Loading summary
Transcript251 lines
- [00:02]
Credit Karma
No matter how you travel, it's good to have a plan. Some people plan every minute. No sleep, bus, museum, another museum. While others only plan to take it day by day. When it comes to your finances, a plan is just as important. You can count on Credit Karma to give you the insights you need to understand your options so you can take charge of your financial path and find your way to money. Explore how you can make financial progress with confidence today. Intuit Credit Karma. Karma you can count on.
- [00:31]
JJ Redick
You're 84, too.
- [00:32]
LeBron James
I'm 84. Yes, sir.
- [00:33]
JJ Redick
Yeah, we got bad vintages for always.
- [00:35]
LeBron James
One of the worst. Oh, thank you. Thank you.
- [00:37]
JJ Redick
Have you spent any time with Mark Dagal, by the way? No, bro, He's. He's ridiculous. He's so good.
- [00:45]
LeBron James
No, he's.
- [00:46]
JJ Redick
He's so good.
- [00:47]
LeBron James
Yeah, he's on his. He's young, too. Is he younger than us?
- [00:53]
JJ Redick
Yeah, I think he was. I think he's an 85. I looked it up the other day. He's definitely younger than us. Smidge.
- [00:57]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [00:58]
JJ Redick
Like that.
- [00:59]
LeBron James
Yep. All right, cool.
- [01:00]
JJ Redick
We're already rolling, so you guys just loud.
- [01:02]
LeBron James
Oh, we already rolled. This is what we do.
- [01:04]
JJ Redick
This is what we do. Welcome to episode two of Mind the Game podcast with LeBron James and JJ Redick, presented by Uninterrupted and 342-Productions. First of all, just wanted to say thank you for all of you who listened and watched to episode one. We greatly appreciate the positive response from all of the stuff that we talked about. There's a lot more of X and O stuff in episode two. The title of episode two is simply the hardest actions to guard in the NBA. No, not necessarily the hardest players to guard, but some of the best players in the world are involved directly in these actions, as you will see when we break it down. And two of the actions that we focus primarily on in this episode are the Golden State split screens and inverted pick and rolls. All right, before we get to the plays that we're going to cover, I want to go over some of the key terminology. All right, the first two words are tilt and fire. I want to be clear here. Every team in the NBA has a code word or a word for a double team. A lot of teams I played on, we had a color scheme. So blue was a double team from the nail. Green was a double team from the baseline side. In this case, tilt and fire represent those colors. Tilt means in a post up a double team from the baseline side. Fire means in a post up a double team from the nail, and of Course, we covered what the nail was in episode one. Next two terms are hedge and blitz. So these are common terms in pick and roll coverage. Now in the NBA right now, not a lot of teams hedge in pick and rolls. A hedge is simply when the screener's defender jumps out past the screener and tries to reroute the ball handler around the screener's defender and then the screener's defender will retreat back to the screener again. Not a lot of teams do that, primarily because everybody can shoot the basketball. Sometimes in inverted pick and rolls, or sometimes as teams are targeting matchups, certain players will hedge. So for instance, if LeBron James is being guarded by Jonathan Kaminga and he wants to get a switch for Steph Curry, he will have whoever is guarding Steph Curry come set a pick and roll. And more times than not, Steph Curry will hedge, reroute LeBron, and then return to his man. That is what a hedge is. A blitz is simply a double team on a pick and roll. All right, a ghost screen, or as LeBron calls it, a bluff screen. A ghost screen is simply when you run into set a pick and roll, and you essentially don't stop, but you just run past the pick and roll and you either go to the three point line or you slip to the basket. That's essentially what a ghost screen is. It's a go screen because you're not really there. You're essentially just trying to create confusion for the two defenders involved in what looks like a pick and roll, but is actually just a ghost screen. Tag and two, nine go hand in hand. We have a defensive three second rule in the NBA. So as a defender, you're only allowed to be in the paint for three seconds without guarding anyone. There's two ways around this. You can tag a cutter, which simply means touching a cutter as he goes through the paint. 29 is simply a game of cat and mouse. How long can you be in the paint in a help position while not guarding anyone, but not get a three second violation? 1 1000, 2 1000. You're trying to be in and out in 2.9 seconds. That's what we mean by 2, 9. So when you're watching a game and you see a player with one foot in the paint, one foot out of the paint, one foot in the paint, one foot out of the paint. Almost like a tap dance. He's 2 9ing. A couple other simple terms. Backside, weak side, strong side. Strong side is simply the side of the floor where the ball is. So if a Player is on the right wing. The right side of the floor is the strong side. If a player's position in the corner while that player has the ball on the right wing, then the player in the corner is on the strong side of the floor. If a player is in the left corner opposite the ball, the other side of the court he's in the weak side. Backside is a little bit interchangeable with weak side. Backside is also a play where a player starts in a corner opposite the ball. Let's say the point guard passes to the five man at the top of the key. The player in the corner then receives a pin down and comes along the three point line and gets a dribble handoff from the five man. That's backside. Think Manu Ginobili in San Antonio. Or even better think JJ Redick in Philadelphia. All right, I want to go over what is called a varijau screen. A Varejao screen is actually named after LeBron's teammate in Cleveland, Anderson Varejao and all. A Varejao screen is is when a screener flips the side and angle of the screen. Let me show you. In this case, the X's are the offensive players, the O's are the defensive players. So in this case, the big man would run into this pick and roll. The defender would follow and as he gets to the screen, instead of setting the screen on this side where the offensive player would get to his right hand, he simply flips the angle on the screen side and varajows it. And the offensive player gets to drive away from the defense because most of the time this defender of the screener has followed and is assuming he's going to provide help defense on this side. Berjau chaos ensues. Okay, Blind Pig is something that we reference. Blind Pig is a triangle offense concept. I had to guard this concept playing against the Lakers. Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant would oftentimes be the two players involved in this. And then against the Knicks, oftentimes it could be Carmelo Anthony involved. Raymond Felton, Jeremy Lynn, essentially what Blind Pig is. The ball is right here with this player. Here is your offensive player, the X right here. O's are the defensive player. The X is being denied. This is Kobe Bryant, and this year this is Jalen Brunson. Isaiah Hartenstein will flash to the elbow. The ball then goes to Isaiah Hartenstein, right here. Jalen Brunson, who is being denied, then has a clear path to go receive the ball or get a drop off, pass, dribble, handoff, whatever Turn the corner, create havoc. Blind pick. All right, Golden State post splits a big part of this episode. We have so much visual component to this. You guys hopefully will understand this at the end. Again, this is another triangle concept. Let's do a two man post split to start. How about that? So here's the ball. The ball goes into the post. Now this pass for Golden State is not to score. This pass is to get Steph Curry and Klay Thompson into the action. So Steph can split with Klay Thompson, Klay can back cut towards the basket. He can curl towards the basket or he can come pop for three. And that's only one option. There are many options in this offense. Let's say Kavan Looney wants to get involved here. They throw it into Draymond Green. Steph goes towards Klay Thompson. Maybe Klay Thompson curls to the basket. Kavan Looney then cleans up Steph. Ball comes out to Steph. That's post splits. It's impossible to guard. The other thing I just wanted to tell you guys on this episode for these drawings, Mav drew these. I did not draw these courts. This clip went out on social America's play. Baseline, out of bounds, pick the picker, whatever you want to call it. This guy underneath the basket on a baseline, out of bounds play B, O, B, baseline, out of bounds. There should be an extra O, but who cares? It's just B, O, B. This guy right here, that's the shooter. This is Kyle Korver. This is Steph Curry. This is Ray Allen. This is. This is Duncan Robinson. He's going to set a back screen right here. A rip screen for a bigger wing. Usually. Maybe you get a switch, maybe you don't. Maybe you get a layup here underneath the basket. This guy in the corner over Here, this is Bam. This is DeAndre Jordan with me. This is Joel Embiid with me. This big guy then goes and sets a screen for the shooter to come off towards the three point line. So if you don't get a layup, you might get a three in the corner. America's play. Pick the picker. The other concept that we talk a lot about this episode is inverted pick and roll. Pick and roll. As most basketball fans know, it is simply a ball handler. Usually a point guard getting a ball screen. So a live ball dribble from a big guy, a five man right, a center. Think Kenny Smith and Hakeem Olajuwon. Think John Stockton and Karl Malone. Think Kobe and Shaq, right? It's a pick and roll. A normal pick and roll. The smaller player has the ball, the bigger player sets a screen for him. Inverted pick and roll is simply what when you invert that. In this case, a bigger player has the ball and a smaller player oftentimes a really good shooter sets a ball screen for the bigger player. Very rare that big guys can do this, but certainly a lot of them can. Joel Embiid, Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis, Giannis. Of course, bigger wings will also run inverted pick and rolls. So this is Duncan Robinson setting his pick and roll for Jimmy Butler. This is me setting a screen for Ben Simmons. That is an inverted pick and roll. We actually had a call in Philadelphia. It was called 12 rub rifle. So 12 was just a one, two pick and roll. I'm the two man. Ben was the one man. Rub was our name for a high pick and roll, which means in the center of the court rifle. I'll get to that in a second. So an inverted pick and roll would be the smaller player setting a screen for Ben Simmons. Right. If I set a good screen, Ben could get all the way the basket. Sometimes I would slip to three, though in that case, Ben would throw me the ball. And sometimes like against San Antonio spurs, late in the game, I would make the shot and get fouled and have a four point play to hit a game winner. But other times this would be Joel Embiid. This is the rifle part. The rifle just means chase action. Sometimes the definition of a concept is in the word. If I said go chase the ball, what are you gonna do? You're gonna pass the ball and run after it. So 12 rub rifle is a inverted high pick and roll followed by chase action. So if I didn't have a shot, I would throw the ball to Joel Embiid and we'd go right into chase dribble, handoff. 12 rub rifle. Miami Heat game four 2018 playoffs dagger. Do you look at basketball as a puzzle in some ways? I was with Missoula in September. He said competition is a puzzle and you have to approach it through intellect. And what I find when I talk to you, or when I talk to CP or I listen to you guys, Rondo, of course, who we had on the pod last year. It's like it's exploitation. I used the word manipulation once with Chris and he did not like that word. So I'm gonna use a different word today. It's exploitation you're exploiting. And sometimes it's maybe basketball iq, sometimes you're maybe exploiting a matchup. I know that I was exploited A lot at the end of my career, because by that time, it was about target hunting. And oftentimes when I was on the court, I was the target.
- [14:59]
LeBron James
It is like, pick on the white guy, huh? Bullshit, man. I don't like that, man.
- [15:05]
JJ Redick
It bothered me so much. I mean, I remember, dude, when I was with Philly and, like, ended up not playing you guys in the playoffs, but, like, that first year in Philly, because I was guarding point guards that year because Ben wasn't good enough on the ball yet, right? They had him guarding bigger wings, so I had to guard point guards first time in my career. So, like, all of a sudden, I'm navigating a pickup point with Damen Lillard.
- [15:30]
LeBron James
People would never understand that either, by the way. Yeah, people. People that just watch casual basketball would never understand if you've been guarding two guards or small fours or whatever your whole career, and then one year you have to make the shift to now guarding point guards. It's a whole different. Your antennas is now like.
- [15:51]
JJ Redick
It was so different.
- [15:52]
LeBron James
Screens are coming. You're not used to getting hit with screens, you know, like, it's a whole different. If the big don't talk to you, get cracked you like, what the fuck are you guys doing back there? And nine times out of 10, most bigs are not gonna talk anyways. No.
