The Luka Doncic Interview (Part 1)

Summary

Mind the Game – The Luka Doncic Interview (Part 1)
Presented by Uninterrupted and Wondery
Release Date: June 1, 2025

---

Introduction

In the latest episode of Mind the Game, hosted by Jason McIntyre and featuring NBA legends LeBron James and Luka Doncic, the conversation delves deep into Luka's transition to the Los Angeles Lakers, his collaboration with LeBron, and his passionate efforts towards youth basketball development. The episode not only highlights the intricacies of professional basketball but also underscores the critical issues surrounding youth sports today.

---

Playing with an Icon: Luka’s Experience with LeBron James

One of the primary topics revolves around Luka's move to Los Angeles and his opportunity to play alongside his longtime idol, LeBron James. Luka shares his initial impressions and the unique learning experiences gained from this partnership.

Luka Doncic ([01:50]):
"I mean, it's great. You see, I've never played a guy like this and, you know, just being traded to here, to LA, it was different. But just to play with guys like him, it's unbelievable. Like, I can learn so many stuff."

Luka emphasizes the diligence LeBron brings to the game, noting how LeBron's off-court preparations set a high standard.

Luka Doncic ([02:25]):
"Of all, he shows up like 10 hours before the game. So that was really the main. Like, I was what? I come to the arena for 22 years, he was already done working out. I was like, what?"

The synergy between the two stars is evident as they discuss their similar playing styles and mutual understanding on the court.

Luka Doncic ([03:10]):
"It's been great, but just, you know, I think it's a work in progress. You know, when we two are out there. Nar, you know, he's been playing unbelievable. And I think it's just still work in progress."

LeBron James ([04:08]):
"It's always his pace. It's always been his pace. He moves at his own pace... we have to make sure that we continue to stay ready. Cause you just never know when the ball may find you."

---

Falling in Love with Basketball: Personal Journeys

The conversation shifts to personal anecdotes about how both Luka and LeBron discovered their passion for basketball, contrasting their experiences growing up in different environments.

Luka Doncic ([12:22]):
"I wasn't good in any other sports except soccer... I played tennis, soccer, and basketball. I played in volleyball, I played. So it was... I was outside a lot."

Luka credits his father, Sasha, a EuroLeague player, for fostering his love for basketball.

LeBron James ([13:32]):
"I was inspired by MJ and Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill... all the sports I played growing up, I just always wanted to play whatever it was... And then, once I got into the youth leagues, I actually loved the competitive nature of basketball."

These stories highlight the foundational role that informal, playground play had in developing their skills and love for the game.

---

Youth Basketball Development: Luka’s Vision

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Luka's commitment to enhancing youth basketball through his foundation. He discusses the commissioned study, "Inside Youth Basketball," which examines the differences in youth training between Europe and the United States.

Jason McIntyre ([10:00]):
"Your foundation has made this incredible study called Inside Youth Basketball, where for a month they studied how people are trained and grown up playing the game in Europe versus how they're trained and playing the game in the US."

Luka Doncic ([11:33]):
"Just seeing kids not pulling out of sports these days... we're trying to combine the weaknesses and the strengths together. So, the main thing was just kids to have fun playing basketball, especially when you're young."

Luka emphasizes the importance of fun and informal play in sustaining children's interest in sports, aiming to reduce burnout and pressure.

---

The Dark Side of Commercialized Youth Sports

Both Luka and LeBron express concerns over the commercialization of youth sports in the US, highlighting how excessive pressure and structured programs lead to burnout and decrease in participation.

LeBron James ([16:44]):
"That's the worst thing you can do, right?"

Jason McIntyre ([16:42]):
"What happens is now the parents are involved, there's a system. They're not playing informally. It leads to personal trainers, strength and conditioning coaches..."

LeBron James ([24:31]):
"A lot of the skills coaches and trainers over that are involved in kids' lives, they actually want to be more famous than the actual kid."

They discuss how the shift from free play to structured, performance-driven environments strips away the joy and creativity that sports originally provided.

---

Parental Perspectives and Balancing Act

LeBron shares his approach as a parent, ensuring his children maintain a healthy balance between sports and personal life to prevent burnout.

LeBron James ([26:37]):
"We've told our kids, this is not an all-year-round thing for you guys. One, we don't want you all to burn the hell out. And two, there needs to be some family time involved as well."

He underscores the importance of breaks and family activities in keeping the love for the game alive without overwhelming young athletes.

