LeBron on His Lakers Outlook, Adapting to Alphas and Skinny Luka

Summary

Mind the Game: "LeBron on His Lakers Outlook, Adapting to Alphas and Skinny Luka"

Podcast: Mind the Game | Host: UNINTERRUPTED & Wondery
Episode Date: October 8, 2025
Hosts: LeBron James & Steve Nash

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Episode Overview

LeBron James and Steve Nash kick off Season 3 of "Mind the Game" with a dense, insightful discussion centered on the evolution of NBA offenses, the physical and mental demands of longevity, techniques for adapting to different star teammates, and the nuances of building winning team basketball in the modern game. They dig deep into the X's and O's, comparisons between eras, adapting to new teammates, and reflect on 'blender' offenses while celebrating the emergence of players like "skinny" Luka Doncic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What If: LeBron & Nash in Their Primes (01:06 – 03:49)

• The hosts playfully imagine if they’d been able to share the court as teammates, breaking down potential offensive actions they would run together.
  • Focus on two-man game at the nail, flip screens, ghost screens, drag and clear-side actions, creating dynamic reads out of the Iverson set.
  • LeBron: “You know what I thought would be fun? What would we run if we played together?” (01:06)
• Emphasis on quick offensive actions, floor spacing, and maximizing options with shooters and slashers.
• Steve Nash on LeBron: “How you gonna leave a guy that’s 50, 40, 90. That’s impossible.” (03:43)

Longevity & Athlete Adaptation (04:14 – 08:45)

• Both reflect on careers into their 40s. Nash discusses minimizing summer on-court time to preserve the body for season:
  • “Trying to stay off the court as much as possible…you want to kind of build up every month.” (04:37)
• Nash shares his new passion for golf and compares its mental challenge to basketball mechanics.
  • “It is like, the most complicated mind fuck…just you versus the greens.” (05:30)
  • Both note similarities between golf’s rhythm/mechanics and a basketball shot.
• LeBron discusses learning to pace himself, leveraging star teammates like Luka Doncic to manage his workload and stay effective through the season.
  • “You don’t necessarily have to start the season fast…you have to be great in the second half.” (08:24)
  • Nash concurs, appreciating the presence of dynamic complementary pieces like Luka, Marcus Smart, Rui Hachimura, and Jarred Vanderbilt (08:45).

Adapting to Star Teammates & Role Evolution (09:30 – 13:27)

• LeBron reflects on adjusting his game:
  • Cleveland: primary playmaker.
  • Miami: adapting alongside Dwyane Wade.
  • Later: learning to screen, cut, and operate with other creators like Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis.
  • LeBron: “How could I still be effective…but not have the ball in my hand? My usage rate goes down.” (10:03)
  • Notes necessity of inverting offensive roles, e.g., wings screening for bigs with AD.
  • Credits Coach Erik Spoelstra for helping engineer complementary systems.
• Nash relates, pointing to changes in era—from “your turn, my turn” structures to today’s more randomized, multi-action offenses.
• Discussion of how the personnel shift allows for more players who can “dribble, pass, shoot,” and reflects on rare shooting bigs in their era like Channing Frye and Chris Bosh (14:23).

Tactical Evolution: The Role of the Dunker & Positionless Offenses (13:27 – 17:43)

• The dunker spot evolves—no longer just a place to "hide" non-shooters.
  • Now, even those players must roll, cut, or play DHO; some teams use small guards in the dunker for tactical advantage.
  • Nash: “The dunker is definitely, you know, not as common, but a lot of the smart teams are still using it…with smalls.” (15:57)
• Example: Jrue Holiday’s role as dunker with Boston, his strength vs. smaller guards for offensive rebounds.
  • LeBron: “I think he was great at just bullying this guy and being an offensive reaction rebounder.” (16:52)
• The difficulty of taking charges today with spread, fast offenses and smaller low men.

Paint Touches, Three-Point Variance, and Quality Offense (17:43 – 19:30)

• Discussion on the continuing rise of three-point attempts and how the best teams still value paint touches and layups.
  • Nash: “There’s no better shot than a wide open layup or a free throw…it's demoralizing for a defense.” (17:43)
• LeBron: “That’s the difference often between the good and the bad teams…how many times can you touch the paint and create threes rather than let’s get a 3 up because they’re better than us.” (18:17)
• Emphasize the value of threes generated from interior actions over “settled” threes.

"Skinny Luka": Physical Transformation and Recovery (20:17 – 22:26)

• Both marvel at Luka Doncic’s offseason physical transformation.
  • LeBron and Nash praise his increased dynamism and potential for better game-to-game recovery with improved conditioning.
  • Nash: “When your body is in top tier shape…it’s going to be so beneficial to your recovery process and your energy.” (21:41)
  • LeBron: "That's a heck of a commitment…to say I'm gonna spend six, eight weeks really getting in top shape. That shows he cares." (22:08)
• Reflection on international basketball and Dennis Schroder’s Hall of Fame-caliber FIBA résumé (22:44–23:38).
  • LeBron: “He was basically MVP of the World Championships, MVP of the Euros…if that's not a FIBA Hall of Famer…”

International Players & Injuries—Era and Physical Toll (23:51 – 28:28)

• Discussion on other international standouts (Sengun, Fred VanVleet) and injuries, lamenting the uptick and the relationship to the pace-and-space era.
  • Increased running, more possessions, more miles—a lot more wear and tear.
  • "If you play all 82 … it’s a marathon. The game has gotten stretched…more space…more possessions." (27:27)
• LeBron: “I do believe…82 games is too many.” (27:18)

Offense: Leveraging Horns and Blender Actions (30:55 – 36:48)

• LeBron recalls classic Cleveland and Denver actions (elbow sets, horns, DHO).
  • Lakers and other modern teams use variations, blending early pace with meticulously executed half-court sets.
  • LeBron: “When you need baskets, how important is it to have this in your bag?” (32:55)
  • Nash stresses the need to “be able to execute in the half court no matter what” (33:12) and describes Lakers’ strategic options with their multi-skilled personnel.
  • Austin Reaves’ versatility as a key cog.
• Discussion of offensive flexibility, manipulating matchups, and spacing when deploying non-shooters (34:48). Nash: “There’s ways…to still be able to space and make you pay.”

