The Luka Doncic Interview (Part 2)

Summary

Podcast Title: Mind the Game
Host/Author: UNINTERRUPTED | Wondery
Episode: The Luka Doncic Interview (Part 2)
Release Date: June 8, 2025

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Introduction

In the latest episode of Mind the Game, hosted by Dwyane Wade and featuring NBA superstars LeBron James and Luka Doncic, the conversation delves deep into the intricacies of youth basketball development. The trio explores the differences between European and American basketball systems, the impact of commercialization and social media on young athletes, and the pivotal role of coaching in shaping resilient, team-oriented players. A significant portion of the discussion centers around Luka Doncic's foundation-commissioned study, Inside Youth Basketball, which aims to transform the landscape of youth sports.

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Luka's Journey to Real Madrid

The episode begins with Luka Doncic recounting his experience moving to Madrid at the age of 13 to join Real Madrid's basketball program. He describes the initial challenges, including language barriers and cultural adjustments:

• [02:50] Luka Doncic: "It was a difficult decision, honestly. First, I didn't know the language yet... It was hard, but that's how I learned Spanish so quickly."

Luka emphasizes how this move not only enhanced his basketball skills but also profoundly impacted his personal growth.

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European vs. American Youth Basketball Systems

A significant portion of the conversation contrasts European and American approaches to youth basketball. Luka highlights the European emphasis on rigorous practice, fundamental skills, and team play over frequent games:

• [06:19] Luka Doncic: "It's about team play, making the right decisions... It’s different rules in the NBA, but in Europe, it's more about the team."

LeBron and Dwyane echo these sentiments, pointing out that American youth basketball often prioritizes showcasing individual talent over developing foundational skills:

• [07:57] Dwyane Wade: "It's not the kid's journey, it's the parents' journey. The pressure on parents is that your kid's gotta be an early adopter."

LeBron expands on this by discussing the lack of fundamental development in American youth basketball:

• [06:21] LeBron James: "The difference between youth basketball in Europe and America is development. In Europe, it’s about the fundamentals and reading the game."

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The Role of Coaches in Developing Resilient Athletes

The discussion underscores the importance of tough coaching in fostering resilience and accountability among young athletes. Both LeBron and Dwyane share their personal experiences with demanding coaches who pushed them to excel:

• [16:14] LeBron James: "My high school coach kicked me out of practice my sophomore year to put the marker down. It set the tone for accountability."

• [13:56] Luka Doncic: "He yelled at me. He made me cry at halftime... That coach changed how I view basketball."

Dwyane emphasizes that such tough love is essential for building character:

• [13:07] Dwyane Wade: "You have to let them suffer and struggle. That pressure makes you better, not the pressure that makes you not love the sport."

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Impact of Commercialization and Social Media on Youth Sports

The conversation shifts to the detrimental effects of commercialization and social media on young athletes and their development. LeBron and Dwyane critique how these factors shift the focus from personal and team growth to financial gain and public image:

• [11:28] LeBron James: "I've never gotten involved with my kids' coaches... You need to hold them accountable and say what the fuck you need to say."

• [20:50] Dwyane Wade: "Our kids are a little bit corrupted partly by social media... Think about it like you guys can make the easy plays rather than focusing on flashy moves."

They argue that this environment discourages the development of fundamental skills and teamwork, which are crucial for long-term success.

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Success of European Players in the NBA

The trio discusses the rising prominence of European players in the NBA, attributing their success to the strong foundational skills and team-oriented training they receive in Europe:

• [25:39] Dwyane Wade: "America's not great at player development... Europe focuses on fundamentals and team play."

Luka adds that European pride and the desire to represent their country fuel their dedication and work ethic:

• [28:20] LeBron James: "When you have that sense of pride, you have a sense of work ethic that goes a lot longer."

This cultural emphasis on national representation and teamwork creates players who are not only technically skilled but also deeply committed to their roles within a team.

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Inside Youth Basketball Study and Its Implications

A central focus of the episode is Luka Doncic's Inside Youth Basketball study, aimed at understanding and improving the youth basketball experience. Dwyane Wade passionately discusses the importance of this study, highlighting how excessive pressure leads to burnout and dropout among young athletes:

• [34:00] Dwyane Wade: "70% of kids have quit sports by the age of 13 because there's too much pressure in the system. We need to find out why kids are quitting and ensure that joy and passion remain at the heart of youth sports."

LeBron and Dwyane commend Luka for his commitment to transforming youth sports, emphasizing the need for collaborative efforts to prioritize fundamentals, teamwork, and personal growth over commercialization and early specialization.

