Listen Now: New Heights - Shaq on NBA Finals, Joining ESPN, Kobe Stories, Being the Black Kelce & A Big Slick Recap

Summary

Mind the Game S3 Special Drop: "New Heights" — Shaquille O’Neal on the NBA Finals, ESPN, Kobe, Being the Black Kelce & More

Original Release: May 1, 2026
Hosts: Jason Kelce & Travis Kelce (from New Heights) | Guest: Shaquille O’Neal
Mind the Game Intro: Steve Nash

Episode Overview

In this special crossover, Mind the Game spotlights an episode of the New Heights podcast, hosted by NFL stars Jason and Travis Kelce. Their guest is basketball icon Shaquille O’Neal, who joins for a lively and insightful conversation covering everything from his multi-sport ambitions, NBA Finals battles, business acumen, and how he’d fit in today’s game, to heartfelt stories from his past. The tone is equal parts humor and depth as Shaq shares candid and unfiltered stories about basketball, football, family, and life—while the Kelce brothers bring their characteristic wit and admiration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Shaq as “the Black Kelce” & Football Roots

Timestamps: 04:15–08:55

• Shaq claims he would have been “the Black Kelce” had he stuck with football, revealing football was his first love before his legendary basketball career.
• Quote: "I played a nose guard on defense, and I played tight end on offense... and I used to bring the pain." (Shaq, 05:20)
• A pivotal moment: After getting injured in high school football, his father pushed him to focus on basketball—citing NBA journeyman John Koncak’s big contract as motivation.
• Shaq humorously recounts his high school “alley-oop on three” goal line football play and the swagger he would have brought to the NFL.

Physicality in Sports: Then vs. Now

Timestamps: 13:43–15:18

• Discussion turns to how both the NBA and NFL have grown less physical.
• Quote: “The league is getting soft... It's gonna take a couple people to bring it back.” (Shaq, 14:39)
• Shaq mourns the decline of the post game and dominant “big man” play, saying he wishes Victor Wembanyama would “dominate so much that people start complaining.”
• Jason and Travis note that all major sports have become less aggressive, with Travis longing for athletes like Anthony Edwards, whose competitive edge stands out today.

Managing Fame, Business, & Social Media

Timestamps: 10:27–12:17

• Shaq credits his father’s tough love and lessons from tragedies like Len Bias’ death for keeping him focused and drug-free.
• He discusses his strategy for social media: “60% to make you laugh, 30% to inspire, last 10% for business.”
• Quote: “If I was playing, I’d be a trillionaire.” (Shaq, 11:39)
• Shaq reveals his measured approach to business deals and networking, inspiring the Kelce brothers to “take notes” on his professionalism off the court.

How Would Shaq Fit in Today’s NBA?

Timestamps: 12:17–13:43

• Shaq scoffs at critics who say he couldn’t play in today’s “pace-and-space” NBA.
• Quote: “As soon as Joker shoots a three, I’m gonna run right past him and post up in the lane for 100 seconds.” (Shaq, 12:57)
• Shaq says he’d stick to what made him great—power, high-percentage shots, and dominating the paint—confident that would still be a recipe for stardom (and massive contracts) today.

Competitive NBA Matchups & Career Lessons

Timestamps: 15:21–17:30

• Shaq shares which players/teams made life hardest for him, emphasizing that tenacious “little guys” (Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, Karl Malone) posed far more challenge than fellow giants.
• Recounts being outplayed by Hakeem Olajuwon in the 1995 NBA Finals after celebrating too early:
  • Quote: “He taught me never to celebrate too early. So when we played in the finals... he just f***ing taught me a lesson.” (Shaq, 16:00-16:27)
• Discusses how matchups with peers like Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson usually “cancelled each other out,” but physical, savvy enforcers caused him real problems.

