The Space, The Icons and The Block

Summary

Mind the Game Podcast: Episode Summary Title: The Space, The Icons and The Block
Release Date: April 10, 2024
Hosts: LeBron James and JJ Redick
Presented by: UNINTERRUPTED and Wondery

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Mind the Game, hosts LeBron James and JJ Redick delve deep into the intricate aspects of basketball that elevate the game from mere competition to an art form. Titled "The Space, The Icons and The Block," this episode explores the strategic use of space in the NBA, celebrates the icons of women's college basketball, and dissects one of the most memorable defensive plays in NBA history. Through insightful discussions and expert analysis, LeBron and JJ shed light on the X’s and O’s that define greatness on the court.

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1. Player Insights and Emerging Talent

TJ McConnell and Peyton Pritchard

The episode kicks off with JJ Redick highlighting his admiration for T.J. McConnell, drawing parallels to Draymond Green but positioned as a guard. JJ remarks at [00:30],

“My favorite players in the NBA right now is T.J. McConnell. All right, T.J. mcConnell is like Draymond but a guard.”

Peyton Pritchard is also praised for his ability to influence the flow of the game similarly to McConnell and Smith, showcasing the impact of versatile guards in modern basketball.

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2. Advanced Statistics: Screen Assists and Hockey Assists

Understanding Screen Assists

JJ Redick introduces the concept of screen assists, explaining how they are integral yet underappreciated in traditional box scores. At [01:13],

“A screen assist is simply acknowledging and documenting that a player has set a screen for another player who then scores.”

He cites Rudy Gobert as a premier example, leading the NBA in screen assists, emphasizing the need to include such statistics in official box scores to better capture a player's contribution.

Hockey Assists Explained

Drawing a parallel to hockey, JJ elucidates hockey assists, where a pass leads to another pass resulting in a score. This multi-layered assist highlights the collaborative nature of basketball plays, especially in high pick-and-roll scenarios.

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3. Offensive Strategies: Court Mapping and the Gortat Screen

Court Mapping with Nikola Jokic

JJ Redick delves into court mapping, a strategic approach where players like Nikola Jokic exhibit exceptional spatial awareness and anticipation. At [01:13], he explains,

“Court mapping is simply knowing where everyone is on the court and the tendencies of those players based upon NBA concepts.”

Examples include Jokic’s ability to read defenses, predict movements, and make precise passes that disrupt opponents’ strategies.

The Gortat Screen

Named after Marcin Gortat, this advanced screening technique involves intricate movements and multiple screens to create advantageous scoring opportunities. JJ describes at **[26:21]*,

“The Gortat screen is the most unstoppable play. If you can time it right, it can't be stopped.”

He recounts personal experiences implementing this strategy, highlighting its effectiveness in high-stakes games.

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4. The Rise of Women's College Basketball Icons

Surge in Popularity and Iconography

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the burgeoning popularity of women's college basketball. JJ Redick and Guest Speaker discuss factors contributing to this rise, including the stability provided by players staying multiple years due to the transfer portal's impact on men's basketball. At [09:44], JJ states,

“The women's game right now, particularly in college, has more icons.”

Notable Players and Legacies

The conversation highlights legends like Candace Parker, Maya Moore, Brittney Griner, and current stars such as Caitlin Clark and Aaliyah Boston. These athletes are celebrated not only for their on-court prowess but also for building lasting legacies and strong connections with fans.

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5. Defensive Tactics and Rotations

Blitzing and Screen Assists

JJ Redick and Guest Speaker analyze defensive strategies like blitzing the pick-and-roll, emphasizing the delicate balance between disrupting offensive plays and maintaining defensive rotations. At [20:03], JJ asserts,

“Because his impact don't always show up in a box score…”

They discuss how advanced metrics like screen assists can better reflect a defender’s effectiveness, using examples from recent games to illustrate successful and failed defensive attempts.

Managing Rotations

The hosts explore the challenges of defensive rotations, especially against teams with versatile scorers like Steph Curry. They underscore the importance of cognitive skills such as pattern recognition and anticipation in executing effective defense without over-relying on physical attributes.

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6. Iconic Defensive Plays: Chase-Down Block in Game Seven

Anatomy of a Memorable Block

The episode recounts a pivotal moment from Game Seven of 2016, where JJ Redick executed a crucial chase-down block. At [43:38], he narrates,

“If I'm correct with the trajectory of the ball, I got to get my ass back because Kyrie's shooting the ball.”

The detailed breakdown illustrates the split-second decisions and relentless pursuit required to make such a play, emphasizing its significance in the game's outcome.

Impact and Recognition

While the block was a defining moment, JJ reflects on the lack of mainstream recognition compared to highlights involving scorers. This segues into a broader discussion on the need for comprehensive statistics that honor defensive contributions.

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7. The Cognitive Side of Basketball Athleticism

Mental Attributes in Play

The conversation shifts to the cognitive aspects of basketball, including pattern recognition, spatial awareness, and anticipation. Guest Speaker emphasizes at [31:24],

“The map is 100% downloaded and they've mapped the whole court. Their pattern recognition is a 10 out of 10.”

These mental skills are portrayed as game-changers, enabling players to anticipate opponents' moves and execute strategies with precision.

Application in Game Scenarios

Using examples from Nikola Jokic and strategic plays, the hosts demonstrate how cognitive abilities translate into effective on-court decisions, enhancing both offensive and defensive performances.

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Notable Quotes with Attribution

• JJ Redick at [00:30]:
  “My favorite players in the NBA right now is T.J. McConnell. All right, T.J. mcConnell is like Draymond but a guard.”

• Guest Speaker at [09:45]:
  “I keep seeing videos of people saying I can name five women's basketball players in college, but not men. That's so funny and such a crazy shift.”

• JJ Redick at [19:56]:
  “We need screen assist, for sure. Like, can we capture how good Rudy Gobert is if we had screen assists and a box score?”

• Guest Speaker at [26:21]:
  “The Gortat screen is the most unstoppable play. If you can time it right, it can't be stopped.”

• JJ Redick at [36:09]:
  “I hate it when you don't have the personnel to match it.”

