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- [00:00]
A
You have this encyclopedia of everything basketball, what it takes, how do you balance being dad and being able to help them.
- [00:09]
B
You don't want to get on their nerves too much because they're tuning you out. I mean, that's what having kids is all about. They will tune you out. I definitely be on their nerves a lot, but that's me, that's me. I mean, I'm like that.
- [00:20]
A
My son, he's. I don't know how decided he is if he wants to keep on, but you know, like sometimes you know what it's like being a father. I'll say, like, you know, Matteo, you got to get your elbow in and create this like line to the basket. And because I'm dad not, you know, a former NBA player, he's like, well, that's not the only way you can do it. There's this kind of thought out there that like, you know, it won't be good to have two small market teams in the finals. I take offense to that. Look, I love big market legacy names, brands. I get why. Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Warriors, I get it and I love it and it's great for our game. But these are two fantastic basketball teams that are very, very unique. How do you feel about the small market comments and where does this come from?
- [01:29]
B
I don't know. I don't know where it come from because I mean, listen, I played in Cleveland for 11 years and we were a small market, you know, so, you.
- [01:37]
A
Know, until you got there.
- [01:38]
B
Yeah, until I got there. They became a big market. But I don't know, I just think that. I think it's all about just the storylines. It's about what people can say on TV and create these, you know, Superman versus Batman or DC Comics verse, you know, Marvel. Like when it comes to the game of basketball, it doesn't matter who's representing who. It's about two great teams.
- [02:05]
A
Right.
- [02:05]
B
You know, and we talked, we talked previously in a lot of our episodes about. Yes. You know, we praise a lot of individuals and rightfully so. We have unbelievable individuals in our sport over the years, have done great things and have put themselves in position to be talked about. I get it. But one thing we cannot disrespect is great teams. You know, we can't disrespect the 2003 Detroit Pistons, you know, with Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun, Ben, Rasheed wrestled like that group, you know. You know, these are teams that's just completely put together, you know, you can't disrespect, you know, the what was it? The 2019 Toronto Raptors, you know, with Fred Van Fleet, you know, Kawhi, you.
- [02:47]
A
Know, the Duns got injured, but great team. Yeah.
- [02:49]
B
You know, we know guys get injured. Yeah. And, you know, we know that. But that's a great freaking team. When you look at that roster, you look at that roster like, that is a great team. You know, so, like, you know, we have this Indiana OKC situation and these are two great teams. And if you are a basketball fan and you really love our game, then you can learn so much from watching the way those, both of those teams play. Yes. You're not going to. You know, I understand. You know, you want. You have your favorite players, you have your favorite colors or whatever the case may be that drag you to it. And I understand there is something about that. But if we're just talking about the purity of the game and the sport, these are two teams that played the game the right way. And, you know, and you love to see it. You love to see it. And even after that, they fucking earned it.
- [03:33]
A
Right? Right?
- [03:34]
B
They fucking earned it. They've been through the trenches. And yes, we, you know, you know, injuries happen and things of that nature, but at the end of the day, you still gotta show up and play the game. The game is won. In between the four lines, you can't just, someone's injured. You can't just show up and be like, okay, forfeit, we won. Because you don't have your player. Like, no, you still gotta play the game. 100. Indiana's been playing great basketball. OKC's been doing this all year, and I think it'll be a great finals to watch. I mean, I love the game, so, you know, I'll be in the tennis.
- [04:04]
A
But I was going to say, like, we want parity. You know, we don't want it every year to be the same two teams. We want. That's what we've done with our salary cap and the tax and revenue sharing, all that stuff. And I think from a fan perspective, we want that. We want teams to not all play the same way. Right. The league has gotten smart playing in such a similar style to take advantage of the analytics numbers. Here's two teams that have uniqueness, unique defensively and offensively for okc, but also like the Pacers, they play a unique style. That's, I think, a look into the future for me. I hope there's a lot of fans that are excited about this matchup. But for me, is there a comment on the nature of our media nowadays? So Social media. Our networks have talking head shows where we want to debate. Right. I'm sure it's less expensive in some ways. I don't know what it is, but, like, we have these talking head shows where we got a debate, you know, go back to, like, the NBA on NBC. Bob Costas doing a small story with the right theme music and energy that brings the fans into a game in a series, because they're telling this vignette like the Olympics. Right. But now we don't do as much as that. We are talking and arguing, and if we're gonna talk and argue, let's talk and argue about the big names.
- [05:15]
B
Right?
- [05:15]
A
Right. So in a way, I think it's the nature of the media. Do you feel like there's some truth to that, how we shove these, like, you know, I don't know if we can call em Coastal elites or the big brands down people's throats. Whereas, like, we want parody. There's a story told here, too.