Philosophy: “0.5” Decision-Making & the Beautiful Game (36:37 – 43:32)

• Deep dive into the value of pace within the half-court—how the “0.5” philosophy (make a decision within half a second) from the Spurs changed the NBA.
  • Nash: “Think about the Spurs teams…they were generational before their times…let’s get into our actions, get the ball moving.” (37:02)
  • LeBron: “This works because five guys are willing to make quick decisions…a great lesson for young players.” (38:23)
  • LeBron and Nash lament the “security” of having the ball in one creator’s hands but recognize effective offenses need layers and collective action.
• Transitioning to an offense where multiple “dominoes” can attack—blender basketball is the future.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Golf’s Difficulty:
  • Steve Nash (05:30): “It is like, the most complicated mind fuck...just you versus the greens.”
• On Luka’s Physical Transformation:
  • Steve Nash (21:41): “When your body is in top tier shape… it's going to be so beneficial to your recovery process and your energy.”
  • LeBron (22:08): “That's a heck of a commitment… That shows he cares. That shows he wants this team to be great.”
• On Adaptability:
  • LeBron (10:03): “How could I still be effective…but not have the ball in my hand? My usage rate goes down.”
• On Offensive Change Across Eras:
  • Steve Nash (14:23): “They were rarities… Now, you look at finals where you had Chet and Miles Turner and those guys, those guys are spaced to the three-point line.”
• On the Changing Dunker Spot:
  • Steve Nash (15:57): “The dunker is definitely…not as common, but a lot of the smart teams are still using it...with smalls.”
• On the Spurs Influence:
  • Steve Nash (37:02): “Think about the Spurs teams… they were generational before their times… a lot of it came from the European scouts.”
• On “Blender” Basketball:
  • LeBron (43:20): “That's one of the biggest emergencies that we're gonna...see even more and more and more, just how important blenders got...just the first domino and having other guys that can attack a closeout make a play. Beautiful basketball.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:06–03:49 – Imagining LeBron & Nash as prime teammates
• 04:14–05:29 – Aging, summer routines, Nash on golf
• 08:24–09:30 – Adapting to playing with other stars, pacing a season
• 10:03–13:27 – LeBron on changing roles (Miami/Cleveland/Lakers)
• 14:23–17:43 – Tactical personnel shifts, dunker spot evolution
• 20:17–22:26 – “Skinny Luka” and the impact of offseason fitness
• 22:44–23:38 – Dennis Schroder: International legacy
• 27:18–28:28 – 82 games, injury risk, science vs. demands
• 30:55–36:48 – X's & O's: Elbow, horns, DHO action and adjustments
• 36:37–43:32 – Team offense philosophy, 0.5 decision making, the “beautiful game”

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Summary & Takeaways

This episode offers a masterclass in basketball thinking, with LeBron and Nash providing a blend of war stories, technical strategy, and macro-level philosophy. Whether breaking down horns sets, celebrating Luka's transformation, or explaining how “blender” basketball elevates a team, the hosts speak candidly and authoritatively to players and fans alike. They reinforce that successful NBA evolution depends not just on generational talent, but true adaptability, the willingness to cede control, and a deep understanding of how to create advantages—together.

Transcript

[LeBron James]

Coming up on this episode of Mind the Game.

[Steve Nash]

Another stuff I like about Iverson too is like you said, you like to screen. So you here and jd unfortunately, we got him bringing the ball up. We don't. Depending on who's guarding him. Depending on who's guarding. Depending on who's guarding him. Actually wanted to challenge the mind with something else. And I actually picked up golf a little bit.

[LeBron James]

Mike d' Antoni used to say to us when we got tired, you guys wanna. You tired? Oh, you wanna go and get in a wrestling match with these guys? No. You wanna just run up and down and get them tired? I feel like the dunker is going away a little bit. We used to try to hide a non shooter in the dunker, and now it's either like he's gotta be in the action rolling, or we'll even space him and he'll be a cutter.

[Steve Nash]

A lot of the smart teams are still using it, but they're using it.

[LeBron James]

With Smalls moving along to skinny. Luca.

[Steve Nash]

Audio's good. Okay. All go silent.

[Producer Jason]

Excellent. Ryan Games Season 3.

[Steve Nash]

We are here.

[LeBron James]

You know what I thought would be fun? What would we run if we played together? In our primes, we had some common teammates.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

Shannon Markief, Jared Dudley. Yeah, the five of us.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah. I mean, I mean, I think the one thing that comes to mind, first thing is like, you know, a two man game. Me at the nail, you know, you handling, you tell me which side. Boom, flip screen. You know, I could hip tap and go. I can, I can ghost out of it. I can hold the screen, let you get back snaking right, you know, pocket. We can, we can play the side, you know, you coming down and transition. And I'm trailing early drag, clear side. You know, once I hit. Once you hit me in the pocket. Now it's a numbers game and we got all those guys, weak side, a bunch of shooters, maybe one slashing from the, from the slot.

[LeBron James]

What about this, Pepe? You know I got the ball on top. Yep, we got you, Markief Channing. J.D. no offense, J.D. but we're clear.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, we're gonna clear him out.

[LeBron James]

All right. Yeah, Little Iverson Cut.

[Steve Nash]

LeBron.

[LeBron James]

I follow you a little bit right when he gets here. We've all seen this play before. Ikeef Channing's guys gotta stay tight on Channing.

[Steve Nash]

Got to. And if he tracks me to the rim, then Shannon's popping back and it's a bang, bang three.

[LeBron James]

He's not gonna want you to get a clean Catch, Bam, bam, layup city. If not, duck in and play. Out of that, what else do you like out of the Iverson stuff?

[Steve Nash]

I mean, listen, I like another stuff I like out of Iverson too is like you said you like to screen. So you know, we can have you with the. Well now let's put you here so you here. You know, JD unfortunately we got him bringing the ball up. We don't depending on who's guarding him. Depending on who's depending on who's guarding him. C Fry and Markief. So now we're going to send him through. So obviously we got does with the ball. We're going to send Keith through this time and we're going to do the same Iverson over the top, but instead of the pass going to you, Duds is going to hit me. Oh, sorry.

[LeBron James]

We get it.

[Steve Nash]

Dud's gonna hit me with the ball, he's gonna slide away. Channing's gonna set a little screen for you. And now we running 4, 1, 31 or whatever, however we want to call it. Side. Pick a roll. I'm coming off depending on how your guy be hard hedges. That's an easy pop for you. You know, what is the point guard gonna do? Like, is he gonna blitz it? Is he gonna hard hedge? He can't drop if he drops. It gives you too much space. It gives me too much Runway. So, you know, we got a lot that' not to.