Personal Moments & Humor

Timestamps: Throughout

• Shaq jokes with Travis about opening for Taylor Swift (“You’ll be a star in 10 minutes!” – 03:22) and recounts meeting both Taylor and Ice Spice at the Super Bowl (“I was more on Ice Spice than I was on your woman…” – 03:44).
• Playful banter about childhood football photos, Andy Reid’s legendary Punt, Pass, & Kick appearance, and the physical comedy of being a dominant-sized kid—infused with the brothers’ trademark energy.

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Notable Quotes

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------|---------|-----------| | “I used my football pain experience when I was playing basketball—when I turn with the elbows up, I'm trying to knock your teeth out…” | Shaq | 06:51 | | “If I get back to the finals again, I’m going to dominate so f***ing much that it won’t be a question who’s going to win.” | Shaq | 16:35 | | “You got a lot of bums making a lot of money… that’s motivation.” | Shaq | 12:22 | | “The NBA All-Star format is terrible. It used to be the most exciting weekend… it’s terrible.” | Shaq | 14:31–14:39 | | “As soon as Joker shoots a three, I’m gonna run right past him and post up in the lane for 100 seconds.” | Shaq | 12:57 | | “The little guys always defended me the best—the Charles Oakleys, the Anthony Masons… they could get leverage.” | Shaq | 15:41–17:14 |

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Segment Timestamps

• Shaq’s Introduction & “Black Kelce” Identity: 04:15–05:20
• Shaq’s Football History & Transition to Basketball: 05:35–07:50
• Lessons from Hakeem & NBA Finals Mindset: 15:37–16:50
• Physicality in Sports; NBA’s Direction: 13:43–15:18
• How Shaq Would Handle Today’s NBA: 12:17–13:43
• Business, Social Media, Being a Professional Athlete: 10:27–12:17
• Memorable Anecdotes & Family Influence: 09:04–10:27, 03:44–04:08
• Shaq’s Most Challenging Opponents: 15:37–17:14

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Memorable & Fun Moments

• Shaq on Travis becoming a concert hype man: “You’ll be a star in 10 minutes, hyping up the crowd…” (03:22)
• Shaq on meeting Ice Spice and Taylor Swift: “I was more on Ice Spice than I was on your woman, but thank you, brother.” (03:44)
• Shaq’s father confronting him about John Koncak’s contract as motivation for basketball: “Who is John Konkac? ... He made a lot of money!” (06:18)

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Tone & Takeaway

The conversation is playful but consistently revealing, blending Shaq’s iconic bravado and wit with deep seriousness about professional standards, physicality in sports, and what it means to seize opportunity. The Kelce brothers are both fans and foils, keeping pace with Shaq’s tales and wisdom while adding their own flavor and appreciation.

For anyone curious about the unique blend of football and basketball cultures, the evolution of sports, and the inside mindset of elite athletes, this episode is a can’t-miss crossover packed with personality and substance.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, mind the game, fans. Steve here today we're dropping something special in your feed and I think you're really going to enjoy this one. It's called New Heights and it's hosted by two guys you might have heard of, Jason and Travis Kelce. Look, I know what you're thinking, what does a football podcast have to do with me? But here's the thing. These two brothers bring the same passion for their sport that LeBron and I try to bring to basketball. They get into the real stuff, the preparation, the mindset of what it actually takes to compete and perform at the highest level week in and week out.

[B]

And.

[A]

And the guests they've got lined up this off season, trust me, you're not going to want to miss them. Even when they're not talking football, they're just a blast to listen to. The dynamic is real, it's funny, and something you can't manufacture. So do yourself a favor, go check out New Heights. I think you're going to love it. Here's Jason and Travis to tell you a little bit more.

[C]

What's up? Mind the game, fans. I'm Travis Kelce and this is my big brother, Jason Kelce.

[B]

Hey.

[C]

We're giving you a little taste of what we get into every week on New Heights.

[B]

That's right, it's me. My brother, no filter. Unless it's during an ad, then they will filter it, break down everything that happens in the NFL and honestly, whatever else is on our minds, from terrible dating advice to football to relationships, which I guess is dating advice to

[C]

food.

[B]

Yes. Don't care for your food. Travel.

