The NBA Playoffs and Coach Keith Dambrot

Summary

Mind the Game: The NBA Playoffs and Coach Keith Dambrot Episode Summary

Released on April 17, 2024, "Mind the Game" by UNINTERRUPTED | Wondery features an in-depth conversation between NBA stars LeBron James and JJ Redick alongside Coach Keith Dambrot. This episode delves into the intricacies of the NBA playoffs, exploring strategic nuances, mental toughness, and the evolution of basketball coaching from high school to the professional level.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with a warm introduction, highlighting its significance as a two-part discussion focused on the NBA playoffs and featuring the esteemed Coach Keith Dambrot. Dambrot, a veteran with 40 years of coaching experience across high school and college basketball, shares his insights on coaching future NBA talent, including his experience coaching LeBron James during his high school years.

Notable Quote:
Host (Unknown Speaker) [00:55]:
"Today’s episode is a very special episode... we are also joined by LeBron James's high school basketball coach, Coach Keith Dambrot."

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2. Strategic Deep Dive: Top Locking and Defensive Schemes

A significant portion of the conversation centers around defensive strategies, notably "top locking." Coach Dambrot clarifies the misconception between "top locking" and "top blocking," explaining it as an off-the-ball defensive scheme designed to force offensive players towards the basket, thereby limiting their shooting opportunities.

Notable Quote:
Coach Keith Dambrot [00:21]:
"Top locking is an off the ball defensive scheme where you force the shooter... back towards the basket or the baseline."

The discussion further explores other defensive concepts like "icing" or "downing" in pick-and-roll scenarios, emphasizing the importance of denying easy shots and forcing turnovers.

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3. Offensive Strategies: Motion vs. Flex Offense

LeBron James and Coach Dambrot dissect various offensive schemes, contrasting the free-flowing nature of the motion offense with the structured approach of the flex offense. They highlight the adaptability required in the playoffs, where teams must continuously adjust their strategies to counteract their opponents' defenses.

Notable Quote:
LeBron James [20:03]:
"I want overload. I want all the information. Everything, everybody, every individual, every pros and cons."

The conversation underscores how the flex offense relies on baseline screens and pin-downs, a staple in high school and some college programs, while motion offense emphasizes ball and body movement to create scoring opportunities.

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4. The Mental and Emotional Toll of Playoffs

Transitioning from strategies to the psychological aspects of playoff basketball, LeBron James shares personal anecdotes about his first playoff game, revealing the immense pressure and nerves that accompany postseason play. Coach Dambrot echoes this sentiment, discussing how mental mistakes can lead to series losses and the heightened emotional stakes in playoff scenarios.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James [11:03]:
"I was nervous as hell. My stomach was hurting all goddamn long, all day, until literally until the ball jumped."

Coach Keith Dambrot [15:00]:
"The mental side of the playoffs... is a huge separator because oftentimes mental mistakes within a game can lead to a series loss."

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5. Coaching in the Playoffs vs. Regular Season

The dialogue delves into how coaching approaches shift from the regular season to the playoffs. LeBron emphasizes the importance of preparation and adaptability, stating that playoff coaches must anticipate and counteract every possible scenario their opponents might employ. Coach Dambrot adds that playoff coaching often involves treating every game with the same intensity as a regular-season game, ensuring players are perpetually prepared.

Notable Quote:
LeBron James [19:12]:
"Preparation, prep. How much prep are you getting going into a series to win?"

Coach Keith Dambrot [20:25]:
"When you get to the playoffs, it didn’t feel any different because you were prepping for a playoff."

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6. The Role of Luck and Adaptability in Playoffs

LeBron and Dambrot discuss the unpredictable nature of the playoffs, where unexpected events—like player injuries or critical buzzer-beaters—can drastically alter a series' outcome. They debate whether luck plays a significant role or if it's more about seizing pivotal moments.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James [29:19]:
"If I'm playing the Clippers, you've got to deal with Blake and his points in the paint and his role passes from CP."

Coach Keith Dambrot [30:11]:
"But, I think what's different is if you make that adjustment with six minutes to go in the third quarter and you come back, still lose the game, the next night you might be playing Memphis."

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7. Transitioning from High School to NBA: Skill and Intelligence

The conversation shifts to the development of players from high school through college to the NBA. Coach Dambrot emphasizes the importance of basketball intelligence and the ability to understand and execute complex strategies. Both he and Redick highlight that beyond physical skills, cognitive abilities and adaptability are crucial for longevity in the NBA.

Notable Quotes:
Coach Keith Dambrot [45:19]:
"There's a lot of guys that have talent, but there's a lot of guys that don't have a good enough brain to play in the NBA."

JJ Redick [45:19]:
"Most of the guys in the NBA, and you guys know way more than me, are role players. So you have to be really good at something."

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8. Influence of NBA Strategies on College Basketball

LeBron and Dambrot explore how NBA strategies, particularly those from the Euroleague, have influenced college basketball. They note that college coaching often lags behind the NBA in adopting new offensive and defensive schemes, though some coaches are beginning to innovate by integrating modern concepts into college play.

Notable Quotes:
JJ Redick [51:21]:
"In my mind, the NBA has been influenced by the European basketball... the last thing probably that occurs is the ISOs and finding the elephant in the room."

Coach Keith Dambrot [52:43]:
"Boston College still ran the flex when they joined the ACC."

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9. The Importance of Emotional Intelligence and Team Dynamics

A critical element discussed is the role of emotional intelligence in sustaining an NBA career. LeBron emphasizes that being a team player and maintaining positive relationships are as important as on-court skills. This aspect often determines a player's longevity and success beyond just their athletic performance.

Notable Quotes:
LeBron James [47:34]:
"One of my good friends, Jimmy Iovine, always talks about... when the shit gets bigger than the cat, you get rid of the fucking cat."

Coach Keith Dambrot [49:28]:
"If you get that 10th year, you get that pension. You get that health care."

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10. Final Reflections and Legacy

As the episode wraps up, Coach Dambrot reflects on his distinguished career and shares what he will miss most about basketball, particularly the profound impact he has on players' lives. LeBron echoes the sentiment, acknowledging the invaluable lessons learned and the lasting influence of dedicated coaching.