- [05:30]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And we all have a story, you know, and there's a lot of stories that can be told. That's on the OKC roster and on the Pacers roster.
- [05:40]
A
Right.
- [05:40]
B
You know, and it's like, do the guys that. That preach our game want to do? They want to do the homework and take the time out to actually tell these stories? And it doesn't seem that way. It's just, what can I say? Without truth or without knowledge, you know, or just this is what I want to say. And there's no accountability behind it. And I think that that now goes to our fans. We have to protect our players and protect our product and also bring an awareness. I think our game is also about storytelling. We have to tell the stories of our players, of how they've gotten there, why they're there, you know, the journey it took for them to get there. Like you said, I used to remember watching when I was a kid or watching my younger days, before it got to where it is, where before the finals would start, there were multiple stories about these guys that were going into these games. You would know these stories. You will learn. You will. You will feel a sense of, like, emotion behind certain guys because the story was told. It wasn't like, this guy's not a superstar, so it's going to be difficult to watch it. Or is he a superstar? Like, is the only reason that this team is here because of this player being injured? And only if it. If that didn't happen. Well, like, you can't play the if game. Like, the if that is ridiculous, you know, guys have earned the right to represent their teams and represent their franchises in the big stage. And I think the one thing that I know for sure when it comes to players, before there was like, I couldn't be seen or I wouldn't be heard if I was in a small market, you know, I had to be in la, I had to be in New York, I had to be, you know, in Chicago. I had to be, you know, in certain markets in order to be seen, in order to be be heard. Well, that's not the case now. You know, the case now with social media, with every single day around the clock coverage of our game, good or bad, you could, you could perform anywhere. You could perform anywhere and be great anywhere. So the whole notion of I don't want to play in a small market or you shouldn't be in a small market, that is, that's. That is gone. That is flushed down the toilet. Because obviously we're looking now where, you know, we have the Indiana Pacers and we have the Oklahoma City Thunder, you know, and representing the NBA Finals, you know, possibly. So that, that is, that narrative is gone. I just, we, we need to teach the game. We need to, we need to talk about the game, but also, like, just have a better understanding of like, you know, storytelling. You know, I think that just helps our product and it helps and it helps our fans to relate to the players that they, you know, that they may not outside the market of OKC or outside the market of Indiana, you know, maybe don't know a lot of these guys.
- [08:23]
A
You make a great point. I think social media too, you think of the impact, like, has it made us lazy in a way in this storytelling? Because I can go to Shay's page and like, you know, see what he wore to the game, how he works out in the summer. I think I know him, but like, that's not, like, that's not really knowing him. Like, what are the ingredients that got him there then? Also, like, all the fake stuff on social, like, you know, we both have teenage boys, like, the stuff that they hear and think is true about the NBA and it's like, oh, my goodness, absolutely not even in the world of true is amazing. And I think so. Sometimes it's like there's the misinformation, there's the clickbaity stuff. There's maybe that we've all gotten a little lazy. Because I could just go to Halle's page and see what he's up to, what he's like, quickly scroll It I know him well, we don't really know him. We don't really know what makes him different. So telling those stories in a way, we do more talking head on the networks, we do more doom scrolling on the social. Then there's all the fake news and all the clickbaity stuff. So we never really get to like, where are the cold hard facts or an interpretation of this player, this team, this coach. There's two great coaches if these two teams meet in the finals. These are two really fascinating coaches. One a lifer who's been unbelievable and one is like maybe the youngest, if not one of the younger coaches in the league who's been able to manage this.
- [09:44]
B
Yeah, I think I'm older than. I think I'm older than him.
- [09:46]
A
I think you are too, my friend. I think you are too.
- [09:48]
B
Oh my goodness.
- [09:49]
A
Right? So like two brilliant coaches. Like we could tell these stories, right? Like, let's not take it for granted. Let's see how they've innovated, how they've kept groups together, how Indiana's chipped away and gotten better every year. Also, neither one of these teams are in the tax now. Obviously both can go there. OKC is going to have tax problems in the future, but they have all this incredible asset war chest to kind of manage that. So there's so many stories out there that we could tell. Styles, make fights, personalities. Like you said, storytelling is everything, right? It's what gets people passionate about things. So I think you make a great point there. And I also wonder, has social media brought us a lot and also taken a lot away?
