges of injuries, particularly Achilles tears, the trio shares insights on recovery and adaptation. LeBron discusses his own rehabilitation process, highlighting the mental and physical adjustments required to return to peak performance.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (32:54): "It's the hardest thing, you know, for a basketball player... it's a grind."
Chris Paul (33:49): "It's completely shut down."

9. Reflections on Brooklyn Tenure and Team Challenges

In a candid reflection, LeBron and Kevin Durant revisit their time in Brooklyn, discussing both the highs and the tumultuous aspects that ultimately led to team instability. They touch upon injuries, management distractions, and unmet coaching expectations that hindered their championship aspirations.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (38:08): "We were committed only, but everybody else wasn't."
Kevin Durant (40:05): "From my perspective, I feel a little bit like I let everyone down."

10. Embracing the Journey and Looking Forward

Concluding the episode, the trio emphasizes the importance of passion, commitment, and resilience. They acknowledge the transient nature of an NBA career and stress the value of maximizing every opportunity on the court while preparing for life beyond basketball.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James (27:10): "I truly feel that you gotta recommit and sign that contract with yourself every so often."
Kevin Durant (30:29): "There's nothing like it. And when it's gone, it's like you guys will both do great things."

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Key Takeaways:

• Adaptability in Defense: Modern NBA defenses are more fluid, requiring teams to be versatile and responsive on both ends of the court.

• Player Empowerment: Granting players the freedom to make decisions enhances team cohesion and reduces turnovers.

• Passion and Work Ethic: An obsessive commitment to training and improvement is essential for longevity and success in the NBA.

• Resilience in Adversity: Overcoming injuries and team challenges requires both mental fortitude and strategic adaptation.

• Value of Community and Mentorship: Early influences and a supportive environment play a crucial role in a player's development and love for the game.

This episode offers an in-depth look into the intricacies of team dynamics, personal growth, and the relentless pursuit of excellence in professional basketball, providing valuable insights for both enthusiasts and aspiring players.

Transcript

[Kevin Durant]

When you think back to our time in Brooklyn, what do you think of.

[LeBron James]

It's just crazy how fast the game has changed since I came into the league. It usually is like a slow uptick, but it's like clearly different from what was your last year in the league?

[Kevin Durant]

14.

[LeBron James]

And it was 14.

[Kevin Durant]

And now right in is when I.

[LeBron James]

Feel like that looked like the 90s compared to. Yeah, we done with the 90s. The 14s, the tens through the 14s look like the old style of ball because of the. You know, it's crazy right now, but now it just look like we playing 2K. I love that we shoot so many threes. I love that we got big shooting threes. I love that weekend. He got so much space to work. I even love that you can throw zones in there. They mixing up defense.

[Kevin Durant]

That's an evolution. I think in the last six months.

[LeBron James]

Even that's like when we play Houston, like Eme Udoka does a good job of that. He would go one possession, regular man, next possession zone, go back to man, the next three possession zone. All, all in the first quarter. In the first quarter. And it's like, okay, how good you are as a team, how connected you are as a group, how well you pass. Guys are unselfish. If a coach does that and you not prepared for it.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, you all off balance.

[LeBron James]

You all off balance.

[Chris Paul]

You got no rhythm. I'm gonna even go even more drastic. Who's even more crazier with it. Eric spoelster will go 48 straight minutes of zone. He will start the game with own.

[LeBron James]

Zone and he might 1, 2, 2. Press you back into a zone.

[Chris Paul]

Back into a zone and put bam at the top.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. I mean, I see a lot of coaches being creative defensively and that's pushing players to become better offensive. Because when I'm working out, I'm thinking like. Cause now even a man on man defense starting to look like a zone a little bit. With so many gaps.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, so many gaps got.

[LeBron James]

If you can't shoot for sure they gonna be in the zone.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, yeah.

[LeBron James]

If you got non shooters on the floor, they gonna for sure be loaded up.

[Kevin Durant]

They might not be in zone, but they're sitting in the lane.

[LeBron James]

Exactly.

[Chris Paul]

And they're not moving.

[LeBron James]

Exactly.

[Chris Paul]

And they not moving. If a guy's in the corner and he can't shoot the three and he can't finish, there's a lot of guys. The guy guarding the corner guy's gonna be so far up the lane that you're not gonna be gonna go Anywhere they don't mind if he go back door.

[LeBron James]

Don't let you be under six' nine too. So there's a lot of dudes who can't shoot that six' four, six' five that's playing. And you can just put Jokic on them. And if you drive, you're not getting offensive rebound on him, you're not gonna lay up over him.

[Chris Paul]

You just.

[LeBron James]

He not even looking at you. You know what I'm saying? So if you can't shoot at the, like, if you just can't shoot at all.

[Chris Paul]

It's a premium. It's a premium.

[LeBron James]

You're not even gonna be in the league. I'm sorry.

[Kevin Durant]

But that's why OKC's defense is great. They got individual defenders. They get in the gaps, they're willing to give up threes, but they're gonna fly at you. They protect their pain. So it looks like a zone, but it's a man. But then they'll go zone. Then they'll go zone. Nail catch, man, corner catch man.

[LeBron James]

They switch it up in the possession, during the possession. Right? See, that's. Yeah, these coaches are getting creative, man, on the. On the defensive. But like you said, it's because of the offenses.

[Kevin Durant]

That's it. So it's tit for tat. Offense got so good. Oh, we got to change our.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, we got to figure it out.