Notable Quote:
Coach Keith Dambrot [57:17]:
"One of the things that I always tried to teach LeBron was, you're gonna hit some rough moments, but you gotta battle through."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Mind the Game" offers a comprehensive exploration of the multifaceted nature of playoff basketball, blending tactical analysis with personal narratives. Through the expertise of Coach Keith Dambrot and the experiences of LeBron James and JJ Redick, listeners gain a deeper understanding of what sets playoff basketball apart from the regular season. The conversation underscores the significance of strategic preparation, mental resilience, and emotional intelligence in achieving success at the highest levels of the sport.

Transcript

[LeBron James]

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[Coach Keith Dambrot]

All right. We at 247.

[LeBron James]

247. Yep. We're all good, baby.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

How is it? How we looking? Make my mom proud.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yep.

[LeBron James]

Yep. Foreign.

[Unknown Speaker]

Welcome to episode five of Mind the Game with LeBron James and JJ Redick. Brought to you by Uninterrupted and Three Four Two Productions. Today's episode is a very special episode. It's a two part episode. LeBron and I lay the groundwork for the NBA playoffs. What makes them different, what the experience is like as a player going through it. And we are also joined by LeBron James's high school basketball coach, Coach Keith Dambrot. Coach Dambrot coached for 40 years at the college and high school level. He was the head coach at Central Michigan, Akron and of course his latest, stop Duquesne, where they made the NCAA tournament and won their first round game. Coach Dambrot is now retiring. Just a fascinating conversation we have with him. Again, this show is about basketball and we are going to cover all aspects of basketball, including college, high school, youth development, fiba, the wnba. I know we spoke at length last week about the icons in women's college basketball. So awesome to get coach Keith Dambrot's experience, expertise and insight through his lens. And of course through his lens, what it was like to coach a freshman and sophomore LeBron James in high school. There are a few different concepts that we talk about in episode five. Perhaps most importantly is something called top locking. And I want to be very clear on this because there tends to be some confusion, particularly from Jason Gallagher. It is not top blocking, it is top locking. Top locking is an off the ball defensive scheme where you force the shooter, the offensive player coming off of a wide pin down or at any sort of off ball screen and you force him towards the basket. You get on his high side or his top side and you force him back towards the basket or the baseline. All right, let's say the ball is right here, defender there. Let's say there is a shooter in the corner and there is a big guy that's going to screen away for the shooter. As he comes down to screen this big would drop to Protect the basket. And a top lock is simply when the shooter's man gets all the way on the outside forcing him back towards the basket. The protection again comes from this big or whoever is guarding the screener who drops back again, top locking, not top blocking. Oh, real quick on the top blocking thing, which again this is a little bit of a cheat code for the Boston Celtics. Let's say that this is Kristaps Porzingis and let's say this is Jaylen Brown. At any point in time, if Kristaps Porzingis goes to set an away screen on Jaylen Brown and Jaylen Brown's defender gets into a top block and Kristaps Porzingis defender drops back to provide support. Jalen Brown can just go set a screen right here and you've got Kristaps Porzingis popping into space for an open three. That's sort of the counter if you have a shooting big. Also similar to top locking, another concept that it comes up in the conversation is icing or downing. Icing or downing. A pick and roll is when the defender guarding a ball handler on a side pick and roll gets again on the high side or the top side and forces it towards the baseline. The big man who is covering the screener drops back towards the baseline towards the basket to give support to the defender on the ball handler. Again, the defender on the ball handler has completely opened up, gotten on the ball handler's top side and is forcing the ball down towards the baseline. We've got two offensive players here. The screener goes into a pick and roll over here on the side of the court. As that's happening, the big defender would shout ice or down. Again, some teams have color concepts for this, but ice or down, he would then drop to provide support and the guy guarding the ball would jump on the high side of the offensive player of the ball handler and force it down towards the baseline. That is an ice or down motion offense. Motion offense is simply a five man offensive scheme that relies on screening action, ball movement and body movement. Motion offense typically is very free flowing. There's nothing a set action that leads to another action. At least that's how I was taught it. Motion offense just means you're running pin downs, away screens, you're moving the ball side to side. Again, you're just in motion. You know how I was taught motion offense was three out, two in. So three offensive players outside the three point line and two offensive players inside the three point line. And again, motion offense could be any one of these options. You Pass to the wing and you go screen away and replace. As that's happening, maybe you get a cross screen here and you replace. Let's say none of that works. Ball was over here on the right side. Ball goes back to the top of the key Again, motion offense, let's say you can run a pin down here, run a pin down here. That's just motion offense is ball body movement, pin downs, away screens, cross screens, motion offense. Flex offense is another offense we talk about. Flex offense, very simply is a half court offensive scheme that relies on a baseline screen and then a pin down. And that is a continuous offense. A lot of high school teams run it. College teams still run it. Remember Boston College when we played them and I was at Duke, coach Al Skinner? That is literally all they ran offensively was the flex offense. Gary Williams in Maryland also ran the flex offense a ton. This is just a basic flex offense. So you'll have five offensive players and a lot of times a ball handler will enter it this way. He would pass to one of the men up top and make some sort of cut off the other high guy. Once that happens, we are in a flex alignment and this all it is is a baseline screen looking for a layup into a pin down. And again, once you pin down, you go back out to the corner again. This can be continuous baseline cut, pin down. Some teams that still run this once, this first pin down happens a lot of times. This is a big, this is a guard. He would then just come back and set a high pick and roll and you play out of that. So you can run flex to get into other actions or you can make flex continuous. As always, thank you for listening and watching the Mind the game podcast with LeBron James and JJ Redick. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button. Go follow us on whatever audio platform you listen to us on. Thank you for all of the support. Thank you for all the feedback. Thank you for all the discussion points. And my new favorite thing, my new favorite thing from Mind the Game podcast is when I'm watching a game and I happen to be on my Twitter account and one of you guys points out a slot cut. One of you guys points out one of the actions we talk about on the podcast. Pretty awesome for us, so appreciate y'all. And this is episode five of Mind the Game.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Endgame, game two. One of your most iconic shots.

[LeBron James]

What game?

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Game two, 2009 conference finals.

[LeBron James]

Oh yeah, Orlando.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I have a question about that play because that is an example of a, you know, off off ball movement, catch and shoot three.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So if I remember correctly, Mo was taking it out.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Delonte set like a flare screen for Ogalskis.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Right. Right here. I think it was Pavlovich just kind of ran to the ball.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And you were over here on this elbow. You actually never got a screen on that play.

[LeBron James]

No, because I was supposed to. The play was for to fake up and go back door for the lob, and Turk played it, and Turk played it perfectly.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Okay.