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Conclusion: Building a Sustainable and Enjoyable Youth Sports Environment

The episode concludes with a unanimous agreement on the necessity of rethinking youth sports to prioritize long-term development, enjoyment, and resilience. The hosts advocate for:

• Teaching Fundamentals: Ensuring young athletes develop strong foundational skills.
• Emphasizing Team Play: Fostering a collaborative and supportive team environment.
• Reducing Commercial Pressure: Shifting focus from individual accolades to collective growth.
• Empowering Coaches: Encouraging coaches to adopt a tough-love approach that builds character.

Luka Doncic's initiative, supported by LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, represents a pivotal step towards creating a more supportive and effective youth sports ecosystem that nurtures both talented athletes and the holistic development of all participants.

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Notable Quotes

• [06:21] LeBron James: "The difference between youth basketball in Europe and America is development. In Europe, it’s about the fundamentals and reading the game."

• [13:07] Dwyane Wade: "You have to let them suffer and struggle. That pressure makes you better, not the pressure that makes you not love the sport."

• [16:14] LeBron James: "My high school coach kicked me out of practice my sophomore year to put the marker down. It set the tone for accountability."

• [25:19] Dwyane Wade: "Unfortunately, there's not enough teaching. It's not enough teachers."

• [34:00] Dwyane Wade: "70% of kids have quit sports by the age of 13 because there's too much pressure in the system."

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Final Thoughts

Mind the Game offers insightful perspectives on the current state of youth basketball, advocating for a balance between competitive drive and personal enjoyment. Through the collaborative efforts of Luka Doncic, LeBron James, and Dwyane Wade, the podcast underscores the importance of cultivating a supportive environment that allows young athletes to thrive both on and off the court.

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Transcript

[Luka Doncic]

What was that? The wind or it's raining?

[LeBron James]

The AC unit, I think, because it.

[Luka Doncic]

Was snowing a little bit today. Right.

[LeBron James]

It's crazy.

[Jason]

It was 89 last week.

[Luka Doncic]

I lived in Dallas. It's the same.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. You get it.

[Dwyane Wade]

They say in Texas, if you don't like the weather, come back tomorrow.

[Luka Doncic]

That's true.

[Dwyane Wade]

It'll be different.

[LeBron James]

It's going to be totally different tomorrow.

[Dwyane Wade]

Welcome back to Mind the Game, brought to you by Uninterrupted and Wondery. This is another conversation with Luka Doncic centered around the study he commissioned through his foundation called Inside Youth Basketball. Stick around to the end of the episode where I'll talk a little bit more about why I'm on Luka's athletes council, why it's important to me, and how we can all help improve the landscape of youth basketball. Learn as much as you can, just as I have, and enjoy this episode of Mind the Gang. You know, one of the things nowadays is that it's an arms race. My kid's gotta get ahead. You know, it's like we saw Tiger woods with a perfect swing on Johnny Carson at 2 years old. And we think that every kid's gotta be great, you know, early. You know, I started playing at 13. I didn't get into the league till I was 22. Wasn't really great or a good player until, like late 20s.

[LeBron James]

Bullshit. But okay. So okay.

[Dwyane Wade]

But it's.

[Jason]

You know what I mean, though?

[Dwyane Wade]

Like, I feel like the pressure on the parents is that your kid's gotta be an early adopter. They gotta be better early. When really, like, we all develop at our own rate, right?

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

You can still be great.

[LeBron James]

That's social media too, because you're seeing everything right now. You're seeing everything over there. Like, when we were growing up, our parents didn't know if this was kid had a training or if this kid was doing. You didn't really see that shit.

[Luka Doncic]

Ye.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yes.

[LeBron James]

You know, our parents only knew that. Okay, this is. You want to play soccer? Okay, cool. You want to play football? Okay, cool. You want to do something else now? You don't want to do it? Okay, relax. It was not like we see this kid. He's being trained five days a week. Oh, shit. Well, my kid's not being trained five days a week. He's not going to make it.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right.

[LeBron James]

We didn't see that.

[Dwyane Wade]

And now it's not the kid's journey, it's the parents journey. Whereas when you're growing up, you're thinking, randy keeps pushing me Left. I hate that. Yeah, I'm gonna learn to go left. Right. And now it's just you and him. Know that we're in this little battle every day all summer instead of. It's on social media, parents are talking about a coach. You know what I mean? It's like this high performance thing. I'd love to know from you what the transition was. So you played a lot of informal basketball growing up. Other sports, you're on the playground outside school. What was it like when you went to Madrid? Thirteen years old.

[Luka Doncic]

Thirteen.

[Dwyane Wade]

Real Madrid.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. I mean, it was. It was a difficult decision, honestly. First, I didn't know the language yet. I know a little bit. Just like, hello, how are you? But then nobody spoke my language. I. I was learning a little bit English, so I knew a little bit, but it was hard. So that's basically that when almost everything moved to basketball, I was playing a little bit soccer because I used to go with the players that were there. Soccer players. They. We went to the same school, so we used to play a little bit, but they were soccer players, so I couldn't do nothing.