---

Conclusion: Upholding the Joy in Youth Sports

Jason wraps up the episode by reflecting on the critical insights shared by Luka and LeBron. He emphasizes the necessity of preserving joy, creativity, and informal play in youth sports to foster not only better athletes but well-rounded individuals.

Jason McIntyre ([31:14]):
"Sport is such an incredible tool that offers us a place to learn, to grow, to find out who we are, to make friends, teammates, to collaborate."

He reiterates his commitment to supporting initiatives like Luka’s study to ensure that future generations can enjoy sports without the burdens of excessive commercialization and pressure.

---

Key Takeaways

• Mentorship and Learning: Playing alongside LeBron James offers Luka invaluable lessons both on and off the court.
• Youth Development: Luka's Inside Youth Basketball study aims to balance the strengths of European and American training systems to enhance youth involvement and enjoyment.
• Commercialization Concerns: Over-structured youth sports programs in the US lead to burnout and reduced participation, undermining the fundamental joy of playing.
• Parental Role: Ensuring a balanced approach to sports can help maintain children's passion and prevent early dropout.
• Preserving Joy: Emphasizing informal play and creativity is essential for the healthy development of young athletes.

---

Notable Quotes

• LeBron James ([04:08]):
  "He moves at his own pace... we have to make sure that we continue to stay ready."

• Luka Doncic ([11:33]):
  "Just seeing kids not pulling out of sports these days... we're trying to combine the weaknesses and the strengths together."

• LeBron James ([24:31]):
  "Their motive is not pure... they want to be recognized, it's not for you to be famous."

• Jason McIntyre ([31:14]):
  "Sports is such an incredible tool that offers us a place to learn, to grow, to find out who we are."

---

This episode of Mind the Game offers a profound exploration of the current state of youth basketball, the challenges posed by commercialization, and the efforts by influential figures like Luka Doncic and LeBron James to reclaim the joy and creativity inherent in sports. Whether you're a fan of basketball or passionate about youth development, this insightful conversation provides valuable perspectives on fostering a healthier, more enjoyable athletic environment for the next generation.

Transcript

[LeBron James]

Mind the game, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

We're back. Star studded cast today.

[LeBron James]

Cheers, brother.

[Jason McIntyre]

We're happy to welcome the great Luka Doncic.

[Luka Doncic]

Thank you.

[Jason McIntyre]

What a pleasure.

[LeBron James]

Big time. Pleasure. Had Adan on to speak about multiple topics.

[Jason McIntyre]

Multiple topics. The most important, I think, is everyone wants to know, like, what's your take on the season finale of White Lotus?

[Luka Doncic]

What was that? What'd you say?

[Jason McIntyre]

I didn't even sing. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Never mind, Never mind. Welcome to Mind the Game, presented by uninterrupted and Wondry. In this episode, we're thrilled to be joined by Luka Doncic. We cover a bunch of topics, starting with his move to Los Angeles, playing with one of his idols, LeBron James, and also his work with the Luka Doncic foundation and the commissioned study he's provided of developing youth basketball players in Europe versus the United States. Stick around to the end of the episode where I'll talk a little bit more about why I'm on Luka's athletes council, why it's important to me, and how we can all help improve the landscape of youth basketball. So thanks for watching, Please enjoy and we look forward to this episode. Honestly, this is amazing to have.

[Luka Doncic]

You appreciate it?

[Jason McIntyre]

No, it's usually just the two of us, but we reserved a third spot for. For the main man, and now, really, I think it'd be unfair for the audience if we didn't ask you off the bat what it's like playing together. How you feel playing with LeBron. I know you looked up to him as a kid and now you guys are teammates.

[Luka Doncic]

I mean, it's great. You see, I've never played a guy like this and, you know, just being traded to here, to la, it was different. But just to play with guys like him, like, it's unbelievable. Like, I can learn so many stuff. You know, first of all, off the court, you know, all the things he does just to be ready for the game. And obviously on the court, everybody knows what kind of player he is.

[Jason McIntyre]

What? Like, give me an example of a couple things you've seen, like, being around him every day where you're like, he does that. Like, what's he doing over there? Like, is there anything that stands out initially where you're like, wow, well, first.

[Luka Doncic]

Of all, he shows up like 10 hours before the game. So that was really the main. Like, I was what? I came to the arena for 22 years, he was already done working out. I was like, what?