[LeBron James]

So I faked up, and I tried to go back for the lob, and I said, it's not open. It's not open. So I just came to the ball.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And Turk that up.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

My only issue on that play, I.

[LeBron James]

Didn'T even see Rashard. He had a hell of a contest.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yes.

[LeBron James]

He was guarding the ball.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

He was guarding Mo. Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, he was guarding the ball. I didn't see until after the fact. I never saw him. I never saw him.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

But you only saw Turk.

[LeBron James]

Only saw Turk.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Do you remember. Do you remember your first playoff game?

[LeBron James]

My first playoff game? I do.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

What do you remember about it?

[LeBron James]

I was nervous as fuck. That's what I remember.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

This was third year.

[LeBron James]

This was third year.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Third year.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. And I don't know, I mean, we can look it up and figure out when was the last time the Cavs was in the post season. But that was just, like, my first year. Okay. I was, like, stabbing myself in my first year. Second year, we missed the playoffs by maybe one or two games, and it's like, okay, I'm here to, like, play ball, but I want to make the next step. I got to get this franchise to the post season and my third year. We finally made the post season, and our first game was against Washington at home. I was nervous as hell. My stomach was hurting all goddamn long, all day, until literally until the ball jumped. Why do.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Why do you think, like, what have you reflected on that? Why do you think you were more nervous for that game than any other game?

[LeBron James]

Well, it's two games. My first ever game in Sacramento, and then I didn't want to lay an egg. I think everybody was watching.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

This is not a narrative podcast. I just want to be clear on this, but I think what you're admitting here is that you felt the burden. You felt the pressure.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Pressure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Who's under more pressure?

[LeBron James]

Yeah. Who is it? What's pressure? What is pressure now? I didn't want to lay an egg, man. I was, what, 20, 20 years old? Got the team to the post season, I didn't want to go out there and shit the bed. I was maybe 21 maybe, but like, I didn't want to shit to bed. First playoff game, you know, look out, there's Gilbert Arenas and Antwan Jamison and Karan Butler and those guys. They were playing great ball that year. We're inexperienced as hell. I didn't want to lay an egg. What'd you have, 32, 11. 11. I laid an egg. All right. Oh, man. In their locker room.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah, I think, I think. Don't quote me on this. I think it was like 35, 7 and 6 or 35, 7 and 7 or something.

[LeBron James]

Well, for the whole series.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

For the whole series, yeah.

[LeBron James]

Oh, shit.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Not bad.

[LeBron James]

No, not bad. Not bad. Not bad for the first one.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

You've played in a ton of playoff games. Obviously you've won championships. There's a lot that's different about the playoffs in the regular season. What is it? What is different about the playoffs in.

[LeBron James]

General or for me in general? We'll get to you specifically in general, as you know, as you've played them a lot of postseason games too. One possession can lose you to series. And compared to the regular season, you can get away with some slippage. You can get away. It's four and five nights. Fucking tired. You know, it's a cold ass Tuesday night in Milwaukee. You know, you're like, holy shit, not this Milwaukee team. I mean, obviously you get up for those guys. But in the post season, one bad stretch, it could be a fucking 6, 0 run. It could be a turnover here. It could be. You didn't top. You didn't top lock JJ when we told you we top locking him all series and now he done seen one go in. Even if you. There's times like where you, you know, you could win a playoff game and because the way you finished the game, you already lost the second one. You done let. You done let that fucking guy or that person get into a rhythm in the fourth quarter because you decided you didn't want to lock in for eight to nine more minutes. And yes, we won the game, but now we may lose the war. Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

The mental side of the playoffs, by the way.

[LeBron James]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Particularly against a really good opponent.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I think it was in episode one you said the further you go into playoffs to win, you have to be a high IQ team.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

It's. It's obviously emotionally draining because of the. There is pressure. It's different. You feel more with each win and loss. You get to two losses in a series. You get to three losses in a series. An elimination game, you're down 3, 2. You've got to go on the road to San Antonio. They won the championship last year. You've got to muster up enough to beat them to get back home. That emotional toll is a lot. The physical toll, of course, playing, but to me, the mental side of it, I think that is a huge separator because oftentimes mental mistakes within a game can lead to a series loss.

[LeBron James]

For sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I think about one I made. I was in Orlando. We were playing in the conference finals against Boston, and I had played a good game. And there was a timeout. Say there was 29 seconds, there was a five or six second difference between shot clock and game clock and go to the timeout. I know we have a timeout. I know we have a timeout. We get to stop. I get the rebound.

[LeBron James]

You dribble first.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

No, first I looked at Stan and I'm not saying it was his fault. I looked. I knew there was a timeout. I knew I should have called a timeout. And I looked at him and he didn't do anything. So then I just instinctively put the ball on the floor and then he called a timeout.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. And now you can't advance the ball.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So now we got three seconds and we've got to take it out. Three quarter court, opposite foul line.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And we didn't get a good shot off. Now we were down. I don't know that we. We win anyways, but that's an example of like a mental mistake.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I'll give you another one. And this one has bothered me for four years. And I'm not throwing this guy under the bus because I think his intention was right. 2020 playoffs, conference finals. You guys are up 10 on Denver and you're down at the end of the game. You've got the ball underneath the basket.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Mason Plumby checks in the game to guard Anthony Davis.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

You were on the left elbow. Anthony Davis is on the right elbow. Danny Green makes some cut or whatever and Anthony Davis runs to the left wing. You never set a pick. In fact, your back was turned to Anthony Davis and Mason Plumlee.

[LeBron James]

Correct. Cause I was just looking at Doe like, give me the ball.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I know. And Mason Plumlee point switched. He point switched and Anthony Davis hit the game winning three.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Now you're down 2 0. Like that stuff, the little tiny place. It's weird because in the playoffs, I would say the little plays get amplified more. Does that make sense?

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Versus a regular season. You go through 82 games, it doesn't feel the same way.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, that's why my body language is so bad throughout the regular season, because I'm trying to gear them up for the post season because they don't understand. Some guys don't understand, like this one play, like you saying, one play could be the difference between your ass going home and going to Cabo or Cancun or wherever the hell you going.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Or.

[LeBron James]

Going to Disneyland or Disney World with the trophy in your hand.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Do you think the sort of game within the game of coaches is different?

