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- [00:00]
A
Coming up on this episode of mind the game. MVPs always. You never know. There's a lot of, like, narratives, storylines, all that stuff. But we have four guys that are worthy. I'd love to hear from you, just your take on Luka.
- [00:14]
B
I just think his level of comfortability now in the organization has allowed him to play free basketball.
- [00:20]
A
What was your role in, like, allowing him to get comfortable?
- [00:23]
B
I just think it's as simple as just not being an idiot.
- [00:27]
A
I would say my favorite for MVP is Shea.
- [00:30]
B
That's one of the things I love about Shai, is just, like, for him to play on the perimeter as much as he does, playing at mid range as much as he does, and still be as super efficient as he is. Like you said, it's Jordan S. For sure.
- [00:41]
A
Let's talk Jokic. I mean, he still puts up outrageous numbers, outrageous impact on the game.
- [00:48]
B
Does he have, like a 30, 20 and 10 game?
- [00:51]
A
Or what are we talking about?
- [00:52]
B
25, 24 and 50?
- [00:54]
A
What are we talking about? Like, it's. And then let's talk about, you know, what could possibly be the MVP for the next century or two for the next. The next 100 million years indefinitely? The alien Victor. Women.
- [01:12]
B
Combat.
- [01:37]
A
Let's go. Let's go to it.
- [01:38]
B
Let's do it.
- [01:40]
A
13. One last 14 games, man.
- [01:42]
B
Pretty impressive what we're doing right now. Yeah, we're playing good ball, man. Everybody's kind of just bought into what needs to be done to win ball games on both sides. You know, obviously at the beginning of the season and a little bit more in the beginning of the season, defensively we weren't really good. We were trying to figure out how we could, you know, use our personnel to our advantage. And that's one of the most important things. How can you get the most out of your personnel offensively or defensively? You know, and, you know, I think it all started. I think one episode. We started talking about when we started playing zone, you know, and when you play zone, that's the one thing. One thing that you have to do when you play zone is talking about. You cannot not talk. You have to say, hey, runner coming. Or, you know, flash. Or, you know, stunt fall. Like, you have to communicate because the two guys that are sitting up at the top, they don't know anything that's going on behind them, you know, and sometimes in, man, I don't know for why, you know, the communication can kind of go down. But I think us playing zone kind of sparked our defensive. Our ratings. And now, man, to man, you know, zone, we sprinkling zone every, you know, we're playing some good ball and it started there. And obviously the heater that Luke is on right now, man, like I think he scored 30 the last 15 games, something like that. Averaging 40 over the last like 10 shooting, super efficient three ball going Arkansas still doing what he do and we're all just pinching in. And it's a really good month. Really good month of March for us. Really good month of March for us.
- [03:12]
A
That's got to give you confidence going going into the playoffs here. The defense though, like that's interesting. So you think the talking, the figuring it out, the getting on the same page from the zone helps the man?
- [03:24]
B
I think it did because one, I mean, human nature, when you know that you can get stops, it definitely gives it a little bit more motivating factor. And I think the fact that when we went to zone, when our man to man coverages were struggling early on in the season, we went to zone, we started it to get stops. Another thing with the zone, you have no choice but to run back because you have to get to a position you're not running back to a man. You have to run back. And if it's either you're playing the top two wings or you're playing the bottom forwards and you got the center in the middle, there is designated areas, so you have to get back. And I think that really sparked our defensive intensity on, like I said, the communication. But also, you know, we really weren't that good early on with giving up fast break points, you know, give up a lot of transition points. So the zone definitely kind of neutralized that.
- [04:20]
A
Do you guys play zone on misses at all?
- [04:22]
B
No, not really.
- [04:24]
A
You still gotta run back. Especially in today's game.
- [04:26]
B
Yeah, especially in today's game. We know we usually play dead balls and makes. Cause it's an easier way to get to it, you know, you know, when you miss first thing you want to do, you want to protect the basket, you want to get back load, you know, if you have a threat, big risk. Yeah, big risk. Trying to get back in the zone.
- [04:41]
A
Some teams stay in it.
- [04:42]
B
Yeah, some teams stay in it. You know, obviously, you know, I mean, we played Miami, Miami kind of. They stayed in it, you know, during misses at times. So some teams do do it.
- [04:50]
A
Yeah, you guys do a great job of showing zone going, man. Just throwing teams off. Is that like. That was probably. Do you think that was like the genesis of all this and then it just kind of developed and now you're
- [05:01]
B
getting better at everything. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think it's just good to have in your toolkit, in your toolkit to be able to, you know, do, you know, just different changes, change the pitches. Like we always talk about like a pitcher, you know, you don't want to just have a fastball, you know, the whole time unless you're only playing in a ninth inning. You know, I kind of understand that. But you know, throughout the course of, I mean, an 82 game season and also through the course of four quarters, depending on who you're playing, the rhythm of how teams are playing, it can just throw them off a little bit. So I think it definitely giving us an opportunity to just like, wow, we can throw a sinker. Oh, we can throw a curveball. Okay. Oh shit, we can throw a fastball. We know we got that in our pocket. So it definitely helps.