[LeBron James]

Sure.

[Luka Doncic]

But it was a lot, you know, I think first two, three months, I almost didn't spoke to anybody.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[Luka Doncic]

You know, but that's how I learned Spanish so quickly. And after that, just. It was amazing. Journey, man.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yes.

[Luka Doncic]

It was something that changed my life for better.

[LeBron James]

How long was you there for? How long was your major dream for?

[Luka Doncic]

Seven years.

[LeBron James]

That's amazing.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

That's incredible.

[Luka Doncic]

Six years.

[Dwyane Wade]

13 to 19.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

That's incredible.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. Six years. Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

And how. What was the structure like in Madrid? So, like, you go there as 13 years old, you're in a dorm, you're with a family.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, no, it was in the dorm first. My first three years, they were building a new dorm. We. We were in the dorm of the school. So it was three people per. Per room. It was very small.

[Dwyane Wade]

Don't speak Spanish.

[Luka Doncic]

Don't speak Spanish. I had a Brazilian guy, I think. Can't remember. I can't remember who I was with because we always changed. But first it was cool. So first year. But then we went to a nice. It was then Ramajit built his own dorm. It was super nice. It was like living in the hotel. So nice. That was different.

[Dwyane Wade]

And how was the day? Like, did you go to practice then school or school, then practice? What was the day like?

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, we started at 7:30, something like that, to 8:30 we had practice. And then from 9:15 to 5:30, it was cool.

[Dwyane Wade]

9:15 to 5:30.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

No wonder you're so smart.

[Luka Doncic]

Thank you.

[LeBron James]

Appreciate that.

[Luka Doncic]

And then from six to nine was practice, so.

[Dwyane Wade]

Six to nine?

[Luka Doncic]

Yes. On Wednesday, we didn't have. We didn't have practice, but every other day, and then Saturday, Sunday, games.

[Dwyane Wade]

Well, that's a good point, because, you know, I feel like here. And you can attest this, LeBron is like, we play a lot of games.

[Luka Doncic]

It's different than New York.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. Explain the difference. Like, I think the AAU stuff has got more. It's showcase. Showcase. Showcase.

[LeBron James]

Game, game.

[Dwyane Wade]

Whereas it feels like. I mean, I don't think Real Madrid's unique in this way, that in Europe in general, you're practicing more than you're playing. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. I would still say Real Madrid is unique.

[Dwyane Wade]

Okay. No offense. Madrid is Madrid. It's great. Okay, we get it. We get it. But I think, like, in Slovenia, you're not playing five games a week.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, no, no, it's the same. I think the whole Europe is the same. We didn't play that much same on the weekends. It's the only game. Two, maybe even one. Yeah. So it was a lot of practices, but I love practice. You know, we had a lot of skill set first, but that was like. That was like half an hour, 45 minutes.

[Dwyane Wade]

Fundamentals.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. Skills just to warm up and then. And then we would play, play. But that's a lot of different. Like, exercise playing. It's not just 5 and 5, 3 and 3. It's advantage. 4 and 3, 2 and 3.

[Dwyane Wade]

It's just learning to read.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Learning to react. Like, that was an emphasis in Europe.

[Luka Doncic]

Yes.

[LeBron James]

That's the biggest difference.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Between youth basketball in Europe and America is that it's the development skill. The fundamentals are not expressed. It's like, just play, play, play. Just play, Just play. You know, And a lot of guys and a lot of kids are not developing their skill. They're not developing the fundamentals. You know, like you just said, you know, there was times during practice that it was all about, you know, advantage basketball. Right. Four on three, three on two. You know, you know, if I. If I can create two on the ball, then I know we have a numbers advantage. You know, instead of reading the game that way, a lot of kids think, you know, we grew up, if I have two on the ball, then I have to figure out a way how to get around this guy or split the double team, you know, I still have to be able to score, you know, and really, that is just, you know, it stops you from reading the game, you know, and you get. You can. You can make it through trade school playing that way. You can make it through high school, you can make it through college, and some guys figure out a way to even make it through the NBA. But as far as how to be great, to be great and transcend it, and being able to inspire your teammates, inspire yourself, inspire your family, inspire the game, being able to be on that wavelength. And I think that's the kind of different, the difference between how they grow up in Europe, teaching the game and how we, you know, teach the game here. I think it's a loss. It's a lost. It's a lost arc here.