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah. And then what about playing together? Like, you Guys are so similar, you know, obviously different stages of your career, but you're so similar. The way you see the game, the way you process the game, the way you can, you know, abuse bigger defenders, you can bully smaller defenders. You're both computers. The way you read the game. Like, has it been fun to see someone that you understand the way he thinks and to be able to play off each other?

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. You didn't mention the bounce.

[Jason McIntyre]

The bounce. Oh, the jump minus the bounce, Minus the bounce. A lot of similarities.

[Luka Doncic]

No, it's been great, but just, you know, I think. I still think it's a work in progress. You know, when we two are out there. Nar, you know, he's been playing unbelievable. And I think it's just still work in progress. You know, I think we're getting better and better every day. I mean, I think you saw today against okc, you know, it's hard to win here, number one team in the west for a reason. And we just, you know, we shared the ball. Everybody was getting open shots. So still it's work in progress, but we're getting better and better every day.

[Jason McIntyre]

It was interesting. I noticed, you know, OKC so handsy, athletic. You know, they speed people up. They can't speed them up. Like, what's your take? Were you saying you have no speed, don't show it, but you handle all that pressure, and then you can dissect the team once that pressure breaks. Now you're playing your game. Do you notice sometimes when he's able to just calm things down and take. Take charge?

[LeBron James]

No. Like you said, I mean, it's always his pace. It's always been his pace. You know, it's never been a game be like, okay, well, you can speed me up. He can speed me up. Okay. This bigger guy could be more physical. Okay. The smaller guy could get up underneath me. It's like he moves at his own pace. And he's never, ever been on the floor where he's allowed someone to dictate where they're going to put him on the floor. It's always been the opposite, you know, and for us, when we all working off of that, we just got to stay ready. You know, you've seen a. Obviously we've seen throughout his career, like, there's plays and passes that certain guys that in the league history have ever been able to make, you know, and, you know, for us, we all just have to make sure that we continue to stay ready. Especially when you're going against handsy teams, athletic teams, teams that try to speed you up, we always have to keep our head on the swivel. Cause you just. You just never know. You just never know when the ball may find you. And that's a good thing. That's keeping the defense off balance. And that's a great thing to have, that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, you know, it's a great point. One of the. Like, you guys both incredible passers. One of the things about your passing game that I always really admire is the late pass. Like, did you do that as a kid? Or is that something you developed as you got older? But it's like, it's almost over, and then you go, like, almost 180 behind you to someone for three. Like, where did that come from? Like, is that something that you always did, or it developed in time?

[Luka Doncic]

I think it developed during time. I don't think I did that as a kid. I don't remember that. But just, you know what I always said to my teammates? You know, once I go up, stay in your spot, because I know where you were before. And then if I don't have any option, I'll pass it to you.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Luka Doncic]

But I think through time, you know, I don't think I did it as.

[Jason McIntyre]

A kid, but it's. I mean, it's brilliant. You've made every pass there's been, and you obviously pass over people, but it's. It's great because the natural kind of thinking of a defender is when you leave your feet is they kind of turn and they think, my guy's out of the play. I got to get ready to either rotate or rebound. They've come in a little bit. Ball's going over there. They can't get back out. So you, you know, but you can't do that without the vision. But also with your size, I could. I could make late passes, but my. My, you know, my matrix and late passes was limited. You know what I mean? So you're able to make that high one over the top of the defense, catch them sleeping when they already think the play's over for them.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

And so that's something that I really admire about your game. There's not a lot of people can do that.

[Luka Doncic]

I think that was during time, you know, just probably when I got to the NBA.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, not at Madrid.

[Luka Doncic]

I mean, probably some, but not like this. Not like this.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, what I wanted to ask you, switching gears a little bit, is you come from a small country, beautiful country. I went there this summer. We were at the Goran Dragic retirement game. How'd I look? Out there on the court.

[Luka Doncic]

The soccer team was better.

[Jason McIntyre]

Soccer game was better because it was small court. Yeah, that's true. But it's a beautiful country. Two million people.

[Luka Doncic]

Two million people.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, which makes it incredible. They won the European Championship, him and Gogi, and obviously everybody but you two leading the charge. You now live in Los Angeles. How was that for you? Like, the day you find out, like, you're, you know, in a city that's bigger than your country, you know, Southern California is like 30 million people.

[LeBron James]

It's overpopulated.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right. Like, how. How was that for you, culturally, to all of a sudden be like, oh, man, I live in one of the biggest cities in the world.

[Luka Doncic]

Well, first of all, like, this is the first city I play in that has an ocean. And I really like the ocean. So that was.