• Guest Speaker at [31:24]:
  “The map is 100% downloaded and they've mapped the whole court. Their pattern recognition is a 10 out of 10.”

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Conclusion

In "The Space, The Icons and The Block," LeBron James and JJ Redick provide listeners with an in-depth exploration of the strategic elements that make basketball a dynamic and evolving sport. From advanced statistical insights and offensive strategies to celebrating the rise of women's college basketball and dissecting iconic defensive plays, this episode offers a rich tapestry of discussions that enhance the understanding and appreciation of the game. As the hosts emphasize, the continuous evolution of basketball tactics and the emergence of new icons ensure that the sport remains both intellectually stimulating and passionately engaging for fans worldwide.

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Thank you for listening to Mind the Game.
If you enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button and stay tuned for more insightful discussions.

Transcript

[LeBron James]

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[JJ Redick]

My favorite players in the NBA right now is T.J. mcConnell. All right, T.J. mcConnell is like. He's like Draymond but a guard. Yeah, he's like Draymond as a. As a point guard. Yeah, he is talking about TJ McConnell, one of my favorite players. TJ.

[Guest Speaker]

TJ he's like a. There's certain guys, they check into the game and it changes the flow of the game. Peyton Pritchard's like that. Is. Smith was like that.

[JJ Redick]

Smith was like that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

[Guest Speaker]

Welcome to episode four of Mind the Game podcast with LeBron James and me, JJ Redick. Presented by UNINTERRUPTED and and 342 Productions. This discussion is centered around space in the NBA and how to exploit that space. Icons in women's college basketball and of course, one of the most famous defensive plays in NBA history, told through the mind, the eyes, and the words of LeBron James. Just a few things that we cover conceptually in this episode. I want to go through these right now just to give you guys a little precursor to the concepts that we talk about. One of the things I talk about in this episode is the screen assist. Assists are tracked and have been tracked for decades in the NBA. An assist is when a player passes the ball to another player and that player scores. A screen assist is simply acknowledging and documenting that a player has set a screen for another player who then scores. So it's Kevin Garnett with a wide pin down screen for Ray Allen who comes off that screen and hits a jumper. It's Derek Lively setting a high pick and roll screen for Luka Doncic, who then makes a three pointer. A screen assist is just an opportunity to get your teammate open who then scores. One of the best screen assisters in the entire NBA is Rudy Gobert, and he has been for a number of years. He actually leads the NBA in screen assist. This is a stat that is tracked through advanced stats. However, I think this should be a box score stat and I explain why in this episode. The other type of assist we talk about in this episode is the hockey assist. So in hockey, if a player passes the puck to another player, who then passes the puck to a goal scorer and the scorer scores the goal, he gets an assist. A hockey assist is simply the pass that leads to a pass that leads to a score. For example, in high pick and roll, if the ball handler comes off and makes a pass to the big man on the short roll, which we covered in episode three, and the short roller passes to the wing and the wing guy swings to the corner for an open 3, then the big man in the short roll who made the first pass. That's a hockey assist. So the Gortat screen. This is named after one of my former teammates, Martian Gortat, who popularized this type of screen and this concept in the modern NBA. So if we talk about a spread pick and roll right here, and you have five offensive players and five defensive players in today's NBA, the X5, the five guarding the five men on the offense. He's oftentimes in drop coverage. Drop coverage is simply the big man in a pick and roll dropping into the paint. He's not at the level. The level of the screen is at the level of the offensive player setting the screen. Drop coverage is simply your back off of the level. So a gore tat screen is when the offensive player comes around the pick and roll. The defensive player goes over the top of the pick and roll. And at this point the offensive player has an advantage and as LeBron calls it, a hostage dribble or putting a player in jail. He keeps the defender on his back. Instead of rolling to the rim. This screener rolls into another screen on the drop coverage big, which allows the ball handler to get all the way to the basket. That is something that Marcian Gortat ran a ton with John Wall. Something I first really noticed when I went to Philadelphia and I played against the Boston Celtics a bunch. Daniel Tice, Al Horford, excellent Gortat screeners. That is the Gortat screen. Another concept we talk about specifically as it relates to Nikola Jokic is court mapping. Court mapping is simply knowing where everyone is on the court and the tendencies of those players based upon NBA concepts. So here's an example. Let's say this is Nikola Jokic with the basketball and this is two Nuggets players going into a high split. Again, a split is just when two off ball players go to screen for each other. Let's say that this is Reggie Jackson and Reggie Jackson sets a screen on Christian Brown and Christian Brown cuts to the basket. Nikola Jokic has mapped the court. He knows this help defender is not really involved in the play. He's reading what these two defenders are doing. He also knows that as this cutter cuts to the basket, chances are this help defender, because he's been taught this way, is going to help on this cut. Whether it is a scoring cut or not, he's going to help. He has awareness of this cut. So court mapping is simply, I know this guy is going to be open. I'm going to make this skip pass for a three. Peyton Watson, three. That's court mapping. It's simply knowing where everyone is on the court. Another example of that from Nikola Jokic. Nikola Jokic in a post up right here against the New York Knicks. Josh Hart right here as a help defender. Aaron Gordon in the dunker spot in this area. Josh Hart coming from the baseline side on a double. Nikola Jokic knows that Aaron Gordon is in the dunker spot. Assuming he can get inside position, he just makes an over the head pass right to Aaron Gordon for a layup. That's court mapping, spatial awareness. So a flood typically happens on a wing isolation. So let's say this is Jayson Tatum. He's got a clear side. He's the offensive player. He's the O. He's got a clear side on offense. And let's say the other Boston players are all either at the top of the key or on the weak side, which we explained in a prior episode. Flooding simply means that the low man, the man closest to the rim, floods the lane and comes across the lane that is flooding right here. So now Jayson Tatum, instead of being isolated alone against one defender, has a second defender. All the other defenders on the weak side then get in help position. But this is the guy right here who comes across the lane and floods boxes and elbows again. Sometimes the meaning of the concept is simply in the word. If you look at a court, typically the lowest hash mark is a box. This part of the court on the lane is. These are called the elbows right here. So boxes and elbows simply means that the help defense is stationed at the boxes and elbows. So think about an isolation at the top of the key. Let's say again it's Jayson Tatum. He's isolating at the top of the key against the defender. Boston is spread out five out. These defenders are at boxes and elbows. Want to thank you guys again for watching and listening to Mind the game podcast with LeBron James and JJ Redick. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button. We just recorded episodes five and six. I'm biased, of course, but I Think they're some of our best work yet. I saw something on Twitter that tickpick is reporting that they've sold six times more Final Four tickets. The women's Final Four.