[LeBron James]

Not to brag, but they didn't like to leave my body.

[Steve Nash]

It's impossible to leave your body. How you gonna leave a guy that's 50, 40, 90. That's impossible. You can't leave him.

[LeBron James]

We could have had a lot of fun. But you know, you're right though. Like it like drawing up different plays. You know, you can do that stuff in atos, but really it's, it's. How quickly can we get down the floor, get space, get into two man action. Remember early in my career we did a lot of step ups. Just guy coming out of the corner, step up, get the switch, go to work, get you in the post, get downhill, be a lot of fun. It's too bad my back is broke.

[Steve Nash]

You paid your dues. You paid your dues.

[LeBron James]

Paid a couple.

[Steve Nash]

Got a lot of great memories and a lot of great moments.

[LeBron James]

That's right.

[Steve Nash]

The back held up. Back held up long enough.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, I did. I got lucky. Actually, you know, thinking about it, we both got to play to 40. You're still going?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, still going.

[LeBron James]

How was the summer? Like what, what did you do different this summer. We know how hard you've worked. What did you think? Like, what's your approach to summer at 40?

[Steve Nash]

Trying to stay off the court as much as possible.

[LeBron James]

Save it all?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to save it all, you know, and. Cause I know, you know, once the season started, obviously, it's a gauntlet. It's a marathon. You want to kind of build up every month, you know, get stronger every month. So I try to stay off the court as much as possible. I actually wanted to challenge the mind with something else, and I actually picked up golf a little bit.

[LeBron James]

Okay.

[Steve Nash]

You know, and obviously, the biggest thing with golf is, like, this is the first time I've played an individual sport, you know, so there's no, like, you know, trying to make sure the teammate is in the right spot, or I need my teammate to make this right play, or he needs me to make the right play in order for us to win. It's me versus each hole, and it is like, the most complicated mind fuck.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. Right?

[Steve Nash]

Ever. You know, so it's just you versus the greens. And I love that aspect of, like, something that's so uncomfortable and so hard. Like, I love that.

[LeBron James]

So, like, are you in now?

[Steve Nash]

I'm playing.

[LeBron James]

I can see myself doing this for the next 20, 30 years.

[Steve Nash]

Oh, yeah, the bug's real. I've heard about the bug for so many years, and I was like, well, it's not gonna be me. I don't even.

[LeBron James]

I don't like golf at all.

[Steve Nash]

Who wants to be outside all day walking around, carting around like. No, it's real. I am into it. Like, my algorithm, on my phone, on social media. Every other post or every other video is some type of golf video now.

[LeBron James]

Swing mechanics.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, swing mechanics. You know, par fours, par fives. The best golf courses in America, the best golf courses in the world. Like, what should you not do? What should you do to, you know, John Daly swing? Everybody stay away from it. He's one of a kind.

[LeBron James]

Like, it's like, you're getting the whole education.

[Steve Nash]

I'm getting the whole education.

[LeBron James]

And Are you Simulator. Are you going out to the course?

[Steve Nash]

I'm going out to the course right now. Yeah. I'm going out to the course. But I do have a simulator being put into the house very soon.

[LeBron James]

See, like, with me having to chase my kids around, I don't. I can't fit golfing.

[Steve Nash]

I gotta get you. I'm get you out there.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, let's go.

[Steve Nash]

I'm gonna come down the sky no more. You're gonna be good. I played as an adult as of July 2, but that's the hardest year.

[LeBron James]

That's the hardest thing to do.

[Steve Nash]

Right.

[LeBron James]

Like, you know what it's like, languages, whatever. As a kid, you learn stuff, you get a little bit of a feeling for the rhythm. But it is interesting. There are similarities to shooting, right? Mechanics, right balance, footwork, rhythm, all that stuff.

[Steve Nash]

Rhythms, hips.

[LeBron James]

It's also you found already, like, it's not how hard you swing, especially as you're learning. Right. So many things can go wrong. Same with shooting, right? Like, you start trying to do too much, throws it out. That's cool, man.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, so that's what I kind of did. I spent a lot of time with the family, played a lot of golf, you know, obviously, working my body all the time. Stayed in the weight rooms, you know, Pilates, yoga, all that type of stuff. I did touch the court, obviously. You know, I wanted to see the ball. Yeah. Keep my rhythm, keep my handle, see the ball go through the rim. But, yeah, I just wanted to kind of save it, knowing how much of a gauntlet it's going to be this year. Another season of, you know, ups and downs and, you know, the whole, you know, just a course of an NBA season. We know how it goes.

[LeBron James]

Did you change your approach on the physical stuff at all or tweak it or have a different, like, feel for it?

[Steve Nash]

No, it's kind of basically the same for me. You know, I've kind of found a rhythm over the last few years of what works for me, you know, and what, you know, what doesn't work for me. But, like, yeah, I kind of got a good rhythm on, you know, what needs to be done, you know, and obviously, you know, you know, you have injuries throughout the course of the season, and I'm still kind of recovering from it, things of that nature. And, I mean, we both know as you get a little older, the injuries kind of decide they don't want to recover as fast as, you know, as that. But that's all part of the process. And that's okay with me.

[LeBron James]

Sure. You know what's nice about it, you know, you're still playing at an all NBA level, but you have Luka, so you don't. You don't necessarily have to, like, start the season fast. Like, you have to be great in the second half of the season. So trying to, like, obviously you want to be out there. You're always competitive, but that's got to be nice a little bit to be like, I'm going to be fine.

[Steve Nash]

No, absolutely. Absolutely. When you have a dynamic, transcendent player like Luka, when you have a unbelievable complimentary player in ar, you know, and some of the vets we got, you know, bringing in Marcus Smart, you know, championship pedigree guy, bringing in, you know, da been to the finals as well in Phoenix, you know, and some of the other guys, we have Rui another year under his belt. Vando is back healthy, you know, so, you know, we look forward to what we can accomplish. And like you said, you know, me being 40, on the brink of 41, I don't have to rush myself to get to 100% in October and November and things, you know, I think every month will ramp up, but I'm happy with where I am right now.