[Jason McIntyre]

That was nice.

[Luka Doncic]

First thing, I mean, after a couple days, that was the first thing on my mind. You know, it's a lot. I like it. I like it very much. The only. The only thing is the traffic. But.

[Jason McIntyre]

But you. You're also. You're. You're quiet, you're unassuming. Like, you're like. It's Hollywood out there. Is that taking adjustment for you, or are you like. No, that part doesn't bother me.

[Luka Doncic]

No, not really. But, like, there's. Every time there's famous people, you know, watching our game, sitting courtside, then that's. I mean, that's amazing to see, but they're not really. Not that much.

[LeBron James]

The first I ask you the question is, like, how you. Are you adjusting? I'm adjusting. I like the beach. That's the first thing you say. I like the beach.

[Jason McIntyre]

That made it feel okay.

[Luka Doncic]

I gotta go fishing.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. So. But it's a different pace of life.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

A little bit traffic, like.

[Luka Doncic]

And I like to drive, you know, so.

[Jason McIntyre]

You like to drive. Have you gone and have you. Have you driven outside of LA at all yet?

[Luka Doncic]

What do you mean?

[Jason McIntyre]

Like, so, for example, like, I think it's what's cool about. We think about LA as a big city, but within an hour and a half, two hours, Santa Barbara, you go. Santa Barbara, San Diego, you know.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

You could go to the mountains.

[LeBron James]

Orange County.

[Jason McIntyre]

Orange county, you go all over the place. Malibu. There's a million places to go within two hours. Right. Ojai or all over the place. So, you know, like, you like to drive.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, but I didn't try first time. First place I would try was Santa Barbara, because I was there in. When I was 17 or something like that. I went to P3. Yeah, P3. So I really like that. It's peaceful.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Beach, of course.

[Jason McIntyre]

Quiet.

[LeBron James]

Some good wine out there, too.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like. Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Great restaurants.

[Jason McIntyre]

Wine Valley. It's like a little bit more like Slovenia.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. But I wasn't allowed to drink at.

[LeBron James]

17, so I don't know the Slovenia year. Okay, 18.

[Jason McIntyre]

Make up for it. Make up for it. This episode is sponsored in part by American Express. American Express knows that for an obsessive basketball fan like me, the playoffs mean a lot of travel time. Between broadcasting games and catching up with old teammates, I'm on the road almost every week from Boston to LA and everywhere in between. After all these years, I've learned that the journey is as important as the destination. That's why I've always tried to find a spot to stretch, grab a coffee, and get my mind right before heading over to the arena. Fortunately, there's a card that makes every part of that journey better. With Amex Platinum, you earn five times membership rewards points on prepaid hotels and flights booked through amextravel.com on a to $500,000 on flight purchases per year. Plus you get access to the Centurion Lounge, which makes travel that much more enjoyable. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. For more information, visit american express.com travel well, one of the things that I really want to talk about tonight is, is youth basketball development. We've all gone through it. We've all had to build ourselves up as players. You now have two sons, one who's basically gone through it and the other one who's right in the middle of it. You grew up in Europe, I grew up in Canada. It always fascinates me how people develop and what systems. And so your foundation, the Luka Doncic foundation, has obviously made this incredible study. You commissioned a study called Inside youth basketball, like 300 something pages, where for a month they studied how people are trained and grow up playing the game in Europe versus how they're trained and playing the game in. In the US and trying to find out as many things as possible to help kids get better.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

What inspired this for you?

[Luka Doncic]

I think just seeing, like, kids not pulling out of sports these days. You know, more and more kids are putting out the sports. Just probably they don't have as much fun as I did when I grew up. So that's why we have a study in America and study in Europe. So we're trying to combine the. The weaknesses and the strength together. So, you know, the main thing was just kids to have fun Playing basketball, especially when you're young, you know, you want to have fun. Nothing about anything. Just go out there and have fun.

[Jason McIntyre]

So there's been a study that claims that 70% of kids quit youth sports by the time they're 13, because basically the joy is pushed out of it. Too much pressure, not enough fun. I'd love to know about your childhood. Like, how did you, both of you, how did you fall in love with basketball?

[Luka Doncic]

Well, for me, I wasn't good in any other sports except soccer.

[Jason McIntyre]

I was. You're okay.

[Luka Doncic]

Not like you.

[Jason McIntyre]

I've seen your first touch.

[Luka Doncic]

Not like you, but, you know.