[JJ Redick]

I love that.

[Guest Speaker]

In the men's Final Four. Think about earlier this year, Ryan Ruko, who I work with, of course, who's calling South Carolina. LSU had better ratings on a Thursday night versus a Miami Heat, Boston Celtics, TNT game. It feels like there's a surge in popularity right now, even more so for the men's, you know, than the men's game. The women's basketball, whether it's wnba, but particularly women's college. Why do you think that is?

[JJ Redick]

I think. I think there's. Obviously, there's a lot of factors that goes into.

[Guest Speaker]

We're theorizing here, by the way.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, we're theorizing.

[Guest Speaker]

We're just theorizing.

[JJ Redick]

But I personally think that there's two things. Obviously, the obvious one to me is the transfer portal. There's too many guys that are leaving colleges, leaving programs, and it's just hard to keep up with a lot of guys, you know, so if I'm a. If I'm a kid that goes to the, you know, if I'm a fan and my team is Connecticut or Baylor or, you know, Duke or North Carolina, and the kids are now, you know, they're leaving one year in or two years in, enter transfer portal. You know, you, like, you'll pop. You know, your fandom of that particular player on your favorite program, it automatically dwindles. It goes down. So I think that has something to do with, as far as the popularity and the excitement of why you may want to watch the women's college game more than the men's. But also think the number one thing is in women's sports compared to the men, we have the ability to go to the NBA right after our freshman year. In the women's game, you have the ability to build your legacy and build your rapport and brand with that fan base, with that community. Caitlin Clark, I mean, back in the day when it was like Diana Tarazzi and Sue Bird, Samika Hoescloth, you know, Candace Parker, you know, you're watching these girls. They're doing it. Kelsey Plum at Washington, you're watching these girls year after year after year, continue to grow. You watch any girl. I mean, there's not much going on in Connecticut besides the Huskies. So when you get a popular basketball player, which is the most popular sport in the world, I'm gonna stick by it. I know football Fans will rebuke my comment, but I believe that. But you get a woman to stay on campus three, four years, I think that has a lot to do with the popularity of their sport.

[Guest Speaker]

It gets to something Rich. Paul said to me he was talking about NBA players and the scrutiny that the great ones face now in the social media era. But he said to me, there are no more icons. And when I think about men's college basketball, there are no more icons. And I think the two reasons you mentioned one and done transfer portal are a big part of that. We'll go down the list. Since the one and done era. Listen to this shit. This is some of the names of women's college basketball players. And a lot of these players have won the Wooden Award. Candace Parker. And some of them have won it more than once. Maya Moore, Brittney Griner, Briana Stewart, Asia Wilson, Aaliyah Boston, Sabrina Unescu, Kelsey Plumb, Caitlin Clark, Andrew Reese, JuJu Watkins, who's at USC. That's just to name a few. And I feel like that, as much as I love the team aspect of basketball, period, I think the women's game right now, particularly in college, has more icons.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, I mean, when I was growing up watching college basketball, on Big Monday, you had Allen Iverson at Georgetown, you had Kerry Kittles at Villanova, you had Ray Allen at Connecticut, you had John Wallace at Syracuse. These are all on Big Mondays. You know, there's no more. You was. You spent four years at Duke. There's no more J.J. reddicks or Shane. Shane Battier came back. He came back when he was already. He's going to be a lottery. He came back for his senior year. He's like, I'm coming back. Like, those are the icons that we're talking about. Those are the college icons that you. That you watched. Yeah. You watched because you had a love for, you know, that program, but you also watched because they had certain icons or certain uniforms. Like, you know, I used to watch North Carolina back in the day. Ed Coder, he didn't sniff the NBA. He was.

[Guest Speaker]

But you knew who he was.

[JJ Redick]

I fucking loved Ed Cotter in college. I love Ed Coder, Shaman Williams, that team that they had. You know what I'm saying? Like, I love Cincinnati, you know, Logan and Reuben Patterson, you know, and Kenya Martin, all those guys. And then when Kenny Satterfield stepped in, Demar Johnson, it was like, I don't know, it kind of like, I remember as a kid watching that, like, when I was growing up, I wanted to go to Cincinnati because of the uniforms and because of how. Because of hugs. And then I got a little older, and I wanted to go to North Carolina because of the uniforms and because, you know, Ed Cota and his ability to pass the ball. Like, I was like, oh, that's insane. Like. Like.

[Guest Speaker]

You never want to go to Duke?

[JJ Redick]

No, man. No, I never wanted to go to Duke. I already told you this.

[Guest Speaker]

My. My.

[JJ Redick]

My son now. Yes, now.

[Guest Speaker]

Now that you know K. Now that.

[JJ Redick]

You know K is my guy. Yeah, My.

[Guest Speaker]

My son, sophomore year, they started recruiting me right at the end of this, the high school season. And so they. My season ends, and they say, you can come to senior night. It's Chris Carrawell's senior night. It was against Carolina. I go, this is. I mean, I'm the Duke fan. I'm a dream come true, right? So I go and had a great time. Duke wins. You know, I meet K for the first time. Spent some time with Wojo. Wojo takes me around campus or whatever. Like, a month and a half later, I'm at the first big Nike AAU tournament, which was Boo Williams. We hosted the first tournament in Virginia, and we get to the championship game, and I'm sitting with my teammates. And you know how you used to wear shorts underneath your shorts? Of course. Yeah. You wear the shorts underneath your shorts. That particular day, I had decided to wear some Carolina shorts. So all I want to do in life is go to Duke, but I like the Carolina blue color. So I'm rocking these Carolina blue shorts, and who fucking walks up, sits next to me? No, Wojo does. He's like, what the fuck are you doing, dude? I was like, there goes my chance.