[LeBron James]

Meaning, like.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

But I don't. Bob Myers maybe didn't originate this, but I know that he said it at some point there are 82 game players and then there's 16 game players. Right. Do you think that in some ways there are regular season, like good regular season coaches versus good playoff coaches? Like, how much does coaching matter in the NBA in the playoffs?

[LeBron James]

It matters a lot. Preparation, prep. How much prep are you getting going into a series to win? You get out there and you're kind of ready for, you know, everything that's gonna be thrown at you. And obviously everybody makes adjustments. And then you got the great players that don't matter what type of fucking game plan you got on them. They're gonna exploit it no matter what. But as much as you can be prepared going out for a series and you know, you know, I change this, you know that game one is kind of like the filler game, you know, you almost like tell your players, just go out, just fucking play. Like, just go out and play game one. Don't think too much. Because if you start thinking too much now, you can't even just like be. You can't even just be a player no more because now you're just trying to think the game. But me personally, I want overload.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

You want overload?

[LeBron James]

I want overload. I want all the information. Everything, Everybody, every individual, every pros and cons. And I don't do that throughout the 82 game regular season. I'm not. I don't have the time to do that. I don't have the time.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

The, the league has changed a lot with practice time. Shoot around time, amount of time you spend in the film room.

[Unknown Speaker]

It just has.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, it has.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And you know, I was, I was fortunate. I would say fortunate. Five of my first six years I played for Stan. I also played for him my, you know, my last year in New Orleans.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

When you talk about the preparation, it was interesting to me that he prepared for a regular season game the same way he prepared for a postseason game.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So we're in shoot around for an hour and a half. We got knee pads on, we're going live. He would. I remember at the end of shoot arounds, he'd be like, all right, these guys haven't run this play in five games. This is an ato, but they haven't run it in five games. But just I want to be prepared for it. Let's go through it. You guys didn't do it.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Let's go through it again.

[LeBron James]

That's the Rall's tree.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

100%.

[LeBron James]

That's the Rouse Tree. Supposed the same way.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So when we got. But my point is, when we got to the playoffs, it didn't feel any different.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Because you were prepping for a playoff.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure. That's just supposed the same way. That's the Rouse tree. You know, you come from that Pat Riley tree. That's just. You prepare every day like it's your last. For sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

You mentioned the word exploitation again. How much mental, how much energy in a playoff series, playoff game are you spending on exploitation? How to exploit the other team, you personally.

[LeBron James]

48 minutes.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

And if we need 53 or 58, the whole game. How can you. Because I'm trying to generate easy buckets. Easy buckets. And I want to get my guys in a rhythm. And how can we exploit the matchups and the players that's on the floor. Sometimes I get a little disrespectful to it as well. Certain guys come on the floor. I'll say it right on the free throw line. While we shooting a free throw. They're shooting a free throw. Yo, we putting him into action. Thumb down him. Yeah. I want him to know that like, you know, we going at him in the postseason.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I'm glad I never played against you in the postseason. Well, I guess I did. Nine minutes.

[LeBron James]

Nine minutes of game two. It'll last 2009.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I think the other thing for me in playing and in watching is can you create good offense down the stretch? That's true, of course, in any basketball game. I think it's harder and harder the further you go in the playoffs.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, it is. I mean, obviously the iq, which I always come to, the IQ from the coaches to the players heighten and get better as you go on and on and on and on. And once the players get better too, as well, I feel like being able to execute. Certain guys are able to execute better than others and teams or Whatever the case may be, because nothing bothers them in the pressure moments, sometimes the lights are too bright for certain individuals.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I would say this, though. Here's the thing. That's a fair point. Not disagreeing. Not disagreeing. For my career, I think I shot 41% in the regular season from three for my career. In the playoffs, I think I shot over 37%.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, but that's not because of the pressure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

No, no, no. But hold on. Oftentimes our opinion on things are shaped by our own experience. Is that fair?

[LeBron James]

That's fair.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

You and I have had different experiences, basketball players.

[LeBron James]

Let me hear your experience.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So later on in my career, once, pretty much once I got to LA and was like a starter and third or fourth option on offense, you get to the playoffs, they treat you like a first option.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Do you know what I mean by that? They've come up with a very specific game plan. The same team for game one, game two, Game three, through game seven.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

They've come up with a specific game plan for you. So, Utah Jazz 2017, we are going to top lock him as soon as he crosses half court. I mean, Doc Rivers said to me after game one, he said, this is not your series. I need you to stand in the corner. Right. A terrible series is the worst series in my. In my, like, playing career when I was like, actually a player. Not. Not like a bench guy, but, like, it was the worst series of my career. But he was like, you got to go stand on the court. They're literally. We're playing four on four without you, like, all right. Right. The closeouts. So if I do create separation or if you do make a mistake in the kick, the closeouts are different in the playoffs.

[LeBron James]

Yes.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So my catch and shoot time to get a clean release is different. I'm not making excuses. I'm just telling you it is the truth, what I experienced.

[LeBron James]

So do you think because of that.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

By the way, 37% is not horrible?

[LeBron James]

No. Hell no.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

It's not good. It's not good for me.

[LeBron James]

I mean, for you, it's not terrible. It's terrible. It's terrible for you. Yeah, it's terrible. For you, it's terrible. I mean, for the average guy, I'm embarrassed. They will fucking. I'm embarrassed they might get a max contract over that. But for you, you should. Yeah, but that's why I believe certain guys wants the postseason start. Because they've been guarded a certain way for, what, September to mid April. A certain way. You know, you have certain Games that. That gets, you know, circled on the calendar that certain coaches get up for, certain players get up for. But at the end of the day, you've been guarded a certain way. And then in the postseason, like you said, the closeouts are different. The preparation is different. Guys. Guys are. They're not allowing you to do what you do best. Because at the end of the day, if certain guys get off on a team, you're definitely going to lose. If I'm playing the Clippers, you got. Okay. You got to deal with Blake and his points in the paint and his roles and his pocket passes from cp. You got to deal with cp. You got to deal with Jamal coming off the bench and doing what he does off the bench. If we allow JJ to get five or six threes, the series is over. If you shoot, if you're getting five or not, fuck making five or six threes. If JJ's shooting five or six threes, we're gonna lose.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah, the spurs series in 15. I remember, dude, we come out game one. We're in LA. We've got the three seed. They got the 60, even though we had the same amount of wins. And Kawhi's guarding me, and I'm like.