[C]

Yeah. To just like celebrity interviews. Really?

[B]

Yeah. To coming of age stories.

[D]

Nice.

[C]

And when we say no filter, we mean that we have incredible edit team that keeps us from getting canceled. And here's a clue so you can hear for yourself.

[B]

Our guest today is seven foot one center from Louisiana State University. That's right. He's a 15 time NBA All Star, four time NBA champion, three time Finals MVP.

[C]

God damn.

[B]

A league MVP, Olympic gold medalist and an NBA hall of Famer. You know him as the Big Shamrock. The Big Aristotle.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

The Superman shackness. The Diesel.

[C]

We got him.

[D]

Simply Shaq, aka the Black Kelty Brother.

[B]

Let's go 92 percenters. Can you dig it? Please welcome Shaquille O'.

[D]

Neal. You know, it's crazy. I was thinking if we would have grown up together, we would have been great. Us three at the same high school. I would have been. It would have been so fun, been mayhem.

[C]

We would have had A blast, man. You would have. You would have blended in perfectly in the heights, baby.

[D]

Yes, I. I would have.

[C]

Man alive, appreciate you joining.

[B]

Well, how we doing?

[D]

I can't complain. Thanks for having me. You know, I love both of you guys. Want to say I'm proud of both of you guys, and I appreciate our friendship. I know we don't see each other a lot, but when we do see each other, it's all love and respect. I always. Even though I am who I am, I'm still a fan of the game and the fan of sports and the way you two gave your all. Much appreciated.

[C]

You know what, baby?

[B]

Well, thank you so much.

[C]

Yeah, we took notes about how you played it and how you. And how you've done it in life. I'm still taking notes by how you did it, man. You got to get me on the. On the. On the DJ booth, man. You got to teach me. Teach me your ways, dog.

[D]

I got you. I got you. Whatever you got. And you know what's crazy? You opening up for your girlfriend, bro. You'll be a star. 10 minutes. 10 minutes. Hyping up the crowd. Oh, my God.

[C]

Come on, now.

[D]

You know I'm a hype man.

[C]

You know I'm a hype man.

[D]

He can get a rocket in there,

[C]

have the Swifties bouncing off the walls before Tay gets out there.

[D]

Speaking of Swifties, your brother did something nobody else in the world can do. He walked me right over. I got to shake her hand. Oh, nice. And you know she was with Ice Spice. I was more on Ice Spice than I was on your woman, but thank you, brother. I appreciate you very much. I was like, hey, Taylor. Oh, my God. Ice Spice. Hey, Boo Boo.

[B]

How you handle. That was awesome.

[D]

That was awesome.

[C]

That was the Super Bowl. I like to remember. No, man, I appreciate you saying that, man.

[B]

You mentioned this already. You were on Inside the NFL, and you said if you played in the NFL or if you played in the NFL, you'd be known as a black Kelsey. We're going to play this link for anybody that hasn't seen that clip yet. We thought. This is one of the funniest things we've ever seen. Brandon, can we play the clip?

[D]

Let's go. Intern.

[B]

This is what happens when you have interns.

[D]

He's on your ass. Intern. What NBA players do you think would transition well into our sport? Me.

[C]

Wait, wait.

[D]

Yeah, you couldn't.

[C]

You're too. You're too big and too much of a target to play tight end, though.

[D]

I am not. You know what? They Would call me. They will call me the black Kelsey.

[B]

That was my man. Ocho Cinco giving it back to you.

[D]

A lot of people don't know this, that, you know, when I was coming up, football was my sport. Okay, so you played? Yeah, I was football all the way. And I was really good. I used to tell people, too Tall Jones was my father. I really played, and I, like. I played a nose guard on defense, and I played tight end on offense. That's what I'm saying, baby.

[C]

I knew you were tight end, man.

[D]

And I used to bring the pain. Yeah. I can only imagine all the kids in school, they used to talk trash. And, you know, this was like in the days where you could, like, rough people up and try to hurt them. Oh, yeah, I was that guy.