- [10:32]
B
Yeah, it's definitely brought us a lot, but it's desensitized us quite a bit, you know, quite a bit. And, you know, I just hope that, you know, people, you know, don't take for granted, you know, having the opportunity to see, you know, two great teams, you know, play the game the right way. And, you know, I understand, like you said, you have your favorites. You have your favorite players, you have your favorite colors, you have your favorite franchises. But you know, when things are earned and not given, then we all have to sit back and appreciate and tell that story, right?
- [11:10]
A
This episode is sponsored in part by American Express. American Express has taught me that finding the perfect restaurant is a lot like finding the perfect play. It's all about timing, research, and sometimes a great recommendation from someone you trust. Being on the road so much, I've become pretty particular about where I eat. My ideal spot is usually a local owned place that has great energy, where you can Enjoy an amazing meal while having a great conversation. Sometimes it's that new fusion spot everyone's talking about. Others, it's just a little spot a friend recommended. With AMEX Gold, you earn four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants. On up to $50,000 in purchases per year. So you can get rewarded for dining at some of the hottest restaurants in town and earn up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at U.S. rESI restaurants. Enrollment required. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com withamx well, shifting gears a little bit, like, let's talk a little bit what the finals are like, like.
- [12:21]
B
How unique it is.
- [12:22]
A
Like, let me throw some things out there and then I want to hear you kind of talk on it. As someone who's, who's got to the conference finals, I don't know, I think maybe four times and never got to the finals. I can imagine. And I'd love to hear your perspective on things like the travel, family, tickets, scouting, intensity with more rest. Like, there's so many factors that make this. One, not only the height of the height, the end of the road. The end of the road. Two teams that have the one chance at the end of the day to get there. And then you add all this extra stuff. Games, the games, the media, the intros, everything changes. Start wherever you like. But tell me a little bit about that and like how the NBA Finals are unique.
- [13:04]
B
Yeah, the NBA Finals are unique in one way because it becomes, you know, you understand, this is the hoorah. This is the last hoorah for the end of the season. So you know that you're going to have family that wants to be a part of it. You know that the travel is going to be different. You, you, you know that the hotels is going to be a little bit different because of the excitement outside of the hotel room, you know, you know, outside of your room, there's going to be horns and people yelling, whatever, getting excited, you know, and you think, you think, like, you know, you know, for me, I've been in, I played in San Antonio a couple of times in the finals. And being on the Riverwalk for a couple of those finals, the horns and the people yelling and whatever the case may be, it's like, oh, my God, I can't get any sleep.
- [13:48]
A
Couple extra margaritas for every person.
- [13:51]
B
Exactly. A couple extra margaritas for everybody. So I think you can't change too much, you know, and the only thing that, like, the change is that the games are a little later. You know, I remember every game starting at like 9:00 clock Eastern Standard Time. You know, I hate long days. I hate long days. Like you just wait all day, even after a nap, you still have time just to sit around in your room before the first bus or before, if, if it's a home game, you're driving to the game. But you got to try to keep everything the same. And also, like, for me personally, I never let my family come to a finals game unless it was a closeout game. If we were up, you know, three one or we were. Or if it was three three. So like, game, game. We went to game seven in 2016 finals. My family didn't come until game seven, you know. You know, it was just like, I had to, I had, I didn't want to change anything. I didn't want to change anything. And obviously if we had an opportunity to close out, you know, that final game, if we was about to have our fourth win and we had an opportunity to do it and the family would be there. But other than that, I kept them home because I didn't want to, especially on the road. I didn't want my family on the road during the finals. And I'm trying to focus on not only myself, but carrying my team, making sure my teammates is locked in. And then if something happened in the stands with my family, it could very easily knock me out of my locked out zone. Now I can't be as locked in if I want to because, you know, some idiot or whatever, some fan has said something to my wife or said something to my kids or said, you know, and, or my mom is there, they say something to my mom. So like, unless it was the closeout game, my family stayed home. And that's how I always kept it. And it worked for me, you know, and a couple of my finals wins.
- [15:39]
A
It's a, I mean, a great point about the sacrifice and what it means like you, that might be the last time you ever go to the finals, right? You've been fortunate, you've won multiple. You've been a bunch of times. But nothing's guaranteed, right? Nothing's guaranteed, nothing at all. Prioritizing the opportunity at hand. So there's one and then, so 1. It's like making a decision like that that, you know, to someone, a common person might be like, oh, that's kind of cold. You only. No, no. I played all year. I've trained my whole life to get to this moment, to try to win a champ. Making tough decisions like that is important of a winning formula. Right? And then on top of that, when they do come to a closeout game, how do you manage that? Like, you can imagine you, obviously, with all your experience, but what about a young player, the seventh, eighth guy in the rotation who's like, family wants to come? Hotel rooms, flights, tickets.