[LeBron James]

You're like, what did I.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

What did I do to deserve this?

[LeBron James]

Why are you guarding me?

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And for. I don't remember, maybe the first four or five games of the season, he started on me. Danny started on cp. Then they switched that in game six. I think it was game. I know Game seven, Danny was on me. And at the end of the series, we win. And like, I didn't have a great series, but I had big moments in the series, you know? And at the end of the series, Chip England came up to me, and he was like, man, our entire thing was like, we gotta. We can't allow you to get off.

[LeBron James]

See, I wasn't even part of that.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

We threw the kitchen sink to you.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, I wasn't even part of that. I've seen Pop in the postseason. I've played against him multiple times in finals appearances. There was one time where he caught a timeout with like, 11 minutes and 52 seconds left in the first quarter. Cause a guy on our team got off a three. Yeah, I don't even know if they made the damn three. But he called a timeout right away, got on Danny Green. What the fuck? Danny Green got on his ass, took him out, brought him back in. But obviously they had something in place, and then they executed. Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Two last things. Points. I want to make on the playoff or one last point, and then I want to actually get your perspective on something. I think what's different about the playoffs? So to your point about still winning a game, but maybe an adjustment's made late in the game and you say we won the game, but they may have figured something out. Right. I think what's different is if you make that adjustment with six minutes to go in the third quarter and you come back, still lose the game, the next night you might be playing Memphis. The next night you might be playing Oklahoma City. The next night you might be playing Portland.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So you might have to wait two months, Right. In the playoffs, you make an adjustment, you feel like you can exploit something. It's the same damn team.

[LeBron James]

Same damn team the next night or day. Late, same day. Yep, you figured it out.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And so that's where you see. See, like Dallas in 11. You remember J.J. beret against the Lakers? It's like, oh, J.J. and Dirk can pick and roll. They can't stop that. We're just going to exploit that over and over. What's your perspective on luck in the playoffs?

[LeBron James]

Need it.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Give me an example.

[LeBron James]

The biggest example of, like, luck in the pulses.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

In your experience?

[LeBron James]

Oh, in my experience, uh, trying to think of my championship runs. I mean, I was on the team. That's the luck, right? I can't think off the top of my head.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

But.

[LeBron James]

No, no, seriously, like, you know, you could be a great team, but you need a little luck. You need the ball to bounce your way. Sometimes, you know, you need, you know, a certain player on the opposing team get in foul trouble, you know, it's just. I don't know. I mean, off the top of my head, I started to think of, like, unfortunately, what happened with Kawhi, with the Zaza Petulia thing, you know, the spurs was. They were good. They were fucking good. And they were handling the shit out of Golden State. Up until that point, I think they were maybe up. I can't. I don't know, off the top of my head. We can always look it up, obviously, but they were up 17, you know, and they were very fucking good. And, you know, you get kawhi go down with the ankle and it's like, oh, shit. The whole thing changes, you know, Like, I don't know, off the top of my head, as far as, you know, my experience. But luck, I want to say, is always unique. Yes, you need it. You need some luck for sure. You definitely do.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I think it goes back to where we kind of started this, with the One play where a lucky bounce, an unlucky bounce, a call, a guy reacting to something. 2016.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

An injury. Right. A play. A moment.

[LeBron James]

A moment, yeah, for sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And it's not, I think luck maybe is the wrong word. It's not like an inflection point almost of. Like someone gets hurt that can change.

[LeBron James]

The trajectory to the trajectory of the. Of what's to come. I mean, you look at. What is it? The 01 Lakers Kings. I think that was game five or six, maybe. And they get the tip out to big shot Bob. Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Like, I think Kobe missed a floater over Doug Christie, I think.

[LeBron James]

And then Shaq gets. And it gets a tip out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, a lotta. Yeah, exactly.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Tipped it out right to big. Yeah. Right to Robert Horry.

[LeBron James]

Like, if you clean glass on that, that's the game. Yeah. And it. Like, how many times a ball gets batted right into one of the biggest clutch players in NBA history at the top of the key. And he just. At the end of the game, bang, bang. That's some luck.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

There's some luck to that.

[LeBron James]

There's some luck to that.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Complete transparency. We actually got up and sat back down because we had to say this game six. I don't know how I forgot Ray Allen's three.

[LeBron James]

Yeah. I don't.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

The sequence of events here.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

That led up to that.

[LeBron James]

Yep. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is that, you know, Pop had took Timmy D out.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

You know, and I think because, you know, they probably was looking to switch everything because we needed threes. We needed threes. So a lot. Everything was going to be on the perimeter. I had literally just made 13 before that, and we ran one of our plays that we've been practicing all year where I would, you know, come and set the pick. Like, we just kind of like we drew up on a whiteboard. I would flare over the top and then come back, and I missed that one. And who knows if Timmy D's on the floor. Does he clean glass? He's cleaned glass a lot in his career, but Bosh is able to, you know, get the rebound over Manu. Manu kind of falls down a little bit. He's kind of on the back. He cleans glass, and then Ray backpedals, doesn't even look at the line. What if he steps on the line backpedaling? What if he steps on the baseline?

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

What if his toes on the line.

[LeBron James]

With his toes on the line. There's a lot of preparation because I watch Ray do that every Day prep like that. But I believe there's some luck to that, too.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

The thing I always think about with that play, and this is going to sound weird, and it's going to make me look bad, it will, but I will take it. Manu was such a fucking psychotic competitor. I think about him going for that rebound. If I was in that situation and saw the ball bounce. And this is not revisionist history. I'm just being honest with you. And I'm guarding Ray Allen. I'm staying at home. But Manu is manufacturing.

[LeBron James]

He wants that rebound.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

He want. He wanted to tip it out. He wanted to close the game out, win a championship. Like, I'm. This is. I'm not knocking what he did.

[LeBron James]

No, no. For sure. Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And had he not fallen, it wouldn't even have mattered, right? But he's such a competitor. He went for it and he fell. He fell, and that was all that Ray needed.

[LeBron James]

That's all he needed. Wow.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I'm soft.

[LeBron James]

Thanks. Manufacturer.

[JJ Redick]

I get to sit behind the wine.

[LeBron James]

Nah, we're gonna move it. We're gonna move it over here.

[JJ Redick]

That's a big sacrifice.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Do you wanna handle this?