[Dwyane Wade]

It goes back, you know, a little bit to your point about this competitive, pressurized system where it's about the kid showing how good he is instead of making the right plays, making the game simple, something you guys have done naturally. And it's probably not all natural. You've learned because you had good coaching along the way to make the right play. Like, you can make a spectacular play, but make the right play more times than not, you know, like, they're going to put two on you guys, and if you go against the two all the time, you're not always going to have success. Whereas if you make the right decision, like you said, you empower your teammates, you make them feel better, you make the game easier for yourself. Feels like that's different in Europe because coaches aren't all about, this kid's going to raise my profile. It's like our team has got to learn to play together. Did you feel that at Madrid, where it's about. Of course we want to develop Luka, but we want to develop a team here that knows how to play the right way.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, definitely. Especially when I was, say, about 15, I had a coach that was. That was hard. It was hard on me. Harder, but hard on Everybody. Like, from 1 to 12, he did the same thing to everybody. It wasn't like just one person. So that's really when I started to playing. Like when I was 15, I started my first practices with the first team. You know, I was scared, I was nervous. But, you know, at some point you get used to it. So I debuted when I was 16. That was. I was shaking. I still remember the moment. But, you know, I think in Europe, like watching Euroleague now, watching league before, it just, like, it's more about the team, you know, team wise, teamwork. But it's different rules in NBA. I always said that when I said it's easier to score in NBA is because it's just different rules. You have a lot of more spacing, you have more minutes. It's eight more minutes. Anything happen in eight minutes. So it's just because of that. Like in Europe, you, you get a big guy like for example, like Eddie Tavares, he plays in Madrid. He's just standing in the paint. Like he can stand in the paint. He's 220. Right. It's hard to score. It's impossible here. You can't do that because it's three second violation.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. Again, I mean the NBA is trying to make it as entertaining as possible too. Right. So the game's slightly different than in Europe where it's still, maybe the, the roots of the game are still there. But it is like, it's an interesting point to think about the way our kids grow up learning the game, the culture around the game. And that difference is really important. I think you see it so often, you know, just the thought process and unfortunately, I think there's something to be said for that creeping into the system. And the parents too, right. They're worried about their kids position here. Let me make a comment that I have to take some, I have to part of this too. But my generation of parents being 51 now, you know, the last kind of 20, 25 years of parenting, we've been all over our kids trying to protect them. You just mentioned you had a coach that was all over you. Yeah, you know, my high school coach, college coach, all my coaches were all over me. Your high school coach was on you. Like he's not putting up with, you know, poor decisions, not playing the right way. That has become so hard nowadays because the commercialization. Yeah. So whether it's a skills trainer, an AAU coach, you can't, you don't feel one that your business can suffer losing the kid. So you're. Oh, you know, there's not, it's not as frequent that we're going to tell a kid the truth and be tough on them all the time because you're.

[LeBron James]

Afraid you don't leave.

[Dwyane Wade]

And in college too, for money.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Dwyane Wade]

You go on the street for a few more bucks.

[Luka Doncic]

But at some point I think you need that.

[Dwyane Wade]

You got to have it. Or I'll say it's a disservice to our kids because we have to let them suffer and struggle. Right. And feel that pressure that's going to make you better, not the pressure that's going to make you not love the sport.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. I've never got Involved with my kids. Coaches from Bronnie growing up to where he is now, and Bryce, you know, on his way to Tucson, to Arizona. I've never got involved. I've never went to a practice and sat through practice the whole time and see how my son was being utilized. I never got on the phone with the coaches. Listen, he's there to coach my son. Coach him however you want to. And I think you need to hold him accountable. I hope you hold him more accountable than any other kid here, you know, and say what the fuck you need to say, no matter what. You know, no matter how it's being said. Because it's not. Sometimes it's not. If you could just take the message and not about how he's saying it. Just take the message out of it, you know, I think that builds character as well. You know, And I think it's part of the reason why they are where they are at their stages in their lives. You know, babying your kid and always, you know, thinking that your kid is this and thinking your kid is that and not allowing coaches to coach them or not allowing people to be hard on them. And as soon as a coach or someone says something to him, you pull them and go somewhere else or, you know, or as soon as someone says something bad about your kid, you're the first person to go talk to his face. It's like, all right, you fucking go coaching, dude.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. Like, you know, it's like, really, life is way more nos than yes. If our kids aren't used to hearing no, like, how are they going to survive when they're adults? Right? And I think that's what. Right. As parents, my generation of parents, putting myself in this picture, we're so scared to let our kids fail. Let them struggle, Let them learn from that failure. Now, how do they face, you know, moments, adversity, resilience? How do they build those scars? So, you know, I think all three of us were fortunate. Like, it changed. Like, it was pivotal in my journey that my college coach was on my ass.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. Every day I would say the same.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

