The Austin Reaves Interview

Summary

Mind the Game – The Austin Reaves Interview

Date: March 24, 2026
Hosts: LeBron James & Steve Nash
Guest: Austin Reaves ("AR")

Episode Overview

In this in-depth, candid conversation, LeBron James and Steve Nash break down the evolution, playmaking, and mindset of emerging NBA star Austin Reaves. Together, they explore his path from small-town roots to high-stakes NBA moments, with honest discussion about draft experiences, learning from vets, his basketball upbringing, unique skills, and the art and nuance behind his game. The episode is rich in personal stories, technical breakdowns, and genuine laughter, exemplifying Mind the Game's commitment to basketball's deepest layers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Austin Reaves' Path to the NBA

• Draft Night Strategy & Not Getting Drafted

  • AR describes the plan to aim for the Lakers' two-way spot, prioritizing opportunity over hearing his name called on draft night.

    "It sucked to not hear my name called. But obviously, putting ourself in a good position was much more important." – Austin Reaves ([02:22])

  • Importance of analytics: His agents highlighted Lakers as a top fit due to analytics and roster situation ([03:27]).

    "They have a bunch of analytics guys grading people, grading teams... Lakers, Bucks, maybe one other team was like tier one, best possible fit." – AR ([03:27])

• Judged by Appearance, Overlooked for Draft

  • Both hosts and AR discuss how looks can lead to being overlooked:

    "You look at me now and you're still like, he can't play basketball." – AR ([00:25])
    "They look at... judge a book by its cover." – Coach/LeBron ([00:23], [21:00])

Early Development and Family Influence

• Basketball Family & Small-Town Upbringing

  • Raised in Newark, Arkansas, with two basketball-playing parents and a brother playing pro in Germany ([10:24], [15:02]).
  • Brother forced him to gym sessions, building work ethic and resilience ([13:30]-[14:54]):

    "He'd drag me out of the house. We'd go shoot for, you know, a couple hours, and then he'd just beat me really bad, one on one... He's probably the biggest basketball influence in my life." – AR ([13:30])

• Delusional Confidence and Grit

  • Reaves credits family for fostering a deep competitiveness and unusual confidence—never being allowed to win at anything at home, learning to hate losing more than loving to win ([17:54]-[19:27]):

    "I never beat my brother in anything... My parents were the same way. They didn't let me win anything... So I learned to hate losing more than I love to win." – AR ([18:20])

Early NBA Experience & Role Models

• Earning Respect and Gaining Confidence

  • LeBron and AD told him early:

    "From day one of being like, hey, you don't have to be you, like, on the court, off the court, whatever it is, just be you." – AR ([07:06])

  • Importance of veteran guidance from Rondo, Melo, Russ:

    "I leaned on Rondo a lot... I'm a question-asker. I remember I told Rondo, I was like, yo, if I ask you too many questions, you can tell me shut the hell up. He loves questions." – AR ([09:13],[09:53])

• First NBA DNP and Breaking Through

  "Opening night, we played Golden State... Literally my first ever... DNP didn't play. First time ever. And I was like, what the hell?" – AR ([26:12])

  • Got his chance next game and quickly stuck in the rotation.

Mindset and Skillset: IQ & Playmaking

• Undervalued IQ and Adaptability

  • LeBron and Nash stress the irreplaceable value of basketball IQ:

    "With my basketball mechanism and hard drive attached to is guys that know how to play the game... But also saw the knowledge of the game and the willingness to want to work." – LeBron/Coach ([28:08])

• Playmaking Roots and Versatility

  • Played point guard through high school; adapted roles through college to help teams win, learning to contribute without needing to score:

    "Never had a problem with buying into a role to help the team be successful." – AR ([30:19])

• Role of Creativity & Improvisation

  • AR on his style:

    "Nothing's predetermined. Like, nothing's predetermined... Those are the... hardest people to guard because... there's no telling what I'm doing." – AR ([35:40], [36:01])

  • Nash draws parallels to evolution of NBA offense—emphasis on creating advantage and playing off instinct ([36:06]).

The Art of the Behind-the-Back Dribble

• Signature Skill and Craft
  • Hosts praise AR’s ability to change speed/direction with behind-the-back moves (compared to Jamal Crawford, Luka, Kyrie):

    "You can use it to go, you can use it to hang, you can use it to retreat... on the move, for sure, both ways. It's fun to watch because that's tough." – Nash ([38:19])

  • AR describes working with Phil Handy on movement skills ([38:53]).

Finishing, Foul Drawing, and Contact

• Efficiency in the Paint
  • LeBron and Nash highlight AR’s high finishing rate, foul-drawing artistry ([39:29]-[44:54]):

    "For a guy that you look at, you don't think as strong and think that could create contact. You will. You realize it once he hits you with that damn shoulder and you're sliding back four feet." – LeBron/Coach ([48:05])

  • AR details how he manipulates defenders, uses timing/shoulder bumps, and crafts options out of each possession ([49:54]).

Clutch Gene and Mentality

• Loving the Moment
  • AR embraces chaos, staying calm and present:

    "Just a belief in every moment. Just, you know, being able to think positive when chaos is going on, is something that I've been really good at throughout my whole career. Even when I was younger." – AR ([50:28])

  • Iconic moment:

    "I go to the corner and I forgot who it was on their bench. Was like, you don't want it? And I was like, I'm not going to touch the ball, but if I do is going in." – AR ([53:01])

  • LeBron and Nash discuss failing in the clutch but learning to want the opportunity again ("die a thousand deaths") ([54:57]).

On-Court Clips: Play Dissections

• Football Formation & Rim Pressure ([57:31]-[59:52]):

  • AR and hosts walk through using football formations to lift defenders, creating space to attack elite rim protectors like Rudy Gobert.

• Double Drag & Behind-the-Back Reads

  • Technical breakdowns of manipulating coverage, using signature behind-the-back moves to reset and re-attack, passing with creativity, and creating rim pressure ([60:04]-[63:10]).

• Improvisation and Reading the Game

  • Emphasis on reading the defense, not pre-determining moves, and always hunting for the next advantage.

• Viral LeBron Coaching Clip

  • The hosts revisit an iconic bench interaction between AR and LeBron when a blowout is winding down, leading to a massive social media spike for AR ([65:36]-[66:39]):

    "I remember he posted that after the game, and my followers went from like 60,000... Seven million." – AR ([66:19])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "I learned to hate losing more than I love to win." – Austin Reaves ([18:20])
• "You look at me now and you're still like, he can't play basketball." – Austin Reaves ([00:25])
• "Basketball is a lot of confidence and IQ. When you know the game and you have high confidence, I feel like you can do a lot of things." – AR ([08:45])
• "I always wanted to be a point guard." – AR ([30:14])
• "Behind-the-back... I feel like I’m not going to lose the ball, especially dribbling, whatever. It might not look normal." – AR ([34:22])
• "I feel like the hardest people to guard are, like, you literally, you’re not watching scouts... There’s no telling what I’m doing." – AR ([36:01])
• "Once you start being on opposing team's depth chart of, like, scout—you got Luka, Arkansas, me—this is what we got to take away..." – LeBron/Coach ([28:17])
• "Just a belief in every moment. Just, you know, think positive when chaos is going on..." – AR ([51:09])

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Key Timestamps

• Draft Night Strategy & Not Getting Drafted: [02:22]–[04:27]
• Family and Early Influences: [10:24]–[15:26]
• Delusional Confidence & Work Ethic: [17:54]–[19:27]
• NBA Breakthrough and Rookies’ Mentality: [25:34]–[28:08]
• Skills & Playmaking Philosophy: [28:08]–[32:31]
• Improvisation and Dribbling: [34:38]–[39:29]
• Finishing, Foul Drawing & Art of Contact: [39:29]–[44:54]
• Clutch Mentality & Iconic Moments: [50:01]–[55:20]
• In-Game Play Breakdowns: [57:31]–[65:12]
• LeBron Coaching Viral Moment: [65:34]–[66:39]

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Memorable Segment: Clutch Mindset ([50:01]–[54:46])

• Reaves details several late-game situations and his unwavering calm, earning nods from LeBron and Nash, who both describe the bittersweet drive to embrace—and learn from—failure in big moments.
• Quote:

  "You die a thousand deaths, right? Like, you're gonna die, you're gonna miss... accept death for sure and then just go." – Host/Nash ([55:03])

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Language and Tone

The episode maintains a relaxed, candid, and conversational tone—with plenty of humor, self-deprecation, and real talk about the unseen grind of NBA life. The honesty and camaraderie between LeBron, Nash, and Reaves shine through, often mixing technical basketball talk with personal stories.