- [16:28]
B
Right, right, right.
- [16:29]
A
That's a factor.
- [16:30]
B
Right? That's a factor. And I hope that. I hope that, you know, that you're with the organization that's like, hey, let us take care of that. Just tell us, okay, who's all coming. We will handle their flights. We will make sure that they get their rooms. We can settle, you know, the money and all that stuff after the fact. But, like, let us know. Let us handle it so you can just continue to focus on the job at hand. Like, you know, for a young guy, like you said, if he's a seventh or eighth guy and he's playing, he's a big part of the rotation. You don't need anything that's getting into his mind that he needs to worry about that can stop him from being as locked in as possible to helping his team, you know, win the ultimate. You know, that is. That's the sacrifice. You also have to have a very understanding family. They have to understand.
- [17:15]
A
Great point.
- [17:15]
B
You know, and I can only speak for mine. My family has always been understanding of what I wanted to accomplish in my career, you know, and it was never, no, no, no pullback. It was never no, you know, I need to be there. You don't want, like, it was always, listen, handle your business. And when you want us there, we're there and we're ready to support. And. And. And that was. It made it a lot easier on me. It made it a lot easier on me to be able to leave. And the four finals that I've won, I've been fortunate to. You know, two of them was the closeouts at home, so that was much easier. You know, my two in Miami were, you know, closeout. Game five at home versus OKC and a closeout game, Game seven versus San Antonio. My third one was a closeout game in Oakland at the old Oracle arena, which was very difficult and challenging, but the family came to that. And then the last one was a Game 5 closeout in Orlando at the Bubble. And, you know, part of my family was there for. For that. So that was. That was really cool. But, yeah, you have to have an understanding group of people around you that can take the pressure off you feeling pressured because you're already getting so much Pressure being a part of the finals.
- [18:30]
A
Anyways, you made a great comment about, although it's the finals, it's our two week super bowl, essentially.
- [18:36]
B
Yeah.
- [18:37]
A
Although it, it's. Everything's different. The intros, the media, outside the hotel, the travel, the rest. You get a little bit more rest in the finals. You know, you often get two games, two days between games.
- [18:50]
B
Yeah.
- [18:51]
A
But you want everything to stay the same. Right. Did you talk to your teammates about that or did you just show that, like, I'm keeping it the same.
- [19:00]
B
Yeah. Over the years. Yeah, I definitely talked to him about it. Like, how do you manage your time? You know, because there are extra, you know, there's idle times. Like you said, it's two days in between and there's one day that you have to fly in just to do media.
- [19:11]
A
Yep.
- [19:12]
B
You know, they're, they, they really just block off the whole court.
- [19:15]
A
Right.
- [19:15]
B
And there's tables set up and you're sitting there. It's like All Star Weekend all over again. And it can be annoying, you know, but you. If I had to give one piece of advice, though, as much as it is annoying, you know, just, you take full advantage of it because it's not promised, like you said, it's not promised that you can get there every year or multiple years. You just got to take full advantage of it, but also just keep the main thing. The main thing. And that's one of the one things that I learned from Pat Rowley, like, he just always would say, like, listen, we're here for a reason. We're here to do a job, you know, enjoy it, but keep the main thing. The main thing, you know, and if you're able to do that, I think it gives you even a little bit more, you know, than if your opponent is not keeping the main thing. The main thing, you know, so, you know, that's what I've always kind of trying to keep my guys focused on that. Like, we're here to do a job. We're right here. These are going to be the hardest possible four games that we could possibly win in your life. There's never going to be a harder time than right now, you know, so let's just try to keep the main thing. The main thing. Enjoy it. Have fun. It's going to be a little different. It's going to be like All Star Weekend. If you've been there, it's going to be like. And I've heard like, NFL guys say that they hate the Super bowl, you know, they hate the Super Bowl. There's Guys, I've seen that said, even when they won it, they hated the super bowl because it didn't feel like a. It didn't feel like a game. It felt like a business. It felt like it was just like, bring us here. Show them pony dog and pony show, you know, and it didn't feel like a regular game. And sometimes it could feel that way, you know, throughout the course of the finals. But. But it's fun. I tell you that. It is very fun.
- [20:51]
A
Once you're on the floor, it's fun. Yeah, those lights are bright, and that's when competitors love it the most. But you bring up a good point. There's an advantage to be had potentially, in managing all that. Managing the two days in between, managing the families, managing your approach. You know, there's nervous energy, and when you have two days and nervous energy, sometimes it can be the wrong approach, for sure. You can get an advantage, obviously, just in how you manage your approach to the finals.