And that in particular, that coach, when you were 15, was the. Like, the. One of the main ones. Like, give me examples, because I don't think kids today understand, like, they're gonna say, oh, I'm sure Luca's coach never yelled at him.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah, no, no, he did. I think one example was we were up. It was quarterfinals or around 16. We were up at, like, 30 at halftime. But I was bullshitting a little bit. No, he yelled at me. He made me cry at halftime. Yeah. And. But, like, this coach, like, changed a little bit of how I view basketball, like, during the time. And, like, that year, I think we didn't lose a game, and we won finals by 30 points. And just. I mean, I think everybody needs it. Yeah. To be, like, a really good player, you need the guy. Like, they'll tell you everything, especially coach. And, you know, I love him for that. He did it for me. Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, especially you two guys come in to the NBA straight. I mean, you coming, obviously, from a professional team, but as a teenager, and you're not going to college, like, that experience, that's pivotal for me. So you're lucky, right. You had a high school coach that was like, this is how you're gonna play.

[LeBron James]

Absolutely. I mean, he was on my ass from day one, you know, and I had a. My high school coach was a college coach at Eastern Michigan.

[Dwyane Wade]

That's right.

[LeBron James]

At one point. And so he knew what you were going to see. Yeah. Yeah. So he knew, you know, what I was going to see. He actually coached a couple pros that made it to the NBA, you know, while he was in college. But, you know, from day one, when I. When I stepped foot, you know, as a. As a freshman, you know, he was literally, like, on me crazy, you know, and, like, one story, you know, Coach D was. He was out of his mind. He was a lunatic. He just. Just finally retired from coaching last year at Duquesne. Finally retired. But, like, you know, my freshman year, you know, I made, you know, you know, all county, all city, all state. We didn't lose a game. My freshman year, we won the state championship. I was state championship MVP for the tournament. And, you know, so I come in first practice my sophomore year, I'm kind of feeling myself a little bit. We won it all. I'm getting a little praise, whatever. First day of practice my sophomore year, he kicked me out of high. He kicked me out of practice just.

[Dwyane Wade]

Just to put the marker down, just.

[LeBron James]

To put the mark. He. He looked at me, said, best sophomore in the country, my ass. Get the fuck out of here. And kicked me out of practice my. My. My sophomore year, you know, and I was obviously pissed off, like, what the fuck is wrong?

[Dwyane Wade]

Why is he picking on me?

[LeBron James]

They were picking on me. But he set the tone. He set the tone for that. That season is like, I'm not gonna even allow you to even think about getting overly confident or having a big head coming in here, because this shit is not about you, you know, it's about what we're trying to build and he knew like you are the guy, but I'm not about to give you no indicate indication that you are. So, you know, and I still, a lot of the things that I learned from him, I still like just use to this day just like being held accountable and you know, being a players coach, being able to be coachable.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yep.

[LeBron James]

You know, and you know, so. Absolutely. Just having that tough love.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know, he gave you a gift that day. Absolutely.

[Dwyane Wade]

But you don't realize it at the moment.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. I mean, you know, how many practices I've been in, we've been in and for us to be able to remember two moments in our careers, you know, that lets you know that that shit is instilled in our brain and it played a part of who we are.

[Dwyane Wade]

Today, you know, and unfortunately, you know, going back to this again, like how many parents are allowing that these days?

[LeBron James]

Yeah, right.

[Dwyane Wade]

That's the tough part. How was your dad with you being a, you know, a great player in your league? Like how. What was his part of your basketball journey?

[Luka Doncic]

I mean, I don't think he didn't get involved. Yeah. Like you say, you know, there's a great lesson. Like he said with his kids, you know, he didn't, don't talk to the coach, nothing. You know, he was just, you know, being there to support but didn't do much. Like. Yeah, what I'm saying being fault.

[Dwyane Wade]

That's your journey.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right. It's the same like, you know, if I went home and told my dad, you know, coach me today.

[Luka Doncic]

Good for him.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. He said, my dad would have said to me, what'd you do? You little, you know, what'd you do? You must have done something right.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Let you go and figure those things out. Right. Yeah, I think it's, look, it's, it's, it's not like we're going to put it all back in the bottle.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

For sure. Right. But things like your program can help, like just make.

[LeBron James]

I think it's awesome.

[Luka Doncic]

Step by step.

[LeBron James]

I think that's all. Step by step, baby steps. I think that's awesome.

[Dwyane Wade]

Continue to just make a little influence on the way we think about it. And I do think I keep bringing up the parents, but I do think we have to help educate parents because a lot of them don't know.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

You know, they. How would they know? Right. They're told, you know, you got to sign them up for this, that they got to be with me. All year round. You know, they don't understand. Let. Let the kid run his own rehears, own race. Let them figure it out, find the joy and passion on their own. All those things that are so important. I think that your program has given us a chance to like one like you. You committed money and resources through your foundation.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

To commission a study. Like, it's not just us three talking.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Dwyane Wade]

You know, hopefully we know a few things through our experiences, but you commission a study like, that's an amazing, amazing commitment to the landscape. Right.