[Kevin Durant]

Defense gets good. Now, like you said, it's pushing you to think about how do I find new spaces.

[LeBron James]

Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's. And when you're looking at okc, though, do you like they play an ISO based game?

[Kevin Durant]

They do. When you think about it offensive, they do. So they have Shea, which he's. I mean, historically elite ISO player. Right. Then they have Jalen, who is like kind of an all rounder. Chet brings you versatility. The key to me is Hartenstein in a way, because like he. For 20 to 30 minutes a game, becomes like a fulcrum, a hub. Like the DHO is the floater, the passing to just take the prep, right? Just. It's like the rug that brings the room together.

[LeBron James]

Floater. You get way more points than just chugging up threes, man. Especially when playing with great players. But yeah, he's been a hug for them, getting those other guys involved.

[Kevin Durant]

It doesn't make Shai have to do it in isolation.

[LeBron James]

The whole game.

[Kevin Durant]

Doesn't make Jalen feel like, oh, I gotta do it all the time.

[Chris Paul]

I mean, especially in the post season when the game ramps up physically to be able to have A big as a hub. Okay, you pressure me, pressure me. Okay, you stop me.

[LeBron James]

Boom.

[Chris Paul]

Now I'm playing chase game. Now you can't grab me then. Now I'm playing chase game. I can go back door, which Harnstein we know he makes that backdoor pass with the best of them. You can play chase with him now. He's one of the best screen setters we have in the league. And now Shay's coming off, or J Dub is coming off, you know, if the big helps up too much and the guard ain't get under harsh night, we got a lot of threat, you know, or we gotta skip to the corner, you know, so, you know, having that hub right there. Having a five that can play from the three point line all the way into the paint. And not even. Like you said, he don't need to shoot threes. He know his game. You give it to me in the pinch post, you give it to me on delay action. Y' all trust me to make the right play.

[LeBron James]

I mean, those bigs gotta come into the league with that, right?

[Kevin Durant]

Right. Nowadays you gotta be able to play DHO pinch post, like move, make decisions.

[LeBron James]

Know angle to set it on, you.

[Kevin Durant]

Know, when to keep, when to get rid of it. I think he though, like, he is the fulcrum for their randomness. Shay is. I'm. He's just so elite at it. He's going to attack, but he's kind of the fulcrum to, like. Now we're going. They two on Shay. Now we're going to go. He's going to play makeup.

[Chris Paul]

He knows when to flash. You can tell his. Sometimes his flash is random.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Chris Paul]

You know, the play might break down a little bit. We ain't got nothing. He just run up there.

[LeBron James]

Great feel for, you know, chaos, you.

[Chris Paul]

Know what I'm saying? Organ chaos. Organized chaos.

[LeBron James]

You know what I'm saying?

[Chris Paul]

So they got a damn good team. Damn good team.

[Kevin Durant]

It's fun to watch.

[LeBron James]

I love that the league is trending towards that, though. That's just more hooping. Structure is good, don't get me wrong. But like, I think you maximize your players when you just let them play. Like I seen Obi Toppin playing like some. Some of his best ball that way. I seen Nick Niecemith playing some of his best ball where it's like, you're not restricted to like. All right, let me set this screen and just wait for the jump shot. Like they feel comfortable taking somebody off the dribble. TJ McConnell coming to the game. You feel like it's his team. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like that's just.

[Kevin Durant]

But I would give Rick Carlisle.

[Chris Paul]

I was about to say. Yeah, I was about to say.

[LeBron James]

He's always been like, yeah, he.

[Kevin Durant]

I think he's very adaptable. What he's done in these three, four years is built an identity with his roster. Like, they. Like you said Bron, like, there. It's not like, okay, mismatch. He's like, that's not us. He's found identity. But it doesn't work if those guys don't have enough freedom to play Blender.

[Chris Paul]

Right, right, right, right.

[Kevin Durant]

They have freedom to play Blender. Instead of like, I didn't get it. I got to throw a lob pass to center to Halle to get it back to try again. No, we just keep playing and moving.

[Chris Paul]

You know, you don't see. You don't see Neesmith or Nemar coming off picking rolls, trying to throw lobs.

[Kevin Durant]

Right, right.

[LeBron James]

They just play their game.

[Chris Paul]

No, they don't. That's not what they're doing. Like, everyone. They know exactly what the hell they doing. They know their role, and they are starring in their roles, and they even going outside of their roles. I mean, we even talked about the game. Neesmith had the game one in New York. Yeah, that was game one. They were down. He hit up, what, five or six threes in the last two minutes or something like that. You know, that's just. But that's empowerment from the coaching staff. But it's also empowerment from you as an individual. You have to. A coaching staff can give you some freedom, but a coach staff can also pull that shit back. You ain't doing what the hell you supposed to be doing if you ain't earning it. Now I can't just. Now you look making me look bad. Nah. You know what I'm saying? I can't do that.

[LeBron James]

And what I love about Indy, too, and I think it's an underrated folk factor. Like, Tyrese kicks the ball ahead, throws it ahead. Like, he doesn't dribble across half court every time. Like some. He. Even when they hand him the ball, the center hand him the ball after he kicking in the head, no matter who it is. I think. And I tell a lot of young team, like, coaches who talk, want to talk ball. I'm like, if your point guard not kicking the ball ahead, you gotta. In my opinion, you not. Your team's not as gonna be as good as you.