- [05:46]
A
It's funny, right? I mean, I can imagine like elite, elite defensive teams just go, man, they're just that good at it.
- [05:51]
B
Yeah, man.
- [05:52]
A
But it's funny that the rest of the league doesn't play more zone, or at least every team have a zone. Look, it feels like, you know what the NBA is like, right? Like it's hard. Like once you get started, you're trying to get your principles in, the defense is a little behind, you got to stick with it. So then you stop changing. You stop like, let's try other things. Let's get second. Let's get our off speed pitches going. Because you're like, no, we gotta catch up with the man. So it's interesting. We play so many games but have so relatively little practice time.
- [06:19]
B
Right.
- [06:19]
A
That it's not that common as I think probably warrants. Yeah, zone warrants. I think every team has a place for zone.
- [06:26]
B
Right? I would agree, I would agree. And like you said, I mean, our league is such a, such a copycat league that, you know, if you see one team trending in that direction and you see a team like say for instance, they were not as good, you know, defensively and then they started trending into the zone and started to get a little bit better, you would think that certain teams would, you know, implement it. But you also, our league is also a very high ego league too.
- [06:48]
A
Right.
- [06:48]
B
You know, and some players, some coaches, like, listen, we play, man, this is how, this is what we do, you know, we switch everything. You know, some coaches don't switch everything. Some coaches still get up in blitz, pick a role. Some coaches will get out and you know, you or some players will get on just hard, show and recover. You know, obviously, the majority of our league is switching right now, but, you know, you get guys and teams that get stuck in their ways.
- [07:12]
A
It's interesting because I think we talk about all the evolution, analytics, the style of play, pace and space zone is the one, I think that hasn't quite been exploited as much as I would have thought by now. And I think it might be next. Like, Spode had some creative zones.
- [07:29]
B
Yeah, he got some creative zones.
- [07:30]
A
But, like, who's gonna really throw something out there and develop it that people are like, oh, this is a completely different look. I think that might be.
- [07:37]
B
I think in the next couple years, it'll be. I have a team in mind. I just don't want to say it right now because it could come back and bite our asses in playoffs for sure. Wemby, you're smart. You're too fucking smart for your own good.
- [07:49]
A
Me too, man.
- [07:49]
B
Yeah. You put Wemby at the top of his own of a 1, 2, 2,
- [07:53]
A
stand at the nail.
- [07:54]
B
Yeah, he just stands at the nail of a 1, 2, 2, or a 3, 2. You put those athletic. You put De' Aaron and Castle on the baseline. Cause they got the speed and athleticism. Let me. Shut up. But we were.
- [08:09]
A
But also, like, if you look at that lineup and not that Fox is a terrible defender, but he's the smallest guy. You can put him in the corner.
- [08:14]
B
Y.
- [08:15]
A
You know, that way he can have. Keep people in a box for the speed and could put amazing functionality. With Wemby, just because of what his.
- [08:24]
B
Yeah, he's a. I mean, he's an alien, man. So, yeah, he can. They can. The spurs are going to have the ability over the next 10 years, obviously, you know, health is wealth to try. A lot of teams in the franchise have not been able to try.
- [08:39]
A
What's it called? What's the French Connection? Him and Cornette. What's the name?
- [08:44]
B
They got it.
- [08:45]
A
They got it. They got a French Vanilla or something.
- [08:47]
B
That's their name.
- [08:48]
A
I think so. But that's the thing, right? Like, you probably wouldn't want to roll that lineup out for 20 minutes a game, but you could pick spots where those two in his own.
- [08:55]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [08:56]
A
I mean. And Wemby can stretch the floor with the three. Cornet could.
- [08:59]
B
I mean, he. I mean, he. I mean, he defensive rebounds and pushes the break, so there's no reason for him. I mean, I think a few games ago or maybe a couple weeks ago, I saw him Drive and throw a lob to Cornett.
- [09:10]
A
Yeah, so.
- [09:13]
B
Yeah, so they can absolutely be on the Ford.
- [09:15]
A
Yeah, that'd be fun. Well, it's not a mind the game episode if LeBron James wasn't setting an NBA record.
- [09:22]
B
I thought. I thought you were saying not cheersing.
- [09:24]
A
Oh, cheers. Cheers. There you go. Smart. Good catch. Let's cheers first, and then let's cheers to most wins in NBA history.
- [09:34]
B
Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it.
- [09:36]
A
1,229 wins.
- [09:40]
B
Yeah, I didn't even know what. How to look at that.
- [09:42]
A
What does that mean?
- [09:43]
B
Yeah, what does that mean? Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what that means. I think I got asked a question. I think maybe two weeks ago, maybe a week ago, a reporter asked me, like, bron, did you going to Miami, did that turn you into a winner? And kind of thought about it for a little bit, and I respond, I said, actually, I've always been a winner. Going to Miami evolved with it, evolved me and showed me how to win at the highest level of this league. You know, it helped me get to that point. But I've always been a winner.
- [10:18]
A
Cause that'd be an insult to your high school coach.