[LeBron James]

Congrats. Yeah, congrats. Really, you're involved as well, right?

[Dwyane Wade]

I'm here to help here.

[LeBron James]

That's pretty.

[Dwyane Wade]

We'll be calling you too.

[LeBron James]

And you know, I got a couple. Couple ideas.

[Dwyane Wade]

I bet you do. I bet you do. I mean, you've seen it firsthand already, right?

[LeBron James]

For sure.

[Luka Doncic]

For sure.

[Dwyane Wade]

Let's do it. This episode is sponsored in part by American Express. American Express knows that for an obsessive basketball fan like me, the playoffs mean a lot of travel time. Between broadcasting games and catching up with old teammates, I'm on the road almost every week from Boston to LA and everywhere in between. After all these years, I've learned that the journey is as important as the destination. That's why I've always tried to find a spot to stretch, grab a coffee, and get my mind right before heading over to the arena. Fortunately, there's a card that makes every part of that journey better. With Amex Platinum, you earn five times membership rewards points on prepaid hotels and flights booked through amextravel.com on up to $500,000 on flight purchases per year. Plus you get access to the Centurion Lounge, which makes travel that much more enjoyable. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. For more information, visit americanexpress.com/travel. But going back to like in Europe, in Madrid, they're teaching you to play and think through the prism of team game, making the right decisions. You know, our kids are a little bit corrupted partly by social media that it's about his bag. He's got this. What can he do here? What can he do?

[Luka Doncic]

What does this even mean?

[Dwyane Wade]

Bag of tricks. But, you know, like, think about it like you guys both made some made. You made a couple tonight, crazy shots. You made a couple tough fadeaways tonight. But the reason you guys are great players, because most of the time, you can do the easy shit. Get to the rim, finish, make your free throws, make your open threes, okay. Then you get to the step Back. Boom. What the game is one on making fundamental plays. Not your bag, right? I know they don't talk about that in Europe when you're growing up.

[Luka Doncic]

I know I never heard the thing since, I mean, until I came to.

[LeBron James]

The right and when I was growing up, it wasn't talked about it like my, the. The least amount of dribbles to get where you need to get to was.

[Dwyane Wade]

When I grew up, efficiency.

[LeBron James]

Michael Jordan wasn't out there dribbling a thousand times, you know, to get to the spot. He. Get to a spot, right? And raise. You know, Isaiah Thomas is great of a handle. Isaiah Thomas had. Isaiah, get to a spot and raise. You know, all these guys that I, that I grew up, Grant Hill, get to a spot. I'm bigger than you. Straight line, Big Dog Robinson, you know, I'm bigger than you. Allen Houston, you know, all these great players, you know, that I grew up watching and admiring. Penny Hardaway. Yes, they could dribble the basketball, but there's no Tracy McGrady. Even as great as Tracy's handle was, it was, I'm bigger than you. I'm going to get to the spot in the least amount of dribbles. Kevin Garnett, you know, it's good footwork. Get up over top, work, get over the top. If I get, if I, If I'm bigger than you and I get you on my shoulder, I get you on my hip, I'm gonna use my size. You know, I see it all the time. It's like, you know, I'll be on social media, like, LeBron has no bag. It's like I'm sitting over here.

[Dwyane Wade]

What is that?

[LeBron James]

LeBron has no bag, and I'm sitting like a 50 billion points.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right? Leading scorer of all time in the NBA, no bag. That proves the point.

[LeBron James]

Yes. Just play, like, play the game the right way. And I hope that our generation, you know, our younger generation don't get, you know, swamped by saying, okay, I need a bag, I need a bag, I need a bag. Like, you know, work on your game, know what you're going to be good at in order to help the team improve the next year to be a better player.

[Luka Doncic]

Right.

[LeBron James]

You know, if you come in as a guy, as my offensive game is not developed, come in, you defend, you get extra points, possessions, you get extra rebounders for the guys. Okay? And then next year, you, you work on your game. In off season, it's only one or two if you want to three guys maximum, that's going to be handling the ball anyways.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right.

[LeBron James]

We don't need you to have a bag. Right.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

It's only going to be, you know, we have the luxury of having three guys, you know, us two and ar. But not many teams have three guys that's going to be handling the ball like that anyways. You know, you can make $200 million in the NBA if you defend and shoot a corner three pointer.

[Luka Doncic]

Let's see, you're going to play.

[Dwyane Wade]

But that's the biggest point. And I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but like, all the time you're doing this that you're never ever going to use as the levels go up, if you can just make open shots, space the floor.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Play smart. Like you can go up a level.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. I mean, 100%. I mean, like he said.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah.