[Stephen Curry]

More pressure on your team.

[LeBron James]

There's way more pressure when he not kicking that ball ahead. So when you seeing you kicking that head to Siakam and he coming downhill on whoever you kicking it to, Obie topping downhill now he dribble hand off to Aaron Eastmith out the corner. So that kick ahead for them is the reason. There's a big reason why I feel like they been so connected as a player.

[Kevin Durant]

He's great at that. And I think, what else? He's just in general, a brilliant, simple early passer. Comes off pick and roll. He doesn't, you know, if he sees someone, Strozzi and that guy's leaning the wrong way. And now that guy's got a show and go or, you know, DHO with a corner, it gives him an advantage at all times instead of being like bogged down. So I'm impressed.

[LeBron James]

He's just an efficient. Like, all his movements just seem efficient. He doesn't turn the ball over. He don't shoot bad shots. Like, I think he could be more aggressive too, to score the ball sometimes he might have to be, especially this next game. But just their connectivity is based a lot on just moving the ball. Simple plays, like you said.

[Kevin Durant]

And they always say like. It's funny because people say like, well, they don't turn the ball over that much, but they play so fast. I think now, like, it's almost easier to not turn the ball over. You're not thinking about, I gotta make a play. He's open. Chuck it. Pinch, pose, give it back. Like, you're not thinking, me, me, I gotta make a play. You're just thinking simple plays. So now it's not like high risk all the time. Cause that's how we play. We just get rid of it. So you end up. And maybe I should give it more credit, but they end up almost. The style allows them to not turn it over because they're just playing simple.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, you're right.

[Chris Paul]

That's why it looks so weird. In game one, early on, when they was turning the ball over so damn.

[LeBron James]

Much was a 25 turnover.

[Kevin Durant]

Casey's defense.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, it was like 21 turnovers at halftime or something.

[LeBron James]

That's crazy. It was 26 for the game in the finals.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, in the finals. They still won.

[Kevin Durant]

Well, that goes back to your thing about Rick trusting these guys.

[LeBron James]

Right?

[Kevin Durant]

So where does he get that back? They never stopped playing.

[Chris Paul]

No, they did not.

[Kevin Durant]

They never stopped playing.

[LeBron James]

He.

[Chris Paul]

His face didn't ever change either. Now, I don't know what he said at halftime because I think they only have five or six in the second half. But listen, we got here because this is how we play, you know.

[LeBron James]

And as a coach though, coming in a half and you got 21 turnovers in a final. What are you thinking as a coach, then hang yourself.

[Kevin Durant]

No, honestly though. But what Rick does great. I know this 21 is crazy.

[LeBron James]

That's high for a whole game.

[Kevin Durant]

It's high. But it's also credit to okc. Those guys, man, they're unbelievably athletic and handsy and all that stuff. But I think Rick's been unbelievable. I just stayed even. Keough, like, what am I gonna get out of Lamb Basin? You guys, you guys have earned my trust. Let's keep trusting it. Keep playing. It's four series in a row.

[Chris Paul]

I know you got a good team though.

[Kevin Durant]

Four series in a row. They've come back from like historic deficits.

[LeBron James]

I love that mental forter too, as a team. Like, they are mentally strong, they disciplined on what they want to do and they gonna live and die on who they are. They not making no changes. I respect that as a team. Yeah.

[Kevin Durant]

They don't get bogged down.

[LeBron James]

No.

[Kevin Durant]

Like, you know, sometimes in the playoffs things get tight. You start to slow down, you start thinking too much.

[LeBron James]

They just keep playing, you know?

[Stephen Curry]

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[Kevin Durant]

One thing that.

[LeBron James]

I want to ask you about is.

[Kevin Durant]

Like how you found basketball and like how did it take hold of you? Like how old were you? What was going on? Where was it?

[LeBron James]

That's a great question. I think about that all the time I was about eight years old, my mom signed me up for a rec center. She just wanted me and my brother to get out the house. It wasn't a play ball, it wasn't to do anything specific. It was just like, y' all been in the house for seven years under me and your grandma. Y' all need to leave. So about 8 years old, we went to a rec center about 10 minutes from our crib. We walked in there, it was nothing but kids playing and hooping and running up and down the court. And I was just like, I need to, I want to join in with them. And it was just so much fun that first day and I just wanted to come back. And I just kept coming back every day. And then when you see that ball go through the rim, it's just such a satisfying feeling. It's just like for the first time I felt like I was doing something right in my life, you know what I'm saying? When the ball hit the rim or go through the rim. So I just love that feeling. And I just kept coming back. And then I had some great, great influences at the rec center. Older guys who taught me how to play, who put me on the team for the first time, just encouraged me all the time. Just, you know, just big brothers figures to me early on. So that just built my love and the camaraderie that come with, you know, came with the game of basketball, just built from there. So I want to say like eight or nine. I really fell in love with just the process of basketball. Getting in the car, going to the gym, putting my stuff on, working out, talking to my teammates, you know, after practice, all of that stuff just, just, you know, became a part of me.