- [21:18]
B
Yep. And, you know, you said it right. It becomes an advantage of how you manage your approach. For facts. That's a fact.
- [21:24]
A
Tell me a little bit about the bubble. Like, the bubble's the bubble. I'd love to hear that. But, like, then playing the finals in the bubble, where, like, you literally are going back to the same hotel or maybe two different hotels on the same.
- [21:35]
B
Property, or was the heat and I. I don't remember. No, I think the heat was in our hotel.
- [21:41]
A
And so, like, you're getting on a bus right next to their bus, and you're, like, literally going back to the same place and.
- [21:45]
B
Yeah, going back to the same place. You. You know, every morning you have to get tested in the morning, you might bump into them in the courtyard when you're. That. That. That's another part of, like. That's like some. That's like some mental. It's mental warfare, right? It's another level of being even more. It's no escape. It's like, okay, I've battled this guy. He's pushed me. He's cursed me out. It's a physical game. And then when it's time for me to finally relax and go back and have a glass of wine, I'm bumping into this guy in the elevator, right?
- [22:19]
A
You gotta ride up with him for.
- [22:20]
B
Yeah, I gotta ride up 40 floors to get up to my room. It's another set of mental warfare. And it's like, who's gonna be the one? Who's gonna be the one that falls? Who's gonna blink, you know? And like, that was a very challenging, difficult thing because you just don't wanna be around the competition until I get on the floor.
- [22:38]
A
Yeah, you wanna save it for the winning counts.
- [22:39]
B
Yeah, you wanna save it for when it counts. So that's exactly, exactly what it was. So different and challenging, for sure.
- [22:45]
A
And you said your family came to that the whole thing, or click.
- [22:49]
B
No, no, my family didn't come to the whole thing, but they, you know, and during the bubble, they had to be there at least a week to quarantine, and then they were able to. So they were there. You know, you had to be there, like, a week before they could even see us.
- [23:03]
A
So they're. They're in their rooms for a week. Just to be able to come to a game.
- [23:06]
B
Yeah, just to be able to come to a game. Nope. And it was off campus, too. It wasn't even in the property. We were. They. They. They stayed off campus. So they would have to be there for a week to 10 days in their rooms. You know, they have to stay with their parties that was over there who also came down at the same time. And that was before. So you had to bring them in, like, two weeks beforehand, before the games even started.
- [23:27]
A
Yes, in practicing in the finals. So, like, the media at the quarantine, were they there? Was that all on Zoom?
- [23:33]
B
No, they were there. No, they were there. Media was. Media was there too. So they had quarantine as well.
- [23:37]
A
On the court. Media day type stuff between. With the media in person.
- [23:41]
B
Yeah, with the media in person. Some of they. They only allowed a certain amount of media members in. So you would do. You would sit down, like, I'm sitting down now. And there would be a camera set up for the people that was not invited to be there on Zoom. And then other, like, beat writers, just, like, they let the, like the local beat writers in, in person. Yep. The ones that was quarantined. Yep.
- [24:01]
A
And for practice, are you busting over to the gate, the court, or is there other courts in the building?
- [24:05]
B
No, they had. They. They set up a. They set up a court. They set up, like, five courts inside of the hotel where we stayed at ballrooms. Yep. They brought in the court and everything. So you will literally go down. You have your time slot, you know, and it's funny because right after practice, you have to be off. You can literally be walking out of practice and walking right past the team.
- [24:24]
A
That you're about to play, even with five courts. Like, so let's talk about you in the heat. Would you guys had your own Practice court for the finals, or were you.
- [24:30]
B
Yeah, we had our own practice court. Yes. Yeah. So. So once you. Once you lost, if you didn't. Didn't, you know, didn't advance, then you're gone. You. You can leave. You're going back home. So once it got to us versus the heat, you know, there were different rooms, different ballrooms. So they had their. They had their main floor court, and we had ours on the other side of the hotel. But like I said, you can still bump into a guy. You know, if I came downstairs for dinner and I wanted to go to the courtyard where they have served food or whatever, or if I wanted to go to another restaurant that they had, I could literally bump into the guy. And I'm about to compete for a championship with tomorrow night, which is.
- [25:09]
A
Yeah. Are you kidding me? How many. Like, that's. That's like you said, that's warf. Mental Warfare Memorial went to.
- [25:14]
B
Yep, Mental Warfare.
- [25:15]
A
How many restaurants were in there, though? Like, were you sick of the food? There was only there for two months or whatever. How long?
- [25:20]
B
I was there for 96 days.
- [25:23]
A
Three months.