[LeBron James]

Maybe tell me a little bit, like, I remember my career, you have to adapt to different teammates. Playing with Dirk, you know, I did a lot of screening for Dirk. We did a lot of pick and pop action. We did a lot of playing off the elbow, hit the elbow, go down and get him or Finn, and he's got the ball or doesn't. Then I go play with Amari.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know, now he's all out. Assault and transition, hard diver, able to, you know, get on top of the rim. So you have to adapt, right? A little bit. How's that adaptation been for you? Maybe, like, in the context of D. Wade?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

Kyrie and Kevin.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, like you just said, like, you know, my first seven years in Cleveland, I did the majority of the ball handling, you know, and we had a couple guys that came in throughout the course of those seven years that, you know, helped me a lot with the ball handling, but not as much, you know, so I was the playmaker, I was the decision maker. You know, I made all the plays with the ball in my hand and, you know, got the ball to the guys in the right spots. But when I made the transition to Miami, you know, I knew I was going down there and I knew I had to adapt my game because I was also going to a team where a guy who also handles the ball and made the plays and things of that nature in D. Wade. So, you know, how could I still be effective, you know, with our offense, with everything, but not have the ball in my hand? My usage rate goes down. So, you know, me trailing in transition and allowing D. Wade to have a clear side, and when the defense kind of stop him, okay, boom, right into a drag screen, right into a ghost screen, whatever the case may be. And the Same with Rio when Rio was handling the ball or when Norris Cole was handling the ball. Now I can get the defender off of them by setting a nice, solid screen.

[LeBron James]

They don't wanna leave you.

[Steve Nash]

They're not gonna leave me. So they can get into the pain and be able to play the four on three, you know, you know, just adapting to that and then going back to Cleveland, you know, Kyrie, another guy who, you know, obviously, we know his majesty with the ball, like, he's a magician with the ball. So, you know, how can I be effective with him with the ball in his hand? And the good thing that I had already got the experience in Miami. It made it so easy for me when I went to Cleveland and played with him. So it was kind of the same thing, you know, allowing Kyrie to kind of do his dance. Okay, defense is at bay. The defense is flattened out. Okay, let's have. What can we get to right now? Quick drag, quick go screen, quick flip screen. You know, things of that nature. So, you know, and then I come here, and you have a dynamic guy like AD who could rebound the ball at 6, 11, 7 foot and then push the ball. So start doing inverter screens. You know, you don't see many wings setting screens for the bigs, you know, so you start doing invert screens. And what. There's not many fives or many fours that can navigate getting a screen set on them, so they are super confused and allowing AD to work his magic, too. So, you know, adapting, you know, to, you know, to whatever teammate and whatever the team needs is something that I think a lot of guys should be able to do. And sometimes it's challenging for you, especially if you're a guy who high school and college or wherever you play, you always had the ball in your hand. Okay, now, but we have other guys who always had the ball in their hand, too. So how can we make the most out of our team? So, yeah, it's been pretty seamless for me once. Obviously, I learned it and got used to it. And I think I give a lot of credit to SPO and the coaches that have down there in Miami trying to figure out how we all can be complementary to each other.

[LeBron James]

That was a process.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

It must have been uncomfortable at first.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

Do you think, like, the eras also have made that different? And let me explain, like, it feels like that era, it felt a little more like your turn, my turn. Not that that's what you were doing, but because it was a more. We get to this Action. And he goes. Now it's more random. It's more second action, third action. Make the deep. Get into blender. First domino. Do you feel like I still remember you cutting? I still remember you screening, but it was a lot more like when it's D. Wade's, you gotta be spaced. Right now it feels like, no, you have to be ready to cut, to play second side to screen, to play the short role. Do you feel like that's.

[Steve Nash]

I think that. I think the personnel of teams have changed as well. You know, I mean, we look at it last year, we discussed it in one of our previous episodes about just like OKC in Indiana and the guys that they're putting on the floor, Pretty much everybody on the floor can dribble past shoot. You know, if you don't have the shot, get into a dribble, drag or get into a dribble, get into the lane. Okay, now how can we get the defense shifted? You know, back in our era, you know, you had one or two guys, maybe three guys max, that could dribble the ball, but you had other guys that their only job was the space. You know, the other guys just stay in the dunker. You know, you had a big. That was okay, stay in the dunker. You know, stay outside the Karl Malone area. So if we drive big helps up, you drop it off to him. So you look at the finals where you had, you know, Chet and you had Miles Turner and you had those guys, those guys are spaced to the three point line, you know. You know, back in our era, you might have had one guy. One guy, you know, like you mentioned Channing Frye, you know, Chris Bosh, when.

[LeBron James]

He moved to the front, they were rarities.

[Steve Nash]

They were rarities. They were rarities. But most of the time it was, you know, for us, Joey Anthony, you know, and, you know, UD at that time wasn't space to the three. And, you know, Chris Birdman Anderson, he wasn't space to the three in Miami. It was like, we got you guys in a dunker, boom. Guy helps up, you ready for a lob or a dish off. So, you know, I think that the personnel and how the game is played now, a lot of pace, a lot of space, and SPO taught us that. A lot like pace and space, you know, I remember after our year when we lost to Dallas, he went to Oregon, you know, and sat with Chip Kelly. And that was their whole thing, you know, in Oregon football. Pace and space. You know, pace and space. Get up to the line. We won One play. Get to the line. Let's go. We're gonna make the defense real tired. Get to the line, get to the sets. I'm gonna give you two or three plays in advance. So we know, boom, we run this play. Second play, we already know where we going. Let's get to the line. By the time the fourth quarter come, everybody's tired. You know, so you know, the personnel and how teams play, you know, has definitely changed. I look at Atlanta now, you know, you look at like Trae Young and Richard Shay, you know, and Jalen Johnson, you know, and, and now Porzingis. Now I'm at the five. You know, they're gonna, you know, Dyson, Dan, they're gonna spread you all the way out. So you know, that's, that's this, that's just the personnel and the name of the game now.

[LeBron James]

And to that, to that comment, like, I feel like the dunker is going away a little bit, Right. Like we used to try to hide a non shooter in the dunker. Now it's either like he's got to be in the action rolling or we'll even space him and he'll be a cutter or he'll be an outlet and play dho. Do you feel that?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah. Or you can shifting. Yeah, I do, I do. The dunker is definitely, you know, not as common, but a lot of the smart teams are still using it. But they're using it with smalls, right? Yes, they're using it with smalls. You look at Boston when they were making their championship runs, you saw Jrue Holiday there. He was space, okay. The ball would get thrown back to pro seeing his or Al Horford, Jrue was slot cut. But instead of him going all the way out to the three point line, he was staying at dunker sometimes. And just like how I just mentioned with the five trying to navigate getting a screen set on him. A lot of X1s and X2s don't know how to trap the box or don't want to trap the box when a big or a wing is rolling. And he's a smaller guy. So you have a guy like Jrue Holiday that can play down there, that can finish with both hands, can be a threat down there. It definitely helps your offense out too.