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Conclusion

This episode of Mind the Game stands out for its detailed exploration of Austin Reaves' journey, unfiltered discussion about obstacles faced by overlooked players, celebration of intelligence and improvisation on the court, and step-by-step breakdowns illustrating elite modern NBA offense. The blend of technical analysis and personal storytelling offers valuable lessons for basketball fans, players, and anyone curious about the mind behind the game.

Transcript

[Host]

Coming up on this episode of Mind the Game.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Oh, my goodness. AR welcome. AR to Martin. What's up, dog, man? Welcome to my guy.

[Host]

Why do you think you weren't a first round pick? Like, do you think in your heart at the time?

[Coach or Team Staff]

Well, you know why I'm not allowed

[Host]

to say it, Okay, I know why.

[Coach or Team Staff]

You know how that shit is.

[Host]

And I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.

[Coach or Team Staff]

They look at to judge a book by its cover.

[Player AR]

You look at me now and you're still like, he can't play basketball.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Detroit backstory. Don't draft me. Give us the content. Give us the whole story. I'm gonna get right on to it, man.

[Player AR]

I'm standing in the corner and I forgot who it was on their bench. Was like, you don't want it? And I was like, I'm not gonna touch the ball, but if I do, it's going in.

[Host]

We're gonna bring out a couple plays, just a couple things. Give the fans, like, your perspective on just things you're able to do with the ball.

[Player AR]

Well, let's just start with why. Why is Bron even in the game right now? It's over. I remember he posted that after the game. And my followers went from like, 60,000.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I'm sorry.

[Player AR]

Seven million.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I'm sorry, man. It was a clean beat. Your.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Coach or Team Staff]

I'll take that bottle over there. I don't know if I'm gonna do anything with it, but I'm gonna pour it.

[Host]

Just. There's one over there, too. You wanna check that one?

[Coach or Team Staff]

This is Silver Oak 2020. Let me see that opener. I'm just gonna open it. I'm gonna just open it. Just never heard of that one.

[Host]

No. It's up to you.

[Player AR]

I don't drink.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Host]

At all?

[Player AR]

Nope.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Never have.

[Player AR]

Nope.

[Coach or Team Staff]

So this is my golf. I'm gonna scratch golf.

[Player AR]

I'm. This is me right here.

[Coach or Team Staff]

This is me right here. I'm with the pros.

[Host]

So we are rolling?

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I mean, we're already rolling. I'm gonna get right on to it. Ar. Welcome. Ar. Oh, my God.

[Player AR]

Appreciate you.

[Host]

Let's go.

[Player AR]

Appreciate you.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I think we should get right to it. Detroit backstory. Don't draft me. Give us the content. Give Us the whole story.

[Player AR]

I'm gonna get right on to it, man. Yeah, so my agents, Reggie back there, they set up a plan and the plan was, you know, we knew LA had a two way open on draft night and knew it was a situation to where, you know, I could possibly step in, get a contract because I don't know how many guys were actually under contract at that time. There was a lot of free agents, a lot of signings to be done and we knew that going in. They called it 42 and they came up to me and you know it's every kid's dream of hearing their name called on draft night and I'm no different. But you know, it came down to sticking to a plan and that's what we did. And it sucked to not hear my name called. But obviously putting ourself in a good position was much more important.

[Host]

But there has to be more to it. Like you. It was for a two way, you know, with the Lakers. Yeah. Which became obviously before the season you got a deal but I mean you could have got a two way deal from any of those teams. Why the Lakers? Why were you. That was the place I need to go.

[Player AR]

Yeah, I think, I mean they have a bunch of analytics guys that were, you know, grading people, grading teams by you know, grade one, two, three, whatever it was. And the Lakers, I think it was Lakers, Bucks, maybe one other team that was like tier one, like best possible fit

[Host]

your agent.

[Player AR]

Yeah, our agents. Yeah. With the analytics people.

[Host]

Okay.

[Player AR]

So you know, kind of dove into that and then listen to that. And then on another note, like, like we talked about like there was nobody, I think there was maybe like four or five guys on under contract at the time because they ended up having to sign like seven guys and then knowing that there was going to be a possibility to snag that 13th, 14th roster spot. And then on top of that, like him IQ level, like I feel like I have a pretty good iq, you know, to the game and felt like, you know, that was one way that I could get in the, you know, my foot in the door was to, you know, lean on that and lean on, you know, just knowing the game of basketball and you know, that's what he does.

[Host]

When was the first time you saw him play? Like not like in person or was it on college or.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah, I actually, I had never had seen him play up until the point till we drafted him and but once that. Once I. Well not drafted him, but signed him, you know, signed him after the fact. And I went back and Watched a lot of his Wichita State highlights and games, and then a lot of his Oklahoma highlights and games as well. The first thing I noticed. It's kind of funny, we always talk about this. He didn't play like a white boy. It was very different. His wiggle was very different. I mean, I grew up in Northeast Ohio, so I know white guys playing like white guys and white guys playing like the brothers. And what I could see. And his game is that he had a lot of wiggle to his game, and that was one of the one things that, quite frankly, we were missing, we didn't have.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I thought that his game would translate to us. His ability to crack the seams and his ability to get into the pain and him playing even though their team wasn't as good at Oklahoma. His. His game kind of. It showed a pro, and that's what I saw, but that's what I saw early on. So as soon as training camp started, I kind of made it a point to kind of beeline it to him.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

And kind of kind of force something into him, maybe even before he even saw it. Push, believe, push, push that belief and that confidence like, you belong here. And that. I was kind of on him, like, pretty much from. From day one, because I feel like one. We. We needed that, you know, as far as. Because we didn't. We didn't possess that consistently. But also, I saw he had game, too, and I really thought that it could translate to the big leagues.

[Host]

Do you remember a moment where Bron said something to you or just, like, feeling of connecting with him early, where you're like, oh, he really believes in me.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Well, I damn sure won the game in Brooklyn. That clip. We got to make sure we clip that.

[Player AR]

No, that was. It wasn't even my fault. That's another story. But now it always goes back to, you know, when. When he had his minicamp in San. I think it was. No, it's Vegas. Vegas. That year.

[Host]

Before you're.

[Player AR]

Before it was. This was before I was on under contract, and it was crazy because it was. I think it was like, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. We came back Sunday, and it was like Wednesday. And I didn't even know if I was going yet. And one of my friends back home was getting married that weekend, too. So I was about to buy a flight to go back home, got the invite, obviously told my friend, like, hey, I can't.

[Host]

Can't say there's levels to this.

[Player AR]

Yeah. So we. We get in the gym, and I think we got to playing, like, three on Three or something. Got a couple buckets and then drove downhill eight. And I thought I had a layup, and the AD Come out of nowhere, and I was like, oh, and late second, kind of like behind the back pass to him. He come down lane, dunked it. And then it was just from then on out, like, they were like, you're good. Like, just be yourself. Him and AD Then I've given them all the credit I can give them just to, you know, from day one of being like, hey, you don't have to be you, like, on the court, off the court, whatever it is, just be you.

[Host]

It's powerful, right?

[Player AR]

No, for sure. Coming from good players.

[Host]

Yeah. You know, I had this experience to sidebar to my experiences, but Kevin Johnson was our point guard in Phoenix my rookie year. And I mean, I grew up watching this guy play, and he was walking 2010, and, like, one day he grabbed me and was like, in the locker room, was like, you know, you're as good as anyone, any guard I've ever played against. And I wasn't even playing. Yeah, it's just from practice floor, watching, playing, competing, and I was like. Like kind of. You know what I mean? You're taking it back a little bit, and you're. He's like, no, you're as good as anyone I've ever played, played against. And I was like, that gives you so much confidence that. Because, you know, I think we have similar kind of coming from places we're not supposed to come from to play in the NBA. And so for someone who's been there, done that, and has the things that, like, we don't have, like his explosiveness and speed and things like that, you know, to hear the. The guys that have done it say it to you really can give you a lot of belief. Did you feel like that launched you a little more to, like, just be, like, let loose, relax? For sure.

[Player AR]

I mean, you know, like you said, not the most explosive person in the world. Very jealous of people like that. But, yeah, it's just, you know, I feel like this whole game is a lot of confidence and iq. When you know the game and you have high confidence, I feel like you can do a lot of things. And, you know that it wasn't just, you know, him and A.D. we had Melo, Russ, Rondo. Like, I leaned on Rondo a lot. My record.