[Kevin Durant]

So from 8, 9, 10, you were like working on your game. You were playing you already, like, I want to get better, I want to see that. Really. I got one playing the league.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, like I remember seeing. That's what I mean. That's when we first got dial up Internet, like when I was 9, 10 years old. So I'm on NBA.com a lot around that time when I'm 10 and you know, I'm looking up. Vince Carter is my favorite because he's dunking so much. And he showed, you know, enthusiasm in the early, you know, early in his career. So I was attracted to what he was doing. And so I just kept researching on NBA.com trying to find anything inside stuff. And I was just looking for stuff that was basketball. That was basketball at the highest level. And that's what the love built, and then I was just like, I want to do that. Told my mom that. 9. I just started training. I was training before that, you know, fundamentally, you know, working on my left hand, right hand, jump shot stuff. But my training just became, you know, the regimen became, you know, intentional. Yeah, yeah, just what I was. Yeah, I could tell. Box jumps, running up hills, duck walks, you know, shooting 200 shots a day. My mom and my trainer, who was my godfather, who's my coach, like somebody I really hung out with before all of this. He started to get upset with me in workouts. So I just started seeing everybody vibe change around me. So mine's just changed, and I just became more focused on wanting to be the best player I could be.

[Kevin Durant]

That's interesting. You could go two ways at that age.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, this is a lot too much. Yeah.

[Kevin Durant]

You kind of embraced it in a way.

[LeBron James]

I. I enjoyed. I felt like from like 6 to 7, 8 years old. I was outside running around, though, so I kind of understood my body, you know what I'm saying? I knew what I could do.

[Kevin Durant]

Playing football, playing tag, whatever.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, exactly. Jumping rope. I was riding my bike, you know, just doing anything outside up until, you know. So I just think all that, it's just all hit at like one point. I was just having so much fun with my friends and my. I was using my body and finding out new things. I can run fast. I could jump. I could touch the backboard. Damn, I didn't know I could do that, you know. So you just get more enlightened as a human being?

[Kevin Durant]

Yeah, yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know.

[Kevin Durant]

Inspired you?

[LeBron James]

Yeah, it just inspired me to be out there. And I just. I mean, I think that's just what's keeping me going today, to be honest.

[Kevin Durant]

And who, like, I think you mentioned your godfather, but him maybe others, like, who were like, maybe, maybe Wanda, who was your key believers? I think everyone needs someone that's like, you can do this. You're great.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, it's my mom's for sure. I mean, obviously it's always gonna be your moms, but it's like I tuned her out at a certain point, you know what I'm saying? So it was for sure. You know, when I look back on it, I for sure appreciated my mom telling me that I was gonna be great, but I always knew that of course she gonna say that. She was calling me handsome and I was going to school and they was like, oh, nah. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, I understand.

[Kevin Durant]

I can relate to that. 1.

[LeBron James]

I get that, you know? So I was looking for some validation from my coaches, my teammates, to just be like, yo, you nice. Or somebody would be like, yo, we want to pick KD on my team when you're outside. So my friends started to knock on my door, can K come play today? Like, that's how I started to feel confident in myself. And then my coaches was team to work with me every day. So they didn't. It's easy. I seen them say, nah, this kid trash. Don't bring him back tomorrow. But they kept inviting me back.

[Kevin Durant]

So my confidence.

[Chris Paul]

You knew something was there.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, I just knew something was up. Something was, you know what I mean?

[Kevin Durant]

Older kids validating you.

[LeBron James]

Exactly. So everybody around me kind of understood what this was before me, you know? So I started to become more enlightened and open my eyes to what this is as 10, 11, 12, 13. And I just hit the ground running.

[Chris Paul]

You walk in the gym, kids happy to see you. Yeah, they happy to see. Okay back.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, let's play right now. So I love that camaraderie, man. I was just grateful to have a rec center in my neighborhood that provided a space for the kids, you know what I'm saying? And I was grateful. Most of my friends come from Hooper. Most of the people I met come from hooping. I traveled this world because of that, you know what I'm saying? So everything just stemmed back to. I just enjoy being in that gym. That community was perfect for me.

[Kevin Durant]

We spent a lot of time together pre Golden State. Golden State, Brooklyn. Like, you have an obsessive work ethic around your routine and, like, staying sharp and trying to get better. The seeds of that was built then. That wasn't something that, like, you know.

[Chris Paul]

You should have saw him this past summer, last summer, when he couldn't. When he couldn't work out yet because his calf wasn't right.

[LeBron James]

He was sitting on the sidelines, shooting in the chair.

[Chris Paul]

He was so upset. Like, he couldn't, like, the first couple weeks, he couldn't do nothing besides, like, get up and just like. Soon as we got in the gym, we had picture day. He didn't even get dressed, didn't put his uniform on. Went straight out to just start, like, just pissed and like, for sure it's in it.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, man, it's. I don't know. It's that kid, like, trait. I mean, we all had obsessive as a kid. You played with the same toy for a month sometimes, you know what I'm saying? You did the same stuff. I just think I keep that kid, like, energy in me, you know, and I'm up. And that's what comes from, you know, enjoying what you do, wanting to be great at what you do. We all, us three, we understand what that's like. Being in league for so long, being at that level, having that standard that you hold yourself to, you gotta be obsessed. I'm sorry. I mean, I know it's selfish. It's something that. It's like. It's traits that you gotta acquire as a human being in order for you to maintain what you got. And obsession is one of them. And we look at that. We frown upon that as human beings about stuff. But if you really, truly wanna be great at basketball, I'm telling you now, somebody who's done it. I don't want to speak for y', all, but I kind of can understand y'. All, but you have to be obsessed with wanting to get better every day. And it's like, if you don't think that way, if you don't act that way, then it's just that simple. You're not going to be great at it. And so I understood that early and like I said, and also just love doing it and having fun doing it. And that's the reason why I am where I am today.