[LeBron James]

I've never met this guy in my life, so I don't even first guess on our show. First guess. I don't even know. No, this is my guy. Fucking coach Keith Danbrodt, man. My high school coach really taught me a lot about how to prep for the game, how to play the game and shit. I wouldn't be here in this seat right now, where I am in my career without him. That's for damn sure. That's for damn sure. He will say that. He's gonna say the same thing about vice versa. No, but, like, he literally, like, taught me how to take the game serious. Like, seriously, like, every day at practice, how to prep, how to prepare. Like, you know, me and Maverick always talk about, like, our games were so easy because we practiced so fucking hard. He was like, this is gonna be the hardest thing y'all do on this practice court. When we get into games, it's gonna be easy. And as a player, you don't really believe that shit. When you're 14, 15 years old, you're like, I'm fucking dying out here, man. What are you talking about? The games are gonna be easier. Like, the competition, he's got all these. And he was absolutely right. So I learned how to. What I learned from him was how to really prepare for the games before the games ever, ever took place.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

What was LeBron like when you coached him. You had him freshman and sophomore year.

[JJ Redick]

I had him as freshman, sophomore. I met him, I think when he was about 13 and a half, maybe. Yeah, he was one of the easiest guys I've ever coached. And so I was a college coach prior to coaching him. And once I saw him, I called some of my friends and I said, you know, I got a guy that I think's one of the best I've seen. And they all kind of laughed at me. And they say, oh, you sound like a high school coach now. You know how the high school coach always hypes guys up sometimes, but just easy guy, great teammate, cared about, you know, playing as a team, loved his teammates, played hard. But the biggest thing that jumps out at you is just his innate ability and his ability to learn.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Interesting. You used the word innate in the first episode. I thought you were full of shit. I'm glad somebody co signed it.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

When you teach basketball, you just retired. Congratulations.

[LeBron James]

Absolutely. Congrats on that.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Hell of a career. You got a winning attorney.

[LeBron James]

Yes, sir.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

When you teach basketball, is there a difference in approach between teaching high school kids or college kids?

[JJ Redick]

That's a great question. So I had always been a college coach. So when I had that group, I treated them like college players, and they actually had the brains of above that. And then once I knew LeBron was going to be a pro because I had had three NBA guys before him, then I started to treat him like he had a guard, Kobe and four years. So that's really how I treated him. I treated him like a pro.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

That's interesting. Did you feel that? Did you not know any different?

[LeBron James]

No, no, no, I didn't know. No difference. I mean, I'm just going out there and just like, I'm gonna just bust my ass. And this is the guy that's. He's the. He's the head coach. So whatever he says, let's do it, like. And like, we all came together. Like, me and my high school boys, you know, we all came to St. BE for a reason. And. And we wanted to win. We wanted to win a state championship. We wanted to win. You know, Maverick was doing, you know, recruiting before he was supposed to be doing it and shit. Recruited me to st. V, But. But, yeah, I just wanted to win. So, like, you know, there was times where you be pissed off at him because you're not. You're not used to it. You're not used to, you know, this type of, you know, this type of hard work is something different. You know, I remember I was telling you in episode one how. How different it is going from, you know, just from grade school to middle school. You know, the intimidation factor of even just walking down the hallways and then going from middle school to high school is even more intimidating now. You like being around kids with, like, beards and, like, people are driving to school like, I'm a freshman in high school. I don't. I'm riding my bike or one of the coaches picked me up, whatever the case may be. So, you know, it was super duper different in a sense of anything else. I had been up until that point by playing a game of basketball.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

How long did you coach total between high school and college?

[JJ Redick]

Well, I had a little sabbatical, so let me think about that. So I was seven years at Duquesne, 13 at Akron as a head coach, and then three other years as an assistant. So close to 35 years.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

How do you coach a player that can't remember after timeout plays? Coming out of a timeout. Coming out of a timeout, you draw up a play, and a player habitually forgets what he's supposed to do as a coach, how do you coach that player?

[JJ Redick]

That's funny, because we were just talking about that last night.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I may have got some intel on that.

[JJ Redick]

So really what you do is you have an assistant coach that is assigned to that guy, and after you draw up the play, he draws it, redraws it up, and then tells them again about it. Because there's nothing more frustrating as a coach and even as a player than somebody butchering up plays when they're. When you draw it up for them.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

LeBron knows this. I coach my son's travel team. It's a fourth grade travel team, nine and ten year olds, and there's not a ton of, like, opportunities for ATL call time. I'll drop the first play. If we have the ball at halftime, I'll drop it up. I think each team is allowed, like, three timeouts. And, you know, if there's opportunities, I'll draw it up. We have the ball. Cause a lot of times if we score on another team, they call a timeout.

[LeBron James]

You don't have time.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Chaos is gonna ensue at the change of possession, right? So it's just like. But it's interesting because I have to deal with that, right? And the one thing I've learned this season, this is my second year doing it, is I tell the kids, not every kid, but I tell the kids that need to hear this. Just watch what you're supposed to do. There's a lot of stuff happening. Just watch what you're supposed to do.

[JJ Redick]

That's good point. It's really good.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I think the hardest thing, and this is where I'm curious for both of you, coaching it and having coaches do this. ATOs are such a very specific thing. And a big part of running an ATO correctly is timing. And so practicing ATOs, like, did you practice your ATOs? Did you have a list of certain plays that were ATOs that were outside of your normal sets or concepts? And have you had coaches that actually practiced ATOs?

[JJ Redick]

So I know a lot of coaches do that, but I'm kind of a coach that plays off the feel of the game. So I'll usually run one of the sets that I think's gonna go at that particular time. That way you're not as limited as to what you can run at a certain time. But obviously we've practiced all of those, and we probably spent more time this year, for instance, just on five, on zero, just making sure our guys knew every little aspect of it. And you make a great point, you can run a great set, but if you don't execute the screen or the cut or understand how to bump a screen or go tight off of a screen, none of it really matters.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think what you were saying, Jay, I think there's a. Practicing some ATOs is very beneficial to certain teams. But also, as a player, sometimes when a coach comes to the timeout and draws something that you haven't seen before, you kind of get like, oh, shit, I ain't seen this one before. Yeah, like, I'm gonna execute this one to a T, because if it works now, we might can bring this back again. Like, I wanna, like, you know, as a player, you feel good about that? Like, oh, I didn't know you had that one in your bag, coach. So, like, yeah, you know, you have certain things that, you know, you have a fourth quarter package, you know, you have a, you know, ato, you have, you know, sobs bobs that you don't, you know, want to run throughout the course of the game. So, because if it's a closed game, you want to try to catch the defense, you know, sleeping or catch them off guard or whatever the case may be. But in the conversation that we're having throughout the course of a game, you want to kind of have things that's in place that you've kind of practiced just so guys have some type of mental knowledge of, okay, this is what we worked on Yesterday or this is what we worked on in shoot around. But it doesn't always happen like that. Cause, you know, coaches and players, like we want to. You want to do shit that you want to be able to make endgame adjustments that maybe you didn't have an opportunity to prepare for that earlier that morning, or maybe it is a back to back and you didn't really have shoot around. You didn't have an opportunity to, you know, really put in, you know, all the stuff that you may have wanted to put in if you had practiced. So I think it's all situational.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah. The reason I bring up the timing thing is because there's certain parts of after timeout plays, very important when you cut.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

When you set the screen.