- [10:20]
B
High school teams. Yeah, it would be. Every stop in my basketball journey has resulted in a championship. And that is from the little leagues to middle school to high school, and in the pros, I've always won light work and. Yeah, light work. I wouldn't say light work, but it could be light work at times. But, yeah. So to hear that, you know, the winningest player you know in NBA history, it's like, it's. It's a shout out to all my coaches, all my teammates. The whole journey of, you know, like, my little league coaches is literally teaching me how to play the game the right way, you know, And I never, ever let, you know, the narrative or whatever case or how I should play or what I should do, change how I was taught. And so I give a lot of credit to Frank Walker Sr. Coach Drew Joyce, Keith Danbrot, like those. Those three guys. To start off my adolescent childhood journey. Journey of playing the game of basketball. I give so much credit to them because they, like, they taught me the right way to play the game. And if we did this as a team, this would happen. And we saw winning at a young age. And I. Who doesn't like to win?
- [11:55]
A
Yeah. See, I think it's a really cool milestone, personally, because it's not one we talk about. Like, no one was like, lebron's coming up on the. You Know what I mean?
- [12:02]
B
Right, right, right.
- [12:03]
A
When we talk about LeBron's coming up on Kareem, right, we talk about other individual ones, we talk about championships, but we don't talk about most wins. But for me, like, it's a low key, really cool thing because that's what the game's about.
- [12:17]
B
That's what the game is about.
- [12:18]
A
It's about teamwork, it's about competition, it's about resilience, winning games. So, yeah, championships are the icing on the cake, but winning culture, winning in general. So, like, to be the leading ist winning basketball player of all time, like, that's one that we don't glorify every day, but that's one you should be proud of. And I think it, like you said, that's why it's cool. Is the journey.
- [12:42]
B
Yeah.
- [12:42]
A
All the coaches, all the teammates playing at 41.
- [12:45]
B
Yeah.
- [12:46]
A
Like, still playing high level. That. That one. It's not gonna get the headlines.
- [12:50]
B
Yeah.
- [12:50]
A
That it probably deserves, but that. That's when you should.
- [12:53]
B
I appreciate it.
- [12:53]
A
That's when you should. You should take home and.
- [12:56]
B
Yeah, they're coming so fast that it's hard for me to even, like.
- [13:00]
A
Right. You're at that point. Yeah. Every episode we got.
- [13:03]
B
Yeah. Like, I don't even, like, I promise, like, a lot of people be thinking I'd be like, lying and shit, but, like, you know, it'd be the day of the game and, you know, I get a newsletter. It'd be like, LeBron is one game away from breaking the record. Or one rebound shy, or one assist shy, or one point.
- [13:20]
A
I'm like, well, I didn't know this one until you did it.
- [13:23]
B
I didn't even.
- [13:23]
A
I didn't either.
- [13:24]
B
I didn't either. I knew the games. Played one because that was kind of a little talked about, you know, kind of breaking the Chiefs record. But it wasn't like a headline or whatever. But I didn't. I didn't know about this one until, like the last few games, I guess
- [13:36]
A
they don't really talk about it because there's so many variables. Teammates, injury. Like, we. But like, we talk about games played, we talk about championships, we're talking about scoring titles. Everybody talking about most wins, and that's
- [13:48]
B
the most important thing. So if you don't win.
- [13:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's why we're out there.
- [13:53]
B
Yeah, that's why we're out there. To win, compete and win.
- [13:56]
A
Yeah, I didn't. I'd enjoy that one.
- [13:58]
B
I appreciate it.
- [13:59]
A
I mean, I would take that one with Me enjoy in the summer a little bit.
- [14:03]
B
I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. Yeah. I appreciate it, man. I gotta try to do that better. I gotta be better at it.
- [14:09]
A
But like you said, like, every day there's something new at this stage of your career. You start to sweep stuff under the rug. I'm sure it's like, that's a cool one.
- [14:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [14:26]
A
And now over to our producer Jason for a word from another one of our partners.
- [14:30]
C
Thanks to DraftKings for sponsoring the show. You know, playoff games, they just hit different. The intensity, the stakes, the way that every single decision gets magnified. This is basketball at its most electric. And DraftKings keeps you locked in. From tip off to final buzzer, new sportsbook customers bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet hits when you sign up using promo code mind minimum -500 odds required. You know, when we break down a defensive scheme or how a star player controlled the fourth quarter, I'm thinking about the same details when I place my bets. Points, assists, rebounds. The same stuff we talk about on the show you can bet on in real time. DraftKings lets you bet live. As the playoffs unfold, a team flips a script. Jump on it. A role player catches fire out of nowhere. You're already on it. And just a little 20, 26 pro tip from me to you. A 20 point lead doesn't really mean a lot in today's NBA. With the amount of three point shooting, especially among the elite teams that are going to be playing in the playoffs, 20 point lead can go away like that. So if you feel good about a team and they seem to be, the odds look good. Just saying. So don't wait to take your shot. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now using code MINE to turn $5 into $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins DraftKings, the crown is yours.