[Kevin Durant]

It's interesting, right? Like, we all share that obsessiveness about it, but, like, for kids out there, I think it's important for them. It's not just doing it every day. Like, we sat down, Brahm pours and wine. You're like, yeah, I got my work in. Like, it's on your anx. It's on your mind. Like, you'd be anxious if you hadn't gone to the gym yet. You'd be like, so, one, two. All of us, when we get down to business, when we're in our routine, we're doing our work, there's a standard. Like, we're not just there to. If Coach said, make 200 shots. No, no, it's 200 game speed, pressure on the line, day after day after day. Just kids, I think they have to understand, like, it's not just the volume, it's not just the consistency, it's the approach.

[Chris Paul]

And also they'll learn that as well over time. It's not gonna happen day one to the kids out there. They'll learn how to train the right way. They'll learn how they can get the most out of their training, how to get the most out of their workouts. And then, like, K said he started to feel his body change, you know, he started to feel, oh, I know, you know that I can do this a little bit more now. Oh, I can get to this spot a little bit more now because I'm.

[LeBron James]

A little stronger now.

[Chris Paul]

I'm a little faster now. Even at 10, 11, 12 years old, you know, And I look at it, you know, obviously I've had my two boys that play basketball, whatever, and my daughter's playing volleyball right now. She's 10 and she's playing 12U volleyball. So you could just see the difference. Just in like two years, it could be 18 months. You see the difference. Shorter, not as strong, you know, not as fast. Can't jump as high, you know. So, like, as those things continue to mold and get better and you start seeing your body transition and you start. The only thing that matters the most early on is that you want to do it. And you got to love to do it. You got to love it.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Chris Paul]

Because that's going to keep you coming back. The body's going to do what it's going to do. You're going to go to sleep one day and then you're going to wake up and your knee going to be hurting you.

[LeBron James]

Oh, man.

[Chris Paul]

You're like, what the hell's going on? You're going to wake up one day and you can wait and you're going to say something to your mom and your voice going to be a little bit deeper. You like, oh, shit.

[Kevin Durant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Paul]

You know, so like it happens like that.

[Kevin Durant]

But you're right, though. It's the love. Like you can't live without it right now. Right. Like, I've had to move on. It's hard, right? It's hard. You're not too far away. You're not too far away. Like, you guys now have a immediacy with that, you know, that you gotta make the most out of this. You've seen there, been there, done it. Like that all starts with love.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

And it's gonna stay there with love, you know? Cause we can easily get jaded by the business of basketball and the responsibility that comes with being a breadwinner and some of our families. There's a lot that comes with being an NBA player that we don't discuss. A lot. You know, it's like that unsaid thing, you know, but we deal with a lot as human beings and as basketball players. But when you get on that basketball court, that is like your sanctuary, man. Yeah. You can't let that get affected by all of the. That comes with life, you know what I'm saying? So once you keep that sacred. And it takes some time.

[Kevin Durant]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

For people to understand how sacred that is. Like, I'm not coming here to interview with y' all if I ain't work out today. Like, I'm not gonna change my workout. I love you, Bron. I love you, but I'm not.

[Chris Paul]

They definitely told me K can only do after 2:30. I'm like, I work out at 7am I gotta wait till 2:30.

[LeBron James]

It was just like, I just can't compromise that. You know what I'm saying? At this point? 100%, you know what I mean? And I think that's what we all get to. Once we love something.

[Chris Paul]

Do you think another driving factor in our careers right now is others who had the talent and others who had the same opportunity didn't make the most of it in their later careers. Like, people that we grew up watching, people that, you know, that you felt like, damn, I wonder if they worked hard. I wonder if they really put the time into it. Thousand percent to now. Like, you. You look back, you like, you. Like, sometimes I go back and look at certain players back in the day, I'm like, damn, he only played 11 years. Yeah. Or he only played eight years. Like, I. You know, and when you young, you don't. You don't really know, but it's like, nah, you're right.

[LeBron James]

I mean, you definitely look at. I mean. Cause if you're not looking at the guys that come before you as examples.

[Chris Paul]

And Good or bad? Correct.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. You know, good or bad, then you're not going. You know, it's hard for you to be ready for what's ahead. Like, I've seen guys that, you know, you guys, you drove me every day, go and watch your games, watch your box scores. I'm like, all right, if he on that level, I could. Why can't I try to be at that same level too? So that drive. But then you look at guys who didn't necessarily pan out and you know their situation and you want to avoid that too. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, all of that stuff plays a factor. But it's not just one or two or three things that make you a good basketball player. Things you have to do to be a great basketball player. It's so much you gotta retain and understand in order for you to get the full potential out of yourself. You know what I'm saying? And the research is a big part, in my opinion, of becoming a Great basketball player who you listening to, Talk the game, what you watching? How you watching it? How you watching a film? You know what I'm saying? Are you researching old players and stuff? See what they did to understand the foundation they laid down for you?

[Chris Paul]

Are you being real with yourself?

[LeBron James]

Are you being real with yourself when you watch film? Are you holding yourself accountable after games, right after the game? You know what I'm saying? So it's a lot of stuff you gotta ask yourself. You gotta recommit to. To this game. Just like you sign a new contract every time you get better as a player. I truly feel that you gotta recommit and sign that contract with yourself every so often. Like, all right, yeah, I'm 10, 12 years in. I got four MVPs and four championships. Like, but do I still want to do this shit? You know what I'm saying?