[JJ Redick]

I'm trying to kill everything.

[Guest Speaker]

There goes my chance real quick. I didn't want to wrap this up, but, like, Cameron Brink, who. Star player for Stanford, she said a. She had a quote. She said, I keep seeing videos of people saying I can name five women's basketball players in college, but not men. That's so funny and such a crazy shift. I want to say, overall, the women's game, we have legends still playing and a bunch of future stars. The game is in such a good place. I want to make one last point because I always think about time and progress. Right. First time there was men's basketball in the Olympics was 1936. First time there was women's basketball was 1976. The NBA started in 1951. It was the NBL before that, in 1946, WNBA was founded. In 1996, the first women's nationally televised game was 1979. Think about that. It was the AIAW. They were going against Larry Bird and Magic, right? NCAA tournament for women didn't start until 1982. Think about the NBA, right? Still on tape delay in the 1980s. Finals games, playoff games. It's just time and progress.

[JJ Redick]

That's it.

[Guest Speaker]

It's inevitable. It's inevitable. These players are so talented. It's only gonna get better.

[JJ Redick]

It's only gonna get better.

[Guest Speaker]

So this surge we're seeing, it's the trend. It's the trend.

[JJ Redick]

It is the trend, and I'm all for it. Cause I love the sport. Men or women. I love it.

[Guest Speaker]

In talking about role and I want to be clear on this. No, I do. I want to be clear on this.

[JJ Redick]

That is our show. Our show is very clear.

[Guest Speaker]

I want to be clear on this because I feel like there are parts of basketball to casual fans and actually, you know what? Fuck that. We're all guilty of this. We are guilty of this. Where we can watch a game and say, oh, that guy was awesome. And, you know, chances are he was awesome. If we all think he was awesome, he was awesome. And there's this other part of us that's like, that guy was a bum. And there's the box score watchers there. The box score watchers. Oh, yeah, we know.

[JJ Redick]

The box score watchers.

[Guest Speaker]

And I made the point the other night on your game with the Warriors. I said, I think screen assist should be in the box score. I'm well aware that we can track screen assists. That is an official tracking stat. I want it to be a box score stat because it's like it goes back to role basketball. For some reason. We all have these, like, interchangeable roles at times. Other sports, we don't agree. So if Jason Kelce doesn't allow a sack and has a couple pancake blocks, then he was awesome. Nobody's saying, fuck, Jason, why didn't you catch a pass today?

[JJ Redick]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

Why didn't you score a touchdown, Jason?

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Guest Speaker]

We need screen assist, for sure. Like, can we capture how good Rudy Gobert is if we had screen assists and a box score? If Steph goes off for 42 and Draymond has seven assists, seven rebounds, seven.

[JJ Redick]

Points and seven screen assists.

[Guest Speaker]

And seven screen assists. Does that better capture how good Draymond Green is?

[JJ Redick]

Yes. Because his impact don't always show up in a box square. Like you're saying hockey assists. Yeah, guys, that pass, pass open decent shots for great shots.

[Guest Speaker]

Right. Or understand what the pass. What the next pass is gonna do.

[JJ Redick]

I can give you a prime example right now.

[Guest Speaker]

Let's hear it.

[JJ Redick]

Back to blitz and pick and rolls.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[JJ Redick]

There's certain teams in our league that we know will blitz a pick and roll, try to get the ball out of DLO's hands, try to get the ball out of Austin's hands. Cause they, you know, pretty damn good if you let them get a little, you know, get some space, get them, give them where they can see, vision, whatever. A lot of teams have been trying to blitz us lately. The best play for them to make, when you know that's happening with ad setting the screen is the throw ahead.

[Guest Speaker]

Pass to the corner or to the.

[JJ Redick]

Wing, depending on which. As soon as you come off and you have two guys on the ball, 80's diving, that means there's a two sided on the same side that's going to tag AD, which you just drew up.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I can draw it up again.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, draw it up again.

[Guest Speaker]

You want the throw, a head pass.

[JJ Redick]

To the slot, the throwhead pass to the slot.

[Guest Speaker]

Come in middle.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, come in middle. It is the easiest play to recognize. And now you put the onus on the guy in the slot to make the proper read. Nine times out of 10, it's gonna be the guy that's sitting right in front of him, right in the corner.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, it's interesting too, cause you talk about the hockey assist in this play. And so as AD rolls here, these two guys have now committed to the ball. Right. And the pass goes here.

[JJ Redick]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

Sometimes it's not AD that's gonna score either. Right. It's like he can catch and then he hit here. Or maybe it's a skip pass all the way over.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I think basketball in some ways, I don't want to simplify it because as Devin Booker said a couple weeks ago to me, there's certain people that are them ones. I was not one of them ones. Right. But there are certain people that have the ability, like Kevin Durant or like Devin Booker, or like Jaylen Brown to Kyrie Irving, Luka whoever, you know who I'm talking about. The guys that can score efficiently one on one. And as we've gotten into this like super analytical phase of the NBA, there are coaches who are reading time and score, they're reading the shot chart, the turnovers, and they're saying, I'm gonna manage this game. And as long as I'm up 7 to 10 points in this situation, I'm not going to blitz, I'm not gonna put two on the Ball. And I'm gonna live with whoever going 12 for 24 for 29 to 32 points. But you know what? I'm not gonna get in rotation, I'm not gonna put two on the ball. I'm not gonna give up offensive rebounding. And I think that's really interesting.

[JJ Redick]

It is. How far did I get A Hawks.

[Guest Speaker]

What's wild about that is they blitzed more than anybody in the league and.

[JJ Redick]

Then they decided not to blitz And Luka has 70.

[Guest Speaker]

I know. Anyways, my point is. My point is there are certain guys that can do it and you live with it. And there are certain plays and actions that cause a reaction and you get two on the ball. The whole thing with defense, at least to me right now, is can we stay out of rotation?