[B]

He was encouraged.

[D]

And then one day, he was encouraged. And then one day, my junior year, I scored, and a little freaking dude hit me on the side of my knee, and I was out for about eight weeks. So football is my thing. And then my father came in the house one day and smacked me in the back of the head with a paper. I was like, you need to fucking stop playing football and focus on basketball. And when I opened up the paper, John Konkac had just signed 15 for three. Oh, wow. Yes. So he. So I'm like. I'm like, first of all, who is John Konkac? My dad was like, I got some tickets. We gonna go watch him. I was l. In San Antonio at the time. So the Hawks were playing the spurs. And no disrespect to John Konkac. He was. He was NBA. He was a pro. He was a good player, but made

[C]

a lot of money.

[D]

It sounds like, yeah, he made a lot of money, but I was doing the things that in high school like he was doing in the pros. And I was like, if this dude's making 15 for 3. My dream was to make 8 million for 10 years. That was my whole dream coming out. I wanted to make 8 million for 10 years. And I had it all set up. I wanted a Mercedes Benz. I wanted a Jimmy Bronco. I wanted. Like, that was my whole thing. So I started playing basketball, but I used my football pain experience when I was playing basketball. Like, when I turn with the elbows up, I'm trying to knock your teeth out your mouth.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

So, you know, people. People always go back to the hacker Shack, and it's like, oh, well, he got filed a lot. I never felt it. That's because of my football prowess and my football experience. But Yeah, I think if I would have stuck with. With football, I probably would have. I probably would have definitely made tight end. Like, I hate when people look at me and be like, oh, you'll be a good offensive. I'm like, I'm not a lineman. I'm a Showman in the 90s, for sure.

[C]

You running up and down the floor.

[B]

I could see it right now. If people that say that don't remember Orlando Shaq, right? They don't remember him running the court like that. That's when they don't remember

[D]

we had a play in high school. On the goal line. Alley oop on three.

[C]

Yeah, Alley oop on three.

[D]

I go five. Five yards in and turn towards the corner, and you just fucking throw it up. And I would fucking go get it and snag it. I used to watch her.

[C]

And I'm about to go to Coach Reed right the now.

[D]

Yes. I used to watch Kellen. Kellen Winslow.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Senior.

[D]

And all those legends. Yeah. So, yeah. So, you know, football was my sport.

[C]

That's awesome.

[B]

I believe it. Every time they asked me to do these. These rosters. Build an NFL roster. Who you picking? I'm picking Shaq every day of the week. Because you did play basketball like an NFL player. Like, anybody that watched you play in the post is like, yeah, that dude could rush the passer. He could catch the ball. Like, he could do it all. I don't know. Just put him out on the field. I ain't worried one bit.

[D]

And I'm g send you. I'm g send you a picture of me winning my first punt pass and kick contest.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

For mama's New Jersey, man.

[C]

Please send that. Please send that. Did you have the whole outfit on?

[D]

No, I just had, like. I just had, like, sweatpants and T shirt and everything.

[C]

Because the. The one I. Coach Reed, has one out there where he's got the full rams. Get up on the helmet, the shoulder pads, the. Oh, man, it's hilarious.

[D]

I saw that. Was that him when he was.

[C]

That was really him?

[D]

Yes, that's him.

[B]

Bigger than every kid out there.

[D]

That wasn't him.

[C]

Yes, the nerdy guy. He tells the story.

[D]

I saw that clip the other day. I was like, who the fuck is that? He was dominating them little kids. Too. Funny.

[C]

I have to ask you this right off the jump, big guy. Was it not allowed for you to go straight to the league or did you just want that college experience or that LSU experience?

[D]

It was, but my father was so big on education.

[C]

I got you.