[Kevin Durant]

You know how hard it is.

[LeBron James]

Some people say I want to go play baseball.

[Kevin Durant]

Right?

[LeBron James]

Yeah. And then I want to come back. Well, some people say I'm going to go 22 straight. You know what I'm saying? So it's a contract. I feel like you got to have with yourself, too, in order for you to be a, you know, great ball player, to have a long career. That's the goal. To be in the league for 20 years. I tell. That's the goal. However you want to get there. But you gotta recommit to yourself before you commit to anything else.

[Kevin Durant]

That's interesting. But, like, all that's, like, that's a factor. Like, seeing what other people did, seeing maybe they didn't fulfill their potential, they didn't keep going as long as they could have. But it all starts again with that love, that passion for what you do every day for sure.

[Chris Paul]

Because that ain't gonna last. That ain't enough. That ain't enough to keep you going. Seeing what other people did and didn't do.

[LeBron James]

Oh, chew it.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kevin Durant]

You can't just chase other people. You gotta run your own race. You gotta be deeply inside it and engineer that thing. Drive your own bus.

[LeBron James]

You know what I mean?

[Kevin Durant]

I was gonna say, how does that at this stage, like, what is success? You first episode. What does success look like for you? Like, the rest of your career? How do you approach it?

[LeBron James]

For me, it's just.

[Chris Paul]

Were you coming into 19?

[LeBron James]

19?

[Chris Paul]

19, yeah, 19, 19.

[LeBron James]

It's just about. For me, it's just about being in it every day. Like, and when I mean in it, it's just like, every detail, I gotta. I gotta be like if my coaches need to ask me about anything, no matter, you know, I gotta be ready for, if I gotta jump in a drill first, you know what I'm saying? To demonstrate the drill, if I gotta be, you know, play a whole scrimmage and practice, even though 35, 36, I don't want to, I gotta set that example of like, no matter how old I am, that I'm still trying to be great every day. That is a standard, you know what I'm saying? That's really what I'm in it for, is just continue to live up to that every day, whether it's shoot around practice or a game. And I think I love living up to that standard.

[Kevin Durant]

Similar. He was process over, you know, the process, the process trying to be great every day and like leaving an example for other players.

[Chris Paul]

And if you do that, then win, lose or draw, shit, I mean, we get frustrated with losses. We been to the mountaintop before, we want to get back there. But you sleep better than the contrary. If you wasn't doing the other shit for sure and you lose, you're like, oh, I just cheated a season away, I just cheated a week away. I just cheated a day away. For what? Because at the end of the day, this game that we're playing, the basketball game, the life game, whatever the case may be, the game in general, it's not a dress rehearsal. It is right now. We live. We live, baby. We gotta get to it. We gotta make the most of it. When you're that person, when you have the it factor, it's not a dress rehearsal for it. You don't get, you're not allowed to have a dress rehearsal. The others do.

[LeBron James]

Gotta be on every day, gotta be on. And that's the beauty of being given that much responsibility, that you gotta be on every day. It's easy when you get two days a week where you gotta be that guy, you know what I'm saying? But you challenge yourself, you reach different heights as a human being. I think this game, of course you want to be great at playing basketball. There's so many life lessons within the game that enlighten you just on everything, you know what I'm saying? So if you not open minded to that part of it too, not just being highly touted, great player, everybody love you, you got the most points and you got the accolades. But do you actually truly care about coming in every day and being the best that you can be as an individual? And it may not be just shooting the ball, put it in the basket, it May be your influence, what you say to your teammates, how you encouraging your coaching staff, you know, how coachable you are as an individual. You know what I'm saying? All of that stuff I try to stay conscious of because I know the heavy influence that I have as being a veteran in the league. Accomplish so much into the league. Just walking into any gym, it can, it can people attempts just for sure. You gotta make sure they comfortable too. So I try to come into the gym and make sure I'm locked in on being a team player, you know, True and true.

[Kevin Durant]

You guys are approaching it the right way. Cause there's someone who's already gone over the other side. Right. Like there's a lot of reward in life. Like there's a lot of things to enjoy, to, to challenge yourself with. But like this is special. Like it's hard to replicate this once it's done. Yeah, you have family or you have new interests, endeavors, but to be the best in the world or thereabouts at something and to fight for it every day and have that passion to want to get up and do it and think about it, going to bed, it's not like it. There's nothing like it. And when it's gone, it's like you guys will both do great things. When you're done playing, you're both already shit, you know, incredible at business, at life. Once you're done playing, you're done playing. That never comes back. So getting every drop out of it one, I think is the right approach. Two, it makes it okay when it's over.

[Chris Paul]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, makes it okay for sure.

[Chris Paul]

I can't wait to hold up the sign with my grandkids that I scored 101 points in the game before.

[Stephen Curry]

It's coming.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure.

[Chris Paul]

Matter of fact, we should take it right now so I could just. I can hold it up and then I.

[LeBron James]

And now they gonna. What, they not gonna believe you?

[Kevin Durant]

Right?

[Chris Paul]

That's what I'm saying.

[Kevin Durant]

Just 100.

[Chris Paul]

I'll be. I'll pass. Obi.