- [15:55]
A
Before discovering my love for basketball, I had dreams of becoming a soccer player. Some people don't know this, but soccer runs deep in my family. My dad played professionally in South Africa and my first word was literally gold. I own a collection of match worn cleats from my heroes, Ronaldinho Zidane and Samuel eto. And it's one of my most prized possessions. Safe to say that I'm beyond psyched for the FIFA World Cup. This summer, fans will be traveling from all over the world to experience the excitement in person. And they need places to stay. Why not open your doors to guests on Airbnb and earn some Extra cash. With matches taking place around the U.S. your home could be the perfect place to host and create memories for. For passionate soccer supporters like me, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host. MVP is always. You never know. There's a lot of, like, narratives, storylines, all that stuff, but we have four guys that are worthy at least. At least. I mean, I'm. I'm naming for. Without talking about Jaylen Brown and K. Cunningham.
- [17:07]
B
Right?
- [17:08]
A
So, like, when you talk about Shea Yis, Luca, that's a hell of a foursome.
- [17:17]
B
That's crazy, right?
- [17:18]
A
That's a hell of a foursome. So I. I mean, I'd love to hear from you. Just your take on Luca, he's like you said, he's on a heater. What's it been like? Tell me about playing with him, what you've noticed and what impact he's had.
- [17:32]
B
I mean. I mean, what can I say? I mean, I would be here. Like I said, I could be here for hours talking about. What I'm seeing is just. I just think his level of comfortability now in the organization has allowed him to play free basketball.
- [17:49]
A
Explain that for me a little more. Like, what has he broken through on the city? Okay. Just. I'm comfortable being here now.
- [17:57]
B
Yeah. I'm comfortable with being. I'm comfortable with being a Laker. I'm comfortable in my home. I'm comfortable with the guys, you know, I'm comfortable being myself, like, opening up. And like, he just. Just seems so free, you know? And that does wonders to the game itself when you not only feel free, but feel accepted as well, you know, you gotta think. I mean, seven, eight years in an organization and you like, I plan on being here my whole career. I wanna be here my whole career. And then, boom, you know, just one night, it's like, it's over with. So it took an adjustment. And I just see just a sense of, like, man, just, like, free. Like, I'm just back to being Luca Magic, like, the dying out here, just playing the game in the flow. And it's every night. Every night you look up at the. At the scoreboard, and it's 35, 8 and 7, 40, 10 and 8, 45, 11 and 7. And it's not like he took 40 shots or whatever, or 45 shots is like, all flow. It's all flow. And this is like, to be out there witnessing it and seeing it. You know, I played with some great players, obviously, throughout my career. And, I mean, he's Right up there with him. So it's just a.
- [19:35]
A
It's crazy, but am I wrong to think like he's fit? The right word, the movement is. He's moving well. His XL D cells look sharp. He's yanking the ball, creating something.
- [19:47]
B
I just think he's in great shape. I think he's in great shape. He's in top tier shape.
- [19:51]
A
Yeah, it feels that way like just the, the. His herky jerk. He always. With his size he can get away with it. But when he's actually like, yeah, there's a little bit of XL diesel. He's sharp and he's moving. Like that's when it's like.
- [20:03]
B
And that's been. A lot of people wouldn't understand what you're saying, but his XL D cell is what has made him great. His ability to stop on a dime.
- [20:14]
A
Yeah. Yep.
- [20:16]
B
And then explode from there, you know, has made him so damn great to go along with his basketball iq, his talent, his size, his size.
- [20:26]
A
I think even when he's not in his best shape or he's even maybe injured, he can still use his body.
- [20:30]
B
He still amazing.
- [20:31]
A
He still uses skill.
- [20:33]
B
He's a big, he's a huge point guard.
- [20:35]
A
Huge, big boy. And when he add to that like a little change of direction, change of pace. Yeah, I mean he creates space out of nothing. That's what I've seen. The sharpness, the legs in his shot, the consistency.
- [20:47]
B
Shooting the ball consistently shooting the ball right now has been top tier.
- [20:52]
A
Have you had him like doing closeouts and slides or something? Because the D's, the D's made a resurgence.
- [20:59]
B
Yeah, listen, resurgence. Hey man, he's doing it all, man. He's doing it all. I mean, listen, these, all these guys can make a case. I mean, obviously Luka, I'm gonna be a little biased because that's my teammate and I see what he do every night, but shit, you look at Shay, how efficient Shay is again, how well they're playing again, how he's scoring the ball at a crazy rate.
- [21:22]
A
Let me. Before we go on to Shay, let me ask you a little bit about your role in all this. I'll tell you a story. It's not the same story, but it's similar. When Dirk and I were coming up, Michael Finley was. We were our. Dallas's big three. He was a two time all star. We weren't all stars yet. Then Dirk and I made an all star team and Mike didn't. But we don't make the all star team and Mike doesn't Unless he empowers us to go be our best. So what's the Lakers is your team. You won a championship there. You've had the career you've had. Now all of a sudden you're playing with a 26, 27 year old superstar. There has to be some facilitation of how this all goes down. How do you, what's your role in this? What was your role in like allowing him to get comfortable? And I don't want to over glorify your position. I don't want to under glorify his success. But like that is a part of this thing, is that you guys all have to find a way.