[Jason McIntyre]

But I've also seen you hit a tennis ball.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, I was playing a lot of sports.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Luka Doncic]

Tennis, soccer, and basketball were the main ones. I played in volleyball, I played. So it was. For me, it was fun just to do sports. And then I went outside, you know, after school, I went outside every time. Just play basketball.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Playing hoops from a young age or playing anything.

[Luka Doncic]

Anything, anything. Mostly basketball.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Because your dad, Sasha, was Euro League. Played in the Euro League. Great player. So you.

[Luka Doncic]

Obviously, he was okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

He was okay. All right. Just making sure. But I mean, but that's also like. Like, my dad was a soccer player, so I grew up playing the backyard. Playing soccer. It must have an influence on you.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, I went to his games. You know, I was. When I started, like, being ball boy, I was a lot of ball boy in yearly games. I was ball boy for Olympia. So that's how I used my time to just get on basketball. The last game, before the game, halftime, and after the game, I was just shooting.

[Jason McIntyre]

And what about you, LeBron? Like, what was the first moment where you basketball came into your life? And you're like, I love this.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know the exact moment, but, you know, I think I was able to watch it, you know, when I. When I had to. When I got to see some of the greatest that played the game, I was inspired by them. Like, I was inspired by MJ and, you know, inspired, you know, by Anthony Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill and those guys, like, their sneakers inspired me. The commercials they used to do back then inspired me. And then, you know, just being outside, you know, I just always. I was always a kid that just wanted to play whatever it was. If we was playing, we was playing tag. If we was playing football, we was playing baseball. If we was playing football, basketball, you played everything. Everything. Kickball, you know, that was very popular in my community. Just running around and Just exerting as much energy as possible till the lights, you know, on the street came on. It was time to get in the house. Like, I just wanted to do whatever. And then I think once I got into, like, you know, the youth leagues, where it started being competitive, I actually love the competitive nature of basketball. You know, being out there, five on five, and we're playing for something. You know, we're playing to see who can score the most points and win a game, you know, and then ultimately it got to like, oh, if we win the majority of games, we can win something. We want to have a banquet and have medals and little trophies. Like, that stuff inspired me, you know, because I watched, you know, NBA guys and college guys, at the end of the season, they get to host a trophy or whatever. I thought that was pretty inspiring. So, you know, as a kid, you just always inspired by the ones that's. That's already doing it. You know, I think that that was a big moment for me, for sure.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's funny, you said the commercials. Like, I didn't really start playing hoops till I was about 13. Like, played hockey, soccer, baseball, lacrosse, all sorts of stuff.

[Luka Doncic]

He's good at soccer. In tech tennis.

[LeBron James]

I saw you, you know, play tennis.

[Jason McIntyre]

You said a little louder. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[LeBron James]

You still play tennis?

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, he's good.

[Jason McIntyre]

Still. Still love to play. That's the kid in me that never goes away.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like, I still just want to be out there playing. It brings up like a. You know, I was gonna say, though, that, like, when I was 13, what really got me into basketball was Michael Jordan, the first Air Jordan shoes commercials, Spike Lee, just like you were saying, like, that stuff inspires you as a young kid. A kid. It's like a fun time to get into the game. But what I. What I heard from both of you that I think is really important is you played informally.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

You weren't playing on the playground. You were playing in the street. You're playing all the time, informally. And it leads me to a topic here that I think the study really highlights, is that, you know, especially in the United States, sports, youth sports has been commercialized. Yeah, youth sports. So, like, this is my way of explaining it. You know, when I grew up, you play soccer and hockey in the winter. You play baseball, box lacrosse in the summer, and it costs you, like, 100 bucks a season for each sport. Well, somebody. Some entrepreneur, someone says, well, I need to make them make a business of this. Said, well, if I can sell the dream to the family, the little Sarah or Johnny, you know, they might have a chance to go somewhere with this, but they got to commit to this sport for the year.

[LeBron James]

That's the worst thing you can do, right?

[Jason McIntyre]

So what happens is now the parents are involved, there's a system. They're not playing informally. You know, it leads to personal trainers, strength and conditioning coaches, like, trying to unpack that and rewind. It is like, now we don't like. How many times do you drive by a park now and see kids playing basketball?

[LeBron James]

Very rare.

[Luka Doncic]

Not much.

[Jason McIntyre]

Your boys just come through the whole system. Like, do they go to the park and play with their friends? Very rarely.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, very rarely. You know, they did play outside a little bit, but mostly it's indoors. They didn't.