[Host]

That's a hell of a veteran.

[Player AR]

Yeah. So I had. I mean, I had probably the. The best people that you could talk to possible. And, you know, I'm a question, asker I remember I told Rondo, I was like, yo, if I ask you too many questions, you can tell me, shut the hell up. I don't care. He loves questions. Yeah. So every time, like, we would be in practice there, there's something would happen, and I would, you know, go over to him, or I'd always be standing by him and just be like, what. What did you see here? What'd you see there? But, yeah, just the confidence that they had in me, the whole group, from day one, just, you know, like you said, catapulted me to, you know, continue to be better.

[Host]

So Rondo's like, as advertised, like a thinker, for sure. Yeah.

[Player AR]

I had to carry a chessboard around for him. Yeah.

[Host]

Did you ever play with him? Did you ever play with him?

[Player AR]

No, I never played him. And I started playing chess a lot my rookie year, and I got decent, but I still was a little nervous to play him because I felt like he would be nice. So I never played him. But I forgot you used to get a chessboard.

[Host]

Sounds funny.

[Player AR]

I remember we bought it in Boston.

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

So, okay, crazy detail. When did you start hooping? Because I know you played baseball as a kid, right?

[Player AR]

Yeah, I. I mean, I kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my mom and dad both played. Brother plays.

[Host]

Both played in college, right?

[Player AR]

Yeah, they played at Arkansas State. That's where they met.

[Host]

Where'd your brother play in college?

[Player AR]

He played at central Missouri Division 2 school. Just. He was just small. He was a two guard that was too small to play. He could have played at a small division one, but, you know, you see, you know, a white kid that's not very athletic, he could shoot out of it. But, yeah, I kind of always played, but baseball was the. The one that everybody wanted me to play. My dad told me my. I think it was going into my seventh grade year. He said I needed to pick baseball or basketball to try to get my school paid for because that's. At that point, that's all we're thinking about. And I'm probably, you know, 5 foot, you know, 95 pounds.

[Host]

What position did you play in baseball?

[Player AR]

Shortstop. Yeah, I put a lot of short, and then I pitched a little, which I didn't like pitching. But, yeah, we. We had a summer basketball camp, and I moved up two grades to play with my brother, and we was beating teams by 30, and I was like, oh, this is much faster. Baseball is kind of slow. So I went back to my dad and I was like, I want to play basketball. And he was like, you're fucking stupid. I was like, damn. But he was like, obviously you got my support.

[Host]

Were you killing in baseball?

[Player AR]

I was, yeah, I was solid.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah, you was probably trending higher in baseball.

[Player AR]

He. He thought, yeah, no, he thought I was a better.

[Host]

He also saw the metrics. Skinny white boy. I was small.

[Player AR]

I, I mean, I didn't grow until my, like junior year of high school. So at the time, I understand why, but, you know, he told me that my best friend's dad, which was our baseball coach, you know, I remember we were driving home, he was taking me home, and I told him I was quitting baseball, and he told me that basketball wasn't going to work out. And I was like, well, we'll see.

[Host]

I got, I got some similar stories in my background about that. My dad, my dad's from the uk, played semi pro soccer, but he was great about it. When I was like, I'm not going to play soccer anymore and play basketball, he. He like bit his tongue. Yeah, he was like, my dad did

[Player AR]

what you want to do, it's great.

[Host]

Yeah, he's like, do what you want to do. It's great. But you could tell inside he was.

[Player AR]

Yep, he was.

[Host]

Yeah, that hurts. That hurts. But, but I want to hear more about your brother because I heard, I read, you know, I do do a little bit of research, right.

[Player AR]

Yes.

[Host]

But your brother had a big influence on saying, like, come hoop with me. Like, I see something, you tell me a little bit about that.

[Coach or Team Staff]

How many years older? Two, Two.

[Player AR]

Two years older, which I was supposed to be three grades younger because I, I mean, I graduated high school at 17. My mom started me early so I could play two years with him. So I moved up my freshman year and then played with him again my 10th grade year. But yeah, he, he fell in love with basketball when he was probably in seventh grade, you know, quit everything. He was a gym rat. He'd go to the gym every night. Like we're doing a town of a thousand people. He's probably 12, 13 years old, driving to the gym, which probably isn't legal, but yeah, so probably that's another story.

[Host]

I've never been through that.

[Player AR]

But yeah, no, he, he fell in love with it. And I was kind of still in the fringe of baseball. Like, I still love baseball. And probably going into my, like eighth grade year, he, I think he'd seen that, you know, I had ability. And I remember there was nights that he'd be going to the gym, you know, seven, eight o' clock at night, and he'd be like, you want to go? And I was like, not really. And he'd be like, you're coming anyway. Like, I had no choice. He'd drag me out of the house. We'd go shoot for, you know, a couple hours, and then he'd just beat me really bad, one on one. I think that it was a confidence builder for him, just wearing me out all the time. But, yeah, he. He's probably the biggest basketball influence in my life. You know, he instilled work ethic. He would always, you know, sit me down and be like, yo, like, you're from Newark, Arkansas, the town of a thousand people. You're gonna have to do more than everybody else. Like, it's not going to be easy like that even. It went to college. I remember going into maybe my senior year or junior year at Oklahoma, he pulled me to the side. We were working out, and he was like, what do you want to do with this? Like, do you want to just play overseas? He was like, you go play overseas right now. He's like, you don't have to get any better. He was like, you can go make some good money, play overseas. And he was like, there's nothing wrong with that, but if you want to, you know, be an NBA player, you got to do more. And so I did more.

[Host]

It was crazy. I have similar people in my life that's had the same. Similar conversations with me. But is he still open? He's 29 now.

[Player AR]

Yeah, he's 29. He plays in Germany. Yeah, he's. He's doing well. He started in. He started in Spain, I think, probably eight years ago now. Making nothing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

Grinded his way to the top division in Germany and just, you know, he loves it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

So, you know, I don't know how many more years he'll play, but, yeah, he's a. He's a basketball fanatic.

[Host]

Does he still, like, mentor you? Like, he still, like, watch your games

[Player AR]

and say, like, hey, he watches every game. And I'm probably not the easiest to talk to sometimes, but if I'm going through a rough shooting stretch, which he can shoot the ball better than, you know, 99% of the people I've ever met. So he does know, and he probably knows me better than I know myself. So he'll text me and be like, move it over the ride a little bit or shoot a little higher. Just little things like that.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's cool so far. Yeah.

[Player AR]

So I remember I was talking to one of our assistant coaches last year, and I was going, I think I was like, two for my last 27 from three. Going through it. And I was like, oh. Before the game, I was talking to Bo. I was like, don't worry. Tonight we're good. My brother fixed me. And he was like, what? And I was like, yeah. He told me everything I needed to do. I think I went like 6 for 8 from 3. He was like, tell your brother to keep texting.

[Host]

That's amazing. I mean, he's got a place to

[Player AR]

land after E. Smart.

[Host]

That's cool. When did. Was it that conversation with your brother when you were in college about the msi, when you were like, okay, I can play in the league? Like, when did you say, like, I'm an NBA player. I'm going for this? Or was that when you were a kid?

[Player AR]

I don't know. I mean, I always had, like, delusional confidence. And the weirdest story was, is like, I was like. Like I said, from a town of thousand people, there's nothing to do. So you hunt, you fish, you do like, you do all the country stuff. And I remember my. I don't remember this, but my mom's best friend at the time took me hunting one day, and we were sitting there talking, and she was like, what do you want to do? Like, I'm probably nine years old. And she was like, what do you want to do when you get older? And I was like, oh, I want to play in the NBA. And she was like, you mean the mlb? And I was like, nah, I want to play in the NBA. And she was like, it was the craziest thing because she was like, you played, but, like, you didn't really, like, actually play. But it really come to reality. I was at Oklahoma. Lon Krueger followed me out of practice one day and. And told me. He was like, I think you could be a first round pick. And, you know, he's been around basketball for forever. He's coach Buddy, Trey, Blake. I don't need any coach Blake. But, you know, seeing all this basketball, that.

[Host]

Was he in Florida, too?

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

So he's. He's seen everything. And once he said that, I was like, oh, like, this is. I got a chance.

[Coach or Team Staff]

And what do you think that, like, that delusional confidence come from Where? Where?

[Player AR]

Yeah, I'd like to hear more.

[Host]

And also, like, how did it then manifest, like.

[Player AR]

Yeah, I. I really don't know because. Because we've seen some.