- [22:22]
B
I just think it's as simple as not being an idiot.
- [22:26]
A
Can you say that again?
- [22:28]
B
Not being an idiot. I'm not an idiot. I'm not an idiot. Like, I understand. First of all, I am well aware of my game and what I can do for a basketball team. I've never had a position, so I know I have the ability to be put in any position that can fit a team win, even if it's taking away some of the things I've always done.
- [22:59]
A
Yeah.
- [23:00]
B
You know, so understanding that and then having a little injury that I had watching the team play and watching the team have some success, I'm sitting back and I'm like, AR and Luka or look like they're just playing free. They look like when LeBron is not playing, they don't have to like, feel like they have to cater to me and make me feel a part of it or have to get me the ball and it throws them out of rhythm. So when I was making my way back and when I was coming back to the lineup, I went to both of them and I said, listen, don't worry about me on the floor. Whatever the fuck mindset y' all been in while I was not playing, just stay there, be aggressive. Y' all got the ball in your hands. I will figure it out. I will figure it out. Don't, don't make it. Don't confuse it. I will figure it out.
- [24:03]
A
And
- [24:06]
B
text JJ and I text one of our assistant coaches. I told him I want to talk to them too. And I told him I will figure it out. I'm a winner and I know what I can do for this ball club in order for us to win and for those guys to be the best that they can be. And it literally is. I'm just not, I guess I'm not an idiot.
- [24:31]
A
Not an idiot.
- [24:32]
B
I'm not an idiot.
- [24:33]
A
Lebron James.
- [24:34]
B
I'm not an idiot. I'm not an idiot. I mean, but that's.
- [24:39]
A
I mean, that's easy to say. It's not always easy to do.
- [24:43]
B
You have to put. Yeah, you have to put your ego to the side. Put your ego to the side, put your pride to the side, but you also have to have the ability. I have, the adaptability to be able to do other things forward, too, and still make an impact.
- [24:55]
A
That's true.
- [24:56]
B
So that helps.
- [24:57]
A
You still have plenty of triple doubles or games where you're, like, took 14 shots, 24, 10, nine.
- [25:04]
B
It helps to. To. I don't, like, pat myself on the back or whatever the case may be, but it helps for me to be a Swiss army knife when it comes to just being a basketball player. Like, I never, like. Like, gave myself a moment where I was like, you're going to be a scorer.
- [25:24]
A
Yeah.
- [25:25]
B
You're going to be.
- [25:26]
A
Play the right way.
- [25:27]
B
You're going to be just that. It's just, like, put me on the floor and I can make things happen. Like, I'm just a ball player. Like, whatever. You need me to handle the ball, you know? All right, all right. Lakers, y'. All. Y', all, we need a point guard. All right, I'll do it this year. Yeah. Lead the league and assist. All right. Y' all want me to play center? All right, cool. I'll play center. Y' all need me to play three? What do you guys need? You know? All right, I go to Miami. Okay. The ball is less in my hand. I need to be. I need to slash on the 45 a little bit more. Play off the ball. Dwight Hands. I think that's one of the things that a lot of people have, like, misjudged about me as a ball player, is that I can adapt to any role or situation or position or position. I just happen to be really fucking good at this thing.
- [26:20]
A
Agreed. Yeah.
- [26:21]
B
Yeah. Like, really, really good.
- [26:23]
A
Verified.
- [26:23]
B
Like, really good at it. Yeah, like, really good at it.
- [26:26]
A
Yeah, that.
- [26:26]
B
That's. So. It gets overlooked sometimes.
- [26:28]
A
No, but that's. You know, I actually. I feel like it was this time last 13 months ago, we talked on this podcast about you adapting when Luca came and you did a lot of these things early, but then you got. You got banged up, you started the season late. Guys are in a line out. You're trying to find your rhythm. Now it's back to seeing you do all the things off the ball that you naturally did when Luca first got here. The. The spacing, you know, exactly how to space it correctly. Yeah, the cutting. You're a great cutter. The, the. The screening, the short rolling, the playmaking, the offensive rebounding, the fast break stuff. What I love is the closeout game, like, oh, you're going to help on the two man. Yeah, you got to close out on me.
- [27:15]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:16]
A
That to me is like a layer to your offense that I think is exciting when the more closeouts they can create for you.
- [27:23]
B
It's fun.
- [27:24]
A
It's fun to play like different ways. Yeah.
- [27:27]
B
And also in my career, there's not been many times where I've had the ability to play the advantage game. Yeah, I've usually created the advantage. I've usually create the 4 on 3 or the 3 on 2. Now with ultra Creators, one of the most ultimate creators in Luca now I can play the 4 on 3 game where I'm at like one of my. I'm at my best. I can play off of AR where I'm, you know, getting more athletic wings off of AR by using my screen and roll behind tactics and things of that nature. So. Yeah, it's a cool, It's a cool role. It's a cool role. I do it. I do it for now.
- [28:07]
A
Do it well for now. Shit.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah, shit.