- [25:24]
B
Yeah. I was. I would never forget. Oh, my goodness. I was there for 96 days. And there was one restaurant where it was outside that was called Three Bridges, but that didn't open until like, after the first six weeks that we was there. So the only place that they allowed us to go to something different. Oh, my. The only place they allowed us to go to was a restaurant. Inside the hotel was kind of like a little. Like a little sports bar, you know, that was in the hotel. They opened it up after. After, like two weeks after we had all. Everybody quarantined. We would go downstairs and it was like a sports bar. They had the TV set up. All the games that was playing in the bubble, all the, you know, the regular season that we had to finish and then the playoffs, and you would go down there and you could order a little food, you know, and watch the game just to get out of the room. Just to get out of the room. And that's all we actually wanted, was to get out of the damn room, you know? So, yeah, that's all. It was only like two places. Like two places.
- [26:24]
A
Of all the things being in a bubble for 96 days, it just. I think about the food. Like, how do you get it? Just something different all the time. And like, how that would play out a toll on you.
- [26:34]
B
Oh, man. It played a toll on my body for sure when it. Because I. I eat, so I have a set Regime about what I eat, especially during the playoffs. You just could. It was certain quality of food and certain quality of, you know, produce and greens and things that I, I know that has my, My engine running that I, I. You just. It was not, it was not available to you, so you just had to. You just had to figure it out. You had to figure it out.
- [27:00]
A
And what about. That's. That's crazy. Six days finals for a ring and it's the same garden salad, Right? So what about, like, shipping stuff in? Like, did you. Was there, Was there something that you remember? I had to ship it in.
- [27:18]
B
I don't know.
- [27:19]
A
I'm not talking, like, contraband. I'm just talking, like a. Books or video, like, stuff.
- [27:23]
B
You're like, yeah, I took some. I took books with me. I took my video game with me. But one thing I did ship in, I ordered a wine freezer.
- [27:31]
A
Okay, yeah.
- [27:31]
B
Wine fridge. And I ordered. And I ordered a bunch of wine.
- [27:35]
A
There you go.
- [27:36]
B
I promise you. I kept saying yes. That kept me. I have a photo in my phone and I'll show you one day. Yeah. Of all. And I. After I drank the wine, I would just. I would just sit them and line them up on the floor of my room, side by side. Keep the cork in a little container. That's what. That was my priority. I would get up every single day. I would play my video game. I would stretch in my room. You know, I would go down to practice, I would do a little reading. In my meantime, I would call home, you know. Cause they weren't there for, you know, you couldn't. Family couldn't come for like, the first six to eight weeks. And then at night, I would open up a bottle of wine, man. Yes. That was it.
- [28:22]
A
It's like castaway vibes.
- [28:23]
B
But it was like, castaway vibes. Yeah, man. And then it got to a point where they started allowing us to get out of the rooms. You were really, at one point, you were only really supposed to have, like, one or two guests in your room, like your teammates. We kind of broke the rule one time and, like, squads up in there. Yeah, we just squad in everybody's room and, like, played cards. And it was one thing about it. It was definitely a crazy bonding experience because it was just us, you know, like, even when you travel on the road during the finals or during the playoffs, you don't really go to each other's rooms too much. Everyone has their regiment, whatever the case may be. But in the bubble, you had no choice. It was literally just us it was you and your teammates and the coaching staff was there. It's like, bro, can I, like, yo, pull up, bro. Like, yeah, come have a glass of wine again.
- [29:09]
A
We gotta, like, do something.
- [29:11]
B
Like, we gotta do something. Like, I don't. My kids are not here. My wife is not here. Like, bro, like, just, you know, I'm about to pull up to your room. What you doing? Nothing. Same thing I did yesterday. Same thing. So it was. It was a mental. Mental, mental. Oh, man. That if you, if you, if you couldn't. If you couldn't sustain your focus and. And your mental waiver a little bit, then the bubble was definitely not for you. It was not for you.
- [29:36]
A
Well, it's a king's flex to have a wine cellar in the bubble, so kudos to you. Kudos to you for that.
- [29:42]
B
I needed it.
- [29:44]
A
That I'd have been right there with you.
- [29:46]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [29:54]
A
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- [31:25]
B
You can.