[LeBron James]

You know what Drew was also great at, especially if he had a smaller guard. If he got the matchup with the point guard, someone who's physically stronger than one. Offensive rebounding.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know, I think he was great at getting just bullying this guy and being an offensive Reaction rebounder, but it also puts the smallest player as the low man. So now if you're getting downhill, you got a point guard coming over instead of Porzingis because Porzingis is stretched to three. So I think it messes with.

[Steve Nash]

And if it's not Kyle Lowry or Jalen Brunson, those guys are not taking charges. And they're going to get out of the way. Yeah, they're going to get out of the way.

[LeBron James]

And it's hard in our league, I think harder in our league with the spacing sometimes to take a charge on a guy who gets downhill clean. You know, they're able to get around and make plays or, you know, you're caught in between because we're spread so far, you know that ball's going out your rotation so far.

[Steve Nash]

So. Yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

I think that gets back to why some teams are packing the pain early. We don't want you to even get in then we're not. Then, you know, yeah, we're have to X out or we're going to have to make a long close up, but we don't have to get in a full rotation all the time. So. Yeah, that's a great point when you put that smaller guy.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, I understand that the number of threes have continued to rise and rise and Rise. 30 plus 40 plus some couple teams, even 50 plus a game. But there's no better shot than a wide open layup or a free throw. The percentages will speak for itself. So if you can, if you're able to crack those scenes and get into the lane, it's demoralizing for a defense as well. If you're just like running and you're getting layup after layup after layup or you're just sitting at the free throw line, you know, it's demoralizing for a team. So that is very still important.

[LeBron James]

It's not the law, but I feel like that's the difference often between the good and the bad teams. The bad teams take a lot of threes because it gives them a variance opportunity Right. Where they can beat a better team. Because however, the quality of those threes, that's why maybe they're not as good a team, is how many times can you touch the paint and create threes rather than let's get a 3 up because they're better than us.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

I'm being a bit crass here, but it's real, right. You see that more teams that don't get to touch the paint get people in rotation. The American Express Platinum card is now better than ever. With updated benefits to help you unlock unforgettable experiences. You can access the largest global airport lounge network and global hotel program with a suite of benefits as compared to other credit card programs. Plus, with dining benefits at over 10,000 U.S. rESI restaurants and exclusive access to unique experiences worldwide, Platinum membership means you can turn ordinary into the extraordinary. There's nothing like having an escape from the airport crowds. And with Amex Platinum, you're able to gain access to their network of global airport lounges. For me, it's just great to get a quiet corner to do some work, to maybe chill out a little bit before I get home to the craziness. But obviously getting to a lounge in an airport just kind of makes the trip a little bit more seamless. With an array of premium travel, dining and entertainment benefits, all backed by American Express's award winning service, Platinum membership brings experiences to a whole new level. It's true what they say, there's nothing like Platinum terms. Apply. Learn [e-mail] withplatinum. Moving along to skinny Luca. He's a model. He's a model.

[Steve Nash]

He looks good, man.

[LeBron James]

Looks good.

[Steve Nash]

He looks good. He looks good.

[LeBron James]

You know, the great thing about seeing him in shape too is that that doesn't affect that in a sense he's functionally stronger.

[Steve Nash]

Right, right.

[LeBron James]

Because he's more dynamic.

[Steve Nash]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

And you know, like his XL D cells, when he's in great shape, you know, he doesn't look like one of these guys that's like the most athletic, explosive, but he moves really well for a 6, 8 dude. And the less weight he has, his ability to stop on a dime, his ability to change direction at that size and skill level, it's amazing. Have you seen already that movement?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure. I think the movement. I watched a lot of the Euro basket this summer too. I watched his team a lot, obviously, him being my teammate and him seeing how he can carry a Slovenian team to whatever heights. And he did. I mean, he was right there, you know, with Germany, you know, and the semis. But it just looks, you know, obviously a little bit quicker, you know, a little bit more functional. But I think, more importantly, I think what a lot of people will not see is the recovery now. I think when your body is in top tier shape and you feel so much better out, it's not the actual game. It's not like Luka's game is going to change.

[LeBron James]

It's not like he's still.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like he's not going to get 30, 40, 15 and 10, 12. Like, that's not going to change. But I think for him, personally, I think what's going to change for him, he's going to see how he wakes up the next day after three or four nights. He's going to be like, oh, man, knee doesn't bother. Yeah, yeah.

[LeBron James]

Like backs fall.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah. Like, because you. You've built this up, you built this body up, and now, you know, it's going to be so beneficial to you and your recovery process and your energy, you know, so I'm super duper proud of him. Obviously, he don't need to hear from me or hear. I mean, it's what he wanted to do for himself and that's the only thing that matters. So I need to get on his regimen a little bit now. I'm gonna take some tips from him.

[LeBron James]

That's a heck of a commitment.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure.

[LeBron James]

Because, like, you're already getting 30 and 10 or whatever to say I'm gonna spend six, eight weeks really getting in top shape. That's a commitment. That shows he cares. That shows he wants this team to be. Be. To be a great team. So I'm excited. I'm excited to see him move. Going back to Euro basket, you watched a lot of it.

[Steve Nash]

I watched a few games, like I said. I watched Slovenia a lot more than a lot of other teams. I did watch Germany shout out Dennis Schroeder, obviously, he's leading that squad. He's a good friend of mine. And him being mvp, the whole thing also, you know, sangoon and those guys, those.

[LeBron James]

Let me stop here with Schroeder. He's a Hall of Famer. Think about it. I mean, he was basically MVP of the World World Championships, MVP of the Euros, finalist or semi finalists in the Olympics. I mean, that's not a FIBA hall of Famer. I think that's a. Yeah, that's probably. What do you think?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of the stats as well, and a lot of the accomplishments as well this summer after, you know, Euro basket. I wouldn't. If it happens, I wouldn't be like, oh, my God, I'm so pro. No, he's putting the work, man.