- [28:11]
A
Year, fucking 9,000, whatever.
- [28:14]
B
Year 29 now out.
- [28:16]
A
Yeah, I mean that's. Yeah, it's good work if you can get it. But I think that's a cool, cool part about your story, is that you're not the heliocentric guy anymore.
- [28:27]
B
Yeah.
- [28:27]
A
Not that you couldn't be, but you slide right over and when, when you decide to. You. You do all the other things.
- [28:34]
B
Gotta figure out how to make the pieces still fit and to make the puzzle, man.
- [28:37]
A
I mean, how many nights you sniff a triple double and the ball's not in your hands at all like it was is. It's a. I. I like that. I enjoy watching that.
- [28:46]
B
Weird. It's kind of weird.
- [28:47]
A
I enjoy watching that because that's not. That's the testament. Right. That's. I'll play a different way and still like triple doubles or. Or thereabouts all the time. It's cool. So kudos. Kudos to you and kudos to Luca because I mean the heater he's on is crazy. He. And when he's moving well, when he's in great shape, like he is an all time special, special player. So it's great to. It's great to see that. Playoff season is here and in playoff basketball perspective is key. As a former player and coach, I'd be right there watching every drive, every shot and every block. And I can say from experience, there's no better feeling than living in the moment. As it happens, that's where the American Express Platinum card excels. Granting you exclusive access to unique experiences worldwide. For playoff games. When every second is electric, your perspective is what makes it memorable. That same principle is true for all kinds of entertainment, even beyond the arena. The fewer barriers you have in your life, the more you're right there in the moment to enjoy it. I'd call that a win. With an array of premium travel, dining and entertainment benefits, all backed by American Express's award winning service. There's nothing like platinum terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com withplatinum. I would say my favorite for MVP is Shay and just the totality of the season, the efficiency. He's a good defender. Yeah, I think he's a great leader. He's. His efficiency is Jordan esque.
- [30:46]
B
Yeah.
- [30:47]
A
As a two guard point like one
- [30:49]
B
two seven or contested.
- [30:51]
A
Contested mid range. Like it's what the.
- [30:56]
B
That is insane.
- [30:56]
A
The accuracy and efficiency is crazy. The body control. Yeah. Like his stop, start, change direction. His. This Something probably sounds weird, but I noticed like his spine mobility is crazy. One to slither into gaps, two to finish in situations.
- [31:15]
B
He's so damn good.
- [31:17]
A
So, so good. Which is interesting, right? Because like they, they do some things, they, they got a great coach, but a lot of what they do is spread, spread the fuck out and I'm going to work. That's a lot of pressure on one guy to be that efficient under those circumstances. And he constantly does it. And by the way, that's great coaching too. To be like, why would I get in the way of this? Why do I have to, you know, pull out the greatest hits? When the greatest hits is let's start by spreading the sport. You show us, spreading the floor. You show us how you're going to stop that. Yeah, they'll make adjustments.
- [31:56]
B
It's like having Jackson 5 and not having Michael as your lead singer. Why would you fuck that up? Like that doesn't make sense. Why not? Put him in the front. Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
- [32:04]
A
That's bad A and R. Yeah, that's
- [32:06]
B
bad A and R. Like every. I see. Like, you know, I don't. It's not like I'm watching NBA games every night or catch a NBA game every night. But I mean I'll cover the game. I mean obviously a lot but like every time you look at the efficiency, you look at the Box scores. And you see Shay 38, it's like 13 for 17 from the floor. You know, the night I think he had 40 something, I think it was like 15 for 19.
- [32:33]
A
They lost in Boston and I think he was like 12 or 14 and 40.
- [32:37]
B
Yeah, like, it's just like. Yeah, that's, that's one of my favorite things about players like, you know, I mean, that's. But that's because how I am. Like, I love efficient players like, you know, can go out, can do the things on the floor, be efficient. Not taking too many bad shots. I mean, if you get on a heater, you want to take a heat check or two. I get it.
- [32:59]
A
Or have tough nights where you gotta keep shooting.
- [33:01]
B
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. We all have our nights where we don't shoot, you know, to our capabilities. I mean, that just comes with the game. But I think that's one of the things I love about Shea is just like for him to play on the perimeter as much as he does, play in the mid range as much as he does and still be as super efficient as he is. Like you said, it's Jordan S for sure. Jordan S in a slightly different way. In a slightly different way.
- [33:24]
A
Less liftoff, but more like bumps and herky jerky. Little herky jerky right and left hand. He's a great left hand finisher. Plays out of his left, uses the slow between the legs. See what you got. If you force it back.
- [33:42]
B
By the way, the back between the legs too. Stop on a dime.
- [33:46]
A
Soon as he feels your weight, he's gone. He's usually going to go left if you take that away. He's got the spin, he's got the step back, he's got the foul through.
- [33:53]
B
Got big shoulder.
- [33:54]
A
If you try to. Big shoulder is amazing at it. Amazing at separation, the length after the separation. But he's right handed. So if you try to say, I'm taking the left away tonight, he doesn't go right as much to me, but he is amazing.