[Coach or Team Staff]

A lot of delusional people that it actually didn't go. Thought it should go.

[Player AR]

Yeah. But there's like a There's like a delusional confidence. But also, like you, I still like, maintain, like, real life. Like, I don't go. I don't go outside reality. Yeah, yeah. I still have some.

[Host]

I gotta work.

[Player AR]

Exactly. I don't know though, because, like, growing up, like I said, it didn't matter what it was like. I never beat my brother in anything. He would beat me as bad as he possibly could, one on one. Then we'd go home, we'd play cards, we play video games. Like, we'd play. And my parents were the same way. They didn't let me win anything. It was no, like, poor Austin let him win one. I never won anything. So I learned to hate losing more than I love to win. So, like, it was like, do whatever you can to. Yeah. To get it done. Because I remember the first time I beat him in one on one. I took off running. I ran the house. I was probably like 12 or so. And he, he let me shoot wide open shots. He was like, you can't make enough shots to beat me. And I got hot and I ran in the house. He was so pissed. I was screaming. My mom was like, what's going on? But, yeah, I don't really don't know where it came from. It just, it was just there.

[Host]

Yeah. I think I like, you know, I was so far from the NBA, it wasn't even funny. Right. But I feel like I always thought, like, I'm willing to do the work if I. If I do it for a year, three years, five years, seven years, where could I be?

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Host]

So that was always my belief system. Did you, Was there a part of that for you too? Or were you just like, I just love to play, I want to keep playing.

[Player AR]

It started off that I just love to play and I was just going to see how far I could go. Like, it would. I didn't think I'd go. I didn't think I'd play Division 1 basketball. Like, I thought I would end up going Division 2 playing with my brother. Why I didn't have all, like, I was.

[Host]

What do you think it was about your game or your environment, experience that was like. Because you end up obviously getting offers. What was the gap there for you in your, in your environment?

[Player AR]

I didn't play au. I played one year au Exposure. Yeah. I think that was the main thing. And then you look at, I mean, you look, you look at me now and you're still like, you can't play basketball. But you looked at me then. I was 6, 5, probably 165, super skinny. And that was a lot of the feedback we got from coaches was he's not big enough, he's not strong enough, he's not athletic enough. But they make weights for a reason, so I don't know.

[Host]

That's good. Yeah, I mean, it's. Everyone's journey is different, right? It's crazy how everyone has a completely different journey, how desperate they could be. But like, what was, did you think was because you got to college. Like, I watched your clips in college and I'm like, that's a pro. Why do you think you weren't a first round pick? Like, do you think in your heart at the time.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Well, you know why.

[Host]

I'm not allowed to say it. Okay.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I know why.

[Player AR]

You know how that shit is.

[Host]

And I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.

[Coach or Team Staff]

No, they look at, they look, they, they look at the judge a book by his cover situation. Like I can, I saw the time.

[Player AR]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's not that, that guy that I'm seeing is not a, he's not an undrafted. There's no way that guy drafted, like, but it's.

[Player AR]

Come on, man. Yeah, I just, I think the draft too is. You got your top 15 players or whatever the lottery is, and then after that you just. I feel like teams just try to hit home runs.

[Host]

Right.

[Player AR]

And then my age was, I was 22, I think, coming out. So they're like, oh, especially in your era.

[Host]

Analytics, definitely.

[Player AR]

Exactly. So it's like, go, go young, go athletic. And I wasn't either of that. But I could help somebody win, obviously.

[Host]

Yes, yes, indeed.

[Player AR]

For sure.

[Host]

And when you was there, like a, like for me when I was trying to like get there, I was thinking like, maybe I'm not fast enough. Yeah, that was for you. Was that it? Fast or strength or what?

[Player AR]

Everything. There was many times I was like, oh, I gotta get stronger, I gotta get faster. Gotta get, you know, more athletic. But I realized real quick that if you can think the game, you can kind of negate some of that, you know, obviously I wish I had, wish I had that.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Do you remember all 58 guys that was drafted?

[Player AR]

No, I don't. I don't give a damn.

[Coach or Team Staff]

You don't give a damn?

[Player AR]

No, I don't. Do not.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's what makes you who you are, I swear. Yeah, I definitely would. I would remember every last one of them. Try to tear their ass up every time I play.

[Player AR]

I don't think I knew some of them.

[Host]

Never heard of them.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Definitely not around me.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

What year is this for you now?

[Player AR]

Five. Yeah, five.

[Coach or Team Staff]

They definitely not around. Yeah. There's no way. There's guys in the first round from probably five years ago. That's probably not worth a look at it. What Was that, the 21 draft?

[Player AR]

Yeah, I think so. There's some good players though.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

Good draft.

[Host]

Good draft. Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Host]

And now over to our producer Jason

[Narrator/Advertiser]

for a word from one of our partners.

[Sponsor Representative]

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[Host]

When was it where you were like, I know you had like, a little mini camp in Vegas, and obviously you got signed to a contract early. When was it? You're like, oh, I belong. And did you think before you got the contract you're like, oh, I belong? Or was it like more like in the season?

[Player AR]

No, I mean, the. The Vegas thing was the first step was like. But then again, like, it is the middle of the summer. It was playing three on three, so it's different. But then opening night, we played Golden State. Got my. Literally my first ever. Like, any level, any. Anything DMP didn't play.

[Host]

First time.

[Player AR]

First time ever. And I was like, what the hell? Like, I didn't.

[Host]

So you went in the game like, I'm going to play.

[Player AR]

I thought that I should have.

[Host]

Yeah, but from camp.

[Player AR]

Yeah, preseason. But, like, I. I understood why. But then game two, we were. We played Phoenix, and we were getting beat by like, 30 going into the fourth, and Frank was like, ah, go ahead. And out the gate. We. We made a run. And after that it was kind of just.

[Host]

Are you in that location?

[Player AR]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, there was a. There was a little, you know, stint towards the end of the year where I wasn't playing great. Got a couple more DMPs, but basically from there on out was in, you know, rotation consistently.

[Host]

Especially, like, you don't get those DMPs late, but you've already shown over the course of the year. And, you know, like, more work, more time. You're like, I'm doing this.

[Player AR]

Yeah. And I remember. I think it was. We got eliminated from the playing game and we were in Phoenix. We played Phoenix the night before, and I think we stayed and we were about to go somewhere and somehow summer league got brought up. And he was someone that said something to him or asked him something about summer league if I should play summer league. And he was like, no, just get in the gym all summer and just grind. And I was like, oh, perfect. I don't have to play bad basketball and just focus on myself.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah, it's a lot of bad basketball summer.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I mean, it's cool. I get it.

[Host]

Yeah. It's a necessary thing, but it's not for everybody.

[Coach or Team Staff]

It was not for him. No, no, Not. Not the way he was trending. It makes no sense to go out there and waste those few weeks where you could be using those for locking in on what he needs to be

[Player AR]

Locking in on, actually working.

[Host]

Yeah. What did you see in him early where you were like, I know the wiggle and stuff, but that first year, were you like, I see this.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah. I mean, it didn't take long for me. Like, it does not take long for me when it comes to talent, for me to recognize talent. But also like, I like iq.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's the one thing that I gravitate towards faster than anything. Everyone's talented in the area. Everyone has talent. No matter if you're the 15th guy, two way guy, you know, rookie, 15 year guy, it doesn't matter. Everyone has talent. We all here for a reason. But with my basketball mechanism and hard drive attached to is guys that know how to play the game. And it's a reason why, like he's saying he, you know, came into the league or whatever. He was 6, 5, 180, whatever the case may be bulked up a little bit now, but it's a reason why he's not the fastest, not the most athletic, you know, but he's averaging 25 a game. Yeah. And playing at a high level. And at any given night, he's number one on the opposing team depth chart of. This is what we got to take away. Once you start getting at that level, once you start being on opposing team's depth chart of like, scout, you got Luca, Arkansas, me, you know, this is. We got to take this away. If we can't give him no Arab space, we can't give him no, like, yeah, I could see the talent there, but also saw the knowledge of the game and the willingness to want to work. And that's.

[Player AR]

I'm.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

If you working, bro.

[Player AR]

If you want to.

[Coach or Team Staff]

If you work.

[Host]

IQ and work and sound skill.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I can't. I can't. How can I not love you? How can I not love you? I just. Just my makeup.

[Host]

Tell me about the playmaking. Were you in high school? Were you a playmaker as well, or were you more of a scorer?