[LeBron James]

Cause it's the totality people get in for. College careers.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure. High school.

[LeBron James]

So that is a part of the puzzle. I mean, pretty impressive. I mean, not that he's not a terrific NBA player, but he's not an all star, not been an all star. You know, you can see him playing at an all star level on certain nights.

[Steve Nash]

For sure. Right, for sure.

[LeBron James]

But the way he's been able to dominate the international game, and that's a.

[Steve Nash]

Big part of our game.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Steve Nash]

You know, international game is a big part of our game in the whole grand scheme of things. What they've been able to accomplish, what they've been able to do coming here to America and play in our league, and a lot of our guys go and play overseas as well. It's all totality.

[LeBron James]

So history of the game.

[Steve Nash]

Absolutely.

[LeBron James]

A lot of great history internationally. Sengun.

[Steve Nash]

Hell of a summer. Yeah, hell of a summer. Hell of a summer. I think he's gonna just ride that wave, you know, right to Houston and have a big year for them. Oh, man. My good guy Fred, man. Yeah, that sucks.

[LeBron James]

That sucks.

[Steve Nash]

That sucks. Speedy recovery, brother. Get back, man. Get healthy. Get back. That's gonna be a tough blow for Houston this year. Great. He's like the teammate. Great teammate.

[LeBron James]

Great player.

[Steve Nash]

Great player. He's like, he's the engine to any team that he's on, you know, and obviously, we saw what he was able to do. You know, you hear, we talk about Kawhi, you talk about, you know, Pascal and all those guys that they had, you know, Kyle, you know, but Fred was such a big piece of that, you know, big piece. Big.

[LeBron James]

You know, balls, absolutely.

[Steve Nash]

Steps up, makes big shots. And just like that, he's just even keel. His demeanor is always the same, and you need that throughout the course of the season. So. Composure, Speedy recovery, brother. Get back, man. Get healthy. Get back.

[LeBron James]

Jt, Tyrese, Dame, Fred. Yeah, it's, man, this is a part of the game.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah. What you hate.

[LeBron James]

What you hate, you know, like, it hates to come on our episode one and talk about, you know, injuries. It's just a part of the game. How much of it do you think is just the pace and space era still playing so many games?

[Steve Nash]

I mean, I don't know. I can't sit here and say that I have the direct answer to that. But, you know, we are, you know, at this point, you know, in the era that we're playing in, it's a lot more running, it's a lot more miles on the body. It's a lot more possessions, Possessions. Space, space, you know, so, you know, it could result in a lot more, you know, wear and tear on the body throughout the course of an 82 game season. And if you're one of those guys that like, to play or want to play. I mean, we all want to play all 82.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Steve Nash]

But, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer to it, but it's definitely different. I've lived and been a part of three or four different eras. You know, I came into the league, it was literally like, there was no pacing space.

[LeBron James]

Too big.

[Steve Nash]

It was too big. It was usually a point guard handling the ball. And it was a lot of, you know, eight guys pretty much in the paint all the time with floppy action, things of that nature. So, you know, and I moved into another area where we started to get a little bit more. More, you know, you kind of have a little bit more four out, one in, maybe three out, two in, maybe, you know, Phoenix or. Exactly, exactly. So, you know, you got to that era, and now it's kind of like another era where it's literally like, you got five out.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Steve Nash]

You know, we don't want anyone in the play.

[LeBron James]

So it's almost like the guy that can't shoot, that can play in our league, has to be special. Right. You just can't. You know, they gotta be special. Special in a way.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah. You have to be. You have to be T.J. mcConnell.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, TG.

[Steve Nash]

You have to be so, like, special like that.

[LeBron James]

He's Draymond. Or like Hartenstein.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah.

[LeBron James]

Great at the floater, great passer, great energy. Like, just different skill sets. You know, it's hard. Or you have to be incredible rim protector, whatever it may be. But it's funny, right? Like, that that player has to be special in that they found a niche.

[Steve Nash]

They did. And they're so dynamic.

[LeBron James]

It's not an issue.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah. And when you put them on the floor, it's not like, oh, well, it's five on four now.

[LeBron James]

Right. They'll make you pay for that.

[Steve Nash]

They make you pay for that.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Steve Nash]

They make you pay for that.

[LeBron James]

But I do believe. And it's no one's Fault, you know, 82 games is too many. You know, we started this way back when, and now, like, it's. We're kind of, like, beholden to it.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, yeah. The game, sports science has gotten better. Way better, especially. It's, like, going, you know, like, all technology is improving at a rapid rate. Having said that, there is nothing you can. Can do when you play 82 games. You're on airplanes, you're on different, you know, at altitude, you're in different time zones. And now the game has gotten stretched, so people are shooting from 25, 6, 7ft. We got more shooters on the floor, there's more space. So now you have to cover Excels D cell. So I think some people are like, wow, it was more physical back in the day. You know, Mike d' Antoni used to say to us when we got tired, you guys want to. You're tired. Oh, you want to go and get in a wrestling match with these guys? You think that's going to be more fun or you want to just run up and down and get them tired? I'd be like, yeah. So there's like two sides to all this stuff. But I think that, like, when the XLS decels in space, there's no getting around the wear and tear that causes, like, we're talking about elite athletes covering elite athletes in bigger spaces, longer rotations, more closeouts, more possessions. You know, I think, unfortunately, it just is a factor.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know, and then. So I hate load management. It's a part of the equation. Like, we have to be smart. We don't want guys to miss when, you know, when LeBron James goes to Atlanta. We don't want some kid to be sad because he's got to sit up. But sometimes that's the reality that we have to be smart about it. So I don't know, I feel like it's. An important part of the puzzle is managing the rigors of the game.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure. Because of how the game is today.

[Producer Jason]

For.

[LeBron James]

And now over to our producer Jason for a word from one of our partners.

[Producer Jason]

Thanks to DraftKings for sponsoring the show. LeBron and Steve break down the game, and our partners at DraftKings Sportsbook let you get in on the action. DraftKings brings the excitement of game night right to your phone. When you're watching your team and get a hunch about the next play, you can turn that instinct into an exhilarating bet instantly. New to DraftKings sportsbook, they're offering an incredible deal. Bet just $5, and if your bet wins, you'll get $200 in bonus bets instantly. That's right. Five bucks could turn into 200. The possibilities don't end there. Use those Bonus bets on DraftKings. Same game parlays for a shot at an even bigger payout. For fans of live betting, DraftKings delivers with a real time in game options. Get in on the action now. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code MIND to turn five bucks into $200 in bonus bets. If your bet wins, the crown is yours.