- [31:27]
A
It's like this little. Although the bubble must have been drove you crazy in some ways, it's like what an incredible place for like, you to do everything you can to prepare, leave no stone unturned for the young guys to develop. Like, you're just there to hoop. Some people say it's like the purest form of basketball, being in the bubble, like this experiment. And then others like, oh, it's not real at the end of the day. Like, yeah, you're human beings competing. It doesn't matter if you're competing on the moon or in the bubble.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah, for sure. And I believe it's. Yeah, like I, I agree with a lot of people say when it's the purest form of hoops, like it was just, it was strictly basketball. Like it is. No, you know, we're all like, you know, have the ability to do whatever we want in life. You know, we've made a bunch of money, we have all the access, you know, that was, that's gone in the bubble. You can't just, you know, oh, I'm about to go to a restaurant or I'm about to do this or I have this. You can't do none of that. Like, everything in the bubble was strictly about basketball. And obviously we was there, you know, you know, talking about a lot of the off the court things that was going on, you know, social injustice and the police brutality and stuff, all that rightfully so. But when the basketball portion was the, the, the focus, you know, that's all it was. Like, you know, so you could go downstairs, you know, you know, you had an opportunity to go downstairs and just work on your game or, you know, they, they made these, you know, they brought, you know, weight rooms in where you can go just be in a weight room or if you want a cold to cold plunges like you could. But it was strictly, strictly basketball. And it was all about like, of all my championships, I've won that level of focus. Like, if, how, how long can you maintain your focus in order to get the job done? Because you have all the, you have all the reasons if you want to, to get out of focus because you're so accustomed to a certain lifestyle that you like, the hell with this. Like, I don't want to do this. Like, why am I here? Like, I don't want to be a part of this. Like, this is not what, you know, I can't get a certain meal, I can't do this. I can't see my family. I can't lock in on, like, and you can very easily get out of why you're there. And that, that wasn't once I got there. Once I got there and I knew the team that we had and I knew we was capable of, once I locked in, I was like, it's. It's survival of the fittest right now. Like, and. And I'm. And I'm locking in, and let's hit it. Let's hit it.
- [34:00]
A
That's what I was gonna. That's what. Where it led me was like, you have everything right there. You have no choice, right? Like, I got. Like you said, you got the cold tubs and hot tubs and compression units. You got a court, you got a weight room. Like, you just have to go downstairs. You don't have to get in the car. You don't have to do anything, right? So you have this all access, easy access, ability to maximize basketball. Other than, obviously, like you said, like, maybe not all the produce, but like, you. You day. The. The challenge comes in that 96 days.
- [34:33]
B
So, yeah, man, you.
- [34:35]
A
You have it all in front of you, but the mental approach, the toughness, the resilience, maybe talk a little bit about the days when you'd had enough.
- [34:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, that. It crosses your mind every day, Steve. I'm not even, you know, maybe it cross your mind every day because you're like, this is. This is what we. Like, what are we doing? Like, what are we. What are we really? How am I at this point? Like. Like, my wife is not there. My kids are not there. You know, FaceTime. Thank you. Steve Jobs late. Great. Rest his soul. But thank you. But, like, you know, you're not having that. You're not. You're not having that comfort zone, you know, so, you know, you're. You're. You're. You're going through the rest of the regular season, and once the postseason start, you know, we. We started out with. With Portland, you know, and then the second round was versus Houston, you know, and then the Western finals was vers. Denver, you know, and it gets to a point as you keep advancing, you're like. Like, we're here, y' all. Yeah, we're here. The games are gonna keep going. We're here, and we're playing good basketball. What the fuck else are we all gonna do? You're gonna go home, and by the way, the world is still in quarantine. It's like, it's not like we can go home and now all of a sudden, you can just go start doing things. So why not accomplish something that we all have been wanting to do before the shutdown anyways?
- [35:55]
A
Great point.
- [35:55]
B
You know? Okay, you gonna go home you'll be in your home. Yes. You get to see your family. You get to see your kids. You know that's there. You know that's in the home. Okay. Yes, I can attest to that. I agree. But we're here, and we have a great team, and there's a Larry o' Brien trophy to be won, and we have the ability to do it. Why not fucking do it? Like, let's do it. I know this is not what we're accustomed to. I agree. And it plays with my mind, too. Every day you wake up and it's the same, same, same, same thing. But listen, we're here. You lock in, man. Let's go get it done. And then when we get it done, we can go home and sit in the house and do nothing, but let's go get it done. That was my mindset.
- [36:39]
A
Yeah. And obviously, it shows that you persevered. You guys got over the line. Not all teams did. Did it also give you life in a weird way? I don't. Like, not every team went to the bubble, did they?
- [36:50]
B
No, not every team went to the bubble.
- [36:52]
A
So you start out with, you know, whatever. Not the whole league. You start out with most, then you get to the playoffs, teams go home. Then after the first round, teams go home.
- [37:01]
B
Right.
- [37:02]
A
So, like, did it give you life almost as, like, Survivor, like, teams are heading home.
- [37:06]
B
That point was really cool.