[Player AR]

No, playing alongside my brother. My freshman year and sophomore year, he took the majority of shots. So my job.

[Host]

You had to get him the ball.

[Player AR]

Yeah, my job, we get him the

[Host]

ball, get out the way.

[Player AR]

That year we actually played like a. An actual white team. We ran set after set. We would get him threes after threes after threes.

[Host]

An actual white.

[Player AR]

Yeah. And then he left and we. We just had to. We just started running. We was like, we're going to press and run. But yeah, no, it was. I. I always wanted to be a point guard.

[Host]

Did you ever Play point. Like in any of those stages, like your freshman year, were you point for your brother?

[Coach or Team Staff]

Just.

[Player AR]

Yeah, I was. I was basically point guard from when I started playing basketball till I went to college. And then, you know, going to college, you know, you run into guys that are three or four years older than you, more physically gifted and better players at the time. And I never had a problem with buying into a role to help the team be successful. Like, my freshman year, I think I scored four points a game. I might have played 11 minutes a game. And then it just kind of trended, you know, forward after that sophomore year, got more time, was, you know, able to be myself a little more, but it was still all about what I could do to help us win. I felt like we had a really good team my sophomore year, Wichita State. We were, I think, preseason third in the country. Yeah, we. We had a really, really good team, but that all came crumbling down. We got beat first round of the tournament. But, yeah, it was from then on out, like, I understood that I'm going to run into guys that are better than me. Like, it's no different than in the NBA. Like, there's going to be times on a night basis where him and Lucas got it going. Like, what can I do to, you know, plug and play and help our team win? And I think that's the beautiful thing about basketball is you don't have to go out, score 30 to affect the game. You can do a lot of things.

[Host]

When you were a freshman averaging four a game, were you still like, I'm the best dude out here?

[Player AR]

Oh, no. I fried everybody in practice.

[Host]

You knew it.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

So it was like a matter of fitting into what the coach was expecting and all that.

[Player AR]

Yeah. I mean, the last thing I wanted to do was step on the wrong foot and not play. Like, that was.

[Host]

That's interesting.

[Player AR]

Yeah, that was my.

[Host]

Cause a lot of guys, if they're frying everyone in practice and they're getting

[Player AR]

put in a box, it wasn't easy. No, I know.

[Host]

But, like, it's. That's a strength to say, like, I can play this game. Like, you know, you want to put me in this box, I'll stay in the box. But I also am not going to lose confidence. I'm going to survive this battle. I'll fight another day. Like, there's a resilience to that. That's impressive.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because I think, like, it's interesting to hear you. You know, you go through those. Those times because you watch you play now and you see, like, you know, you. What the. The breadth of skills you have. It's almost like, man, what were we waiting for?

[Coach or Team Staff]

And I also want to know, like, who. Like, obviously you had your older brother, you know, along the ride, but, like, who inspired your game? Like, who inspired your game?

[Host]

Who was your favorite player?

[Player AR]

Like, my favorite player ever was Kobe.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

As you know,

[Host]

it was.

[Player AR]

There was not really any.

[Host]

Nobody. You were like, I want to play.

[Player AR]

Like, not really like that from. I always felt like I was diff. Like I. I played differently than everybody else.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Growing up in your town.

[Player AR]

Yeah. Like, I was. Because, like, people would be like, it's crazy. Like you're, you're. You're psycho. Like, the way you play basketball is not normal. And so like, I just. It was freedom.

[Host]

Like, what things were you doing that people are like, what are you doing?

[Player AR]

I. Some. One of my brother's best friends, he was two years older than me, and he went to a different school, probably 45 minutes away. And we, we would play them and he was really, really good high school player. And I was in eighth grade at the time. I was about to be a ninth grader. And he was like. We were playing him the next year and he was like, you have no chance. Like, I'm going to take it from you every time. And I will say still to this day, it looks. Sometimes it don't look the best, but like, I have full confidence that I not going to lose the ball. Like, especially, you know, dribbling, whatever. Like, I feel like I said it might not look normal.

[Host]

So he thought you were doing too much with the ball?

[Player AR]

Yeah, a lot of people did growing up. Like, even my parents would be like, you need to calm down a little bit. But I was like, this is natural. Yeah. So then I. Then I got out of my town and I seen other people really play. I was like, oh, this isn't actually that crazy.

[Host]

Right? Right. What excited me about playing basketball was like being creative, being expressive, trying, like trying to the game, try to beat your guy.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Like, try to get there.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Host]

Find a solution when you get there. Like all that stuff like that. It was never exciting to me though. I wanted to learn the fundamentals. I wanted to be fundamentally so sure. It was never exciting to me to like, come off this pin down and know when to fade and when to curl like that. Yeah, okay, I got that.

[Player AR]

You know what I mean?

[Host]

Like, I got that. But when can I break my man down and get in the guts and make a play? Like, that was what made me want to play Basketball every single day, for sure. Right? You felt the same.

[Player AR]

Yeah. Now, me. Me and my brother agree on a lot of things. And he would. In high school, he would always. He would ask me and be like, do you ever know what you're going to do? And I was like, no. Like, I'm not dribbling down the court thinking, like, I mean, obviously reading defense, whatever. But, like, if I see somebody in front of me, it's not like I'm going to go and be like, oh, I'm a hang across.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Right.

[Player AR]

If I hang and he bites on it, I'm gonna do. I'll figure something out after that. Like, there's no. Nothing's predetermined. Like, nothing's predetermined. And we talked about it a couple years ago. Like, those are the. I feel like the hardest people to guard because, like, you. You literally. You're not watching scouts. Like, oh, he does.

[Host]

He goes left every time.

[Player AR]

When he goes right, he's going to cross back, he's going to go between. There's literally. There's no telling what I'm doing. Yeah.

[Host]

One of the things I think. Yeah, but I mean, that's, man. I mean, that's where offenses have gone. Like, we're not running sets. We're just trying to play out a ghost game. And multiple actions play, fast, quick decisions. So it's like, you know, all those advantages. I mean, literally half the league's opening the funnel so we can just go and set the transition. So because it's harder to guard than if we run Fenerbahce greatest hits, we're just gonna switch all that and you're back to an ISO.

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

So it's interesting that it took us a while to, like, you know what I mean, Come around to that part being like, that's the heart of the game, is can you arm? Can you beat your man, Create an advantage. Yep. Which is, you know, it's fun. That's fun to watch. I think one of the things that you are either the best at the league, in the league at. Or use the best is a behind the back dribble.

[Player AR]

Yeah, I've heard some people's giving me credit on that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah. His rap game is crazy.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

The step rap. You just. You just fuck somebody up.

[Host]

You've done that all since you were a kid.

[Player AR]

Yeah, Always. Yeah.

[Host]

Because I think you use it to attack. You also use it to reset. Yeah. So you get stuck. They catch your first move. Sometimes it's a wrap to win, to get downhill. Sometimes It's a wrap to reset, and then you can hang. When you hang dribble, they got to close and you do your thing again. And so I don't know that anyone. Do you think anyone in the league used it as a rule?

[Coach or Team Staff]

This is definitely not a conversation for me, you two, when it comes.

[Host]

He didn't need to.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah, right. They use it behind the back. Dribble like. Like that. I mean, I. I mean, not off the top of my head.

[Host]

I think Luca actually used it really well, but more to get to a step back.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah. Get to a step back.

[Player AR]

A lot of people do it when they have two feet set.

[Host]

You do it in the middle.

[Player AR]

I can have. I can have one foot in front,

[Coach or Team Staff]

and it gives me Jamal Crawford vibes. Maul used to kind of do that as well without having feet set. Without.

[Host]

He could just improvise and go behind

[Coach or Team Staff]

the back, but not. But no deceleration, too. He's still accelerating. That's what makes it so unique. So he can come down full speed 100 rap and still be accelerating towards the basket.

[Host]

That, to me, is. That's the way it is explained, is that you can use it to go, you can use it to hang, you can use it to retreat. Like, you use it in any way. And I think that's the thing. Some people, like you said, do it when their feet are planted.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

You could also do it on the move, for sure. Both ways. It's fun to watch because that's tough. It's fun to watch because it is improvisational. You're never like, I'm going to go behind the back. Right. It's like, you're good out of jail.

[Player AR]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

Yeah. No, I mean, I feel. I remember Phil Handy.

[Host]

My.

[Player AR]

It was either my first or second year. He.

[Coach or Team Staff]

We know.