- [16:03]
JJ Redick
I remember there was a game with, like. With Charlotte and Kemba Walker. You know, he's a shifty.
- [16:09]
LeBron James
He's a shifty.
- [16:11]
JJ Redick
He's doing that little left drop, and I'm like, come on, man. Like, what am I supposed to do? But we were. I remember we played you guys a few times that year, and I'm. I'm on the point guard, and you're just like, come here.
- [16:22]
LeBron James
Every time. That's T. Lou, man. No, that's not me. My basketball IQ is not that good.
- [16:31]
JJ Redick
But I think. I think part of it. It's not for me, at least as like, a. When I played, of course, but also as an observer now part of the matchup thing. So if I go switch on you, right, you've now got a favorable matchup. Part of it is not just so that you can get a shot. Part of it, like basketball boils down to, can you put two on the ball?
- [16:56]
LeBron James
Yeah. And now you create the four on three on the backside.
- [16:58]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [16:59]
LeBron James
I don't think many people know that. You know why? Because everyone now is a narrative of this thing called I have a bag or he doesn't have a bag. It bothers the fuck out of me. Everyone thinks just because you get a favorable matchup that it means it's one on one time. Let's play ones. That's all you hear the kids talk about now. You want to play ones? You want to play ones. What the fuck is this? This is not a. This is not Jordan versus Bird, Nintendo. Like it's five on five. And yes, if you have an opportunity to have a favorable matchup and you can beat your man, but realize something, most great teams are going to send help. And can you make the right reads? Can you make the right reads? Can you instill confidence in your teammates to win? You've scored twice on that favorable matchup. Do you know that the double is coming? And you have to see it either coming from the tilt on the baseline or from the fire from the nail. You have to be ready for that. And it takes time for guys. And some guys don't want to learn and won't learn because they just want to play ones. I've had guys on the court that literally said to me before, why y'all doubling me? Stop doubling me. Let me play ones. You have 40. No, no, you have 40. We're going to w. Not because, not only because you're great, but also I, I know none of your teammates have been in a rhythm all game, and we're going to see if they can make a shot and if they do. Derek Jeter, salute. Cap to you.
- [18:53]
JJ Redick
Two things on that. I think the Clippers game the other night was a great example of that. So first of all, they're one of the most switch heavy teams in the NBA.
- [19:01]
LeBron James
They are.
- [19:01]
JJ Redick
So it wasn't abnormal that you got going in the fourth quarter and they were switching Daniel Tyson to you. That is their normal defense, right?
- [19:08]
LeBron James
It is, it is.
- [19:09]
JJ Redick
So you hit a couple shots on him, then they start doubling, right? And then you're making the read. There's like a, there's a, there's a downhill or like a snowball effect going down a hill to this, right? It's like one thing leads to another. So I think in some ways the player has to establish that he can score in that matchup.
- [19:29]
LeBron James
Correct.
- [19:30]
JJ Redick
And then the next part is he has to establish he's going to then make the right read. If you double correct. Then all of a sudden if you're the offensive team, all bets are off. You're going to get whatever you want.
- [19:41]
LeBron James
You're going to get whatever you want.
- [19:41]
JJ Redick
Then because the defense has no choice.
- [19:43]
LeBron James
There'S nothing they can do. Then they're not only Are they off balance? They dislike. Oh, shit. There's nothing we can do because not only is the guy that's been dominating the one on one matchup making the right reads individually in that matchup, he's been scoring, he's been getting fouled, he's been drawing attention. But now you're seeing the double. And now his teammates are making shots too, and the momentum shifts the. The offensive team. There's nothing they. There's nothing they can do wrong.
- [20:12]
JJ Redick
Do you think teams concede the switch too much? Like, do you think teams switch too much?
- [20:16]
LeBron James
Yes.
- [20:17]
JJ Redick
Do you think more teams should just. If you. If you're Atlanta, should you just hedge with Trey Young?
- [20:22]
LeBron James
Absolutely. Absolutely. We. We. It's funny you say that. In the Clipper game, we had. We had switching built in verse Kawhi and. Versus James and whatever the case may be. And I vetoed it in the second half because I know T. Lou more than any other player that's ever been with T. Lou. And I know he plays target ball too. And it got to a point where I knew in order for us to get back into the game, switching anybody else into Kawhi, it's not favorable for us. Might as well just get ready for the Wizards. So I vetoed it.
- [21:09]
JJ Redick
Are you able to do that on a nightly basis, though? Like, take that. That matchup. Asking a lot, LeBron.
- [21:18]
LeBron James
It's asking a lot at 39. I think I saw it the other day. I think I have like 73,000 minutes. I was explaining to my wife the other day. She asked me, how am I feeling when I came home after a game? I said, babe, just imagine buying a 2003 Escalade and it's 2024. And you never change the tires, so rub my feet, please. And I've never changed the tires. These are the same tire from 2003. So can I do it every night? I don't wanna say I could do it for a whole game. I mean, I can't. I'll take the challenge for sure, but that's just. I'm a competitor. I was born that way. I was taught that way. I fucking. I'll die on the court because I just love it so much. Am I being realistic? I gotta pick my spots. Definitely got to pick my spots.
- [22:24]
JJ Redick
You've also picked your spots, though, on the offense, Ben. Like, I was talking with Darvin about this and I've spoken with Austin too. There's definitely a stronger ability. I don't want to know if ability is the right word, but a Stronger ability, like, to just let DLO run the offense, to let Austin run the offense. And I know you had that at different points in your career with different guys, but it seems like you're more content at this stage in your career to, like, I'm going to pick and choose my spots about when I'm the primary creator.