[LeBron James]

Absolutely.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Like a big part of ATOs is misdirection.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Right. And so when that misdirection is occurring, that's important.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, for sure.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

The other. The other reason I ask is because, you know, Doc was great with this and Brett Brown was great with this, is end of game, need plays. So we had. Need two plays, need two, need threes, need three plays. And we would have a package. And by the way, that package would change throughout the season. So if we ran a play a couple times in a need three situation.

[LeBron James]

And it didn't work or whatever.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Yeah. Or even if it did, we'd have to disguise it and then we'd have to practice that. Right.

[JJ Redick]

And you mentioned something really good. I think, you know, obviously we can't advance the ball in college.

[LeBron James]

Yes.

[JJ Redick]

So I do think some of your side outs can be plays that you run from a normal set so that guys can actually do the same thing. And then the ability to save plays for late in the game, too, like, I always try to save three or four, that I like to run late, that I haven't run the whole game. Or like you said, maybe put them in a closet for two or three weeks and then bring them back two or three weeks later. I like to do that as well.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Based on the guys that you have coached throughout your career, what are the skills that translate and transfer from high school to college, college to the NBA?

[JJ Redick]

Well, I think, you know, there's a lot of guys that have talent, but there's a lot of guys that don't have a good enough brain to play in the NBA. You know, you have to understand the game. You have to understand, you know, what it takes to make the league. For instance, we had the Thomas Twins, who, who LeBron knows, that played for us at Eastern Michigan, one of nine Twins that played in the NBA free agent guys. Charles never averaged more than 11 points a game in college, but he had a skill set good enough to be able to play defense, be able to handle the ball enough and shoot the three ball enough to play in the league. And I think a lot of guys think they have to score to play in the league, but you have to be able to guard to play in the league. You have to be able to play a role. You have to be a good role player because there's not many guys like LeBron. Most of the guys in the NBA, and you guys know way more than me, are role players. So you have to be really good at something.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Thanks.

[JJ Redick]

I think you were a little more of that role player.

[LeBron James]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You got a clip that I sent your ass the other day? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I actually, I would argue everybody's a role player.

[JJ Redick]

That's true.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

His role is just to be the guy, right? Luka's role is to be the guy. That's his role. There's a difference between definition and connotation, right? The connotation of a role player. Most 19 and 20 year olds don't want to hear that, right? I'm going to be a role player.

[LeBron James]

In the league, right?

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And that to me is a struggle. And it's interesting you bring up the brain because I think part of the brain and part of. Curious to get your thoughts on this too. Part of lasting in the NBA. Skill set, talent, size, strength, all that stuff. Super important basketball intelligence. Super important. What about emotional intelligence? What about being able to be a part of a group, be a part of a team, navigate locker room situations, navigate relationships with coaches, navigate relationships in the training room. I think to some degree that's maybe not equally as important because you need all the stuff beforehand. But to last in the NBA, you have to have a level of that.

[LeBron James]

I mean, it goes back to the saying that I told you about. One of my good friends, Jimmy Iovine, always talks about, when the shit gets bigger than the cat, you get rid of the fucking cat. And what he's saying basically in basketball terms is a lot of players when they're at their peak of performance, but on the side that you're talking about, they haven't respected authority. They haven't come in and just wanted to be a part of the group, you know, but they was averaging 25, 30, or whatever the case may be, and they were the shit. When that stuff starts to dwindle and the shit is not as good as the individual anymore. They get rid of the cat. And we see it in our sport, you see it in sports in general. You know, you have to play the game to play the game as well. And at the end of the day, being a good person shouldn't have to just be dedicated to just sports. That's fucking life. Yeah. Just being a good fucking person. Hey, how you doing? Good morning. Okay. Am I having a bad day? Okay. I might be having a bad day. All right. Yo, you all right? Like, shit, like, just normal shit. Like if I'm walking to a door and a woman is beside me, no matter if she's a stranger or not, she's an older woman or a younger. Like, hold the fucking door open for her. I don't understand. Why is that such a. Like, that should be easy. That should be easy. But it's not.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Not everybody does professional sports. I had vets my rookie year that were like, dude, you're coming into the practice facility, when you walk in a room, say hi to everybody, acknowledge people. Right. I was in my shit. I wasn't playing. You know, I was upset.

[LeBron James]

You have to take that into account. No, no, no. But at the end of the day, there is.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I'm 22. Like, I was young, but like.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, I think that helps you. You last longer in a department that you want to be a part of because you just play the game a little bit and no one's telling you to be fake.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

No, no, no, no. It's not that.

[LeBron James]

It's not being fake. It's just being. Being human. Like, be a fucking human being no matter what else, whatever you do.

[JJ Redick]

That's a fine line between being in the league and not being in the league. Right. So when you go 12 to 15 or whatever. Right. The coach doesn't really want to be around somebody that's not a good person. Cause there's somebody probably just as good as you or close to as good as you, that you can play with, that probably aren't gonna play anyway, right at that point.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

There's a lot of guys I know that I'm friends with that had 9 or 10 year careers that never played more than 10, 11 minutes in a game. Never were really an 82 game regular rotation player, but they were great fucking dudes.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And they lasted nine or 10 years and maximized their career because of this very thing we're talking about.

[LeBron James]

And if you get that 10th year, you get that pension.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

You get that pension, you get that health care. That health care, you get that Lifetime. The influence of the game in the NBA, European basketball, on the college game. We maybe had talked about this and we haven't really like dove into this. It feels like at times when I watch college, there's a big difference between coaches who have embraced what I would call modern basketball concepts versus what I would call antiquated basketball concepts. Where is college basketball right now with being influenced by either the NBA or Euroleague or, you know, world FIBA competitions just in terms of X and O strategy?