[Kevin Durant]

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[Kevin Durant]

Trust me, you don't want to miss this. Something else I want to ask you about is. Here you are with this still this incredible passion, incredible efficiency. Still, you tore an Achilles, like, later in your career.

[LeBron James]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about it and.

[Stephen Curry]

Yeah, forgot about it.

[Kevin Durant]

That's crazy. In your 30s, you torn Achilles, recovered, still incredible player. We right now, Damon, JT are going through that. Two great players. You know, obviously, Dame's in his 30s, JT's in his 20s. Like, maybe talk a little bit. Like, talk to Cameron, JT Nova, you know what I mean?

[Stephen Curry]

Talk a little bit about, like, what.

[Kevin Durant]

That took and what these guys have in front of them, because 25 years ago, maybe 15, 20 years ago, I don't know that you could.

[LeBron James]

I mean, even when I had it, I felt like, damn, that's.

[Kevin Durant]

Is this it?

[Chris Paul]

Because it was always, like, for us, I mentioned, like, for basketball players, that injury is the worst thing you. You know, for football players, a concussion, you don't want to get, like, you, like, oh, man. A concussion. Like, you know, if you get too many of those, it's over. You know, they trying to keep you out. And for us, like, you know, and Achilles is like the, you know, something that's, man.

[LeBron James]

It's. Man, it was a grind. And of course, you know, JT and Dane, you know, hit me up. I feel like I'm the Achilles guy, who you are. Yeah, everybody hit me up when they had the Achilles. And. Yeah, I mean. I mean, a lot of guys. I feel like a lot of guys have bounced back and became themselves again. I'm just. I mean, mine's just the most, you know, popular, but I feel like a lot of guys have bounced back that I took inspiration from when I was going through my journey. But those guys are cut from a cloth that you know.

[Kevin Durant]

How they got here.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, it's rare. They're rare individuals anyway, so this is just a little stoppage in their. In their journey that they just gonna have to sit down and lock in on. And it's easy. I think it'll be easy for them to lock in on once they truly grasp that, like, I'm gonna be out for a year, and I think that takes Initially, that takes a few weeks for you to truly understand. This is probably their first time in their whole lives. They gotta sit down and not play sports. They can't. You physically can't play. That's probably the first time that they had to go through that. And that's just a. You can either elevate or drown in my opinion. And I think both of those dudes have shown you time and time again that they gonna continue to elevate as individuals and as players. But it's a grind, man. Like you see me every day. You see me.

[Kevin Durant]

It was grinding even when you were back.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Kevin Durant]

The amount of work you have to.

[LeBron James]

Do to make sure you still have to rehab. When I'm playing, I'm still doing some of this stuff that I was doing in that rehab. So it's going to be a your game and your body is going to for sure change because. And I'm telling people with Dame, he shoot a lot of those deep threes. When you tell your Achilles your calf muscle goes to nothing. You sit around for three months and you can't move your calf. Cause if you look at mine now, I wish I could show people my right is smaller than my left. But that's just from not using it for those four or five months.

[Chris Paul]

It's completely shut down.

[LeBron James]

It's completely shut down. So that's most of the work. Right, Right. Right. Is getting that calf back to that. You gotta get it bigger and stronger. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's gonna be the adjustment for them and those deep threes that both of those guys shoot. They shoot a lot of tough step back threes. I think that's. And I was shooting those before, you know, I got injured and I fine tuned my game to take some of that stuff out the side step. Just not because it's a bash, it's cause I didn't truly have enough power in my right leg yet in order for me to do those moves. So it's gonna be that type of adjustment for guys coming back from Achilles is just building that power up. And once you get confidence, for sure. Cause I just threw myself out there too. I'm hooping as soon as I can hoop. I was playing, you know. So once they just throw themselves out there, man, them dudes gonna be all right, man. I can't wait to see them bounce back.

[Kevin Durant]

The overcoming is great, right? Cause the whole time you're like, am I coming back? There's anxiety, there's doubt, you're fighting every day. To overcome it. You come back, you succeeded. I get it. Amazing, almost. We take it for granted, really. Like, even when I coached, I took it for granted, like, sometimes because you were playing so well, moving well, like what you'd been through. But what did that time, did that time off change you at all? Like, open your mind to stuff?

[LeBron James]

It did open my mind to just the anatomy of human body, you know, just learning my body, understanding, you know, power transfer or, you know, movement, movement patterns and, you know, different ways to work on muscles in the weight room that allow me to be at my best. What exercises is tailored to my game specifically. I started learning more about that stuff, which, you know, made my workout regimen just even more detailed and routine and, you know, so before that I was, you know, in the weight room a lot and working on my body, but it was no real intention or purpose when I went in there. Now it's just like I know exactly what. Super specific, yeah, way more specific on what I'm doing in the weight room. And I think that's the reason, majority of the reason, why I was able to bounce back the way I did.

[Kevin Durant]

When you think back to our time in Brooklyn, what do you think of.

[Chris Paul]

Him stepping on that damn three point line?

[LeBron James]

We had discussions.

[Chris Paul]

That's one of them.

[LeBron James]

I can't get away from it too, because they gonna repost that and tag me in that. But we had this conversation in Portland, I think, right before the game, and I'm like, who am I spending my next five years with? I had just signed that deal. You had just signed a deal. But I feel like we were secure, but everything else around us was going to shit. Not in a bad way. We got GMs going to other teams, we got coaches going to other teams. We got players forcing trades. We got. Bringing Ben Simmons, he's back. Like, it was just so much stuff going on, bullshit around us. I feel like we were locked in on the same page and understanding, like, well, we trying to do something special here, but. And I felt like your hands were tied a lot because you had to as a coach. You got to deal with so much.