- [22:59]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I, yeah, it comes with trust. It comes with trust, too, obviously. Last year in the Memphis series, AR gained a lot of trust for me, but also had trusted him to make the plays. I believe it was game three, maybe, or game two. I think they had home court. Yeah, they had home court. So it was either game one or game two, where in the fourth quarter, I, you know, just was like, ar, let's go win it for us, you know, And I wanted to see, like, it's. I play a lot of chess, not in real life. I've actually, you know, a lot of people have told me, you should look, you should play chess, because you'll be great. I've never played chess, but in my, in my mind, in theory, I feel like I play chess on. And I felt like if I could get AR and instill AR and that confidence in that fourth quarter to make plays and win that game, it was just going to pay dividends for the rest of my time with him and the rest of his time when I'm not with him. You know, I love seeing the success of my teammates more than anything, like. And so to have the ability now to be just like, I pick my spots. Hey, dlo, you got it. You know, ar, you got it, you know, you know, it means a lot, not only for me, but for our ball club.
- [24:21]
JJ Redick
All right, I'm going to go over these blitz numbers because we're talking about two on the ball. And this is.
- [24:25]
LeBron James
I.
- [24:25]
JJ Redick
This is interesting. So this year, top five players that have been blitzed in pick and roll. Luca by a lot, by far. Almost 200 more blitzes, and then everybody, the next four guys are bunched together. It's Brunson, Anthony Simons, Dame and book. Top 5 by ISO, Giannis Kawhi, Julius Randle, Anthony Davis and Ben Caro.
- [24:48]
LeBron James
Those are the top five ISO guys.
- [24:50]
JJ Redick
It's interesting. I looked up your blitz numbers in the tracking era, and you were first in ISO doubles in 13 and 14, second in 15, 16, and top 10 in 17, 18 and 19, 20. You've never actually been in the top 20 in blitzes against pick and rolls. Why do you think that is?
- [25:10]
LeBron James
Because I make all the Right. Reads.
- [25:12]
JJ Redick
I think it's that simple.
- [25:14]
LeBron James
It's that simple. Teams know they can't blitz me to pick a roll.
- [25:17]
JJ Redick
But there's what's interesting about Luka. I think he's one of a handful of guys in this era that can make any pass against a double team.
- [25:27]
LeBron James
Any.
- [25:28]
JJ Redick
James is one of them.
- [25:29]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [25:30]
JJ Redick
You. You are, for sure. Luka is one of them.
- [25:32]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [25:33]
JJ Redick
So why are you blitzing him?
- [25:36]
LeBron James
I don't understand it, especially with the shooting. They surrounded me too. It doesn't make sense.
- [25:42]
JJ Redick
Like, I get the Brunson. The Brunson thing has been since Randle's out, the uptick in blitzes.
- [25:46]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, they don't have that.
- [25:48]
JJ Redick
I get that.
- [25:48]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure.
- [25:49]
JJ Redick
I get that.
- [25:49]
LeBron James
I get that as well. You know, you have to. He's a one head monster right now with the Knicks and they blitzing him and making other guys beat him. I saw Golden State do it a lot last night as well, before our game. But yeah, it doesn't because he's going to make every read. And when Tim, Tim Hardaway is hitting six or seven threes, you're done. Kyrie's going to get what. Kyrie's going to do what Kyrie does. Yeah. Luka's going to do what he does when you get Tim Hardaway hitting six or seven threes. And in our game earlier this year, we blitzed Luka and Dante Exum hit five.
- [26:26]
JJ Redick
Oh, that's right.
- [26:26]
LeBron James
Six threes. Yeah, that. That.
- [26:33]
JJ Redick
I guess what's interesting to me with great players, because everybody always talks about mixing it up. You got to mix up the coverage.
- [26:41]
LeBron James
And pick and roll.
- [26:42]
JJ Redick
You got to mix up how you double when you double, all that stuff. Right. So, for example, just so we're clear on this, when you double. By that, what I mean is, but guys in the mid post, in isolation.
- [26:53]
LeBron James
Against the mismatch, is it on a dribble?
- [26:55]
JJ Redick
Is it on the dribble or is.
- [26:56]
LeBron James
It on the catch?
- [26:56]
JJ Redick
Yeah, exactly how you double. Is it, as you said, tilt? Is it coming from the baseline or is it coming from the nail? Right. You have to. You have to talk about all those things. I just think with spacing and with shooting, there's just no good answer. So if people want explanations about why we're having all these scoring outputs, it's because there's not a good fucking answer. No, Atlanta Blitz is the most in the NBA. They decided not to blitz Luka Doncic because they were worried about the consequences.
- [27:23]
LeBron James
And he had 73 and he has 73.
- [27:26]
JJ Redick
Right. There's just not good answers for the best players right now.
- [27:29]
LeBron James
No, and it's the, it goes back to the three point shooting. As you said, teams are afraid of teams hitting six or seven or eight threes in a game right now. So this is where all the switching occurs. Now everyone's saying, okay, let's get to the switches, at least we will keep everybody home. But then you realize when you switch a non favorable defender on a great player, if that great player knows gonna make the reads, they're gonna get threes anyways because they're gonna drive. There's gonna be a help and then there's gonna be a numbers game. So it doesn't matter. So it has to come to a point. It's like what are we willing to give up? Not what are we willing to stop? You can't stop great guys. You can't stop great players. Just hope they miss. But what are we willing to give up? And then you have to just tip your head like these scoring outputs is insane. I wish I was back in like 2012 right now with the young Lex.
- [28:34]
JJ Redick
With the young, young tires.
- [28:35]
LeBron James
Young tires. Young tires.
- [28:36]
JJ Redick
Yeah, the tires with only £11,000 on them. The switching thing is interesting too to me because there's certain teams that can put switch heavy lineups out there, right? Yeah, you need the personnel. You need the personnel and you need to be able to trust certain guys. So like Tyloo clearly trusts his bigs to be a switch to the point like going back to Luka. I played on that team in 21 that lost in game seven against the LA Clippers and he trusted Zubots to switch onto Luka that entire series despite the fact that Luka was killing him because he didn't want to get in rotation. Right. So what's interesting to me though about the switching against switchable lineups like so you have five guys that are capable is how creative teams have gotten with defeating the switches. So it's two of the hardest actions to guard to me right now are ghost screens with a great shooter and running into a pick and roll. It's not a traditional slip, Right. You run into a pick and roll, you touch the guy's back and then.