[D]

He was really Big on education. I gotcha. He did a great job of teaching me horror stories. Always tell this story and, you know, some people may take it the wrong way, but I, I really appreciate what he did. The day Lynn Bias passed away from coke, my father came in and touched me up very nice. And the message was, if I ever catch you doing drugs, I will fucking kill you. Wow. So he like, I didn't know who Lynn Bias was. And he came in the house fucking crying, Uniform 12. And he's like. And he just fucking grabbed me. If I ever catch you with coke, I will fucking kill you. And in my mind I was like, dad, we drink Pepsi. He was like, no, fucking no. Seriously. I'm like. Cause I'm, I'm like, I'm like, I think, I'm like, I'm thinking like 13 at the time. But he felt like that was his son. He felt like a guy that had it all, you know, was going to be the number one pick, get drafted by the Boston Celtics. And he made a terrible mistake and he passed away. So I never did that. Always stayed away from that. But every time an athlete got in trouble, I was sort of getting trouble for it. So every time I, you know, when I became a professional athlete, all the stuff that was in my mind, especially athletes that five years after they play, they don't have any money, I was really, really conscious about, you know, business and saving money and, you know, doing the right thing. So, hell yeah.

[C]

I'm telling you, Diesel, I'm still taking notes by how you're doing stuff. You've done it such a professional way. Professional way. Your professionalism on the off the court, in the business world, man, I've been taking notes for a long time, man. You've been doing it the right way.

[D]

Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And I'm taking notes from you guys too. You guys are doing your thing.

[B]

Do you ever wonder what it would have been like playing in like today's NBA with all of the social media and the podcast and it's like you were a larger than life NBA figure, not just as a player, but like major motion pictures coming out and like,

[C]

what do you mean, kazam? Are you kidding me?

[B]

This guy, I was about to ask

[C]

him why he stuck, stopped being in the, the acting world.

[B]

Hey, second favorite genie. Second favorite. I'll give Robin Williams a nod. Robin Williams gets one. But Shaq is getting my second favorite genie ever. Yes.

[D]

So I, I, I, I always tell athletes it's okay to be professional jealousy of somebody else. Like, I'M jealous of you guys. Guys, podcast killing. He's making money. But instead of using that to create envy, I use that to create motivation. So to answer your question, if I was playing, I'd be a trillionaire.

[C]

I believe it.

[D]

I believe when I. When I use social media, I said to myself, like, when I first got on social media, I was showing off. And then my mother got on social media, she was so disappointed. She's like, baby, you don't have to show off your gold chains and your cars. So I had to figure out a way to use social media. So I use 60% to make you laugh, 30% to inspire you. Like, if I see something inspirational or cool, I'll forward it. And then the 10, last 10 is, hey, this is Shaq for Beatbox. This is Shaq Vic. So I do it like that. I probably would have had the same method growing up, and I would have made so much money.

[B]

And then I'm writing this down,

[C]

business mind.

[D]

And then you got a lot of. You got a lot of bums making a lot of money. And you guys know this. Like, if it's a tight end making a certain amount, he's making more than you. And he did that. You're going to use that as motivation. Oh, this motherfucker had 12 touchdowns and he's making 100 million. You're going to go out and get 19 touchdowns and then just tell your agent, hey, we're getting a new deal. So, you know, I would definitely. I would definitely love to play in this era. I would still bring the football pain, and I would be different. You know, I'd be watching these podcasts. Oh, Shaq couldn't play in this era. Couldn't guard the three.

[B]

They're out of their minds.

[D]

It would be simple. As soon as Joker shoots a three, I'm gonna run right past him, and I'm going to post up in the lane for 100 seconds. So if you hit the three good, but I know by the time we get the ball and throw it down, I'm definitely going to hit the two more twos than you hit three. So I will probably only shoot a three, like if we got up, But I would. I would not go away from my strength. My strength is power and height. So I'm going to take the high percentage shots, because if I'm averaging 30, it's an easy job for my agent. If I'm standing out there shooting threes and averaging 15, that's a tough job. But if I'm averaging 30, you know, scoring A lot of points. And my agent can say, hey, Rudy Gobert got 250. Me and Shaq, we want 700. There we go. We want 700. I mean, Rudy, 250. Shit. That's what I'm saying.