[Player AR]

We worked on a lot of the stuff, obviously, but he was. He kept telling me. He was like, you're one of the, you know, few people in the NBA that can actually change directions on one foot. Like, you can have one foot out in front of the other and either behind the back or cross or any. And he. He told me that's what he worked with Kyrie a lot with because he. Obviously, he did everything but just the ability to change direction with. Not a perfect, you know, bass.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, It's. It's fun. It's fun to watch. Like, it's like you mentioned Kai, but, like, guys that are able to do things slightly different all the time. The improvisation. Yeah. Then you add the playmaking. I think one of the things about your game that is beautiful to me is your finishing rate is really high. So you're. You get in the gas, but you finish at a high level. Not to be rude, it's not because you're challenging people on the rim, but you have a high foul rate. You can play in the mid middle. You have a midi game, flow game, layup game, playmaking game. So I'll relate this to me. I think why I was efficient is because I could pass and score and a different thing so I could play off each other so I didn't have to go. It wasn't all or nothing. When you get in the gaps, I could be like, oh, I can beat in the backboard. I get my layup, I got to take the run, I got the. I can spray it out, I can play, I can draw cell score and draw. So that allows you to be a high efficiency finisher. Because if not, every time I got in, I got to challenge dudes at the rim.

[Player AR]

Yeah. And then on top of that, like you said, the craftiness to be able to get fouled, like shot, fake, step throughs, all that, like, I would feel like, I mean, it's kind of like garden Luka, in a sense of. You have to be physical with him because he's, you know, obviously really strong, but he has every pass, his shot fake, and you don't want to foul him. So at the end of the day, like, trying to guard all three of those things is.

[Host]

Is tough, I think. I mean, obviously you did this in a million ways, but I think it's a great lesson for young players to understand. Like, you don't have to be like, I'm an elite finisher. You have to be able to, like, I have options. I can play cat and mouse. I hit the pocket pass, and then later, they don't want to give up the pocket pass. You attack. It might be a floater, it might be a lip, it might be a dribble under. You know, you might. The guy early comes from the corner playing cat and mouse, getting guys to know, like, oh, yeah, there's three or four options. So you make the decision for me

[Player AR]

in a way, and he. That person's going to be the one that the defenders are going to be the one to tell you what to do. Really?

[Host]

You just think attack.

[Player AR]

Exactly. They'll tell you, if he goes there, then you got the skip. If the lob's open, then that is. And if he don't want the lob, you lay up, float or whatever. So that's really kind of how I see it is like, okay, you don't want to foul me. And then I'm gonna let the, you know, defensive, whatever their schemes, help me figure out what I want to do.

[Host]

The fouling's the icing on the cake. Your high foul rate. Because I didn't. I didn't get to the line as much as I would have liked to. You get to the line at a high. I mean, I think for the. At least the first half of the year. Top four or five in the league.

[Player AR]

That was for a while.

[Host]

And you might. You might be.

[Player AR]

It's. It went down well.

[Host]

Your team got healthy.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Shit, I wish I could foul.

[Host]

Got healthy, honestly.

[Player AR]

Yeah, no, for sure. It's. It'd be nice.

[Coach or Team Staff]

It'd be nice to get to the free.

[Player AR]

It would be nice. You got foul so bad on the layup in the first quarter last night, bro.

[Coach or Team Staff]

He literally punched me in the stomach. It's crazy.

[Host]

Yeah, the gut punch.

[Coach or Team Staff]

No, no, like, open hand.

[Player AR]

Yeah. No, I think. I mean, I think that's an art of itself, is. It's. And it's not. Obviously. Everybody's going to be like, oh, you're foul baiting. Foul bait. Like, I try to use all of that in the sense of, like, to get me open. Like, I'm not really.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

I don't want to go in. Like, I just want to get fouled at 17ft and throw a hook shot at the road. Like, I. Because if I go to a low pickup and you have your hands down there, you're going to be scared to foul me. So you're going to back off. Yeah. Like. And if you don't, you're going to foul me. So it's more to get to where I want to go than it is anything.

[Host]

Also, it's like a. You. Why put yourself at a disadvantage? Oh, I go low pickup. His hands are going to try to avoid it. Now I'm off balance.

[Coach or Team Staff]

No, you.

[Host]

You have to rip.

[Player AR]

Exactly.

[Host]

And I always say this about. Luka does a great job of. This is dictating the way the game's going to be called for sure. He tells the ref right away he's not doing that. Yeah.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

By his play.

[Host]

Right.

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

Right.

[Player AR]

But it says a lot more.

[Host]

Yeah. My vocalize it a little bit.

[Player AR]

He started speaking Serbian last night. I was like, oh, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Coach or Team Staff]

He did.

[Player AR]

It was after he got his first tech.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

But there is a. There's an art to that. Like, there's an art to that, I think. Like of course everyone's gonna try to get a call. Yeah, we're all trying to figure this shit out.

[Player AR]

I'd be begging him to do it, bro.

[Coach or Team Staff]

It's not working.

[Player AR]

It don't work. It don't work.

[Coach or Team Staff]

It's over. You trying to teach old dogs tricks. It's over from. I used to get calls. I don't get calls no more. They look at, they just the same thing.

[Player AR]

Too strong.

[Coach or Team Staff]

We didn't see it or it was, it was more.

[Player AR]

That's, that's my favorite, that's my favorite word in basketball right now.

[Host]

We, we have a. I don't know when this is going to come out and versus the refereeing episode.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Host]

We talked a lot about like and it's not to kill the refs for sure. We could do that.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

But it's more about like the game's changing to where like you can blast a guy in the chest on offense and it's no call anymore. You can foul the hell out of someone outside the three point line, no call. Then they get inside, it's ticky tap.

[Player AR]

Like it's just a little bit of inconsistency.

[Coach or Team Staff]

It's just an inconsistency. Like they, they pick and choose.

[Host]

Well, it feels like they, they don't know yet what they want. Where are we going?

[Coach or Team Staff]

They don't know. Like the, the, the, the extended arm on the drive is so inconsistent depending on who you are, I guess. Like, you know, I was watching obviously when we played against Boston recently, you know, Jaylen Brown pro three times. Did it to our players right in the open and no call. And then we're down fucking 18 and a fourth and he does it. They call offensive foul.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

You know, we got a couple other guys in our league who consistently does it. And I was watching, I mean I really watch the games now these days, but I was watching Denver and Minnesota and, and Edwards drove, drove kind of, you know, gave the arm and on the way back he got his arm kind of pulled by Jamal Murray. They call offensive foul, you know, and then they. Minnesota reviewed it and it was still offensive file. So it's like what, where are we, where are we at?

[Host]

It's like when they go to the replay, you're not sure what they're gonna call.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I don't believe it's ever getting whatever the refs say it was. I think that's what it's gonna be. I don't like the fact that's another story. I Don't like the fact that we can allow someone all the way in, like fucking secaucious or somewhere. Determine what the call should be.

[Host]

So right here. Yeah, this is live.

[Player AR]

I've seen. I've seen many of clips when we're sitting on the bench and we're like, oh, is this. This will be over for sure. And then they're like, nope, no, it's

[Coach or Team Staff]

a guy in there eating the hand sandwich. Determine what the call should be.

[Player AR]

You know, I'm.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I'm the old guy now, man.

[Host]

So here's the thing. Why bother watching it back when we watch it back and we don't know? You don't like. Let's just keep it moving.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I don't get it.

[Host]

I'm a big soccer fan. That was my first sport. And there's they. Our review. The review in soccer is var V A R. Okay. Honestly, I think they it up on VAR more than they do in like, they watch it back. We spend four or five minutes and you're like, I don't know. I don't know how they came to that conclusion.

[Coach or Team Staff]

They brought a camera out on my ass last year in the postseason that I haven't seen since.

[Host]

It was this.

[Player AR]

He was up there.

[Host]

That was great. I was like, where's this? I've never seen that.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That camera since.

[Player AR]

Yeah, never. I've never seen it.

[Host]

That was.

[Player AR]

I didn't see it before or after

[Host]

they came from the government for sure.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Oh, my goodness. I was like, I've watched a billion games before and since. I've never seen that camera in my life.

[Player AR]

No, it was tough, but I mean,

[Coach or Team Staff]

it is what it is. I think one of the things that I. That I admire about AR's game too, that goes underappreciated too, is that his ability to create contact in the pain versus smalls versus longer wings and versus bigs. His ability without having to use that arm, using. Bump that shoulder, beat them to the

[Host]

point of contact, take their legs out or make them hit you.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Very clever.