[Jason McIntyre]

And programmed.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, and programmed. And they lived, you know, for the majority of the time. My kids growing up lived in, you know, South Florida and lived in Southern California, so, like, you know, it was no reason for them not to be outside. You know, I get it if they majority of the time grew up in Northeast Ohio, where you have four seasons and it's hard to get on an outdoor court, whereas 6 inches of snow or raining crazy, it's just. It's not the thing. And like you said, I think not allowing kids to. To just go out and just, you know, explore. All sports, you know, basketball, football, soccer, lacrosse, track and field. Like, me and my guys, we ran track and field as well. And we were like, super duper young, you know, we played football all the way, American football all the way through high school. You know, we didn't just cap it at one thing. You just did one thing all year round. And I think a lot of kids burn. They burn the hell out. You just tell them to do just, okay, I'm just do this one all year round. I'm just playing basketball or just play volleyball or just play soccer all year round. You burn out, you know, at 22, 23, 24, you know, because you've just been doing it or young, 13, 17, you know, they say, fuck, the hell with it. I'm done. I don't even want to play no more, you know, so I don't think putting the cap on these kids, being able to. They should be able to just explore, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do they still play on the playground in Slovenia? Not much even there, it's still more programmed now. It's fascinating to me because I think, like, what happens is that's where we develop the joy, right? Is playing with your friends, not a coach telling you what to do. It's trial and error.

[Luka Doncic]

And it's like, on the playground, you're allowed to make mistakes, and nobody's gonna say anything. And that's. I think that's, like, one of the main points, too.

[Jason McIntyre]

And. And that's where you, like, I think every generation learns from the one before, but you also learn from the playground. Trial and error.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like, you go and play, you try stuff, it doesn't work. No one says, don't do that. Like, you know, like, there's late passes. Like, that develops, you know, things you. You did at your size that no one did, it didn't do. If you weren't handling the ball, you had a coach saying, you're our four.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

From the time you're, you know, 10 years old.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't have a. A basketball trainer until second, third, maybe fourth year in the NBA.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right.

[LeBron James]

Like, my. My basketball training was just being on the court. Let's just go hoop. Yeah, let's go hoop. Let's 105 on 5 or 2 on 2 or 3 on 3. Or like, a game that we played, you know, when I was growing up was called 33 or 21. You know, basically, it's one man for himself, and you could be guarded by all your friends. And if I score, I go to the free throw line, I shoot two free throws, and I get it back. Like, it's like. And that's how a lot of creation started with me being able to dribble around three or four guys going behind the back, going. Being able to shoot, you know, getting physical with your friends. Like, you know, so it definitely helped me out a lot.

[Jason McIntyre]

And let me ask you. Let me just pose this for you. So you're out there trying to get to between two, three, four guys at your size, your size, or even my size. What is more joyful? Where do you learn? We learn a lot faster through trial and error. Or a coach saying, here's the cones. I want you to cross over, spin. Like, that's gone for our kids in a way. Right. We don't get that time to just play, to try things, to make mistakes, to play weird games. Right. Like, you would never go to a, you know, a skills coach right now, and he'd be like, all right, guys, 21.

[LeBron James]

No.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right. You know what I mean? It's like, we got a program we're gonna try to teach. And so what happens is the joy, the creativity comes out of the game. And that's why you get kids quitting at 13. Right. So, like, did you ever have that like, do you ever have skills coaches when you were growing up in Slovenia or just your coach?

[Luka Doncic]

Not really. Just. Just my coach. Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's crazy.

[Luka Doncic]

I don't think, like, skilled coach exist.

[Jason McIntyre]

It.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, you know, I was born in 90s still, so 99.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, that, but, like, it's still 90s barely.

[LeBron James]

Oh, my God, he's born in 99. It's crazy.

[Jason McIntyre]

99.

[LeBron James]

I just got instantly sleepy when he said he was born in 19.

[Jason McIntyre]

I was your age in 99.

[LeBron James]

That's crazy.

[Jason McIntyre]

You notice the grays. But. But it is. It's not. Everything's bad. Right. Like, I'm not here to say that everything's better. Social things get better and better and better. We know more about the body. We know more about a lot of things nowadays. But I do think that the commercialization has really made it less joyful, less creative. Right. And then you don't have the social aspect as much.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, it's like the pressure the system puts on a parent. Like, I can't take this away from my kid. I got to give him this chance. Instead of the kid being like, I'm going to the park to play, or I'm gonna go in the backyard. And so I think it makes it complicated. You know, I don't know how we kind of add that piece back into this puzzle where kids are playing informally. I don't know. Like, maybe this is what you're gonna try to do.