- [37:08]
A
Yeah.
- [37:08]
B
That you just, like, kick someone off. Yeah. Like, if you win now, they. You kick someone off the island. And now the. You know, it feels like the air is getting a little bit more clearer. You know, you.
- [37:19]
A
You.
- [37:19]
B
You know, less guys is there to pollute the air or whatever.
- [37:22]
A
I don't have to his ass in the elevator.
- [37:24]
B
Right. I don't have to see him no more. So they, like, had, like, three different areas. Like, I think the teams that were ranked higher got to stay in certain hotels, and then the teams that were ranked kind of lower stayed in, like, these casitas. That was Hunger Games. Yeah, it was like Hunger Games for real, you know, so they had, like, this whole community, and, like. And if you stayed in the hotel, you were not allowed to go over to where they were staying at, like, because they had their own setup as far as, you know, getting tested every morning, whatever the case may be. But, yeah, as you play teams, you know, and you beat them, like, you know, they got it. They basically was, like, off the island. So it became, like, a pride thing. Like, he was like, let's get them off the island. Like, let's get them out of here. So it's just us, you know, and it definitely gave you a sense of pride, for sure.
- [38:11]
A
And then winning it, like, what does it look like? You win a championship in the bubble, and then you go back to the hotel and you throw a party. Like, what was that? Like, the one team goes home and cries in their room. The other team, like, has a party in the bubble.
- [38:24]
B
Like, oh, my goodness. Yeah. Like, we, we, we. Yeah, we won it. And, yeah, we went back to the room. I started packing, which was very different. I went back to my room. I went back to my room and started packing. My. Like, I started throwing this stuff. I was like, let me get some. Yeah, I can't wait to get the hell out of here. And then, like, they had the little after party downstairs at the little outdoor place, and we all went there and celebrated with the family and. And had drinks and it was. But it was fun. Like, you got an opportunity to finally see your family. Everybody was excited and happy and shit. We had won a championship. So I didn't take that for granted. That was an amazing feat. But I was like, I'm ready to get the hell out of here. It's been 96 days. I cannot wait to get home. Oh, my goodness.
- [39:09]
A
But in a way, like, that celebration will be like, obviously, you have a celebration in Miami or Cleveland, it's going to be off the charts, going to be exciting. Like, the city's there, but there must be something special about. It's just us. There's no. The extended families and friends in the city and the, you know, it's just you guys spending that great time together.
- [39:34]
B
Yeah. Because we had built that time that, you know, like you said, you know, that was a combination of 96 days with just us, you know, and. And to be able to, you know, last and finish it with the Larry o' Brien trophy. Like, you had a sense of, like, you know, sentiment. Like, you was like, oh, shit. This is very, like. Like, you know, you saw 80 crying. You know, you saw 80 crying when we won it, you know, and is.
- [39:59]
A
He crying because he won, because he didn't go home or because he's like, I think this is enough. I gotta get that.
- [40:04]
B
Oh, my God. It was like. It was probably emotions of all of them. Like, everything. Like, everyone's excitement was about all of it, you know, so. But it was definitely pretty cool, man. And it's something, obviously, I will never forget, you know, being a part of the bubble, us winning it there, you know, and just being with that group of guys, you know, for that, for that amount of time, it was. It's a very prideful thing, for sure.
- [40:25]
A
Well, thanks for sharing that because honestly, I can't imagine what that would be like.
- [40:29]
B
Like. Yeah, and nobody can, man. It's almost like you had to be there. Like, I don't think people. People that. You can't fathom what that looks like unless you've been there, man. It was like. It was some different. It was some different. That's for sure.
- [40:43]
A
That's amazing.
- [40:52]
B
Ron.
- [40:52]
C
You know what? Somebody told me that was there a league person. He said you made. Made it such a point to be so kind to all the media people, all the hotel staff, whatever that they were like. I think he kind of created home court advantage for himself. Everybody there in the final was going for you. He was like. We were all like. There was nobody.
- [41:14]
B
Everybody was. Well, I mean, I would. I would like to say I take credit for creat a home court advantage, but also I cannot not take credit. I would just take. My mom raised me a certain way to just to be kind to people, man, no matter the circumstances that you is so.
- [41:30]
A
And also you got to run into those people every day for 96 days.
- [41:33]
B
Yes, for sure. And I'm, you know, ain't no telling what I could do to my food that I would like to eat, so. But it was great, man. It was a great experience. It was challenging. It was one of the greatest, most fucked up experiences in my life. I'll just say that.
- [41:48]
A
That's the title of the episode. Y thanks for watching Mind the game. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe for more content.