[Steve Nash]

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369.

[Producer Jason]

In Connecticut, help is available.

[Steve Nash]

For problem gambling.

[Producer Jason]

Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play.

[Steve Nash]

Responsibly on behalf of Booth and resort in Kansas. Fees May apply in Illinois, 21 and over.

[Producer Jason]

Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction.

[Steve Nash]

Boyd. In Ontario, bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds. Required bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio.

[LeBron James]

Let's go to, like, maybe some actions you guys ran last year. And I'll take this back to Cleveland.

[Steve Nash]

Okay.

[LeBron James]

Okay. And some similar actions you guys ran there. Similar to what Denver does with Jokic. A little bit. But I remember watching a game in Toronto in the playoffs. Fourth quarter down, going in the quarter. I think it was you on the elbow. I think it was Delhi Dova C. Fry. I'm trying to think who else was out there. I think Richard was out there. And our Richard Jefferson would often cut out and then a point. Now, this might have been different people who would.

[Steve Nash]

You could have been.

[LeBron James]

You got deli, you got a tube.

[Steve Nash]

It could be shump.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, I think it might be shump.

[Steve Nash]

It might be shump.

[LeBron James]

So you got shump with the ball. All right, here's. And so Richard clears out as this ball goes to you. Here comes Dele for a back screen. Here comes shump to the rim. All right, then deli's coming off you playing this game.

[Steve Nash]

And now we have lob game with a slide.

[LeBron James]

So the first look is on the rim. I'm guessing. Let's see if they make a mistake and get on the rim, you know, the second look is his deli just wide open. Third look is dho deli, fourth look is dho. You rolling? Fifth look is everyone's occupied. You got your best player going one on one. I think you guys scored, like, I don't know, seven straight possessions and, like, literally played every option. You got Channing on the skip when you, you know him sliding out of the corner. I see you guys using this action a little bit. The Lakers. So you. You got you with the ball. Luka with the ball. And you got you and Austin or Luka and Austin playing the back screen rub game. How important is it for this to be a component? And I want to hear. I'm sure JJ's saying we want to play fast. We want to play early, we want to pace in space. But when you need baskets how important?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure, because we want to play with pace and space, but the game is going to slow down at some point, you know, or, you know, it's going to be a foul here. Okay, take the ball on the side and you got to be able to execute. You want to be able to execute in the half court no matter what, you want to get up the court, give yourself as much time, you know, just to score a basket.

[LeBron James]

But see if they make a mistake.

[Steve Nash]

See if they make a mistake. And if they do, okay, let's cash in early. But when it's time to slow the game down or if it's time to execute, we have to be able to go to something. And those are one of the sets that we know we can go to. Just horns action, you know, and just start to make the reads, you know. You know, if AR is handling the ball, you know, and me and Luka is at the elbows and now you got space, you know, say for instance, you got, you know, you got Rui in one corner, you got, you know, Marcus Smart, maybe in another corner or you know, Jake or you know, dk, whatever you got, you got shooting in the corner. So you're trying to keep those guys that's guarding them hugged up, you know. And AR could hit either one of us and he can either go off the opposite guy, he can speed, cut, get the handoff back. If the handoff's not there, then we can play two man game with the two guys at the elbow. When we have two, two of our best decision makers at the elbow with or without the ball. So, you know, and when Luka with the ball, you know, in tight quarters, you know, if I'm coming to set a tight screen at the free throw line, I'm rolling. He got a shooter on the, on the, on the pool behind. It creates so much two tall passers. Right?

[LeBron James]

Right. That makes it hard. You kind of got to switch. You kind of got to switch. And that's where AR I think so important because he's going to have the third defender. Yeah, you guys are going to probably draw the two biggest, most physical assignments and then they are with his skill set is going to have the third. So it's not just about him having the weakest defender, it's about him bringing the weakest defender of the three into the action, which allows you guys to create an advantage. Domino. Now, how do you feel when you put in a non necessarily three point shooter? So like DA's on the floor, do you go away from this action or do you put him in the strong corner?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't go away from it because then you can manipulate defensive by, you know, now you have AR handling the ball. You can do some skip passes from Luka over to Da and now you can go uphill, uphill dhos with now DA rolling where he's really good, rolling to the rim. So there's, there's ways when you have guys that don't space the floor as much to still be able to space.

[LeBron James]

And make you pay.

[Steve Nash]

And make you pay. So we have the, we have complimentary guys that can, can do a lot of things that can help our offense still. Even if, you know the three point line is not their biggest asset, how.

[LeBron James]

Do you feel in those actions, Those rip to DHO actions? Would you rather be the ones at the elbow with the ball or would you rather be in the action space? Or is it all about matchups?

[Steve Nash]

No, it's all about matchups. And I think for me it's whatever we need. I've done it all, you know, and I'm very, I could be successful at them all. And I know, okay, if we're playing a team and they like to switch a lot, okay, this is not a hit and hold game where you get a full body, you hit and now you trying to wrestle a guy off of him because he's now grabbing, trying to get underneath the screen. So now this is a game where you know, just, it's touch and go.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Steve Nash]

Get behind. How fast can I get behind? So you gotta do it even like we said, slow the game down in half court. But it's still pace. Yes, it's still pace. We wanna get into our actions right away. So, you know, it's just a hip tap and get out of there. Or maybe, you know, we clear that guy in the corner, we clear him out on the flight of the ball. So now when I go, it may be a ghost screen, you know, I don't set it on Luke and now I just, I just ghost out to.

[LeBron James]

The three point line, create confusion, get them on their heels, ask different players to be in different positions. Now you're a point guard, you're used to defending the ball. Now your guys go screening. How much help?

[Steve Nash]

Yep. How much help?

[LeBron James]

A lot of help. It's tricky asking questions. Let me ask you this. We talk about pace in the half court. You know, on the teams I thought was a great kind of leader in. This was the beautiful game, spurs, you guys played in the playoffs. Comment a little bit on how that 0.5 decision making. Do you feel like that has set up? That was some of the foundation of the way people are playing now? Because we think of pace as up and down, but there's just as much value to pace in the halftime.