[JJ Redick]

Can you stay out of rotation? And what are you willing to give up is not what you're willing to stop. You can't stop the players in certain teams. And the coaching now is very super, super diversified and super tricky. And they're always trying to. They're just reading to see what you do. Okay, that's how they played it. Okay, we got a counter for that. There's a counter for that. So it's not what you willing to stop, it's what you're willing to give up. If we go into a game and say, hey, this team, they fucking shoot the three out of high clip. They shoot 45 threes a game, 50 threes a game. So let's take away, try to take away the threes and let's live with the mid range. Don't foul and put them on the free throw line. Cause we know that's the easiest bucket you can get. And let's try to take away the threes. But that's not switching when it comes to a great player. Because you know what happens when you switch and you play against a great player? You're going to end up in fucking rotations anyways.

[Guest Speaker]

Yep, 100%.

[JJ Redick]

It's not switching. It's building a defense that keeps everyone at home keeps the big on the big. The guard has to either navigate, am I going under, am I going over? Depending on who the point guard or the two guard is. And he has to work his ass off for that game and his minutes that he's guarding that player. And everyone has to just be ready on the backside. Obviously case of emergency, you know, guy fucking falls or, you know, something breaks down, the big is up too high and he let the roller get behind him. Shit changes, obviously, by the way, I.

[Guest Speaker]

I want to just show you that real quick. That's your second shot. She's almost.

[JJ Redick]

Holy shit.

[Guest Speaker]

Isn't that wild?

[JJ Redick]

There's nine guys inside the three pool.

[Guest Speaker]

There's nine guys within 12ft of each other. Yeah, it's wild. We'll make sure this ends up on the video.

[JJ Redick]

That's crazy.

[Guest Speaker]

You mentioned the Luca game against Atlanta. We actually had him right after and we talked about what. I think we're gonna do a play breakdown here. What I think is like the most unstoppable and ridiculous cheat code in the NBA. If you can time it right. This is you against the Milwaukee Bucks in 2020, in March of 2020.

[JJ Redick]

Oh, I already know what it is without even watching it.

[Guest Speaker]

What happens on this play?

[JJ Redick]

The fucking Gortos screen. The Gortos screen, The fucking Gortas screen is the most unstoppable. It's wild play. Like you said, if you can time it right, it can't be stopped. I scored a few times in that game. One I got an and one in the first half versus Brook in the second one I hostaged. You call it a hostage dribble.

[Guest Speaker]

I see.

[JJ Redick]

Put him in jib, put him in jail.

[Guest Speaker]

But some people call it a hostage dribble, you know, so you come over, they chase over the screen, you put them on your back, and then you just kind of hostage dribble.

[JJ Redick]

And now I'm waiting in that clip. As soon as I saw Javale Gore tied it, that's when I took off. Yeah, Luka does it. They teach it.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[JJ Redick]

J. Kidd and his staff, they teach that? Yeah, they teach it.

[Guest Speaker]

My favorite part about that clip, by the way. So Marcian Gortat was a teammate of mine in Orlando. When he was in Washington with John Wall, he started doing this. I actually asked him about this today on the flight here. I was like, hey, bro, I'm going to talk about the Gortat screen. I'll be like, where did you get it from? And he's like, ah, just reading angles, you know. Stan really helped me in understanding the game and I came up with it myself. Then he said he has three other screening angles that he hasn't shared with anybody. So I'm like, I got to see this shit. But anyways, Marcin Gortot would run this with John Wall. If you remember, a lot of teams would go under John. Exactly right. So if as they would set the pick lower and lower, they would keep switching the pick lower and lower or flipping the pick lower and lower. John would eventually get over the top. And the big right, John was treated as a non shooting threat. We gotta protect the rim against John Wall. The big would be so far back that Martian, instead of rolling to the basket, would just go run right into.

[JJ Redick]

The big and just run. And then, you know, he would either run straight into him with his back. With his back towards his off as a player or act like he's on a fake post up and then just turn around. Yeah, it's so amazing that Martian has a.

[Guest Speaker]

He has this like Martian gore Tyne.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah. You know you have like. You have like the Karl Malone area.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[JJ Redick]

You know you have like certain things that we have in our game. Iverson cut the Iverson cut. Iverson cut the Iverson cut. There's one more. There's a couple more.

[Guest Speaker]

My favorite though, part about that particular clip, if you really slow down and watch it, you had to have just said javale Gortat screen. He doesn't even look at you or.

[JJ Redick]

The ball at all.

[Guest Speaker]

He sets the pick. He kind of out of the corner of his eye sees that you have him in jail.

[JJ Redick]

Have him in jail.

[Guest Speaker]

And he runs directly to Brooke.

[JJ Redick]

Right to Brook. Yeah, right to Brook.

[Guest Speaker]

I see it now on drives, too. It's not just in pick and roll.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, Draymond.

[Guest Speaker]

Draymond does it all the time.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, Draymond did it on me the other night, but he actually grabbed my fucking arm. He wouldn't fucking let my arm go. He had me in jail and put the handcuffs on me.

[Guest Speaker]

It's a great.

[JJ Redick]

No, it's great. It's great.

[Guest Speaker]

So anyways, look for that.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, look for that.

[Guest Speaker]

Look for that. And again, it goes back to. You dunked the ball. You dunked the ball. But JaVale McGee is going to get no credit on that.

[JJ Redick]

That should be the assist. You're absolutely right.

[Guest Speaker]

100%. 100%.

[JJ Redick]

You're absolutely right. But that sacrifice.

[Guest Speaker]

Going back to spacing, I love just weaving in and out of this shit. Going back to spacing that way.

[JJ Redick]

I feel like a 911 Turbo S right now, just weaving out of traffic.

[Guest Speaker]

Not all spacing is created equal. And by that I mean you can play five out, right? You can play five out. You can keep the paint clear.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

But not every player, as you said earlier, by the way, which is important. Not everybody has to be a 40% shooter. You have to be a threat. From three, you have to be a threat.

[JJ Redick]

Draymond plays in spacing. Shawn Marion played in spacing. You know, there's certain guys that plays in spacing. But it's your IQ that creates this space. Draymond's biggest asset offensively is being able to know that guys are going to sag off him because they daring them to shoot. And Draymond's smart enough to say, you idiots, I'm not gonna shoot the ball. Y'all playing so far off me to. When I catch it in space, I'm gonna find one of my deadly two guys, Clay or Steph, and I'm gonna DHO to those guys and get a clean hit. And because you're so far off me, you're not gonna be able to contest. And then when you run up out of control, I know that my greatest asset is my pocket pass. Game four on three. Yeah, that's playing in space, right?