[Luka Doncic]

That's what we're trying. Like. Like I say, you know, the way I grew up was just going after school, going to court, and then go to practice. So I was just, like, I was outside a lot. I even tried the skateboarding. They built a new skate park when I. When I was playing basketball. No, I was wearing everything. It wasn't good. I was too tall for that.

[Jason McIntyre]

That's amazing. So what about the. This project? You know, inside youth basketball? Like, how. How. How do you see it? Like, how do you envision making an impact?

[Luka Doncic]

Well, first of all, I think we got great people on it, like yourself.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. The athletes council.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. You know, just, like, we got people that grew up in different places playing basketball. So you grew up in Canada. Steph grew up in US Derek grew up in Germany. I grew up in Slovenia and Spain. So we're just trying to combine everything, like, you know, like, everything together, you know, see the weaknesses, see the strengths. So just combine everything and let the kids have fun. That's the most important part. I don't have fun like, I had when I was growing up.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's a great concept. I mean, how can we put our heads together? And like. Like I said, a lot of what we're doing, I'm not trying to disparage all skills coaches. It's just like it's become an economy. It's taken away. It's informal play. How can we put our heads together and kind of find a part of the puzzle that is informal, that isn't pressurized? So this is what you want to do, is to help educate coaches, programs, instill it in different places around the country.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. And like I'm saying, I think it's a lot for the kids, you know, having all these different kinds. When I grew up, I didn't have anything. I just had one coach and that was it. There was. I think we're putting a lot of pressure on kids nowadays.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Luka Doncic]

Just by having, like, strength coach, everything.

[LeBron James]

Right. I think. I think a lot of the problem is, you know, with now, with social media and everything, that a lot of our. A lot of people like. And I can only speak for America. Cause I grew up here and I live here. A lot of the skills coaches and trainers and stuff over that, that is involved in a lot of these kids lives, they actually want to be more famous than actual kid. They think they're more important than actual kid that they're training.

[Jason McIntyre]

And their motive is not pure.

[LeBron James]

Their motive is not pure. Like, they want to be in the camera, they want to be recognized. They want to talk to the media. Say, for instance, I trained Luka for two summers and he has a breakout season. Now they wanna do interviews with people like, that's not the fucking objective. The objective is to be there trying to help this kid get better. Try to help this kid, you know, in a sense of him seeing the game maybe further than what he did before. It's not for you now to be famous. And I think that that also changed a lot of the landscaping, too. Of. Of kids not knowing the purity or the essence and the beauty of the game.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. It's. You know, it's tough because I think for me, it all stems back to the commercialization.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

[Jason McIntyre]

Everything being a business now, everything's monetized. Your business as a personal trainer or your business as an AAU team, or now we have nil or whatever it may be. You know, I think that makes it tough. Now. The parents feel the pressure of providing this for the kid, whereas my parents were just like, you want to play soccer this year? Great. You signed up, you know what I mean? And then you go play and then in the backyard you're playing, you're playing with your friends. So it starts with that, I think, like, like you said, we mentioned burnout. Right? We mentioned burnout. We mentioned, you know, a lot of players that are now committing to one sport early. There's been studies done of NBA players coming in the league at 19. Their MRIs don't look the same because they didn't go and play football or baseball or change the dynamic and have that creativity, that joy, that fun. You've had two boys now going through it. Like, maybe talk a little bit about the systemic pressure. Like, what's that like as a parent to feel like all eyes on these kids trying to get a scholarship or whatever it may be?

[LeBron James]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, for me as a parent, and like you said, having my two boys go through the whole AAU program, the all year round basketball seasons, where it's never a break, like, I've made sure that our kids, and my wife included, have always taken a break, you.

[Jason McIntyre]

Know, so what does that look like? What time of year and how do you say it to them?

[LeBron James]

Well, it usually takes part in like July, you know, because I remember when I played, you know, the last tournament was usually like right before the fourth of July. That was a lot last, like AAU tournament. And then you didn't play again until the fall when it cracked back up. Now there's like tournaments, right? Fourth of July, right after the fourth of July, there's more tournaments in August, there's more tournaments throughout the whole summer.