- [34:10]
B
Go big shoulder, go right and then step back, going right. Either way we see some game winners. Him going right, step back like he. Either way, he has a whole. He has a total package.
- [34:20]
A
Yeah. So I think efficiency, totality, the season, that's who I. I mean all four of these guys are like a dream. But that's, that's where I start with. Yeah, yeah, let, let's talk. I'm going to save the. The up and comer to last, but let's talk Jokic. I mean, he still puts up outrageous numbers. Outrageous impact of the season.
- [34:40]
B
Like a 30, 20, and 10 game or. What are we talking, 25, 24, and 50.
- [34:46]
A
What are we talking about? Like, it's. It's so insane. The numbers he puts up, the skill level, the iq, the size. Oh, I mean, savant. But they've struggled a little bit.
- [34:57]
B
Yeah.
- [34:58]
A
And it's one of those things where I think people are really worried about them. I'm not as worried because I feel like Aaron Gordon back.
- [35:04]
B
Yeah.
- [35:04]
A
You know, the rest of their group coming together.
- [35:06]
B
There's been the injuries with them, too.
- [35:07]
A
Injuries.
- [35:08]
B
Injuries with. Even. Even Jokic got injured, obviously, at one point. We talked about that when he was out, so.
- [35:13]
A
And their defense, they're a team. Like, I hate teams that say, oh, turn it back on. We're not turning back on. That's a team. I could see Aaron Gordon, Nikola Jokic, like, they're gonna. They're scoring outrageous numbers right now, but I think they are a team that can up their defense into a top 13, 12, 13.
- [35:31]
B
I don't know if I remember, but last year, did they. Were they. Were they. I won't say struggle. Were they struggling kind of going into the postseason last year before they turned it on?
- [35:38]
A
Didn't Aaron get hurt last year, too? Came back, went to the playoffs, played a little bit, obviously was really banged up in game seven.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah.
- [35:46]
A
But before that.
- [35:48]
B
Yeah, I think they kind of hit a heater.
- [35:50]
A
I mean, actually, you know what we're forgetting. Yeah. They must have struggled because the coach got fired.
- [35:55]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [35:57]
A
Fired Michael Malone, who has won a championship with them and deserves his respect. So they made a change late in the year. So it wasn't peachy.
- [36:05]
B
Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't. I mean, Aaron Gordon had those shots. I mean, he had a game winner here in okc, was at game one. Right. He had to tip dunk against the Clippers.
- [36:13]
A
Clippers. To win a game.
- [36:14]
B
To win the game.
- [36:15]
A
And that one went seven, too. So.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah, that one went seven as well. You can't. You're not counting them out.
- [36:19]
A
Can't count them out. And, yeah, I think it's interesting because very similar to last year in a way, but they find a way in the playoffs to ramp it back up. So I hate. As a. As a law, I don't allow or like that. If there's a team that can do it, that's a team that. I'm not as concerned as their performances have been. I agree, personally. So Nicole Jokic, I mean, especially before he got Hit hurt. His numbers there's still outrageous, but the year he was having, he had as good a case as anybody. And then let's talk about, you know, what could possibly be the MVP for the next century or two,
- [36:58]
B
the next
- [37:00]
A
100 million years indefinitely. The alien Victor Wembanyama, late push here for mvp, which I think is warranted. I'd love. I, I, I, I still think Shay's my vote. If I, if I had one. Give me your take on Wemby as an MVP candidate.
- [37:20]
B
Well, MVP candidate for sure.
- [37:22]
A
For sure.
- [37:23]
B
There's no question about it. And obviously, what they're doing this year as a team, this is having a special year. You know, number two in the west, over 50 games, he's averaging, what, 25, 11 rebounds with three blocks, three assists.
- [37:40]
A
Defensive player of the year.
- [37:41]
B
Defensive player of the year. You people, you literally easy. You literally don't even want to go to the hole when he's on the floor. Like, I think he's making a case for sure. You know, he's making a case for sure. But I would agree, I think I don't want to be the guy to say his time will come, because that's kind of corny to me, too. If you're the mvp, you're the fucking mvp. You shouldn't have to pay your dues and all that type of stuff. I just think Shay and Jokic and Luka are having a little bit. Yeah, Yeah. I think people came into the season knowing that the spurs were going to play great basketball as long as Wemby was healthy. You know, I just, I saw it last year, you know, kind of towards the end of the season, I said, if Stefan Cassell, you know, comes into the year, like, he finished the year
- [38:28]
A
last year, he's been amazing.
- [38:29]
B
He's been amazing. De' Aaron Fox was kind of hurt at the end of last year, but once they made that trade, I was like, they're going to be a really freaking good team.
- [38:36]
A
Been a great veteran.
- [38:37]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, if he was to get it, I wouldn't be like, oh, my God, what are we doing? Like, you know, but if he didn't, you know, I would understand that as well. So, I mean, there's a case for all four guys. Like I said, I'm super biased to Luka. That's, I mean, obviously he's my teammate, but just seeing what he's doing, I mean, and what we're doing as a ball club, I mean, I've missed significant time. Arkansas has missed significant time. And he's still been doing what he's doing. But also, you know, you look at Shay and his number two has missed significant time as well. You know, J Dub has missed a bunch of time and they're still number one in the west and number one in the NBA, I think in wins. And Joker's been doing what he's doing. So it's a four man race, man. It's gonna be. It's an unbelievable race. I think it's. I look at was that. I don't know if it was like in the 60s when it was like Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West.