[Guest Speaker]

The over. This is like. This is the Duncan Robinson. This is the Kyle Korver. This is, of course, Ray Allen. You get to that dribble handoff, you're the big. Yeah, you've sagged off DeAndre Jordan. With me, you've sagged off of him. I've created the separation. DeAndre's coming to a dribble hand off me. Oh, shit. There's the overreaction. And with Stephen Clay, there's probably not a greater overreaction. Draymond gets behind.

[JJ Redick]

I mean, and when you have a guy like you saying you have those guys that could play in the pocket and understand it, bam, out of bayou, you know, we played them in the finals. He. When you have Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson and those guys flying off, there has to be some chain of reaction. Yeah, there has to be.

[Guest Speaker]

There's this. There's this concept. It's not a concept really, but my friend who coaches for the Timberwolves put up these lists of attributes for basketball athleticism. And look, I'm not gonna go through all the physical ones. You can guess them, you know, vertical plane, balance, coordination, agility, all that stuff. But the cognitive side of it, which I think we touched on quite a bit in episode one, but there's one in particular I wanna talk about today. So the cognitive side of it is pattern recognition, spatial awareness, which is court mapping, anticipation, cognitive load, mental bandwidth, essentially your processing speed. Right. So the court mapping part, I think, is really interesting. So there's a bunch of guys that do it, I think, at a higher level than anyone else. And the analogy I would use is if you were to get a new car, and let's say this new car, it was like 19. We'll say 2009, before Apple CarPlay, before Android Google Play. You remember you used to get a car and the map would have to download.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay. So there's some guys they. The map only gets 30% downloaded. There's some guys maybe it gets 60% downloaded. There's a lot of guys that I think are like 80 or 90% the.

[JJ Redick]

Map has been downloaded so that you.

[Guest Speaker]

Can actually very nice. Start your car and get most places you want to go. And then there's like a handful of guys. The map is 100% downloaded and they've mapped the whole court. Their pattern recognition is a 10 out of 10. Their anticipation is a 10 out of 10. And that to me is a game changer. We were talking about the not all spacing is creating equal. You remember in your game the other night against the Warriors, Steph's over in the corner. Gary Payton is in the left wing and Steph is pointing at him. Right. Ball's all the way on the right side, all the way in the right corner. Steph is pointing at him, pointing at Gary Payton. Cause his man is all the way in the middle of the paint. So he knows if you swing it.

[JJ Redick]

To Gary Payton, the dho.

[Guest Speaker]

Dho.

[JJ Redick]

And he came off, faked the three, resurfaced, shot it and won. Rui Hachimora talk shit to dlo.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, it's part of the reason I don't. Again, it's personnel based.

[JJ Redick]

I talked to my teammates today about that. About that, about that, about Steph Curry, about in the film session. We have film today and we watched clips of Golden State. We watched clips of the Hawks game that we just had our last two games. There was a clip where we gave up way too much space to Clay. We got caught looking at the ball in the air. The ball finds the ball in the post to one of the Golden State warriors. And for a split second we had one of our guys looking at the ball. And as soon as that happened, Steph set a rip on Clay and he gets a three. The next clip we show, we show. I had Steph in transition and Steph cuts back door and I'm body on body. I didn't fucking look at the ball the whole time. And I know that goes against every coach. Yeah, ball, you basket. See the ball. See the ball. The ball is the problem. The ball is not the problem with Steph Curry. He's the problem. He's the fucking problem. Steph is most dangerous when he doesn't have the ball, which is not. There's not many guys all time in our league. That's Most dangerous without the ball. I'm telling them, listen, guys, I've been in more than enough wars with those guys. More than enough. I understand it. So I get it. I get I come from a different point of view. Pov. But when Steph decides to cut inside the lane, don't relax. He's coming back up, right? Yeah, he's coming back up. But you have to have. That's reps and reps and reps and reps of actually guarding something that's uncomfortable. Guarding Steph is uncomfortable. And the problem with our guys in our league, they're not comfortable with being uncomfortable. And that's why Steph and Golden State will always be relevant, because they play an uncomfortable style of play.

[Guest Speaker]

Do you hate that?

[JJ Redick]

I hate it when you don't have the personnel to match it.

[Guest Speaker]

I just used the word hate.

[JJ Redick]

I hate it.

[Guest Speaker]

Going back to that Gary Payton play, though.

[JJ Redick]

I know exactly the play.

[Guest Speaker]

No, I know, but hold on. But this is. So there's an anomaly to this. Of course. I really hate the dunker spot.

[JJ Redick]

I'm not gonna make the same mistake as episode one.

[Guest Speaker]

So it's all good.

[JJ Redick]

No, no, we're.

[Guest Speaker]

I really hate the dunker spot. I do. I think there's a time and place for it. I think there's a time and place for it.

[JJ Redick]

Fuck with the spacing.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes, Obviously.

[JJ Redick]

Obviously. Obviously.

[Guest Speaker]

I like when I'm watching games or I'm watching film and I see no one in the paint. So think about it this way. If Aaron Gordon was always in the dunker spot and they go to their five out splits, they throw it to Jokic, they start running the back screen to a slip.

[JJ Redick]

He's gonna be in the way.

[Guest Speaker]

He's gonna be in the way. Right. There's a time and place.

[JJ Redick]

I like that. There's a time and place for the dunker spot.

[Guest Speaker]

Time and place.

[JJ Redick]

70, 30, 80, 20.

[Guest Speaker]

I would say 70, 30, 70, 30. But on that team, 75.

[JJ Redick]

25.

[Guest Speaker]

On that team, it's a different thing. Because of Jokic and the court mapping.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, the court mapping. Yeah, for sure.

[Guest Speaker]

There's a play from March 2nd that I love. Endgame. You know what they're running? Two man.

[JJ Redick]

Yep. Two man.