[JJ Redick]

So clearly in my mind, the NBA has been influenced by the European basketball. And I feel like college basketball is two to three years behind the NBA. And the reason I say that is, for instance, when people started ice in the ball screens, that took two years before it hit college basketball. And then everybody, to offset the ice, they started going to the elbow. Handoffs, right, the dribble handoffs. And that took another two years before it hit college basketball. So the last thing probably that occurs is the ISOs and finding the elephant in the room, I call it. You know, the guy that can't really target hunting, like LeBron was talking about pointing it, we're going at him. That's probably the last thing. And the one thing that's different is there's not as many great players in college basketball as there is in the NBA. So it's never going to look exactly the same. But I think the NBA has clearly been ahead of college basketball and will remain to be the driving force of college basketball. It takes coaches a long time to adjust. Like probably when you played some, there was still some motion offense, right? You don't see hardly any of that anymore. Like we used to cover, like down screens, back screens, low crosses. Now. Now what we do is we cover ball screens and dribble handoffs and split screens, you know, like you were talking about. That's all we cover.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

North Carolina State was the only team in my four years in college.

[Unknown Speaker]

And.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And that was later on after Herb Sendak had left, I believe that iced a pick and roll. Boston College still ran flex when they joined the acc. Your boy duds. Your boy duds. They literally just ran the flex offense.

[JJ Redick]

Al Skinner, right.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

And that's all they ran. So, yeah, I get the difference between, or I should say being behind on things. The one thing I have noticed, particularly this spring in March Madness, is there are some really good coaches that are being creative with non shooting players, non spacing players. So the difference, of course, between the NBA and FIBA in college is that you can be in the paint, right? And there are Certain players, not every. It's not like the NBA. The NBA is the best of the best. Great college team might have two or three NBA guys. Of those two or three guys, maybe one guy has a 10 year career. Right. That's just, that's just the reality. So there's going to be players on the floor that you don't have to guard. And UConn does this with Danny Hurley. I saw the Baylor women's team do this at the end of a game on a Need 3 situation is you use the non shooter in the corner. You put the shooter either on the block or on the same side. Wing skip pass, either uphill DHO or a DHO to the person on the block. Baylor used it to get a game tying three to send it into overtime.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, because then his man can't really help on those hands so far away. You have to. I think that's one thing and I think the other thing is using your shooters as screeners more. You know, both on the ball and off the ball. Back screen, you know, into a down screen or back screen into a ball screen. Just trying to get your shooter involved. But your idea is a really good one because they're always late. You were talking about being late to the handoff and the ball screen. The overreaction. That's a Good point.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

When UConn runs that play with their big guy, there's constant overreaction. They get slips, they get threes.

[LeBron James]

I mean you saw it last year. I mean obviously they're doing it again this year. But Jordan Hawkins got so much action. Yeah. Last year over that because they had a non shooting big out there. Obviously Jordan Hawkins is being body to body. But x4, x5, that's guarding a non shooter. He can't get back up the floor.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I just want to draw one play. I just want to draw one play.

[JJ Redick]

They're not used to being out there either.

[LeBron James]

Right.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I'm sorry, I got to draw. It's like a fish out the water because I'm like. Especially in college where these people guarding non shooters are literally standing.

[LeBron James]

Did you see? I mean I saw. Did you see? I hate to bring it up but Illinois went 55 real minutes without scoring a point versus UConn.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

UVA had 14 in the first half and went like, I don't know, close to an 43 minutes without scoring an actual point.

[LeBron James]

It was insane. Oh, cheers coach. Man.

[JJ Redick]

Cheers. Cheers.

[LeBron James]

Cheers man.

[JJ Redick]

Good stuff.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

So like if a team is top locking a shooter over here, let's say this is fluff.

[LeBron James]

Yep.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

This is fluff. This is like the four man going to screen. You've got your five over here. This guy's pulled all the way. This is where the ball is, right.

[LeBron James]

This is college.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

This is what I'm talking about. You set this up with the away screen. This defender jumps into a top block. This guy is just sitting in the paint. You skip past it to the corner. Here's the uphill dhl. Now, this guy's going to be late. This guy's out of position because he thinks this is coming. There are ways to get around the spacing issues.

[LeBron James]

And the same thing that he was saying. If I'm being top blocked, right? And the big comes sets to pick and roll or sets the Y pin. If I'm the guy that's being top, like I'm the shooter, I can go underneath, snake it, and set the ball screen on the ball handler. Now my guy's top lock. He can't switch. He can't help. Now the ball handler comes off naked.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah.

[LeBron James]

Because my guy's only worried about me coming off to get a shot.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

I used to do that with Joel.

[LeBron James]

Yeah.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Remember our elbow, too, actually?

[LeBron James]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Left elbow. I'm in left corner. And a lot of teams would top lock it, and I would literally just walk my guy up into Joel's man.

[LeBron James]

You screamed two guys at once.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Joel would spin, he'd get a lamp.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, you screen two guys at once. Absolutely.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

That's great stuff. Coach, before we let you go, and thanks for being our first guest. Thanks for having me. I got a question for you, and I'll ask LeBron this. In two or seven years, we're not really sure. What are you going to miss the most about the game of basketball and about being around it every day?

[JJ Redick]

I just think the effect you have on people, you know, I think one of the things that I always tried to teach LeBron was, you're gonna hit some rough moments, but you gotta battle through. I think that's the biggest thing, is these young people need advice as to how to handle adversity. Because what happens a lot of times is they get bailed out of adversity. Now, nobody really teaches them what to do when they hit it, because we've all been there, right? We've all been in some tough situations. Just when you think things are going great, something happens. And if you don't know how to handle it, it's really difficult.

[LeBron James]

Yeah, that's great. All right.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Cheers, guys. Cheers, coach. Appreciate it.

[JJ Redick]

Thank you.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Appreciate you.

[LeBron James]

Cheers.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

We're good.

[JJ Redick]

He's high because he's so high.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Single sided.

[LeBron James]

Single sided. High.

[JJ Redick]

He's so high.

[LeBron James]

And you put the one here because if the one or the two decides to help on a lob, they're too small.

[Coach Keith Dambrot]

Hey guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. Thank you.