[Luka Doncic]

I don't have nothing more to add.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah. I mean, well, that's that. But that's the thing. Right?

[Luka Doncic]

But it's true. Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

But the thing is, like, you know, you guys are creators, you know, in the way the game's played today. We put shooters on the floor to create space for the creator. They make you better by creating space. You make them better by being a creator. The minute one of them starts doing this, they're going out of the game.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right. So it's interesting the way we perceive or we allow our kids to perceive that. I don't know where that. Why that has been able to have a louder voice than coaching, than fundamentals, than team play.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Dwyane Wade]

You know?

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. One more important thing is like, for guys, know your role, know what you do good and do that. You know, don't do something that you're not good at. It's gonna. It's not gonna help.

[LeBron James]

It's gonna expose you.

[Dwyane Wade]

Such an important part of winning teams is knowing your role. Right. Starring at your role, being able to be good at your role.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Dwyane Wade]

When guys start to have the wrong perspective on their role play outside themselves, team is going down the other way. How do we get kids to appreciate the fundamentals rather than the highlight reels? The mixtape.

[Luka Doncic]

We have to teach.

[LeBron James]

There has to be teach.

[Dwyane Wade]

I think that's. That's a great word. You know, I think unfortunately there's not enough teaching.

[LeBron James]

It's not enough teachers.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right. Enough teachers. Great point.

[LeBron James]

It's hard to teach if the teachers don't know what the hell they teaching.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right. Right.

[Luka Doncic]

It's.

[Dwyane Wade]

Now it's more about scheduling tournaments and games.

[Luka Doncic]

And it's a lot. I mean, what I learned, it's a lot of Games here, A lot of games. They play a lot of games. Less practice. Yeah, but in the end, like, the greatest players come from America, so they do something good.

[Dwyane Wade]

Well, let's, let's talk about that for a second because, you know, you could make a case that of the top players in the league, there's got to be five of the top five to ten are from Europe.

[LeBron James]

Correct.

[Luka Doncic]

Right now.

[Dwyane Wade]

Now, yeah. Right. But why? Why? Why? I think what we're talking about plays a role in this. You know, I'll make a statement that'll probably be aggregated and I'll be a meme for this, but America's not great at player development. I'm not saying there's not great coaches. Great coaches here. Yeah, but not enough. I think one of the problems with America in all sports, to defend America is it's too big. There's no one way, there's no one system, there's no one idea we're all competing. And I think that's allowed the commercialization to kind of influence the game.

[LeBron James]

That's a good point.

[Dwyane Wade]

Like, think about.

[LeBron James]

They get no smaller, right?

[Dwyane Wade]

It's not, it's not getting smaller. Well, it might, it might right now, but that's another topic. But, but like Slovenia, 2 million people wins a Euro. Yeah, like, that's, that's crazy to think about. Right. But that's because it was fundamentals, it was team play. Like you guys, you could say, I mean, you were what, 18, 17.

[Luka Doncic]

18.

[Dwyane Wade]

18. You'd say. Okay, well, we didn't know that Luca was Luca completely yet maybe going to that tournament. We knew you were going to be an NBA player. We didn't know you were going to be what you are. You kind of announce.

[Luka Doncic]

I didn't know either.

[Dwyane Wade]

Yeah, but you announced yourself there, and at Madrid and the Euroleague, all that stuff. But the teamwork, right. Two million people, you see it all over the world. I think sometimes we forget, like, America's so big, so many opinions, so many regions.

[LeBron James]

There's also such a pride thing, too.

[Dwyane Wade]

Great.

[LeBron James]

You live in Slovenia, you live in some of these countries. That's not as big as obviously, you know, American cities. It's a sense of pride to be able to go out there and represent your country.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know, everything is city based here, you know, and it took a while for us as far as the Olympics to get that. That sense of.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right.

[LeBron James]

Pride back.

[Dwyane Wade]

Right.

[LeBron James]

You know, you know, you know, we got our ass kicked in 2004, you know, and then we lost in the World Championship in 2006. It took us time to be like, oh, like this is real, like, right. You know, the rest of these countries not only are getting better with the game of basketball, but it's a sense of pride too, you know, and when you have that sense of pride, you have a sense of work ethic that goes a lot longer. You have a sense of accountability that's a little bit longer. You have a sense of just like, just wanting to be there, like, because you know what you're representing. And I think a lot of that has to do with it too, because it's just cities. So yeah, it's like America. But it's like everybody talking about where you from? I'm from Chicago, I'm from Houston, I'm from la.

[Luka Doncic]

Says America. Yeah.