- [39:28]
A
Damn.
- [39:29]
B
And one more other was like a 4. No, I think it was. I think it was Bill Russell. I think it was that. I think we could look that up. I think it was a four man race where all those guys were like, it was the craziest like four man race we probably have ever seen. Like, all those guys are playing unbelievable basketball. Yeah. Like wilt averaging like 45, 47 and 13. You had, you know, Bill Russell almost averaging triple double. You had Jerry west averaging like 42. You had Elgin Baylor. I mean, I think it was those four guys. And if it's not or if it wasn't Elgin Bailey.
- [40:02]
A
You get what he meant? You get what he means?
- [40:04]
B
You get what the. I mean, so it's Oscar then. He was probably averaging a triple double. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, this is kind of resemblance of that moment where you got four guys and if one of those guys were to get it and the other guy didn't get it, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be an uproar.
- [40:18]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a phenomenal year. That's been a fun year for the league. I mean, we talked, you know, what was crazy, we talk about all the negatives of tanking this, the that, but the reality is the game's been amazing. The playoffs are going to be unbelievable.
- [40:30]
B
Playoffs are going to be unbelievable.
- [40:32]
A
Let me ask you this about Wemby. So if I had to make a case against Wemby, which I hate to do because I love him and I think you're right. It's corny to be like, he, he has his time. That's not fair. I will say maybe we're not ready, like as a basketball society to give it to him at this stage, which may be proven wrong as we evolve, like on this side of it, the judgment, all this stuff. But I would say this if I had to say one thing. And now he can close a game every Single night defensively. But I would say he is not where he will be. As you were in your prime, if you weren't on this team, maybe you'd still be doing as Luka is, as sj, as Jokic is. Last five minutes. Here's the ball. Take us away. That's coming. Certain nights he takes them home, and every night he takes them home defensively. But I do think there's a little bit of his development, and that doesn't mean his impact in totality might be better than what another candidate is doing. But there is a piece of me that's like there is something still so valuable, the player that has the ball in their hands, that has got to take a team home every night to win a game. And that, to me, is where he's going.
- [41:41]
B
But that's the mvp, which you're. I think that that is a huge part of the mvp, you know, because if we kind of base it just off of. Not just off of. But if you say, well, he's the defensive player of the year and when he's on the four defensively and he's. Then we should have made a case for Dwight Howard as well. Then when he was in his prime, when Dwight Howard was averaging 25, 14 rebounds, three or four blocks, and when he's on the floor, what their rating is when he was off the floor, you know, we could have made a case for that. So obviously Dwight's not shooting the three. You know, like the new age, like, you know, like Wimby. Whatever the case.
- [42:22]
A
But not as versatile, right?
- [42:23]
B
Not as versatile, but as far as overall. Overall, Overall impact offensively, offensive and defensively. When Dwight was in Orlando, you could
- [42:31]
A
have made a case, and Dwight's. I think one of Wemby's arguments offensively is not all about points, which is true, but Dwight was rolling during the defense.
- [42:41]
B
Turk looking over the defense, I mean, that's a great assessment. So, I mean, I'm not sure it's
- [42:47]
A
completely fair to Wemby, but I do say if I had to nitpick, because I think the guy's on board. Unbelievable.
- [42:53]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [42:54]
A
His impact, if he won this year, I would have no problem with it, but I think that would be the one thing where his development is coming and he does it certain nights, he brings them home.
- [43:03]
B
Yeah, I'm glad I won't be in the league when it arrives. I'm glad I'll be. I could watch and do this and figure out what time my tee time is tomorrow.
- [43:13]
A
Right. That's no lies. No lies.
- [43:26]
C
So I was watching last night. Have you ever seen somebody, like, go for the lob and you're like.
- [43:32]
A
Like, throw you a lob where you're like, oh, God, I gotta jump for this now.
- [43:35]
B
Absolutely.
- [43:36]
C
I was, like, watching.
- [43:37]
A
I was like, man, I can say unequivocally, I've never had that feel. Not once.
- [43:42]
B
You know what's funny? Because AR came to me during the timeout. He says, hey, man, you notice this fucking notion that every time I throw you an alley Oop, in my mind, I think you're 25 and everybody reminds me that you're 41.
- [43:57]
A
What the fuck are you doing? What the fuck are you doing?
- [43:58]
B
You're gonna kill him. You're gonna fucking kill him. He says, man, I just throw it up there and just figure it out after that. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah, that was. He.
- [44:07]
A
That was a sick play.
- [44:08]
B
Yeah, he threw that thing up there. They just. That was good.
- [44:14]
A
Yeah. Great app. Thanks for watching Mind the Game. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Remember to, like, subscribe or follow wherever you're watching,
- [44:38]
B
Sam.