[Guest Speaker]

Jokic crosses the court on the right side. Jamal Murray's got the ball on the left side. They're going to go to that high picking roll of Murray to his right hand.

[JJ Redick]

Correct.

[Guest Speaker]

And Jokic, I think it was Peyton Watson.

[JJ Redick]

He's like, stay on that side.

[Guest Speaker]

No, no, he's like, go to the right Corner. Peyton Watson was in the left wing, goes to the right corner. They get to their two man. It eventually ends up with Jokic. Gordon's doing cat and mouse on the baseline, and he spins and it literally looked like a shot.

[JJ Redick]

He's by the shot and he does like this.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. And lob dunk, right.

[JJ Redick]

Lob dunk. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

That is court mapping. It is because he knew getting that guy over there. He knew getting that guy over there would make you have to make the tough decision. Do I help on his spin? Do I let him score? Do I stay home on Aaron Gordon?

[JJ Redick]

Yep.

[Guest Speaker]

And then it's the anticipation, the cognitive load, all that stuff.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah. I mean, I saw a stat on Jokic last year, and I don't know the exact number, but in the finals, in the finals versus Miami, he. He shot like 70% from the free throw line in, like catching the ball at the free throw line. Either.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[JJ Redick]

This. Or floaters when he catches in the pocket, like 74%. That's insane. So when he turns and he's going to this, you're thinking, okay, let me try to get a contest. Meanwhile, he has Aaron Superman Gordon flying in from the corner.

[Guest Speaker]

By the way, give credit to Aaron Gordon, because he's figured that out. Part of it out. The reason I don't normally like the dunker spot, though, is because I think what Gary Payton did and what Ben Simmons did, and to an extent in la, when we ran five out, we called it delay. When we ran delay, we would have Ben or Blake at the top and DJ in one of the slots. And then he's screening for off the ball, for Jamal, for me, for cp, whatever. It's just harder to guard to me.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah. Gordon unlocked. He unlocked everything for.

[Guest Speaker]

For 100%.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah. For.

[Guest Speaker]

This is, again, terrible.

[JJ Redick]

I like your. I like your courts as different courts, you know, depending on.

[Guest Speaker]

The more wine I've had, the worse these courts have got. All right, I'm going to put a dunker spot guy. That is the dunker spot guy.

[JJ Redick]

Okay. All right.

[Guest Speaker]

So you're an ISO on the left wing.

[JJ Redick]

Yep.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm very curious about this, and if you don't want to give away secrets, that's fine. Obviously, if you look at bucket, I'll troll. If you look at 1980s, 1990s. Right. And you had an ISO on the left wing. This is what you're looking at. Right. There's no two, nine.

[JJ Redick]

No, no, no. You can't move. You can't move.

[Guest Speaker]

Literally right there can't move. In today's NBA. This guy can move all the way.

[JJ Redick]

Over two nines, all the way strong.

[Guest Speaker]

But let's say he just floods all the way. Let's say he floods all the way. This guy moves inside.

[JJ Redick]

Yep.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay, so now you're looking at essentially defense, Defense, defense, defense.

[JJ Redick]

Plus the guy on the ball boxes and elbows.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. On the left wing.

[JJ Redick]

Yep. I hate it. I don't like it. I don't.

[Guest Speaker]

What is your. What is your sort of checklist here on this?

[JJ Redick]

Depends on what the clock is.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay.

[JJ Redick]

Obviously if I don't, if I have more time in a shot clock, then I'm going to rearrange that lineup. Meaning. I'm sorry, not lineup. Alignment.

[Guest Speaker]

Alignment. Yeah, yeah.

[JJ Redick]

I'm going to rearrange the alignment to make it better for not only me, but for the team. I don't like catching on the wing and sitting on the wing and allowing a Defender X5 to come over and tilt strong side. Cleanse itself and just stay there. X4, X3 or X2 get to sit inside the big on the other side. Now you got the boxes and elbows covered. If I have enough time, I'm gonna send one of my strong, one of my best shooter on the floor to the strong corner. Strong corner. So now if they want to tilt strong side, I create the three on two. I wanna create the three on two. It'd be very difficult.

[Guest Speaker]

So just to be clear on that, you wanna create the three on two. So by sending the top guy essentially to the strong side, your side, you wanna now get middle.

[JJ Redick]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

Create a two on the ball. Now you've got a three and a.

[JJ Redick]

Half that big wants to stay on the strong side that I was isoing on. I got too much room to work with on that side for my teammates. And it's not about. For me, it's about creating the advantage on the other side. There's not much advantage when I'm sitting on the wing and I have four guys staring at me.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[JJ Redick]

If it's short clock, obviously my job is to tell the big. That's being, you know, in the pain in the dunker. You gotta duck in, get to the middle of the rim to make him guard you. So when I do swing, we do have an advantage on the other side. But I don't like that alignment. I'm more of a. I'm more of a 3:1 guy when I have the ball. I like my best shooter in a strong corner either if I'm on the left wing or the right wing. And I like a three line assembled on the other side.

[Guest Speaker]

You gotta get that flood guy the fuck out of there.

[JJ Redick]

Basically the fuck out of there. And I like a guy down in the. I know you don't like the dunker, but I like him down and then guy in the corner, guy on the slot. But no, no, no.

[Guest Speaker]

Hold on, hold on. I will say this. On a left wing or right wing, ISO or postup, I got no problem with the dunker.

[JJ Redick]

It's good.

[Guest Speaker]

There's cuz. Cuz if you're. If you're. If no one's at the basket in that spot, if you're the only guy on the side of the court and everybody's around the three point line, then everybody can help.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, everybody can.

[Guest Speaker]

There's no space to put some pressure on the rim with the dunker.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, for sure.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm talking about balls up top, either in the right high quadrant. Left high quadrant, or.

[JJ Redick]

It's pretty bad spacing there.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, that's all I'm saying.

[JJ Redick]

I agree. It's pretty bad spacing. I agree.

[Guest Speaker]

All right, we did the Gore top play. I want to go through two more plays. And we're going to. We're going to. We'll add these to whatever episode we decide we want to add them to. All right? So the one specific play I want to go through with you is the block in game seven.