- [29:41]
LeBron James
You get behind the defense.
- [29:43]
JJ Redick
And if you have a guy like Kristaps Porzingis or Jason Tatum that is doing that.
- [29:47]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [29:48]
JJ Redick
You can't guard that. So you could be like, oh yeah, we're going to switch. Teams have now figured out ways to exploit switching.
- [29:54]
LeBron James
I mean even, I mean, I know Washington is in the shitter. But even last night, in our, in our, in our matchup last night we got to a switching lineup. But Cuz was hip tapping AR and we were calling switch and AR two times, couldn't get back to Kuz and he was able to get into the lane. He missed one, made one, but exactly what you're just saying, like teams are figuring out ways to when the switches happen. How can I exploit a switch?
- [30:26]
JJ Redick
That's interesting. You brought up the hip tap too. So like on the ghost screen, you called it a bluff screen. The ghost screen, like you guys used to. When I was in New Orleans, kcp, I'd guard him. He would do this all the time. So let's say we are in a switch. Defensively, we're in a switch. If the guy slips on a ghost screen, my job is to go with him.
- [30:48]
LeBron James
Yeah, call square, right, square, square, slip, slip.
- [30:51]
JJ Redick
But offensive players, as they're running up into screen, they tap the guy on the hip. So you're switching on, you're supposed to switch on contact. Where you feel the contact, you think it's a switch. Now the ball handles it.
- [31:01]
LeBron James
Now I'll open up and I'm doing.
- [31:02]
JJ Redick
My job because he slipped. So I'm going with him. That's why it's hard.
- [31:06]
LeBron James
That's why it's hard in real time.
- [31:07]
JJ Redick
It's like, yeah, we can have all these rules, but then you gotta, you gotta do it real time.
- [31:10]
LeBron James
That's why the NBA is the best league in the world. That's why it's hard for me to watch my son play college basketball.
- [31:17]
JJ Redick
You want to go there?
- [31:20]
LeBron James
Why is it I loved you in college basketball? I fucking hated Duke, but I love watching you. I love Duke now. Cause K is my guy now. Obviously, for obvious reasons. But it is hard watching a 40 minute college basketball game. It's hard. I almost, I get more anxiety and I sweat more watching college basketball, especially my son now than I've ever done in my life.
- [31:47]
JJ Redick
I still watch legitimate teams, ranked team, they will run a play and their best player will get the ball on the wing. And they will have a non threat big man posting up on the same side. And the guard or the wing will drive into the occupied post and I'm like, Guys, it's 2024. We can all watch YouTube. There's a wealth of information out there. Why are we still playing this way?
- [32:26]
LeBron James
I've never understood why a coach will throw the ball into a post to his big. That has no business with the ball in the post. The only time the ball should go into the post to the big. If he's automatically, as soon as he catches it, flatten the defense. He goes right back into a dho. Uphill, Uphill DHO roll. If he's not a pocket passer, you can't throw it to the. You throw it to the rim. Or his job is to just shrink the defense because his role was so dynamic. I watch college games and I see guys throw the ball in the poster guys and they turn around and shoot a jump shot or a running left hand jump hook.
- [33:11]
JJ Redick
This one, this one drives me crazy. You see like a few young NBA guys that will get like. Because we don't post anymore. Unless you're like Joel Embiid and Jokic. Right. You see young NBA guys will get a rebound and the defense will be on them and they'll shoot, you know, the shot. I'm talking about the big guy shoot. It's like. It's not a real shot, man.
- [33:28]
LeBron James
It's not a real shot.
- [33:29]
JJ Redick
It's not a real shot.
- [33:30]
LeBron James
It's not a real shot.
- [33:31]
JJ Redick
There's one, there's. There's one other thing you can do in the post, which leads me to God. Fucking segue is so good, man. I love it.
- [33:36]
LeBron James
It's a good conversation.
- [33:37]
JJ Redick
No, it's great people. Somebody asked me this the other day. They're like triangle concepts. Nobody, Nobody has. Nobody runs the triangle anymore. Right. Does it exist in the NBA? And the truth of the matter, there are still concepts that exist. So we don't. The Chicago cut, which was when you throw it in the post, the guard would cut through screen in the middle of the paint for the big guy. You don't want to switch that. If you do switch it, you know, Pekovich from Minnesota would catch the ball at five feet against me and just jump hook. Right. Easy breezy.
- [34:06]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [34:06]
JJ Redick
Teams don't really run the Chicago cut anymore. The two things that they still run. Blind pig.
- [34:12]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [34:12]
JJ Redick
Which New York runs for Brunson all the time. Where Hartenstein or Mitchell Robertson flashes to the elbow. You deny Jalen Brunson. He's getting that back cut. Going downhill, they'll get into the step up picker roles with Blind Pig action. Right? And then the Golden State post splits.
- [34:27]
LeBron James
The splits.
- [34:28]
JJ Redick
The post splits.
- [34:29]
LeBron James
The post splits.
- [34:30]
JJ Redick
I have been wanting to have this conversation with you for so many years because I have said the Golden State post splits specifically with that team is like the hardest action to guard. I was doing research on something else the other day and I Was looking up because I was for a Boston game. Because Porzingis has the highest efficiency in the tracking era for points per direct post up.
- [34:54]
LeBron James
Right.
- [34:54]
JJ Redick
He's. Every time they switch smaller guy on him, he's mashing whatever. Draymond was at the top of the list for a bunch of years. In 1819, he had the highest efficiency on post ups of any player in the NBA. And you're like, well, Draymond doesn't score in the post, but they're throwing him the ball. And either Steph and Claire running their action. We saw back in 22. Wiggins would be the screener slip for the dunk. They also involved the big. So Steph and Claire are doing their little dance.