[LeBron James]

No one says, yeah, everyone says the city they're from, you know, and you got it's country based all over the world. It's like. And it's a sense of pride. And you see that, like, I've obviously been a part of four USA teams to be able. And then you see that, you feel that, you know, you actually really feel it. You feel it from not only the competition on the floor, but you. You feel it from the fucking chance, right. Of the fans in the crowd, how passionate it is, you know, so that's what I play.

[Luka Doncic]

That's what I play every year since.

[Dwyane Wade]

But that, but that's an interesting point about the cities, is that you see, like, if it's not. If there's a way out, like that's a way out for a lot of American players. Right. Or someone else can play.

[Luka Doncic]

You.

[Dwyane Wade]

You can't not play for Slovenia. Right. Like, you all feel like we got to play.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah.

[Dwyane Wade]

Because we're all we have.

[Luka Doncic]

True.

[Dwyane Wade]

Tell me about that feeling though, and the connection with the fans. Because I went back for Goran Dragic's retirement. Games sold out in like five minutes, two minutes.

[Luka Doncic]

I mean, we had some great names coming, so.

[Dwyane Wade]

That's true. That's true. But still like Nash. Yeah. But still like for, you know, a country of that size, like, it's gotta be like there's a connection, there's a way of. We have to play this way.

[Luka Doncic]

We have to.

[Dwyane Wade]

We need all our guys.

[Luka Doncic]

Yeah. I mean, that's why I was playing, you know, I was. Because of pride. And I like to represent my country. But you see, you know, there's the mycon. My country lives for, like sports. There's a lot of. For how small we are. I think we have a great sport. Sports people bicyclists. We have skiing.

[LeBron James]

Huh?

[Dwyane Wade]

How do you say? Pocaja. How many Tour de France you won?

[Luka Doncic]

Oh, I don't know, but a lot probably.

[Dwyane Wade]

He's one of few. You got mba, you got soccer, you got ski jumpers, everything. You guys, for 2 million people, it's incredible.

[Luka Doncic]

It's a lot. Yeah. So. But that's when like the crowd is into it, you know, I think we give back a lot to our country. So that's why the crowd and the people are really into sports.

[Dwyane Wade]

That's awesome. Well, I want to salute you on the.

[LeBron James]

Absolutely.

[Dwyane Wade]

You know this incredible, incredible inside youth basketball study.

[Luka Doncic]

Thank you.

[Dwyane Wade]

I'm happy to be along for the journey.

[LeBron James]

Impact and congratulations.

[Luka Doncic]

Thank you.

[Dwyane Wade]

Cheers to our youth. To our kids.

[Luka Doncic]

Thank you for having me.

[Dwyane Wade]

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[Jason]

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[Dwyane Wade]

Enjoyed that conversation with Luka Doncic. Being a part of his Athletes Council for his Inside Youth Basketball study has been a pleasure for me. It's something that's near and dear to my heart. As someone that fought his way all the way through a long career of basketball. It always fascinates me the landscape that kids have to navigate. How can we help them reach for their dreams? Of course, not all kids are going to make the NBA, but in all sports, kids should have joy, passion, support, belief systems that allow them to learn the characteristics of teamwork, collaboration, learning how to succeed, fail, growing up at the appropriate times, resilience. There's so many things that sport affords us. And when his study came out and other studies similar that have said that 70% of kids have quit sports by the time of 13 because there's too much pressure in the system, there's not enough joy or fun, not enough childhood involved in youth sports. It's alarming and it's something that I feel very passionate about, not just from the athlete development component, but from developing the health and wellness of our kids in our communities. Sports is such an incredible tool that offers us a place to learn, to grow, to find out who we are, to make friends, teammates, to collaborate. So many gifts that allow us to succeed in life, whether it's with our families, with with our careers, jobs dealing and navigating, with the adversity that we find we all find in life. These are all things that can really be developed through sport. So when I hear kids are quitting sport, I think it's important for us to really dig deep and find out why kids are quitting and why sport for life is not the goal here. Where joy and passion and being able to enjoy the fruits of a childhood, being active, of being healthy, being a teammate, having core memories around sport is so important to our communities, to our families, to our kids. So I feel honored one to have spoken to Luka deeply about why he commissioned this study, why he wants to affect youth basketball the way he does, and how we can all come together and learn, share best practices and find a way to be more efficient and effective at helping our youth enjoy sports, whether you're a high performer or whether you're just participating and want to be a part of a team or learn a skill. So important for our communities to give our kids a place to learn, to grow, to fail, to bounce back, and to ultimately succeed in life. So thank you for watching Mind the Game. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe if you haven't. Look forward to seeing you next time.

[Luka Doncic]

Absolutely.

[LeBron James]

Get him on up out of here.

[Dwyane Wade]

What you doing next week?

[LeBron James]

Get him. Get him up out of here. Get him. Get him up out of here. Sound guy, get his mic. Let him get up out of here.