[Steve Nash]

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, listen, like, you should say, you think about the spurs teams, and, you know, those guys were generational before their times, and a lot of it came from, I think, a lot of the European scouts that they had, being able to see the European game and knowing sometimes, you know, they didn't have a lot of guys that could just come down and break their fingers down. We got to do this as a team, but we got to do it with a lot of space and a lot of pace. Let's. Let's get into our actions. Let's get the ball moving. If you don't have a shot, dribble, drive, kick, dribble, drive, kick, set a screen, get out of it. Like, things of that nature. And I think that Pop and those scouts and those coaches, they did a great job of kind of bringing that game to the NBA, and it caught us all off guard. You know, we didn't. You know, it takes sometimes a year for you to get used to a certain action, like, oh, what is this? You know, so for sure, having those battles with those guys that you knew, you know, Tony coming down with so much pace. He's coming down with so much pace. Okay, he gets off of it. Okay, now Manu has it. Manu, you know, fakes it like he's gonna shoot. And now he's driving, getting to the middle of the floor. Now he's kicking to somebody else. You know, Boris, he's faking. He's getting into the lane, and then the ball ends up in the hall of Fame. One of the greatest of all time.

[LeBron James]

Timmy D's hand, it's in between the circles.

[Steve Nash]

It's like, what do you do?

[LeBron James]

You know, it's. This works because five guys are willing to make quick decisions, right? I think it's a great lesson for young players. It's a great lesson for young guys in the league. I often say, like, guys can go get it themselves, but there's a time and place, and you always have to think what's the best for the health of the offense, not the health of my stat line. Now, the balance. Tricky thing I think you. Hopefully, you and I can relate on this, is that. But as the primary creator, you want to feel a certain amount of control. But, you know, like you said, if it's If a team can develop where all five guys are just, I'm ready. There's nothing wrong with driving it or shooting it, but making quick decisions, the ball keeps moving. Because sometimes, like you said, Tony comes down. He may not have a total advantage, but he just gets you leaning. He just gets the guy coming out of the corner. He just gets the guy coming towards the nail and it's going that way. Now they're coming out. It's one more pass as a cut guy comes up. Pick and roll. He's late. Rolling. Timmy rolls over. Rotate, skip. One, two, Corner three. So sometimes, like, it's interesting for young players to be able to find that way to like let go a little bit, let go of the need when you're a primary guy of having it all the time. You ever feel that, like that transition when you were younger?

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I mean, I also think it's like who your coaches are too and like what your upbringing is around the game, you know, like in high school, I didn't dominate the ball, you know, so when I was drafted, I wasn't the point guard on our team in high school. You know, we had a point guard who went to go play college basketball, who went overseas and is like the lead time, you know, all time assist guy in Stuttgart in Germany. So I wasn't the point guard of the team, but we all had our ability to. We was passing, cut pass and dribble drive. If you don't have a shot, get off of it. Like so, like it. Also, even though I was the alpha of the team, I was never, My mindset was never that like, I need to have the ball in my hand. It was like, we're winning by doing what the coaches want us to do and our system works. So like I'm like, when I got to the NBA, it changed for me and it kind of weirded me out, right? I'm like, this is not.

[LeBron James]

They're now demanding you to make win.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah, I'm like, this is not winning basketball. Like, I know what winning basketball is. And people say, well, that's high school to the pros. But great basketball and winning basketball does not matter the level. That's what people get so mind effed up because they think, okay, well the pros is different than high school. Well, the only thing that's different from high school to the pros is just the size and the players and the talent. But basketball IQ 101 is basketball IQ 101 on any level. So I was taught the game from A kid when I first started playing, all the way through high school. On, this is how you play the game. This is how the game should be played. This is not. I love it. Now I'm not gonna. I love golf. I do. I love it. I love it. But this is not golf, and it's not tennis. You know, you have to rely on your teammates. You have to figure out, how can these five guys on the floor compliment one another, you know, and do the things that need to be done in order for the success of the team. So when I got to the NBA, really, man, my rookie year, I was, like, weirded out.

[LeBron James]

I was like, now, like, you got to make all the plays.

[Steve Nash]

It's like a guy just comes down. He just comes down and go, pass. He shoots it. I was like, oh, what the hell is this? This is a culture shock.

[LeBron James]

Well, that only takes you so far. I think a lot of coaches are going to put the ball in the best player's hand. It's security. You're like, okay, well, if this guy's a great playmaker, you. It'll cut down our team turnovers. I know he can go get it.

[Steve Nash]

He'll go. I agree.

[LeBron James]

But it only takes you so far. You have to have layers to it. It's really as much about a mentality as anything, a willingness. Because I think, like, that's the thing, right? There's a security in having one guy have the ball a lot. You know, I went through it. You went through it. At the end of the day, it also becomes really difficult in the fourth quarter of multiple playoff games to constantly make the same plays.

[Steve Nash]

Yeah. And then a different rhythm for your teammates, too. You know, you've been handling the ball all game, or you've been a decision maker all game. When you finally get off of it at some point, it's like, your teammates, like, fuck am I supposed to do? Like, you know, they kind of get weirded out, too. So, like, you know, a lot of people, you know, think that this is what we wanted to do, but this is the position they put us in. And, yes, we became great decision makers. And, you know, we knew where we wanted our teammates to be. But, you know, I much rather. When I got to Miami and we started to learn, you know, when I got off the ball or I started playing so many more different positions, and we have the complimentary players to do that, that helps. Obviously, you have to have the right personnel, but it helped. And it was a breath of fresh air for me to kind of get back to playing just, you know, I know, and I had the ball in my hands as well, but like setting screens and. And running the floor and, you know, not always having to have the ball, you know, kind of being a. A decoy.

[LeBron James]

Well rounded offense.

[Steve Nash]

Well rounded offense. So that definitely helps.

[LeBron James]

I think that's one of the biggest emergencies that we're gonna, you know, probably see even more and more and more is just how important blenders got right, like just the first domino and having other guys that can attack a closeout make a play. Beautiful basketball.

[Steve Nash]

That's what it is. I think that's what the game is going. That's what the game is. That's the next era of our game. I think it's begun already, but how many players can you put on the floor that can create the domino effect, you know? Welcome back, man.

[LeBron James]

Mind the Game Season three.

[Steve Nash]

Good to see you. Yes, sir.

[LeBron James]

Thanks for watching Mind the Game. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Remember to, like, subscribe or follow wherever you're watching.

[Steve Nash]

Sam.