- [35:21]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [35:21]
JJ Redick
Looney then comes and cleans up.
- [35:23]
LeBron James
Yep. Because the big. That's Gar Looney is sitting in the damn paint.
- [35:26]
JJ Redick
Yep.
- [35:26]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [35:26]
JJ Redick
Exactly. The hardest thing to guard, you guarded at four straight finals.
- [35:29]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [35:30]
JJ Redick
What are your thoughts on how to.
- [35:32]
LeBron James
Defend it when Draymond catches the ball in the post? The one thing, the first thing you have to do, you have to track his eyes. You can't track the ball because Draymond has the ability what they kind of. They. They started to take out in our league. There's a swipe through, so obviously he has his back towards the basket. You have to track his eyes because if you track the ball with your hand, he'll go underneath your arms. He used to get that foul. The second thing you have to do, you have to get the bodies right away. And you can't get to the top side because Steph and Klay are great at backdoors. And get to the rim. You have to get to the lower hip of them. And whoever setting the screen has to give a little space so you don't allow it to slip. And the guy that's guarding either Steph or Clay that's coming off, you have to get to the bottom hip of their shoulder and trail them all the way out. The two most important people in the whole thing is the two guys that's weak side. When they have those. When they have certain shooters out there, it's very difficult. But nine times out of 10, when we were playing them in the finals, it was at times it was Javale McGee and Iguodala. It was Andrew Bogut, Shawn Livingston. Shawn Livingston, Harrison Barnes. When everything went haywire, when it was fucking Kevin Durant over there and another shooter, it was like impossible to guard because you couldn't help from the weak side. Because now Draymond's such a great IQ player. If you help. If you tag from the guy on the weak side, he throws it all the way across court. You can actually see there's a play that you can watch on YouTube probably where they were taking the ball out on sob side of the bounce. Yeah, not. Son of a bitch. Sorry, guys. Side out of bounds. And I was getting ready. I was two nineing on the strong side because they were about to get into some split action. Steph takes the ball out and throws it all the way to the weak side corner by their bench. And I try to close out to KD because I'm looking. Trying to shrink the floor. He throws it from the sideline. I bounce all the way across. I close out, slips, falls on the ground. KD dunks the ball. But back to your point that I don't understand. Well, I do understand why most teams don't run it because they don't have.
- [38:09]
JJ Redick
They don't have the personnel.
- [38:09]
LeBron James
They don't have the personnel. There are certain teams that, like right now, Mike Brown in Sacramento is kind of running some split action. He has those shooters. He has, you know, obviously Kevin Herder, you know, he has the kid Keegan Murray who can shoot the piss out the ball. And also the speed of De'Aaron Fox. You know, they playing a lot of pinch posts with Demonis, who's now triple double threat.
- [38:31]
JJ Redick
Every day you need a pastor like Samos.
- [38:33]
LeBron James
You have to have.
- [38:33]
JJ Redick
Yeah, you have to have a Pastor Draymond.
- [38:36]
LeBron James
Yeah, exactly like Demon is. Draymond. Martin Gasol, back in his day, you know, certain guys, obviously, Joker, he does. He's one of a kind. But you have to have the personnel. You have to have the personnel.
- [38:48]
JJ Redick
The thing with the post splits for me is like, you can. Let's say they involved Looney.
- [38:56]
LeBron James
What do they call you? What do your kids call you?
- [38:58]
JJ Redick
Dad.
- [38:59]
LeBron James
No. When you coach it, what do they call you? Coach. Coach. Jj. Coach call you jj. They just call you jj. Oh, shit. Okay.
- [39:04]
JJ Redick
Knock your iPhone first.
- [39:05]
LeBron James
No, we don't want to talk to you right now, sir. They.
- [39:08]
JJ Redick
They just call me jj.
- [39:08]
LeBron James
They just call you jj. Okay. You got a good.
- [39:10]
JJ Redick
By the way, I tell them all this. I tell them this all the time. You brought up the flubbing that ATO play.
- [39:16]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [39:17]
JJ Redick
I don't care if you miss a shot. I don't even care if you take a bad shot. I've never yelled at a kid or gotten on a kid for taking any shot.
- [39:25]
LeBron James
Right.
- [39:25]
JJ Redick
I never have. Now, I may, after a game, be like, hey, you know, we were up seven with 42 seconds. You didn't need to shoot a kick. Step back three. We could have just dribbled the clock out. Right. What drives me crazy, though, is when I drop an ATO and then we go out and they forget it. It was like, dude, it's been 10 seconds. My big thing with them now is, like, don't worry about what I'm drawing up. Just watch you.
- [39:50]
LeBron James
That's.
- [39:50]
JJ Redick
Pay attention to it.
- [39:52]
LeBron James
Just watch.
- [39:52]
JJ Redick
You just watch. Anyways, so let's say you involve Kevon Looney or whatever.
- [39:57]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [39:57]
JJ Redick
And so the big decides to, like, you know, be in a drop back here.
- [40:00]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [40:00]
JJ Redick
So Steph and Clay, they're up here doing their dance or whatever.
- [40:03]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [40:05]
JJ Redick
They're going to get an open three.
- [40:07]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [40:08]
JJ Redick
Right?
- [40:08]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [40:09]
JJ Redick
If you switch out with Kavon Looney's guy, I think what's always been difficult for me is someone who's guarded. That action you were talking about body position.
- [40:19]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [40:19]
JJ Redick
Bro. Sometimes it doesn't matter. They're so good. The second you get on that angle, the second you turn your head, the cutting to the basket is the hardest part to me.
- [40:29]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [40:30]
JJ Redick
Like, I can chase over a screen and get a contest on three, but, like, they're just. They. They. They keep you off balance, which is interesting that you bring up the weak side being the key to the whole thing.