[Coach or Team Staff]

And it sets up his footwork, his ability to bump here, get you off balance. And now he has the ability to use all the pivots. Sure, whatever. Pump fake. Because now you're trying to. You're off balance, so now you're trying to close the space so now he can step through and all those. You know, for a guy that you look at, you don't think as strong and think that could create contact. You will. You realize it once he hits you with that damn shoulder and you're sliding back four feet.

[Host]

Now, that's an art.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's an art.

[Host]

That's an art because you use that. Because, I mean, by NBA standards, you're not big and strong or fast, explosive, but you're big enough, strong enough, fast enough. And, you know, here's my advantage. If I hit him before he hits me.

[Player AR]

Yeah, it's all like. It's all timing, too. It's like. Yeah, there's. It's almost impossible to guard somebody if you're sliding and your left foot's in the air. If I bump you and your left foot's in the air, like, it's almost impossible unless you're just strong, like, real strong. It's almost impossible to stay on balance. And I think. I mean, I think that. That it helped me always being smaller than everybody and not as strong because I had to figure out how to use my body. And then when I finally did get, you know, some strength I could. It just made it better.

[Host]

Were you. Did you have a high foul rate in college, too?

[Player AR]

I got fouled a lot. No, I probably. I still probably shot. I probably shot six, five, three zero games. Yeah. In college. Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

For like 30.

[Player AR]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Right?

[Player AR]

For sure.

[Host]

You also, you, You. I feel like you, you love clutch moments. Yeah. Like, I feel like you, You. You can tell. Certain people are like, I live for this. Yeah. Were you like that as a 8th, 9th, 10th grader?

[Player AR]

Yeah. I mean, I always wanted to be. If we, I mean, if we win, like, cool. If we lose, like, I don't want anybody to think that it was their fault I missed or whatever the case may be. Yeah. I mean, I remember early this year and in Minnesota, tough. We. Yeah, we really. Yeah, we really dominated that whole second half.

[Host]

But you weren't playing him from the

[Player AR]

tv, and we dominated the whole second half. We played really well in the third quarter. And then, I mean, think about it. We had a closing lineup that had literally never played minutes together. So they went zone, things started getting tough, and obviously they take the lead by one. Julius Raddle makes a layup. And I remember going to the bench and sitting on the bench, JJ's drawing up, whatever, and we walk out and there's still probably like 20 seconds on the timer or whatever. And I just remember walking to half court and I was like, man, we would look like some idiots if we lost this game. And then I just was like, ah, we'll win. And then that happened, and it was just like, just a belief in every moment. Just, you know, think being able to Think positive when chaos is going on is something that I've been really good at throughout my whole career. Even when I was younger. Everybody just spazzes out when things get, you know, things get to move and you get to lose and it gets tough. But just being able to, you know, keep. Keep a level head at the moments.

[Host]

So do you feel like in. In high tension, it's almost like you slow down for sure. Yeah.

[Player AR]

Yeah. I just, like, I've. People watch too. You just look around. Everybody's going nuts. You know, even your staff might be going crazy. Sorry, J.J. but no, I mean, yeah, I think. I think just give me a look. Yeah. Just. I mean, anything. Like, it don't even have to be for me, but I feel like in any situation, if you throw the ball to me, I make something work.

[Host]

Incredible skill, right? To be calm in those moments.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah, that's not. That's not even. I don't even know if that's something. Anything you can. I guess it is. I think some people are kind of like, born with that attitude. It's something that you can grow into, but if it's something that you are. Are like, don't ever want to have.

[Host]

Right.

[Coach or Team Staff]

You can't then, like, hit the switch. Yeah, I want to be that guy. To be. No, it's either. It's either like you want to be put in that position, but you just haven't given that opportunity. They haven't given you that opportunity yet, or it's already in you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Yeah. That's a great.

[Player AR]

Be able to.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Just like you said, when shit is just haywire, you could just like, man, if I can get this opportunity, I'm a. It don't matter. Make miss, don't matter. I'm gonna be ready for the next opportunity as well.

[Host]

That's a great way to frame it.

[Player AR]

I remember the Dallas one when I had the game winner in Dallas my rookie year.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

I go to the corner and I have. I would have. If I'm not betting on games, if I could. Would have bet. I would have bet everything in my life.

[Host]

That's not the year.

[Player AR]

I'm not. I'm not tell Touching the ball and I'm standing in the corner and I forgot who it was on their bench. Was like, you don't want it? And I was like, I'm not going to touch the ball, but if I do is going in right before it happened. And I. I still to this day, I'm like, russ, why did you pass me the ball? But yeah, I Mean, just moments like that, like, you just. You got to accept it. Yeah. Make or miss.

[Host]

No. I mean, you both make great points. Because I think, like, you. It just seems innate in you that you calm down. And those moments. And it's like. It's like a. You're at your best. And those moments come. I think for me, it took me a while, like, to go through those times when I failed.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah.

[Host]

But. But, like, accepted it. Yeah. So, like, I gotta learn to do this. Yeah. Until where? Then it became almost like, I always say this, maybe a weird way of. But almost like a drug. Like, you want the end of the game, you want the tension, you want the. Like, the game on the line. It's like you're never more, like, alive. Your vibrations are never more.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I just always, like, early on in my career, I always hated the feeling of letting my teammates down. It didn't come.

[Host]

So you want it again? Give it to me. Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Like, I was like, if I missed or whatever, if I turned the ball over, if I didn't make the right play, either shot or pass or whatever, it was like, fuck. I just let these guys down. They trusted me to make it happen, and I didn't make it happen, like, early on in my career, that really got to me.

[Host]

Me.

[Coach or Team Staff]

And then I got. It just got to a point where it was like, well, they're putting you in this position because they trust you for a reason. They trust you for a reason, so there's a reason. Then I was like, it doesn't, you know, make, miss, pass. If I pass it, if I. If I shoot, it doesn't.

[Player AR]

You also learn that the end of the day, like, your teammate, they care, but, like, right, they. We're gonna live with him taking the last shot. We live with Lou, like, make or miss, it doesn't. It don't matter.

[Host]

Like, yeah, I always say, like, you die a thousand deaths, right? Like, you're gonna die, you're gonna miss.

[Player AR]

So accept that you die a lot.

[Host]

Yeah, right. I also tell young players all the time, like, go for it. Yeah, go for it. Like, you're wasting your time if you're. If you're scared you're not gonna get better, you're not getting more comfortable in those moments, you're not giving yourself a chance to succeed. So it's like, accept death for sure and then just go.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Go for the win.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

As a little kid, my dad would take me to my grandparents home in

[Host]

North London where he grew up.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I used to love walking from the house, through the park to Watch a Tottenham match. Soccer wasn't just a game in our family. It was everything. When you're there, you can really feel that passion, and it's contagious. You'd open a window and feel the excitement of match day and hear songs echoing through the stadium. Those trips shaped everything for me. My love of sport, family, tradition. Come to think of it, that house would have been perfect for hosting visitors

[Host]

on Airbnb during a big tournament.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

With the World cup coming this summer, fans from all over the world will be traveling to North America. And you can help create that magic I experienced as a kid in Tottenham by hosting your home on Airbnb. Why not earn some extra cash while making their trip unforgettable? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host in basketball, the best teams don't rush. They control the tempo. They know when to push, when to slow it down, and when to create space so the game comes to them. Travel is the same way. When you're moving city to city, season after season, you learn the biggest edge you can have isn't speed, it's control. That's why people who travel a lot talk about lounge access. With the American Express Platinum card, you can enjoy access to over 1550 airport lounges worldwide. The largest global airport lounge network compared to other credit card Companies as of July 2025, it's a calm place away from the crowds, a place to slow things down, enjoy thoughtful curated meals and settle in before your flight takes off. The destination. Before you arrive at your destination. When you control the tempo early, it, everything that follows feels smoother. With premium travel benefits and award winning service, there's nothing like American Express Platinum terms apply. Learn more@american express.com with Platinum,

[Host]

We're going to bring out a couple plays just to just a couple things you get the fans like your perspective on just things you're able to do with the ball situation. So we talked about this one. This is that game you guys go in the. The football formation.

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

Little bit of a misdirection to get in football. And then you kind of run a play. You could just run into the half court. Yeah.

[Player AR]

I mean the main thing was. Is to catch. Yeah. Catch and get Rudy lifted.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Lifted above the break.