[C]

More dominant. So the numbers got to make sense.

[B]

Do you think the modern NBA is missing that aggression in that way? Because it wasn't just you that used to play that game like the post. It used to be a much more physical game.

[C]

It's all of sports nowadays. You know, football hit anybody. Baseball, you can't even fucking block the plate at home. Like.

[B]

But that was one of the reasons. One of the reasons I wanted minutes. Like, after the Cavs got eliminated, one of the reasons I was rooting for the Timberwolves is because Anthony Edwards looked like he was mad the entire game. Like, at least this guy's showing some aggression. I like the way this guy's playing.

[D]

Like, exactly.

[C]

You're right.

[D]

I wish in this thing of ours, it was ran by us. I hear you.

[B]

I like that.

[D]

Like, for example, when. When. When you guys retire, the NFL just, like, brings everybody in. But, okay, you, you, you, and you. You got all these people that are changing the game. Like, our NBA All Star format is terrible. It's tough, man. It's terrible.

[C]

It used to be the most exciting weekend.

[D]

I don't know of all the sports in charge, but it's terrible. So to answer your question, the league is getting soft. The game is getting soft, and it's going to take a couple of people to bring it back. Like, I don't. I hate big guys shooting threes. Victorian is a great player, but I would love to just see him dominate so much that people start complaining, then they change rules. Like, when I do. Like, I could shoot, but I'm not going to shoot a three. Why would I shoot a three when I could put your little ass in the basket and dunk on you and put these balls in your face. Get those legs out. I'm getting so freaking fired up right now.

[B]

That was amazing.

[C]

Before we get to your documentary, because I definitely want to pump that up, man. I got to ask you, now that we're talking about balls in your face, who do you think gave you the hardest time playing? Who defended you the best? What teams did that?

[D]

The little guys always defended me the best. The Charles Oakley's.

[C]

Cleveland's finest, baby.

[D]

The Anthony Masons. Yeah. The four guys I had problem with. I didn't really have any problems with any big guys. The big guy that taught me the Most valuable lesson is Akeem Olajuwon. Because the year we made it to the finals, we beat Michael Jordan, the greatest player ever. So I already thought the job was done. And then we had 10 days off. And living in Orlando, you're going to restaurants, it's standing ovations, and you're getting extra deals, and it's the parades. And me and one of my other teammates are jumping on private planes. We're going to Miami and party and, you know. Cause I like to get ready three days before. But you got 10 days off. I couldn't be like this for 10 days. All right? So I'm like, you know what? Let me take a couple days off. We definitely gonna win. I'm playing against Hakeem. We. We. We won one. We won one. He's the same size. We definitely gonna win. But he taught me never to celebrate too early. So when we played in the finals, I didn't see that Akeem. And they had just won the year before, so they were going for it back to back, and he just fucking taught me a lesson. So I always said to myself, if I get back to the finals again, I'm going to dominate so fucking much that it won' question of who's going to win. So, you know, he, He. He kind of got his way in that finals. Me and Dave Robson, probably even me and Tim Duncan, probably even me and Patrick Ewan, even me and Alonzo, even, like, we always try to, you know, cancel each other out. I couldn't stop them, they couldn't stop me. But the guys like Charles Oakley and Carl Malone, the little guys that can get.

[C]

Get into your leverage underneath here.

[D]

Yeah, get leverage. Yeah. Those are the ones that gave me problems. Rick Mahorn had this move because he was a big body. He put his body on you and as and go backwards. He would move and I would fall.

[C]

Pull the chair on you.

[D]

That move right there.

[C]

That's crazy.

[B]

Well, we hope you enjoyed that clip. If you want to have some more fun and hang out with me and my brother, go check out New Heights wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

This show is growing this off season, and with brand new segments and great guests coming up, you don't want to miss what we got coming.

[B]

So subscribe, join the 92 percenters and thank you so much to Steve and LeBron. Feels very weird calling them by their first names only for letting us crash the Mind the Game feed.