- [40:40]
LeBron James
But you. That's. That's like. What you're saying is advanced basketball. Q. You know what you're saying? If I'm guarding Draymond in the post, Kavon Looney is at the quad. They're doing their thing at the free throw line. They're doing that. You're saying that if he has a wide open three, why not. Are you saying Draymond's man just go, take, and then Kevon Looney just stays in the paint? Is that what you're saying?
- [41:13]
JJ Redick
No, I'm saying as. As. As this guy.
- [41:16]
LeBron James
Right.
- [41:16]
JJ Redick
As one of them.
- [41:17]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [41:18]
JJ Redick
So we can switch this action. Let's say we're switching this action. I'm saying if Kevon Looney is so worried he's in this. His guys in this drill, and he's off the body, we're going to live with the contested three?
- [41:30]
LeBron James
Yep. Yep.
- [41:31]
JJ Redick
Right. You're going to give that up if you're worried about taking the layup?
- [41:33]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure.
- [41:34]
JJ Redick
The second you bring Kavon Looney up, they're getting a layup.
- [41:36]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure.
- [41:37]
JJ Redick
They're getting a layup.
- [41:38]
LeBron James
You're getting a layup.
- [41:38]
JJ Redick
They're too. It's too hard to guard Y. The dance is too hard. And they've done it so many times.
- [41:43]
LeBron James
You're absolutely right.
- [41:44]
JJ Redick
You go back to that 22 dude, that 22 finals run where they just like, all right, so Wiggins is getting guarded by whoever. Draymond's got the ball. And we're just going to involve two people. We're not even going to put the big in there.
- [41:57]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [41:57]
JJ Redick
How many cuts did Wiggins get? He runs into the. To the. To the split action and doesn't even stop.
- [42:03]
LeBron James
And it's a layup.
- [42:04]
JJ Redick
You know what's interesting you think about that, that run. You talking about getting in the playoffs. You can't beat high basketball IQ teams with a low basketball iq. Teams.
- [42:13]
LeBron James
No, there's no way.
- [42:14]
JJ Redick
And at the time, some of those teams I didn't think were high basketball IQ teams.
- [42:19]
LeBron James
You're absolutely right.
- [42:20]
JJ Redick
It's interesting. Aaron Gordon talked about that because they beat them in the first round, and that was a big takeaway for me. Now, they didn't have the person. They didn't have kcp. Right. They didn't have the personnel. Murray was hurt, but it. I'm not saying I don't. Would never say a guy's dumb. I'm saying basketball iq.
- [42:35]
LeBron James
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [42:36]
JJ Redick
They got outsmarted that series.
- [42:37]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [42:38]
JJ Redick
Jokic was a monster, all that stuff. But they got outsmarted.
- [42:40]
LeBron James
Outsmarted.
- [42:41]
JJ Redick
And Aaron Gordon has talked about coming off of that series being like, I gotta. I gotta become a smarter basketball player.
- [42:47]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [42:48]
JJ Redick
To win at the highest level.
- [42:50]
LeBron James
To win at the highest level. And he did it. He did it. There's a lot of things, other things I would do in basketball, too. Like it's a couple other coverages. I would do the. The. The pick, the picker, B, O, B. Not bombs over Baghdad, but baseline, out of bounds.
- [43:04]
JJ Redick
America's play.
- [43:05]
LeBron James
Yeah. America's play. You have the guard. You have the best shooter sitting in the middle of the lane. Yep. You have the biggest wing sitting at the top. Yep. 5 is on the strong side. You have the point guard taking it out. Yeah.
- [43:15]
JJ Redick
And then the weak side corner.
- [43:16]
LeBron James
In the weak side corner.
- [43:17]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [43:20]
LeBron James
When the no. 1 ever, it's not many times that the guy, the wing that's coming down the middle gets that pass. Because in theory, if you're guarding the ball, 1, 1000, 2, 1000. Take away the basket and then jump out right. To take away the shot. I've always wanted to. No coach has ever allowed me to do this or want or given me the freedom to do this. The guy that's guarding the ball, when he says, 1100-021000-31000, why doesn't he just take the guard that's coming out for the pick to picker, and the guard that's guarding the pick to picker, guy just falls right to the guy that's taking the ball out.
- [44:04]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [44:06]
LeBron James
You go one one thousand, two one thousand. J.J. redick is flying off left, right where, you know, he's dangerous. He can shoot straight up and down if he wants to, or he's going to fade if he wants to as well. Maybe kick you.
- [44:17]
JJ Redick
It's my natural shooting motion. It's my natural shooting motion.
- [44:21]
LeBron James
I'm guarding the ball. I just take JJ and the guard who was chasing you just falls right to the. To the. To the. To the. To the guy that's taking the ball out. That's one that's not. We could talk about the other day. So.
- [44:32]
JJ Redick
No, no. So what's interesting about that? I like that. I'll tell you why. Because, like, someone who ran that play, right? So whether I slipped or set the screen, I'm coming off. A lot of teams after 21000 would send the guy guarding the takeout guy. They'd send him to me.
- [44:49]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [44:49]
JJ Redick
The problem is my guy's still chasing me. So what happens? I get the ball, I don't have a shot. Cause now I got two guys at me. It's a quick pass back to the inbounder. He gets a layup.
- [45:00]
LeBron James
So don't chase you.
- [45:01]
JJ Redick
That's what I'm saying. It's actually a good coverage.
- [45:04]
LeBron James
Take you to the screen. And at the screen, the X5, that's guarding the pick, the picker big opens up and you slide right to the guy that's guarding. I didn't know if you wanted a second glass. I didn't know.
- [45:16]
JJ Redick
Okay.
- [45:16]
LeBron James
I love talking basketball, by the way.