[Kevin Durant]

Didn't get to coach as much as I wanted to.

[LeBron James]

That's what it was. I didn't think we didn't get the full Steve Nash like I wanted, like you probably wanted. I just felt like it was just too much, too many distractions in a way. And you know, you can't win that way. But I felt like we had great intentions, though. I felt like we cared enough. I felt like Every day we were trying to push towards winning the champ. It was a great vibe in there. It was some of the best times that first year. That's why I signed that deal that first year, man. Most fun ball I had some of the most fun ball I had playing my whole life. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Brooklyn a lot. I love playing for Brooklyn, but it's just so much stuff happened around the guys that were committed to the situation. I felt like we were committed only, but everybody else wasn't. It just was weird.

[Kevin Durant]

I felt. Sometimes I feel like I let you guys down in a way and then I think about everything that happened.

[LeBron James]

Come on, man, let's.

[Kevin Durant]

We had a three star roster, you know, the cap. This team of three stars played 16 games together.

[LeBron James]

We balled out every game we played together.

[Kevin Durant]

You know, that's one. You know, you could go down the list and add all these things and for me, I end up feeling like I'm making excuses. Reality is, from my perspective, I feel a little bit like I let everyone down. But then I realized there was so much and I just wish I had more of a chance to. To develop as a coach.

[LeBron James]

I think so too. I just think your hands were tied. Too many times. You had to be a principal more so than anything, you know what I'm saying? Like, you just couldn't like inject your basketball, you know what I'm saying? Just everything that you have, basketball, I didn't feel like you could inject that into everybody in the world the way that you. We all envisioned, you know what I'm saying? Just because of the distractions, Covid, injuries more than anything, I think it's injuries. I feel like we had a good chance to win that first year, but we were injured.

[Kevin Durant]

James shouldn't have been playing. He was on one leg. Kai was out. Jeff Green was in and out.

[LeBron James]

So I think more than anything, I think we had a great chance to win that year. I stepped on the line, but yeah, it's just life. Some shit happens that way, man. But I don't think that should be an indictment on anybody. It's just like people don't understand context though, man, what truly happens and how you need to really be, you know, be connected as a group. Like they just looked at the names and thought it was going.

[Chris Paul]

It's supposed to be perfect.

[Kevin Durant]

And people always like, think like, like you said, without context. But also they want to come in over the top and say, ah, they didn't do it, they didn't do this, they didn't do that. I think for guys like that go every day. Like our, even our approach to our routines. It's war every day. We're not afraid to lose.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, right.

[Kevin Durant]

You know what I mean? So when we lose, it doesn't work out. We're not at home and everyone's like, oh, they're killing. We don't think about that. Right. We think about like ticket on the chin. Let's get ready for whatever the next war is. Right.

[LeBron James]

We're going putting our boots back on the next year. Like that's always been a of matter mentality, but you know, the dialogue around the league, the discourse around the league, they don't truly appreciate the journey sometimes and what goes on. Even. Even the ones that don't work out. You can still see some beauty in the Sacramento Kings that didn't win the chip.

[Kevin Durant]

Right.

[LeBron James]

Or your Phoenix Suns that didn't win the championship. Like, it's, it's. If you really love the game of basketball, you can pull great things from all of that stuff. And that's what I tend to do with that Brooklyn. That Brooklyn situation is we had some fun times, we had some terrible times, but that's life. That's what makes you a better human being. But for the most, I mean, if I'm being honest, we had more good times than not even the times when it was me and Ford two way, like shit was fun.

[Kevin Durant]

To me, it was fun. We were successful.

[LeBron James]

Cause we locked in as a family, just us for that little 48 minutes. And a lot of those games were like, you know, high pressure games, late games. I'm sure those, you know, even me, I learned from. But those young guys took a lot from that too. So I look at the season like that a lot. Of course we want to win and go to the chip, but it's little small moments that I can appreciate throughout a year. Even though we don't add up to winning and a lot of people don't understand that, but we still, we. That shit is in our DNA and our blood. Like, we look at the game ball like that.

[Kevin Durant]

Yeah. I mean, it, it. It ended up not being a success, quote, unquote. But it was great experience.

[LeBron James]

Great experience. That's all it's about.

[Kevin Durant]

Cut us off before we go for.

[LeBron James]

Another dry R. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I come back part two. Yeah, Yeah.

[Kevin Durant]

I think you have to be coming back for part three.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, right.

[Chris Paul]

I think we got two of them. Yeah, we got two of them for sure.

[LeBron James]

We got to watch some film next time. Break it down.

[Stephen Curry]

Hey, and I want this on the record.

[LeBron James]

The only.

[Kevin Durant]

You forgot to mention the only member of the 55.

[LeBron James]

We know. We know that we a got to put that on to say that I should look it up.

[Kevin Durant]

One year you was 39.13. Thanks for bringing it up.

[LeBron James]

And I was 50 from the. Oh, my. Can we. Can we get one?

[Stephen Curry]

Like, sitting or sitting or standing?

[Kevin Durant]

You're the guest. No, you're the guest.

[Chris Paul]

Y' all still fighting?

[Stephen Curry]

Thanks for watching Mind the game.

[Kevin Durant]

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