[Player AR]

I was surprised that they didn't and just read it. But you know, once you get him, you know, he's obviously one of the best defenders in the league, but once you get him moving laterally, he's not as quick. If he, if he's standing in front of you, and you're trying to finish around him in the paint, it's almost impossible. But if you get him, I think DA Did a really good job here of actually, like, sprinting into the screen and creating that separation between.

[Coach or Team Staff]

And then getting a little piece of, too, just so you had that. That left, the right.

[Player AR]

Exactly.

[Host]

I always say, the way I explain this, too, is, like, when McDaniels can't touch you here. Now, Rudy's isolated. He's fully. He can't drop with the roller. He's like, I got to contain. And so Rudy goes from being the best defender on the court to one is in a tough situation because you can get downhill left, right. And at 7:2, it's hard for him to move his feet. So you take advantage here. You split. But it's interesting, right? Like, he's so fearful of your getting past him that he's opened his hips. So you split, which now his hips have to change back the opposite, which makes it even harder for him. So now he's recovering. So it's interesting to me. Dante knows this. He's like, now Rudy's in a tough spot here. And so he comes and so.

[Player AR]

But you read about right there. I was like, oh, I'm gonna run him over.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Player AR]

I thought I was gonna run him over.

[Coach or Team Staff]

He went right leg, right Florida, which is.

[Player AR]

I had to basically stop on it,

[Coach or Team Staff]

Stop on a dime.

[Host]

But this is the thing, though. You got a defensive player of the year, seven two long arms. But you got his momentum going. Yeah.

[Player AR]

He can't stop.

[Host]

Yeah. And then you go. Wrong leg floater. And Dante's an inch and a half.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

Two inches too late.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's so tough.

[Host]

And that's nothing but draws.

[Player AR]

Yeah, that one felt good when it left me. You had your first kid.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's the first thing that. That game winner right there. This is a Daddy's A bomb.

[Host]

Let's see what we got here. All right. Little double drag with LeBron Aiden. And so, for me, like, this is just the clip that shows. Again, we talked about earlier.

[Player AR]

You.

[Host]

They catch the move.

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

He's got you in between his feet. You go behind the back, look for the crack. It's close.

[Player AR]

I thought DA was gonna roll him down. Basically a gore top screen. And then I was gonna run. Who is that?

[Coach or Team Staff]

You gonna raise? Wendell?

[Player AR]

Yeah, I was gonna run Wendell right into both of them.

[Host]

Them?

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

And go around.

[Player AR]

Yeah, I was going to go on

[Host]

the top, but instead, basically, you got three defenders anyway.

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

And. But Then again, you used your behind the back to reset. And now you look at the two defenders and there's.

[Player AR]

I mean, there's no way Apollo. Yeah. There's no way Paulo can get on the bottom side of DA So if he just stops. Yeah.

[Host]

And so you make a great feed into space here. We're only. DA can get it. But what I love about this is I think basketball is about rim pressure. And so you don't say, hey, he's got me squared. You say, how can I get him on his heels? And you go behind the back, off the one leg, like we talked about, split, the gap, it gets closed. And that essentially is the rim pressure that draws two.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that allows DA to slide behind. And there's this whole pocket of space behind them. Yeah. Where you go back behind the back because you got them in jail. And then you can lead your partner into a ton of space. So for me, that's a brilliant play because your mind was rim pressure.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

And then that you sold basket. Yeah. And that created a vacuum in the underneath there where you drew, too. So maybe I'm using too many words, but.

[Player AR]

No, it's perfect.

[Host]

That's how I see the game. And big time, big time pass, but created by your pressure. All right, So a little LeBron swing, swing. So you realize like any primary scorer type player, like, I'm. No one's on me. And you could shoot. But again, I love that you're thinking rim pressure here. So he's got a clothes on you. And so you go, stick with me now. Make him guard. Okay. He does a good job. Good close. Pull it back out. Okay. It doesn't always work. Yeah, it doesn't always work. So now you get back. So then there's this gap you created by going behind the back. He has to close again, in a sense. And as he closes, you hang, cross, cross behind the back. That's the signature right there.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Hang, cross behind the back, scoop under.

[Host]

And then.

[Player AR]

I'm surprised AD didn't get that one. He didn't even go for it. I don't think he thought I was gonna shoot it.

[Host]

Right.

[Player AR]

Yes.

[Host]

It's just like the improvisation, the like belief in yourself that a lot of players would have been like, I got caught. Yeah, let me pick it up.

[Player AR]

Yeah. No, I mean, like you said, just using. Using that to basically get back to ground zero and then also create a little bit of space between me and him at the same time to re. Attack.

[Host]

Yep. And then great agility to get under him.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Smack that shit. Yeah.

[Player AR]

Yes. For sure.

[Host]

That's for someone else's film session. Yep.

[Player AR]

That's not ours.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's not ours.

[Player AR]

Phil Hay.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's for Phil Hayley's film session.

[Host]

He said, prove it, kid. So again, a little kind of late double drag. You look to play in the middle for a second draw two and just baiting them. Yeah. You know, you came off the first one. You thought, see, what I like about this is the second screen. I don't know if this is double drag. If it was a. So you thought, why would I just come off the second? I'm letting them set up. You said attack here.

[Coach or Team Staff]

And then it created a screen angle even better by him attacking down. He basically set up the lob right now. The lob is happening right now because. Because his defender has to close the gap because he can hang and shoot this if he don't close that gap. And now his defender's trying to get over. It's over with now.

[Host]

One way I like to. I mean, I don't need to re. Explain it. You explained it great. But one thing I like to say is you manipulated him like one. You would have gone to the hoop here if you got him clean. But the help helped. And what you did, though, is you got your defender between the screener's feet.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

And now he's stuck.

[Player AR]

And now he's stuck. Yeah.

[Host]

And then you can also see he can't touch you here.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I always say, when he can't touch you, guess who has to come

[Player AR]

guard you the big.

[Host]

Then. Yeah, we got problems. And if the. If the corner came.

[Player AR]

Yeah, you got the corner pass.

[Host]

So just a great job of manipulating here. And I love the way right here, you know, you got a lob, but you're. You sold the Luca pass.

[Player AR]

Yep.

[Host]

With the eyes.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

So that's nailed. Russ to the spot. He's going to be late here because you look Luca y. And so just that awareness to manipulate your guy, to manipulate the weak side.

[Coach or Team Staff]

That's tough.

[Host]

That's beautiful basketball. And then this is probably my biggest highlight.

[Player AR]

This is the one, by the way.

[Coach or Team Staff]

By the way. By the way. Just letting you know, I have no ideas what clips that we're going to show on the episode until he actually.

[Host]

But I would say, though, like, there's some great facial expressions.

[Player AR]

Oh, for sure.

[Host]

First, let's start with Braun.

[Player AR]

Can we start? Let's just start with why. Why is Braun even in the game right now? It's over.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I must have needed one rebound, one assist.

[Player AR]

Had to be it.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I think I got 19,000. One rebound, one assist.

[Host]

So coach Braun is given it as John Wilson. Wooden right here.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yep, Yep.

[Host]

Telling you what to do.

[Coach or Team Staff]

He's like. He was like, okay at first. He was like, okay. Yeah. And then whatever I said, he.

[Player AR]

He.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I. What the are you talking about?

[Host]

Yeah, well, no, I know what he's thinking now. He just told us. He's going, why the is he in the game talking about this right now? What are we doing? You sit your ass down. We got the job, dude, for sure. And you're still coaching. That's funny. Still coaching. That's one of the best clips.

[Player AR]

Yeah.

[Host]

Amazing clip.

[Player AR]

I remember he posted that after the game, and my followers went from like 60,000.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I'm sorry.

[Player AR]

7 million.

[Coach or Team Staff]

I'm sorry, man. The phone died. Fast as hell.

[Player AR]

We were in Philly, I was out of the Eva Ridge, and I picked up my phone and I just set it back down. I was like, I don't even know what's going on. God damn it.

[Coach or Team Staff]

My bad.

[Host]

That was cool.

[Player AR]

For sure. Appreciate you, man.

[Coach or Team Staff]

Yeah. I got the two coolest white boys in the town in the same week.

[Host]

You got White Boy Wednesday.

[Player AR]

Oh, my God. What the fuck going on?

[Coach or Team Staff]

I don't know, man. My community may give up on me next time I get one more white boy.

[Host]

We're gonna have to diversify it.

[Coach or Team Staff]

We gotta get Luke Cornette next. Talking about Magic City.

[Host]

We'll slam the laptop on that.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Thanks for watching Mind the Game. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Remember to, like, subscribe or follow wherever you're watching.