[Jason McIntyre]

There's money to be made.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And myself and Savannah, we've told our kids, like, this is not an all year round thing for you guys. One, we don't want you all to burn the hell out. And two, there needs to be some family time involved as well, too. Like, listen, we get it. We know y' all want to play whatever the case may be, but there needs to be family time as well. And also when you get away from things, it actually makes you even more hungry to get back to it, right? And that's the burnout thing that we were talking about. You know, it allowed him to come home and. Okay, now it's your chance. You want to play the video game? Go ahead, play the video game. You know, you want to just hang with your friends. All right, cool. That's not going anywhere, right? You know, but I had an opportunity to be a part of it for so long because I grew up in the. I grew up in that system as well. I grew up in the AAU system, I grew up in the tournament system, I grew up in the program system. But I mean I also grew up going to a five star academy, you know, where it was all outdoor basketball all day long, you know, so I grew up in that era as well. Like, and that definitely made us grow a love. If you can be outside on blacktop in the summertime in 95 degree weather and you can actually see the steam coming up from the blacktop and you still love it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Then you already know that's what it is. You don't need to do that all year round to know that. I love that. If I came back to it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yep.

[LeBron James]

You know, so, you know, I think we did a great job as far as just making sure. Yes. If this is what you want to do, you're committed to it. Okay, cool. But also, there's no problem with just, you know, taking a little break here and coming back to it. It's no problem at all.

[Jason McIntyre]

After many years in the game, both on court and off, I know all about high stakes showdowns. That's why I'm hooked on Michael Crichton's binary on Audible. From the creator of Jurassic park and ER comes this classic techno thriller about a radical aiming to bring down the government with a deadly nerve gas. The cat and mouse game between the terrorist and a determined State department agent had me on the edge of my seat in the ride over here. But Audible isn't just about heart pounding thrillers. From electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance in far off realms, Audible delivers thrills of every kind. On your command, you'll find gripping titles that keep you guessing, exclusive Audible originals and bestsellers that hook you from the first minute. Ready for your next great adventure? Sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com game and discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat. And now a word from our sponsor. DraftKings. Over to you, Jason.

[Adan]

The NBA Finals are almost here and every second counts with DraftKings Sportsbook and a few official sports betting partner of the NBA. You're not just watching history, you're betting on it. Now's your shot to get in on the action. Player props, game lines, live bets. This is playoff betting at its finest. New to DraftKings. Bet just $5 and if your bet hits, you'll cash in with $300 in bonus bets. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use Code Mind. That's codemind for new customers to get $300 and and bonus bets if your bet wins. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill casino and resort, KS 21 +. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuing. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co audio I hope you enjoyed.

[Jason McIntyre]

That conversation with Luka Doncic. Being a part of his Athletes Council for his Inside Youth Basketball study has been a pleasure for me. It's something that's near and dear to my heart. As someone that fought his way all the way through a long career of basketball, it always fascinates me the landscape that kids have to navigate. How can we help them reach for their dreams? Of course, not all kids are going to make the NBA. But in all sports, kids should have joy, passion, support, belief systems that allow them to learn the characteristics of teamwork, collaboration, learning how to succeed, fail, growing up at the appropriate times, resilience. There's so many things that sport affords us. And when his study came out and other studies similar that have said that 70% of kids have quit sports by the time of 13 because there's too much pressure in the system, there's not enough joy or fun, not enough childhood involved in youth sports. It's alarming and it's something that I feel very passionate about. Not just from the athlete development component, but from developing the health and wellness of our kids in our communities. Sports is such an incredible tool that offers us a place to learn, to grow, to find out who we are, to make friends, teammates, to collaborate. So many gifts that allow us to succeed in life, whether it's with our families, with our careers, jobs, dealing and navigating with the adversity that we find, we all find in life. These are all things that can really be developed through sport. So when I hear kids are quitting sport, you know, I think it's important for us to really dig deep and find out why kids are quitting and why sport for life is not the goal here. Where joy and peace, passion and being able to enjoy the fruits of a childhood. Being active, being healthy, being a teammate, having core memories around sport is so important to our communities, to our families, to our kids. So I feel honored one to have spoken to Luka deeply about why he commissioned this study, why he wants to affect youth basketball the way he does, and how we can all come together that learn, share best practices, and find a way to be more efficient and effective at helping our youth enjoy sports. Whether you're a high performer or whether you're just participating and want to be a part of a team or learn a skill. So important for our communities to give our kids a place to learn, to grow, to fail, to bounce back, and to ultimately succeed in life. So thank you for watching Mind the Game. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe if you haven't. Look forward to seeing you next time.