[JJ Redick]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Of 2016.

[JJ Redick]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Take me through what proceeded on the offensive end to your mindset in that chase down.

[JJ Redick]

If. If my mind is serving me right, both teams can score. 3, 3, 4. 3 minutes. 3, 4 minutes of game. Of actually game time. When you're in the game, it actually feels like it's fucking 25, 30 minutes. I think it was 89. 89 at the time, if I'm not mistaken. And at that point in time, I felt like Kyrie could get us the best shot. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe Kyrie drove, got a great look, shot up a floater. And I'm sitting in the corner by their bench on the opposite of Kyrie. I'm sitting in the corner by their bench. In my head, I said, if I'm correct with the trajectory of the ball, what I'm seeing, I got to get my ass back because Iggy's going to be on a sprint, Steph's going to be on the sprint, and we're outnumbered because I'm below the free throw line, Tristan's below the free throw line. Kyrie's shooting the ball. He's below the free throw line. And all I Can see is. All I see is. Is Swish Junior. I said, I got to get back so soon as the ball. When the ball is missed. I didn't. I didn't. If I was to follow my coach's orders or. Coach's orders. You're supposed to get back on the race.

[Guest Speaker]

On the release.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, on the release. Get back on the release. I did not get back on the release. I did not get. I didn't start to actually get back until I actually saw it was a miss. But in my mind, I could see the ball feeling like it was gonna be a little long. I just hauled ass, man. I just hauled ass. And when I'm running, I think if I'm not mistaken, I don't know who it was that I kind of, like, kind of run around. I don't know who it was. I don't know if it was a Golden State player or one of our guys. I kind of had to run around or move around. Cause I was in the left corner and Iggy Sider on the right side. But when I run it all, I'm telling myself, I'm like, swish, do not foul him. So you can ask any of my teammates, throughout the course of my career or throughout the course of that season, anytime that you see me trailing the play, all I need is a little adjustment from the officer player, and I promise you, I'll track it down. Do not fucking foul. Do not fucking foul. I've told the guys all year, if you see me hauling ass, just make him. Instead of just going in for a layup, make him change it a little bit. Just a little bit. And Switch gets a lot of shit today because of the blunder he had the following year or two years later, or whenever the fuck it was of not understanding the time of school, whatever the case may be. He executed that shit to perfection. He made Iggy change his shot just a little bit. And that's all I asked.

[Guest Speaker]

It's interesting because I went up with.

[JJ Redick]

Both hands, too, by the way. I was ready.

[Guest Speaker]

No, you hit the. You hit the rim with your left arm.

[JJ Redick]

I was ready for the reverse or the strong side. And I was like, if these fucking refs call goal 10, I might get kicked out of this most important game of my life. Because it was still over two minutes. And you couldn't review back then unless it was under two minutes. Cause I knew I had got it clean. That's all I was saying to myself. I said, I'm getting this shit.

[Guest Speaker]

So many of your chase downs by the Way is you do your little run, you know? I'm just saying, bro, I'm not an impressionist. You do your little run and then it's like the quick burst. You know what I mean? That was different, though.

[JJ Redick]

That was.

[Guest Speaker]

That was like. Once you said, okay, I gotta go get this, I was like, yeah, I've got a little window to get there. It was different.

[JJ Redick]

Like the last leg of the fucking 4x1 relay with, like, fucking the same boat. I was like, I gotta fucking go.

[Guest Speaker]

All right, I got one more play for you. Let me pull it up real quick.

[JJ Redick]

We could literally do this shit all day, bro. You're not on the WI fi here. They didn't give you the WI Fi.

[Guest Speaker]

I just hit play on that.

[JJ Redick]

I already know what the fuck this play is, you motherfucker. By the way. By the way, you fucking up.

[Guest Speaker]

What happened here? What happened here?

[JJ Redick]

What happened here is that I didn't know that your ass could go stop and go like this. What the fuck? I didn't know that you had that in your arsenal.

[Guest Speaker]

The little.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, the little rap. Yeah, the little hesi rap. Yeah, the hesi rap. You fucking turned me all the way around.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm serious when I say this.

[JJ Redick]

I love the fact that you missed it. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Guest Speaker]

If I had made that shot. If I had made that shot, I would have that highlight pinned on every social media account at the top of the.

[JJ Redick]

This is 94.94 in overtime. It's overtime.

[Guest Speaker]

I know.

[JJ Redick]

How did you.

[Guest Speaker]

Won, like104.98. We won that game.

[JJ Redick]

Y'all won that game.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[JJ Redick]

I turned all the way around.

[Guest Speaker]

That was. I think that was a lockout year. Yeah. Shane was on the team.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, Shane was on the team.

[Guest Speaker]

Shane was on the team because he guarded me that game. He actually switched. He was on Ryan Anderson. He switched right before.

[JJ Redick]

Yeah, we got a fucking foul after that.

[Guest Speaker]

He didn't have made that shot, man. It's not a highlight. It's not a highlight.

[JJ Redick]

It's not a highlight.

[Guest Speaker]

It should not be on YouTube. Should not be on YouTube as a whole.

[JJ Redick]

You know why it's on YouTube? Because it was against fucking me. Everything is on YouTube. If it's done against me, no matter if it's a highlight or not, everything.

[Guest Speaker]

I'll take half of it. I'll take, like a half credit.

[JJ Redick]

You do know how that I create super teams, though, right?

[Guest Speaker]

Cheers, man. This is good.

[JJ Redick]

I'm glad I didn't dive into that. So good.

[Guest Speaker]

That was great.

[JJ Redick]

All right.

[Guest Speaker]

We good?

[JJ Redick]

He say, okay, I get it. This motherfucker. Oh, this motherfucker. Nice. He points at me. This motherfucker. He gonna get his. We can't stop him. This motherfucker. Okay. He hit his 15 foot shots and shit. Okay, all right, cool. But this motherfucker. This motherfucker ain't. How does he have 18 points? Oh, my God. That is so funny, dog.

[Guest Speaker]

Hey, guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching Mind the Game podcast. If you like it, please hit that subscribe button. Thank you.

[JJ Redick]

It.