- [45:18]
JJ Redick
The other play, and it goes back to the ghost screen that I think is really difficult to guard. And you've been the ball handler in this case is the inverted pick and roll. So Giannis fucking Jokic, now Embiid, now, all these guys, they take the weakest defender, they take a shooter, whatever it may be, and they go set an on ball screen for the big.
- [45:45]
LeBron James
For the big.
- [45:46]
JJ Redick
Last night in the Knicks game, Draymond had it at the top, and Steph was in the paint to go set the high pick to go set this inverted pick and roll. Now, Steph has a number of options here. He can Slip out. He can set the pick. They can go back to a dribble handoff if he passes Steph. Like their two man dance is really hard. They decided to top lock Stephen so he couldn't get to the screen. And Steph screened him. Steph streamed him into Draymond's guy. Draymond got a wide open dunk.
- [46:14]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [46:14]
JJ Redick
That is a insanely difficult action to guard. Last year in the Western Conference finals, I can't remember which game it was, but it was in the fourth quarter. They ran that three times with Murray as the screener, Jokic as the ball handler on the right. Right wing. Right in front of the bench.
- [46:31]
LeBron James
Right in front of the bench, yep.
- [46:33]
JJ Redick
How would you guard that?
- [46:36]
LeBron James
There's. There's a couple ways you can. How do you guard it and how do you stop it? It's two different things depending on the ball handler and his shooting ability. If he's not a great shooter or numbers wise, he hasn't shot the ball well, then the guard that's guarding the screener just. We call it a smack.
- [47:01]
JJ Redick
Yeah.
- [47:02]
LeBron James
You stay body on body with the screener and the big that's guarding the ball, x4, x5, whatever goes to removed. So he goes not only under the screener, he goes under his teammate as well. If the big is not a great shooter, if, if the big has it going and he's shooting the well, I. E. You know, it could be, you know, Joel, it could be Porzingis, it could be Joker, where he might be shooting it well, then the guard can get out and give a hard ass hedge. And the big that's guarding the ball goes one remove. So he goes underneath his player, in between his player and the offensive player. If that doesn't work, then you have to switch and then fire. And that's with Joker. That's what makes their team insanely to guard. Because when you switch and you fire, he can make every single pass. And fire means double from the top.
- [48:05]
JJ Redick
All right, so two things to this. So in the first scenario, this. And again, this is why I'm asking you, because I want to tell you now why it's hard and you know this. I'm not telling you, telling the audience the first scenario, which you described, which is a non shooter.
- [48:22]
LeBron James
Yep.
- [48:23]
JJ Redick
I. E. Giannis, I. E. Ben Simmons. Okay. So I'm setting an inverter. We called it 12. And we would get in, sometimes we get into 12 rub rifle which is. Then I would slip out, Ben would hit me, I'd swing it immediately go to Chase action with Joel in the right rifle, I either get a shot or a pocket pass Joel. Right. But in a normal 12 Ruby with Ben, if the defense was all the.
- [48:44]
LeBron James
Way back, he has a Runway.
- [48:46]
JJ Redick
Not only that, I'm just going to go get a dribble handoff and get a wide open shot.
- [48:49]
LeBron James
Yeah.
- [48:51]
JJ Redick
So if you want to play off of Joe. Well, with Maxi, and Maxi wants to Maxi, just go get the ball and shoot a ball jumper at any point in time. Right. The other reason I think this is so hard, because I, I, I took a lot of pride in my screening. Big guys are terrible at navigating screens, for sure. So in the second scenario, when you're talking about going third man removed, that sounds great. Now, theory.
- [49:12]
LeBron James
Right, right, right. The problem is, I mean, maybe I was just speaking from a.
- [49:16]
JJ Redick
No, no, no, no.
- [49:16]
LeBron James
I have Anthony Davis, so I know who's a hybrid, but yes, you're absolutely right.
- [49:21]
JJ Redick
That's, that's. The other part is, like. And by the way, they let guards. They just do.
- [49:25]
LeBron James
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
- [49:28]
JJ Redick
He's not used to, like.
- [49:29]
LeBron James
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
- [49:29]
JJ Redick
Shooting the gap.
- [49:30]
LeBron James
No, you're right.
- [49:31]
JJ Redick
You go run like a normal pick and normal high pick and roll, where I'm going to screen the five man first. You know, I go down, screen the five man. I can come back up into Spain, action. Or I can go out to the corner. Like, I would sit there. I sometimes be on the screen for four seconds.
- [49:43]
LeBron James
Yeah, for sure.
- [49:44]
JJ Redick
They just don't know what to do. And then all of a sudden, they're, you know, chucking me in the throat or pushing off, and I get an offensive.
- [49:49]
LeBron James
And that's what makes it even more dynamic, because when you have a guy like Giannis and Ben, when he was in his groove, you know, and Joel and now Jokic, they have the ability to, you know, obviously Giannis is, like the best at it, and today he has the ability to have the defense go one way, and then the guard will flip, screen it. So now the guard that's guarding, he'll be on this side getting ready to show or blitz or hedge. And now they flip the screen, and when he crosses over, there's nobody over there. It's. You don't. And then once Giannis gets to the launching pad, you know, it's over with. He's gonna dunk you and the ball in the ring. Come on, let's do it, grandma. The glass man. Jj, I don't want to finish this. Oh, yeah, yeah. I brought these from home, man. You know, it.
- [50:49]
JJ Redick
LeBron, thank you for your generosity with the wine.
- [50:51]
LeBron James
Well, I appreciate it.
- [50:52]
JJ Redick
I do appreciate it. I'll. I'll make sure, you know, home court. Home court. Last time I was ready. Last time I was ready. So I'll have some for you next time.
- [51:01]
LeBron James
I can always bring the wine. I got plenty of it. Needing somebody to drink with.
- [51:08]
JJ Redick
Hey, guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. Thank you.
- [51:26]
LeBron James
Sa.